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British Gov to montior every website, emails, skype,databases in UK

by vic alexander
50 replies
Hi all. Though this action was previously rumoured it is going to addressed in Queens Speech to be implemented into law. It will affect those in UK, and the Gov intends to access ip addresses, emails, and any database they see fit to monitor. This will allow access for use in intelligence.

British coaliton government will pass law to have access to any website, skype account, email account even text messages. This is a new law to be passed by parliament to gain powers to monitor illegal activity.
The civil liberites groups are against a 'big brother' style montiorting though it could be there to protect citizens. However, it is similar to monitoring seen in Iran and China. In other words, it will put UK on the same survillenace levels as that of Iran and China!

Should we be at all worried if in UK, or will be be a case of if you have nothing to hide, it is for your own protection? l
#british #databases #emails #gov #montior #skype #website
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Wow ... they're going to busy little beavers monitoring all of that. Pretty drastic.
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    • Profile picture of the author jorgesil
      With the excuse that this is to protect us what they
      want is to control everything you do?

      There are not much diference betwen Iran, China
      and the so called democracies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Wow ... they're going to busy little beavers monitoring all of that. Pretty drastic.
      It's largely aimed at stopping terrorism and other larger crimes.

      It is not so the government can look at your Amazon affiliate sites and shut them down.

      Incidentally, to the OP, China and Iran are probably less at risk of a terror attack than the UK too. Also how does doing something "similar" to what China and Iran put the UK on the same level as those two places?

      This is better off in the OT section but I'd be surprised if they didn't already do this anyway and this is just a way of making it legitimate. Believe me, there's more going on than they let the general public know about, you only have to look at the ridiculous way everyone panicked over "talk" of a petrol strike to realise that the general public is unable to cope with the most basic of necessities being removed.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        It's largely aimed at stopping terrorism and other larger crimes.

        It is not so the government can look at your Amazon affiliate sites and shut them down.
        Once information is collected the uses it is put to will only expand.

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Once information is collected the uses it is put to will only expand.

          .
          My point was more along the lines that they probably already have that information anyway, it's not like the public are privvy to what goes on behind the scenes.

          I also didn't say it was a good thing either.
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      • Profile picture of the author spearce000
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        I'd be surprised if they didn't already do this anyway and this is just a way of making it legitimate.
        I'm sure they've already got cosy arrangements with the likes of "big G", PayPal etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        This is better off in the OT section but I'd be surprised if they didn't already do this anyway and this is just a way of making it legitimate.
        You took the words out of my mouth.

        I'd be suprised at the people who are suprised...
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        • Profile picture of the author TG12
          They cannot tell WHAT you are communicating. But simply WHO and for HOW LONG you have been communication with. They still need a warrant to see WHAT it is that you have been saying.

          Rumor has it that the guy who was found in a bath stuffed inside a bag last year was working on this as part of his secondment.

          For saying that I'm surprised I don't get a knock at the door ha!
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          • Profile picture of the author spearce000
            As I recall, a similar idea was floated back when Tony Blair was PM, but the ISPs objected to having to foot the bill for installing all the equipment. I suppose the taxpayer will foot the bill now.

            Originally Posted by TG12 View Post

            Rumor has it that the guy who was found in a bath stuffed inside a bag last year was working on this as part of his secondment.

            For saying that I'm surprised I don't get a knock at the door ha!
            Give it time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Incidentally, to the OP, China and Iran are probably less at risk of a terror attack than the UK too. Also how does doing something "similar" to what China and Iran put the UK on the same level as those two places?
        Baby steps. One little step at a time. Give it a few more years.

        Further, China and Iran are under a huge threat from an attack - an internal one rebelling against the tyranny. China just threw some webmasters in their gulags not too long ago for things reported about government actions. I am sure you remember Tieneman Square - the chinese don't as it has been whitewashed and erased from their collective memory.

        There is this American ex-pat that lives in Cost Rica that I used to argue with on the net 15 years ago or so. He told me the US was becoming a police state. Made comparisons to the Stassi. I told him he was nuts. 15 years later, this kind of crap is going on and I realize that ex-pat was right:


        I'm no safer for this little girl being groped; you are no safer for your government spying on you and data mining you. And yes, there is a long term plan and reason for all of this ... worldwide China model for all of us.

