Are coaches/mentors really even necessary?

94 replies
I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
#coaches or mentors
  • Profile picture of the author NoviIM
    It depends.. if you're an intuitive person and you pick up on information without any issues, then you probably can learn and do everything on your own.
    If you are the type of person that needs direction and don't easily comprehend the material, and unsure of exactly where to go, what to do and how to do it, then you might need someone to guide you.
    But be careful, Alot of these so called Mentors are ready to take your money and keep pumping money out of you... They don't understand the so called "Social Responsibility" when it comes to this business. It's all about the mighty dollar for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Not really necessary but I guess you get a better understanding of football from Cristiano Ronaldo, then the Queen Of Engalnd.

    Right?

    :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    I disagree. Some people don't learn by just having the information in front of them. They need someone who can steer them in certain directions, reword things that don't make sense, and provide constant feedback on their progress. Being independent is great and all; but a lot of people don't fit into that mold.

    If they get the education they needed, the money is entirely worth it though.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    You said it yourself learn through trial and error or through someone else's trial and error. I would rather spend $1,000 to save 6 months of sprinting the wrong direction then to possibly never figure out which direction I should apply myself to.

    Many marketers figure out how to create success on their own but usually spend several months to years learning from trial and error. There is a reason why 95-98% of marketers fail to create substantial income online. The reason is most people don't have a clue of what they need to do short term or long term.

    Paying for coaching was the best money that I have invested online and I have spent a decent amount of money learning through trial and error. Paying for coaching probably saved me a year or two of having to figure out which direction to focus all my energy towards.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lilypuff
      I think that depends on what your priorities are. Yes most information is free, but there's a lot of crap that you step in on the way to good quality information. I look at a good mentor as a way to speed through the learning process. If time is money, wouldn't that be worth the cost?
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Anybody can learn through trial and error, just that it takes
    longer by that route.

    A coach is suppose to help you get over the bumps you'll
    not normally see on your own. Help you through your
    blind spots.

    In a way this forum is a coach because people ask questions
    and answers are given--several sometimes contradictory ones--
    and you are left with the task of deciphering the husk from
    the kernel (maybe though trial and error?).

    Of course all coaches are not created equal. Some people
    coach for the money and others do for the love of teaching
    and helping people. It's not hard to tell the difference.

    In the final analysis you'll find that there are two currencies
    in this business--time a money, and you'll end up paying
    one whether you like it or not.

    The money you spend on a coach should shorten your time
    compared to learning on your own.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Bjarne Viken
    Hi Cashtree

    I think you raise a very good question. Personally I have spend lots of money on mentors and courses, and I must say that what I got from it is radically different than what I actually purchased.

    A common problem with mentor programs is that mentors usually work out some sort of formula for success based on what they did. This is based on the assumption that since it worked for them, it has to work for everyone else. There are several reasons why this is not the case.

    The biggest one if that the web is constantly changing, so what worked for them might not work now. Secondly, and this is a big one, successful mentors turn their mentoring services into a business in itself, and that often outperform the business they initially started with. But they are still stuck with telling "their story" and as the world changes they can't leave it without leaving their business model. So they are stuck with content that no longer is relevant. Also there is a tendency among some to create content that their followers want, but that they really should not ask for. For instance, in one program I followed they teached copywriting, and how to do your own adwords campaign which is useful to know, but not a good way to spend your time strategically.

    When I started doing my own things I had the mentoring programs as my educational background, but after a while I realized that asking questions to freelancers applying to do the same type of jobs actually was a better education than listening to many mentors. In the process of all this I have learned to trust more my own instinct and judgement rather than what I am being told my mentors. That being said, I still do huge mistakes against better advice. But I am comfortable with that. I wonder if many mentoring programs also are at fault for not developing that comfort in their clients by over-mentoring and pulling over a system to follow rather than listen to their needs.

    That being said I have three business degrees which much of my common sense is based on.

    If I was to choose mentors today I would be much more skeptic and I would try to make that person a friend rather than someone standing above me. Not because I think I know everything, I clearly don't, but because I trust myself enough to use Google when I am stuck and take criticisms from the people I hire and the ones that love me outside of the web to improve both personally and professionally.

    Also, most mentors give away their best stuff for free knowing that it works in getting the people in. What you want from them is their business model, then you just find better ways of following their steps.
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  • Profile picture of the author marcuslim
    Well good mentors will force you to actually take action. It's about accountability. When you know you have to be accountable, you will take the action that is expected of you.
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    • Profile picture of the author absoluteallen
      I have lived my life through coaches and mentors. My first mentor was my football coach. He said, never give up on yourself... you have potential.

      Second was my wrestling coach. He told me what I needed to work on to go state.

      Third was my kung-fu instructor. He told me what forms I needed to practice to win tournaments.

      I have had friends and acquaintances that have given me more useful advice than I could find in any course on the market.

      If the mentor is truthful in willing to help, not some money grubbing lunatic... they could take you in the right direction.

      Problem is you have to watch because it seems everyone is a mentor nowadays and they usually outsource their mentoring to someone else who could give a damn about your success.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Hooper
    It's not always always about learning "how to" stuff.

    I've had an online business since 1995 and am pretty established. Every week, I pay a guy to kick my ass, help me stretch, and hold me accountable.

    If you can find the right person, mentoring/coaching is priceless.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgant
    Be careful who you hire. I hired a coach promising 1 on 1 service. I received an email setting out the system. He answered a few emails. Then nothing. I've emailed him several times with no response. $700 wasted. Started off good, but it was a waste of money just when I needed assistance on the final leg of his approach.

