Is spinning well and truly dead?

46 replies
Hi All,

I was just wondering if it can be confirmed once and for all that spinning in all its forms is dead? Does well spun articles and posts now offer no value whatsoever in terms of Google's listing? Does Google only credit content that is 100% unique?

Cheers,
Seamy
#dead #spinning
  • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
    Well, if the spun content reads well and is 100% unique from the original, then it doesn't matter, does it.

    A spin is only like a re-write using automation to speed the process up but to get a decent result it does need to be used with thought and the user needs to take time to re-read and make it good afterwards.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    There's no such thing as 100% unique.

    Why would a person care if you spun the article if it is informative and well written?

    Google cares about removing crap content that is just to trick them.
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author JeremiahSay
    These are threads that might help you understand article spinning better:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-articles.html

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...necessary.html

    Read Alexa Smith posts Kudos,

    Jeremiah
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  • Profile picture of the author jolarry
    A good spin is good!It's just a tool, if you use it well there are no problems.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jolarry View Post

      A good spin is good!
      No; this is wrong. It isn't "good" in any way: it's a complete waste of time.

      Originally Posted by jolarry View Post

      if you use it well there are no problems.
      There are also no benefits, though!

      There are plenty of people who imagine they're getting "benefits" from it, but that's just because of misattributed causation: they're all people who don't quite appreciate that they could actually have got exactly the same benefits without the spinning.

      (Either that or they're promoting spinning software/services, of course: the voice of reason will always be drowned by the voice of commercial interest.)

      Once you stop confusing "duplicate content" with "syndicated content", and stop confusing "original content" with "unique content", and realise that the value of any backlink on any page of the web doesn't depend on and isn't influenced by whether the content to which it's attached has been "spun", it actually becomes easy to understand.

      If anyone's interested, I can suggest six items to read, which offer insight into this subject ...

      (i) This post explains the benefits of spinning;

      (ii) This post, and its links, explain how article directories really work and why they exist;

      (iii) The first half (or so) of this thread contains a good discussion of what you can gain from spinning articles;

      (iv) The advice on this subject given by so many people throughout most of this thread has been really helpful to many people here;

      (v) On the meaning and significance of "duplicate content", in this context, this little post from expert article marketer Anne Pottinger includes direct quotations from Google's WebMaster Central Blog on the subject (not easy to find a more authoritative source than that!);

      (vi) This little article is also a very useful and accurate explanation of the subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author PLR Basket
    Spinning is completely useless. Always was and always will be. It's all about user experience, not whether the content is original or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    I use spun content on properties used for link building only. I do not use it on any sites meant for actual readers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    All I can say is, spinning SHOULD be dead

    Why spend so much time building "fake" authority and "artificial" banklinks, when you could be spending that time developing REAL authority in your niche, with people WANTING to link back to you?

    Oh yes, that's right. Too much time and effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author stephanreek
    I think it is oke if u spin it but doesn't make it look like its spinned, when you automatically spin an article you can see that it is spun with software. I use magic article rewriter because this article spinner just speeds up the proces of you manually spinning and immoderately make it look like you wrote it yourself!
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  • Profile picture of the author prasanth5
    I think so. This can be inferred from the reaction of people that outsource freelance work. They are scared of spun material. I think Google has cast a spell on people and made them more conscious of what they are writing and outsourcing!
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  • Profile picture of the author jolarry
    The spin can alter the structure of a text. In my opinion it may be useful in an SEO strategy. (like directory desc ...)
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Originally Posted by seamy82 View Post


    I was just wondering if it can be confirmed once and for all that spinning in all its forms is dead?
    Nope Seamy, that cannot yet be confirmed and probably never will be :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Charlotte Jay
    "There's no such thing as 100% unique."

    When it comes to what content? spinning?

    As an avid writer, I pride myself on creating one of a kind content that's informative, useful and that doesn't set off the "spam alarms" I loathe when people ask me if I will create content that can be spun or have syntax placed in them.
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  • Profile picture of the author DonHastie
    Spinning won't die while there are people wanting to a quick fix to a perceived problem. If all you want are articles that don't read well then use spinning... if you want to drive real traffic then make sure your content is 100% all the time.

    Plain spinning doesn't create that.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Re: Is whining well and truly dead?

    I wouldn't count on it.
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author seamy82
    My spun articles read perfectly and they are spun up to 100% for 20 copies. I hate the way everyone prattles on about user experience as if they are saying something profound. You can have a website with great user experience and have manual backlinks that do the same and it may not equate to a top listing. You need to find a medium between quality and quantity but if the spun content is going to be given no value by Google, I'll not bother. To get 20 really good spun articles takes the same amount of time to write 5 unique articles. I'll just give up on spinning as it is not worth the effort in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author thetrafficguy
    If your intention is to get ranked in Google then its DEAD!
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    • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
      I don't use spinning in any form and never have. I know of people that do however and we have always disagreed about this. I don't think spun articles ever read well.
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      My Internet Marketing Blog - Warts And All!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Ok, I'm gonna step into the middle of this because I think people are making massive generalisations based on differing versions of what they think people use spinning for.

