27 replies
if i was to send emails to business out of the yellow pages offering them my services to build them websites,ect,

then is this regarded as spam?

i ask because i am thinking of going down the offline approach,and need to know if this is acceptable to do

kind regards
#spamming
  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Dodson
    You could buy leads that consist of people already interested in what you have to sell. It's alot easier than scanning the yellow pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author blueclcl
      is it spamming though?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kelvin Nikkel
        Originally Posted by blueclcl View Post

        is it spamming though?
        I would have to say YES
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelvin Nikkel
    Originally Posted by blueclcl View Post

    if i was to send emails to business out of the yellow pages offering them my services to build them websites,ect,

    then is this regarded as spam?

    i ask because i am thinking of going down the offline approach,and need to know if this is acceptable to do

    kind regards
    In my eye, if you are sending unsolicited emails/faxes to businesses or people, then you are spamming.

    I think you would have a much better response anyway if you went door to door if the businesses are local.

    Kelvin
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    • Profile picture of the author askloz
      well, under the cann spam act, one unsolicited email can be sent, but repetitive emails, is classed as spam and if there isn't a remove link..

      Unless I'm mistaken?

      Freakin' spam gets on my tits, there should be tougher laws about it.

      Originally Posted by Kelvin Nikkel View Post

      In my eye, if you are sending unsolicited emails/faxes to businesses or people, then you are spamming.

      I think you would have a much better response anyway if you went door to door if the businesses are local.

      Kelvin
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Hunter06,
        As you can see from the various responses above, the definition of what constitutes SPAM is both a legal and a personal issue.
        You're forgetting the third part of the triad: The network.

        The legal system isn't going to be much use for small-time stuff like this. Sad, but true. It's a resource question.

        Private individuals have limited authority to act in ways that stop spam, but they can report it.

        The network, by which I mean the people who run it, from ISPs and web hosts to the folks who run the various spamfighting systems, can be very effective. Flip the switch and - *poof* - you don't exist any longer as far as the online world goes.

        The discussion of laws and end users hitting the "This is Spam" button are relevant, but they're meaningless next to the real enforcement power online. The companies all these folks have contracts with in order to get access in the first place.

        Most of the people who work for those companies really, really don't like having spamming customers...

        Ooops.

        The rest of your post looked like an excellent outline for action. Just wanted to point out the one big omission.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Hunter06
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Hunter06,You're forgetting the third part of the triad: The network.

          The legal system isn't going to be much use for small-time stuff like this. Sad, but true. It's a resource question.

          Private individuals have limited authority to act in ways that stop spam, but they can report it.

          The network, by which I mean the people who run it, from ISPs and web hosts to the folks who run the various spamfighting systems, can be very effective. Flip the switch and - *poof* - you don't exist any longer as far as the online world goes.

          The discussion of laws and end users hitting the "This is Spam" button are relevant, but they're meaningless next to the real enforcement power online. The companies all these folks have contracts with in order to get access in the first place.

          Most of the people who work for those companies really, really don't like having spamming customers...

          Ooops.

          The rest of your post looked like an excellent outline for action. Just wanted to point out the one big omission.


          Paul
          I agree with you Paul, but the essence of what I was saying is that your potential client is very unlikely to report you for a SPAM violation if you are addressing a need he has with a valid solution.

          It should also be pretty obvious by now that SPAM is a complete waste of time in the off-line arena. That is why I outlined the approach that I have found to be successful in developing business off-line without upsetting anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author indexphp
    BlueClCl...

    Nobody is going to get angry at you for making them an offer. If you repeatedly make offers after they said no, then you would be spamming.

    Spamming is when you send messages in Bulk. So NO, it is not spamming and don't listen to anybody who tells you so.
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  • Profile picture of the author blueclcl
    thanks for the replys by the way
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Depends on how you do it.

      If you just compile a list of addresses and send them all the same email, yes. It's spamming. It may also be illegal in the UK. I'd check on that before sending bulk email there. The data privacy laws are much stricter there than in the US.

      More to the point, it's not going to be as effective as sending a well-designed print piece via the mail.


