What the heck happened to this place?

101 replies
Holy cow....you disappear for two years and look what happens...

When I last left this place, there was no such thing as Warrior Plus, WSO's were 20 bucks, and the forum seemed to be maturing into the kind of place where smart, effective marketers could share info with each other - with minimal infighting, backstabbing, and other assorted garbage.

Yes, there was noise, but the signal was still relatively easy to find, and the ratio between the two was tolerable.

I've come back in recent days, and what I've found is a WSO system whose costs have doubled, yet the quality has dropped, the hype is outrageous and the quantity is out of control, outlandish ads at the top of the forum, endless "burn and chrun" cheapie products with dubious headlines that look like they were written for the next Amway convention, and so much noise that I'm struggling to find useful material to comment on try to help out.

Where is the Warrior Forum I knew and grew to love going back to 2004? Is it gone? Is it hiding somewhere?

I want to be wrong, but the changes I see from early 2010 to now look an awful lot like a pure money grab, to the detriment of what was once an amazing place.

I want to believe there is still some "amazing" left here. If so, where is it?

-Mike
#decline #happened #heck #noise #place #warrior forum
  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    It went from a community to a resource.

    Just put on your BS detector / filter and continue as before.

    (The aforementioned filter needs to work overtime these days.)
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Yep, automation is now spam, and outsourcing a e-book to someone to wrote for a few hundred bucks - is not - and value to the customer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Sorry, could you run that past me again, I didn't understand it. :confused:
          It was just regarding everyone jumping on the bandwagon about automating Twitter being spam.
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            It was just regarding everyone jumping on the bandwagon about automating Twitter being spam.
            Oh I see, sorry, I thought I was having a brain freeze. That's why I deleted the post, I genuinely thought I was having a struggle understanding it.

            I believe I was reading that thread earlier, regarding Tweetattacks etc? It was an interesting thread. I don't really use Twitter so I couldn't comment though.

            Mike, excuse my ignorance but are you "bring the fresh" Mike?
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
              Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

              Mike, excuse my ignorance but are you "bring the fresh" Mike?
              Unfortunately no, I'm only the second most famous internet marketer with my name.

              Amazing that two of us with the same name - on opposite coasts - got started in IM very early on, and both of us found early success online. What are the odds?

              The main difference between is that the IM market wasn't where my primary focus was...until now. So I'm not as well known in this space.
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

                Unfortunately no, I'm only the second most famous internet marketer with my name.

                Amazing that two of us with the same name - on opposite coasts - got started in IM very early on, and both of us found early success online.

                What are the odds?
                I do apologise.

                You even look similar, it's hard to tell with the photo.

                Good for you though, I had a look around your blog too, very interesting stuff. It's good to see someone like yourself coming back to the forum.

                On a positive note, you know from past experience here, who to listen to and who not to, you just have to sort the good from the bad from those that joined since you left.

                Nice to meet you Mike.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
                  Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                  I do apologise.

                  You even look similar, it's hard to tell with the photo.

                  Good for you though, I had a look around your blog too, very interesting stuff. It's good to see someone like yourself coming back to the forum.

                  On a positive note, you know from past experience here, who to listen to and who not to, you just have to sort the good from the bad from those that joined since you left.

                  Nice to meet you Mike.
                  Thanks Richard! It's nice to meet you as well.
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

                Unfortunately no, I'm only the second most famous internet marketer with my name.

                Amazing that two of us with the same name - on opposite coasts - got started in IM very early on, and both of us found early success online. What are the odds?

                The main difference between is that the IM market wasn't where my primary focus was...until now. So I'm not as well known in this space.

                Wow that is crazy !! I thought you were BTF Mike. I guess I will have take back my Thanks I gave you !! jk

                You even resemble him in that picture.. thats wild lol
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              • Profile picture of the author Dan Curtis
                Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post


                Amazing that two of us with the same name - on opposite coasts - got started in IM very early on, and both of us found early success online. What are the odds?
                The odds are actually 100%, since it happened. Like the odds of getting hit by lightning if it already happened. Or becoming famous with no talent. Or the next child being a boy, when you already have 11 boys.
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  • Profile picture of the author OhioWriter
    While I certainly have not been here as long, I'm a bit underwhelmed with how much actual information someone can gain on here.

    Most of the threads (myself included actually, because I think I joined the club) come off as nothing more than as an inadvertent way of getting their signature links out there.

    I'd much rather do work and learn an occasional thing or two the right way than come here to try and trick new people every day. I get this slimy feeling trying to push anything.

    Let me know when you find the amazing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

    I want to believe there is still some "amazing" left here. If so, where is it?
    I think you have to go to Area 51 to find it...

    ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author atvking
      All the knowledge is still there. It's up to you how hard you want to search for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

      I think you have to go to Area 51 to find it...

      ~Bill
      Area 51 or the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland where they're creating mini black holes and neutrinos that travel faster than light.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

        Area 51 or the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland where they're creating mini black holes and neutrinos that travel faster than light.
        I take it you missed the connection...




        ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Marsala
    I used to lurk at this forum for a few years and I finally decided to open an account. I have to admit that the WF has changed. There is still a lot of good information. I'm often disappointed by the WSOs.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
    Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

    Holy cow....you disappear for two years and look what happens...

    . . .

    I want to believe there is still some "amazing" left here. If so, where is it?

    -Mike
    I've been here reading, on and off, for the last two years. I've noticed an incredible amount of BS myself, but I keep reading because I'm able to find a post, on occasion, where I can actually feel like I'm helping someone out. That, and I like it when my "thanks" counter goes up, so I try to be really helpful whenever possible.

    -- j
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      I've been here reading, on and off, for the last two years. I've noticed an incredible amount of BS myself, but I keep reading because I'm able to find a post, on occasion, where I can actually feel like I'm helping someone out. That, and I like it when my "thanks" counter goes up, so I try to be really helpful whenever possible.
      -- j
      Bingo...

      That's what I think I'm going to try and do, sift through it all, separate the wheat from the chaff, and pick out those posts where I can prove to be useful and helpful.

      In my own tiny little way, maybe I can help redistribute that signal to noise ratio somewhat.

      -Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
        Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

        Bingo...

        That's what I think I'm going to try and do, sift through it all, separate the wheat from the chaff, and pick out those posts where I can prove to be useful and helpful.

        In my own tiny little way, maybe I can help redistribute that signal to noise ratio somewhat.

        -Mike
        Yep, you have to sift through a lot of money grubbers but there is also really great value so glad you are back and willing to stick with it and contribute to the quality.

        Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
        Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

        Bingo...

        That's what I think I'm going to try and do, sift through it all, separate the wheat from the chaff, and pick out those posts where I can prove to be useful and helpful.

        In my own tiny little way, maybe I can help redistribute that signal to noise ratio somewhat.

        -Mike
        Yep, you have to sift through a lot of money grubbers but there is also really great value so glad you are back and willing to stick with it and contribute to the quality.

        Thanks.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

          I want to believe there is still some "amazing" left here. If so, where is it?

          -Mike


          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          I think you have to go to Area 51 to find it...

          ~Bill

          Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

          Area 51 or the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland where they're creating mini black holes and neutrinos that travel faster than light.
          There may be some amazing things inside Area 51 and the Large Hadron Collider that you probably won't find here on the WF.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Joe,
          Seriously though the forum seems to me to be about what it was two years ago.
          I wondered how long it would be before anyone said that.

          This sort of thread is common. It's been a recurring theme over the years, and it always sounds about the same.

          People go away from the place for a while and the recognition filters they'd developed become rusty. They then see everything that's here, rather than auto-filtering for what they want.

          Griping about the WSO section is probably about to become an Olympic event. Mike's done a much more sensible version of the usual post, but it's still the usual post. And a great example of how the place really only changes in scope, rather than style or substance.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
            Paul is absolutely right.

            And keep in mind too, that any good marketer worth his salt maximizes his time by ensuring that anything he does, he does for multiple reasons.

            I've been involved in IM in some form or fashion since 1999. I have my flaws and faults which have ensured that the success I've seen has been up, down, and inconsistent, but believe me, I have the fundamentals down pat.

            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            I wondered how long it would be before anyone said that.

            This sort of thread is common. It's been a recurring theme over the years, and it always sounds about the same.

            Griping about the WSO section is probably about to become an Olympic event. Mike's done a much more sensible version of the usual post, but it's still the usual post. And a great example of how the place really only changes in scope, rather than style or substance.

            Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author thetrafficguy
    It has definitely changed.

    But... there's still value here. Just have to dig in a little more. A lot more newbies here than there used to be.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman
    Mike...welcome back to a BETTER forum IMO

    I love this place, learned tons on here browsing around and asking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
    Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

    Holy cow....you disappear for two years and look what happens...

    When I last left this place, there was no such thing as Warrior Plus, WSO's were 20 bucks, and the forum seemed to be maturing into the kind of place where smart, effective marketers could share info with each other - with minimal infighting, backstabbing, and other assorted garbage.

    Yes, there was noise, but the signal was still relatively easy to find, and the ratio between the two was tolerable.

    I've come back in recent days, and what I've found is a WSO system whose costs have doubled, yet the quality has dropped, the hype is outrageous and the quantity is out of control, outlandish ads at the top of the forum, endless "burn and chrun" cheapie products with dubious headlines that look like they were written for the next Amway convention, and so much noise that I'm struggling to find useful material to comment on try to help out.

    Where is the Warrior Forum I knew and grew to love going back to 2004? Is it gone? Is it hiding somewhere?

    I want to be wrong, but the changes I see from early 2010 to now look an awful lot like a pure money grab, to the detriment of what was once an amazing place.

    I want to believe there is still some "amazing" left here. If so, where is it?

    -Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mike,

      Thread titles. That's the secret. Well, that and choosing the right sub-forum(s) for each thing you want to find.

      The proliferation of affiliate opportunities is only part of what's driving a lot of change here. A big part, but still just a part.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
        Thank goodness the one thing I can always count on is you being here as the voice of reason. Thanks Paul.

        And you're right....already today I've started making adjustments to filtering out thread titles as a way to find topics where I can help out.

