Frustrated Affiliate....Need Advice

by brit16
48 replies
I went on the clickbank product's sales page today that I promote. My site is set up completely around this product (it is the only one I am promoting). I write content that people in my niche are interested in reading and hope that they click over to the product and / or sign up for my list.

The reason I am frustrated is that today I noticed that the vendor has "opt-ins" all over their sales page. (These were not there a while back when I checked for this.) I know they probably have the "right" to build a list off of their viewers, but it seems like they are capturing the leads that I sent them, and are likely making sales I am not getting credit for. Is this typical???? Should I consider looking for a seperate product that does not have an opt-in on their page? I emailed the vendor, but I am not sure that they will really be concerned. I do make her regular sales, but I'm sure she has a lot more successful affiliates than me.

Thanks for any feedback, advice, etc!!!
#advice #affiliateneed #frustrated
  • Profile picture of the author hashbury
    Unfortunately this is very common on clickbank. Before you get to frustrated sign up for their opt in and see what they send. There is a chance (although slim) that they are sending links in their mailer with your aff id. However if you click on the link in the email and your aff id has changed on the payment you should drop them.

    Even if you aff id is still present, there is a chance they will send more mailers later down the line where your aff id will be different payment page.

    Can they buy the product directly, or do they need to opt in first before they can buy the product. Not that it really matters that much.

    IMO the best thing you could do is create a product similar to theirs and sell it directly yourself.
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    • Profile picture of the author bvbiz
      Originally Posted by hashbury View Post

      Unfortunately this is very common on clickbank. Before you get to frustrated sign up for their opt in and see what they send. There is a chance (although slim) that they are sending links in their mailer with your aff id. However if you click on the link in the email and your aff id has changed on the payment you should drop them.

      Even if you aff id is still present, there is a chance they will send more mailers later down the line where your aff id will be different payment page.

      Can they buy the product directly, or do they need to opt in first before they can buy the product. Not that it really matters that much.

      IMO the best thing you could do is create a product similar to theirs and sell it directly yourself.

      Yes, I agree! And I have never seen this CB thing you speak of...crazy!
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
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    Look for a different product if you're not happy with it.

    Or you could think about making your own product, you will probably make a whole lot more money by doing that, anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeverett
    This is a common thing on clickbank and they are supposed to give you credit if they do sell something later. There email is supposed to have your link in it.

    I would do like he said above and totally agree with what he said. Opt in to there list and see where there link sends you. Make sure that it is your affiliate link when you go to the check out page.

    Like he stated above there is really no way that I know of to track this and you might want to build your own product similar to theirs.

    One thought though. I would put a landing page. So when they click on the link to get to the product page that they fill in a form and you have captured them to your list first, then send them to the product website.

    This can cause you to lose some sales possibly but it has been my experience that you can not say the wrong thing to the right person.

    Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author LimitLessJZ
    You should harvest the leads from your own lander. Then YOU will have the data. Offer something free what will get them to fork over their email info. From there, build up your autoresponders and throw the offers in there.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeremysteam
    I would say, set up your own Capture page just for the product, and send traffic to the sales page, and an autoresponder series that sends them back to the product. Sadly though if they do generate leads from your traffic they promote not only their product but others as well which you won't get credit for.

    But you have the free will to always change what you are doing, luckily there is a LOT of products out there
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  • Profile picture of the author nrupen
    Contact seller and ask him/her if he/she can setup a page without opt-in, the best I would have done than doing anything else. If he/she agrees then no problem, if he disagrees then I would have bought a PLR e-book or video pack appearing similar to product I am promoting as an affiliate.

    Rehash and re-module PLR to match my expectations then I would have sold it rather that promoting vendors product. No doubt it may have taken time but there's no way I would let anyone steal my customers from their sales page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amy Balti
    I definitely agree with putting your own squeeze page and building your list. worst case scenario you lose your affiliate credit but you get a serious crowd...try to find or create similar & complementary products but I suggest you look for good PLR, it is faster. Put your own Buy Button and promote.
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      Thanks everyone. I am building a list of my own, but I am concerned that if they are also on her list, then there is a good chance they will by through her emails.

      I have contacted the vendor (yesterday) but have not heard back yet. In the mean time I am going to take your advice and sign up for her emails and see if I can tell if my id is still being used. Thanks agian!!

      I agree that having my own product would probably be the best bet, but it took me months just to create my freebie product . Not sure I can get a quality product created anytime soon, and I know nothing about creating a good sales page, etc. It would be nice to have a great vendor to work with!!
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      • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
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        Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

        Thanks everyone. I am building a list of my own, but I am concerned that if they are also on her list, then there is a good chance they will by through her emails.

        I have contacted the vendor (yesterday) but have not heard back yet. In the mean time I am going to take your advice and sign up for her emails and see if I can tell if my id is still being used. Thanks agian!!

        I agree that having my own product would probably be the best bet, but it took me months just to create my freebie product . Not sure I can get a quality product created anytime soon, and I know nothing about creating a good sales page, etc. It would be nice to have a great vendor to work with!!
        Get a ghost-writer. Tell them exactly what you want them to write about and then let them write it.
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        • Profile picture of the author brit16
          Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

          Get a ghost-writer. Tell them exactly what you want them to write about and then let them write it.
          The only thing about that is that I have a lot of personal experience in my niche, that is why I have been somewhat successful in it. I think the whole point of me writing something would be because I have a lot to offer on the topic. Am I looking at this the wrong way?
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  • Profile picture of the author JKflipflop
    Yes. That's a good idea. Getting in touch with the vendor would be an excellent idea - the idea of getting into a dialogue with your vendor is very engaging anyway - so proceed with that.

