Why I hate Internet Marketing

Banned 12 years ago

I do agree with what you have to say about some things..

But, these 'successful' guys fly across the country to teach as most people aren't willing to pay $5000-$10'000 for a digital product.

Think about it, if you were to dish out that kind of money. You would want some physical teaching, plus its always easier to be taught by someone in person so they can correct you immediatly if you are making any mistakes.

They use the internet to make money, maybe not their whole income but they do make money using the internet. So, they teach others how to do it.

They aren't teaching people how to fly across the country and teach people how to make money online, they are actually teaching people how to make money with the internet.

It's totally irrelevant in which the way the like to teach as long as the customer is happy.

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dodadder

12 years ago

Hey Mike,

Good points.

As a full time IM and web designer I work with an extremely popular Internet marketer (Not Guru, he hates the word Guru!) who actually does what you described. He fly's all around the country doing seminars and events. In turn people sign up for the training program because it's rather UNIQUE!

Once a month, from Thursday to Monday we fly in the individuals that signed up for the program. The unique thing about it is, we do NOT put these people into hotels, they actually stay at the mansion with us, which is the Internet Marketing Training Center.

They actually get up close and personal with the owner. He teaches these individuals everything under the sun about Internet marketing, from the latest techniques to the old stuff that still works. Now he's the only one that I know of that offers such a unique training course. How many multi millionaire so called Guru's would invite you to their HOME to live for 4 days while they teach you everything he knows about IM? NOT MANY, if any. And not only that, you get to PICK HIS BRAIN the entire time.

As far as products, yes he has many simply because he's been around since 1994! He's seen the beginning of the Internet business boom, and todays changed market, so many products are created simply because of the change.

Now most Internet marketers hide behind the Internet, because they know themselves the value in their products are weak or limited to some extent. Simple put, Internet marketing "criminals" will NEVER disclose their where abouts, let alone where they live. But if your training is premier and your totally transparent you will make a handsome living and enjoy the good reputation that comes along with it, I see it everyday!

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Dann Vicker

12 years ago

Well, it depends on whose side you are on. The people selling the shiny new objects, or buying them up.

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fin

12 years ago

My answer is: it depends.

Look at Mike Geary. I have no idea what he actually does, but it sounds like he makes 1 million a month using affiliates and PPC to sell his digital product.

I actually think MMO "gurus" still having good. Traveling and giving presentations is kinda cool if that's your thing.

The digital route will work for me: I just need a few grand per month, and a cheap country with a nice beach

.

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MikeMarin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

My answer is: it depends.

Look at Mike Geary. I have no idea what he actually does, but it sounds like he makes 1 million a month using affiliates and PPC to sell his digital product.

Mike Geary makes his money now on the back-end with his list of buyers...by renting them to other marketers.

Sadly it's no longer 2007

I doubt he's even making a profit on the front end anymore

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeMarin

Mike Geary makes his money now on the back-end with his list of buyers...by renting them to other marketers.

Sadly it's no longer 2007

I doubt he's even making a profit on the front end anymore

The experiences of one person do not define what the experience of everyone else will be though. As fin said, it depends. Same as with everything else in the world.

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fin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeMarin

Mike Geary makes his money now on the back-end with his list of buyers...by renting them to other marketers.

Sadly it's no longer 2007

I doubt he's even making a profit on the front end anymore

But does he do it whilst sitting in his pajamas?

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Kal Sallam 12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

But does he do it whilst sitting in his pajamas?

It all depends
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Mighty

12 years ago

I LOOOVEEE Internet Marketing!!

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Randall Magwood

12 years ago

I treat my business like a real business. Even though i promote digital products, the only thing that's lacking from my business and an offline business is the physical office space that they have to rent out.

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tpw

12 years ago

I will agree with #1 and #2.

I always get a chuckle when I see people who don't have a solid grasp on an industry commenting as if they know better than everyone else in that industry.

Might I suggest that even if you thought you had all of the answers when you began this thread, you probably don't... In fact, I know you don't... But to each his own.

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MN Warrior

12 years ago

I think it depends on if you're talking about affiliate marketers who promote physical vs digital, or if you're the inventor of a product who promotes digital vs physical.

Affiliate marketers who promote digital products will receive a higher commission % than those who promote non-digital for obvious reasons.

Like another person said it depends on the industry and what you're good at. Affiliate marketers who promote hotels (which is non digital) could end up making much more money than an affiliate marketer who promotes anti-virus software (which is digital).

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Nixgan

12 years ago

Hmmm, different perspective . Good for further reference I guess. But don't really know what to say about this .

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Russel Mogul

12 years ago

Can't say learnt nothing new from this ...like they say opinions are like an anus everyone has one

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Zibblu

12 years ago

There are plenty of people making a living online with just websites. I've been doing it for 7 years. I'm not filthy rich, but I don't have to have a real job (nor do I sell anything "real.")