        Now, if only you would produce a book on how to navigate the WF or something.

        -Mike

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Mike,

        Thread titles. That's the secret. Well, that and choosing the right sub-forum(s) for each thing you want to find.

        The proliferation of affiliate opportunities is only part of what's driving a lot of change here. A big part, but still just a part.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Mike,
          Now, if only you would produce a book on how to navigate the WF or something.
          Have I told you today that you're a smartass?


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author LloydC
            It's sad but true, I never got to see it in it's full glory, but I don't even check the WSO section anymore. As far as I understood, it was supposed to be a place where warriors who were going to offer their products to the PUBLIC would offer them here at a cheaper price. But instead it just seems that people are making a full-time income JUST using the WSO forum and not even bothering going public. I wouldn't be suprised if a good 3/4 of it is just rehashed PLR and MMR.

            Meh, at least if you wade through the "HOW DO I MAEK MONIEZ ONLINE" threads there's some good discussions and information.
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          • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
            There is still a lot of great people and good information here on the Warrior Forum just as before. It may take you longer to find it, however. As far as the WSO's go, well, I won't comment on that one.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Mike,Have I told you today that you're a smartass?

            Paul
            Sorry...couldn't help myself.

            In all seriousness though, the fact that you're still here makes me believe that there is still plenty of value here to be had, I've just got to dig through more "stuff".
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Mike,

              Here's another "secret" to keeping up on the stuff you want: Make a list of the people who regularly post useful comments on the topics you're interested in, and occasionally look at the list of their posts. Look for subject lines that are relevant. Check out those threads.

              That'll increase the value of the time you spend here in ways you might not believe until you try it.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Mike,

                Here's another "secret" to keeping up on the stuff you want: Make a list of the people who regularly post useful comments on the topics you're interested in, and occasionally look at the list of their posts. Look for subject lines that are relevant. Check out those threads.

                That'll increase the value of the time you spend here in ways you might not believe until you try it.


                Paul
                Or how about check out the All-in-one threads and use the search feature. I don't remember if the All-in-one threads are over 2 years old or not, but they are rockin. There's been a lot of great stuff shared here over the past 2 years. I especially like it because it seems that industry news gets posted here in the Main Discussion Forum a lot.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

          Thank goodness the one thing I can always count on is you being here as the voice of reason. Thanks Paul.

          And you're right....already today I've started making adjustments to filtering out thread titles as a way to find topics where I can help out.

          Now, if only you would produce a book on how to navigate the WF or something.

          -Mike
          He did. It's a mindmap

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ior-forum.html

          EDIT: I see, that was sarcasm ... lol

          Please use the appropriate sarcasm tags in the future
          [sarcasm] [/sarcasm off]
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
      Jeez...they're charging for everything in this place now!!

      Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

        Jeez...they're charging for everything in this place now!!
        Ooops, that will be another $5, please.


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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          Ooops, that will be another $5, please.
          LOL! :p

          Becky!!

          It's good to see another familiar face. Phil Wiley is starting to write again. It's beginning to feel like old home week!
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    • Profile picture of the author Simmeon
      Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post



      Quality is here, you just need to search harder to find it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Zalesky
    Yea this place has changed a lot since I joined. It has slowly become a money hungry power house with some information that can be golden nuggets but your luck at finding them is about as good as striking it rich up in the Alaskan mountains lol. I think the issue now is that there is much less quality info provided verse what it used to be like. The guys that I used to follow on every thread dont seem to post hear anymore as that once did. So hopefully this place comes around or maybe there will be the next big thing down the street somewhere else.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Welcome back Mike Long, you don't expect to leave Jericho for almost a decade and still come to meet it the same.

    There must be negative and positive, things that you will like and this that you will detest.

    The forum is not really that bad, there is still plenty of chance to make $$$$, i guess that is the most important thing.

    Welcome once again.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Wow, tell us how you really feel.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Wow, tell us how you really feel.
      One of the joys of traveling down the road I have, is that it makes it easier to speak freely when something's on my mind. And yes, I realize that my tone is taking kind of a "get these damn kids off my lawn" approach. I don't mean for it to, and I do fully realize that everything changes.

      The extent of the change in a relatively short period of time was a little jarring though.

      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      This thread really doesn't add much value to the WF, since we're being critical and all
      You know, I was actually afraid that this post might get me royally flamed (or worse), but everyone's been civil, and thoughtful, and it's left me feeling like maybe I can find a way to be useful here.

      You know, kind of how it used to be.

      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      This seems to be a drive-by thread.

      One of the reasons why WSO costs have gone up is to up the threshhold that prevents just any-ole-crap from being listed.
      We'll have to agree to disagree on that one for now. Even back when WSO's were free, the signal-to-noise ratio was still high. It's higher than ever now, even though the costs continue to go up.

      I might argue a cause and effect situation has happened to the WSO's - where the increasing cost served as social proof that there was money (sometimes BIG money) to be made in that forum. It became a chicken and egg issue, and there's definitely no easy way to solve it.

