Does This Piss Anyone Else Off?

41 replies
Before I even start, this is not a gripe about the WSO forum. More of a gripe about the way that some people do things.

So, I buy my fair share of WSO'S -- both services and info products because frankly, there are a lot of good deals in there and if I am going to purchase something I would rather put my money into a fellow warriors pocket.

However, in the last 3 weeks, I've purchased at least 2 products at the original asking price only to find out that over the past couple of days that the sellers both lowered their prices CONSIDERABLY. One of them was sold for $1 and the other was sold at 50% off I think.

So, I pay full price and a week later they change the price in the WSO copy?

Not sure exactly why, but that pisses me off a little bit...
#piss
  • Profile picture of the author Takuya Hikichi
    I can see price going up, but going down within the past couple of days?

    That would not make me feel right if I'd have to do that. I would contact previous customers and offer refunds on the differences.
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  • Profile picture of the author theyoungmarketer
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Not sure exactly what you are talking about..... lol

      I'm not complaining about the number of products I buy. I'm complaining
      about the fact that I feel like I am ripped off when the price gets lowered
      a week later after I paid full price...

      Usually the price goes up -- not down which is why I always quickly
      jump on offers whether they are here or elsewhere when I see something
      that I am interested in.
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      • Profile picture of the author JackKnight555
        Sorry but what is a WSO?
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Originally Posted by JackKnight555 View Post

          Sorry but what is a WSO?
          Warrior Special Offer. There's a forum for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scofield
      I wouldn't worry about it. It is just your "justice mentality" that is making you angry because you know someone else got a better deal than you did. Eben Pagan talks about the justice mentality and how it is detrimental to us. Sometimes you must learn to accept the short end of the stick.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Scofield,

        Originally Posted by Scofield View Post

        I wouldn't worry about it. It is just your "justice mentality" that is making you angry because you know someone else got a better deal than you did. Eben Pagan talks about the justice mentality and how it is detrimental to us. Sometimes you must learn to accept the short end of the stick.
        Interesting perspective. I didn't really think about it in those terms.

        You have at least given me something to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    That hasn't happened to me in the WSO forum, but I'd also be angry if I paid full price just to see the price go down a week later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    I wouldn't worry about it. As long as I'm getting value for money why shouldn't I pay them a good price for it? (And if I weren't I'd ask for a refund.) And if more people can get the same value at a better price then awesome. I'd still be happy with my information providing that's it's valuable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      ZIGZAG,

      I definitely see what you are saying, but these were not "cheap" products.

      I don't think it would make me as mad if I paid $10 and then saw it on sale for $1 -- these products were both $30+ I believe.
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      • Profile picture of the author JackKnight555
        OK, so before I buy, are you guys saying that special webinar advertised above, is likely to be cheaper, here - if I just wait longer?
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          lol

          Originally Posted by JackKnight555 View Post

          OK, so before I buy, are you guys saying that special webinar advertised above, is likely to be cheaper, here - if I just wait longer?
          No, the situation that I described is very *rare* and was likely done out of desperation because the products were not selling as well as the sellers would have liked.

          They won't have any trouble getting people to line up to learn something from Chris Rempel -- you can be assured of that
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        ZIGZAG,

        I definitely see what you are saying, but these were not "cheap" products.

        I don't think it would make me as mad if I paid $10 and then saw it on sale for $1 -- these products were both $30+ I believe.
        Yeah that makes sense. I wouldn't mind if a bought a flashy new stereo system and then it was reduced in a sale. I'd still be happy with my purchase. Supposedly the report is worth more than $30 to your business. Still there's something for people to think about. They shouldn't really be lowering the price by that much when people are ordering at such a higher amount. (Or maybe that's their right. I dunno. I just post here.) At least not that quickly because they run the risk of making people peeved off.
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  • Profile picture of the author alvinhuang
    Sorry to hear this happened to you Jeremy.

    It would definitely piss me off. But unfortunately it happens to real life too, you sign up for a mobile package and a week later another "newer" "better" "cheaper" package comes out which is exactly the same stuff but at a lower price.

    It probably happens on a lesser scale in WF already, but a few spoilt apples will still always exist.

    Alvin Huang
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  • Profile picture of the author meisters
    In that cases... Every warrior who want buy a product must very carefully and contact the sellers to make sure he/she does not lower a price in the future.