    Get it in writing the parameters of the service. I understand a coaching fee isn't years of personal service, but it should be more than one email report followed up with one-word answers to questions.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Sneen
      Hey, jgant...

      Sorry about your experience. That has got to sting.
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      David Sneen
      It's what you do when no one is watching
      that determines what you will be able to
      do when everyone is watching.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Sneen
    A good mentor could be worth his/her weight in gold to you.

    That being said, if you don't have one, can't afford one; you just have to work harder here. Every bit of information is available to you right here. You just have to work harder to find it, and dig to get it. You also need to learn whom to trust, and who is just b.s.ing you.
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    David Sneen
    It's what you do when no one is watching
    that determines what you will be able to
    do when everyone is watching.
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  • Profile picture of the author TVOnline
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
    Here is why, if you are fortunate enough to get yourself a good coach that knows his stuff. He will save you years in learning time. The reason is their is a huge amount of useless information as well as good, and you can waist a lot of time and money in doing the trial and error thing. The biggest thing to remember is your time is valuable lost time is lost money.
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  • Profile picture of the author tristatemedia
    i have used coaches. they actually organize everything you see. that was a big benefit. another important aspect: the biggest factor. you get so many opinios on the forum about a certain subject. but, with a coach that is actually doing will tell exactly what is working. kind of taking some of the guess work out this maze of info that changes every other day.
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  • Profile picture of the author ishuvonet
    Having a good coach or mentor can help you to take your knowledge to the next level.So spending money behind a good coach is okay and I don't see it as a waste of money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
    Banned
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
    Well, if marketing seems to be such a "straight forward way", why is it then that most people are not making any money?

    The best thing you can do in order to become successful is to work with people who are doing great at what you want to be great at.

    People who are struggling try everything by themselves, and their ego prevents them from using coaches.

    Using coaches is not only smart in terms of increasing your ROI, it is vital for continues business growth.

    The people who grow the furthest are the ones who learn the most.
    People who struggle do that because of a lack of skills and self-esteem.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashtree
      Originally Posted by GeraldGigerl View Post

      Well, if marketing seems to be such a "straight forward way", why is it then that most people are not making any money?

      The best thing you can do in order to become successful is to work with people who are doing great at what you want to be great at.

      People who are struggling try everything by themselves, and their ego prevents them from using coaches.

      Using coaches is not only smart in terms of increasing your ROI, it is vital for continues business growth.

      The people who grow the furthest are the ones who learn the most.
      People who struggle do that because of a lack of skills and self-esteem.
      My guess is hesitation, and lack of confidence, not to mention lack of effort, or maybe lack of time. Where as those who've done it and succeeded have complete confidence in their methods, and can just repeat their steps plan from before. I still don't think that info is worth 10k, as others have said, it's all about you as an individual when it comes to marketing anyway. So you're going to have to find what you're comfortable with, what works for you etc...but then again what do I know. Thanks for the great answers gentlemen, always appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
        Banned
        Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

        My guess is hesitation, and lack of confidence, not to mention lack of effort, or maybe lack of time. Where as those who've done it and succeeded have complete confidence in their methods, and can just repeat their steps plan from before. I still don't think that info is worth 10k, as others have said, it's all about you as an individual when it comes to marketing anyway. So you're going to have to find what you're comfortable with, what works for you etc...but then again what do I know. Thanks for the great answers gentlemen, always appreciated.
        Well, why do you think it is that some people make $25,000 a month, while others are 3 years into online marketing and barely make $200 a month?

        If you lack essential attitudes, then you need to get some serious training.

        The best of the best take coaches, even when they are highly successful coaches themselves.

        You can't really save time in business, but you can spend it. You can always make more money, but not more time.

        If you invest 4 months into implementing a marketing strategy unsuccessfully, you have lost 4 productive months. If you invest targeted, goal oriented, and skilled 4 months into implementing a marketing strategy, odds are that you will succeed a lot faster, with less effort, and higher ROI.
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  • Profile picture of the author Usmile
    if you think you are capable of doing things by your own, I suggest you not to get a mentor you not just save your money but also you are giving yourself a chance to learn
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  • The was majority of people feel it's a waste of money and I'm not sure what a small minority can say to change that, I just stooped trying. When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
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  • Profile picture of the author Des Lau
    My #1 advice would be getting personalized coaching.
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  • Profile picture of the author S4Ne
    In my own personal opinion, I think there's nothing like learning on your own. I feel that I can remember things a lot better if I attempt to do them myself. Also, by learning on your own, you tend to remember the mistakes more.

    On the other hand, a coach will save you from a lot of mistakes (if not, all of them).

    In the end, it's simply your learning style.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily B
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
    In my college class today, I overheard a girl say that this was her second time taking that particular class. She had taken it online originally but couldn't make sense of it. She decided to drop the class and take it the next quarter in the classroom instead.

    The thing is that the online class and the in-school class both use the same materials, assignments, tests, etc. They both even turn the homework in online. The only difference is that, in the school building, you have someone explaining things to you and taking the time to make sure you understand.

    If you can learn IM by yourself through online materials, then great. But not everyone can, and I don't believe it has anything to do with a lack of effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author iuditg
    Mentors are not necessary, I would rather advise you to pick up few PDF related to the niche you wanna get into. If you google around, you would find tons of resources. Just reading all kinds of article alone would fetch you tremendous knowledge.

    I know couple of people who are charging around $10k to teach you about Social Media stuffs. When I first heard about that, my first instant reaction was, WTF, $10k to learn social media marketing ? Their is nothing which you can't learn by yourself. The only thing that is really needed is passion.