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      • Profile picture of the author JerryIL
        I get spam every day. It's all spam..I didnt ask you to send me your offer so I call it spam. If I sign up some where and ask to get offers then thats not spam...
        I guess we all see it different.
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn72
    Visit them in person. If they know you're willing to make the effort to visit them, that should make a difference. Providing you're not representing a much bigger company.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I'd skip the emails. Most cities have some kind of "city Directory", you know--a reverse phone directory kind of thing. R. Polk is a huge company that publishes these all over the country. You can get names on Cheshire (machine fixable paper labels) or peel and stick labels and put them on postcards. Get a 3rd Class bulk miling permit and imprint at the post office. You postage costs will be slashed and people will keep and share a postcard much longer than an e-mail.

    Most newspapers will also pay people to stuff fliers in Sunday papers for a reasonalble cost and you can have only certain areas covered, such as areas rich in office buildings, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author cima
      Actually, it's not spamming... Indeed (at least in France) when you open your own company or your firm and when you get listed in the yellow pages you receive tons of mails coming from compagnies such as Dell, Epson or whatever... Even if in my opinion it's not one of the best way to find new customers and sell your product, it is not spamming...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave777
    I respect everyone's opinion But too many in business have the wrong understanding when it comes to doing business by email!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail_spam

    Make sure you read and fully understand the difference between the two. As long as you personalize each email in detail and are professional in your email communications it can work and it does. Just be smart about how you do things, no matter the format of your communications. Picking up and using the telephone once in awhile definitely helps build relationships so blending different ideas together works well.

    All kinds of businesses use email communications for joint ventures, networking, bartering, discussing products and services etc. etc. It's all in how you communicate. Helping businesses with useful information is just one method that definitely works...

    A good read that may help some...
    Effective E-mail: How to Communicate Better Online

    Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author Charles E. White
      It is only regarded as spam if there are TOS stating that they dont want to be contacted with anything of a commercial nature

      Spamming is when you send messages in Bulk. So NO, it is not spamming and don't listen to anybody who tells you so.

      Can you tell me where in the world you got this from? You're telling me if I don't have a TOS for my business posted then anyone can send me what they want? And if a person sends 1 email that I never asked for it's not spam because they didn't send it in bulk? Spam has two different definitions, one is bulk email, one is unsolicited commercial e-mail. Believe me when I say this, I don't care how many emails they send, if I didn't request it, it's spam? Then you go on and tell the people to not listen to anyone else that says differently, I sure hope you're not teaching anyone about IM. Beliefs like this that have no basis whatsoever are the reason there are so much spam.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Charles,
        Can you tell me where in the world you got this from?
        They're making it up.

        Most of the advice in this thread is good for one thing: Getting the Big N/A from your ISP and web host. If they want to believe this stuff, let them take their own risks. They'll learn.

        Or not. I'm sure some of them will just invent further nonsense to avoid having to admit they were wrong.


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  • Profile picture of the author Successpass
    If I was you I would email them send them a letter in the mail and call them and then visit them If you don't get rejected or you don't get through on the phone.

    As long as you're offering them something that will help their business and you hit them from all angles with all the strategies I described I think you could do very well;-)

    Good Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    Just a small point - if it is spam by email - it is also spam by snail mail.

    A personal email addressed to an individual in a company can not be considered spam - it is simply cold canvassing.
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  • Profile picture of the author artsub
    I think its not spam untill u send more than 1 mail.
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  • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
    If you send an unsolicited commercial email, then yes, you are spamming. As well as online marketing, try offline strategies such as direct mail. You could also network your local business groups.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      1 email or 10 emails has nothing to do with it.

      How did you get your list?

      Did these people agree to be contacted by you at some point?

      Does your email comply with CANSPAM?

      Is there an unsubscribe link?

      If your message complies, then it's just marketing- not spam.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shakul
    As far as I know:

    1. If you send any business related email to anyone with out his or her permission it is considered as a spam.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hunter06
    Originally Posted by blueclcl View Post

    if i was to send emails to business out of the yellow pages offering them my services to build them websites,ect,

    then is this regarded as spam?

    i ask because i am thinking of going down the offline approach,and need to know if this is acceptable to do

    kind regards
    As you can see from the various responses above, the definition of what constitutes SPAM is both a legal and a personal issue. You can search for the legal definitions in your area and attempt to comply with these if you wish.

    As far as building your business in the off-line arena using email is concerned, you need to address the personal issues regarding what your recipients consider to be SPAM.

    In order to not waste your potential client's time, you need to establish in some way what their needs are. There are plenty of threads and products on this forum that discuss the various ways to build an off-line business. But, unless you put your offer in front of someone who needs your service or product, you will be wasting your time going through any list of contact details to build a list of potential clients.

