When did people start posting WSOs over 3 weeks before going live?

57 replies
Is this something that is allowed? I think using the thread to answer questions and drumming up buzz that far in advance is a misuse of the WSO section.

We all know the power of having a hot thread with lots of views. Is this the next trend for pumping up sales?

I don't know how everyone else feels but when I see a WSO pop up in the new posts and am interested enough to buy, I want to buy it now - not wait over three weeks for it to actually go live.
#live #people #posting #start #weeks #wsos
  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    There was a WSO (about launching WSO, ) that advised people to do it. Since it has been bought by several hundreds of wannabe wso-sellers...
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      There was a WSO (about launching WSO, ) that advised people to do it. Since it has been bought by several hundreds of wannabe wso-sellers...
      And what was the reason that it was advised? Was it to do just what I said and pump up views/responses to make it look hot? I can't imagine any other purpose.

      Do you think it is appropriate?
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        And what was the reason that it was advised? Was it to do just what I said and pump up views/responses to make it look hot? I can't imagine any other purpose.

        Do you think it is appropriate?
        That's one of the reasons...lots of views, responses, 'it's so great' 'reviews' based on the salespage alone...

        The other reason is to build a pre-launch list.

        The more people you get on your pre-launch list, the less you have to pay in affiliate commissions since you can notify them the moment the sale goes live (or before) and the affiliate gets the scraps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
    I don't think it's a matter of being appropriate or not - it increases profit for the seller - period. So it is what it is, if it rubs us the wrong way then we don't buy the product and don't promote it for the sellers that use this tactic, but it's their WSO they pay for to sell their product however they wish.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Ken Reno View Post

      but it's their WSO they pay for to sell their product however they wish.
      Well, that's not completely true. They do have to conform to the rules of the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Hmm…not sure how I feel about it. But then I don't really buy or create too many WSO's anymore.

    I think as a buyer, it might be kind of annoying if everyone started doing it and when I went to peruse the WSO section there was nothing that you could actually buy NOW in there.

    As a seller I guess it might make you more money as you would be able to build your own list beforehand and warm them up.

    Maybe there should be a special "pre launch" section?

    It must be allowed though because if it is live it was approved, therefore mods have allowed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I assume that you are saying that you can see a WSO even before it goes live?

    LOL

    I have always set up my WSO thread days before launching the product. There are so many pieces to put together in advance of a launch that I have long decided that I should set up the sales page far enough ahead that I won't have to wait for thread approval before I launch.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I assume that you are saying that you can see a WSO even before it goes live?
      Sorry, Bill, I guess I wasn't very clear. I saw a WSO thread that was live, but the product itself is not going to be available to actually purchase for more than 3 weeks. So it's like a pre-launch advertisement, which isn't something I've really seen on the forum before.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        Sorry, Bill, I guess I wasn't very clear. I saw a WSO thread that was live, but the product itself is not going to be available to actually purchase for more than 3 weeks. So it's like a pre-launch advertisement, which isn't something I've really seen on the forum before.

        I had not noticed that happening.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Just give it three weeks, and some new fad will come up to take it's place. LOL

    Anyways, if I was WSO shopping and saw that, I would be immediately turned off. I didn't go to the store to see a commercial for a book that will be "coming soon", I came to pick up the darn book.
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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Just give it three weeks, and some new fad will come up to take it's place. LOL

      Anyways, if I was WSO shopping and saw that, I would be immediately turned off. I didn't go to the store to see a commercial for a book that will be "coming soon", I came to pick up the darn book.
      Yes, but go to the movies and you will be subject to dozens of previews along with the dozens of ads before you get to watch the movie. Hell, even when you buy a DVD movie, you have to sit through doezens of previews, or fast forward, bvefore the movie starts.

      Having said that, I am not sure I like this development. But I can see how it helps with the marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by timpears View Post

        Yes, but go to the movies and you will be subject to dozens of previews along with the dozens of ads before you get to watch the movie. Hell, even when you buy a DVD movie, you have to sit through doezens of previews, or fast forward, bvefore the movie starts.

        Having said that, I am not sure I like this development. But I can see how it helps with the marketing.
        I know those previews are coming though, I expect to see them. Before now, I wouldn't expect to see them in the WSO section. I'm with you being uncomfortable with the development though.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

          I know those previews are coming though, I expect to see them. Before now, I wouldn't expect to see them in the WSO section. I'm with you being uncomfortable with the development though.
          Here's some food for thought...