        Benjamin Franklin:

        They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

          Baby steps. One little step at a time. Give it a few more years.

          Further, China and Iran are under a huge threat from an attack - an internal one rebelling against the tyranny. China just threw some webmasters in their gulags not too long ago for things reported about government actions. I am sure you remember Tieneman Square - the chinese don't as it has been whitewashed and erased from their collective memory.

          There is this American ex-pat that lives in Cost Rica that I used to argue with on the net 15 years ago or so. He told me the US was becoming a police state. Made comparisons to the Stassi. I told him he was nuts. 15 years later, this kind of crap is going on and I realize that ex-pat was right:

          TSA still groping kids... - YouTube

          I'm no safer for this little girl being groped; you are no safer for your government spying on you and data mining you. And yes, there is a long term plan and reason for all of this ... worldwide China model for all of us.

          Benjamin Franklin:

          They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
          Where did I say I agreed with it?
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          • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Where did I say I agreed with it?
            I didn't suggest you did. If I came across that way it was not my intention and my apology is duly proffered if you took it as such. What I was pointing out is that comparisons to China and Iran are not as far off base as you were asserting, IMO. I used that vid as an example of how these things creep and become ever more invasive. The TSA was created to protect me from further terrorists attacks. Yet, today, just a few years later, they grope little girls who are obviously neither radical terrorists nor a threat to anyone.

            Why?

            Because they can. Because they want to. Because there is a much bigger plan in place and it cannot be rolled out all at once. Because that is how this stuff works. 'Stuff' being an erosion of personal freedoms and liberties sold under the guise of keeping you safe. Step after step towards the China model.

            Again, Richard, my intention was not to put words in your mouth, merely to offer my opinion that when governments take steps such as the ones yours is proposing, the end results are always worse than suggested and comparisons to more tyrannical governments are not as outlandish or unreasonable as they might first appear.

            Simply some fodder for the noggin to munch on - nothing more, nothing less. Take care and please accept my apology if you thought I was twisting your words around on you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Wow ... they're going to busy little beavers monitoring all of that. Pretty drastic.
      They say they'll be "monitoring" only very selected, specific instances involving known terrorist threats, and so on. And that there'll be safeguards to ensure that that's so.

      Which (as always, where such matters are concerned) is pretty difficult to argue with, in principle.

      To look at the content of anything (emails etc.) they'll still need a case-specific warrant, just as they do now for a telephone-tap.

      At the moment it's only a proposal, anyway. Before even this development can be brought in, they'd have to get it through both Houses of Parliament (which many "informed sources" seem to feel is pretty unlikely without at least some radical amendments/restrictions being introduced during that process).
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  • Profile picture of the author melleni
    Ive nothing to hide but don't like the idea of it at all
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    That's how they are going to solve the unemployment problem. = )
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Not this again, I thought we got rid of these plans a couple of years ago.

    They're back?? Under a different government? They need to look at the outrage it caused last time, and take note.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Bradley
      Originally Posted by Mick Meaney View Post

      Not this again, I thought we got rid of these plans a couple of years ago.

      They're back?? Under a different government? They need to look the outrage it caused last time, and take note.
      Afraid so.Last time it was a Labour administration trying to push it through and the Tories voted against it,and now as part of the Coalition they're trying to make it Law.Makes me wonder if higher powers are at work here.

      I'm not so worried about the fact that they will be able to access my information.What concerns me is what they do with it.Government agencies in the U.K. don't have a great track record in keeeping our private details private.If an MI5 official can leave Top Secret files on a train then you really have to question how intelligent Intelligence Agencies really are.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    Sadly, it is already occuring. Not just in the UK...
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Skelly
    George Orwell may have been off by 30 or so years but the outcome is still the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author Azhan
    One of illuminati's plan? Meh just kidding.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashtree
    LOL at protect citizens. This is absolutely disgusting and every single person in Britain should be standing up against this crap. If you make no stand and just let it become law, then you have no one to blame but yourselves, and have no reason to be upset when they start abusing it and you realize you have 0 freedoms left. I don't know if Britain has a constitution but this is seriously disturbing, and they might as well just start implanting id chips in everyone's hand, and make that your only form of currency too...remember it's to "protect you".
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    America, we supposedly have this thing called the constitution that prevents stuff like this.