    To those that come from the position of "Spinning sucks and is a waste of time and always has been - you should never do it!" I have to disagree.

    Not because I don't think crap unreadable content sucks - I do (of course) but because there are many uses for spinning content - NOT just related to links or getting other people's websites to publish your content, or to trick Google into thinking the same article is now a different article.

    I've said this before but people seem to lump whatever their most negative perception of using spinners is into how everyone must be using them.

    Here's how I use them - you tell me if this is what you're so against.....

    I have one domain where I publish all the content that I create and I then feed it out to the relevant sites I have across many hosts.

    I often consider both readers and search engines when creating content, so if I can give a reader what they want and make the search engines happy - then I do that.

    One example of this is where I might be looking to create some content focused on a particular keyword/phrase (for example "toilet training your labradoodle") - this would be for content on a labradoodle information website.

    Now, if I find out that the same information applies to toilet training Great Danes and I have a Great Dane website, and it seems that this will probably apply to quite a few other dog breeds, all of which I have separate websites for - I will create a spinnable version of my original article, so that I can swap out the dog breeds and feed the relevant version to the relevant website.

    In this way I can provide a readable, relevant, SEO'd article that feeds 50 of my separate websites and saves me having to rewrite it every time I create a new dog website where it would be appropriate.

    So - I love spinning articles and I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with how I'm using them.

    They're definitely not creating crap. They're not creating a poor reader experience. They are helping in several ways both in saving me time and helping to quickly get seo'd content to new sites.

    Please tell me if I'm missing something - but why would I NOT use spinners for this type of application? (and this is just one of the ways I like to use them).

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author rooze
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Ok, I'm gonna step into the middle of this because I think people are making massive generalisations based on differing versions of what they think people use spinning for.

      To those that come from the position of "Spinning sucks and is a waste of time and always has been - you should never do it!" I have to disagree.

      Not because I don't think crap unreadable content sucks - I do (of course) but because there are many uses for spinning content - NOT just related to links or getting other people's websites to publish your content, or to trick Google into thinking the same article is now a different article.

      I've said this before but people seem to lump whatever their most negative perception of using spinners is into how everyone must be using them.

      Here's how I use them - you tell me if this is what you're so against.....

      I have one domain where I publish all the content that I create and I then feed it out to the relevant sites I have across many hosts.

      I often consider both readers and search engines when creating content, so if I can give a reader what they want and make the search engines happy - then I do that.

      One example of this is where I might be looking to create some content focused on a particular keyword/phrase (for example "toilet training your labradoodle") - this would be for content on a labradoodle information website.

      Now, if I find out that the same information applies to toilet training Great Danes and I have a Great Dane website, and it seems that this will probably apply to quite a few other dog breeds, all of which I have separate websites for - I will create a spinnable version of my original article, so that I can swap out the dog breeds and feed the relevant version to the relevant website.

      In this way I can provide a readable, relevant, SEO'd article that feeds 50 of my separate websites and saves me having to rewrite it every time I create a new dog website where it would be appropriate.

      So - I love spinning articles and I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with how I'm using them.

      They're definitely not creating crap. They're not creating a poor reader experience. They are helping in several ways both in saving me time and helping to quickly get seo'd content to new sites.

      Please tell me if I'm missing something - but why would I NOT use spinners for this type of application? (and this is just one of the ways I like to use them).

      Andy
      I've done a similar exercise where I've had to make content regionally specific, for example with 50 US States. But remember, you can't change the dog breed, or in my case the State, using the spinner. It won't change all occurrences on the same page, so you'll have a page with a mix of breed names after it's spun. But you can change the content then do a simple find/replace after the article is spun (your software may be capable of changing [all words equal to]....so if that's the case what I've just said wouldn't apply).

      Regardless, the finished product is very useful to the reader, is well written and of a grammatical standard equivalent to the original, and the time taken to create it is far shorter than hand-writing 50 articles from scratch.

      Anyway, I share your frustration with getting a simple point across on this place at times. People just keep saying the same negative things even after they've had more than one person point out the positives.

      Of course, the vast majority of people who use spinners create an end product which is garbage and unfit to be published, I don't argue with that. But the overwhelmingly negative statistic doesn't preclude some legitimate uses. Or at least it shouldn't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Ok, I'm gonna step into the middle of this because I think people are making massive generalisations based on differing versions of what they think people use spinning for.

