How unique should a spun article be for google?

rooze

14 years ago

"....then i guess the less spun the better right!"

Bingo! Now use that same logic and work back through your post.

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marketinguk

14 years ago

Thanks for your input but my later comment was if google is okay with either approach, however before that i would like to get people's opinions on what they think from experience and also maybe what they have heard?
Thanks

Originally Posted by rooze

"....then i guess the less spun the better right!"

Bingo! Now use that same logic and work back through your post.

Thanks
1 reply

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rooze

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

Thanks for your input but my later comment was if google is okay with either approach, however before that i would like to get people's opinions on what they think from experience and also maybe what they have heard?
Thanks

Hello AP.

"i want to know from people with experience what they think/ and or have found google wants."

The main thing it wants is quality content whose origins can be firmly attached to your site. You'll find that most commercial spinning software fail on both accounts (quality and originality).
As far as looking for a specific percentage to shoot for, it's a little erroneous unless you know exactly what you're doing. For example, if an article is 70% unique, there's often enough of a footprint to lead back to the original article in the 30% section that isn't unique. The upshot is, it isn't unique and it has its origins outside of your domain.

I use spinning tools very occasionally and not for anything close to the project you've described above.
So my recommendation would be, under your specific conditions, don't do it. You'll have a sub-par website with poor readability and conversions and something which may or may not slip under Google's radar. (with the probability of success stacked against you).

Of course this won't be what you want to hear, since you've bought the software and you've already decided how good it is. But it's just my opinion based on having been there before.

Good luck.

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marketinguk

14 years ago

It's okay i can make suggestions to improve the software with the creator it's just a question of knowing if it could do with a change to this part of it as the spinner section is the only doubt i personally have.
Thanks

Originally Posted by rooze

Hello AP.

"i want to know from people with experience what they think/ and or have found google wants."

The main thing it wants is quality content whose origins can be firmly attached to your site. You'll find that most commercial spinning software fail on both accounts (quality and originality).
As far as looking for a specific percentage to shoot for, it's a little erroneous unless you know exactly what you're doing. For example, if an article is 70% unique, there's often enough of a footprint to lead back to the original article in the 30% section that isn't unique. The upshot is, it isn't unique and it has its origins outside of your domain.

I use spinning tools very occasionally and not for anything close to the project you've described above.
So my recommendation would be, under your specific conditions, don't do it. You'll have a sub-par website with poor readability and conversions and something which may or may not slip under Google's radar. (with the probability of success stacked against you).

Of course this won't be what you want to hear, since you've bought the software and you've already decided how good it is. But it's just my opinion based on having been there before.

Good luck.

Thanks
1 reply

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rooze

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

It's okay i can make suggestions to improve the software with the creator it's just a question of knowing if it could do with a change to this part of it as the spinner section is the only doubt i personally have.
Thanks

I understand. But it hooks up to TBS software and therein lies its weakness. You can set a high percentage uniqueness and get unreadable content. You can set a lower level and get more readable content but no search traffic. You can pitch somewhere in the middle and get unreadable and no traffic.

Which ever way you set it, it isn't going to give you something which pleases your visitors and Google.

You could of course look for another type of spinner with an API, but it's the concept that's flawed not the execution. TBS is probably as good as they come, it's just providing you with something which is no longer effective.

And you'll notice that I haven't even touched on the ethics of taking other peoples' hard work and spinning it into something close to gibberish :rolleyes:

EDIT: I should add, I'm not anti spinning software, I'm just against how it is utilized in 99% of the applications, including yours.

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marketinguk

14 years ago

It is hard for me to explain the context of this the software is not just scraping someone's artilce and spinning it, although it's true tbs does this. The software takes info from what people are talking about and commenting on a particular subject on twitter, facebook etc. and does so many things it's awesome and i really can't go into all the details it would take too long. However, this particular issue of spinning someone's content is what i'm asking about. I checked google's own guidlines and it says duplicate content is only a problem if tryping to manipualte the algorithm which implies to me otherwise it's okay anyway?
Thanks

Originally Posted by rooze

I understand. But it hooks up to TBS software and therein lies its weakness. You can set a high percentage uniqueness and get unreadable content. You can set a lower level and get more readable content but no search traffic. You can pitch somewhere in the middle and get unreadable and no traffic.