          A few years ago Allen chimed in on a thread about WSOs and one of the things he mentioned was creativity regarding the use of the advertising space that people paid for when they used the WSO section. Specifically, why people didn't do more things to maximize their advertising dollars spent there once they bought the space.

          This is a wild ass guess, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he enjoys seeing folks testing a technique like the one being discussed here. He is, afterall, keenly interested in marketing and what works and what doesn't.

          ~Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            Here's some food for thought...

            A few years ago Allen chimed in on a thread about WSOs and one of the things he mentioned was creativity regarding the use of the advertising space that people paid for when they used the WSO section. Specifically, why people didn't do more things to maximize their advertising dollars spent there once they bought the space.

            This is a wild ass guess, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he enjoys seeing folks testing a technique like the one being discussed here. He is, afterall, keenly interested in marketing and what works and what doesn't.

            ~Bill
            I love these types of threads. Whenever someone complains I take notice and test. Most times I see an increase in sales.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
              Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post


              This is a wild ass guess, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he enjoys seeing folks testing a technique like the one being discussed here. He is, afterall, keenly interested in marketing and what works and what doesn't.

              ~Bill
              I understand this Bill, but for me (and I'm just one small voice) I am personally turned off if it becomes a "normal thing."

              I'm hoping it is just a fad.

              I'm finding it along the lines of those character symbols being used which have since been banned.
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              • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
                Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                I'm hoping it is just a fad.
                Jill, if at the end of the day sellers who broadcast their WSOs without putting up a buy button lose out to those folks who see the pre-sell pages and think, "I can put out a WSO on this same topic before he/she does", and they do it, it would perhaps make that tactic faddish if it eventually gets dropped.

                Some of those WSO are put together in a matter of hours. What could be more frustrating than to think you out-manuvered the marketplace only to find out you're an 'also ran'.

                ~Bill
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              I can't really see how this would work, unless like someone says, you're creating a list to bump of affiliates.

              If that's the case, you have to ask yourself if it's going to bring you in more sales in the long term, especially if affiliates choose not to promote you.

              If I was to guess, I'd say this is going to catch on like wild fire, affiliates will fight back, and all that will happen is they don't promote.

              Of course, it was very creative of the first person who did it: both for actually using it to make more sales, and selling the technique before it became popular and everyone started doing it.

              Personally, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, and would have no reflection on whether I would buy the product.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            Here's some food for thought...

            A few years ago Allen chimed in on a thread about WSOs and one of the things he mentioned was creativity regarding the use of the advertising space that people paid for when they used the WSO section. Specifically, why people didn't do more things to maximize their advertising dollars spent there once they bought the space.

            This is a wild ass guess, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he enjoys seeing folks testing a technique like the one being discussed here. He is, afterall, keenly interested in marketing and what works and what doesn't.

            ~Bill
            I'd say you are right too. I can only hope that the market at large thinks like I do and lets this thing die before it grows too much.

            Bet it's nice for Allen owning a forum where people will put the marketing techniques to the test for you :p.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            I don't think it's a matter of being appropriate or not - it increases profit for the seller - period. So it is what it is, if it rubs us the wrong way then we don't buy the product and don't promote it for the sellers that use this tactic, but it's their WSO they pay for to sell their product however they wish.
            This sums it up. If people want to pay a few times to build up the list, they can. There's nothing inherently deceptive about the approach, so I don't see any reason they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

            If enough affiliates avoid deals that use this tactic, it will be reduced quite a bit. The market will sort out the best way to handle this one.

            I suspect this will be a pretty effective and long-term approach, though. Especially for people who don't rely on affiliates.


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    • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Just give it three weeks, and some new fad will come up to take it's place. LOL

      Anyways, if I was WSO shopping and saw that, I would be immediately turned off. I didn't go to the store to see a commercial for a book that will be "coming soon", I came to pick up the darn book.
      Yet look at the movie theater. They have a bunch of 'coming soon' movies on display.