      To those that come from the position of "Spinning sucks and is a waste of time and always has been - you should never do it!" I have to disagree.

      Not because I don't think crap unreadable content sucks - I do (of course) but because there are many uses for spinning content - NOT just related to links or getting other people's websites to publish your content, or to trick Google into thinking the same article is now a different article.

      I've said this before but people seem to lump whatever their most negative perception of using spinners is into how everyone must be using them.

      Here's how I use them - you tell me if this is what you're so against.....

      I have one domain where I publish all the content that I create and I then feed it out to the relevant sites I have across many hosts.

      I often consider both readers and search engines when creating content, so if I can give a reader what they want and make the search engines happy - then I do that.

      One example of this is where I might be looking to create some content focused on a particular keyword/phrase (for example "toilet training your labradoodle") - this would be for content on a labradoodle information website.

      Now, if I find out that the same information applies to toilet training Great Danes and I have a Great Dane website, and it seems that this will probably apply to quite a few other dog breeds, all of which I have separate websites for - I will create a spinnable version of my original article, so that I can swap out the dog breeds and feed the relevant version to the relevant website.

      In this way I can provide a readable, relevant, SEO'd article that feeds 50 of my separate websites and saves me having to rewrite it every time I create a new dog website where it would be appropriate.

      So - I love spinning articles and I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with how I'm using them.

      They're definitely not creating crap. They're not creating a poor reader experience. They are helping in several ways both in saving me time and helping to quickly get seo'd content to new sites.

      Please tell me if I'm missing something - but why would I NOT use spinners for this type of application? (and this is just one of the ways I like to use them).

      Andy
      Couldn't have said it better myself, Andy. So many people are quick to dismiss a technology altogether, simply because they don't understand the proper ways to use that technology (and with regards to "article spinning", I would guess that at least 95% of the people that spin articles are NOT doing it in a way that would be even remotely beneficial to them).

      But those of us who actually do it the right way (as you do) understand the true value of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charlotte Jay
    Andy,
    I have no issue with what you are doing with spun articles. I just take issue with those people who spin and spin and spin and spin content until it's utter rubbish and consequently splash it across every domain they have in their arsenal. Spinning is not great for all applications, but I think what you're using for is a very good idea indeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Andy, good point. That's certainly a great use of spun articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
    I think the market for highly spun garbage has been dead for a long time now. And even more so with Google Panda and all the other changes being made. No longer is it just going to be "content is king" now it's "QUALITY content is king". IMO
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
    Spinning is definitely sh*tty now. It's such a low quality low reward thing...you could do SO much better with syndication and writing quality stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Awesome spinning is creating twenty two content quality unique time and time again. I recommend it to everyone high and low searching for a cheat.

    Wow, can't even make myself write stupid enough to get a bad enough "spun looking" comment :rolleyes:.
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    • Profile picture of the author rooze
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post


      Wow, can't even make myself write stupid enough to get a bad enough "spun looking" comment :rolleyes:.
      No, you succeeded.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        GuyGuyGentlemanMalePerson, it is difficult to think you will findyou'll findyou will findyou'll findyou'll uncoveryou will find really peoplefolksmales and ladiespersonsconsumers availableavailableavailable on the marketaroundto select fromaround who do not adore spinning. They cannot begin to see the incredibleamazingawesomeastounding high quality and just howand the wayand exactly howand how it could develop your companysmall companyyour companyyour business. I do not comprehend peoplefolksmales and ladiespersonsconsumers similar to this
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Wow, can't even make myself write stupid enough to get a bad enough "spun looking" comment :rolleyes:.

      Drinking games might help. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Drinking games might help. :p
        Still kind of buzzed and can't do it. I just thought of a great WF drinking game though. Take a shot every time you see the word "dead" or any variation of the word in a thread title.*

        *Neither the Warrior Forum nor game creator Joe Robinson is responsible for any alcohol poisoning that occurs due to playing this game.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Curtis
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Awesome spinning is creating twenty two content quality unique time and time again. I recommend it to everyone high and low searching for a cheat.

      Wow, can't even make myself write stupid enough to get a bad enough "spun looking" comment :rolleyes:.
      Laugh out loud funny...
      Signature

      The world is quite ruthless in selecting between the dream and the reality, even where we will not. Between the wish and the thing the world lies waiting. -- Cormac McCarthy

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  • Profile picture of the author phuzzled
    I'm with Bill_Z, I use with it properties and when I do use spinning, it is in sentence or paragraph spintex. Word for word you are going to mostly end up with crap, however take the time and you can make something that reads perfectly fine, and does hold value (despite popular belief)... but again that is at sentence/paragraph level - not on my money sites...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I am {confused|mystified|nonplussed|bewildered}. Can {someone|anyone|one of you} {please|kindly} {explain|detail|outline} {just what|exactly what|what the heck} {spinning|spun content} is? {Thanks|Thank you|Much appreciated|I'd appreciate it|Thanks in advance|You smell like a duck}!
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      Salutations and permutations for a most well-writing commentary of duck avian subject. I have bookmarked for future reverence.
      I didn't think anyone would notice if I slipped that in there. :p
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      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author UMS
    Change 'spinning' to something like 'WordPress', then you can make huge generalisations like:

    Is WordPress well and truly dead?