    I promote physical products so cannot really relate to this case, but I too think that the concept of product creation is more sustainable and lucrative in the long term.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nixgan
    Brit,
    an internet marketer should always sell tons of products in the same niche , like a trial and error system.

    You should work on building your own list, then maybe your own product later on, so you get 100% profit from your work ! After all, with a product , you can work on passive income even if you don't market everyday, there are still sales.

    That is not the case for affiliate products however ! Affiliate products conk out someday, and then your website would be wasted. So, why not get your own list and put a squeeze page for yourself on your website, since setting up the website is the hard part and you got it done, the rest is a downhill trek !
    If you have any questions, just pm me or something, I will try my best to help !

    Hope I helped, good luck !
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      Originally Posted by Nixgan View Post

      Brit,
      an internet marketer should always sell tons of products in the same niche , like a trial and error system.

      You should work on building your own list, then maybe your own product later on, so you get 100% profit from your work ! After all, with a product , you can work on passive income even if you don't market everyday, there are still sales.

      That is not the case for affiliate products however ! Affiliate products conk out someday, and then your website would be wasted. So, why not get your own list and put a squeeze page for yourself on your website, since setting up the website is the hard part and you got it done, the rest is a downhill trek !
      If you have any questions, just pm me or something, I will try my best to help !

      Hope I helped, good luck !
      I am already building a list. I started about three months ago and have almost 300 people on it so far. It really doesn't seem to be doing much for me so far. Most of my sales are still coming from my site, not from the emails.

      As far as the affiliate product not being much one day....my site is going to be appealing to people in my niche for as long as people still want to have babies . If one product goes "bad" I assume I could find another. My problem is.....should I be looking for another now, considering the fact that the affiliate has an opt-in and could be stealing my potential sales.
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      • Profile picture of the author brit16
        Just wanted to update. The vendor emailed me back and basically said that if I am doing a good job "pre-selling" that her having the opt-in should not be an issue. We all know that it can take people a few times of being exposed to a product before they decide to buy. So......what she is saying is really not true. I have quite a few visitors who come back to my site. Who is to say that they wouldn't by the product the second time that they were exposed to it....but if they are exposed the second time by the vendor....instead of me, then I would lose the sell.

        Am I thinking about this the wrong way?? Should I look for a similar product? The one I am promoting has done well for me so far, I hate to change at this point. But I have a feeling I am losing sales. What would you do?

        To the vendors out there....do you have opt-in pages?
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  • Profile picture of the author Randohm
    Yes, put in your own squeeze page, contact seller and ask them to change their tactics, sign up with the seller's optin box and see what they send etc. The bottom line is some people are more fun to do business with than others. Try to remember that sellers can be new to selling just like affiliates can be new to affiliate marketing. What makes a good vendor and what makes a good advertiser are not the same thing so finding people who's skills compliment your own can be a challenge. Also finding people who's marketing plan fits into your own can also be a challenge. Sometimes a vendor can make the mistake of alienating their affiliates with their own marketing tactics when all they really wanted was to make some money for themselves, without thinking that they should either optimize their affiliates or optimize their own marketing or figure out a way to do both at the same time without making one fight against the other. I'm sorry that you are going through this. I've been there too and also found it frustrating.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    While i am not a Clickbank user but i will suggest mailing Clickbank themselves with your issue and see what they have to say.

    Chances are, you will like what they say or move on to something else, there are thousands of ways to make money online.

    On the other part, If people are making money from clickbank using similar method as yours, i believe you too can.
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      Originally Posted by johnben1444 View Post

      While i am not a Clickbank user but i will suggest mailing Clickbank themselves with your issue and see what they have to say.

      Chances are, you will like what they say or move on to something else, there are thousands of ways to make money online.

      On the other part, If people are making money from clickbank using similar method as yours, i believe you too can.
      Thanks, I had not even thought about emailing clickbank themselves. I am making money off her product, just think I could make more .


      I just searched Clickbank and was surprised to see that the product I am promoting is really the ONLY product of it's type. There are some products in the more general niche I am in, but not as specific.
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  • Profile picture of the author hashbury
    You say you have done well with them, are you one of their bigger affiliates? If you are or if you are bringing in a substantial amount of income for them you could use this as leverage to work out some sort of deal.

    I know a few ways you could probably get around this but they are borderline unethical and I will not recommend then as it is something I would feel uncomfortable doing myself.

    You obviously have some good insight into your niche and you know what it takes to sell your visitors on this product. If you could find an alternative product to replace them that might be your best bet. However, you need to make sure it is the same or even better quality than what your current vendor is offering.

    If this niche you are in is a good long term niche you are going to be better off in the long run creating your own product. Switch vendors or keep pushing your current vendor, but start working on your own product in the mean time. Offer a good freebie on your site and start creating a list. Work on your product when ever you have time, and when the time is right create a new site with a sales page similar to your current vendors sales page. Capitalize on their mistakes. Find information that is missing from their sales page that you think your visitors will want to see. Make your product better than the one(s) you promote.

    Get your new site approved on clickbank. You probably know who your current competitors are and you can reach out and contact them once you have your product on clickbank.

    Put your future in your own hands and not some vendor on clickbank.

    Just my 2 cents
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      Originally Posted by hashbury View Post

      You say you have done well with them, are you one of their bigger affiliates? If you are or if you are bringing in a substantial amount of income for them you could use this as leverage to work out some sort of deal.
      I have no clue how many affiliates she has or how I do compared to the others. I am a newbie....I was saying that "for me" I am doing well, not necessarily doing good in other marketers eyes . I have been promoting her product for a little over a year now (about 15 months) and have made a little over $2,000. ($26 for each sale) not sure how much she has made from these sales?