      You do need to understand the typical WSO buyer, at least in my opinion, has changed. Now it is no longer writing a post like this telling your friends about a deal on one of your products. As it was when the WSOs were free to post. Now the 'target market' is often people coming in off-forum via affiliate email promotions. That makes a big difference in 'hype' and how an offer is initially presented.
      I can definitely see how that could be true. It does come back to a sliding scale of business ethics and honesty in marketing though...

      As I'm thinking about it more though, I sort of understand it. The sheer size of this place now means that the "social proof" one gets from being directed here is so strong you can almost "feel" it.

      I have to imagine that drives conversion rates at some level.
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      • Profile picture of the author OutOfThisWord
        It was spring of 2010 when there were massive slaps by Big G, so the noise makers are crowding into where they have access.

        WF is just like any other resource, you have to do your research.

        Still there's probably more sincerity here than when I turn on television news.
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        • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
          Ah, yes. The curious case of the Dr. Frankenstein Syndrome. 'Tis to be expected. You have IMers that have been playing the SEO game for years, have gamed Google's SERPs, established websites on how to make money online, using cheesy, spammy techniques to build their brand (while omitting or only slightly hinting at the fact they make way more money selling 'how to make money online' strategies than they do actually using those strategies for themselves in other niches, exampled from a #1 spot site here:
          As I always make sure to mention in each of my income reports, I'll be the first to admit that a significant [meaning way more than any niche you try your and at using the techniques I outline - nanny, nanny, boo-boo] portion of my income comes as a result of blogging here on The Smart Passive Income Blog), and, well, what do you expect?

          Voila. The conditions of which you speak in the WSO section from people going after people's money who can be borderline desperate as they have figured out the true game of many of these 'gurus' is not in building a niche site like dogdiarrhea.org, but in building a site telling people to go make money with dogdiarrhea.org. And a flood of noobs to sites like this results as well, with questions like, 'how can I make $5,000 in 30 days off of all of this easy money?', unfortunately not understanding that many of these proffered doors have already been closed to new entrants to the game.

          Me, well, I laugh at much of it and then filter this forum for the pearls of wisdom that many drop here.

          And I have seen quite a few.

          Still plenty of great info here, despite the calamity of the monsters born from the keyboards of the Dr. Frankensteins.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    I think it's more friendly to sellers who pay the bills here at WF.

    Still a fairly good place though. Just never set foot in the WSO section. Period.

    I mean ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    This thread really doesn't add much value to the WF, since we're being critical and all
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  • Profile picture of the author payment proof
    There are a ton more people here now. But there is still some great posts and information here as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charlotte Jay
    It was awesome in here when I first discovered the WF. Now the WSO section has kind of gone nuts. I got burned a few times in there. Everytime I go in there I come out feeling like this:

    Old guy going crazy | Best Funny Gifs and Animated Gifs Updated Daily - Gif Bin

    :p

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  • Profile picture of the author Exel
    I may not be an expert on the subject, but I know this - Things Change.

    The best thing someone can do is adapt.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

    Holy cow....you disappear for two years and look what happens...
    You missed two years of my posts.

    But, seriously, have you bought any WSOs? How are you in a position to proclaim quality has dropped?

    This seems to be a drive-by thread.

    One of the reasons why WSO costs have gone up is to up the threshhold that prevents just any-ole-crap from being listed.

    Is it perfect? No.

    But compare the offers here to somewhere else and they are far better.

    Would you prefer a site where it is free to list any ebook? Just imagine the tsunami of junk!

    Every time you see something you think has little value, you can probably keep looking and find something very valuable.

    You do need to understand the typical WSO buyer, at least in my opinion, has changed. Now it is no longer writing a post like this telling your friends about a deal on one of your products. As it was when the WSOs were free to post. Now the 'target market' is often people coming in off-forum via affiliate email promotions. That makes a big difference in 'hype' and how an offer is initially presented.

    But the WSO subforum is just one subforum.

    There is a ton of great of information here.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post


      But, seriously, have you bought any WSOs? How are you in a position to proclaim quality has dropped?

      This seems to be a drive-by thread.
      Exactly.

      So Mike jumps on the forum today for the first time in 2 years, probably buys a WSO that he didn't like, says WSOs are now crap these days, and there's no value in any threads. lol...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        Exactly.

        So Mike jumps on the forum today for the first time in 2 years, probably buys a WSO that he didn't like, says WSOs are now crap these days, and there's no value in any threads. lol...
        That's an interesting leap to a conclusion...darn shame there isn't a shred of truth in it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yildiz
    This forum has been very helpful for me to begin making some money within my first month of Internet Marketing. I have noticed however, that there are many people who are self proclaimed "gurus" and it is really just sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    It was the monkeys man. Everything was fine until the monkeys came...



    Seriously though the forum seems to me to be about what it was two years ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    Here's another "secret" resource I made some time ago: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...2-24-11-a.html

    That'll last you for a while.

    I agree WF isn't what it's used to be. I don't even go to the WSO section anymore. But still, WF is a great place to talk about all things IM and getting the latest news of the industry. Which is pretty much the whole point of this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I think you've been in a time warp,been gone longer than 2 years. WarriorPlus has been around longer than 2 years. 2008 is when this version of the board came along and AwrriorPlus was going strong before then.
    Either way,it has changed dramatically but welcome back!

