Article Mass Submitting Is A Complete Waste Of Time And Money - And This Is Why You Shouldn't Do It

110 replies
I wouldn't mass submit articles if I were you.

There's nothing really wrong with doing it, but it is now a waste of your ever-shrinking time and your hard-earned money.

You can take my word for it, or you can do your own research to verify what I am saying here. I encourage anyone to respond with their thoughts.

Times change - Rules change. Google does not sit around and leave everything open for tricking them into thinking your article is better than someone else's. Google does not like being tricked or having their algorithms taken advantage of.

While some do not think mass submission is tricking or taking advantage of Google - THEY think it is - so it is.

So let me explain why I think it is a waste of time and money, for reasons other than what I have discussed above.

Some say not to mass submit because of a duplicate content penalty. Well, there is no duplicate content penalty, so you don't need to concern yourself with that at all. More info on that here...

http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/allen-graves/1346-real-story-about-google-duplicate-content-google-duplicate-content.html

Now, on to the fact that you want to populate the internet with the same information 80 million times.

When the Google spiders find duplicate content on more than one domain, they will group all of those pages into a virtual "bucket." Then they analyze all of the pages in the bucket and decide which ONE they are going to display in the SERPs - and this is all separate from the algorithm which decides where you will actually rank in the SERPs for your keyword phrases.

The bucket is re-analyzed at different intervals.

So this again raises the question...why would you waste your time and money by submitting to 50,000 different websites when Google is only going to display one of them when all is said and done?

My clients have their own customized list of places to submit their articles for each niche. They submit to around 15 different websites per article/niche. For article directories, you have to ask Google which ones you should submit to and submit to about 6 or 8 of them. "Ask Google" means that you have to sit down and do your due diligence.

Like I said above, Google is only going to display one of the results in the SERPs - so why submit to 15 different places, why not just one? Well, it's a very long story, but in a nutshell, by submitting to the 15 sites for your niche, you are increasing the chances of getting a higher ranking AND you are maximizing your chances of getting direct traffic (as opposed to organic search traffic) to your article page from well-trafficed sites, all WHILE keeping your time investment at a manageable level.

This allows you to focus on things which are more important than the actual submission process.

Think about it and do what you think is best. Many of you already know that what works for one article may not work for another. So testing is extremely important. But there are things that can be pretty much generic across the board - this being one of them.

...at least for now.

Respectfully,
Allen Graves
#article #complete #mass #money #submitting #time #waste
  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    Most do it for the purposes of back links.
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Oh yea, I forgot to mention the backlinks for the articles stuck in the bucket.

      Thanks...

      I see no evidence that backlinks from all those articles in the "bucket" are being counted by Google at all.

      If anyone does have proof of it (after January 1st 2009) please let me know.

      Respectfully,
      Allen Graves
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      • Profile picture of the author netstrife
        Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

        Oh yea, I forgot to mention the backlinks for the articles stuck in the bucket.

        Thanks...

        I see no evidence that backlinks from all those articles in the "bucket" are being counted by Google at all.

        If anyone does have proof of it (after January 1st 2009) please let me know.

        Respectfully,
        Allen Graves
        Do a simple test between two sites each targeting an extremely low competition keyword (say under 10K results in google) and promote one via submission to only one site, and the other mass submitting to different sites. I can guarantee in the majority of cases the site being promoted via "mass submission" will rank ahead especially if the domain is already well established.

        Services like 1waylinks.net and traffic kahuna allow spinning but most people just submit the same article to a variety of high quality blogs and get extremely good results.
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        • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
          Originally Posted by netstrife View Post

          Do a simple test between two sites each targeting an extremely low competition keyword (say under 10K results in google) and promote one via submission to only one site, and the other mass submitting to different sites. I can guarantee in the majority of cases the site being promoted via "mass submission" will rank ahead especially if the domain is already well established.

          Services like 1waylinks.net and traffic kahuna allow spinning but most people just submit the same article to a variety of high quality blogs and get extremely good results.
          I have, bro. And in the past this was correct. I study this stuff for hours every day...that's my job (and I love it!).

          But since January 1st, I wouldn't guarantee anything.

          Like I said, you can take my word for it, or you can do your own research to verify what I am saying here. Things change - It would be an eye-opening test for anyone, I'm sure.

          AL
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          • Profile picture of the author radhika
            Allen, May be you have a point. But submitting articles to different directories bring *VISITORS*.

            WHO CARES IF GOOGLE PRESENTS ONLY ONE RESULT AS LONG AS OTHER ARTICLE DIRECTORIES SENDS ME COUPLE OF VISTORS?

            I see it as vistors. Person1 who goes to an article directory may not go to few directories that I restrict myself to those.

            Google knows duplicate content and same articles can be seen on many websites and it knows to filter them. No worries about it. But still submitting to article directories can be done, I guess in terms of vistors.

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
              Originally Posted by radhika View Post

              Allen, May be you have a point. But submitting articles to different directories bring *VISITORS*.

              WHO CARES IF GOOGLE PRESENTS ONLY ONE RESULT AS LONG AS OTHER ARTICLE DIRECTORIES SENDS ME COUPLE OF VISTORS?

              I see it as vistors. Person1 who goes to an article directory may not go to few directories that I restrict myself to those.

              You are exactly right. That's why we submit to around 6-8 directories. It brings the direct traffic in and keeps the time investment at a minimum. Honestly, how many hits a day do you get from those other thousand directories.

              I own 4 article directories and I know how much direct traffic is sent from visitors that did not find the article page from a search engine. It isn't many!

              AL
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              • Profile picture of the author radhika
                Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

                Honestly, how many hits a day do you get from those other thousand directories.

                AL
                I sure gets visitors from those sites. But not like search engines traffic. I totally agree with it.

                But some of my TTC sales are from these visitors from my articles on different directories.

                (I will follow my stats in next 2 weeks and post it here )

                .
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    • Profile picture of the author theyoungmarketer
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      • Profile picture of the author Sticky Articles
        Originally Posted by theyoungmarketer View Post

        I do mass submission to around 6,000 article sites that are linked straight to capture pages.

        That's it but for getting better SERPS, I just submit to 20 directories.

        I've done submissions to 400 directories and gotten over 100 links back for a client and it definitely has made a significant difference in rankings.

        So I would say that the directories DO make a difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Malachi Kelly
      Originally Posted by [LEFT

      Marhelper
      [/left];533234]Most do it for the purposes of back links.
      There is not much point to use mass article submission in your backlink strategy.

      The reason for this is if you want to increase PR you need to place links on site's which have PR and allow Dofollow.

      The way PR is shared is if a Webpage has a PR3 and 10 outgoing links, your link would get 10% of the PR.

      The problem with mass article submission is generally a lot of the pages where your articles appear have a PR0, which produces no link love

      Don't get me wrong, mass article submission can still drive traffic to your site but you time and effort can be spent more wisely looking for link partners with high PR.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrsteady
    Nice post Allen.

    Makes me sleep a little easier at night solely submitting my content to ezine. I have been getting good results too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yskho
    I submit my original articles to ezinearticle and "shorten version" or changeat least 30% of the original contents and of course with different headline to other major article directories ...

    I totally agree with the point sending to thousands the only advantage is getting "direct traffic", but for me , it is A LOTS of extra free traffic
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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      • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        If this is the case, why do I get the same article on different sites in my search results quite often? I have had times where I'll get five results on the first page, all from different sites, but the article is exactly the same. Is it just that Google hasn't filtered those pages into their "bucket" yet?

        Tina G
        I took this particular information directly from the Google Webmaster Help, blogs and groups.

        Are you doing the search in quotes?

        I cannot say why - But give it a couple of weeks. They'll most likely be gone.

        Every time someone shows me this scenario, it has never lasted more than a few days (or the search was done with quotes).

        Think about it - why would Google want the same information on the first page of their results over and over again? Truth is, they don't. They've said it many times.

        Can you PM me the search term? I'd love to take a look.

        AL
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      • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
        Well maybe this is true with Google...

        And for those that choose to "live and die" by Google, so be it.

        Yes, those "other" search engines matter too, and we'd be a fool to ignore them.

        Since EZA seems to be the "king" directory, I'm sure they want us to believe this as well.

        But search engines don't buy products... People do.

        Article submission is about driving visitors to your site to buy something in most cases.

        If I tormented about what the "G" thinks too much, I'd be making less then half the money...

        Just my 2
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        • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
          Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

          Well maybe this is true with Google...

          And for those that choose to "live and die" by Google, so be it.

          Yes, those "other" search engines matter too, and we'd be a fool to ignore them.

          Since EZA seems to be the "king" directory, I'm sure they want us to believe this as well.

          But search engines don't buy products... People do.

          Article submission is about driving visitors to your site to buy something in most cases.

          If I tormented about what the "G" thinks too much, I'd be making less then half the money...

          Just my 2

          Straight talkin' sense at it's finest right here ^^ ^^....

          Now...

          @Allen...

          If it takes me (not saying mass article submission is my gig but..), twenty minutes to mass submit to a bazillion directories for some bursts of traffic over time that will continue to pull and develop, outside of my usual traffic generation strategies......

