The Truth About Kindle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

That is a nutshell is the secret to KDP today - a year from now KDP will be fried.

I agree with the data and information in your thread, but I don't agree with the quoted comment.

KDP is a marketplace like any other -- one of the biggest marketplaces in the world.

Your statement is tantamount to saying that people will stop buying books in one year, OR Wal-Mart will be toast in the next 12 months...

Sorry, but your prediction is rubbish.

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MidlandsMarketer

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I agree with the data and information in your thread, but I don't agree with the quoted comment.

KDP is a marketplace like any other -- one of the biggest marketplaces in the world.

Your statement is tantamount to saying that people will stop buying books in one year, OR Wal-Mart will be toast in the next 12 months...

Sorry, but your prediction is rubbish.

Yah, as a Kindle owner I can definitely say that the Kindle Marketplace will not be 'fried' at any point soon.
I tend to download a couple of books a week (nothing IM related, mind) and can't see this ever changing as long as the marketplace exists.

Yes, it will become more and more competitive because of increased competition. But, from a reader's point of view this is fantastic news

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gareth

12 years ago

DUH - Once marketers start competing with PPC to get best seller status IT WILL BE FRIED!!!

Just like adsense, google cash, generator sites, authority blogs, blah blah blah

Trust me.

It will be good for Amazon when this happens - not for book sellers.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

DUH - Once marketers start competing with PPC to get best seller status IT WILL BE FRIED!!!

Just like adsense, google cash, generator sites, authority blogs, blah blah blah

Trust me.

It will be good for Amazon when this happens - not for book sellers.

Blah, blah, blah...

I don't trust people who live in a fantasy world.

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CDarklock 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

DUH - Once marketers start competing with PPC to get best seller status IT WILL BE FRIED!!!

No it won't. Because "best seller" does not mean, and has never meant, "good book."

Case in point:

What you are calling "fried" is really "I will not make as large a profit from as small an investment of time and money."

That is not "fried." That is "you suck." The solution to that problem is "don't suck."
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gareth

12 years ago

Yeah but this is a marketing forum - not an el cheapo kindle book readers forum

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gareth

12 years ago

What exactly is your objection Bill ?

Just remember the adsense mania my friend - rock solid business opportunity --> for google

How ever if I am wrong thats good - coz then other folks wont be using PPC to get up the ranks.

But we both know it will happen.

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Gareth,

You're forgetting another important part of the sales equation with KDP: Reviews.

You can drive traffic, but if enough customers say your book sucks, it ain't gonna sell.

Paul
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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

What exactly is your objection Bill ?

Just remember the adsense mania my friend - rock solid business opportunity --> for google

How ever if I am wrong thats good - coz then other folks wont be using PPC to get up the ranks.

But we both know it will happen.

Biz Opp is such a small marketplace compared to the consumer book selling industry.

The consumer book selling industry did $14.348 billion in 2011.

The only reason some of those opps declined is because they were being abused and the powers-that-be crippled them. Google decided that they did not like the adsense mania, because it was being abused, and their advertising customers were getting the short end of the stick -- you know, those people who actually put money into Google's pockets.

Google had to clean house to keep their advertisers happy, which they do to ensure that they will continue to make money.

Amazon and other book sellers are happy with anything that helps them sell books, so long as it does not hurt their overall reputation in the marketplace. PPC advertising is not going to hurt their sales, but rather help their sales, without hurting their brand. In fact, PPC will help their brand.

I am already using paid advertising for my books in the Kindle marketplace, so yes, people will use paid advertising to market their Kindle books.

But the use of paid advertising will not destroy this industry or the Amazon marketplace. Paid advertising will help -- not hurt -- book sales.

So therefore, PPC will not "fry" the Kindle marketplace next year or any year thereafter.

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gareth

12 years ago

Paul:

Yes sure if you are putting up junk.

While, when marketers begin to get cut throat on KDP (which they are not yet) will be good for Amazon, some thing which can actually kill KDP and even Amazon and the publishing industry is AI generated content.

This will happen in 5 years. The PPC thing with KDP will be happening next year.

Bill:

Anybody "selling" ebooks on KDP will find it increasingly tougher as more people start to compete using PPC.

Eventually it will be yesterdays opportunity, by 2014.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

Bill:

Anybody "selling" ebooks on KDP will find it increasingly tougher as more people start to compete using PPC.

Eventually it will be yesterdays opportunity, by 2014.