    "Holy cow....you disappear for two years and look what happens...

    When I last left this place, there was no such thing as Warrior Plus, WSO's were 20 bucks, and the forum seemed to be maturing into the kind of place where smart, effective marketers could share info with each other - with minimal infighting, backstabbing, and other assorted garbage."
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  • Profile picture of the author ericbryant
    I only follow trusted marketers and teachers that I have weeded out through my own process. I don't tune in the noise at all. There is a lot of it. I ignore it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sean Doody
      I quite like this place

      Honestly though. I don't think it's a case of what you should listen to, but who you should listen to.

      Without a doubt there are 'people' in here that are in here for the wrong reasons but from my own experience I can safely say that there are some top notch guys/gals in here that will genuinely try and help you if you need a hand with something.

      As far as wso's go, I think unless you really need a particular bit of software to further your business and after your researching you come across it in the form of a wso, you should just completely steer clear of them. Don't become an information junkie!

      Find out a sustainable, actual business model ( you can do that for free ) and then focus on that. Put your attention into that instead of bad mouthing the WF because you spend too much time on here looking for the magic solution and you're failing to find it :p

      All the best folks,
      Sean


      PS. That ain't aimed at you Mike. I see where you are coming from and I know you're not taking that line with the WF. Just incase you might think I was refering to you. I was refering to alot of the 'giving out' nation in here
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
        Originally Posted by seanthewebguy View Post

        PS. That ain't aimed at you Mike. I see where you are coming from and I know you're not taking that line with the WF. Just incase you might think I was refering to you. I was refering to alot of the 'giving out' nation in here
        Absolutely!

        I love this place. And I mostly just wanted to sort of "take the pulse" and see if I could draw out some reasonable, helpful, well thought out responses, to find out if there was still enough here to make it worth sifting through the noise.

        Happily, that certainly seems to be the case. I plan to be here now more than I've ever been before. (I had another username in the past - search 'nodaclu' - that went back to 2005. So I've dabbled here for a long time.)

        I hope I can get in here and help some people along the way.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sean Doody
          Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

          Absolutely!

          I love this place. And I mostly just wanted to sort of "take the pulse" and see if I could draw out some reasonable, helpful, well thought out responses, to find out if there was still enough here to make it worth sifting through the noise.

          Happily, that certainly seems to be the case. I plan to be here now more than I've ever been before. (I had another username in the past - search 'nodaclu' - that went back to 2005. So I've dabbled here for a long time.)

          I hope I can get in here and help some people along the way.
          Great!!

          So....we'r still friends, lol

          See you around mike/nodaclu

          Sean
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  • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
    And this is your first post after two years? "This place has gone down hill without me". :rolleyes:

    Plenty of amazing still here. Go find it.

    It's not all doom and gloom.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    @Mike,

    It is definitely the case. I get where you are coming from though. After two years the sheer volume of "WTF, really?" comments could seem overwhelming. I think seeing them and knowing who to filter out is very easy though. The scale of the forum (and thus the less than stellar posters) may have gone through the roof the past couple of years, but the amount of quality posters still rose with the times.
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  • Profile picture of the author Green Moon
    I agree that there are certainly nuggets of information buried amidst all the slag, but I find it incredibly difficult and time-consuming to find those nuggets.

    Part of the problem is that a thread can start out with a weak post but take an interesting turn during the course of the thread. The title gives no hint of the value that lies within.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Mike,

      Two years ago the WF had 186,000 members (source: Wayback Machine March 29th 2010). It now has just short of 470,000. That's a phenomenal increase in such a short time.

      A lot of the new membership has been as a result of the affiliate programs of the WSO promotion systems which have exploded over the last 12-18 months or so. This growth has spawned a whole new breed of professional WSOers.

      In that sense, it's a fair point to say that the WSO forum is now quite a different animal from the one that started out as an adjunct to the main discussion board and was seen as a useful, but hardly career-forming, side benefit of membership.

      Nevertheless, there are still many long-standing members who regularly contribute. There are even (Shock! Horror!) members who have been known to go oh, maybe a week or more without being sucked into the WSO forum at all. We manage to find plenty to occupy us in the other sections.

      Of course, a by-product of this recent boom in member numbers has been an inevitable drop in the general quality of debate. That's understandable, given the probable experience level of the majority of newer entrants. It doesn't help matters if successful members with much wisdom to impart decide to stop posting or go away completely.

      So, welcome back. It's important that senior members continue to use their experience and lead by example.

      And you never know; they might even learn a thing or two from the young turks.


      Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        Two years ago the WF had 186,000 members (source: Wayback Machine March 29th 2010). It now has just short of 470,000. That's a phenomenal increase in such a short time.
        Frank,

        What a difference time makes.

        Using the Wayback Machine I dug the following up...

        28982 of 66640 Members have made 937133 posts in 14 forums, with the last post on 12/18/2007 11:53:20 by...

        Active Members: 74 | Anonymous Members: 38 | Guests: 105 || Total: 217
        Active Users Record: 90 | Record Set On: 01/08/2005 at 20:41:34

        Back then I was a heavy lurker and joined a few weeks later.