          How can you tell me it's a waste of my time?...

          I understand your thoughts, and if I was an article directory owner, I'd be saying the same thing

          Google doesn't own my sites.. and the internet is NOT a place to populate with the same content 80 million times, the internet is a medium by which individual sites are found... it isn't one big place, it's a collection of individual places.. different people go to different places.. different site, different eyes, different traffic which in turn contains REAL people who will respond to VERY different things...

          The same thing said a different way (or in a different place, see note about places above) will resonate on a higher or lower level accordingly based on the receptiveness of the individual who is reading it.


          People take actions online when they feel comfortable doing so.. if those peeps need my content to be served at their favourite directory.. then you can guaranDAMNtee that my content is waiting for them

          Just Sayin'

          Peace

          Jay

          p.s. Although this IS just my opinion. Albeit a tried and tested one, my time is precious..I don't often waste it
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          Bare Murkage.........

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          • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
            Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

            @Allen...

            If it takes me (not saying mass article submission is my gig but..), twenty minutes to mass submit to a bazillion directories for some bursts of traffic over time that will continue to pull and develop, outside of my usual traffic generation strategies......

            How can you tell me it's a waste of my time?...

            I understand your thoughts, and if I was an article directory owner, I'd be saying the same thing

            Google doesn't own my sites.. and the internet is NOT a place to populate with the same content 80 million times, the internet is a medium by which individual sites are found... it isn't one big place, it's a collection of individual places.. different people go to different places.. different site, different eyes, different traffic which in turn contains REAL people who will respond to VERY different things...

            The same thing said a different way (or in a different place, see note about places above) will resonate on a higher or lower level accordingly based on the receptiveness of the individual who is reading it.


            People take actions online when they feel comfortable doing so.. if those peeps need my content to be served at their favourite directory.. then you can guaranDAMNtee that my content is waiting for them

            Just Sayin'

            Peace

            Jay

            p.s. Although this IS just my opinion. Albeit a tried and tested one, my time is precious..I don't often waste it
            Hi Jay,

            Don't forget that I am not just an article directory owner...I am also an article marketer and have been since long before I created my directories.

            I don't look at things like a CEO - I am kind of a morphed-up hybrid kind of guy.

            I am watching and testing things every day while I stare out my back window at the Florida woods. While I have not tested any of the mass-submission services in a while, I can rarely find someone who will show me proof that they are worth the time and energy. Very rarely...like twice, and that was before January 1st.

            It's true that the Internet is made up of a bunch of individual places, but (if you are using the right keywords) you are fooling yourself to think that you are making any extra money by mass-submitting vs. concentrating on getting your article at the top of the search engines for the right keyphrases, the difference is frankly unbelievable!

            So I guess it really comes down to whether you believe you will gain more conversions from the one visitor you'll get a day from mass-submission, or the hundreds you can get from an article on the first page of Google...and the time spent doing it.

            From what I see every day regarding article page traffic: a first page Google ranking will outperform any other website's direct traffic...short of being on the first page of an authority site.

            True you may be missing future clients if your article is not on FastTimesAtRidgemontHighArticles.com, but I would rather spend my money elsewhere.

            AL
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            • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
              Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

              Hi Jay,

              Don't forget that I am not just an article directory owner...I am also an article marketer and have been since long before I created my directories.

              I don't look at things like a CEO - I am kind of a morphed-up hybrid kind of guy.

              I am watching and testing things every day while I stare out my back window at the Florida woods. While I have not tested any of the mass-submission services in a while, I can rarely find someone who will show me proof that they are worth the time and energy. Very rarely...like twice, and that was before January 1st.

              It's true that the Internet is made up of a bunch of individual places, but (if you are using the right keywords) you are fooling yourself to think that you are making any extra money by mass-submitting vs. concentrating on getting your article at the top of the search engines for the right keyphrases, the difference is frankly unbelievable!

              So I guess it really comes down to whether you believe you will gain more conversions from the one visitor you'll get a day from mass-submission, or the hundreds you can get from an article on the first page of Google...and the time spent doing it.

              From what I see every day regarding article page traffic: a first page Google ranking will outperform any other website's direct traffic...short of being on the first page of an authority site.

              True you may be missing future clients if your article is not on FastTimesAtRidgemontHighArticles.com, but I would rather spend my money elsewhere.

              AL

              That's all well and good Allen...

              BUT

              It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.... in my example above, my twenty minutes spent does NOT detract from my normal article marketing and traffic generation activites..

              How can you tell me, that I am wasting my time if it is something I can do incredibly quickly on top of my usual activities?..

              When you say "Article Mass Submitting Is A Complete Waste Of Time And Money - And This Is Why You Shouldn't Do It"... you are making a VERY broad statement about something inside of YOUR own business, not something you can apply to everybody and their business...



              Peace

              Jay

              p.s. Who says I'm not "concentrating on getting my article at the top of the search engines for the right keyphrases" in my primary activities?

              It's not as cut and dry as you are making out Allen....
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              • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
                Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

                That's all well and good Allen...

                BUT

                It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.... in my example above, my twenty minutes spent does NOT detract from my normal article marketing and traffic generation activites..

                How can you tell me, that I am wasting my time if it is something I can do incredibly quickly on top of my usual activities?..

                When you say "Article Mass Submitting Is A Complete Waste Of Time And Money - And This Is Why You Shouldn't Do It"... you are making a VERY broad statement about something inside of YOUR own business, not something you can apply to everybody and their business...



                Peace

                Jay
                Jay,
                This is the exact reason why I posted what I did about those 5,000 so-called article directories.

                James
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                • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
                  Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

                  Jay,
                  This is the exact reason why I posted what I did about those 5,000 so-called article directories.

                  James
                  James...

                  You're thinking too much like an either/or situation...

                  You make some valid points above.. and if I was using mass article submissions as my primary source of traffic..I'd probably be a bit worried..

                  But, I'm not and it's just an added road inwards that I can use to my benefit for just a little time investment or outsource it for very little $$$ because it is such a quick task

                  Peace

                  Jay
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                  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
                    Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

                    James...

                    You're thinking too much like an either/or situation...

                    You make some valid points above.. and if I was using mass article submissions as my primary source of traffic..I'd probably be a bit worried..

                    But, I'm not and it's just an added road inwards that I can use to my benefit for just a little time investment or outsource it for very little $$$ because it is such a quick task

                    Peace

                    Jay
                    Hi Jay,
                    Oh I agree with you .. I just pointed out the 5,000 directory thing because someone posted they submit to 6,000

                    Submission to an article directory is only a part of it ..

                    James
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                    • Profile picture of the author Quang Van
                      Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

                      Submission to an article directory is only a part of it ..

                      James
                      What's the other parts?

                      Originally Posted by BJ Min

                      now, i just submit to Ezinearticles which brings the best bang for my buck
                      Yeah same here, most of my traffic comes from Ezinearticles too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Thanks Eric - but shouldn't one believe that Yahoo and MSN wouldn't want duplicate results either.

    When it comes to mass-submission for backlinks...people are taking advantage of the algorithms and trying to trick the SEs into thinking that their article is better than someone else's when in fact it may not be. Right? Well that's simply not working anymore.

    If you are mass-submitting for direct traffic then it goes back to wasting money because you're not going to get the direct traffic from all those directories. Maybe one hit a day...MAYBE.

    Again, things are always changing on the internet and this is one of those things that isn't static - I just don't see it working anymore. (And for others reading this, I mean see it, not guess it)

    You're right, though. No need to torment. If you work a campaign with integrity and honesty then it all works out - especially in the long run.

    At least for right now...

    AL
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    • Profile picture of the author naruq
      Allen thanks for providing us with some insight on article mass submitting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Garratt
    Is this why my EZA articles got 25% more views than any other month in January?

    All the articles I submit to EZA are original. I then rewrite them 100% (apart from the title sometimes) and submit them to a handfull of other places.

    As for what Google thinks. All my websites are 100% original content written by me and they get a fair amount of SE traffic. But the traffic coming directly from Google is almost non-existent. I try to do my best to please G but in the end I think I'm wasting my time.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      I agree with you on this.

      I have always taught people to get their content indexed by Google on their primary site before submitting it elsewhere.

      You want YOUR site to be the one google sees as the resource.

      Then you might rewrite the content or submit it in different ways for different reasons.

      More is not necessarily better when it comes to submitting content online.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Alexander
    have to disagree, Allen. If you submit variations of your article (i.e. different each time) you can really dominate the serps. Aim for 65 - 75% different every time, and google (at time of writing) seems to regard them as different articles (you need to change the title every time as well, and the resource box, obviously).
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Originally Posted by Jon Alexander View Post

      have to disagree, Allen. If you submit variations of your article (i.e. different each time) you can really dominate the serps. Aim for 65 - 75% different every time, and google (at time of writing) seems to regard them as different articles (you need to change the title every time as well, and the resource box, obviously).
      I've tried that as well and have realized that if I am going to rewrite an article 75%, change the resource box and then change the title, then I found better results submitting THAT article as a new one and starting over from scratch with my 15 or so places where I submit in that niche.

      This way I now have 2 articles out there in 15 different places instead of just 1, both getting traffic on the order of 30-40% more than submitting the rewritten article to other places.