As with any opportunity, only the strong will survive.

Personally, I don't fear competition. If I run into competition, I compete more effectively.

Maybe KDP will be "fried" for those who are only looking for the next easy biz opp, but it will always produce revenues to those who are committed to success through selling books in that marketplace.

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InternetSuccess001

12 years ago

hehe, looking at your avatar... are you one of those AI people?

As for AI, you could already get fairly good AI content about 10 years ago (in comp sci, not referring to the article spinning garbage)... but I do agree, some of the AI content is becoming better and better...

Johnathan

Originally Posted by gareth

Paul:

Yes sure if you are putting up junk.

While, when marketers begin to get cut throat on KDP (which they are not yet) will be good for Amazon, some thing which can actually kill KDP and even Amazon and the publishing industry is AI generated content.

This will happen in 5 years. The PPC thing with KDP will be happening next year.

Bill:

Anybody "selling" ebooks on KDP will find it increasingly tougher as more people start to compete using PPC.

Eventually it will be yesterdays opportunity, by 2014.

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gareth

12 years ago

Certainly thats true and its very interesting that many of these ventures have a similar development cycle in terms of marketing and growth.

Right now a killing can be made as KDP is in an exponential growth phase & the marketers have not quite become aggressive as they do eventually - like sharks at a feeding frenzy.

Android apps for the augmented reality glasses just creeping onto the market will be big by 2014.

Its nice to know that tech is bringing growth opportunities ahead but it will also slash entire industries from existence.

I don't think publishing will be a viable business 5-10 years from now.

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tpw 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

I don't think publishing will be a viable business 5-10 years from now.

See, there you go with the fantasy again... :rolleyes:

As long as people want to learn, there will be books that teach them what they want to know.

So long as people want to be entertained, there will be books and movies to entertain them.

Those books will exist in either physical or digital format, but books will always be here, unless people discover that the Matrix system of plugging information into one's head can be a reality...

But the Matrix system of "plugging in" is pure fantasy, period.

I am even willing to bet that if people had the ability to plug-in knowledge like that, they would still be reading books for the "joy of reading".
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InternetSuccess001

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

Certainly thats true and its very interesting that many of these ventures have a similar development cycle in terms of marketing and growth.

Right now a killing can be made as KDP is in an exponential growth phase & the marketers have not quite become aggressive as they do eventually - like sharks at a feeding frenzy.

Android apps for the augmented reality glasses just creeping onto the market will be big by 2014.

Its nice to know that tech is bringing growth opportunities ahead but it will also slash entire industries from existence.

I don't think publishing will be a viable business 5-10 years from now.

It will be a viable industry, it will just 'change'. The same was the last 15 years has revolutionized the publishing industry. (Who woulda 'thunk' you could "read" a book on your "tv" in the 1990s, let alone want to pay for a book that you read on your t.v.? That is essentially the way you would have to described it to someone from 1991-1992...)

The format and media will be different, but authors will still be able to get paid for works.

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Mark Singletary 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

I don't think publishing will be a viable business 5-10 years from now.

Seriously? Hundreds of years of publishing is going to vanish because of Android apps?

As Kindle grows of course they are going to make adjustments to their editorial and business policies. Every business does.

Marketers using questionable techniques may make it harder just like they have with Google, that's true. They may make companies change things like Ebay not allowing downloads anymore (has to be a physical product). Companies may make it harder for hyped up products and sales pitches to succeed like Paypal and others have.

But publishing going away? No way.

Mark
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cashcow 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

I don't think publishing will be a viable business 5-10 years from now.

I think this is probably true for people who are just looking for a quick buck, but for people who actually want to be in the business of publishing books I think it will always be viable.

Lee
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gareth

12 years ago

You guys are not reading my words correctly.

I have told you...

1. By using PPC you can game KDP and be a best seller over night - true

2. That as more marketers start doing this KDP will be more difficult to make money on - true

3. That AI will replace human writers between 2015-2020 - true

Yes the entire publishing industry will no longer exist by 2020.

Can you stomach that ?

Amazon will collapse - no longer a viable business. The short news style articles are already being produced by a software company for newspapers and news blogs. Thats just the beginning.

By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.

The human publishing industry will not exist by 2020.

A computer will not take a year to write a quality book. Or a day. In the timescale 2015-2020 we will see AI software that can produce thousands if not millions of completed books in a day.

This is a fact. Publishing will be decimated in this decade.