      Originally Posted by hashbury View Post

      If this niche you are in is a good long term niche you are going to be better off in the long run creating your own product.
      I think the niche is a great niche! (It is in my sig ) I really hope to have my site be an authority blog eventually, and I am sure you are right that I could make a lot more with my own product.
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  • Profile picture of the author ara67
    search for PLR on your niche then sell it as your own, there are a lot of inexpensive PLR products outhere and some are really good quality.....
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  • Profile picture of the author bvbiz
    Seems to be the concensus. Build the list and market to them instead of from them.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardlyold
    Hi Brit
    Just my 2 cents worth. Please anyone who knows better than me, feel free to correct me.
    To set up your program.... Go to JVZoo, get an account (this is where your sales page, product delivery, auto-responder integration, payment process and even affiliate program (your affiliates, working for you) can all be be set up with ease. To get your own product like the one you're promoting just paraphrase her stuff but do some research and make it better with your style added in there. Same with the sales pages.... copy what others are doing.... that get your attention. (of course i mean copy the style). Always trying to improve it. Add some killer bounses that are sent along with your emails and you should be all set.
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  • Profile picture of the author andrewjr
    Create a squeeze page and drive traffic to it so you can start building a list.
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  • Profile picture of the author verdi
    Hello Brit16

    There are a lot of unscrupulous internet marketers out there and if your current product owner is NOT telling you that your links will be maintained throughout her new sign-up process I would do what everyone else is telling you to do: create your own product in the same niche.

    I can appreciate that you feel more comfortable selling someone else's product because they have all the responsibility once it is sold. You might also be feeling that it is unethical to take someone else's idea and re-create it as your own. But, product creation and marketing are all about that. (How many weight-loss etc sites look almost the same?)

    What I would is to keep selling her product on your current website and then I would create my own website by creating a similar product- using a ghost writer at odesk or something - but with a different and more dynamic name and put that on Clickbank in competition with her.

    Best Wishes
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  • Profile picture of the author CTonline09
    Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

    I went on the clickbank product's sales page today that I promote. My site is set up completely around this product (it is the only one I am promoting). I write content that people in my niche are interested in reading and hope that they click over to the product and / or sign up for my list.

    The reason I am frustrated is that today I noticed that the vendor has "opt-ins" all over their sales page. (These were not there a while back when I checked for this.) I know they probably have the "right" to build a list off of their viewers, but it seems like they are capturing the leads that I sent them, and are likely making sales I am not getting credit for. Is this typical???? Should I consider looking for a seperate product that does not have an opt-in on their page? I emailed the vendor, but I am not sure that they will really be concerned. I do make her regular sales, but I'm sure she has a lot more successful affiliates than me.

    Thanks for any feedback, advice, etc!!!
    You have answered your own problem!

    Try to send visitors to a sales page only once they have opted in to your own list.

    This way you also have them as a customer as well as your vendor.

    The only issue here is that this vendor can easily harvest your visitors onto there own list and sell them there product using an affiliate id from a second ClickBank account meaning your affiliate ID gets over written and you make NOTHING.

    Honestly I would drop the vendor!
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  • Profile picture of the author eman1
    You have 2 options that you can choose from.

    1. Do product research on the Clickbank Market place and find a different product that is the type of product that you want to promote.

    2. Produce your own product, you could make much more money by doing that.
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      It sounds like the general idea here is that I should just create my own product. Everyone says this as if it is so easy . Just coming up with a simple pdf e-book for my give-away took me months, and it is not all that great!

      I know I could potentially come up with the content....at that point I would have no idea where to go. There has to be an entire site set up, with a sales page that actually converts. I would not be able to afford hiring anyone for the work it would take, so I would have to be doing it all on my own.

      Is it really something that a newbie can or should take on??? I know y'all are right that there is a lot more money to be made, it just seems a bit overwhelming!
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  • Profile picture of the author hashbury
    Ok, I kind of have mixed feelings about this product now. The lady who created this product has a a masters degree in Psychology and advanced training in blah blah etc... However, the product you are promoting seems to be a very popular book within your niche. She even has the name of the product trade marked (supposedly I didnt verify it).

    I have a feeling a lot or some of your traffic is coming from that trade marked name. If you were to create your own product and drive traffic using the trade marked name, I think this could end up being an issue if you use the name of her book to drive any traffic to your own product.

    Do you think you could create a product just as good as hers or better?

    However, after reviewing the sales page, there is no opt in that I can find. I did find it on the articles pages but I had to scroll to the very bottom of the site to find those links. Thats not as bad as I first thought.
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      Originally Posted by hashbury View Post

      Ok, I kind of have mixed feelings about this product now. The lady who created this product has a a masters degree in Psychology and advanced training in blah blah etc... However, the product you are promoting seems to be a very popular book within your niche. She even has the name of the product trade marked (supposedly I didnt verify it).

      I have a feeling a lot or some of your traffic is coming from that trade marked name. If you were to create your own product and drive traffic using the trade marked name, I think this could end up being an issue if you use the name of her book to drive any traffic to your own product.

      Do you think you could create a product just as good as hers or better?

      However, after reviewing the sales page, there is no opt in that I can find. I did find it on the articles pages but I had to scroll to the very bottom of the site to find those links. Thats not as bad as I first thought.
      Thanks, when I was clicking around on the site I saw a few different pages that were pressing the opt-in, but you are right that it is not on the first page they would be sent to.

      My traffic is all coming from google for small keywords that I have ranked for with my blog post. Along with some niche specific forum traffic and some return visitors. Not really sure what you mean by...."your traffic is coming from that trade marked name." Could you explain.

      If I were to create my own product I would not be using her site in any way. I would just try to build my website as big as I can (which is something I am trying to do anyway ) And hope that I could make sales of my book. Of course it would be nice to have affiliates as well, but I think I would really be relying on myself to make the sales. But....if I could be just as successful using her product then it is not worth all the work.