      It's a lot faster to build your article VRE and exposure that way. You just have to make sure you are writing good stuff.

      AL
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    I would very much agree submitting to 1,000's of article directories is a waste of not only time but server resources. There are not 1,000's that get decent traffic and no traffic = no traffic for your articles, thus it is a waste. Not to mention almost all submitters use generic categories to submit your articles.

    Articles submitted to article directories should be used for backlinks and traffic from the article directory both. There are a good 50+ article directories that do have decent traffic. You can very well generate 20 or 30 unique visits a day from each article directory. Getting this traffic depends upon how you do your marketing, just submitting an article and doing nothing else may or may not help you. I will not release any secrets on how to get traffic from your articles here, but realize you can use those articles for direct traffic without google.

    I would agree with Eric above and I have said it many times myself, there is more than just google. If you are putting all your efforts into google itself then you are wasting your time and money. When you leave out yahoo, msn, excite, aol, and etc. then you are making the biggest mistake you could ever make with your business.

    There are so many factors involved with this that it is almost impossible to keep up. If you are just grabbing up that junk submitter and slapping your article in it and click a submit button and do nothing else then I will agree with Allen's post 100%.. I always laugh when people say "I submit to 5,000 article directories", I do not laugh to be rude but it is really funny that someone cons you into thinking that there is 5,000 article directories that have real traffic.

    Again I am not going to release any *secrets* in this post but let me tell you why you are wasting your time and money when submitting to so-called 5,000 article directories.

    * There is not 5,000 article directories that have real traffic.
    * Unless you visit those articles directories you have no idea if it is nofollow or not.
    * Unless you visit those articles directories you have no idea if your article is submitted or not.
    * Some articles directories do not allow html while others do, if your article has html that is not allowed then it is rejected no matter what that software tells you.
    * Some article directories allow links inthe body, if you are not taking advantage of this then you are losing money.
    * Almost all submitters use generic categories, if the article directory does not have that generic category then your article will never be submitted no matter what that software tells you. Also by using generic categories your article may or may not be posted in the proper category, which means 0 traffic for you if posted in wrong category.
    * Out of these so-called 5,000 article directories you will be lucky (yes this is a guess) if 100 is actually counted as backlinks.
    * Many article directories actually require double return between paragraphs for your article to look proper, for example GoArticles. On the other hand if you use a double return for ArticleDashboard then your article looks like crap.
    * If you are using 2 links in your resource box and not using a double return then many article directories will have that resource all as one line.

    This is just a few reasons why you are wasting time and money on submitting to a so-called 5,000 article directories. Again there are many factors involved in submitting articles and if you are not taking advantage of these factors then you are losing a great deal of money and wasting a great deal of time.

    At the same time if you are only submitting to the top 10 article directories and doing nothing else then you are leaving a great deal of money on the table....

    As tina posted above

    If this is the case, why do I get the same article on different sites in my search results quite often? I have had times where I'll get five results on the first page, all from different sites, but the article is exactly the same.
    This is very true, google will display more than one result...

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    6000 links with the same anchor text is not a good thing. Natural linking the slow and easy way will bring you great results. Have a little patience and focus on quality. The traffic will come, especially if you do something each and every day to promote your sites.

    TomG.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

      6000 links with the same anchor text is not a good thing.
      Says who?...

      When I am working on a site to get good Google rankings maybe, but as we already know, Google is just one road inwards...


      Natural linking the slow and easy way will bring you great results. Have a little patience and focus on quality. The traffic will come, especially if you do something each and every day to promote your sites.

      TomG.
      Again, this is outcome dependent... if you want to focus on Google traffic, then I agree.. but it ain't the only gig in town.

      Peace

      Jay

      p.s. I'm just airing both sides of the discussion here.. I'm not saying we should ride rough shod across the internet.. I play the Google game all the time because of what it can do for my business.. but they aren't my whole business, just one source of traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
      That is real wisdom.


      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

      6000 links with the same anchor text is not a good thing. Natural linking the slow and easy way will bring you great results. Have a little patience and focus on quality. The traffic will come, especially if you do something each and every day to promote your sites.

      TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author sree94
    Recently I have been trying to place my EZA articles on my website. They are copied word for word

    Is this a mistake?
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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Originally Posted by sree94 View Post

      Recently I have been trying to place my EZA articles on my website. They are copied word for word

      Is this a mistake?
      You should post them on your site or blog first.. Then post elsewhere, it is fine that it is posted word for word. Some change their articles while others do not. Personally I do both, some I change and some I do not.

      Even with it posted on your website and others it will still pull in google for your keyword(s). I dominate the entire first page in google for certain keywords using one article that is exactly word for word. Each listing on the first page goes to a different site but uses my exact article.

      James
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  • Profile picture of the author Makabongwe Maseko
    Well I guess it depends on why you are mass submitting,

    If you are going it for Google then its a waste of time, but if you are doing it for visitors then its not.

    And what I've just released is that most of the sales conversions come from my articles then search engines.

    So mass submissions works best for me in terms of conversions. But I only submit to the popular article directories.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    But how do you think those visitors GOT to your articles? Not from browsing through KillerArticlesAboutAnything.com or any of those other 4,999 crap directories - they found your article from a search result. And those search results are only going to be there from a select few article directories per niche.

    Consumers don't browse article directories, they browse Google, Yahoo and MSN.

    By the way, if you only submit to the popular article directories, then you are not mass-submitting. There are only a couple dozen popular directories out there.

    AL
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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      But how do you think those visitors GOT to your articles? Not from browsing through KillerArticlesAboutAnything.com or any of those other 4,999 crap directories - they found your article from a search result. And those search results are only going to be there from a select few article directories per niche.

      Consumers don't browse article directories, they browse Google, Yahoo and MSN.

      AL
      Careful Allen, this is not entirely true.. While I agree there are many useless article directories I will not agree that someone found your article from a search engine. I also will disagree consumer do not browse article directories because my stats say something else...

      As Jay has said "Google" is only a small part of it and as a matter fact sarch engines alone is only a small part of it.. There are many many other ways to build traffic with articles even articles that are posted on other sites..

      James
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      • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
        Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

        Careful Allen, this is not entirely true.. While I agree there are many useless article directories I will not agree that someone found your article from a search engine. I also will disagree consumer do not browse article directories because my stats say something else...

        As Jay has said "Google" is only a small part of it and as a matter fact sarch engines alone is only a small part of it.. There are many many other ways to build traffic with articles even articles that are posted on other sites..

        James
        I don't need to be careful because I am not guessing at things here James.

        Our stats COMPLETELY disagree. As do the stats of all the other directory owners I talk to on a daily basis. Search engines are in fact a HUGE and very important part of it...across the board. That's just the way it is. (Bruce Hornsby)

        I agree there are other ways to get significant article traffic, we see traffic from everywhere...but to say search engines are only a small part of it just doesn't fit at all.

        One day, hopefully, you'll see exactly what I mean.

        Allen
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        • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
          Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

          I don't need to be careful because I am not guessing at things here James.

          Our stats COMPLETELY disagree. As do the stats of all the other directory owners I talk to on a daily basis. Search engines are in fact a HUGE and very important part of it...across the board. That's just the way it is. (Bruce Hornsby)

          I agree there are other ways to get significant article traffic, we see traffic from everywhere...but to say search engines are only a small part of it just doesn't fit at all.

          One day, hopefully, you'll see exactly what I mean.

          Allen
          Allen I say a small part because it is based on your marketing efforts..

          25% search engines
          25% other methods
          25% other methods
          25% other emthods

          Obviously I am not ging to release those other methods here but many should know and I think many do use other methods. As such 25% meaning a small part of it...

          If you market to search engines only then that is the traffic you are going to get but why market to only search engines when there are many many other ways...

          Google is not the only thing on the internet. I do my research and my testing constantly just as with many sites showing on google with the same article, this is not a guess.. This is facts, I dominate the entire front page and all 10 listings are different sites and have the same exact article. I have 4 or 5 keywords/articles that do this. But I would not reply 100% on google for my traffic.

          James
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          • Profile picture of the author jan roos
            Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

            Allen I say a small part because it is based on your marketing efforts..

            25% search engines
            25% other methods
            25% other methods
            25% other emthods

            Obviously I am not ging to release those other methods here but many should know and I think many do use other methods. As such 25% meaning a small part of it...

            If you market to search engines only then that is the traffic you are going to get but why market to only search engines when there are many many other ways...

            Google is not the only thing on the internet. I do my research and my testing constantly just as with many sites showing on google with the same article, this is not a guess.. This is facts, I dominate the entire front page and all 10 listings are different sites and have the same exact article. I have 4 or 5 keywords/articles that do this. But I would not reply 100% on google for my traffic.

            James
            Where do you give those secrets away?

            Cheers
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            • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
              Originally Posted by jan roos View Post

              Where do you give those secrets away?

              Cheers
              Well since self promotion is not allowed I can not answer your question...

              I would like to set the record straight on a few things here which I think being online for over 23 years and building and running websites for over 15 years I have more than enough experience in my corner..