    In short, I would suggest you 2 things, either google the information you are looking for or pick up some PDF related to your niches. But never go after 1 on 1 coaching.
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    I never got a mentor myself, but I've been a mentor to some people.

    The people I've mentored were able to accomplish in 2 weeks what it took 2 years for me to do.

    So yeah, getting a proper coach can be beneficial.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anton Nadilo
    EVERY successful internet marketer has had a mentor/coach.
    EVERY top sports person or athlete has had a mentor/coach.
    EVERY property millionaire has had a mentor/coach.
    EVERY successful business person has had a mentor/coach.....enough said.

    Go it alone and your chances of success a near zero..sure you may be one of the majoirty that struggle for years and dont realise they have spent THOUSANDS on useless WSO's and info products to finally "crack the success code" and become successful online.

    I have personally mentored people in the offline world and showed them how to create tens of thousands of dollars in a day...all without fail tell me they NEVER would have been able to achieve what they have without a mentor.

    Whatever you decide my friend I respect your decision but all I can say is after spending the past 15 years studying super successful people in all industries and all niches ONE of the most common elements to their success was hiring a mentor(s) to help them accelrated the learning curve, leverage the expereince and wisdom of someone more successful than them and to AVOID trial and error...because this is a VERY costly and time consuming approach.

    Hope this helps

    Stay Strong and Propser

    Cheers

    Anton
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    • Originally Posted by Anton Nadilo View Post

      EVERY successful internet marketer has had a mentor/coach.

      Go it alone and your chances of success a near zero..
      I'm the breathing example that your statement is downright wrong.

      You dont need a *mentor*. The information is out there, freely available to anyone. You just need to be responsible to take proper account, and to apply business smart and/or common sense to your IM endeavors. That's all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Anton Nadilo
        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

        I'm the breathing example that your statement is downright wrong.

        You dont need a *mentor*. The information is out there, freely available to anyone. You just need to be responsible to take proper account, and to apply business smart and/or common sense to your IM endeavors. That's all.
        I said "near zero".

        It appears you have been one on the lucky few that have acheived success in IM going it alone. I like you have also beleive that is entirely possible with a **** load of hard work, persistence, a LOT of trial and error, BUCKETLOADS of time and more than a little money anyone can succeed.

        The orginally question was "are they even necessary?" and I suppose the real answer to that depends on asking and following on question...

        How quickly do you want to succeed?

        With the RIGHT (and proven) mentor there is absolutely no way YOU or anyone else could outstrip the rate of success of a mentored student with the right attutude, mindset and desire would acheive - if you were both starting from the same position/experience level etc. The leverage and speed you gain from having a mentor and coach cannot be underestimated and those that have experienced powerful and results focused mentoring.coachign will understand what I mean.

        Oh Anonymous Affiliate...I have a question for you. Have you ever purchased a book, WSO or info product to assist you with your IM journey??

        Cheers

        Anton
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        • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
          If you are the type of person that learns by reading, watching videos, or however, then you may do okay without a coach or mentor, but it may take you longer. If you do not have the money to pay someone then that is fine. On the other hand, some people will never learn anything on their own and just need someone to help them along and there is nothing wrong with that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Dunstan
      Originally Posted by Anton Nadilo View Post

      EVERY successful internet marketer has had a mentor/coach.
      EVERY top sports person or athlete has had a mentor/coach.
      EVERY property millionaire has had a mentor/coach.
      EVERY successful business person has had a mentor/coach.....enough said.

      Go it alone and your chances of success a near zero..sure you may be one of the majoirty that struggle for years and dont realise they have spent THOUSANDS on useless WSO's and info products to finally "crack the success code" and become successful online.

      Anton
      I couldn't agree more with this. Although intuitive people can learn a lot by themselves and by trial and error - it takes a mentor or coach to really kick you over that final hill. Saving money to give to a decent coach is well worth it. WSOs, push button promises, link building packages and plugins all add up! However - find a decent coach! Some will call it coaching but actually just get you into a membership site with a one size fits all. You really need somebody who will look a twhat you are doing and give you specially tailored advice on what to do next. Only then will you be able to get the true support you need. The top golfers or tennis players did not get where they are by reading books or watching videos of 'mentors'. They actually spoke to them and had them examine thier game and give tailored advice.

      In my opinion - Alex Jeffries is top notch, and so is Sterling Valentine. Both give you personalised advice if you need it. However - it doesn't come cheaply! You will make the necessary progress quickly though so it is a good investment.

      Paul Dunstan
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
    They aren't necessary and many people have succeeded without a mentor, though they are the exception and not the rule.

    From my own experience, I have shaved off YEARS off the learning curve by having mentors and coaches. And there are so many out there, each with their own styles and core competencies, that you can find one that will suit your needs and most likely your budget.

    So to your answer your question, they aren't necessary, but if you invest the time to find and connect with the right one, they can save you a lot of time and make you a lot more money sooner than you would have on your own.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author WriterWahm
    I guess it really depends on you. How much are you earning now? Are you content where you are do you want to move forward?

    I desperately wanted to move forward but kept doing more of what I was doing until this lovely lady came around and changed my life. I did some work for her and she decided to mentor me. I did not pay a dime. In less than a month, I watched my income skyrocket.

    Do you need a mentor? Only you can answer that question.
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  • Profile picture of the author simonjwarner
    A good coach/mentor is worth there waiting gold.

    My best investment is the mastermind group I am in.

    Any kind of accountability in your Internet marketing you have the better
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Oh my... Where to even begin...