Which ever way you set it, it isn't going to give you something which pleases your visitors and Google.

You could of course look for another type of spinner with an API, but it's the concept that's flawed not the execution. TBS is probably as good as they come, it's just providing you with something which is no longer effective.

And you'll notice that I haven't even touched on the ethics of taking other peoples' hard work and spinning it into something close to gibberish :rolleyes:

Thanks
1 reply

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AdwordsMogul

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

....I checked google's own guidlines and it says duplicate content is only a problem if tryping to manipualte the algorithm which implies to me otherwise it's okay anyway?
Thanks

When you create spun content, by default you are manipulating the algorithm.

When Google says unique content they mean new, valuable information not the same thing rephrased by software.

Thanks
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marketinguk

14 years ago

Thanks but to get clear again i am not planning on just spinning the content and not putting any of my own thought and writing into it, just using it as a time and money saver and then adding to it, i really don't see what's wrong with this if anything?
Anyways great discussion going here everyone.
Thanks

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

When you create spun content, by default you are manipulating the algorithm.

When Google says unique content they mean new, valuable information not the same thing rephrased by software.

Thanks

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gcbmark20

14 years ago

I suppose you will just have to test this out first.

After all you will never know what actually works until you test things out.

hope this helps and good luck

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marketinguk

14 years ago

Well it doesn't really help me in terms of learning from others experience and understanding but thanks anyway for your opinion here.
Cheers

Originally Posted by gcbmark20

I suppose you will just have to test this out first.

After all you will never know what actually works until you test things out.

hope this helps and good luck

Thanks
1 reply

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PatriciaJ 14 years ago

I doubt that Google is ok with any spinning, but I'm pretty darned sure that Google and site visitors will be much happier with quality, original and readable content.
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AdwordsMogul

14 years ago

Google is not OK with spun articles in any form.

Google has a PDF report on search engine optimization. You should read it.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6061830

Thanks
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marketinguk 14 years ago

Where is this article please?

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Google is not OK with spun articles in any form.

Google has a PDF report on search engine optimization. You should read it.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
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- AdwordsMogul 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by affilliate pro
  
  Where is this article please?
  
  Hey,
  
  I've added the link to my post.
  
  http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6061830
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
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  Jean Paul a.k.a AdwordsMogul
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  ⇉ Easy Link Saver - Are you tired of the pain of constantly searching for your affiliate links? ( Chrome extension - FREE )
  
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GodMode52

14 years ago

Spun with software to 70% uniqueness and correct it manually to make it readable.. easy

Thanks
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marketinguk 14 years ago

Have you found this to work for you and achieve good results with your sites and if so how long has it taken on average to do this successfully for an average length article say 500 words and make it look readable and decent quality?
Thanks

Originally Posted by GodMode52

Spun with software to 70% uniqueness and correct it manually to make it readable.. easy
- Thanks
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rooze

14 years ago

"I checked google's own guidlines and it says duplicate content is only a problem if tryping to manipualte the algorithm which implies to me otherwise it's okay anyway?"

I haven't checked the validity of that statement but if it's true, why do you want to spin your content? Why not republish it and credit the author?

Or perhaps, you're trying to manipulate the algorithm into crediting you for being the original publisher and you've just quoted a passage from your own obituary?

However you word it, it comes back to being a flawed concept, Google doesn't like it, you're not smarter than Google, neither is the guy who has coded your app, so do it at your own risk/peril.
(That might come across as being a bit shirty, it wasn't intended to be).

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marketinguk

14 years ago

i am trying to get people's advice and suggestions not to trick google i genuinely want people's advice, and am happy to speak and discuss with the creator and see if thsi can be improved on! What about the above post about doing it to 70% uniqueness and then making it look presentable and readable i.e. not make it look like gobbledygook but decent content? Isn't that a fair answer to this?
Thanks

Originally Posted by rooze

"I checked google's own guidlines and it says duplicate content is only a problem if tryping to manipualte the algorithm which implies to me otherwise it's okay anyway?"

I haven't checked the validity of that statement but if it's true, why do you want to spin your content? Why not republish it and credit the author?

Or perhaps, you're trying to manipulate the algorithm into crediting you for being the original publisher and you've just quoted a passage from your own obituary?

However you word it, it comes back to being a flawed concept, Google doesn't like it, you're not smarter than Google, neither is the guy who has coded your app, so do it at your own risk/peril.
(That might come across as being a bit shirty, it wasn't intended to be).