              1. Submitted your same article to other article directories word for word is NOT trickery of any kind. This is no different than people syndicating your article, which again is NOT trickery.

              2. Article Directories do get traffic and consumers that browse the site and articles. I have an article directory with stats that can prove just that. I also have tracking and sales from my articles which again proves the article directories have traffic other than some search engine.

              3. Google is NOT king of traffic, I know many want to preach it is and many want to think being on the front page of google will make you a million dollars but sorry to burst your bubble, this is a myth. There are many many many other ways to build and get traffic using articles.

              4. Louis Raven, Jay and bgmacaw have all hit the nail right on the head.

              5. Mass Submission does work, do you need to submit to so-called 5,000 ?? Well read my other post.. Many directories are useless and get no traffic. Mass submission to proper directories and properly submitting does in-fact work and works very well for many many people.

              6. Submit and use your own articles, not some cheap PLR articles that have been slapped around 1,000 membership sites. It is fine to spin your articles or submit them word for word, the choice is yours. If you choose to spin then use a proper spinner (human controlled spinner).

              7. Test and test and do not just follow someone just because they say they have tested. It is impossible for any one person to test every single way to use an article, I do not care how many years you have been doing it. Testing may work for one person but the same test may not work for another.

              8. Realize and understand that any kind of marketing is constantly changing, improving, use different methods, have different tools, use new and improved technologies, and etc... Just because something worked 3 months ago does not mean it will work today.

              9. There are a million different ways to get from Point A -to- Point B and use 100% legal methods for doing so.

              10. I think I said enough on this subject... Maybe good to run and hide before I make some angry about my opinion...

              James
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              • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
                Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

                Well since self promotion is not allowed I can not answer your question...

                I would like to set the record straight on a few things here which I think being online for over 23 years and building and running websites for over 15 years I have more than enough experience in my corner..

                1. Submitted your same article to other article directories word for word is NOT trickery of any kind. This is no different than people syndicating your article, which again is NOT trickery.

                2. Article Directories do get traffic and consumers that browse the site and articles. I have an article directory with stats that can prove just that. I also have tracking and sales from my articles which again proves the article directories have traffic other than some search engine.

                3. Google is NOT king of traffic, I know many want to preach it is and many want to think being on the front page of google will make you a million dollars but sorry to burst your bubble, this is a myth. There are many many many other ways to build and get traffic using articles.

                4. Louis Raven, Jay and bgmacaw have all hit the nail right on the head.

                5. Mass Submission does work, do you need to submit to so-called 5,000 ?? Well read my other post.. Many directories are useless and get no traffic. Mass submission to proper directories and properly submitting does in-fact work and works very well for many many people.

                6. Submit and use your own articles, not some cheap PLR articles that have been slapped around 1,000 membership sites. It is fine to spin your articles or submit them word for word, the choice is yours. If you choose to spin then use a proper spinner (human controlled spinner).

                7. Test and test and do not just follow someone just because they say they have tested. It is impossible for any one person to test every single way to use an article, I do not care how many years you have been doing it. Testing may work for one person but the same test may not work for another.

                8. Realize and understand that any kind of marketing is constantly changing, improving, use different methods, have different tools, use new and improved technologies, and etc... Just because something worked 3 months ago does not mean it will work today.

                9. There are a million different ways to get from Point A -to- Point B and use 100% legal methods for doing so.

                10. I think I said enough on this subject... Maybe good to run and hide before I make some angry about my opinion...

                James

                Great points James.. captures the essentials of this discussion..

                Your OWN testing is the ONLY way to know what is or isn't going to work in your business..

                Peace

                Jay

                p.s. Kudos to all warriors who weighed in on this discussion... made for some great sharing of opinions... thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Makabongwe Maseko
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      But how do you think those visitors GOT to your articles? Not from browsing through KillerArticlesAboutAnything.com or any of those other 4,999 crap directories - they found your article from a search result. And those search results are only going to be there from a select few article directories per niche.

      Consumers don't browse article directories, they browse Google, Yahoo and MSN.

      By the way, if you only submit to the popular article directories, then you are not mass-submitting. There are only a couple dozen popular directories out there.

      AL
      Well I guess that depends on how many popular article directories you may consider popular. Your numbers maybe different from mine.

      And you say:

      "Consumers don't browse article directories, they browse Google, Yahoo and MSN"

      Then what's the meaning of popular? (In terms of an article directory being popular).
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Let's not forget that we are talking about article traffic. There's a big difference in mindset when speaking of article traffic vs. website traffic.

    At least in my convoluted mind. LOL

    (I just want to add also that this is just one tiny little piece of the entire article marketing puzzle. Much depends on your audience, your writing style, your MO, your POV, on-page SEO, title, resource and all those other aspects of article marketing that make up the entire picture.)

    AL
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      Let's not forget that we are talking about article traffic. There's a big difference in mindset when speaking of article traffic vs. website traffic.

      At least in my convoluted mind. LOL
      Mine too...lol.. I should have said when working on content to get good Google ranking but Tommy's comment mentioned back links so my mind twisted...lol

      Peace

      Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author BJ Min
    i tried mass submitting and it's not that effective...i even tried spinning and submitting to 10 directories...but that was really a waste of time...

    now, i just submit to Ezinearticles which brings the best bang for my buck
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  • Profile picture of the author lisa mesa
    There is more to the internet than Google.

    The same article could be found by eager readers on multiple sites without ever searching on Google or the other search engines.
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  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    For mass submission to have any benefit whatsoever. You need to spin your articles and yes this does take time. Preparation for spinning is laborious, writing each sentence a different way 4-5 times is a pain. Having spun you have to believe you have defeated the algorithm LSI and all, no one knows if you have done so successfully or not because there is no proof.

    We need to judge whether spinning with all it's hassles and crap output is giving us any benefit and whether another unique article might be preferable.

    I will never visit 99% of article directories and never will but I will search Google dozens of times a day and this is the profile of 99% of searchers.

    I have a feeling Google is getting sick of mass submission and article spinners, and it will only be a matter of time before the benefits of these tactics will be degraded.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by madison_avenue View Post

      For mass submission to have any benefit whatsoever. You need to spin your articles and yes this does take time. Preparation for spinning is laborious, writing each sentence a different way 4-5 times is a pain. Having spun you have to believe you have defeated the algorithm LSI and all, no one knows if you have done so successfully or not because there is no proof.

      We need to judge whether spinning with all it's hassles and crap output is giving us any benefit and whether another unique article might be preferable.

      I will never visit 99% of article directories never will but I will search Google dozens
      of times a day and this is the profile of 99% of searchers.

      I have a feeling Google is getting sick of mass submission and article spinners, and it will only be a matter of time before the benefits of these tactics will be degraded.
      Hi Madison..

      I'm curious...

      You say: "For mass submission to have any benefit whatsoever. You need to spin your articles"

      I'm not necessarily saying the opposite, I'm just interested to know what brings you to this definite conclusion..

      Peace

      Jay

      p.s. I can honestly say that I believe article spinning is on the whole, a waste of time, but I don't understand why, in the example that a few of us have laid out here.. it is even thought of to be a required factor.
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      • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
        Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post


        p.s. I can honestly say that I believe article spinning is on the whole, a waste of time, but I don't understand why, in the example that a few of us have laid out here.. it is even thought of to be a required factor.
        I don't understand that either. If I am going to rewrite an article, then I am going to submit it as a NEW article.

        AL
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      • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
        Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

        Hi Madison..

        I'm curious...

        You say: "For mass submission to have any benefit whatsoever. You need to spin your articles"

        I'm not necessarily saying the opposite, I'm just interested to know what brings you to this definite conclusion..

        Peace

        Jay

        p.s. I can honestly say that I believe article spinning is on the whole, a waste of time, but I don't understand why, in the example that a few of us have laid out here.. it is even thought of to be a required factor.
        If you follow Allen's OP to it's logical conlusion that: "Google will select one article or text from the bucket to display", then the only way around this is by spinning and hoping that Google will see the spun as article as a different unique article in it's own right.
        I don't know for certain whether this is the fate of duplicate articles but Allen says he has tested it and he thinks that it is and it's useful to have been told.

        Mass submission of articles may have been effective in the past and even now but may not be in the future. If we have been alerted to this then it is good because if it is true we can think of other strategies . If it isn't true we can continue as we are.


        Sorry double post!
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        • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
          Originally Posted by madison_avenue View Post

          If you follow Allen's OP to it's logical conlusion that: "Google will select one article or text from the bucket to display", then the only way around this is by spinning and hoping that Google will see the spun as article as a different unique article in it's own right.
          I don't know for certain whether this is the fate of duplicate articles but Allen says he has tested it and he thinks that it is and it's useful to have been told.

          Mass submission of articles may have been effective in the past and even now but may not be in the future. If we have been alerted to this then it is good because if it is true we can think of other strategies . If it isn't true we can continue as we are.


          Sorry double post!
          Madison the problem is this is simply not correct..

          "which ONE they are going to display in the SERPs - and this is all separate from the algorithm which decideWhen the Google spiders find duplicate content on more than one domain, they will group all of those pages into a virtual "bucket." Then they analyze all of the pages in the bucket and decide ws where you will actually rank in the SERPs for your keyword phrases.
          If it was correct then myself and many others would not be dominating the front page of google with our articles and keywords.