      I've already posted here several times that I'm currently in a high-level coaching program with my mentor. And I'm getting HUGE value out of it. There's NO QUESTION it's worth every penny I've paid.

      That said, I'd say it depends... It depends on what you're trying to do, your skill level, your knowledge level, your work ethic (self discipline), capacity to learn on your own, current financial state, etc.

      I've heard highly successful people say they'll never be without a coach/mentor.

      The thing is, you can learn from a coach/mentor just through their blog posts, teleseminars/webinars (free or paid), books, etc. Not just their high-level coaching programs. You can learn a LOT through these methods, even without paying a dime.

      If you're strapped for cash, learn all you can from their free info, like their blog and free teleseminars and webinars. When you have some cash, then buy their homestudy course or sign up for their high-level coaching.

      The biggest value you get in a coaching program isn't strictly in the how-to info. You can get that from their teleseminars or homestudy programs, usually for a lot less than their coaching.

      The value in the coaching is accountability, the ability to get your individual questions answered, and feedback on your ideas, business, marketing campaigns, websites, etc. There's a book titled something like "If the how to's were enough, we'd all be rich and happy." (Or something like that.) Very true.

      The how-to's are often NOT enough. Aside from the practical help coaching offers, a good coach addresses the mindsets/emotions we have, which play a HUGE role in our success. (For example, we all probably deal with fear at some level when trying to start a business. Fear of failure. Fear of what others will say or think. Etc.)

      You'll also often get introductions to other high-level players who would never give you the time of day otherwise. Your coach might even joint venture with you, which is PRICELESS. I've gotten experts to come in and provide their expertise for FREE just because we have a mutual acquaintance (my mentor).

      Those are things that the how-to courses don't generally address.

      Coaches and mastermind buddies also see our blind spots.

      I was in a mastermind meeting in Feb. and my mastermind gal pals told me my business name was all wrong and my mentor told me my website isn't good enough and needs to be completely redone.

      I felt shredded. My business name??!! My website??!! I've already invested a lot of money in both. And like most entrepreneurs, my business is my baby, so it's an emotional investment too and the criticism stung a little bit. Changing my business name means I have to change a LOT of things, including getting my book edited because it had the name and URL plastered all over it.

      Changing my name and redesigning my website is costing me over $3K (so far). (After that, I'm not sure I want any more advice! :p)

      But they were right. The new name is much better. And I'm hoping I've finally found a good website designer. (I've had nothing but bad luck with web designers.) We'll see. She starts working on my site next week and I should have a completely new site design by May 1.

      But those were blind spots I wasn't seeing on my own. In the short term, it's painful, both emotionally and financially. But if it makes my business better, then that's a very good thing. And that's not something a how-to course or little e-book will give me.

      I see a lot of people that could use some honest feedback. But you have to be smart enough to ask for it and then act on it, even if it stings a little when you first hear it.

      Michelle
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  • Profile picture of the author dvega
    i'm looking for a mentor. Interesting thread
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      The devil is in the details. Successful operation depends on the details, and they are many. If your coach can and want to give you all the details of operating the specific business model, then it's a good coach, and you need him/her. But if you are only getting general advices and directions, you don't need such coach.

      Every business consists of what you see on the surface, and what you don't see and cannot read about anywhere for free. You may need a coach for the invisible part, which is usually most important to know.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicelife
    IMHO it depends both on your personality and the skills of your coach, some people are more receptive to coaching while others like to think 100% for themselves.

    I end up in the latter group of people mentioned so for me it's mostly a waste of time.

    The danger with coaching is that you might end up listening to someone that really doesn't know what he/she is talking about but can make it sound good. This can be very dangerous in my opinion and misleading.

    So, make sure you pick a good coach.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    When you see really successful people saying how much coaches helped them, you know it's something you should look at for yourself.

    I've seen millionaires saying how they still employ a coach to keep them motivated and on task, etc.

    So, yeah, if think having a coach is not necessary because you can figure everything out for yourself for free, I'm afraid you don't "get it."

    However, that doesn't mean some don't get it done on their own and it doesn't mean everyone who calls themselves a coach will do you any good.

    If you're doing great without a coach, great for you.

    But if you are going to get a coach, make sure it's the right one and not someone out to scam you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    There's not a one-size-fits all answer to these things.

    Some people CAN/DO make it on their own.

    In fact, some people are way more creative and resourceful than many people who are offering coaching and can achieve a LOT more than if they had someone else directing them.

    However, many people are not struggling because they don't know what they could do - they're struggling because they don't have a solid plan or don't take action on that plan.

    The reasons people don't take the required actions are multiple - the same as the reason many people are fat - not because they don't know that eating less (and better) and exercising more is "all it takes" but they just can't get/stay motivated to take the actions, they have mental blocks or sabotage their own efforts due to emotional issues - etc. etc.

    So - to bring this back to the OPs point - The reason many people pay for coaching is NOT because they can't find the information about what to do - but because on their own they are not able to effectively action their knowledge.

    For some people the accountability of a coach is enough for them to change their patterns, for others it's the ability to bounce ideas of someone or to have someone ask you the right questions so that you get your own best answers.

    The problem and solution are not as simple as many people seem to think.

    Most people would benefit from some form of coaching, even if it's just to ensure they have a good work/life balance or have a special person to confide in and share their frustrations with so that they can take positive action for whatever their goals are.

    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author prasanth5
    I feel that the coaches are necessary in the beginning phases of Internet marketing. They would do well to instill some sort of confidence in the minds of the young online marketers that struggle to know where to make a beginning.
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  • Profile picture of the author loi77
    Before I had a coach, I spent more 6 months going around in circle and getting nowhere. I wasted so much time, effort, and energy for absolutely nothing. I even hired a VA to help me for 3 months.