Thanks

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dadamson

14 years ago

Google is getting more and more smart about their algorithms for checking spun content by checking synonyms and etc.

It is always better to write the content from scratch or at least completely reword it and reshuffle sentences. But by the time you do all that you may as well have written a new article.

Spun documents that work well in Google now will always risk not working in a few months down the track.

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marketinguk

14 years ago

Thanks Dave i appreciate your input here!

Originally Posted by dadamson

Google is getting more and more smart about their algorithms for checking spun content by checking synonyms and etc.

It is always better to write the content from scratch or at least completely reword it and reshuffle sentences. But by the time you do all that you may as well have written a new article.

Spun documents that work well in Google now will always risk not working in a few months down the track.

Thanks

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rooze

14 years ago

Sorry, but "i am trying to get people's advice and suggestions not to trick google" - what you are doing is the text book definition of trying to trick Google. If you can't see that then the only solution for you is to go ahead and spin your content and see what happens.

Try the 70% number that you've been quoted, it's as good a place to start as any.

Try doing some manual re-writes of the spun content for a while and see how that works for you.
My prediction - you'll get get fed up with it and start thinking, "wouldn't it just be easier to write this stuff from scratch, rather than trying to piece back together something which has been unwound and scrambled by TBS?"

You're not really looking for advice, you're looking for people to support what you already know and what you've already decided to do. You just need 3 people to give you the same percentage and you're off to the races.

70% works.

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marketinguk

14 years ago

Wow how you jump to conclusions and incorrect ones at that. I have actually contacted the creator to see what can be done here and if a spinner can be removed and replaced with something else. What i want to do is speed up the process and lower my cost which writing articles from scratch inevitably does. If this is not possible to do in a way which google is happy with then so be it and i will see what i think is best to do from here.
Thanks for your time and opinions anyhow

Originally Posted by rooze

Sorry, but "i am trying to get people's advice and suggestions not to trick google" - what you are doing is the text book definition of trying to trick Google. If you can't see that then the only solution for you is to go ahead and spin your content and see what happens.

Try the 70% number that you've been quoted, it's as good a place to start as any.

Try doing some manual re-writes of the spun content for a while and see how that works for you.
My prediction - you'll get get fed up with it and start thinking, "wouldn't it just be easier to write this stuff from scratch, rather than trying to piece back together something which has been unwound and scrambled by TBS?"

You're not really looking for advice, you're looking for people to support what you already know and what you've already decided to do. You just need 3 people to give you the same percentage and you're off to the races.

70% works.

Thanks
1 reply

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rooze 14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

I have actually contacted the creator to see what can be done here..

Well if you've contacted the Creator then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Just follow his/her advice and you're all set.
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- marketinguk 14 years ago
  
  Correct that's my preference here. If however he came back and said i can't change it then in the worst case scenario i think correct me if i'm wrong that it may still be a time and money saver to spin and then make some changes to make it look how i would like it? If the rest of the software was mediocre i probably wouldn't discuss this further but because it's really good from start to finish and particualrly saves a ton of time on research and website creation i want to have a backup plan so to speak!
  Thanks a lot
  
  Originally Posted by rooze
  
  Well if you've contacted the Creator then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Just follow his/her advice and you're all set.
  
  Thanks
  
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gentryliving

14 years ago

Article spinner does not give you 305 to 40% quality content. I have been using several article spinner but i always get frustrated every time i saw the result.

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simon15

14 years ago

I guess it all depends on how many spins you want to use it for, I like to do a super spun article of 100%, I write the first article and then re-write each sentance andn then spin it word by word. I use TBS but even tough I use that if you use auto spin you can end up getting garbage. A good quality spun article takes ages to do.

Thanks

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piermichel

14 years ago

Do not try to spin the entire article that you get from only one source. Get several pieces of paragraph from several articles, rearrange them to give it more sense then spun the article to your best. Correct and rephrase certain part of it to make it readable, for this you will have to rewrite the intro, the conclusion and some parts of the main body. It takes little bit of your time but it worth a lot later on.