          Also if this was correct then syndication would have very little meaning other than to provide content to other sites visitors.

          I even have the same exact articles from the same domain that show up for certain keywords.. You just have to know how to do it....

          James
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          • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
            Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

            Madison the problem is this is simply not correct..



            If it was correct then myself and many others would not be dominating the front page of google with our articles and keywords.

            Also if this was correct then syndication would have very little meaning other than to provide content to other sites visitors.

            I even have the same exact articles from the same domain that show up for certain keywords.. You just have to know how to do it....

            James

            Thanks for that reply James a very useful post. Yes I see where your coming from now your point regarding syndication is well taken. What would be the point of It.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Gotta run - what a great debate! See you guys all later...
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Jay,

    Google will bring you traffic day in and day out. When your articles are buried in the article directory's pages, Google's first page results will bring you the traffic. I am in this for the long run, short runs are a different story.

    TomG.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

      Jay,

      Google will bring you traffic day in and day out. When your articles are buried in the article directory's pages, Google's first page results will bring you the traffic. I am in this for the long run, short runs are a different story.

      TomG.
      I don't disagree with that Tommy...

      Again though, you may choose to look at it like a one or the other situation..

      Personally.. I think it is best for me in my business to do both if they:

      a) Don't conflict with each other

      b) The lesser of the two in terms of power (in this case mass submission being the lesser) doesn't detract from your primary article placement/use.

      It's tried and tested in my business and it works exceptionally well, my long term plans and short term are in synch


      Peace, dude.

      Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author munbu
    Thank you - I found that really useful - I'm new to all this so appreciate all the info I can get
    cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author MisterMunch
    I know a service that charge you 30 bucks for writing and submitting an article to 100 sites.

    If I submit one of those each day and only get 1 visitor a day from each submission I will get 365 visitors a day after a full year. If my products converts at 2 per cent I will make 7,3 sales each day. The cost will be $10.950.

    If the commision for each sale is 25 you will after one year make 7,3x $25= $182,5 a day, or $66.160 a year. A pretty good full income.

    Just wanted to show how one more visit a day helps you to grow your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    @ Allen

    "which ONE they are going to display in the SERPs - and this is all separate from the algorithm which decideWhen the Google spiders find duplicate content on more than one domain, they will group all of those pages into a virtual "bucket." Then they analyze all of the pages in the bucket and decide ws where you will actually rank in the SERPs for your keyword phrases.

    The bucket is re-analyzed at different intervals.

    So this again raises the question...why would you waste your time and money by submitting to 50,000 different websites when Google is only going to display one of them when all is said and done?"




    I am basing that conclusion on Allen's opening post, I don't know for definite but then none of us do. If you follow the logic of his argument that only one article or text will be selected from the the bucket. Then the only way to get round this is spinning and hoping that Google think it's different unique article.

    Just because mass submission worked in the past(even now) does not mean will work in the future. It's good we have been alerted so we can be aware of it now and can develop alternative strategies if required.
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  • Profile picture of the author jay7707
    Can anyone give me a list of the top Article Directories to submit to?
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  • Profile picture of the author blase40
    Great post Allen. I hope everyone sees the value in this information being shared by you. Its great when folks that know more about a particular topic than I put in the hundreds of hours (and dollars) to do the research, and then share it at no cost.



    Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

    I wouldn't mass submit articles if I were you.

    There's nothing really wrong with doing it, but it is now a waste of your ever-shrinking time and your hard-earned money.

    You can take my word for it, or you can do your own research to verify what I am saying here. I encourage anyone to respond with their thoughts.

    Times change - Rules change. Google does not sit around and leave everything open for tricking them into thinking your article is better than someone else's. Google does not like being tricked or having their algorithms taken advantage of.

    While some do not think mass submission is tricking or taking advantage of Google - THEY think it is - so it is.

    So let me explain why I think it is a waste of time and money, for reasons other than what I have discussed above.

    Some say not to mass submit because of a duplicate content penalty. Well, there is no duplicate content penalty, so you don't need to concern yourself with that at all. More info on that here...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/allen-graves/1346-real-story-about-google-duplicate-content-google-duplicate-content.html

    Now, on to the fact that you want to populate the internet with the same information 80 million times.

    When the Google spiders find duplicate content on more than one domain, they will group all of those pages into a virtual "bucket." Then they analyze all of the pages in the bucket and decide which ONE they are going to display in the SERPs - and this is all separate from the algorithm which decides where you will actually rank in the SERPs for your keyword phrases.

    The bucket is re-analyzed at different intervals.

    So this again raises the question...why would you waste your time and money by submitting to 50,000 different websites when Google is only going to display one of them when all is said and done?

    My clients have their own customized list of places to submit their articles for each niche. They submit to around 15 different websites per article/niche. For article directories, you have to ask Google which ones you should submit to and submit to about 6 or 8 of them. "Ask Google" means that you have to sit down and do your due diligence.

    Like I said above, Google is only going to display one of the results in the SERPs - so why submit to 15 different places, why not just one? Well, it's a very long story, but in a nutshell, by submitting to the 15 sites for your niche, you are increasing the chances of getting a higher ranking AND you are maximizing your chances of getting direct traffic (as opposed to organic search traffic) to your article page from well-trafficed sites, all WHILE keeping your time investment at a manageable level.

    This allows you to focus on things which are more important than the actual submission process.

    Think about it and do what you think is best. Many of you already know that what works for one article may not work for another. So testing is extremely important. But there are things that can be pretty much generic across the board - this being one of them.

    ...at least for now.

    Respectfully,
    Allen Graves
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Lopes
    CNN produces and "submits" articles. They are everywhere. People talk about them , they blog about them , they post them on their sites ( even when theyre not supposed to ) , they put CNN's RSS feeds on their sites , they post forum posts about them and in short generate massive traffic for CNN.

    CNN do OK with articles , probably because they're really good and people want to read them.

    $5 articles and spun articles wont do this. Compare the effect of 1 CNN article vs 1000 of yours. Can you imagine how long they would last if they produced spun articles?

    I have done well with articles and badly with them too. Every time - it was the crappy article that failed.

    Im not sure if I derailed this thread with this...but perhaps its just an observation of the effect of quality?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lambert Klein
    Hmmmm,

    When I search on Google for my articles I see quite a few listings for them. So this idea isn't in concrete. It may happen for some I suppose...
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  • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
    Hi Allen:

    Hope you are well. Thanks for the post and advice. I am confused on one issue. Sorry if I read the thread incorrectly.

    Let me set something up so we can compare. What if you have been writing quality threads/articles on the internet. Although Google does not enjoy being fooled you submit the article to a myriad of sites. Is it possible that the amount of people you reach with the quality content of the article and the potential for them to buy your products outweigh what search engines think, or is the evidence 100 percent that you can market to every Article site on the internet but the better results come with making Google happy and only using Ezine or Go?

    Thanks for the clarification.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Look guys and girls, I have been doing this for many years and I have seen all of the gimmicks come and go. And the simple fact is that they have all ended up on the cutting room floor along with a great many webmaster's hopes and dreams. I've seen it happen a LOT. Especially in the 2007-2008 era.

    There are other marketers out there - Shainin, Platt, Hall, Wagenheim, Reichenberger, Herring, Kelsall, Gorman, and the list goes on - that have perservered and can tell you what works in article marketing...

    The ONLY thing that works - AND CONTINUES TO WORK AFTER YEARS - is running a legitimate, honest and white-hat campaign with INTEGRITY, and doesn't involve trying to cheat the system.

    I have challenged anyone for proof that I am incorrect and I have not heard anything except for a bunch of crazy claims.

    It won't take you long. If you are serious about your article marketing and you are wondering if what I am saying is legit, then go to Google Help, Google Webmaster Tools, Google Moderator and while you're at it, sign up for all their blog feeds (As a webmaster, you should be doing this anyway IMO).

    You will quickly see that what I say in my OP, and the attached blog link about duplicate content, is in fact true.

    All I have done is take that information and apply it, literally, to the article marketing world. Not as a directory owner or CEO, but as the hybrid marketer, directory owner, statistic researcher and teacher.

    After reading the information from Google, if you want to trick the SE's and get the entire first page of Google pointing to a single article of yours...go for it! But you are frankly the kind of person that I don't want to be around in the internet marketing world. I've been at this for years and have made a great living from providing quality content and getting results from hard work and integrity.

    The gimmicks work! Don't get me wrong. You can make a killing with them. But they don't last. If they did last, then we would have all figured out the answer by now and every one of us would be financially free.

    Finally, I have a lot of information and I like to share it. Shit changes all the time on the internet and I pride myself on being one of the most up-to-date and informed article marketers on this planet (shameless, I know). And every day that goes by I have more and more content to study and more time invested in testing and results.

    Like I said in the OP. You can take my word for it, you can do your own research, or you can just wait and see...but then you'll just be a follower. I suggest finding out the truth and making your own decisions.

    There is an amazing difference between following your competition vs. leading the pack!