    So much for that idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

      America, we supposedly have this thing called the constitution that prevents stuff like this.

      So much for that idea.
      Yup, but Britain don't have the American Constitution.

      We do have the "Human Rights" laws though, but the only time I see that in action it appears to be protecting the terrorists and criminals.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Without a credible citation, your thread is merely a rumour.
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  • Profile picture of the author briankoz
    Two things:

    1: Someone here said this:
    Incidentally, to the OP, China and Iran are probably less at risk of a terror attack than the UK too.
    I think that's very hard to honestly say, and probably shows that you're just not familiar with China, Iran, or any country outside of the UK / US. Pretty much any country, especially those two, have tons of internal issues, attacks, etc. just like any other place. Although the source or group behind it might be different.

    2. You might say that this is only a risk if you're a terrorist, but if you say that, you're failing to recall any history of virtually anywhere in the world. You only have to look back a handful of decades in the U.S. to see where similar rules (albeit not with the internet obviously) were put in place and used for other purposes even though the public was sold on it to protect them from "communism."

    History repeats itself to those that don't understand it.

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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by briankoz View Post

      Two things:

      1: Someone here said this:
      That was me.

      I think that's very hard to honestly say, and probably shows that you're just not familiar with China, Iran, or any country outside of the UK / US.
      No. What that shows is you're definately clueless about me. Suggesting I'm not familiar with any country outside my own is very shallow sighted, presumptive and completely wrong on your part.

      Underneath my avatar is the word "London", that's in the UK. I'm surprised you didn't spot that.

      2. You might say that this is only a risk if you're a terrorist, but if you say that, you're failing to recall any history of virtually anywhere in the world. You only have to look back a handful of decades in the U.S. to see where similar rules (albeit not with the internet obviously) were put in place and used for other purposes even though the public was sold on it to protect them from "communism."
      What if I might not say that?

      Lot's of presumptions on your part and incidentally I was just responding to the OP saying this...

      However, it is similar to monitoring seen in Iran and China. In other words, it will put UK on the same survillenace levels as that of Iran and China!
      I was simply commenting that having similar monitoring doesn't mean we have the same levels of surveillence and just like you, I'm unaware if Al Qaeda currently have plans to take over China or unseat Ahmadinejad or those he speaks for in Iran.

      I wasn't talking about 30 years from now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
    I highly doubt they have the means to actually do this, but even if they do it wouldn't effect me since I'm an Aussie. I really don't see this coming to fruition though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I highly doubt they have the means to actually do this
      You're kidding, right?

      Google has the capability to pick keywords from the audio tracks of YouTube uploads. So much for not being able to monitor all the phone calls they want.

      Text? Easy stuff. Bayesian filters have been getting better and better over time. Relevant connections? Also easy.

      Wrong words used, or too many "suspicious" connections? Do a quick DB search on all their emails, text messages, Skype chats, etc. Run that through a more advanced processing system, and kick the results to a human if they exceed certain thresholds.

      And that's just based on knowing what's publicly available in terms of technology, and not all of it at that.

      The trick isn't even the technology any more. It's the level of accuracy.


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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        You're kidding, right?

        Google has the capability to pick keywords from the audio tracks of YouTube uploads. So much for not being able to monitor all the phone calls they want.

        Text? Easy stuff. Bayesian filters have been getting better and better over time. Relevant connections? Also easy.

        Wrong words used, or too many "suspicious" connections? Do a quick DB search on all their emails, text messages, Skype chats, etc. Run that through a more advanced processing system, and kick the results to a human if they exceed certain thresholds.

        And that's just based on knowing what's publicly available in terms of technology, and not all of it at that.

        The trick isn't even the technology any more. It's the level of accuracy.


        Paul
        Don't forget Echelon - that's been in activation for around a decade at the least. It was probably the first "spying" technology used on the public in any mass way - first I am aware of anyway. That works on phones. If you say a keyword or phrase, the call is monitored.