      This technique is obviously used to build a pre-launch list (and even one in general) and make buzz about the product. When people see something like this they usually immediately think it's something 'more important' (even though in reality it might not be) due to the extent that the seller went to.
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  • Profile picture of the author micromike
    Tina, I was part of a discussion a while back that seemed to indicate that a dimesale could be "timed" as in one frozen price for a couple of hours, then start like usual.. and that one of the incentives for "early opt-in" was to get the early price. That was two hours before the affiliates were supposed to mail out; the folks on the list would get the "go ahead" that much early. I don't know which payment system allows a staged price increase like that, and I don't imagine that the affiliates would be thrilled either, although the "early opt-in" would only impact folks that were on both lists.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by micromike View Post

      Tina, I was part of a discussion a while back that seemed to indicate that a dimesale could be "timed" as in one frozen price for a couple of hours, then start like usual.. and that one of the incentives for "early opt-in" was to get the early price. That was two hours before the affiliates were supposed to mail out; the folks on the list would get the "go ahead" that much early. I don't know which payment system allows a staged price increase like that, and I don't imagine that the affiliates would be thrilled either, although the "early opt-in" would only impact folks that were on both lists.

      You can do that with any dime-sale system available today.

      Just set the price at the start price, with no dime-store for the first two hours. Then go back and add dime-store pricing to the offer when you are ready to allow the price to start climbing.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Just set the price at the start price, with no dime-store for the first two hours. Then go back and add dime-store pricing to the offer when you are ready to allow the price to start climbing.
        This takes a bit of math with WSO Pro, since it dime-sales up from the first sale. So if you make X number of sales before you want to start your dime sale, you have to reduce your start price by ( X * (increase amount) / (sales per increase) ) to make your dime sale work properly.

        Can you tell I've done this before?

        This is the way a lot of dime sale algorithms are implemented, so the same thing probably applies to some other platforms as well. Most software developers don't consider the marketing notion that you may want to delay your dime sale, or dime sale more than once, or do some other reasonably simple thing to explain that just wasn't part of the original software design.

        When your developer asks "what exactly is this feature?" he expects a COMPLETE explanation of EVERYTHING that can POSSIBLY be done with that feature, not the fastest possible explanation of the most common thing people do with it. Without a complete explanation, he almost certainly won't design it properly.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I think it will run itself out - because many will do it. They all probably bought the same WSO saying what a great idea it was

          That's fine - they can spend all they want bumping an offer that has nothing to sell....my choice is not to buy anything from anyone who decides to post his WSO that way.

          I think the complaints will be from the sellers paying to "sell" a product not for sale at this time. When a competitor sees the activity and creates a quick product along the same lines....they will be crying "but my WSO was posted first and he copied my idea". Tough cookies, snookie.

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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            When a competitor sees the activity and creates a quick product along the same lines....
            I've had this happen twice recently. Someone will sign up on my affiliate page, request a review copy, then make his own lower-price version of the product to promote instead.

            Which just reinforces my old saying, "if you screw the rules, they multiply." Because now I don't give review copies anymore.

            I have gotten pretty soundly screwed over the past couple months because I got a lot of advice about being open and just trusting that people would not rip me off or steal from me. And in general, I like that approach, so I did precisely that.

            But in the end, I'm sitting here looking at people who have ripped off and stolen my products, and scrambling to get by on a miniscule income because I put almost all my eggs in that one basket. (Heh, scrambling eggs.) So if you've only got the one basket because you're trying to "Follow One Course Until Successful," take a good hard look at what dishonest people could do with the advice you're being given.

            Don't get me wrong, this industry is full of honest people, and even the dishonest ones aren't what I consider dramatically dishonest. I'm the guy who wrote "Instant Product Copycat," so dashing off a product clone in a couple hours is something I've already thumbed up and said is "awwwwright," so I can't in good faith get pissy because you did it to me.

            But it only takes a couple dishonest people to completely screw up your plans, ruin your income, and bring your whole plan crashing down. It's just like when Microsoft first got into the hardware industry - you simply can't do it the same way you do software.

            That's a hard lesson, and you've probably got to learn it the hard way, but take it from someone who's already learned a few of these hard lessons... there is a reason the successful people in this industry are secretive and paranoid.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Yay, another thread about WSOs! he he

    I really don't see the problem. If someone wants to spend $40 to "drum up interest" before they actually allow people to buy the WSO that's fine with me, and I could care less. As it's been happening, I don't think it's not allowed, or they'd put a stop to it. I really do not see the problem.