    Respectfully,
    Allen Graves
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Mr Munch - That sounds like a great plan. If you can get to that level, it sounds like a killer investment!

    Madison - Great words there! "...if it is true we can think of other strategies." Innovation can literally change your entire life. But be safe and always have a contingency plan!

    Blase - Thanks a lot. But it's my job and I love it!

    Madison - Syndication was put into place for that very reason...to provide content for other websites. THAT is what it's for...it's purpose is NOT to spam the first page of the SERPs with the same info over and over again. Nor is that what search engines are for! IMO, of course.

    And the "bucket" information - came straight from Google. If they are being tricked, they'll find out and they will create a way to stop it. It has happened hundreds of times in the past and will continue. IMO, of course.

    Lloyd - It's not really fair to compare CNN.com with any of the websites owned by Warriors. But if we were to do that, I would have to agree with what you are saying, furthering the point that white-hat syndication and marketing works very well.

    LKlein - If you search for specific text, or search in "Quotes", they will give you multiple duplicate results. Not sure if they do it on purpose (for us) or if they just haven't developed to a high enough level to provide different results for those searches.

    Cirrus - Yes, that's perfectly fine. You can submit the same information to as many sites as you want without worry of a penalty or SERPs decline. I think this is so that nobody can sabotage your efforts by duplicating YOUR content.

    Craig - It's no problem to submit your content throughout the internet. That's why I have my own clients submit to several sites and directories and that is why I am syndicating my own content. The "tricking" part comes from the thought that all those backlinks are going to get you higher in the SERPs. That is what appears to have lost it's gusto since the beginning of the year.

    I have been trying to establish that the 1,000 links out there don't matter as much because the directories your articles end up on are getting zero traffic and, therefore, zero click-throughs to your website. I could go purchase 1,000 domain names right now, write a quick progam and have a system in place to submit your articles to over 1,000 directories by early this afternoon. Add EZA and a few more "popular" directories and I'd be done.

    I'd make a killing - but you wouldn't.

    I'm not saying that this is what those services are doing - just trying to push the point of it all.

    I practice and preach to find the sites that are WORTH IT - and only submit to those.

    I don't want to come off as some kind of "know-it-all" or wannabe guru. I am simply passing some information I have along to you guys and gals. You can take it as being accurate, you can listen to someone else, you can do your own research, or you can do what a majority of serious AMers do - run tests and wait to see what happens.

    Respectfully,
    Allen Graves
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    When the Google spiders find duplicate content on more than one domain, they will group all of those pages into a virtual "bucket." Then they analyze all of the pages in the bucket and decide which ONE they are going to display in the SERPs
    certainly not. you're basically saying there is only ONE copy of an article in the index. Thats definitively not the case.


    "President Obama elected".

    You know, NEWS usually come from agencies like AP. Then the actual news companies (BBC, FOX, CBS, CNN, ...) "pick up" those news (yes, they also FILTER them according to what they think is relevant.)

    Then CNN, CBC, FOX, BBC whatever publish those news. MANY from the same source (the news/press agency like AP).

    Does Google filter all BUT ONE since it is the same story? No.
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      certainly not. you're basically saying there is only ONE copy of an article in the index. Thats definitively not the case.


      "President Obama elected".

      You know, NEWS usually come from agencies like AP. Then the actually news companies (BBC, FOX, CBS, CNN) "pick up" those news (yes, they also FILTER them according to what they think is relevant.)

      Then CNN, CBC, FOX, BBC whatever publishes those news. MANY from the same source (the news/press agency like AP).

      Does Google filter all BUT ONE since it is the same story? No.
      LOL - If you want to think CNN, FOX and BBC are treated like niche marketing, affiliate marketing or article websites, go right ahead.

      Per the information found ALL OVER Google's websites, the other URLs are indexed in the supplemental index, so you're right...they are indexed.

      BTW - I just did a search for "President Obama elected" and found what appears to be 20 different pages in the first 20 results. Didn't feel like going further.

      Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author activetrader
    Why you shouldn't mass-submit - there is only 10 spots on most brousers (on SERPs)
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  • Profile picture of the author Lambert Klein
    Maybe I don't understand the original post, but how is submitting your article to several sites "tricking" or "gimmicking"?

    I look at it as spreading the word. If it's something that can benefit others why not?

    Of course if you are abusing this by submitting useless articles to millions of sites then I see the point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Originally Posted by lklein View Post

      Maybe I don't understand the original post, but how is submitting your article to several sites "tricking" or "gimmicking"?

      I look at it as spreading the word. If it's something that can benefit others why not?

      Of course if you are abusing this by submitting useless articles to millions of sites then I see the point.
      Awesome point. If you are doing this to get the word out, then I don't see a problem...but again, how many hits does your article get from those 1,000 directories? Is it worth it?

      Thanks for this post, after watching the spammers for what seems like forever, it's very refreshing to see someone who uses mass-submission for the sake of the readers instead of for himself!

      AL
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    Allen, the duplicate content might get filtered out, BUT the pages/domains where your content is will still get indexed...meaning that each backlink back to your site IS recorded and COUNTS toward your overall link popularity.

    So I say - DISTRIBUTE THOSE ARTICLES!
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Originally Posted by RGallowitz View Post

      Allen, the duplicate content might get filtered out, BUT the pages/domains where your content is will still get indexed...meaning that each backlink back to your site IS recorded and COUNTS toward your overall link popularity.

      So I say - DISTRIBUTE THOSE ARTICLES!
      Recorded, yes. But are they counted, or DIScounted?????

      Where did you find your information?

      AL
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      • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
        Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

        Where did you find your information?
        From years of experience and constant, constant, constant testing plus results.

        Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

        Recorded, yes. But are they counted, or DIScounted?????
        The real question is, how MUCH duplicate content will make Google's filter trigger?
        If you publish an article on Hubpages, Squidoo and Ezinearticles (you can go test this)...they'll all rank PLUS they'll all get indexed.

        If you publish the same article on other high authority domains...it will STILL get indexed and get ranked.

        It's when your content gets published among a mountain of other duplicate content, that THOSE sites might experience a filter (making sure that the content has been published and indexed from your domain first off course).

        Now we all know that Google cannot really penalize your site for getting incoming links from bad neighborhoods otherwise your competitors can sabotage you by doing that to you. The same principle goes for duplicate content. It's not your fault if a webmaster decides to publish an article of yours on their site. The webmaster might experience their pages going through the supplemental filter, but the fact is, the page is still in Google's index (mixed within it's normal index and supplemental index)...whether it ranks well or not. The link will still get recorded. Google works on a citation principle. That's how Pagerank was developed. When somebody reference/citates your site (whether it's from duplicate content or not)...the link will get recorded.

        Now...the VALUE of that link might not be as powerful because the page has been filtered. But remember, sometimes pages may come out of the filter simply because the domain started achieving some sort of authority. I mean just look at ezinearticles. There are THOUSANDS of articles that are FIRST published and INDEXED by other websites FIRST. Those webmasters then go and publishes the articles on article directories such as Ezinearticles. Does ezinearticles get penalized? No. Why? Domain authority.

        The fact of the matter is, a website will achieve SEO success by using article distribution. It's been tried and tested and it works from a seo perspective.

        Here's another thing to think about which I don't want to elaborate on now, but just think about it. PRESS RELEASES. They usually go through a distribution practice (which even major companies like Amazon use). Do they affect SEO? Off course they do. In a good way.

        Best regards,
        Reinhardt
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    None of my marketing is search engine freindly, I never want to be dependant on something that can move the goal posts in a heart beat and leave me stranded.

    I'm with Allen on this one not interested in search engines at all, I just do good busineess marketing and if i end up with a decent serp somewhere way to go

    if i dont oh well business as usual
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  • Well, I've found this effective for 2 reasons:

    1) Short Term SEO - Article sites that approve your articles quickly will show your article right away, thus it will show up in the SERPs quickly. And if there are a dozen or so article sites out of hundreds (or thousands), then you have really high chance of getting a bunch of those duplicate articles on the first - third pages of Google within hours of being accepted.

    Thus you have multiple articles in the SERPs at a time, thus more exposure.

    But like I said, this is only short term SEO. Once Google realizes that it is Dupe Cont, then they will remove those duplicates, usually within a day or 2, then you will just have the one left.

    I'm ok with a burst of exposure for a day or two, especially in highly competitive/trafficked niches.

    2) You do get that extra direct traffic from all those accepted articles. The article sites may not be heavily trafficked sites in and of themselves, but if you have 400 copies of the same article out there, and you get a lead from all of them (or even half or so), you can build a list very quickly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Dulisse
    Interesting.

    Any more information on this "google bucket"? Does google have something on it, or more of a theory by someone?
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  • Profile picture of the author Louis Raven
    Not everyone uses Google or even a search engine for that matter.

    Regardless of Google and Buckets, Many people are at the sites hosting my article via desktop shortcut or bookmark.

    I want the most amount of people to see my article/author link box and by mass submitting I'm accheiving that.

    Louis
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post

      Not everyone uses Google or even a search engine for that matter.

      Regardless of Google and Buckets, Many people are at the sites hosting my article via desktop shortcut or bookmark.

      I want the most amount of people to see my article/author link box and by mass submitting I'm accheiving that.