    I now have a coach and I believe it is the turning point of my IM business. It has made such a difference. Rather then wasting time and money to learn form my own mistake, I would rather pay a coach to learn from his mistake so I can fast track my progress.

    Get a coach! It is well worth it.

    My coach is William Souza from Brazil. No, he didn't pay me to say this. I wish he did....

    All the best,
    David Loi
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  • Profile picture of the author John Racine
    I have "done it" in the past both without a Coach/Mentor and with a Coach/Mentor and I have achieved way more success when I had a coach.

    I think about Tiger Woods, who had the same coach for years when he was on top of his game. It is debatable if his personal affected his performance, or losing his long term coach did. But either way, the guy who had been Tiger's coach/mentor was gone and Tiger stopped winning tournaments.

    It becomes worth the investment to have someone steer you away from the mistakes and spending money you don't need to spend. In my mind, I would rather pay the coach to help me reach my goals then to figure it out on my own which will take precious time and most likely cost me many times more than the coached fee.

    My 2 cents anyways.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author cashtree
      Originally Posted by John Racine View Post

      I have "done it" in the past both without a Coach/Mentor and with a Coach/Mentor and I have achieved way more success when I had a coach.

      I think about Tiger Woods, who had the same coach for years when he was on top of his game. It is debatable if his personal affected his performance, or losing his long term coach did. But either way, the guy who had been Tiger's coach/mentor was gone and Tiger stopped winning tournaments.

      It becomes worth the investment to have someone steer you away from the mistakes and spending money you don't need to spend. In my mind, I would rather pay the coach to help me reach my goals then to figure it out on my own which will take precious time and most likely cost me many times more than the coached fee.

      My 2 cents anyways.

      John
      Tiger actually just won a tournament, but you're right he hasn't won for awhile, may have something to do with losing his coach. His coach went to train some other golfer and that guy ended up winning something big. So I guess mentors can be useful of course, I suppose I just don't see it with marketing, not thousands worth anyway. I mean what are they really going to tell you, you need backlinks to rank a site, content etc...same thing all you guys talk about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
    People work differently. One person may be able to pick up things fast on their own while another might need more guidance. I do agree that I can't see putting out thousands of dollars in order to have guidance though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Muhsin Aziz
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
    I believe that having a coach/mentor is important if you want to increase your chances of success.

    But what's more important is that you need to stick closely to just 1 mentor.

    Based on my experience in finding a mentor, following more than 1 mentor will only lead you to becoming even more confused.

    Because sometimes, their methods or tactics might conflict each other.

    And you will become lost and unsure as to which methods may work. Maybe both methods they teach work but you will just be torn apart and running around in circles confused.

    So my advise is to just pick 1 mentor you like and trust and stick to him/her teachings. Whatever that you learn, implement it & test it out. It's the only way to find out if what you are learning really works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Franklin
    Great thread!

    I don't think they're necessary...I know, it sounds funny coming from someone who coaches!

    HOWEVER....it can accelerate your progress IMMENSELY if you're the type of person who is not a self-starter (to take key actions) or self-motivated (to TWEAK those key actions when your results don't meet your expectations).
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  • Profile picture of the author Ricochet
    Disagree.. if someone has been successful before you, then learn from them.. No need to go solo and walk the wrong path if someone can show you the right path..

    Sure you need something to sell and someone who will buy it..
    BUT.. If it were that easy.. Everyone would be doing it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Joseph
    In my experience it can really depend on the individual person. Some of us are at certain point in our lives where we feel 'stuck or overwhelmed' -- and then others feel as if we are just 'on a roll'. Either way, we all need direction, and a step-by-step, proven method that works.

    How we choose to attain it is up to our particular situation and mind-set at that time.
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  • Profile picture of the author gasman
    They are in no way a needed. Some people spend a ton of money like you said on them and sometimes it's worth it but most the time it's not. You can just as easlily find the information you need for free on places like this forum. I think it was Jim Rohn who said "A formal education will make you a living, self education will make you a fortune."
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    • Profile picture of the author Anton Nadilo
      Originally Posted by gasman View Post

      They are in no way a needed. Some people spend a ton of money like you said on them and sometimes it's worth it but most the time it's not. You can just as easlily find the information you need for free on places like this forum. I think it was Jim Rohn who said "A formal education will make you a living, self education will make you a fortune."
      His quote is referring to traditional education such as college or university degrees.

      I know Jim Rohn is a AVID advocate of the leverage of mentoring.

      Cheers

      Anton
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  • Profile picture of the author tritolito
    They are necessary when you first start out there always needs to be someone that motivates you and gives you the right ideas that you can build on.
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  • Profile picture of the author MatthewNeer
    Everyone needs a coach.

    Every top athlete and successful businessman has a coach and/or mentor.

    The main reason for this is because no matter how good you are, there is always someone doing something that you're doing, better than you.

    It might be your defense, it might be your kickflip back tailslides, or the upsells in your sales funnel online.

    Coaches give you new inspiration and most importantly hold you accountable!
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Roarke
    Of course you could do it yourself, do it for free, or do it by trial-and-error.

    A good mentor will help you do all of those things better, faster and easier.

    I've long held the belief - The only people who can really benefit from a mentor/coach are the people who are willing to do it on their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    You need many mentors. It's good to learn the basics with a mentor, but you have to also learn many things by yourself. A combination of both is necessary. Only you know how your business must be, your skills, what you really want to do... you have to look for ways to create your business the way you want, and at the same time, get adapted to the way the internet works. This flexibility is not something that one or two mentors can give you.