    Well.... this just my suggest.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      People test prices. It happens. It may annoy some folks, but it's not like the act of changing a price is evil. Or personal.

      I wonder if anyone would feel like they short-changed the seller if he raised the price the week after they ordered...

      I try to be sensitive to people feeling this way, but it can occasionally get crazy. Example: A gentleman bought a sales copy training package from me. A bit over a year later, I offered just the manual from the package to my subscribers at a serious discount. The guy emailed me, demanding a refund of the difference.

      I was polite, but I refused. My response pointed out that (a) he got the full product, not just the manual, and (b) if he'd used the thing, he'd have made so much more over the year he'd had it that the fact of a sale wouldn't matter to him.

      He didn't get any joy from Clickbank either.

      To the folks who mentioned that they demand guarantees that the price won't be lowered at any point: I'd tell you not to buy. You don't get to lock me into promises about future policies or pricing. If the market or the offer changes, I'm going to adapt.

      On the plus side, I'm also not going to ask you to sign a contract stating that you will pay me the difference if I raise the price in the future, either.

      Isn't that nice of me?


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Hi Jeremy,

    Here's my thinking on the problem.

    IF the WSO spells out pricing changes in the original text, then that's okay. Usually this is done in the opposite way you describe. Such as the first 20 people getting the lowest price.

    Now, here's where I think the situation changes. In theory, all WSOs have to be approved. So, if there is a major change, then it technically becomes a different offer. It's no longer the WSO they were approved for.

    At the very least, they should have to pay to run another WSO.

    If people can start editing WSOs to change the price, what's to stop them from changing the actual product? They could potentially pay for one WSO and keep "editing" it for each new offer they want to sell.

    Long story short: I'm with you on this one.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    Michael,

    I probably should have just left "WSO" out of it and talked about it on more general terms.

    I just don't understand the thinking behind it. At first I was mad, now I'm kind of chuckeling about it
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    Paul,

    I understand what your saying....

    However, charging $30 one day and $1 the next isn't testing.

    Had the same product been offered even 60 days later at a seriously
    reduced price, no big deal. However, when I buy something from a WSO
    especially, I expect to be getting the BEST deal -- not the best deal
    that day.

    It's like a kick in the nads when you go back to the thread and see
    "I'm now selling this for $1" when I paid over 30X that a day earlier...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Jeremy,
      However, charging $30 one day and $1 the next isn't testing.
      Might be. They could be looking at the number of new customers they get that way, and comparing it to the immediate and long term profit potential when offering it at $30.
      However, when I buy something from a WSO especially, I expect to be getting the BEST deal -- not the best deal that day.
      That argument has some merit, logically. If you stick to that, based on the rules and traditions of that section, you can make a good case.

      Personally, I tend to think that doing something like what you describe in the WSO forum is rude. It also goes directly against the spirit of the section, as it was originally intended and has been used for years.

      Having just re-read the rules, though, I don't see where it violates any of them. It's not illegal, as far as I know. Just rude. But that has its own price and penalties.

      The $30-down-to-$1 switch is likely to only happen with "Made for WSO" deals. Those have their own pluses and minuses.

      Here's another example, to illustrate the problem of letting yourself be bothered by incidents like this. I paid around $900 for the resale rights to a certain product. There was a limit of 100 people getting those rights, which means I probably have 6 or 10 actual legitimate competitors.

      I got an email from someone accusing me of being unethical for selling it for more than the fellow at thus-and-such URL. I looked at the site, and I can guarantee you this guy did not get a legitimate license for the product. For one thing, he's an acknowledged thief and pirate. For another, he was about 10 years old when the licenses were sold.

      Someone else may have sold him a license they had no legal right to sell. He may have (and probably did) just decide he was going to do it, knowing he didn't have the right to sell it.

      Doesn't matter. He's pirating the thing, whether knowingly or not.

      He's not the only one. I've seen dozens of people distributing that product who almost certainly didn't acquire the rights legally.

      I didn't argue with the guy who emailed me about it. I informed him that, "That's my price. If you want to buy from someone else, that's your choice. I recommend asking them for a scanned copy of their resale rights license beforehand, though, unless you're comfortable buying pirated merchandise. I'll be happy to send you a scan of mine, along with the contact you need to verify it."

      I ignored the primary argument: The idea that a person has to price things at the lowest market option, or else be marked as unethical. Debating that one-to-one is pointless. It's an emotional reaction, not a logical response.