      Louis
      Hi Louis,

      If you get enough traffic without SE help, I would imagine you could really blast off if you can get the search engines on your side.

      Just wondering why you don't do it.

      AL
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  • Profile picture of the author lohwengk
    Currently, I submit my (identical articles) to EZA, Article Alley, Article Dashboard, Go Articles, Website Articles, Easy Articles, Article Click and Article Cube for 14 niches.

    EZA produces 84% of my visitors (from article directories), Article Alley 7%, Article Dashboard 4%.

    My stats come from Statcounter - basically the latest 500 entries in the log file for each niche. This means almost all the data should be for 2009.

    Would anyone else care to share their hard data?
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Just an FYI - I just made up the "bucket" term. Came from my days of running an intranet site for an accounts receivable company. I don't think you'll find this info in Google websites if you search for "bucket."

    AL
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Hi Precious,

    That's a good test to run for a particular niche or product, but it doesn't really involve mass-submission.

    Glad to see people who are actually testing and self-educating themselves!

    AL
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
    I think We're trying to pigeon hole something that is infinity more complex then a little bit of research will ever be able to determine.

    A few statements made in this thread...

    "There are only 10 results on the first page of serps"

    This is true, but if one million people are searching for the same thing worldwide, these ten results will vary by hundreds of thousands.

    Searching for "Google" will bring Google.com, but a more general term like "credit" will bring results varied by geographic location, search history, demographics, and a multitude of other factors we can only begin to guess.

    "Thousands of useless directories"

    Yes there are, and yes your could build 1000 sites in 24 hours, they would all be new, sandboxed, and useless for submission.

    There are also thousands of directories that are well ran, promoted, optimized and aged to the point that make them well worth submitting to.
    Just because you haven't heard of them, does that make their 1000 or so unique visitors per day useless?

    A wedding planning article on EZA will quickly be lost in the multitude of submissions, not to mention the compitition within that niche.

    Now you have the lowly Wedding Planning article directory, with only a few thousand visits per month. But you submitted a well written article- tightly focused to the niche your targeting. Because of the context and "authority" of this directory you get a whole lot more "targeted visitors".
    Happens all the time, from my personal experience.

    Clearly you would'nt want to submit a FOREX article to this same directory, the results would be much different.

    "Only quality will build a solid business"

    I happen to agree, but there are quite a few millionaire "black hatters" who will tell us different.
    Nothing in IM is absolute...

    "Submitting to multiple directories is a waste of time"

    By hand, maybe... this is why you automate.
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  • Profile picture of the author rsteadm2
    I completely disagree.

    There are tools that allow submissions to article directories and blogs that will rotate content, giving unique titles and body content, that are not considered the same article on "8 million" sites. Thus giving unique content and a unique title adding some value to the page and links.

    It's very difficult to throw out a blanket statement like this topic of discussion and not have anomalies where the statement made is not the case.

    And of course, this is not the only method that you should be using to develop back links, This is only one of the tools in the arsenal.

    Ray S.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Hi Eric,

    I understand your comments about the wedding directory - but mass-submission is only practical for that wedding article if the service submits to a multitude of wedding directories.

    Anyone in in any niche should already know about those niche directories and should be submitting there in the first place, along with EZA, GA, etc...for free. If they don't then they are definitely missing out.

    Got to keep things real, though. Most of those 1,000 directories get nowhere near 1,000 visitors per day, bro. There are some on the actual authority sites (see last paragraph)...but most are WELL below that number...even the ones that get thousands and thousands of hits to their main website every day.

    "Yes there are, and yes your could build 1000 sites in 24 hours, they would all be new, sandboxed, and useless for submission."

    You are exactly right! Useless article directories abound and many of those submissions are going straight to those directories!

    One thing I am noticing, though, is that a lot of article directories are slowly being killed off. Whether the owner decided to scrap the idea or they never got enough traffic or they couldn't handle the time committment or Google stopped sending them the traffic they once did - hundreds of directories are falling off the map lately.

    If you're looking for a domain name that could come up available pretty soon, check out this list. There are some gems in here.

    Here are a few of the recently defunkt article directories:

    (note: if any of these are still active, they were down when I checked or they have not approved an article in over 6 months or they're just sitting there not being updated or not accepting new articles.)

    niche-article-library.be
    article-xplosion.com
    article-domain.com
    articlepyramind.com
    floridaarticles.com
    floirida-articles.com
    thatarticleguy.com/articles
    moneycommunity.biz
    rssarticles.com
    publishercloaninghouses.com
    information-exchange.net
    articlepyramid.com
    shades.alchemycove.com
    articlesbeyondbetter.com
    a1-articles.co.uk
    aboutwomenarticles.com
    affiliatemarketingarticles.net
    article-maze.com
    articleblaze
    articlebeam.com
    articleliftoff.com
    articlesaboutchina.com
    articlesheaven.co.uk
    convivium.co.za
    freearticledatabase.com
    internetmarketingarticles.org
    networkmarketingarticles.net
    retirement-articles.com
    skillz4u.com
    thatarticlesite.com
    thearticlecavern.co.uk
    theoldprintworks.net
    uncommonreads.com
    wedding-articles.net
    winearticles.net
    victortunggal.com
    toprealestateinvestingarticles.org
    thearticlesource.net
    thearticleking.com
    thearticleannex.com
    taxfinancearticles.com
    stickycontents.com
    signaturecontent.com
    setting-the-standard.com
    repositorysubmission.com
    realestatearticlesdirect.com/articles
    rarearticle.com
    preferrednetworkservices.com
    onthenetnews.com
    myarticlecolumn.com
    my-own-article.com
    learningminds.us
    indebtcounselingresource.com
    getthearticle.com
    freewebcontentarticles.com
    freewebcontent.org
    freearticleseek.com
    freearticlepromotion.com
    freearticleposting.com
    freeforallarticles.com
    financialplanningarticles.info
    ezinearticle.net
    contentarticles.us
    classarticles.com
    catchcontent.com
    cajun101.com
    bylamoarticles.com
    bestsellersworld.com/dashboard
    best-articles-site.com
    articlevillage.com
    articlevaults.com
    articlesportfolio.com
    articlesmore.com
    articleshield.com
    yourarticle.info
    wackum.com
    superzines.com
    solarpanelarticles.com
    freshwords.liberospace.net
    orbitaloc.com
    mnez.com
    make-money-fast-at-home.com/articles/
    legalinfoarticles.com
    freewebcontents.com
    drugabusearticlesexchange.com
    article-kingdom.co.uk
    article.directory4u.org/
    bigarticlesite.com
    articlechupacabra.com
    Bestsuccessarticles.com
    artsymmetry.com
    artikelen.drinkwaterbedrijf.nl
    articledirectoryking.com
    articlef.com
    articlehighlight.com
    articlesandauthors.com
    articlesplash.com
    articleszoom.com
    articlewhirlpool.com
    blogticles.com
    casinoarticles.us
    earticlesonline.com
    ezineprime.com
    jetarticles.com
    online-free-articles.com
    pyarticles.com
    realestate-articles.info
    morefreeinformation.com
    spintopic.com
    where-to-find.net
    superzines.com
    safeinsurancedirectory.com
    legalinfoarticles.com
    zapcontent.com
    freearticlemaster.com
    ezinevalley.com
    ezinetology.com
    articlesup.com
    articlesr.us
    article-kingdom.co.uk

    This list is by far not all-inclusive. Now, how many of your articles got mass-submitted to these directories? How many more directories are going to drop off the map this year? At this rate, there won't be many left to choose from! LOL

    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      LOL, very true!

      And many more with name like "articlehippo" "articlebozo" "articlecrashandburn" and so on....

      This would apply to all kinds of sites, blogs, CMS's ect.

      Any site will only be as good as the owners dedication to it.

      Spotted some pretty good domains for a person with the skill to develop tho.

      Thanks for that!

      Article marketing and submission is an ongoing process, and a large majority of those submissions will be dud's- no doubt.

      But many will take, and bring sales in the process, has been profitable for me.

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  • Profile picture of the author profitgenie
    Allen

    New to internet marketing can anyone give us a heads up on some of the better directories to be submitting our articles to

    PG
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    • Profile picture of the author theyoungmarketer
      Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author ExtTrail2
        Steve Thankyou for the list of article directories
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        • Profile picture of the author ExtTrail2
          Allen and youngmarkter thank you for your lists as well.
          This forum is truly a wealth of information.
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  • Profile picture of the author rcraig12
    So its still OK to mass submit if you use different search engines?

    I ask this cause I am currently programming a tool for myself to do that. Should I consider a search engine submission addon to make it usefull again. Or just abandon yet another "Great Idea" - LOL

    Having said that I am glad that google doesn't give your pages penalties for being the same content.

    I almost died when I considered how much time I had spent programming this tool already when I saw this post title

    cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I haven't offered my opinion of this thread because these days I am very
      careful about offering my opinion about anything.

      So I'm going to say just this and each person can take what they want
      from it.

      I have done many things during my 6 plus years of marketing that people
      told me NOT to do. Had I not done them, I wouldn't be where I am today.