Thanks

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marketinguk

14 years ago

It seems Alexa Smith also jumps to conclusion about me trying to trick google which simply isn't the case i.e. by her thanks to the above posts suggesting i am. As stated i have contacted the original creator to look into this and i was anyways planning in the worst case scenario to spin it and then rewrite some of it in my own words to make it solid and readable, there is nothing wrong with this as far as a am concerned!

Thanks
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AdwordsMogul

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

It seems Alexa Smith also jumps to conclusion about me trying to trick google which simply isn't the case i.e. ....

Well, the problem is by doing this you are only hurting yourself.

Look at it this way. If you write original content, and even rewrite without spinning you will begin to improve not just your writing but also ability to create high quality information.

As time goes on, your content will be held in higher regard by other people. Soon you'll become an authority and therefore you will be in position to make way more money.

If you keep doing this, you'll always produce poor/mediocre content that nobody cares about.

Next Google algorithm update - you lose all your work.

Forget about right and wrong => in this context what you are doing is simply not practical, if you want to make the most money.

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marketinguk

14 years ago

I understand your point - fair enough. Others would have a different approach to this and see nothing wrong with this as a time saving measure but that doesn't in any way detract from your suggestion.
Thanks

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Well, the problem is by doing this you are only hurting yourself.

Look at it this way. If you write original content, and even rewrite without spinning you will begin to improve not just your writing but also ability to create high quality information.

As time goes on, your content will be held in higher regard by other people. Soon you'll become an authority and therefore you will be in position to make way more money.

If you keep doing this, you'll always produce poor/mediocre content that nobody cares about.

Next Google algorithm update - you lose all your work.

Forget about right and wrong => in this context what you are doing is simply not practical, if you want to make the most money.

Thanks

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veheme

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

If you keep doing this, you'll always produce poor/mediocre content that nobody cares about.

Next Google algorithm update - you lose all your work.

Forget about right and wrong => in this context what you are doing is simply not practical, if you want to make the most money.

I believe the OP is simply talking in terms of creating backlinks for his site. You have to understand that 99.9% of the articles which get posted from the spin articles are not read by humans but by spiders. Therefore, people actually do not care about the quality because they can't find the article in the first place (unless they go to page 30 just to find what they are looking for).

And no, the Google updates won't let you lose all your work. ALL my sites have gone through hundreds of updates and I have NEVER even once experienced any losing of work because of spun content being distributed for backlinks.

@OP As a tip, in my backlinking efforts, I create 2 spin articles. 1 spin article is high in quality (minimum of 3 sentence spins and word spin) and they are sent to PR1+ directories. The other spin article is only spun in word level and I send them to PR0 directories.

Thanks
2 replies

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marketinguk

14 years ago

I am talking about pages for websites actually and how to get the right balance here between unique content and spun content!
Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Originally Posted by MrJayJay

I believe the OP is simply talking in terms of creating backlinks for his site. You have to understand that 99.9% of the articles which get posted from the spin articles are not read by humans but by spiders. Therefore, people actually do not care about the quality because they can't find the article in the first place (unless they go to page 30 just to find what they are looking for).

And no, the Google updates won't let you lose all your work. ALL my sites have gone through hundreds of updates and I have NEVER even once experienced any losing of work because of spun content being distributed for backlinks.

@OP As a tip, in my backlinking efforts, I create 2 spin articles. 1 spin article is high in quality (minimum of 3 sentence spins and word spin) and they are sent to PR1+ directories. The other spin article is only spun in word level and I send them to PR0 directories.

Thanks
1 reply

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veheme

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

I am talking about pages for websites actually and how to get the right balance here between unique content and spun content!
Sorry if that wasn't clear.

If you are referring to multiple sites (which you will rank or try to rank) in the same niche then I recommend that you avoid spinning. It's too big of a footprint.

Thanks
1 reply

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marketinguk

14 years ago

It's strange i think your backlink practice is actually a very risky game as you are clearly manipulating the algorithm. My whole discussion is about whether spun content at various levels is acceptable or not (and possibly adding some of my own twists to it to make it readable etc.), and there are different views on this i accept that, however what you are doing there is no doubt is dodgy to say the least.

Originally Posted by MrJayJay

If you are referring to multiple sites (which you will rank or try to rank) in the same niche then I recommend that you avoid spinning. It's too big of a footprint.