    Even though everyone says that internet marketing is easy, the truth is that it is quite complicated until you'll learn how it works. It becomes simple only when you have the right knowledge. Until you'll get there, you have a long journey. You need one thousand mentors, and numerous free lessons in forums, blogs, and websites. You also have to read many free and paid ebooks. Then, you have to take action and put everything you have learned into practice. Then, you have to test your results and improve your methods. Nothing is simple, especially if your niche is not internet marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashtree
    I did have a mentor in Justin Lewis, though he helped me for free Granted I think his advise is worth money, so I suppose that makes sense. 1000's of dollars IDK, maybe.
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
      Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

      I did have a mentor in Justin Lewis, though he helped me for free Granted I think his advise is worth money, so I suppose that makes sense. 1000's of dollars IDK, maybe.
      You seriously lit up my day CashTree

      Thank you so much for the kudos and I'm glad I could help you. It's really nice to see that people actually remember my name and share their experience with others

      Keep up the great work!
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  • Profile picture of the author italad
    well i have looked into getting onto a coaching program, one in particular seemed good at the beginning but after i made a few enquiries this person was almost begging me to sign up, i knew that was a red flag so i didnt go with that coach, but they all arent like that, i have found u still have to put the work, energy and effort to make whatever it is you want to do work, it doesnt help to have a coach yes but nobody should fork out thousands just for some advice i mean after all we just need a nudge in the right direction..
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Duggan
    I think the question to ask is: 'Do I need the structure of having someone show me the step-by-step process, or can I create that structure myself and stick to it?'

    If you need the structure, get a mentor.

    Many people get overwhelmed by all the information out there, so having a mentor to distill it all down helps a lot.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrinternational
    A mentor or coach is not the man with all the answers. He is the person that helps point out what your resources are so you can make the best use of them and also motivates you to achieve success by holding you accountable of your actions or inactions.

    He gives you the tools and knowledge necessary to help you get yourself to the next level.

    He uses different mediums to get you to take action in a planed strategic way in the direction that will bring you closer to your goals.

    Not all mentors are created equal.

    That being said you should try a mentoring program or one on one coaching so you can know what it's about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Noel Cunningham
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
    My mentors didn't necessarily teach me anything I couldn't learn myself but what they did do was guide me through everything so I could get to my goal quicker.

    I don't have a problem paying them their fee's as long as I get results so far that's been the case...If you have the cash I'd say go for it cos they just help to get you up and running faster than you might do on your own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendan Carl
    Personally, I feel as if the main benefit to a mentor is to keep someone on track and to motivate them.

    And, this could be the biggest factor to someone's success.

    So, yes, mentors are useful for many people. Others, maybe not so much. Depends on the person.
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  • Profile picture of the author bjstoltz
    Well, its all about education. There are a lot of good Internet marketers who are
    willing to do coaching at a small cost. Yes, you can do all the research and learning yourself. Find a good experienced internet marketer and he/she can make your online business venture much easier.

    Happy Marketing

    Johan
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  • Profile picture of the author AGP
    I think its down to the individual, im new to IM and looking for a mentor i would rather spend the money to save myself 6-8 months of doing it myself. I have had mentors in other areas and have had great results. You just need to pick the right mentor someone who has 'walked the walk' not just 'talk the talk', which i am struggling to find , so if anyone can recommend someone drop me a PM. cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author timb98133
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I've read people on here say they've dropped hundreds to 10's of thousands on mentors, coaches, or their teaching product line, and I can't but feel like it's just a big waste of money? I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error? Way I see it, marketing seems to be pretty straight forward, you need to something to sell and you need people to sell to. Do you disagree?
    Yes & no.... Personally I believe you could probably learn everything on your own, however having a coach can defiantly shorten the learning curve a LOT. Also one of the problems with the internet is that it's hard to filter out what's really true from garbage. Having a really good coach will hopefully only give you really good information & NOT lead you astray!
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  • Profile picture of the author star007
    I think there are pros and cons to both. When I first started out I ordered a $400 IM course and followed it to a tee and didn't make a dime. Out of desperation and being very naive about Internet marketing, I paid the same person who sold me that course an additional $3,000 for coaching. He did, then provide me with one of the secrets to making money with that particular product, which I copied and was able to make money. Could he have put that same information into that expensive course? Sure, but he didn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Hoffman
    Most of the really succcessful people have had or continue to have a coach. What's unnecessary to some degree are all the info courses. You only need more information, if you've already applied everything you've learned already.

    Get a coach that has already achieved what you hope to achieve. In other words, one that is already successful in the specific area you are looking for results in. Not a general coach or mentor.

    Why is a coach almost required today?

    The world is getting increasingly complicated. Nobody can keep up with everything you need to know for a given area. Either hire a specialist to do what you need done, or hire a coach who specializes in it to teach you how to do it.

    The main problem with going it alone...is that it's way too easy to have tunnel vision. To do the things that fit with your beliefs and knowledge, and to NOT see the mistakes you are making. That's what makes a good coach/mentor like pure gold.

    I don't recommend getting a coach as part of an expensive info course. Look for the coach first and foremost.

    Anyone looking to master copywriting I would recommend mine...Mike Humphreys.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
    I look at it this way.

    When I go to the gym, I work out. I usually work out for about 15 minutes honestly and then I go about doing something else, like playing basketball or racquetball.

    BUT.

    When I got a personal trainer to help me reach my goals, I now go to the gym and work out for about 30 minutes to an hour. My eating habits have changed as well and I feel more motivated to actually do something.