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KoryC

12 years ago

Well, I agree with you Mike.

Most of the Guru make their money thru coaching or teaching people how to Made Money Online. And then they enjoy their so call "Internet Lifestyle", and we have to work like an ant to see some results...

You can't go big by selling affiliate products........ but selling "HOW TO" will make you Big!

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Monetize INTL

12 years ago

Hmmmm ... I've been making a GREAT living since 2004 online.

My websites ARE my businesses.

I've worked with loyal affiliates since 2004, am an affiliate myself, run programs and barely ever felt the need to sell a "hard product".

I owe a lot to the internet and try to give back as much as I can .. Unfortunately I cannot agree with the OP on this thread.

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Kenwerd

12 years ago

I think IM has been transformed into an ideal, perfect business model that supports itself and churns out money without having to do much. While it is simply one method to run a business.

If you don't put in the effort into creating and running that business, it will fail as will any other. The internet is a fantastic tool to doing that, but not the only one.

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celente

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeMarin

2. Free Traffic

This is a another dangerous. If you want rookies to flock to
you all you need to do is talk about a technique to get free
traffic. However I can tell you from experience that the experienced
marketers try to spend as much as possible.

Also you don't have a traffic problem you have a conversion
problem. If your conversions are good enough you can simply
buy traffic. There goes your traffic problem.

OK you make some pretty good points...however...

Remember with traffic you have to either trade time for money, or trade money and save time.

Meaning you have to sacrifice time if you are going to use free techniques to get you traffic. And if you want traffic now, you can get it within 5 minutes by using PPC. So you have to spend money, but get instant traffic.

Ok. The thing here is that most newbies will not have the capital to spend on PPC inintually so they have to go the FREE TRAFFIC route. That takes time and it is frustrating because they normally do not see results straight away, so they end up giving up.

On the other hand, for a newbie if they do have the money to spend on PPC, they find themselves losing money sometimes, as they do not know how to find keywords, track, test, test again and tweak copy until they have a winnner. It is not just about getting PPC and sending it to a sales page. NO NO....most the time with our PPC it takes a while before you find a winning combination, but that does not come without testing and tweaking first.

I know 2 millionaire marketers and they laugh at people using articles and press releases, and forum sig links and tags. They laugh not because they do not work, because I know they work and some of these work really well. HOwever, these guys know that PPC is where the big money is at, and that is why they do so well.

So your points are good, but you should have maybe explained them a bit more in detail first.

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radu 12 years ago

You have some good points, but the idea is to make some money from IM and then develops a real business or invest the money in order to obtain the complete financial freedom. I see that some guys make a lot of money from IM so after all that's all about...if they can... it means that I can do too. It can be built a business around products that I don't own and I can sell on the internet real products too, not virtual ones. So the succes can come from many directions but the IM is very necessary for all of us.
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JaynKeth

12 years ago

Online business is a great place to start... but eventually you want to move to offline too. How else can you start a business with <$100? Online business just need a domain, hosting, or may be a autoresponder.. and your business start running. But for offline, the barrier of entry sometimes is so high that not many preple can do it.

Once you are successful in online, you can slowly shift to offline. And believe it or not, you actually can get real big business through offline.

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David Neale

12 years ago

"Do you agree, what's your thoughts?"

Well your post is actually two posts. The first part is about all successful Internet Marketing people selling physical goods and not having actual business's which I do not agree with at all (in fact I think it's ridiculous).

Perhaps that has been true about the people you know and have worked with.

James Schramko, Allan Says, Mike Lantz, Brian Clark etc. selling physical products as their primary income?

Also I don't think any top level teacher today is ever going to say you can succeed without hard work (but you might be doing that work in your pajamas).

And the second part (and nothing to do with the first in my view) is simply a list of some basic IM truths that most junior Warriors would be aware of. Nothing to do with the first dramatic statement. So of course everybody would agree with that part (well almost everybody).

Originally Posted by MikeMarin

This form post might make some people mad, because it's like telling
them that Santa Clause isn't real.

Lately I have been thinking a lot about the commonalities
of the most successful online business's (I've had a chance
being a freelance copywriter to work in multiple 7 and 8 figure
"online business".)

And believe it or not the most successful online marketers
don't really have an "online business". Most
of them have hard products, use direct mail, sell from the stage
(which is manual labor), do coaching. They merely use the
internet as a tool.

I find it funny that the guys that sell how to make money on the
internet in their pajamas are actually getting on a plan and
flying across the country to teach people how to do that IN
PERSON.

And truth be told after meeting a lot of them this IS their
main source of income.

Here's the thing, while I stopped drinking the Guru kool aid
years ago I still see people buying into the dream of internet
lifestyle.