    But now that someone's complained about it, maybe they will stop it if there's something Allen doesn't like about it, as you seem not to like it, either.

    I am just giving my opinion, nothing personal. I think it's much ado about nothing. I don't see why someone can't wait to actually release the product, other than that it annoys you. Don't see anything nefarious about it. Again, nothing personal...
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

      Yay, another thread about WSOs! he he

      I am just giving my opinion, nothing personal. I think it's much ado about nothing. I don't see why someone can't wait to actually release the product, other than that it annoys you. Don't see anything nefarious about it. Again, nothing personal...
      It's not a thread complaining about WSOs in general, though... lol. This is just something new and I figured I'd ask what others think. No offense taken, I don't mind someone disagreeing with me. By the looks of the responses so far, I'm in the minority. That's okay; that's why I brought it up.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

      I think it's much ado about nothing.

      I agree with J Bold, "much ado about nothing."

      If I was shopping and found an ad for an upcoming product, I would probably ignore it and then promptly forget about it.

      But one of these days, I would hope that the people launching WSO's the same day that I do are silly enough to only offer pre-sales pages, rather than sales pages.

      The less real competition -- the better.
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      • Profile picture of the author zapseo
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I agree with J Bold, "much ado about nothing."

        If I was shopping and found an ad for an upcoming product, I would probably ignore it and then promptly forget about it.

        But one of these days, I would hope that the people launching WSO's the same day that I do are silly enough to only offer pre-sales pages, rather than sales pages.

        The less real competition -- the better.
        When you launch a WSO, Bill, there is no REAL competition ... EVER.

        Live JoyFully!

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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I think I know which thread you're talking about, if its a specific one.

    If so, ya.. the video just makes it look like some WF alternative, I dont know what it is for sure but I'm guessing its a forum. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
    I can certainly see both sides of the argument; though, count me in the camp that could not care less.

    ... this is not to say that I agree/disagree with the method. Rather, I'm saying I don't purchase WSOs, so I simply don't care.

    I will say this, though: I thought the intention of the WSO forum was to 'test' your product before releasing it to the general public? So, in essence, we are now seeing a pre-pre-pre-release (or something along those lines).

    If things become any more convoluted, I'm fairly certain a cosmic black hole is going to open and swallow the WSO forum whole.
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  • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
    I think this tactic is straight from the Apple book on how to create rabid buyers. How many weeks in advance is the next Apple doohicky advertised before it's actually available?

    For the right product, a teaser can be a great sales strategy. I wouldn't have thought of it for digital products but it must be working.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      There was a WSO (about launching WSO, ) that advised people to do it. Since it has been bought by several hundreds of wannabe wso-sellers...
      hmm. Well, it might be time for some arousal on the situation.

      I noticed the phonenomena (no clue how to spell, pardon me) myself this past week. I went looking for a product which I had found one solution being sold as PLR (Tina, you will know what I'm referring to I hope) and later found a thread with the product in "pre-launch" mode still.

      I would hope possibly some kind of rule can come of this - such as you need to post an actual payment link within 24 hours of the thread going live if you want to use this tactic or you can not bump until you do.

      Honestly I'm just making things up right now, lol - but as Istvan stated, and as I have stated I would hate to go in there an nothing is really for sale.

      I'll be really peeved over this.

      And while we're at it, someone point out to me who the dumb ass is who decided this was a good marketing tactic for the WSO area.

      Thanks!

      Jill
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

      I think this tactic is straight from the Apple book on how to create rabid buyers.
      This is not Apple. I love Apple, don't get me wrong - but this is the Warrior Forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    EDIT: JEEZ... while I was typing I got scooped by Killer Joe!

    Hi Tina,

    I probably wouldn't even comment on a post like this except that it's YOU that posted it, and that means we can have an actual adult conversation about it.

    I think there's two things at work here:

    A) The WSO section has become much more of a public marketplace, and less of a coop, where buyers and sellers all feel some sense of community.

    B) Far less people now browse/shop the WSO section than arrive there via email - by an order of magnitude.

    I may be a little out of order, but my experience with Allen says (sorry, couldn't resist!) he'd be all for marketers getting creative with how they use their own purchased ad space... in fact, I've read him basically saying, "I'm surprised more Warriors aren't more creative with the ad space they've paid for..."