        Man, this place just rocked your socks off back then. I found it because I was already involved in using the internet for marketing and it was really cool to find a great bunch of folks who shared my passion.


        And then this from today...

        Currently Active Users: 17749 (5213 members and 12536 guests)
        Threads: 366,403, Posts: 4,863,371, Members: 468,999

        Blows my mind...

        ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author jivens
    Banned
    Wso's used to make me excited and think and learn. Now I laugh as I scroll the sales page, literally.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
      Originally Posted by jivens View Post

      Wso's used to make me excited and think and learn. Now I laugh as I scroll the sales page, literally.
      You know, all of this agreement about the current state of the WSO's seems like it's just begging for a solution.

      And no, I don't have one. But it's certainly something worth looking into further.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

        You know, all of this agreement about the current state of the WSO's seems like it's just begging for a solution.

        And no, I don't have one. But it's certainly something worth looking into further.
        I'd say that more than anything else it is just an issue of scale. You have a lot of people joining in a short amount of time. They are all seeing (or being sold the idea) that the WSO section is where the money is at. Naturally they all jump in for a piece of that pie, incorrectly assuming that it is the only pie around.

        It's herd mentality. I've actually put time into trying to think of a creative way to clean things up. Best I could come up with is nuking the subforum; but that doesn't really help. Maybe someone smarter has a solution. If so I'm not sure why they haven't brought it forward.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

        You know, all of this agreement about the current state of the WSO's seems like it's just begging for a solution.

        And no, I don't have one. But it's certainly something worth looking into further.
        Well, there really isn't a solution. There's different perceptions of the WSO market from different people.

        The majority of the customers are the Make Money Online in PJs without any skills or work crowd. They love hype and are easily taken in by wild promises. It is precisely what they are looking for and there's plenty of sellers willing to give them what they want. The problem with that, they can't/don't deliver what they promise and then you just have a bunch of angry newbies thinking they got screwed.

        Then there's people who don't buy into all of that and are looking for valuable information or tools to help them in their businesses. I fall into that category and I am rarely ever disappointed with what I buy.

        I rarely ever buy by going directly to the WSO forum. I buy because someone on the forum that I like and respect a lot has a link in their sig that intrigues me or that I heard so and so just launched this product and it's what I am looking for.

        You'll never stop the dreamers or the people who cater to them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
        Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

        You know, all of this agreement about the current state of the WSO's seems like it's just begging for a solution.

        And no, I don't have one. But it's certainly something worth looking into further.
        Eliminate income claims.

        If Allen did that lots of crap would go bye bye.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Mike Dude, you obviously don't know how to get the best from the forum. Yes the WSO section has changed - for the better I think - i see a lot more professional offers there now. But the rest of the forum? Pretty much the same as it ever was. You just need to know how to find the good bits. Do you have a good look around? You delved into the Offline section or the Copy section for instance? Or do you just get attracted to threads on the main board with titles like "What the heck happened to this place?"
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesdeser
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by jamesdeser View Post

      It's herd mentality. I've actually put time into trying to think of a creative way to clean things up. Best I could come up with is nuking the subforum; but that doesn't really help. Maybe someone smarter has a solution. If so I'm not sure why they haven't brought it forward.A lot of the new membership has been as a result of the affiliate programs of the WSO promotion systems which have exploded over the last 12-18 months or so. This growth has spawned a whole new breed of professional WSOers.

      Watch this one...

      Most of the post is copy-and-paste...

      New member... Commenting on how it has changed over time....

      I was looking for his Image Spam, but I guess he is waiting a couple days to drop it in his signature?

      :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Watch this one...

        Most of the post is copy-and-paste...

        New member... Commenting on how it has changed over time....

        I was looking for his Image Spam, but I guess he is waiting a couple days to drop it in his signature?

        :rolleyes:
        I still can't decide if the strategy makes him smarter or dumber than other spammers. I'll go with dumber, it is usually the safer bet with these guys .
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Watch this one...

        Most of the post is copy-and-paste...

        New member... Commenting on how it has changed over time....

        I was looking for his Image Spam, but I guess he is waiting a couple days to drop it in his signature?

        :rolleyes:
        While we're on the subject... I was reading a WSO thread a couple days ago where the OP had quoted a cookie stuffer and although the CS had been nuked the images were still in the quote doing their dirty deed.

        The lesson is two-fold...check your WSO threads for this garbage, the one I found and reported was weeks old, and DON'T quote someone with broken image links.

        ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Severin
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jamesdeser View Post

      It's herd mentality. I've actually put time into trying to think of a creative way to clean things up. Best I could come up with is nuking the subforum; but that doesn't really help. Maybe someone smarter has a solution. If so I'm not sure why they haven't brought it forward.A lot of the new membership has been as a result of the affiliate programs of the WSO promotion systems which have exploded over the last 12-18 months or so. This growth has spawned a whole new breed of professional WSOers.
      What the heck happened to this place?....This is what happened to this place. I see this more and more every day

      But, there are still little gems of wisdom to be found, you just gotta be prepared to look harder.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Severin View Post

        What the heck happened to this place?....This is what happened to this place. I see this more and more every day

        He is a spammer trying to sneak in on the down-low. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author Severin
          Banned
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          He is a spammer trying to sneak in on the down-low. :p
          My point exactly!
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            Sarcasm and humor aren't the same thing? That explains so many dirty looks over the years...
            Joe, humor is this:
            Sarcasm is this: :rolleyes:

            Seriously though...