Thanks
1 reply

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veheme

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

It's strange i think your backlink practice is actually a very risky game as you are clearly manipulating the algorithm. My whole discussion is about whether spun content at various levels is acceptable or not (and possibly adding some of my own twists to it to make it readable etc.), and there are different views on this i accept that, however what you are doing there is no doubt is dodgy to say the least.

Not really risky in my experience. The only risk I get is that my site will be penalized (which is yet to happen despite experiencing numerous Panda Updates). I only stay from blog networks which are generally risky but for everything else, I admittedly do gray hat stuff (call it black hat? go ahead). It has helped me rank in top 3 for ALL my sites and my clients' sites. No regrets whatsoever.

Thanks
1 reply

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marketinguk

14 years ago

Of course it's risky google is slowly clamping down on lots of different backlink techniques, like recently it's been blog networks but tomorrow who knows your methods could come under scrutiny, and if the worst happened your business and that of your clients will go up in smoke.
However, it's your call of course and if you're happy with it then so be it.

Originally Posted by MrJayJay

Not really risky in my experience. The only risk I get is that my site will be penalized (which is yet to happen despite experiencing numerous Panda Updates). I only stay from blog networks which are generally risky but for everything else, I admittedly do gray hat stuff (call it black hat? go ahead). It has helped me rank in top 3 for ALL my sites and my clients' sites. No regrets whatsoever.

Thanks
1 reply

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veheme

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affilliate pro

Of course it's risky google is slowly clamping down on lots of different backlink techniques, like recently it's been blog networks but tomorrow who knows your methods could come under scrutiny, and if the worst happened your business and that of your clients will go up in smoke.
However, it's your call of course and if you're happy with it then so be it.

Google has been clamping down on EVERY blackhat methods every Panda update. It's what they say and do 10 years ago and that is what they still say and do now.

In my case, I only do SEO on sites which I know will benefit people. In a way, I like to think of it as "helping" people or "directing" people into awesome sites which they can learn much from.

Thanks
1 reply

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marketinguk

14 years ago

Whatever, good luck with your sites and that of your clients (btw i'm not being sarcastic)

Originally Posted by MrJayJay

Google has been clamping down on EVERY blackhat methods every Panda update. It's what they say and do 10 years ago and that is what they still say and do now.

In my case, I only do SEO on sites which I know will benefit people. In a way, I like to think of it as "helping" people or "directing" people into awesome sites which they can learn much from.

Thanks

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AdwordsMogul

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MrJayJay

I believe the OP is simply talking in terms of creating backlinks for his site. ...

So, in effect manipulating the algorithm.

In any case, I don't really believe the rest of your post -maybe you are saying the truth, maybe not.

Possibly I'm being too idealistic, nevertheless spun content is ALWAYS low quality by default.

Thanks
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marketinguk

14 years ago

I agree with you that this is manipulating the algorithm i am against this as well and google normally sooner or later works this out and penalises the site, and i'm also not sure if what he said is accurate or true!

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

So, in effect manipulating the algorithm.

In any case, I don't really believe the rest of your post -maybe you are saying the truth, maybe not.

Possibly I'm being too idealistic, nevertheless spun content is ALWAYS low quality by default.

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Koolsteve

14 years ago

You can spin and spin and spin again but you won't convince Copyscape.com and Google. I used to rely totally on spinning software thinking I could not write a 500 word article. One day I forced myself to start writing and it took me hours to write a decent article. I persisted and by the 10th article I had increased my speed of research and article writing to under 30 minutes completion. I have never looked back since. It gives you such a buzz when you write a unique article on a given subject. Plus you learn so much during the process. Forget the software option.

As an option, there are 1,000's of good copywriters who will produce good unique content for you and at a very reasonable price.

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Koolsteve

14 years ago

Following on from my previous answer - do you realise "affilliate pro" that you have written many 100's of words in this thread researching a subject you wanted answers for. How easy was that for you? Now go and write a unique article - so easy - yes?

Thanks
1 reply

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marketinguk

14 years ago

True. I am in discussions with my software creator to look into this and see how this part of the process could be done without using tbs, and he will get back to me soon. I hope it will be possible as the software is quite complex. Whatever the case i agree with your point!

Originally Posted by Koolsteve

Following on from my previous answer - do you realise "affilliate pro" that you have written many 100's of words in this thread researching a subject you wanted answers for. How easy was that for you? Now go and write a unique article - so easy - yes?

Thanks

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How unique should a spun article be for google?

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