    There are so many poor quality and spammy WordPress sites, so WordPress provides no value and should die.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeraldNitram
    I think one of the main reasons why people think spinning is bad is because of the confusion of unique content with original content. I'm not going against Alexa Smith here; in fact, I totally agree with her point of view on spun articles. But I do have a question about that matter, though.

    What if I have an article that I haven't posted anywhere on the Internet, and use a spinner just to replace some of the words and check if it makes a lot more sense?
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  • Profile picture of the author tweettweet
    Those automated spinning tools make article spinning look bad, especially if grammar, choice of words, spelling, and punctuation are not checked after the process. I am not spinning articles should be banned. I do not see anything wrong when writers use spinning tools but I suggest proofreading and editing the article after spinning it.
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  • Profile picture of the author theemperor
    Selling spinners is dead! Ha ha
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    The spinner is dead, long live the spinner!
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Don't worry, when something in IM dies, somebody usually comes up with a Version 2.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cecil Dee
    Information overload has become a big problem in the Internet marketing community; there are many newbie Internet marketers that are having a hard time trying to keep up with information and taking action on it. Just like separating wheat from chaff, it is critical to your survival to apply that thinking to information. However, there is much more that can be done, and that is the purpose of this article - so continue reading.

    One thing in particular that we all face as online marketers is information overload, and it truly can be a serious impediment. For years it has been very noticeable that trying to maintain an even par with the reams of data has approached the impossible. We bet everyone, or most, have realized they need to be mindful about not being so distracted. If you've been in the Internet marketing field even for a while now, you should know how confusing things can get if you don't manage your information inflow well enough. If you have struggled with information overload, then we feel your pain and have a few excellent suggestions for you.

    It is the pioneers who try things, learn from them and then teach others via information mediums. Of course it all relates to what you do and how much you read, but eventually it can and will get out of hand if it is not already at that point. The stark reality of behavior is that most people read so much and actually try what they read. One thing you can do, immediately, is finish this article and give serious thought about how to implement in your existing business affairs.


    The three paragraphs above are taken from the 1st paragraph of a spun article. I hit the spin button 3 times and got what you see above.

    I'm not sure why people feel this way but I hear it all the time. Why is it people discredit spinning? If anything isn't done correctly the results can end up bad. Essentially I'm saying that you could write a horrible article and publish it that everyone hates or you could spin an article really badly that reads like garbage. The same holds true for the other side of the coin, you could spin an article that reads perfectly with every spin or you could write an article that reads like a dream that everyone loves. Does one thing have to always be bad and the other one great? Isn't it true people will have a natural inclination to advocate spinning if that's how they earn their money, or advocate not spinning if they earn their money only writing articles or don't like writing spin articles? If I'm wrong, anybody (newbie, veteran or in between) please chime in and show me the light but don't get that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Cecil Dee View Post

      Why is it people discredit spinning?
      Because as it's used by most people, most of the time, it has no benefits, for all the irrefutable reasons listed, illustrated and referenced in post #6 above.

      With a very few, very specific, very rare exceptions (such as the one exemplified by Rooze above), the benefits that people claim for that content are benefits they could have got by doing everything exactly the same and simply missing out the spinning stage. Typically, they mistakenly imagine that the fact that the spun content hasn't yet been published somehow accrues some additional benefit, and the reality is that it just doesn't.

      It's simply a fallacy of misattributed causation.

      I don't care whether you can spin articles and get perfectly acceptable, usable content out of it (and I know you can, with enough time and effort: I've done it myself): it's still perfectly acceptable content that has no additional benefits arising from the fact that it's been spun.

      Everything you say in the post above is entirely valid and correct; the problem, in this context, is that none of it is a defense, validation or justification for spinning.

      Originally Posted by sackboy127 View Post

      Great for backlinking purposes.
      This is just nonsense. It's exactly the same "for backlinking purposes" as if it hadn't been spun at all: the content of the article having been spun does not somehow, magically, improve the linkjuice of the backlink(s) attached to it. It's pure fiction.
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  • Profile picture of the author sackboy127
    You need manual spinning and not only on the word- but on the sentence-level as well. This way there are more variations, and the article remains mostly readable. Great for backlinking purposes.
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