The internet marketing mindset is detrimental to your success here
is some of the dangerous beliefs

1. That a website is a business.

Wrong, your website is a tool and not a business. It is one form
of media. Smart business people try to use ALL forms of media
print, direct mail, radio, etc.

2. Free Traffic

This is a another dangerous. If you want rookies to flock to
you all you need to do is talk about a technique to get free
traffic. However I can tell you from experience that the experienced
marketers try to spend as much as possible.

Also you don't have a traffic problem you have a conversion
problem. If your conversions are good enough you can simply
buy traffic. There goes your traffic problem.

3. The 100% Digital Business

All the most successful online marketers sell physical
products. Yes the idea of no inventor sounds appealing, but
people don't value digital products like they do physical. In
fact, I know of a info product business who converted all their
products to digital copy and their business went almost bankrupt
and the owner said he lost 2 million dollars because of it.

I could go on and on, the real question is have you fallen for
the internet marketing myth, if so I guarantee you can be making
alot more moolah if you start treating your business like a
REAL business.

Do you agree, what's your thoughts?

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David Neale

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alexgold87

12 years ago

I agree with MikeMarin.

You cannot have a business as a website only without having offline part of it. There are lots of services who are making money online like Aweber, ClickBank and etc, but they also have offline part as real meeting with clients, offices and other "business stuff".

So, business is always about offline and in some cases about online as a benefit.

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Monja

12 years ago

I think you make some valid points. People do value hard products more than digital ones BUT since we now have iTunes and such stuff I think we start valuing it more. Actually it has a big advantage: you can have it NOW and don't have to wait days until it´s delivered.

the other point is - a website is a medium, yes, such as a shop somewhere but still - it´s my business and independent from the town and such so i believe the website is the better medium to interact with your users.

internet marketing though isn't easy. it's actually a hard business but just because people try to teach you that there is a short cut. i can't find a report somewhere on "how to have a supermarket set up over night and make millions from it" ;-)
so i guess people have wrong expectations when they start first and that is the point.

it does work though, there is no reason it can't but it depends - as each and every business - on some factors.

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James Schramko

12 years ago

#3 is a myth. Test that assumption a little further. Software, Information products and services can be delivered without physical elements.

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Jamesmoru

12 years ago

There's no doubt that internet marketing is still far from being a good source of full income.
At the end of the day, it's an extremely risky business, and without good knowledge of it, one could easily lose everything (take for example the recent google updates which through thousands of website under the bus).

I guess that there are simply some people who are just into it, what can we do?

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James Schramko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jamesmoru

There's no doubt that internet marketing is still far from being a good source of full income.
At the end of the day, it's an extremely risky business, and without good knowledge of it, one could easily lose everything (take for example the recent google updates which through thousands of website under the bus).

I guess that there are simply some people who are just into it, what can we do?

Internet Marketing is NOT a business. Thats the point.

The Internet is a marketing channel for a business.

What can you do?

Create a real business. Learn more.

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raheelmushtaq

12 years ago

JAMES why isn't Internet a real business? i mean there are thousands of websites which are earning just from the internet rather than sales and all.! they do not sell anything or something, and some even offer internet services so doesn't that counts as a earning source or something?

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James Schramko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by raheelmushtaq

JAMES why isn't Internet a real business? i mean there are thousands of websites which are earning just from the internet rather than sales and all.! they do not sell anything or something, and some even offer internet services so doesn't that counts as a earning source or something?

The internet is a connector between people and businesses.

I sell services and information online. I use the internet to connect me to customers.

this blog post by Seth Godin makes a similar point:
Seth's Blog: Do you have a people strategy?

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raheelmushtaq

12 years ago

so that makes a grocery store a connection to sell stuff rather than being a business because it is a connection between the customers and the products you are selling Right?

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James Schramko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by raheelmushtaq

so that makes a grocery store a connection to sell stuff rather than being a business because it is a connection between the customers and the products you are selling Right?

Yes. The shop is the place the business is conducted. The business is a food business. That same shop might also have a website and conduct business over the internet.

The point is, the shop has to have a business in it same as a website has to have a business supporting it.

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louie6925

12 years ago

The first thing for me to add is answering the quote "A website is not a business" Well not wanting to burst your bubble, but YES it is! simply if it makes money no matter how big or small then it is a business! fullstop.

However your post is a good one and more people do need to take note of your points, especially newbies, as you're right, you can't just sit in your PJ's and make good money and NO the guru's don't earn their money this way. If they did then they would'nt have to teach people their so called methods! they would just rinse and repeat what they are already doing!

The IM dream is what lines the pockets of thousands, some call it good marketing, I call it exploitation, however newbies need to know the truth! I offer some advice in my sig, but each person has to take responsibility for their actions! and think before buying anything online!

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Why I hate Internet Marketing

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