      That last part is what matters here. If you let reactions like that get hold of you, they'll cause other issues that may not be as obvious or easy to deal with.

      Messes with your thinking.


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      Paul,

      I understand what your saying....

      However, charging $30 one day and $1 the next isn't testing.

      Had the same product been offered even 60 days later at a seriously
      reduced price, no big deal. However, when I buy something from a WSO
      especially, I expect to be getting the BEST deal -- not the best deal
      that day.

      It's like a kick in the nads when you go back to the thread and see
      "I'm now selling this for $1" when I paid over 30X that a day earlier...
      I paid close to $600 for a flat panel TV a year ago. Today that same TV is selling for about $400.

      Should I be mad?
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Floyd,

        Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

        I paid close to $600 for a flat panel TV a year ago. Today that same TV is selling for about $400.

        Should I be mad?
        There is a big difference from 1 year and 24 hours, agreed?

        I understand that prices change and so do situations, but
        if you tell me that you are selling a limited number of copies
        and to grab it now for $XX before they are all gone and then
        the following day sell the same thing for $1, that is not marketing
        that is deceitful.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Jeremy,
          if you tell me that you are selling a limited number of copies and to grab it now for before they are all gone and then the following day sell the same thing for $1, that is not marketing that is deceitful.
          It may well be illegal.

          You didn't mention that in the OP. That comment is material to the decision to purchase, and a reasonable person would be likely to infer that it meant the product would no longer be available or that it would increase in price.

          THAT is deceptive advertising.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
            Paul,

            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Jeremy,It may well be illegal.

            You didn't mention that in the OP. That comment is material to the decision to purchase, and a reasonable person would be likely to infer that it meant the product would no longer be available or that it would increase in price.

            THAT is deceptive advertising.


            Paul
            I didn't mention it in the original post because I didn't want this to turn into a WSO bash type of thread

            I'm more upset at the "marketing" tactic than anything else and would be if it was a WSO or any offer that I bought on the web or in a regular department store.

            I think that there really are some people that are so desperate to squeeze every dime that they can out of something that they would rather be perceived as a snake rather than a business person. Which is very unfortunate.

            I can assure you that I won't do business with either of these people in the future and have also blogged about it to the "students" in a couple of my programs. I didn't do this in an effort to "bash" the particular person/persons, but to give an example to them of how NOT to treat people that put money in their pocket.
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            • Profile picture of the author adamv
              Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

              I paid close to $600 for a flat panel TV a year ago. Today that same TV is selling for about $400.

              Should I be mad?
              Like Jeremy said, there is a big difference between 1 year and 1 day. Also, the price dropping from $30 down to $1 is just over 3% of the original price. If you bought your T.V. for $600 and the next day it was $19.99 you'd probably be pissed off.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
        Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

        I paid close to $600 for a flat panel TV a year ago. Today that same TV is selling for about $400.

        Should I be mad?
        I bet if you paid $600 and a few days later (not a year later) it was $400 you would be mad. You might even go to the store and ask for the difference. Best Buy and Circuit City have that policy, I'm not sure of the time frame but if the price goes down in a week you get the price difference.

        Jeremy paid $30 for a WSO and a week later the same WSO was lowered to $1. That's a few days not one year. I think he has every right to get mad. We're talking about a week here, not a year.

        Perhaps the WSO wasn't selling as well and so they decided to lower the price after a few days but at least have respect for your customers that paid full-price and give them the price break. It might not be required but it's just makes good customer service. We want customers to keep buying from us. Lowering the price by $29 after a few days and not offering your previous customers the difference will ensure you won't have repeat customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lewis Turner
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      I would think it contravenes WSO policy of offering the lowest price to Warriors. If you then offer a lower price, your original WSO was not the lowest price. IMO that is good enough reason to invalidate that as a WSO.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Kevin,
        I would think it contravenes WSO policy of offering the lowest price to Warriors. If you then offer a lower price, your original WSO was not the lowest price. IMO that is good enough reason to invalidate that as a WSO.
        That is not what the rules say. Read them again.

        I don't like the tactic, mind you, but that's different from saying it violates the rules.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author matthewd
    Personally, I don't see a problem with people lowering prices.

    It's the way the world works.

    As far as lowering the price breaking the WSO rules, I don't
    agree with that either. I look at it as being valid as long as
    it is the lowest price at the current time.