    If you need the push, then a coach/mentor can definitely be helpful.

    Funny thing.

    Instead of finding a coach/mentor in the industry to help me, I went ahead and had my girlfriend assist me. She helps schedule out my day, pushes me to succeed, and definitely keeps me motivated
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrianne_
      I think it depends on the person. If someone is self-motivated
      and can discipline themselves to get the work done with very little
      supervision, then this person doesn't need a coach. Nevertheless,
      it's a good idea to have several people in your circle that you
      can turn to occasionally for advice when you reach a plateau.
      For someone who is not as disciplined or lacks focus, a coach
      or mentor would be a great asset.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    and definitely keeps me motivated
    I think we all know what that means.
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  • Profile picture of the author bigslamgyrl
    Coaches and Mentors are necessary when you are first starting out, but obviously you need to be really careful of who you decide to follow. You don't want to waste your budget on substandard coaching and you don't want to have a coach that is going to teach you something that is not a business model that is going to work for you.

    If I had it to do over again, I would have sat down and looked at the different business models, picked one, and then found the best coach that teaches that business model. If I had thought to do that at the beginning I would have saved myself YEARS of headache.

    Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

    I mean what did they really teach you that you couldn't learn yourself, on here, for free, or by trial and error?
    You're asking the wrong question.

    When you don't know what you're doing, self-directed education is not going to work. It's not that they teach something you can't learn yourself; I joined John Thornhill's One Month Mentor program, and the gist of it is this:

    Start a blog and put a product on Clickbank.

    There you go, I just saved you the cost of the course, right?

    WRONG.

    I got to watch John Thornhill explain exactly how each and every step of that process worked. He told me where to get all the bits and pieces. He told me how long things would take. He hooked me up with a good, reliable graphic designer.

    And while I certainly could have gotten all those things on my own, it would have taken a whole hell of a lot longer than a month.

    When you hire a mentor, you are not trading money for information. You are trading money for time. That mentor has already been there and done that, so it's very little actual work for him to tell you where he went and what he did. But figuring out where to go and what to do probably took years.

    I didn't want to spend years looking for who knows what on forums and blogs. I wanted to spend money and have it in a month.

    That's how things work in business. Money and time are interchangeable. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, you can just spend a lot of time. If you don't have the time, then you have to spend the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author ContentsCreators
    I think having a mentor is really based on the type of person you are. Like many people have said there are people that are good at learning on their own, while others need guidance. However, i do feel as though having a mentor would be beneficial to anybody. It is an investment in yourself. Yes, you can go through trial and error, but you will have a lot of losses in your loss column before you get that first win. With a mentor, you can cut your losses. Also, you shouldn't see spending money on a mentor as a waste, but more so as an investment, as long as you do your research, and find the right mentor. The right mentor is invaluable. You will learn from someone who already has done it. I have taken the route of learning on my own, and I don't regret it at all, but there are times where I wish I had someone who could sit down with me one on one, and tell me "No, don't do this or Do that." I'm in college, and I know when I need help in a class, the best thing to do is to either make sometime to see my professor directly or get a tutor. It gives me direction, and a more personal touch on the subjects, and in turn I learn the material much faster, and I'm already a quick learner as it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author italad
    well i am still looking for a good coach, in the meantime I am still exploring my way around here and im learning as i go along, if and when i do find a good coach at least then i would have some better understanding..
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    The main reason those who hire a mentor have a higher success rate actually has very little to do with the mentor.

    A little critical thinking reveals that those who hire mentors have money... at least enough to high a mentor (which usually is not cheap).

    That also means that they actually have money to spend on getting their online business setup and marketing it. That fact instantly puts them a long way ahead of all the people trying to do it for free or on a shoe string budget.

    virtually anyone who hires a mentor is willing to invest at least 1 k in their business (usually much more than that). That fact alone raises the chances of success by many percentage points over those trying to do everything themselves and for free.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I've always had mentors, accountability partners, and been a
    part of mastermind groups.

    I suppose you could learn some things on your own, but that
    always struck me as the slow, hard way to do it.

    Marketing itself is about trial and error, testing and tracking,
    but again, I'd rather learn from someone else's trail and
    error

    Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      I've always had mentors, accountability partners, and been a
      part of mastermind groups.

      I suppose you could learn some things on your own, but that
      always struck me as the slow, hard way to do it.

      Marketing itself is about trial and error, testing and tracking,
      but again, I'd rather learn from someone else's trail and
      error

      Willie
      Amen to that.
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  • Profile picture of the author italad
    yeah sometimes i think mabye its just better i try things out myself, but it can be very overwhelming when your a newbie
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  • Profile picture of the author quercus5
    Totally depends on the coach/mentor you want to hire and the niche you want to learn. If you're simply looking to duplicate the success of an internet marketer, sometimes that can be difficult because there are so many different factors that go into the craft. However, having a coach can be very helpful to show you the ropes and (more importantly) what to avoid along the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author italad
    yeah but with so many coaches which one lol and they dont come cheap
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  • Profile picture of the author Dazzling Content
    Having a coach or mentor is not necessary, but will get you quicker to success than having to learn things on your own. It's just like learning about HTML or Photoshop in my case. I learned HTML and Photoshop on my own by reading books and websites, then applying what I've learned. Will I be able to learn HTML or Photoshop quicker if I signed up for a web design/graphic design class and learn from an expert? No doubt about it. I would have been able to cut my learning speed from a few years to just several months.