But my post was about Kindle...

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

You guys are not reading my words correctly.

I have told you...

1. By using PPC you can game KDP and be a best seller over night - true

2. That as more marketers start doing this KDP will be more difficult to make money on - true

3. That AI will replace human writers between 2015-2020 - true

Yes the entire publishing industry will no longer exist by 2020.

Can you stomach that ?

Amazon will collapse - no longer a viable business. The short news style articles are already being produced by a software company for newspapers and news blogs. Thats just the beginning.

By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.

The human publishing industry will not exist by 2020.

A computer will not take a year to write a quality book. Or a day. In the timescale 2015-2020 we will see AI software that can produce thousands if not millions of completed books in a day.

This is a fact. Publishing will be decimated in this decade.

But my post was about Kindle...

What kind of drugs are you taking exactly?

They must be awesome!!

Originally Posted by gareth

1. By using PPC you can game KDP and be a best seller over night - true

True

Originally Posted by gareth

2. That as more marketers start doing this KDP will be more difficult to make money on - true

True

Originally Posted by gareth

3. That AI will replace human writers between 2015-2020 - true

LOL

Pipe Dream...

Originally Posted by gareth

Yes the entire publishing industry will no longer exist by 2020.

Drug-induced hallucination...

Originally Posted by gareth

Amazon will collapse - no longer a viable business.

LOL

Pure fantasy...

Originally Posted by gareth

By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

Pure fiction...

Originally Posted by gareth

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.

LOL

And, Pee-Wee Herman will be selling out in the box office again in a theater near you.

Originally Posted by gareth

The human publishing industry will not exist by 2020.

I have heard rumors that Edgar Allen Poe consumed a lot of drugs also...

Originally Posted by gareth

A computer will not take a year to write a quality book. Or a day. In the timescale 2015-2020 we will see AI software that can produce thousands if not millions of completed books in a day.

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

In this context, "almost surely" is a mathematical term with a precise meaning, and the "monkey" is not an actual monkey, but a metaphor for an abstract device that produces a random sequence of letters and symbols ad infinitum. The probability of a monkey exactly typing a complete work such as Shakespeare's Hamlet is so tiny that the chance of it occurring during a period of time even a hundred thousand orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe is extremely low, but not actually zero.

-- Source

Originally Posted by gareth

This is a fact. Publishing will be decimated in this decade.

This is NOT a fact. This is a supposition.

It will only become fact if it ever comes to pass.

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cashp0wer 12 years ago

I don't see the KDP going anymore any time soon. I expect it to grow instead of weaken. I guess the future will tell us.
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EricGuimond

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

You guys are not reading my words correctly.

I have told you...

1. By using PPC you can game KDP and be a best seller over night - true

2. That as more marketers start doing this KDP will be more difficult to make money on - true

3. That AI will replace human writers between 2015-2020 - true

Yes the entire publishing industry will no longer exist by 2020.

Can you stomach that ?

Amazon will collapse - no longer a viable business. The short news style articles are already being produced by a software company for newspapers and news blogs. Thats just the beginning.

By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.

The human publishing industry will not exist by 2020.

A computer will not take a year to write a quality book. Or a day. In the timescale 2015-2020 we will see AI software that can produce thousands if not millions of completed books in a day.

This is a fact. Publishing will be decimated in this decade.

But my post was about Kindle...

About 15 years ago I remember seeing a program claiming that by 2015, we could put our brains into a computer type body and live forever. Clearly, unless something drastic happens in the next two years that won't be the case.

Claiming things as fact in the future is never a good idea. Maybe you think this will happen, but it isn't a fact.

If AI was that advanced in less than two decades from now it would mean almost every human wouldn't be needed, yet I don't see wide-spread panic

Now to get back on topic, IMO amazon/kindle will only be a growing opportunity. Will it be more competitive? Yes... But like Bill said, competition is good, creates better product and more opportunities!

Eric

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dotips

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

1. By using PPC you can game KDP and be a best seller over night - true

.. As English is not my primary language, may be I miss something but I can't see the link between the PPC used for advertising and... The 'potentially end' of the whole publishing industry in general ?

As far as I know PPC - as any way of promoting - may be wrong or well-used then it changes the rules of the game, but the game itself is still running and working, then changing based on the user experience and not the other way around.