      I do not have all the creditials that she has, PHD, etc. What I have is the personal experience and the relationships I can build with the people in the niche. What do you think????? I have been thinking about this for a while, just don't know what would be worth it???
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  • Profile picture of the author vijaybh78
    You dont need to be an authoritative person or a PHD to make your own info product....the best thing you can do is curate all the contents and write a 40 to 80 page ebook which you can sell it well with all the traffic that you send...Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author smartiewriter
    Well said Hashbury!
    I would also sign up to see what she is sending to visitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author chazlcom
    I always click thru to the order page to make sure my affiliate link is there. If not, choose something else.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by chazlcom View Post

      I always click thru to the order page to make sure my affiliate link is there. If not, choose something else.
      That doesn't tell you what you need to know, in this situation, to judge whether or not you'll be paid for affiliate sales you make to other people; and you're also completely missing the point being discussed here.

      ----------------------------------

      Hi Brit,

      Few people, PhD or no PhD, are better placed in your niche to offer a product than you are.

      It makes no sense at all to promote a ClickBank product with a vendor's opt-in on the sales page, for all the reasons explained at such length and in such detail in all the threads like this one: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...oduct-opt.html

      Don't imagine that opting in, yourself, to the vendor's email series and checking what you're sent is necessarily a reliable indicator of what your subscribers will receive if/when they opt in to it. Nobody imagines that vendors who are sending their own hoplinks to overwrite an existing one are doing so with more than a small proportion of the leads. Unfortunately, they have a very powerful financial incentive to do so. If they pay 75% commission, every single sale they can get that way with their own affiliate hoplink is worth four "normal sales" to them, so they need only a very small proportion of those to double their income. This is just the arithmetical reality.

      Don't imagine that discussing it with ClickBank will be helpful. It's not their business or their problem. Their policy is that they allow this, and that once your visitor/subscriber opts in to the vendor's list, from that moment, as far as ClickBank is concerned, they "belong" to the vendor. Don't blame them for this: they can't possibly "police"/"enforce" any other policy, so they perfectly reasonably adopt a policy that doesn't necessitate that.

      What you need to do here (and I'm rather surprised to see nobody suggesting it, above), is simply to ask the vendor to give you back a copy of the former sales page as an additional alternative to the current one.

      Clearly they already have it, so it's not exactly "difficult" for them!

      Vendors who know what they're doing and want an opt-in on their sales page have to provide also another version of the sales page without the opt-in, otherwise they can't attract any serious, professional affiliates. Huge numbers of vendors do this. If a vendor really isn't willing to do so, on request from an existing, successful affiliate, then you have to think about what their behavior is really telling you about the way they want to do business, and why (and personally, I would drop them like a stone). :p

      Good luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author brit16
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        That doesn't tell you what you need to know, in this situation, to judge whether or not you'll be paid for affiliate sales you make to other people; and you're also completely missing the point being discussed here.

        ----------------------------------

        Hi Brit,

        Few people, PhD or no PhD, are better placed in your niche to offer a product than you are.

        It makes no sense at all to promote a ClickBank product with a vendor's opt-in on the sales page, for all the reasons explained at such length and in such detail in all the threads like this one: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...oduct-opt.html

        Don't imagine that opting in, yourself, to the vendor's email series and checking what you're sent is necessarily a reliable indicator of what your subscribers will receive if/when they opt in to it. Nobody imagines that vendors who are sending their own hoplinks to overwrite an existing one are doing so with more than a small proportion of the leads. Unfortunately, they have a very powerful financial incentive to do so. If they pay 75% commission, every single sale they can get that way with their own affiliate hoplink is worth four "normal sales" to them, so they need only a very small proportion of those to double their income. This is just the arithmetical reality.

        Don't imagine that discussing it with ClickBank will be helpful. It's not their business or their problem. Their policy is that they allow this, and that once your visitor/subscriber opts in to the vendor's list, from that moment, as far as ClickBank is concerned, they "belong" to the vendor. Don't blame them for this: they can't possibly "police"/"enforce" any other policy, so they perfectly reasonably adopt a policy that doesn't necessitate that.

        What you need to do here (and I'm rather surprised to see nobody suggesting it, above), is simply to ask the vendor to give you back a copy of the former sales page as an additional alternative to the current one.

        Clearly they already have it, so it's not exactly "difficult" for them!

        Vendors who know what they're doing and want an opt-in on their sales page have to provide also another version of the sales page without the opt-in, otherwise they can't attract any serious, professional affiliates. Huge numbers of vendors do this. If a vendor really isn't willing to do so, on request from an existing, successful affiliate, then you have to think about what their behavior is really telling you about the way they want to do business, and why (and personally, I would drop them like a stone). :p

        Good luck!
        Thanks so much Alexa....I was hoping you would share your opinion on the matter. One thing I didn't realize when I was first looking around the site is that the opt-in is not actually on the sales page, but if you click around at all on the site, then you find an opt-in on most pages. When I was looking around her site and noticed the opt-in I did not even realize I was not on the actual sales page. Should this still be a concern?

        The vendors response to my complaint was that if I am doing a good job pre-selling, then it should not matter that she has opt-ins on those other pages of the site. Is she right???

        I was wondering about "talking to clickbank" it seems like it would be useless!!!

        As far as creating my own product is concerned....I am torn about what to do. I know I have the knowledge, but do I have the skills to create the sales page, the time, the money????? Not sure what to think.