    If you have the money to spend, then by all means possible, get yourself a coach or mentor. That is, if you have the extra cash. I don't advise desperate beginners to scrape for whatever money they can find just to get a mentor. If you have no extra money to hire a mentor or coach, you'll be better off buying an IM course to study at your own pace, and also read the forums to pick up a few tips.

    In short, having a mentor or coach is not an absolute necessity. You can become successful in IM through self-study, but it will take a little bit longer. But you will get there if you put in the effort and commitment.
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  • Profile picture of the author IulianP
    Personally in the beginning I think a mentor is needed. Not because they are better than me but because they can tell you what steps you have to do and they can give me a list of things that I have to do step by step.

    By myself I would have read a lot and never start to take action. Also I was one of those who was following the most shiny new thing and start over and over again
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    • Profile picture of the author mychanization
      for me, it's a yes. for many reason as previous warriors said, especially to keep me focus on the track.
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  • Profile picture of the author phil.wheatley
    There needs to be a balance. On one hand, there are people who take massive action, but doing the wrong things, so they could benefit from a coach who can show them from day one how to go about it. However, even with the best coaching, you still have to be prepared to out the work in, and do the boring stuff like tracking, split testing. This is where people normally give up.

    Yes you can figure this stuff out by yourself, but it just takes longer and will probably cost you more in the long run.

    Cheers
    Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author joefizz
    In my humble opinion, having a coach or mentor will do one thing:
    • Sharpen your skills, thus accelerate the speed at which you experience success...

    As the French say "C'est tout"!

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  • I think that largely depends on you personally and who you get to mentor you. Some people are business minded so marketing is something they pick up rather quickly. Others are not. Some people are really creative and I think the good marketers have a combination of being creative and business minded. Also there are a lot of mentors out there they do not offer what they promise. That being said there are also quite a few that go way out of their way to mentor you and help you succeed. So to answer your question I feel that whether or not a mentor/coach is necessary is really up to the individual. Sure you can get the information yourself but not everyone has the time to devote to gather it or the know how to find it.
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  • Profile picture of the author werpetalpushers
    For some people it is necessary, I think it greatly depends on the person. Some are able to comprehend and learn on their own, and others need to be guided slowly, step-by-step through the process.
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  • Profile picture of the author minion
    Read through the entire thread - to sum it all up:
    Are coaches/mentors really even necessary?
    Answer: It depends on you - Do you feel as though you need a coach/mentor? Some people need one, some people prefer to lean themselves.

    But I have to argue against the people that say "EVERY successful XYZ has a coach/mentor". I know a few different people running successful (multi-million dollar) businesses both offline and online who have never had a coach mentor - and in fact, it was trial+error (and complete failure) that got them to where they are today.

    Everytime I hear that statement (especially from coaches/mentors), it puts me completely off - I immediately wonder questions such as:
    Not everyone needs a mentor - where did they get that statement from?
    If it were true, who would have coached the first internet marketer?
    It comes across as sales hype, and I'm not looking for hype - I'm looking for results.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by minion View Post

      But I have to argue against the people that say "EVERY successful XYZ has a coach/mentor".
      That's because you're a polarity responder like me - we hate generalisations like that because they're obviously not true and therefore make us respond negatively to the concept being proposed.
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author minion
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        That's because you're a polarity responder like me - we hate generalisations like that because they're obviously not true and therefore make us respond negatively to the concept being proposed.
        Surely that's a common reaction though? I don't usually accept generalisations - (unless it's backed up by evidence).. I would have thought that most people would view statements like that the same way, so have always wondered why coaches continue to use them.

        I've also been through the "qualification" process, where they've tried to make it sound as though they're qualifying me to see if I fit into their program, but I end up thinking "They're working out how much money they can drain from me, not whether they can help me".

        What I'd like to see is a coach/mentor who can provide a personalized service, showing clients what they expect to achieve on an INDIVIDUAL level. I don't want to hear that your last client made $50,000 in one month - that means nothing to me, they could be selling a completely different product to a completely different market. I want to know that your methods can work for my business, and that you know my business is unique.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Sneen
    Coaches and mentors are valuable when you are here........and you wanna be here! You need to know where you are and what you want to do. With specific questions, expert opinion is always valuable!
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    David Sneen
    It's what you do when no one is watching
    that determines what you will be able to
    do when everyone is watching.
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  • Profile picture of the author Carol_A
    I think it depends on two things:

    Time
    Money

    If you have a lot of time and enjoy learning things at a slower pace, fine go it alone.

    I wanted guidance so decided to get a coach soon after starting Internet marketing.

    I'm glad for the business model that he taught me, but NOT glad that he scammed me out of over three thousand dollars of affiliate commissions!

    I was gun shy on coaches/mentors after that and waited long and hard before testing the waters again.

    Having been through the ringer, I still would recommend getting a personal coach - accountability is essential and being pushed to leave your comfort zone is also critical.

    I am enjoying the rewards of my hard work, and I plan on staying on the cautious yet straight and narrow IM road.

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  • Profile picture of the author IGP
    Banned
    coaches tell you what you do wrong and can either tell you what you need to do to improve or you can find that out by yourself. The idea is that you cant watch yourself, you can be aware for your actions but 2nd and 3rd person vision is about perfection. As far as a coach in Im goes, they save you time. Instead of having a question and not an answer you can ask them and they can answer and then you can do whatever you want with it, you can use it or try and (dis)prove it.
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  • Profile picture of the author World Marketing
    They definitely help to get the ball rolling but once you find something that works and gain enough knowledge you can be your own mentor.
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    I make $5,000+ a month online [CLICK HERE] to see how you can do the same starting today!

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