Originally Posted by gareth

2. That as more marketers start doing this KDP will be more difficult to make money on - true

.. So according your theory we could also easily claim that, as more marketers start doing any business, then any business is going to be more difficult to make money on. I love theories man, BTW it's actually damn good to develop theories when it comes to write some kind of ebooks, as the end of world, the arrival of Aliens and so on..

.. But when it comes to biz', I prefer facts than theories. Then what about the fact that, most of the marketers starting doing a business do not take truly action ?

And what about the fact that - for a hot and consistently growing market like publishing is - the volume for sales/customers is growing far more, than the volume of marketers doing actually money with ?

Originally Posted by gareth

3. That AI will replace human writers between 2015-2020 - true

Yes Man. Except if space invaders are coming before, with a world waiting and begging Uncle Sam to deliver us. Or may be before that, the world will explode, or land in a quantum reality :rolleyes:

.. C'mon man, what don't you use your inspiration to write some fiction about AI's invasion, instead of writing such nonsenses here ? And why not AI's replacing the readers as well? Lol

Originally Posted by gareth

Yes the entire publishing industry will no longer exist by 2020.

.. I think you should clean your crystal ball, it must be seriously dusty

Originally Posted by tpw

What kind of drugs are you taking exactly?

They must be awesome!!

I'd say absinthe, as our French author Arthur Raimbaud. But the effects seems to be completely different on Gareth. May be he mixed up with some additional drug, I don't want to know which one ever lol .

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by dotips

Yes the entire publishing industry will no longer exist by 2020.

.. I think you should clean your crystal ball, it must be seriously dusty

Unfortunately, you attributed something that "gareth" said to me.

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dotips 12 years ago

Hi Man lol sorry I wrong pasted a 'Quote' :p

I'll fix that ;-) Cheers

DOt
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Sarevok

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

You guys are not reading my words correctly.

I have told you...

1. By using PPC you can game KDP and be a best seller over night - true

2. That as more marketers start doing this KDP will be more difficult to make money on - true

3. That AI will replace human writers between 2015-2020 - true

Yes the entire publishing industry will no longer exist by 2020.

Can you stomach that ?

Amazon will collapse - no longer a viable business. The short news style articles are already being produced by a software company for newspapers and news blogs. Thats just the beginning.

By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.

The human publishing industry will not exist by 2020.

A computer will not take a year to write a quality book. Or a day. In the timescale 2015-2020 we will see AI software that can produce thousands if not millions of completed books in a day.

This is a fact. Publishing will be decimated in this decade.

But my post was about Kindle...

AI content generators aren't as easy to code as the simple "spinner" applications that are 300 lines of code max.

Of course AI content generators are very real (one in particular exists today) but they aren't cheap, or easy to create.

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RhondaG 12 years ago

Nice to meet you God, I didn't know you were on the forum (Garath) I guess he knows when the world is going to end too.
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- tpw 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by RhondaG
  
  Nice to meet you God, I didn't know you were on the forum (Garath) I guess he knows when the world is going to end too.
  
  We have all been promised when the world is going to end -- Dec 21st, 2012....
  
  Which rock have you been hiding under? :p
  
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  RhondaG 12 years ago
  
  lol, I forgot about that. I guess I should not have been so mean. Just had a weird day and when I saw all that stuff about what's going to happen I thought. Man, must be nice to know the future, lol
  
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Shane N

12 years ago

By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.

That doesn't mean people will want them. Or that they will want books ONLY written by AI.

The human publishing industry will not exist by 2020.

Isn't the world ending THIS YEAR?

Best,
Shane

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saiidah

12 years ago

i agree with the internet marketing aspect of this argument but not the

'By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.'

aspect. This is nonsense. it may be possible for non-fiction books, by a long stretch maybe, but for fiction it is difficult to see.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by saiidah

i agree with the internet marketing aspect of this argument but not the

'By 2015 AI will be able to write actual non- fiction books in any genre. They will pass as high quality human written.

By 2020 AI will be writing human passable high quality novels.'

aspect. This is nonsense. it may be possible for non-fiction books, by a long stretch maybe, but for fiction it is difficult to see.

It is impossible to see -- even with non-fiction.

People buy books that they want to read. If they read the book and they don't like it, they leave bad reviews and ask for refunds.

Can a computer AI application develop the kinds of materials that people want to read?

I seriously doubt it.

Computer AI will be able to construct proper sentences, but they will never be able to create anything more than a dry read.