            Mike, there's still a lot of good "signal" here, there's just a lot more people making "noise." Finding the good stuff is like riding a bike, you never forget, it just takes a few trips around the block to get back into form.
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            • Profile picture of the author Cali16
              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              Finding the good stuff is like riding a bike, you never forget, it just takes a few trips around the block to get back into form.
              Good analogy, Dennis!

              There's a lot more "litter" on the road these days (always the case when the population rapidly increases)....you just have to watch for it and ride around it.

              But, still a lot of value here.
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  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

    Holy cow....you disappear for two years and look what happens...

    When I last left this place, there was no such thing as ...

    Yes, there was noise, but the signal was still relatively easy to find, and the ratio between the two was tolerable.

    I've come back in recent days, and what I've found is a...

    Where is the Warrior Forum I knew and grew to love going back to 2004? Is it gone? Is it hiding somewhere?

    I want to be wrong, but the changes I see from early 2010 to now look an awful lot like a pure money grab, to the detriment of what was once an amazing place.

    I want to believe there is still some "amazing" left here. If so, where is it?

    -Mike
    But seriously...

    That could be said to be true of the entire Internet, no?

    All success
    Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author xdrange
    There has been more takers than givers on this forum. Unfortunately, I am currently a taker....I would love to become a giver if only I know how...
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  • Profile picture of the author Grace162
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Marian
      Nothing unexpected has happened here.. the forum just "evolves". ..to the wishes of it's runners and members. That's how they want to have it. That's why there are so many shiny and "magic" WSOs... because people buy them.

      People are still interested in finding some super killer hand-off systems that would make them millions without doing anything.. I guess the urge for that is even bigger!

      Marian
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  • Profile picture of the author ChloeCKimberley
    Money grabbers will be money grabbers. :/

    What a bad, negative downward spiral.
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      I've been here 6 years in 3 weeks time...things have changed a lot,

      Pull up a rocking chair and I'll tell you a story...

      I remember a time when a thread could launch an IM career, Lee Mcintyre, Xfactor etc that seems to have almost stopped now (I might have just missed the latest ones). In these threads people gave you their whole system then generally to make it easier they created a WSO with all the info in one place.

      They became successful because they provided value... they were almost accidental marketers.


      Now I see people with hardly any posts trying to sell "a system" as a wso.

      Threads in the WSO section used to be filled with reviews by people who bought the product, now it's filled with people saying i bought 2 minutes ago and I haven't got the product yet or people ranting about a OTO in the WSO.

      There was a time when WSO's used to be unique and diverse.. I wonder how many Pinterest WSO's there have been in the past month?


      There was a time when people thought before they posted, they constructed replies to threads, Now a large percentage of posts seem to be either to promote Blue Felt Kettles in the signature or get enough posts so they can PM you.

      I also see a lot of people posting information that is just plain wrong and posting it as fact.. ok maybe that hasn't changed!


      Ahhhh I remember the days where you'd get a PM and it would be someone asking you to give a bit of clarification about something you posted... Now 8 times out of 10 it's someone wanting you to promote their WSO.

      There are still some great member here who post insightful posts but the signal to noise ratio is much higher.

      I do admit to being part of the problem, a few years back i would happily post a lot of my data and research here for free, now I tend to post it elsewhere.

      I wish I had a solution,
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      • Profile picture of the author Nick Lotter
        I quite enjoyed reading this post. While I've been a member of the forum for almost 3 years now, I wouldn't consider myself a seasoned warrior member by a long shot compared to the senior warriors around here; but a lot of what Mr Thompson said rings true from what I can remember when I first joined.

        However, to add my say to the topic, that doesn't necessarily mean to say that any of the value the forum had 3 or 6 years ago is lost. Its still here. Its been mentioned before that one can search thread titles and threads posted by respected members etc, but I would like to add that a great feature I have used a lot to find quality info on here is the thread ratings feature.

        In the main forum, use the option at the bottom to sort the threads according to thread rating, in descending order. I used this for the first time about a year ago and I was astounded at what I was able to dig up. Really powerful and valuable shares contributed freely by forum members that are waiting on page 76 or whatever for you to find them.

        I still use that feature every now and then.

        Originally Posted by M Thompson View Post

        I do admit to being part of the problem, a few years back i would happily post a lot of my data and research here for free, now I tend to post it elsewhere.

        I wish I had a solution,
        This is really sad but probably true for a lot of the senior warriors, who the rest of us look up to and whose advice we need and appreciate.

        The War Room was created to be a place for sharing things like the kind of research and data sharing that Mr Thompson is talking about here, and I'm glad I still get great value from that forum. But I do think it can be used more often, and should not just be something people join only to be able to have the right to publish WSO's.