    So, if I sell something for $27 here and $67 elsewhere,
    it's the lowest price currently available. Now, if I lower the
    price here to $17 and keep it at $67 elsewhere, it's still the
    lowest price currently available.

    With that said, I have always waited several months before
    changing my price on a WSO in respect of people with the
    differing viewpoint from me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doctor Article
    Can only speak for myself but if anything, my prices would go up rather than dow. I understand how you feel though.
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  • Profile picture of the author S Bhaskar
    If you see prices has been lowered, you can simply ask the seller for the partial refund. I am sure the sellers will be happy to oblige.
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  • Profile picture of the author WinsonYeung
    That does not happen to me before, in fact I'm not aware of this problem until you highlighted here
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  • Profile picture of the author James12C
    Hi - it's hard econimics, isn't it? I can't see how lowering the price so significantly is going to help profitability (let alone perceived value) .. smacks of desperation rather than testing...It would piss me off after such a short time, but I wouldn't feel so bad after, what, 30? 60? days......
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  • Profile picture of the author -Jericho-
    That's how marketing works though. You get the people who can't wait to pay the higher price then when sales slow down you put it on sale. Every store does that. Just wait it out. That's the price of being first.

    The only thing you should be thinking about is was it worth the money. Obviously if someone lowered it to $1 it probably isn't worth much. Best you can do is ask for a refund or just let it be a lesson learned.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimRobinson
    Can't you get a refund then purchase it again for $1?

    Although if you believe it's worth $30 and it's going to make you more than $30 over the coming few weeks, why is there to worry about? You still got a good deal.

    If you no longer think it's worth $30 then just request a refund.

    If you hadn't ever seen it again you would be perfectly happy with the purchase, why are you so upset that someone else got it cheaper?

    Countless times I've bought something from a store only to see them have a 50% off sale the next day, it happens, and the item was still worth the price I paid to me, so really there's nothing to be upset about.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Tim,

      Does the department store represent that they only have X number remaining and then promote an unlimited supply the next day for $1? If not, you are not comparing similar situations.

      Was it worth $30? Probably was.

      However, is it fair to sell the same thing a day later for $1. In my opinion no. When I bought it, I was under the fair assumption that I was getting the BEST DEAL.

      I could honestly give 2 rat turds over $30. My problem is, I don't like a
      business deal to conclude with me having the feeling that I just got "worked over" which is how I feel about all of this.

      If the ORIGINAL offer was closed and brought back a couple weeks later or a month later with a gimmick and a price reduction, I could stomach that. But, the way these 2 offers did it, I feel insulted as I imagine others do.
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    • Profile picture of the author ptone
      Originally Posted by TimRobinson View Post

      If you hadn't ever seen it again you would be perfectly happy with the purchase, why are you so upset that someone else got it cheaper?
      Yes and if your wife cheats on you with another man and you never knew it, you would be happy with your marriage.

      Furthermore, as mentioned by Jeremy, these "real" store analogies with real products are bad analogies. If a store offers an item for sale and claims that they only have 100 to sell at this price, but lower the price the next day - especially this much of a discount - , then not only would you be mad, but the Attorney General (if in the U.S.) of that state would probably pay a visit to that store (and not to buy the product).

      I think the seller should offer a $29 refund or offer something additional to the $30 purchasers...resale rights or something.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Sometimes price changes happen due to a lack of proper preparation. Price testing should be done before going public when it can be to avoid the problem you're having with the way you are viewing this purchase.

    I agree that this is a poor marketing decision. Other than finding a price point, nothing good can come out of it. The person who bought at the low price is not aware of the deal that they got unless they discover the information through a situation like this and there is the possibility to lose future customers like you who bought at the higher price.

    On the other hand, a great marketing technique is start out with the lower price and move it up creating a sense of urgency in the next product launch.
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  • Profile picture of the author jerdude
    I usually just buy and forget about it.. I know this type of thing is gonna happen to boost sale.. it's inevitable.. I just won't let myself be angry and bothered about it..
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  • Profile picture of the author Ivancho
    Well Jeremy this will piss me off as well.

    In my opinion their must be a new rule created.

    When WSO is realeased the price can only increase not lower.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    lowering price is a bad, bad thing to do. I don't want to **** my customers off, so i don't do this.
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  • Profile picture of the author onefreekiwinz
    Pays to ask the seller if he/she will haggle for a sale...
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