      So to each person I say simply this.

      Do what you want to do. Test it out. See what kind of results you get.

      Then decide, based on those results, if you feel continuing the activity is
      worth your time or not.

      To me, that is the most sensible business decision that anybody can make.

      Of course that is just my opinion.
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      • Profile picture of the author DominicTFY
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I haven't offered my opinion of this thread because these days I am very
        careful about offering my opinion about anything.

        So I'm going to say just this and each person can take what they want
        from it.

        I have done many things during my 6 plus years of marketing that people
        told me NOT to do. Had I not done them, I wouldn't be where I am today.

        So to each person I say simply this.

        Do what you want to do. Test it out. See what kind of results you get.

        Then decide, based on those results, if you feel continuing the activity is
        worth your time or not.

        To me, that is the most sensible business decision that anybody can make.

        Of course that is just my opinion.
        Testing is the best way to tell whether a strategy works or not. So Steven, I absolutely agree with you. After all, the search engine and the internet changes their algorithm and the way they work from time to time. So who knows?

        What no longer works in the past could be working today and vice versa. Great advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Steven,

    I've missed seeing you around here as much!

    Unfortunately, as we both know, most people will not do their own testing. Why? I have no idea...it really doesn't take much more time and effort - just a little mental and schedule planning.

    To your post, I would like to say that if someone chooses not to test and be innovative in their mindset, then they will continue following the pack and doing what too many other people are already doing.

    There's a huge difference between following the pack and leading them...HUGE!

    Respectfully,
    Allen Graves
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      So if someone disagrees with your "cannon law" of IM....

      They are now followers?

      Funny, I thought it was about doing what's proven, as opposed to theory.

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      • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        So if someone disagrees with your "cannon law" of IM....

        They are now followers?

        Funny, I thought it was about doing what's proven, as opposed to theory.

        Not sure what a 'cannon law' is.

        I didn't mean that following the pack was a bad thing.

        I guess it depends on what mindset someone wants to have. If following what everyone else is already doing works for someone then that could very well be enough for them.

        All I meant was that there is a huge difference between following the pack and leading them (not meaning being a teacher or coach or Moses - but being one of the big dogs in your niche).

        I followed for years and it got me nowhere, becoming innovative and testing different things out got me over the top and right-side-up...so that's the mindset I am sticking with.

        AL
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Steven,

      I've missed seeing you around here as much!
      Oddly, I find I have less and less to say these days.

      For some, I am sure that is a good thing.

      Unfortunately, as we both know, most people will not do their own testing. Why? I have no idea...it really doesn't take much more time and effort - just a little mental and schedule planning.
      You're right. Most people see that somebody is doing something and
      because they say it works, will just jump in and do it. And then regardless
      of whether it is working for them or not, they'll keep doing it because
      somebody said they should.

      To your post, I would like to say that if someone chooses not to test and be innovative in their mindset, then they will continue following the pack and doing what too many other people are already doing.
      I think there is a thread somewhere on this forum about why we're sheep.

      I think it's a thread that everybody needs to read.

      There's a huge difference between following the pack and leading them...HUGE!
      While I am by no means a leader in the true sense of the word, I always
      do my own thing based on what works for me. If somebody suggests that
      I do something, I'll keep an open mind about it and give it an honest shot.
      But if I see that it's bringing me absolutely no return, or very little, I won't
      keep beating the dead horse.

      I've found a few things in my 6 plus years of slugging my way through this
      mine field that work for me. I will continue to do them until they no longer
      work. In the meantime, I am always on the lookout for new things that I
      can add to what I do.

      The Internet is constantly changing. At one time, banner advertising was
      HUGE, especially when banners first came out. Today, you need to be
      really creative with your banners to get anybody to click on them. You
      can't just throw any old thing up there and expect it to attract prospects.

      Who knows, maybe someday article marketing won't work at all. I
      certainly don't have any crystal ball that assures me that it will always
      be profitable, and anybody who believes that anything is forever is a fool.

      I at least know that much. MFA sites should have been a perfect lesson
      for anybody who thought that any income generation method that brought
      in thousands of dollars a month would continue to do so. Ask some of the
      old MFA owners what happened to their income. Same with Ebay today
      with the ban of digital goods at auctions.

      Nothing is forever, or has been said many times, "The only thing certain
      in life is death and taxes."

      And even the latter has been avoided by quite a few people in this world.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    You know what - there are a lot of different ideas on this thread, and some really good discussions going on.

    I just wanted to thank everyone for their input and for keeping things under control.

    I've gotten 3 or 4 PMs telling me that they cannot believe this thread hasn't started a huge fight and been deleted by now. Based on the last few months of article marketing hell-threads - I have to agree. LOL

    Thanks again,
    AL
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  • Profile picture of the author majidmaskat
    Hey doesn't submitting articles take a lot of time... i mean i have submitted one article at ezine, and it's still pending....please can you share how i should submit articles becasue i want to try article marketing
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  • Profile picture of the author robertstr
    Ok I have only one question, if you take the time and do a really good spin on an article, does this change the outcome? Currently I write one good article per week post to ezine and then when it is up I spin the article and use syndicate kahunna to have them post to their blogs in their network. I have yet to use a broadcasting article service ...any suggestions. I THINK that a good spun article is worth spreading..any thoughts?
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  • Profile picture of the author kkchoon
    I use Article Post Robot and other services to spin the articles, and I rewrite 3 ~4 times for each paragraph of the article and spin the title a lot!

    I find it very effective for back links and traffic, and from 1 article I can generate over 100+ 30% uniqueness article and over 300+ 20% unique articles.

    I suspect google will give higher point for more unique article and less for less unique article, and I don't think google will dis-count the link of duplicate articles, but a lot less weighted for sure!

    I don't really see the point of very mass distribution (over 1000+ sites), however, using Traffic kahuna, Article Post Robot and ArticleMarketingAutomation total up only 300+ different backlinks for each spin article, and I think it works well!

    If you think about it, it will be very hard for the search engine to 100% filter the spin article, especially when you spin it on sentences!

    The key to successful back links and traffic - Unique AIDA Article with Correct Targeted Keyword (Long tail).
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  • Profile picture of the author Royce24
    hey Allen quick ques i already have a article submitting sofware that i got long time ago so do you think it is not benficial to use it then since google will not count it for me
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    • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
      Originally Posted by Royce24 View Post

      hey Allen quick ques i already have a article submitting sofware that i got long time ago so do you think it is not benficial to use it then since google will not count it for me

      Hi Royce,

      Article submission software is not a problem. I actually use one of them to submit from time to time. It saves a lot of time and energy which can be used for running and tweaking your article campaign(s).

      This thread is speaking of third-party systems that submit to hundreds or thoudands of directories, usually without your control.

      AL
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    I agree on many fronts. But here's my take on this...

    Article directories that get any significant traffic at all do not have consumers browsing the directories. The only browsing consumers do is limited to the "related articles" section at the bottom of the article they ended up on FROM A SEARCH ENGINE QUERY.

    And these search engine results all point to EZA, ArticlesBase, and the like...not heylookatthesearticles.com or articlesforyourbrowsingpleasure.com.

    Let's go outside physical stats and "proof" for a minute. Let's say you, a consumer, are looking for a new laptop, a new puppy, a new desk, a new toaster and some laminate for your living room floor. Plug any non-IM products into the previous sentence.

    First of all, almost anyone who is going to buy these things has never even heard of EZA or GoArticles! And when they arrive there from a search query and see that it is an article directory, do you think they want to stick around and read articles? No! In most cases they're going to click the resource link or the back button.

    Secondly, (re: consumers) the search engines are often trumped by direct URL entry into the address bar. BestBuy.com, Dell.com, HomeDepot.com, AKC.org, Empire.com.

    When a directory gets thousands of hits a day from search engines, which all of the respectable ones do, the traffic from other sources becomes pretty much table scrap.

    From communication with dozens of article directory owners every week, they've all told me that their traffic comes from search engines, attributing that small amount of the "table scrap" to syndication, social networking, forums, blogs, etc... That's just the way it is right now.

    Ask any established article directory owner where the bulk of their traffic comes from...it's not a big secret.

    Yes, there are hits from niche blogs and social sites, but forget about internet marketing for a minute and think about this from an average Joe internet user standpoint...does that traffic consist of real consumers or are they just information seekers?

    Oh...and then there are the stats. Unfortunately, none of us are ever going to reveal those, so you either have to take us at our word...or not.

    Just keeping it real.

    AL
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    • Profile picture of the author BlogPiG.com
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      Hi Royce,

      Article submission software is not a problem. I actually use one of them to submit from time to time. It saves a lot of time and energy which can be used for running and tweaking your article campaign(s).

      This thread is speaking of third-party systems that submit to hundreds or thoudands of directories, usually without your control.

      AL
      Agreed, there is nothing wrong with submission software if used correctly, it's just like any other form of automation, my dishwasher for instance.

      Automation is a powerful way to continue to leverage a saturated market like article submissions, as long as you are automating better than the next guy you can survive, or even thrive, on smaller and smaller incremental benefits as you're grabbing more of them.

      And by automation I mean outsourcing too, it's all the same show.
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