Even in non-fiction, it is the storytelling element that makes a book good and worthy of reading. A computer will never be able to weave those interesting stories into the subject material.

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GMT

12 years ago

Interesting take on KDP, I haven't messed with it much myself but it was in the "todo list" so thanks for the details, I can see it being profitable under the current model.

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gareth

12 years ago

Just do your due diligence prior to entering KDP

Drill down through the categories and paste them out on paper so you can see the ranking structure

Then analyse the rankings for the top sellers in the categories & sub categories

Assess the sales per day from those figures and look at the prices & actual profits being made by those top books.

Often you will see trends and topics that are more popular than others.

Like I say 2000 or so books are making $1000 per week or more for the publisher by my crude estimate. These are carefully written books.

I have not drilled deeper into the lower rankings so some people will be making a living off a shotgun approach but I don't know how many yet.

PS: Those in disagreement with my AI predictions are wrong ;-)

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tpw 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

PS: Those in disagreement with my AI predictions are wrong ;-)

By your testimony, we will all know who is wrong in about 8 years. :p
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paul wolfe 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

PS: Those in disagreement with my AI predictions are wrong ;-)

Gareth

I'd be interested in seeing any sources/links/research that you've done on the AI angle.

Paul
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- drmani 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by paul wolfe
  
  Gareth
  I'd be interested in seeing any sources/links/research that you've done on the AI angle.
  Paul
  
  You may like Ray Kurzweil's book.
  
  Amazon.com: The Singularity Is Near: When Humans...
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trialjenym 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

PS: Those in disagreement with my AI predictions are wrong ;-)

I thought it's going to be the end of the world this year... LOL Well, I just hope that your predictions are right anyway, it's your prediction. However, you can't expect that everybody will be in the same boat as you.
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domainarama

12 years ago

I agree with this statement by Mr Thomas "Once marketers start competing with PPC [and other dubious techniques he does not list] to get best seller status IT WILL BE FRIED!!!

Just like adsense, google cash, generator sites, authority blogs, blah blah blah"

Publishing is undergoing revolutionary changes these days and has lost its moorings. People will always have a need for information. But if the things which are published are ersatz or fake or dubious people will migrate away from the old ways.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by domainarama

While Bill Platt is a nice guy and has a nice sense of humor, I take what he says with a huge grain of salt. Huge!!!! Such as this quote: "Amazon and other book sellers are happy with anything that helps them sell books"

My recent contact with Mr Platt is in the Kindle arena. Lots of people are selling Kindle publishing WSOs. Mr Platt has a toe in that field. I am not sure of everything he publishes on Kindle. I know that one WSO he is enthusiastic about teaches how to go onto writers' websites, make offers to writers to buy their otherwise-abandoned manuscripts, buys what is proffered, then puts these manuscripts into new form (covers and all) to be sold on Kindle.

What Mr Pratt does is legal and sensible to a point. But it contains the seeds of its own destruction. It has a limited lifespan and threatens to bring down the roof onto itself.

In the end, what Mr Pratt and the followers of the WSO which birthed this technique are doing is polluting the stream of Kindle books with look-alikes which the writers have otherwise abandoned. The reader, the buyer is spending money for a second-rate product fancied up to look like better products.

After a while people who buy books will catch on that buying Kindle books is a gamble. Some are real books, some are abandoned also-ran books. Kindle will eventually have to clean house, just the same way it recently cleaned house of PLR books.

Publishing is undergoing revolutionary changes these days and has lost its moorings. People will always have a need for information. But if the things which are published are ersatz or fake or dubious people will migrate away from the old ways.

LOL

You are off on a tangent...

You are making a lot of assumptions about the techniques discussed in that WSO that just are not true.

You are assuming that if a writer has never found a publisher for his/her manuscript that the manuscript must be garbage.

In that sir, you would be wrong.

Many great authors have been turned down by major publishers over and again, but through persistence alone, they found the success they were so richly deserving:

Stephen King's "Carrie" was rejected 12 times.

J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter" was rejected 12 times. It was only accepted by the 13th publisher, because the publisher's 8yo daughter begged him to publish it.

Margaret Mitchell's "Gone With the Wind" was rejected 38 times!!

Meg Cabot's "The Princess Diaries" was rejected 17 times.

Source - "30 Famous Authors Whose Works Were Rejected Repeatedly"

You are assuming that I am a garbage peddler, who is creating the seeds for the destruction of the Kindle marketplace.