        Alexa - since you are a successful affiliate....have you ever created a product of your own? If not, what makes you stay as an affiliate, if there is more to be made with your own product??? Just trying to look at it from all points of view . Thanks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

          One thing I didn't realize when I was first looking around the site is that the opt-in is not actually on the sales page, but if you click around at all on the site, then you find an opt-in on most pages. When I was looking around her site and noticed the opt-in I did not even realize I was not on the actual sales page. Should this still be a concern?
          Less of a concern, arguably, I suppose.

          I still wouldn't like it very much, myself.

          The thing is: if she's changed it, she must surely still have a copy of the original, and on request from an existing, successful affiliate, it surely takes her almost no time/effort to put that back as an alternative sales page, like so many other vendors do? The "burden" is really on her, here, I think, because she's failing to do something that other vendors do?

          Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

          The vendors response to my complaint was that if I am doing a good job pre-selling, then it should not matter that she has opt-ins on those other pages of the site. Is she right???
          No, not in my opinion.

          What makes her think she's entitled to build her list from your subscribers, and not even give you a choice about whether that's acceptable to you, when you're already making sales of her product and want to continue to promote it?!

          To be blunt, I think her position is pretty close to "indefensible", here. :p

          It's not as if you're asking her anything unreasonable, after all.

          Send her a link to this thread and invite her to contribute.

          Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

          As far as creating my own product is concerned....I am torn about what to do. I know I have the knowledge
          Clearly.

          And you're in one of the most classic "desperate buyers only" niches of all time.

          And the fact that this sales page business has been such a problem for you perhaps illustrates that there's soom for another in the market? (There probably is anyway, regardless of that?).

          Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

          do I have the skills to create the sales page, the time, the money????? Not sure what to think.
          Well, the theory is that you outsource the skills you can't bring to your own table. You do need a professional sales page written by a professional copywriter, though, I think. And it is a commitment of time and some money, it's true.

          It depends whether you want to become a vendor, really.

          I think you'd probably do very well, myself.

          Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

          Alexa - since you are a successful affiliate....have you ever created a product of your own?
          No, but I might, one day. To be honest, I typically get a couple of p.m.'s per day asking me to publish a WSO or something. My problem is that the sort of niche in which I could most easily produce a product ("internet marketing"/"affiliate marketing"/"article marketing") isn't a "niche" I like, in those terms. I have no problem discussing it with people in a forum context, but that's another story altogether from producing an authoritative product about it.

          Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

          If not, what makes you stay as an affiliate, if there is more to be made with your own product???
          I like the flexibility of being an affiliate.

          As affiliates, we can build up a real, asset-based (sites and lists) business without being dependent on the continued survival, acceptability, and so on, of any specific individual product at all. Quite apart from not having to produce one, not having the technical problems, not needing to do much "customer service", not having the legal issues, and all the other headaches and risks that vendors have. In any of my 8 niches, if a product "goes wrong" on me, it's comparatively easy to replace it with another (I have, admittedly, to some extent chosen my niches to make sure that's so).

          However, I have to admit that most people will tell you (in thread after thread after thread, here, in which it's regularly discussed) that you can do much better from being a vendor than you can from being an affiliate. I don't enjoy those discussions, myself, for two main reasons: first, it strikes me that many of the arguments commonly adduced in favor of being a vendor actually apply equally to affiliates; and secondly, I sometimes wonder, when people recount how little money they made as an affiliate and how much better they're doing as a vendor, just how good they were at being an affiliate in the first place.

          Sorry, a lot of rambling here, and not much constructive help.

          But I'd genuinely be interested to know what your vendor would say to an honest and direct ultimatum along the lines of "Give me back a copy of the former sales page, or I drop your product tomorrow." She hasn't really got a leg to stand on, has she?

          Sometimes you have to play hardball, a bit, with these people who need you more than you need them. Otherwise they'll just get some people from your list onto their list, sometimes without you earning anything from them, and sometimes they'll sell them all sorts of other things, into the bargain - and these are your subscribers we're talking about, built up and nurtured and pre-sold by your skills, your energy, your time, your effort, your expenses and all the rest of it ... ok, if they buy the product through your affiliate marketing, and you get paid first, and then the vendor gets them on their list, that's entirely legitimate, of course, because anyone can opt in their own customers and contact them. Nothing wrong in that case, at all. But she has quite some cheek trying to do that before you've been paid anything and then telling you that "if you're doing a good job pre-selling, then it shouldn't matter that she has opt-ins on those other pages of the site"!!
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          • Profile picture of the author brit16
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post



            Clearly.

            And you're in one of the most classic "desperate buyers only" niches of all time.

            And the fact that this sales page business has been such a problem for you perhaps illustrates that there's soom for another in the market? (There probably is anyway, regardless of that?).
            I think there is room in the market for another product for sure! As far as I can tell there is only one product exactly like what I am wanting to promote.

            Would it be worth my while to create a product just for myself to promote? I want to continue to build my blog and I would basically be my own affiliate. But I am not all that interested in finding other affiliates to promote it, etc. Of course it would be an added bonus if others decided to promote it. Is this common practice of vendors? Does selling your own product off your blog any different than selling someone elses?? Would you still set up a seperate site/ sales page, etc???? Sorry if these questions sound ignorant!



            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Well, the theory is that you outsource the skills you can't bring to your own table. You do need a professional sales page written by a professional copywriter, though, I think. And it is a commitment of time and some money, it's true.
            I was afraid you would say this! I know I sound very cheap, but we are hurting for money so bad that it is hard to justify spending money, even when I know it is likely to make me money in the future. Any ideas how much a good sales page would cost me????

            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            It depends whether you want to become a vendor, really.
            Not sure I really "want" to be a vendor, but the idea of making 100% of my sales and knowing that I was not losing any is pretty appealing.


            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            I think you'd probably do very well, myself.
            Why :rolleyes:??? I am not so confident myself!!!