    So, from that perspective - I don't see a problem with Warriors paying $40 to post a virtual flyer for their upcoming show at the Roxy in 3 weeks. Even if you want to see them TONIGHT... you CAN'T... the show is in 3 weeks. The IDEA is for you to want to see them tonight, and not be able to!

    It's an opportunity for smart marketers to build anticipation, enthusiasm and excitement for a launch.

    A few will do it with more skill and finesse than almost everyone else - and that's when everyone can see the power of the strategy at work.

    And a herd of wanna-be's will ham-fist their attempts, piss everyone off... spawning a spate of gripe threads about how evil it is to market this way.

    Anyway, that's my take on it. Hope you're well.

    Best,

    Brian

    * Special thanks to Thomas Belknap whose eagle eye is always trained on anything resembling a sexual reference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post


      A) The WSO section has become much more of a pubic marketplace, and less of a coop, where buyers and sellers all feel some sense of community.


      Brian
      Brian, what the hell are you selling?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      A few will do it with more skill and finesse than almost everyone else - and that's when everyone can see the power of the strategy at work.

      And a herd of wanna-be's will ham-fist their attempts, piss everyone off... spawning a spate of gripe threads about how evil it is to market this way.
      It's those who don't use the "skill and finesse" that I don't even want to see.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Jill, if at the end of the day sellers who broadcast their WSOs without putting up a buy button lose out to those folks who see the pre-sell pages and think, "I can put out a WSO on this same topic before he/she does", and they do it, it would perhaps make that tactic faddish if it eventually gets dropped.

        Some of those WSO are put together in a matter of hours. What could be more frustrating than to think you out-manuvered the marketplace only to find out you're an 'also ran'.

        ~Bill
        Great point Bill!

        You know, I have a test sales thread in the test forum which is buried.

        And maybe this will be my next WSO (roflmao)

        "How to find pre-launch WSO's and Steal the Thunder!"


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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Bill,

          Interesting point.

          If they keep the pre-sales threads generic, people will start to get bored with them. Unless they also find a way to involve affiliates that allows tracking later, like you can do with an email list generated through more traditional forms.

          If they give away enough for someone to think they're going to "scoop" the offer, there are some real traps to watch out for. If they get the idea right, but the delayed product is significantly better, the "scooper" could get hammered with refund requests.

          If they get it wrong, they're likely to be far enough off to get no benefit from the "scoop" anyway. And they may get some amount of ridicule for their broken effort.

          I definitely see some potential ways this could be seriously abused. It's not inherently deceptive, but the potential for sneaky stuff later is enough that these things will probably make it onto the mods' watch lists.

          Just means they have to be more careful about the rules. It would suck to promote something this way and then have it shut down within 15 minutes of revealing the offer.

          I can hear that conversation now...

          "We spent !!!$240!!! promoting this before we even opened it to the public!"

          "And that has... what? ... to do with the fact that it breaks the posted rules?"

          "[sputter] [gripe] [threaten] [gripe] [sputter]"

          Hmmm...

          Okay. I see a problem. They can post a blank offer like this, change it to something that breaks the rules at any time, and claim it should be allowed because the original blind copy was approved.

          Nope. THAT isn't going to wash.

          Here's how I think we'll handle that. If you post blind copy like this and the real offer doesn't meet the rules, your offer gets removed, and so do you.

          I think that will need some sort of bite, which will probably mean you won't be able to post anything like that without having a certain amount of posts and a minimum amount of time as a member. Otherwise, we'll have 639 random newbies doing this, and not caring if they get nuked.

          Nothing invested, nothing to lose.


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          • Profile picture of the author micromike
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            .

            Here's how I think we'll handle that. If you post blind copy like this and the real offer doesn't meet the rules, your offer gets removed, and so do you.

            I think that will need some sort of bite, which will probably mean you won't be able to post anything like that without having a certain amount of posts and a minimum amount of time as a member. Otherwise, we'll have 639 random newbies doing this, and not caring if they get nuked.

            Nothing invested, nothing to lose.


            Paul
            think this is a good call; no point in bypassing the vetting process just to die over it (financially, anyway)
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          • Profile picture of the author WillR
            Creativity in marketing is great but let's be honest, this is NOT creative marketing. This pre-launch tactic is VERY old and has been used for years and years in online marketing.