Sir, you are wrong to assume such things.

I write and buy quality manuscripts that my audiences will be "happy to have read".

I write my own manuscripts. I pay quality writers to produce quality books for me. And I buy quality manuscripts that have been abandoned by their authors.

If the book that I purchase needs work, hey, I have editors on my payroll too.

The bottom line is that I buy quality, and I spend money to make sure that I am publishing real quality books to the Amazon / Kindle marketplace.

You obviously don't know me, nor have you read anything I have produced in any format, or else you would not be making such bold accusations about the nature of my business and my business practices.

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domainarama

12 years ago

"30 Famous Authors Whose Works Were Rejected Repeatedly"

One of the winners of the recent $6xx million lottery bought one ticket. How many people bought losing tickets? How many authors have had wrks rejected repeatedly? How many of the authors who have had works rejected repeatedly eventually achieved success with their rejected manuscripts?

If you have a stable of writers and editors why are they not producing original work? What need do they have of abandoned manuscripts of authors they do not collaborate with?

Is the work of your stable of writers and editors of lower or higher quality than the work of the authors who have abandoned their manuscripts? Who needs whom more?

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by domainarama

One of the winners of the recent $6xx million lottery bought one ticket. How many people bought losing tickets? How many authors have had wrks rejected repeatedly? How many of the authors who have had works rejected repeatedly eventually achieved success with their rejected manuscripts?

If you have a stable of writers and editors why are they not producing original work? What need do they have of abandoned manuscripts of authors they do not collaborate with?

Is the work of your stable of writers and editors of lower or higher quality than the work of the authors who have abandoned their manuscripts? Who needs whom more?

More incorrect assumptions.

All of my writers produce original works.

However, I do on occasion buy abandoned manuscripts, because I believe that some of those are either worthy of publication in their current form OR they can be made worthy of publication.

I don't buy everything that lands on my desk. I only buy a manuscript that I believe to be of real value or that I believe can have real value with some tender care.

By purchasing abandoned manuscripts that I believe are worth saving, I am simply speeding my production cycle, without taking on new writers.

When I was providing ghost writing services in the article marketing niche, I was going through 35 writers to find one keeper.

After a decade of experience, I have found that I have better success hiring book writers than I did hiring article writers, but I still go through 5 writers to find one keeper.

It is an expensive process to find writers to put on my payroll. But since I have adopted the practice of buying abandoned manuscripts, I find that I am able to maintain my growth, without limiting my growth to only what my writers can produce.

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BillyPilgrim 12 years ago

Props to CD for pimp slapping the correct. Time for your tin foil cap, Gareth.
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Legit SEO

12 years ago

So what is the point you are trying to get across?

That Amazon is going to collapse because of Kindle and the world will be run by robots soon?

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gareth

12 years ago

Blacksmiths and poop scoopers never suffered so dearly.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ally-here.html

IBM Watson etc etc

Tech transitions happen fast these days - thats why I say by 2020

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paul wolfe 12 years ago

Thanks for that link.

Really interesting.
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WebPen

12 years ago

I was kind of confused on where you were going with all of this as well.

You're just saying to produce high quality books to sell on Kindle instead of garbage ones?

Or are you saying the Internet will only have robot-created content by 2020?

Whatever you're saying- I don't think publishing is going anywhere in the next 10 years.

It will change, but it will still be there.

Just like some people will only purchase stuff "Made in U.S.A.", there will be people who only buy stuff "Written by Humans"

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gareth

12 years ago

Well I'm saying that for the next 12 months you can totally kill it on kindle if you are cunning

I did not intend for this thread to become a discussion of AI.

None of the reports or courses on KDP I have seen have mentioned driving traffic externally in this way. I felt the urge to open my big mouth and spill the beans.

They all talk about fiverr for tags & reviews and a few sales, some have mentioned a mailing list and linking to your books internally.

All along while examining the information I was thinking - what about PPC and cheap traffic - just to increase rank. If its profitable that's even better.

Its like the start of "google cash" - eventually people were going to extremes to get to the right spot on adwords, testing tracking, spying - total mania

Within KDP at present a ranking war does not seem to exist - thats because most book authors are notoriously bad marketers (some are very good too)

Its not unethical either. You are simply driving traffic to your book with PPC. Its just that doing this can totally skew the way KDP ranks the books. Lets face it in most of those sub categories the daily sales for each book are low figures.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

All along while examining the information I was thinking - what about PPC and cheap traffic - just to increase rank. If its profitable that's even better.