            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            No, but I might, one day. To be honest, I typically get a couple of p.m.'s per day asking me to publish a WSO or something. My problem is that the sort of niche in which I could most easily produce a product ("internet marketing"/"affiliate marketing"/"article marketing") isn't a "niche" I like, in those terms. I have no problem discussing it with people in a forum context, but that's another story altogether from producing an authoritative product about it.
            I totally understand where you are coming from, but I can honestly say I would buy a product from you. This is saying quite a bit coming from me. I have not bought any products....have learned all on my own and through this forum!!
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            • Profile picture of the author hashbury
              Originally Posted by brit16 View Post


              Why :rolleyes:??? I am not so confident myself!!!
              Have confidence in your self, you have already made income from your online venture, in my book that puts you ahead of 95% of the people here
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

              Would it be worth my while to create a product just for myself to promote?
              I don't know.

              Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

              I am not all that interested in finding other affiliates to promote it, etc.
              Why not?

              Well, nobody says you have to have affiliates - and of course there are thousands of vendors who don't.

              I'm being slightly cheeky asking why not, because I'd also have misgivings about having affiliates, if I produced a product (my main reason would mostly be that you never quite know what representations they might make "on your behalf". In a way, I'd feel more comfortable producing a pen-name product in one of my existing affiliate niches in all of which I use pen-names anyway. But there's no point in my doing that.)

              Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

              Does selling your own product off your blog any different than selling someone elses??
              Outside my direct experience, but I think you can choose, yourself, whether you're going to make it different from selling anyone else's.

              It would be a shame, in your case, to produce a "pen-name product" and lose your "personal story" in the niche, which is a great asset. I'm wondering, though, whether you could use a pen-name, if you wanted, and not lose your "personal story" at all? I do think that might be possible.

              Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

              Would you still set up a seperate site/ sales page, etc????
              I suppose you wouldn't have to, but I think you really ought to, yes. Otherwise it becomes little more than something offered to your own subscribers?

              Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

              Any ideas how much a good sales page would cost me????
              $750 with a lot of good luck, some contacts/recommendations, and a following wind. I'm not altogether plucking a figure out of the air, here: I know two or three people who might do sales copy for you for about $500 and the rest of the start-up costs are small change, by comparison. Some stuff you can learn to do yourself, others friends can help you with. (Even I might be of some small value to you, if you decide to do it.)

              Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              I think you'd probably do very well, myself.
              Why :rolleyes:???
              Ok, since you ask ...

              For (at least) six main reasons ...

              (i) It's our perception that there's room in the niche for another good product, i.e. there's much more potential demand than potential supply: we're not talking about "another dating guide" or "another diet program" or "another acne remedy" here, after all;

              (ii) You know the subject inside out, from study and personal experience, and you have contacts and friends who do, too;

              (iii) You have a compelling personal story;

              (iv) It's a real "desperate buyers' niche" and I just know a really good product will sell for a high price (higher than the one for which you're an affiliate!) and I think that would be the way to go, which is also good news if you do decide - sooner or later - to make it available to affiliates to promote, because (with no offense at all to anyone who likes promoting $17 products!), overall, you perhaps attract a better class of affiliate with a $97/$147 product if it's really worth that. And you know as well as I do that in that niche, with all the expenses people have, they'll have no problem paying a lot for a really good product (especially if it comes with something like a ClickBank guarantee?);

              (v) You're obviously a highly intelligent person of honesty and integrity who enjoys learning and is going to be willing to think everything through, take advice from reliable people, not believe everything you read all over the place, not make silly mistakes, not imagine that an entirely SEO-based business is going to be a secure long-term proposition, and so on;

              (vi) There are considerable longer-term-future upside prospects, in this regard, too, which shouldn't be ignored. Once you became established as a reliable vendor of integrity (and this project would be a very good way for you to do that) you could use it as a spring-board to move on to other things, too.

              But you have to want to do it, too. It is a really big commitment to make! I don't mean financially, so much (and you might be able to do it as a joint venture with someone who puts up the money anyway, and/or provides the sales copy, if that's a big issue). It may not fit your current plans. Only you can judge whether it's appropriate for you, in your circumstances, right now. But I do feel that in several ways, you're considerably better placed than most people would be for something that certainly appears, in principle, in itself, to be a distinctly viable project in suitable hands.
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              • Profile picture of the author brit16
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post



                Why not?

                Well, nobody says you have to have affiliates - and of course there are thousands of vendors who don't.

                I'm being slightly cheeky asking why not, because I'd also have misgivings about having affiliates, if I produced a product (my main reason would mostly be that you never quite know what representations they might make "on your behalf". In a way, I'd feel more comfortable producing a pen-name product in one of my existing affiliate niches in all of which I use pen-names anyway. But there's no point in my doing that.)
                I guess I shouldn't have said I am not interested in having affiliates.....I should have said that would not be my main purpose / interest in creating a product. But I see where you are coming from in not knowing how they would represent you.




                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                It would be a shame, in your case, to produce a "pen-name product" and lose your "personal story" in the niche, which is a great asset. I'm wondering, though, whether you could use a pen-name, if you wanted, and not lose your "personal story" at all? I do think that might be possible.
                Losing my "personal story" would really take away from what I have to offer. I have done everything else by my real name....don't really see a reason to stop now. Is there any reason that I would want to use a pen-name?????



                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                I suppose you wouldn't have to, but I think you really ought to, yes. Otherwise it becomes little more than something offered to your own subscribers?
                Makes sense.