    If I have a pressing problem that I need resolved and you send me an email that shows me how you can help me, then no way am I going to consider that SPAM.

    So what do you need to do in order to find your target market? The answer is quite simple and depends on what amount of time and money you have to throw at the problem. If you have time and little money then do the work yourself. If you have limited time but enough money, then outsource the work.

    The work you need to do is to contact each company you think needs your product or service and establish who the right person is to talk to. Create a telephone script and talk to as many businesses as you can in your target market. If you absolutely hate the phone then pay someone to do this for you. I have paid telemarketers and sales staff to do this based on results. "x" for a lead who is interested or "y%" for business generated.

    There are many different ways to generate business; the one I have used successfully is as follows:

    1. I selected the small business market who either had no website or had a poorly developed one.

    2. I identified these businesses by perusing the "knock and drop" advertising that appeared in our mailbox as well as the free local newspapers.

    3. I created a local business directory website using free software and then approached the local businesses both by telephone and in person and offered them a listing on the local business directory.

    4. The discussion was lead in the direction of how they could generate more sales or turnover through the medium of their website.

    5. The resulting discussion, which could take up to 2 hours, lead me to a full time income within one week of following this approach. If you find that the person you are talking to on the phone is interested in what you have to say then make an appointment to chat in person. I found that a personal visit was hundreds of times more affective in getting business than trying to close on the phone.

    6. You can offer advertising on your directory, featured ads, website design, website upgrades, blog development, auto-responder implementation, SEO, SEM, eCommerce implementation, copy-writing, brochure design, business card design, logo design, general marketing consulting, video creation and upload to YouTube, TubeMogul etc.

    If you don't have the skills required to do the work then outsource and charge a mark-up.

    I hope that this helps you get your off-line business off the ground. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Stirling
    Tough one... I mean I get personal emails
    from other website owners all the time...usually
    they just want to tell me about them or ask a
    question and they tell me about their website etc.
    but I wouldn't call that spam.

    Maybe if it's really a personal email, not a bulk email
    you send to everyone, then you might be able to get
    away with it.

    Or how about calling the person first and ask if you
    can send them an email? Not for everyone, but just
    an idea.

    Stuart
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul1234
    B2B (business to business) and B2C (business to consumer) email legislation differs in the UK/EU, CAN-SPAM is a US law and only covers reciept or transmission within the US. Current UK/EU legislation allows marketing emails from the UK/EU to UK/EU businesses unless a recipient specifically requests that they do not wish to receive more emails. If you send more emails after they've requested not to receive any more, there could be a £5,000 fine per offence.

    Current legislation relating to B2B and B2C email marketing

    In the UK, B2C email marketing is covered by the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) 2003 and The Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA). Registration with the Information Commissioner's Office as a 'Data Controller' is mandatory for UK businesses as soon as they hold details that could identify a living person. Failure to register if you hold personal information is a serious fine.

    If you want to telephone a UK business for marketing purposes, then you'd have to check if they were registered with the Telephone Preference Service (TPS). If you want to send a marketing fax to a UK business, then they might have registered with the Fax Preference Service (FPS). The fines for ignoring either of these registrations is again £5,000 per offence.

    One company that monitors the TPS and FPS, then provides data cleansed targetted lists of businesses that you can market to in the UK is Selectabase: Data Lists Business Consumer, Direct Marketing Sales Packages, Data List Checking Cleaning Tools, but there are many more data providers like that.

    The UK Government's 'Business Link' websites legal guidance on B2C email marketing:
    Legal issues | Business Link

    The UK Government's 'Information Commissioner's Office' (ICO) website also gives good information on B2C marketing:
    Unsolicited marketing, legal obligations - Online privacy - ICO

    Note at the bottom of that last page the words "There is currently no specific legislation to cover email sent to business addresses."
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  • Profile picture of the author Ivancho
    Originally Posted by blueclcl View Post

    if i was to send emails to business out of the yellow pages offering them my services to build them websites,ect,

    then is this regarded as spam?

    i ask because i am thinking of going down the offline approach,and need to know if this is acceptable to do

    kind regards
    In my opinion you are not spamming anyone. You are basiclly offering your services. Yellow pages can earn you millions if you play with them in the right way...
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