        The phone companies were asked to monitor people's calls in other ways after 9/11. People found out and filed huge lawsuits - and the President just made it legal for them to do it and then gave them a retroactive pardon.

        What I can't believe is that there are still people around who think they aren't being monitored at some point or other or that it's a harmless thing. If you've had a phone conversation in the last decade that you've said anything like "grandma's apple pie is the BOMB" - you've been monitored. This thread has keywords up the ying in it - (Hi to the pervert paid to read this stuff). Describe anything personal about that wild night with that gorgeous god/goddess with one of your friends? How'd ya love to have some perv listening in on it? Just because what you did wasn't illegal doesn't mean you want people listening to you talk about things.

        It's way past the date people should be surprised about feeling the government nose up your crack. For those who think it's no big deal because they have nothing to hide -- stop and think about that one. Don't you really? From monitoring, you are just a jump away from "self confessions" of illegal actions. Did you speed and not get caught? Don't tell anyone or you might get a ticket -- it will keep us all SAFE if you do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kael41
    Take it from someone here who has first hand knowledge into some of what is being discussed here..this stuff is very real from a technological point of view, and you would be very, very, very surprised if you actually knew who the vendor software companies were that actually submit RFP responses to some of the RFI's floated around by Government entities.


    And that's all I'll pretty much say about that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Don't worry, folks... Income Tax was only 1% when it was introduced.

    They never expanded that, did they?
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    • Profile picture of the author philhunter
      I can't believe they are even proposing this crap, don't they realise we have NO money left, its time the conservatives, labour and lib dems were all kicked into touch and we had someone totally new running the country that actually cared about it more than themselves/power.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikelukjaniec
    They'll dress it up as an absolute necessity but don't believe anything they say. It's just another excuse for keeping tabs on ordinary, law-abiding citizens!
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    with all the money that this will cost to maintain and implement pehaps they should should just scrap the garbage idea and put the money towards lowering petrol prices

    this would help more people out

    paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Billy Levin
    Hmm. So, we've recently come out of a recession, and petrol prices are rising a heck of a lot. You'd think they'd use their money on stabilising our economy.

    But no.

    They're going to waste time and money to invade innocent people's privacy.

    Ridiculous.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by manicmonkey View Post

      Hmm. So, we've recently come out of a recession, and petrol prices are rising a heck of a lot. You'd think they'd use their money on stabilising our economy.

      But no.

      They're going to waste time and money to invade innocent people's privacy.

      Ridiculous.
      Just remember, it's for your safety lol. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author datingworld
    Nothing to hide at all but to be honest I don't like the idea at all because you will always think that someone is there who is monitoring each of your step on the web..
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    And amazingly all the data from everyone's everything will be able to fit on a new mini disc that has been developed, that can fit inside a pen or an ipad. It can hold 1,000 ziga-triga-wiga bytes of data.

    I wasn't sure, but deep down, I new my tax money was being spent on something worthwhile ;-)

    Incidentally, this is what you get when the political climate becomes a taxocracy.
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  • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
    I heard from a pretty reliable source probably as long as ten years ago that the UK government back then had equipment in place to monitor all phone calls and emails for certain "trigger words".
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    • Profile picture of the author Kael41
      Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

      I heard from a pretty reliable source probably as long as ten years ago that the UK government back then had equipment in place to monitor all phone calls and emails for certain "trigger words".
      This isn't secret stuff, just Google Carnivore and Echelon. If you want to dig deeper and do more research, consider reading up on Latent Semantic Indexing and Ngrams
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  • Profile picture of the author cashtree
    I'll never understand of how hundreds of millions of people think it's a great idea to put a few people in power just so they can make it worse for everyone. They should have to answer to the people and the people should have the right to overrule any and all bs bills. I guess it's better than back in the day where people who were in power got there for simply being born(kings etc...) or were friends of those in power but still, the reality is many who get in power don't belong there and the only way to prevent corruption is checks and balances, just like the US constitution says.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas
    Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

    This is better off in the OT section but I'd be surprised if they didn't already do this anyway and this is just a way of making it legitimate.
    They do, and have done for many decades.

    In fact, ALL governments do it to varying extents.