            Everyone is correct in saying that it's your $40 so you can do what you want. My problem is when tactics like this start affecting other WSO vendors paying the exact same $40 to post their WSO.

            Imagine you went to an online marketplace looking to buy some new shoes. Every second listing was for a product 'coming soon'. The problem is you don't want shoes in a weeks time, you want to buy them now. So naturally you go elsewhere and make your purchase. Do you think you will be in a rush to go back to the marketplace that was full of the 'coming soon' listings? Hell no. So everyone on that marketplace loses out.

            I really do not see the need for this at all. The WSO forum, I believed, was a marketplace for selling products, just like eBay. You wouldn't expect to go to eBay and see 'coming soon' listings would you? If people have something to sell then they should sell it, if not then they should hype the prelaunch through their signature. This encourages those serial WSO sellers to actually get involved in the forum and it also means their prelaunch posts do not affect the reputation of the WSO marketplace.

            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            If they keep the pre-sales threads generic, people will start to get bored with them. Unless they also find a way to involve affiliates that allows tracking later, like you can do with an email list generated through more traditional forms.
            My point exactly. What happens when people get bored? They tune out. Not just of those offers that are boring them but they tune out of the marketplace and go elsewhere... thus affecting the other sellers as well.
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi WillR,

              Originally Posted by WillR View Post

              They tune out. Not just of those offers that are boring them but they tune out of the marketplace and go elsewhere... thus affecting the other sellers as well.
              There are 1001 reasons why people were tuning out already, before the advent of the 'coming soon' WSO.

              But this doesn't bother those who are proliferating in there because the forum itself is just a very small link in their chain which revolves mainly around email marketing, not Warrior forum.

              I was pondering how bizarre it all is while reading a thread yesterday - a common one where someone who is relatively new here made a thread about being burnt out and lost and looking for guidance.

              They told what appears to be a common story of getting 'addicted' to buying WSOs in an attempt to MMO, before realising that they were getting absolutely nowhere and that they had wasted their money on junk.

              So they turned to the helpful people in main discussion to wipe away their tears, guide them in the right direction (for free) and help them to recover some faith after their previous experience.

              It's a bit like different worlds co-existing right next door to each other and there's something inherently unsettling and wrong about it.

              An analogy - it's like a proprietor has two bars which are accessed through the same main doorway. As you go through the main doorway, you need to choose which one of the two bars to enter - either to the left or the right.

              If you walk into the one on the right, the people are kind and relaxed and will pour you a drink and invite you for a nice chat at their table. It's inhabited by all sorts of people, just drinking, eating and playing a few hands of cards for low stakes. Even if you get legless, they'll organise a taxi home for you and you'll arrive home unscathed.

              If you walk into the one on the left, you will be mercilessly stripped of your money, your dignity and your faith in humanity as soon as you walk in there. It's full of hookers, pimps, dealers and gun-toting varmints. You can't seem to go in there, no matter how grizzled you are, without someone trying to take a piece of you.

              So the guy in main discussion yesterday had turned left upon entry and after that experience had eventually sought refuge in the bar on the right - bloodstained, stripped of his cash and grateful for someone to just buy him a beer.

              Bizarrely, the people in the second bar know about the other bar, comfort him about his experience, but can't say too much about the goings on in the other bar openly because both bars are run by the same person and they don't want to cause offence.

              Their advice to him was firstly - stay out of that bar. You don't need what's for sale in there. It's no good for you. You're better off in here.

              But bizarrely, they end their advice by telling him that if he stays out of that bar for a while and gets his act together, then maybe one day he can go back in there and do some pimping himself, or make a few bucks pushing some gear.

              It just gets weirder and weirder around here, it seems.

              See my sig file for hot ladies and cheap gear. :rolleyes:

              Hi Caliban,

              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              That's a hard lesson, and you've probably got to learn it the hard way, but take it from someone who's already learned a few of these hard lessons...
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      A) The WSO section has become much more of a pubic marketplace, and less of a coop, where buyers and sellers all feel some sense of community.
      ... and what exactly is your OTO in this marketplace?
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  • Profile picture of the author Leo Wadsworth
    If I had a vote <grin>, I'd recommend a standard that said if folks wanted to use this tactic, they had to put [coming soon] as the first part of their post title. I prefer to be able to buy right away.