                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                $750 with a lot of good luck, some contacts/recommendations, and a following wind. I'm not altogether plucking a figure out of the air, here: I know two or three people who might do sales copy for you for about $500 and the rest of the start-up costs are small change, by comparison. Some stuff you can learn to do yourself, others friends can help you with. (Even I might be of some small value to you, if you decide to do it.)
                Wow, I knew it would not be cheap, but I wasn't prepared for these figures! $750 or even $500 is not something I will be affording any time in the near future (probably never) Right now i think the sales copy is the biggest thing holding me back from convincing myself that this is something I should do. Would it be impossible for someone who knows nothing about this to "immitate" a good sales copy on their own???? I am not looking to "cut corners", just know this is not something I could afford. I know you mention later something about a joint venture....how does this work and where would I find someone looking for something of this nature??



                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                Ok, since you ask ...


                (iv) It's a real "desperate buyers' niche" and I just know a really good product will sell for a high price (higher than the one for which you're an affiliate!) and I think that would be the way to go, which is also good news if you do decide - sooner or later - to make it available to affiliates to promote, because (with no offense at all to anyone who likes promoting $17 products!), overall, you perhaps attract a better class of affiliate with a $97/$147 product if it's really worth that. And you know as well as I do that in that niche, with all the expenses people have, they'll have no problem paying a lot for a really good product (especially if it comes with something like a ClickBank guarantee?);
                Thanks so much for the encouraging words about "why" I could do it. It is really nice to hear from others what you already feel is true. The one I am not sure about is (iv). I agree that it is a very desperate niche....probably the most desperate of all (except maybe a medical illness or something). What I am not sure about is that I could sell an expensive product to these people. There is no "magic cure" to IVF (if there was I could sell it for thousands of dollars), with that being said I could create a good product, but these people have to spend soooo much money on infertility, that they wind up in bad financial positions. Not all of them of course, but many of us end up taking out loan after loan and spending on credit cards, etc. Do you really think they would be willing to fork out $100 on a product that is really just informational....it will not "fix" their problem???????? I have often wondered if the $49 product I am promoting is too expensive. Infertility is why I got into the whole IMing thing in the first place and is why I can't afford that sales copy !!

                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                (v) You're obviously a highly intelligent person of honesty and integrity who enjoys learning and is going to be willing to think everything through, take advice from reliable people, not believe everything you read all over the place, not make silly mistakes, not imagine that an entirely SEO-based business is going to be a secure long-term proposition, and so on;
                Thanks for noticing. Being honest and up-front has always gotten me a lot farther in life!!!

                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                (vi) There are considerable longer-term-future upside prospects, in this regard, too, which shouldn't be ignored. Once you became established as a reliable vendor of integrity (and this project would be a very good way for you to do that) you could use it as a spring-board to move on to other things, too.;
                Hadn't thought about this, but you are right there are endless possibilities in the niche.

                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                But you have to want to do it, too. It is a really big commitment to make! I don't mean financially, so much (and you might be able to do it as a joint venture with someone who puts up the money anyway, and/or provides the sales copy, if that's a big issue). It may not fit your current plans. Only you can judge whether it's appropriate for you, in your circumstances, right now. But I do feel that in several ways, you're considerably better placed than most people would be for something that certainly appears, in principle, in itself, to be a distinctly viable project in suitable hands.
                I am really starting to believe that it may be the best thing for me to do. My biggest hang up right now would be the sales copy. It is not something I would be able to create over night.....it may be something I start gradually working on. Hopefully in the meantime I can figure out how to make some more off of my blog. Thanks again for being soooo very helpful to me!!! This forum has helped me tremendously...even though you do get a lot of mixed advice. It is not too hard to pick out who actually knows what they are talking about
                Signature

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                • Profile picture of the author brit16
                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post



                  Why not?

                  Well, nobody says you have to have affiliates - and of course there are thousands of vendors who don't.

                  I'm being slightly cheeky asking why not, because I'd also have misgivings about having affiliates, if I produced a product (my main reason would mostly be that you never quite know what representations they might make "on your behalf". In a way, I'd feel more comfortable producing a pen-name product in one of my existing affiliate niches in all of which I use pen-names anyway. But there's no point in my doing that.)
                  I guess I shouldn't have said I am not interested in having affiliates.....I should have said that would not be my main purpose / interest in creating a product. But I see where you are coming from in not knowing how they would represent you.




                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  It would be a shame, in your case, to produce a "pen-name product" and lose your "personal story" in the niche, which is a great asset. I'm wondering, though, whether you could use a pen-name, if you wanted, and not lose your "personal story" at all? I do think that might be possible.
                  Losing my "personal story" would really take away from what I have to offer. I have done everything else by my real name....don't really see a reason to stop now. Is there any reason that I would want to use a pen-name?????



                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  I suppose you wouldn't have to, but I think you really ought to, yes. Otherwise it becomes little more than something offered to your own subscribers?
                  Makes sense.



                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  $750 with a lot of good luck, some contacts/recommendations, and a following wind. I'm not altogether plucking a figure out of the air, here: I know two or three people who might do sales copy for you for about $500 and the rest of the start-up costs are small change, by comparison. Some stuff you can learn to do yourself, others friends can help you with. (Even I might be of some small value to you, if you decide to do it.)
                  Wow, I knew it would not be cheap, but I wasn't prepared for these figures! $750 or even $500 is not something I will be affording any time in the near future (probably never) Right now i think the sales copy is the biggest thing holding me back from convincing myself that this is something I should do. Would it be impossible for someone who knows nothing about this to "immitate" a good sales copy on their own???? I am not looking to "cut corners", just know this is not something I could afford. I know you mention later something about a joint venture....how does this work and where would I find someone looking for something of this nature??



                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  Ok, since you ask ...