        Just my 2 cents


        Originally Posted by M Thompson View Post

        I've been here 6 years in 3 weeks time...things have changed a lot,

        Pull up a rocking chair and I'll tell you a story...

        I remember a time when a thread could launch an IM career, Lee Mcintyre, Xfactor etc that seems to have almost stopped now (I might have just missed the latest ones). In these threads people gave you their whole system then generally to make it easier they created a WSO with all the info in one place.

        They became successful because they provided value... they were almost accidental marketers.


        Now I see people with hardly any posts trying to sell "a system" as a wso.

        Threads in the WSO section used to be filled with reviews by people who bought the product, now it's filled with people saying i bought 2 minutes ago and I haven't got the product yet or people ranting about a OTO in the WSO.

        There was a time when WSO's used to be unique and diverse.. I wonder how many Pinterest WSO's there have been in the past month?


        There was a time when people thought before they posted, they constructed replies to threads, Now a large percentage of posts seem to be either to promote Blue Felt Kettles in the signature or get enough posts so they can PM you.

        I also see a lot of people posting information that is just plain wrong and posting it as fact.. ok maybe that hasn't changed!


        Ahhhh I remember the days where you'd get a PM and it would be someone asking you to give a bit of clarification about something you posted... Now 8 times out of 10 it's someone wanting you to promote their WSO.

        There are still some great member here who post insightful posts but the signal to noise ratio is much higher.

        I do admit to being part of the problem, a few years back i would happily post a lot of my data and research here for free, now I tend to post it elsewhere.

        I wish I had a solution,
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Mike,

    2 Years out and no party? WTF? Haven't you read the #543 Memo? Dude, you need to arrange that party asap - otherwise you might get another 2 year probation!

    Heads up Mike!!
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisrizzo
    I'm a long time marketer and site developer (about 15 years), and from the beginning thought of online in terms of marketing goals, usability, and opportunity. However, with the exception of some niche forums, I've generally only visited WarriorForum and similar large forums when I needed an answer to a question. I've recently decided to start monitoring and joining some discussion on this forum because I want to see, understand, and contribute to what people are discussing in terms of a few different marketing opportunities online. My initial impression is that most threads are thin on information, and there's quite a bit of snide remarks and disrespect. But, I'm still planning on keeping at it and hopefully getting and contributing some value in the forum. If not I'll look elsewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post


    Yes, there was noise, but the signal was still relatively easy to find, and the ratio between the two was tolerable.

    You could help in improving the signal to noise ratio by starting threads such as this one in the Off Topic Forum instead of in the Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum.
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    :)

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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

      You could help in improving the signal to noise ratio by starting threads such as this one in the Off Topic Forum instead of in the Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum.
      No way. They're talking about stuff like puppies down there. Don't kill the good vibes!
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      • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        No way. They're talking about stuff like puppies down there. Don't kill the good vibes!
        I understand. Then what the Warrior Forum needs is a "Bitching, Complaining, and Rants" subforum.
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        :)

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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

          I understand. Then what the Warrior Forum needs is a "Bitching, Complaining, and Rants" subforum.
          I thought that's what the SEO subforum was for...:confused:

          ~Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            I thought that's what the SEO subforum was for...:confused:

            ~Bill
            I'm out of thanks but that can't go unnoticed. Thanks Bill.
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            Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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        • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
          Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

          I understand. Then what the Warrior Forum needs is a "Bitching, Complaining, and Rants" subforum.
          Hmm... I thought we were posting exactly there
          :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

          I understand. Then what the Warrior Forum needs is a "Bitching, Complaining, and Rants" subforum.
          I'd be all for it if it would keep the whiners out of the other forums.
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          Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            I'd be all for it if it would keep the whiners out of the other forums.

            While we are on the topic, I have a bridge in New York City available for purchase. If you are interested, contact me by PM.
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            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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          • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
            Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

            I understand. Then what the Warrior Forum needs is a "Bitching, Complaining, and Rants" subforum.
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            I'd be all for it if it would keep the whiners out of the other forums.
            I agree with that.

            I was on another huge forum years ago and that was happening so much and taking so much of the moderators time, they just added the Rant sub forum.

            It really helped. Keeps it out of the rest of the forum and those who just want to complain get to do it all the time in there. It is actually kind of funny.

            Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

            Eliminate income claims.

            If Allen did that lots of crap would go bye bye.
            With all the legal and governmental changes, that may be required in the near future anyway.
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            44 days in and we broke the $10K a month recurring bench mark.

            Guaranteed 60% Opt In Rate Traffic-Real People-Fresh Today-High Quality Biz Opp traffic![/URL]
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            • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
              Much like a herd of zombies, no amount of engineering--social and otherwise--is enough to hold it back as a community becomes too large and enticing a target.

              If the pattern holds, someone has already started developing a new place in the hope that they can avoid the fate of all communities. Not going to happen, but it'll be fun while it lasts.

              There's still some good information flowing by here, but it can be hard to find.
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              Free Guide (seriously; no upsells): Legit ways to make money online
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    It would be the most used subforum on the entire internet!
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