    All of them... without exception.

    And there isn't always some Orwellian motive to it either: Here, in Ireland (where police/defence budgets are only a tiny fraction of those in the UK/US/etc.), the ability to locate and track mobile phones, both in near real-time and retrospectively, has prevented more terrorist attacks than will ever be admitted to, and was already considered sufficiently routine and mundane nearly a decade ago to be publically-disclosed in at least 2 different murder cases.

    Tommy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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      Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

      They do, and have done for many decades.

      In fact, ALL governments do it to varying extents.

      All of them... without exception.

      And there isn't always some Orwellian motive to it either: Here, in Ireland (where police/defence budgets are only a tiny fraction of those in the UK/US/etc.), the ability to locate and track mobile phones, both in near real-time and retrospectively, has prevented more terrorist attacks that will ever be admitted to, and was already considered sufficiently routine and mundane nearly a decade ago to be publically-disclosed in at least 2 different murder cases.

      Tommy.
      I agree, not every single thing that the government does is meant (in principle at least) to screw with your freedoms. Just a natural reaction for people to be afraid. I think overall it is a good thing, as it keeps people on their toes. It gets a little ridiculous when people start upping the rhetoric though.
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  • Profile picture of the author briankoz
    That was me.

    Quote:
    I think that's very hard to honestly say, and probably shows that you're just not familiar with China, Iran, or any country outside of the UK / US.
    No. What that shows is you're definately clueless about me. Suggesting I'm not familiar with any country outside my own is very shallow sighted, presumptive and completely wrong on your part.

    Underneath my avatar is the word "London", that's in the UK. I'm surprised you didn't spot that.

    Quote:
    2. You might say that this is only a risk if you're a terrorist, but if you say that, you're failing to recall any history of virtually anywhere in the world. You only have to look back a handful of decades in the U.S. to see where similar rules (albeit not with the internet obviously) were put in place and used for other purposes even though the public was sold on it to protect them from "communism."
    What if I might not say that?

    Lot's of presumptions on your part and incidentally I was just responding to the OP saying this...
    Richard, you said that I didn't notice you were in London. Not sure what that has to do with any of this? I actually did know that you were in London and even in my post said "UK / US" so not sure how you thought I wasn't including the UK in that...

    As for the second part, that wasn't directed at you -- that was directed at everyone / this thread in general and not specifically to your reply.

    But back to the first part, if you think that China and Iran are less likely to come under any kind of terrorist attack, I think you're mistaken on that. That was my entire point on that first comment. Not implying that you're clueless on anything around the world.

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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by briankoz View Post

      Richard, you said that I didn't notice you were in London. Not sure what that has to do with any of this? I actually did know that you were in London and even in my post said "UK / US" so not sure how you thought I wasn't including the UK in that...
      Crossed wires here, I was responding to when you said this...

      and probably shows that you're just not familiar with China, Iran, or any country outside of the UK / US.
      I was more annoyed with what I took as an assumption I had no idea what happened outside the UK.

      But back to the first part, if you think that China and Iran are less likely to come under any kind of terrorist attack, I think you're mistaken on that. That was my entire point on that first comment. Not implying that you're clueless on anything around the world.
      Fair point and my apologies, in truth I'm not clueless about the rest of the world but I'm not entirely up to speed on the terror threat to China and least of all Iran, they seem to be doing a rather nice job of fighting fire with fire anyway.

      Christopher Fox - Again, Richard, my intention was not to put words in your mouth, merely to offer my opinion that when governments take steps such as the ones yours is proposing, the end results are always worse than suggested and comparisons to more tyrannical governments are not as outlandish or unreasonable as they might first appear.
      My apologies to you as well. It would appear I interpreted both your and Brians post a little wrongly.

      Just to clarify my first and original point, it was not to belittle or say these plans are not extremely questionable but it was to point out that getting all stressed up about it isn't my priority when I was under the impression they could do all this anyway.

      Brian and Christopher, once again my apologies for misunderstanding your posts.
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  • Profile picture of the author JDIZM
    As days go by they are tightening up their net, it's only a matter of time before they have cameras and tracking devices on everyone! Big Brother is watching....
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