                  (iv) It's a real "desperate buyers' niche" and I just know a really good product will sell for a high price (higher than the one for which you're an affiliate!) and I think that would be the way to go, which is also good news if you do decide - sooner or later - to make it available to affiliates to promote, because (with no offense at all to anyone who likes promoting $17 products!), overall, you perhaps attract a better class of affiliate with a $97/$147 product if it's really worth that. And you know as well as I do that in that niche, with all the expenses people have, they'll have no problem paying a lot for a really good product (especially if it comes with something like a ClickBank guarantee?);
                  Thanks so much for the encouraging words about "why" I could do it. It is really nice to hear from others what you already feel is true. The one I am not sure about is (iv). I agree that it is a very desperate niche....probably the most desperate of all (except maybe a medical illness or something). What I am not sure about is that I could sell an expensive product to these people. There is no "magic cure" to IVF (if there was I could sell it for thousands of dollars), with that being said I could create a good product, but these people have to spend soooo much money on infertility, that they wind up in bad financial positions. Not all of them of course, but many of us end up taking out loan after loan and spending on credit cards, etc. Do you really think they would be willing to fork out $100 on a product that is really just informational....it will not "fix" their problem???????? I have often wondered if the $49 product I am promoting is too expensive. Infertility is why I got into the whole IMing thing in the first place and is why I can't afford that sales copy !!

                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  (v) You're obviously a highly intelligent person of honesty and integrity who enjoys learning and is going to be willing to think everything through, take advice from reliable people, not believe everything you read all over the place, not make silly mistakes, not imagine that an entirely SEO-based business is going to be a secure long-term proposition, and so on;
                  Thanks for noticing. Being honest and up-front has always gotten me a lot farther in life!!!

                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  (vi) There are considerable longer-term-future upside prospects, in this regard, too, which shouldn't be ignored. Once you became established as a reliable vendor of integrity (and this project would be a very good way for you to do that) you could use it as a spring-board to move on to other things, too.;
                  Hadn't thought about this, but you are right there are endless possibilities in the niche.

                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  But you have to want to do it, too. It is a really big commitment to make! I don't mean financially, so much (and you might be able to do it as a joint venture with someone who puts up the money anyway, and/or provides the sales copy, if that's a big issue). It may not fit your current plans. Only you can judge whether it's appropriate for you, in your circumstances, right now. But I do feel that in several ways, you're considerably better placed than most people would be for something that certainly appears, in principle, in itself, to be a distinctly viable project in suitable hands.
                  I am really starting to believe that it may be the best thing for me to do. My biggest hang up right now would be the sales copy. It is not something I would be able to create over night.....it may be something I start gradually working on. Hopefully in the meantime I can figure out how to make some more off of my blog. Thanks again for being soooo very helpful to me!!! This forum has helped me tremendously...even though you do get a lot of mixed advice. It is not too hard to pick out who actually knows what they are talking about
                  Signature

                  New to IM, any honest advice appreciated!

                  My blog (first IM project!).....IVF Success Stories

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  • Profile picture of the author hashbury
    My question to you brit16 is did the sales page ever change? Did she add the links on to the bottom of the site recently, or did she just put up the opt in on the alternative pages recently. Is it possible that the opt in was there before and you by chance might have missed it?
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      Originally Posted by hashbury View Post

      My question to you brit16 is did the sales page ever change? Did she add the links on to the bottom of the site recently, or did she just put up the opt in on the alternative pages recently. Is it possible that the opt in was there before and you by chance might have missed it?
      You have a very good point here! When I first started building my site and promoting her product I did not even know what an opt-in was . (I have came a long way in years time ) It is entirely possible that she had the opt-ins on the other pages and I did not notice because :
      a) I did not even know to look for this sort of thing.
      b) I was only on the sales page and did not notice what
      was on the other pages.
      I was frustrated a little at first, but honestly became more frustrated when hearing her response to me. I feel like I have made her a decent amount of money, and she should want to work work with me.
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      • Profile picture of the author hashbury
        Originally Posted by brit16 View Post

        You have a very good point here! When I first started building my site and promoting her product I did not even know what an opt-in was . (I have came a long way in years time ) It is entirely possible that she had the opt-ins on the other pages and I did not notice because :
        a) I did not even know to look for this sort of thing.
        b) I was only on the sales page and did not notice what
        was on the other pages.
        I was frustrated a little at first, but honestly became more frustrated when hearing her response to me. I feel like I have made her a decent amount of money, and she should want to work work with me.

        The only reason I brought this up is because she may have already had the opt in up since the site started, and got defensive once you made a point about it. I could kinda understand why she would respond that way, but she should also be able to give you a page with no leaks on it (no other links other than the join page).

        I had been promoting clickbank products for some time until I caught one of alexa's post about the opt ins. I know I am receiving more income now by promoting sites with out opt ins.
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  • Profile picture of the author business4moms
    Great - I thought it was just standard practice - now I realize that I should be concerned about it? Yikes!
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  • Profile picture of the author AnnieHz
    Before I joined WF, I read many posts. Somewhere along the way, I saw Alexa's posts about this problem. And I took her advice. There are many good saleable CB products without having to settle for ones with the vendors own opt-in. Why build the vendor's list?
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    • Profile picture of the author brit16
      Originally Posted by AnnieHz View Post

      Before I joined WF, I read many posts. Somewhere along the way, I saw Alexa's posts about this problem. And I took her advice. There are many good saleable CB products without having to settle for ones with the vendors own opt-in. Why build the vendor's list?
      This is great advice....if there are other products to choose from. There are products in my broad niche, but this is really the only product in my specific niche. As far as I can see, it is promote her product or create my own.
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  • Profile picture of the author 6figure101
    Drop them and have a similar product created...
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    I am currently looking to add 3 driven members to my new (FREE) Mastermind group - Are you interested?
    - Join my MasterMind Group -
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