    I wonder how many sales this tactic loses from people that don't come back later... Seems like it might be a wash overall.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    geeps you just described the Black Hat forum to a "T" there...

    If you walk into the one on the left, you will be mercilessly stripped of your money, your dignity and your faith in humanity as soon as you walk in there. It's full of hookers, pimps, dealers and gun-toting varmints. You can't seem to go in there, no matter how grizzled you are, without someone trying to take a piece of you.
    Yep I d not even look in on the WSO part any more..... So pre 2009.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    So X rat the moral of your story....?

    Bar on the right is for newbies..bar on the left only when you graduate to be a "seller"?
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi sloanjim,

      the moral of your story
      There isn't one, I'm just saying what I see.

      I understand why certain changes were made here - they make sense, in terms of the obvious primary goal. I'm just pointing out that where we are right now (the right hand bar at a certain point in time) is a weird place to be.

      But in comparison, the Western world in general is a weird place to be right now, in particular in my country. It's all back to front, like something out of an Ayn Rand dystopian book or 1984.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        I see some great points were brought up while I was sleeping. Thank you to everyone who's given their opinions. I would thank more of you but sadly, I need to wait for my thanks button to return.

        At least I can see both sides of the coin now, but I still lean towards a "this is not a good thing" point-of-view. I don't mean in general, as pre-launch buzz is part of good marketing. I mean specifically the WSO section. I see a high potential for abuse which makes me wary.

        I am one of the old-fashioned Warriors who still feels like this forum is my home on the web. The community means a lot to me. I don't like some of the things I see happening over the past year or two and I tend to take member moderation seriously.

        For me, it's like being a part of the neighborhood watch - I don't want to see the pimps and drug dealers taking over my neighborhood and driving out the good people.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    A couple of people have mentioned in this thread that the majority of the traffic to WSO's these days is from emails (of the product owner and affiliates I assume). There is very little traffic from people actually browsing in the WSO forum. I also think this is true.

    But, if it is, then what would be the point of even putting the pre-launch WSO up? If most of the traffic is coming from emails, surely no one is going to email their list to go look at a pre-launch WSO that they will make no affiliate money in promoting?

    Or maybe there is enough foot traffic to be worth the $40 to advertise?

    I think the general nature of people looking in there is that they want a product right now so I can't see that having a lot of these could be beneficial to the market place, then again if there aren't that many people looking in there in the first place maybe it won't matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    As a list building exercise, it is an interesting move, and foot traffic is still substantial enough to justify it as list building.

    By list building in advance, they can bypass the need to have affiliates. That part is clever.

    I have recently done offers where 80% to 90% of the traffic is delivered by affiliates. If I can list build and get 50% of the audience to buy from me directly, instead of through affiliates, it will be a huge win -- read several thousand dollars -- for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashcow
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      As a list building exercise, it is an interesting move, and foot traffic is still substantial enough to justify it as list building.

      By list building in advance, they can bypass the need to have affiliates. That part is clever.

      I have recently done offers where 80% to 90% of the traffic is delivered by affiliates. If I can list build and get 50% of the audience to buy from me directly, instead of through affiliates, it will be a huge win -- read several thousand dollars -- for me.
      Yeah, it is an interesting test when you think of it that way. Sort of like the 2012 version of a "free WSO" for list building.

      I wonder if more people will do it and, if they do, what effect that might have on the WSO section.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

        Yeah, it is an interesting test when you think of it that way. Sort of like the 2012 version of a "free WSO" for list building.

        I wonder if more people will do it and, if they do, what effect that might have on the WSO section.

        If people were to look at it in that way, specifically Caliban, then he might realize that he can put his offers back into the forum, and it would not matter that the big mailers are ignoring his offers.

        And then he could stop posting "Screw You" links in his signature, because he would realize that he is the pilot of his destiny and not those nameless, selfish affiliate marketers who ignore his offers -- those folks whom he now holds in great contempt.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Nothing new about creating buzz for a sale before the actual sale takes place and I see nothing in the WSO rules that prevent that. If I'm interested in the product after reading the pre-sale buzz, I'll bookmark and return or get on the presale list to be notified when it is live.
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