It has GOT TO BE profitable, or why do it?

Originally Posted by gareth

None of the reports or courses on KDP I have seen have mentioned driving traffic externally in this way. I felt the urge to open my big mouth and spill the beans.

Several of my KDP products have talked about driving traffic to your book sales pages using external resources...

I have not yet done anything on paid traffic yet, because I am matching those with case studies and actual data.

To be honest, at this stage, I believe that PPC advertising will be a sink hole, unless your book is already a widely-recognized title.

There are more productive places to put your advertising dollars, in my humble opinion -- that is if anyone can consider me "humble" by any measure of the word.

Cheap traffic is usually just cheap.

More important is traffic that will convert sales at a profit-level that is greater than what you spent to get the traffic.

I am currently testing several paid traffic methods. I hope to assemble several case studies on paid advertising in the coming months.

Until then, don't be afraid to experiment with paid traffic.

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chrisg942

12 years ago

1. Kindle is a review driven market, right now. If you have good reviews and a decent looking Cover. Your book will sell without any trouble. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Except the removal of paid reviews. (This is the same as the marketing of the junk in the check out line at the grocery store).

2. If you write quality content your books they will sell and you will establish a following for your future books. It's easy. (This is what keeps them buying from you).

3. Of course marketing yourself is the next thing to hook in more readers. Creating blog/website and whatever else you feel you need to do. (This is what sets you apart from the rest of the kindle writers, etc.).

4. PPC (I don't see the need for that if your content is quality period)!

Just my thought
Chris

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JohnMcCabe 12 years ago

The disconnect, for me anyway, was how using PPC or other paid advertising was "gaming the system." Am I missing something, or do you still have to have buyers in order to climb a best-seller list?

Regardless how one gets to the offer page, a number of people have to click the buy button and follow through in order to establish a sales rank, right?

Heck, you can go back however many years to Dan Poynter's book on physical self-publishing and read about using a variety of methods to make people aware of your book.

That's the difference between KDP and the Adsense craze. With Adsense, all you had to do was get someone to click a link. The comparison to Google Cash is actually closer to the real situation. Even there, Amazon does not allow affiliates to link directly to product pages already. So even that comparison is flawed.

I do agree that there is a contingent of marketers that will diligently seek out ways to pollute the system, and when those ways get blocked, KDP will be "fried" for them.

As for all the AI stuff, as the song says, "We'll all know more about it in the sweet bye and bye"...

Edit:

To the posters calling Bill Pratt (sic) out for buying manuscripts, you've just had a key lesson in the difference between an "author" and a "publisher."

Is Simon & Schuster doing something unethical when they buy a manuscript and publish it? The only difference is scale.
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affiliateg

12 years ago

Ok, so maybe is hard to make a $1000 per week profit with a kindle book, but who said you can't have more books that brings you that amount? You invest less time and money to create a 100 pages kindle book than building a 100 pages website. The money you can earn with such a website are less than the money a book can make. You can have several books on the same topic and all have sales, but is hard having more websites and all rank good, all with original content, etc...

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ExRat

12 years ago

Hi affiliateg,

Originally Posted by affiliateg

You invest less time and money to create a 100 pages kindle book than building a 100 pages website.

Originally Posted by affiliateg

The money you can earn with such a website are less than the money a book can make. You can have several books on the same topic and all have sales, but is hard having more websites and all rank good, all with original content, etc...

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RhondaG

12 years ago

There NEVER will be any kind of machine that can write with emotion and that is what a great writer does. I am not worried about these predictions and feel that Kindle sales will continue to grow. Google is working on getting rid of trash sites and black hat marketers and Amazon may end up having to do some of the same.

For those of us who write because we love it and want to share what we know with people, and for those of us who build websites that are there to serve someone besides ourselves, there will be no problems. Just use the Internet as a tool and make your business built on sound principles.

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GetMoreTraffic

12 years ago

PPC? Interesting...paying $3 per click on Adwords to sell a $2.99 ebook would be an innovative business practice...

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jacktackett

12 years ago

My computer blew a power supply today so I needed a good laugh - thanks to everyone! The kindle is just another shiny object to our warrior family and will soon be replaced with something else once people learn it actually takes work to publish books. Most warriors I've talked to don't have a clue and that includes most of the wso producers.

I can tell who is serious by their answers to these questions:

1). How many isbn numbers in your block from bowkers.
2). How much $$$ do you keep In your copyright deposit account.
3). How much did your; work for hire, assignment of rights, model release form, book contract etc cost?
4). What did you think of the title article in this week's edition of Publisher's Weekly?

By now I'm either staring at that dead fish look or listening to the 'reasons' why only a dummy would buy their own isbn numbers when you get them for 'free, or why pay money to register your copyright. I just smile and turn away. I know they are not a real publishing competitor and I don't have to worry about them and they certainly do not have any usable knowledge to pass on.

So to them I say good luck with your hobby until the next shiny object comes along.

As for the whole AI PREDICTIONS, my degree and graduate studies are in Computer Science so I can safely say - thanks for the laughs. Now if you'll excuse me I need to get a new computer-maybe Best Buy has one of them IBM watsons for sale

Jack

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cjreynolds 12 years ago

In my almost 60 years on this planet I have heard so many predictions - in grade school (grammar school) our teachers told us that by the year 2000 we would all be driving flying cars, we would get all of our nourishment from pills, and we would all have cool jet packs to ride to work with (BTW: it's 2012 - WHERE'S MY FRICKIN' JET PACK??!!!).

By now, we're supposed to be a "paperless society"! Remember that?

The big flaw in the "publishing will be dead" and "AI will replace humans" cries are that industries don't just sit around ignoring the changes around them, then one day say "OMG! This or that has entirely changed, and we can't do business any more!" No, industries evolve as their situations change.

Sure, the publishing business may look quite different in 2020 than it does now. That doesn't mean it will be gone.
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gareth

12 years ago

"It has GOT TO BE profitable, or why do it?"

The PPC does not have to be profitable at all. It can be purely to drive the sales rank.

Anyway the best focus is on the product and kindle should just be one of many sales avenues.

No one should be making content with the sole purpose of selling it on the KDP platform.

But then it seems some people will disagree with anything to get attention ...

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Paul Coleman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

yes cheap clicks from PPV, POF, facebook etc will give you best seller status over night

Break even on your PPC and you cream the $$ off Amazons best seller traffic.

Amazon's algorithm takes Conversion Rate into account. So if you send un-targeted traffic, the algorithm will make your books less visible. You could be sabotaging yourself.

Getting bestseller status, and maintaining bestseller status, are two different things. If the "cheap" traffic is not targeted, you will be fighting against the algorithm all the way.

On the other hand; if you are sending targeted traffic, you are not gaming the system, and everybody wins.

KDP is just another avenue - not the end game

Fully agree. We all need to build a real business, not just rely on one "avenue."

Originally Posted by dotips

And why not AI's replacing the readers as well?

The future doesn't need us?

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marciayudkin 12 years ago

By using PPC you can game KDP and be a best seller over night

I agree, it is possible to game the system on Amazon and create an overnight bestseller, whether for a paperback or a Kindle book.

However, it is NOT possible to sustain a bestseller status through such methods unless the product is something readers love. (I was going to say "high quality," but the key thing is reader reviews, not critical acclaim.)

And in that case, sending traffic to Amazon is simply plain old marketing under another name.

Sometime, take a look at the rankings for books that used the "Amazon bestseller" method to get a high ranking for one day. In many instances, they are hardly selling at all any more after a month or two.

On Amazon, the best strategy is to produce products that people want to read and recommend. Not just buy.

Marcia Yudkin
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mish_h

12 years ago

If anyone can tell me how to get my book up as a best seller I would really appreciate it, its not as easy as many would have you think

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cashcow 12 years ago

Originally Posted by mish_h

If anyone can tell me how to get my book up as a best seller I would really appreciate it, its not as easy as many would have you think

For most books, the only way is to promote it.

Whether you use paid methods or free methods, its all down to the amount of people that buy it. The more people that buy, the more exposure it gets on the different lists and the more exposure it gets the more people buy it.

But you've got to do something to get the ball started.

And, of course, you have to have a really good book that people want to read too.

There's a ton of WSO's available on how to promote your book.

Lee
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TDogger

12 years ago

I don;t thin AI will ever be able to write truly interesting books. Sure, it is possible to spin a simple tale, but AI cannot come up with unique story concepts or breathe real life in to characters.

As far as predicting the future, I grew up in the 1950s. At that time, there were widespread predictions that the car would be obsolete long before the year 2000 because we would all be flying to work.

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