Do you know what "Blackhat" really means?

Jared,

I thought you said blackhat/whitehat refered to movies and cowboys? Neither you nor your friend mentioned this at all in your descriptions. :confused:

Those definitions will do for me and i'll continue to do my marketing as described in the White Hat definition above.

Sure, it could mean that it takes me longer to make my millions, but I can live with that and I can also look myself in the mirror and like what I see (apart from the beer gut of course )

I think the problem arises because blackhat originally refered to SEO that didn't adhere strictly to Google's "rules".

Since, the term had been adopted and distorted to be used in other methods of marketing, to the point there is no one single, accurate definition.

Brian,

"Blackhat" does not embrace fraudulent or unethical tactics. Many seem to have confusion in that distinction, including the OP of this thread as well as all of the wso sellers I've seen here who use the term for titillation's sake.

The most successful "blackhat" wso seller here has stolen most of his ideas and scripts from legitimate product developers and owners. Ah, another example of something fraudulent and unethical ... but certainly far beyond the bounds of "blackhat".

my analogy is like this...

Blackhat - is like the athelete at the olympics thats takes steroids, wins a load of medals over a short period of time but as soon as he gets busted gets striped of them all... once the heat dies they start over again...

Whitehat - is like the athlete who trains for years and finally starts winning medals its a slow process but rewarding...

Greyhat - is the athlete that trains regularily but chugs 10 cans of energy drink before each race and actually wins a few medals here and there - hes not actually doing anything wrong but his actions might raise a few eyebrows!

everything in moderation... you can do whitehat tactics, but do them over and over again and that theoretically takes that into unethical practice??? then you automate this and take it to another level??? Is this then Grey hat???

For me blackhat is duping/misleads people into doing something that rewards the blackhatter

just my 2cents

I don't think we're "fellow students" of anything. Don't bother with the salute.
Hah?! It's not that deep, really.

Yep, it matters to me too. In fact I'm sure that it matters a great deal to others here on this forum as well.

I think the thing that's being missed here is the differing perceptions resulting from length of exposure to Internet Marketing and people's upbringing.

When I first started almost everything people were recommending seemed to be blackhat. Now I have a much clearer idea of what I consider to be Blackhat, Greyhat and Whitehat.

But that's all it is, my opinion.

If we exclude strategies that are obviously illegal, people will still differ on what constitutes the different hats.

For instance, I think anything that 'pollutes' the internet is Blackhat, for example, creating hundreds of automated blogs or using article spinners. Other people may laugh at me for being naive, but that is my sincerely held belief.

Which leads us to another interesting question. If a marketer you respected started promoting a Blackhat product, what would you do?

Martin

Well spoken John... so, how long is a piece of string? (in any context)

After stepping back and thinking about it...

I guess my motives with this thread is to measure what lengths of string people believe in.

I don't know about equating with good or bad, but black hats just look cooler. Look at any of the old Clint Eastwood westerns. I would have puked if Clint had pulled on a white hat (although not as bad as a pink one).

I equate white hats with golfers who wear pastel colours. You won't catch me dead in one.

Oh, we're not talking about fashion?

Bah! Back to whipping my hamsters into shape. BTW, they don't wear white hats either,. They've got these cool black berets. Don't mess with them.

This all could be true, its just the way business goes. You do good stuff and comply with the rules. And black hat method could bust your site if big G tracts where all your hefty backlinks coming from.

Lets not get confused with semantics, "blackhat" is just a word.

Criminal actions- intended to defraud or harm another person (as opposed to search engine tactics) ... obviously are wrong and immoral.

The word blackhat has been use to denote various SEO activities lately.

Not that I agree with either, but there's no sense in defending or attacking a word.

Kurt, Amen, dude. This business is one of the sloppiest I've ever seen, in terms of how we misuse and distort the language. We can't even keep our own jargon straight.

We have tons of minimally clued people trying to sound sophisticated. They use words to get attention without knowing what those words really mean, and that confuses other minimally clued folks. Distortion abounds.

(Going into pedant mode...)

As Jared mentioned, the term "black hat" comes from early westerns. In those movies, the bad guys almost always wore black hats. That was the visual clue for the viewers. "See this one? That's the villain."

Many of the bad guys in those movies were characters who would lie, cheat, steal and (sometimes) shoot you in the back. They were totally self-focused.

There were others, though, who had a sense of honor, but had no use for conventional rules. They lived by their own, and they made (and took) their own chances. They were unrepentant, powerful individuals.

The perfect archetype.

(End pedantry.)

As you say, you can't tell if something is ethical or not based on that word alone. The world doesn't work like those movies, where black and white were more than just the colors available. A lot of what I see called 'blackhat' is just clever technique. A good chunk is, as Brian mentioned, flat out illegal. A lot more is in the grey areas, where it's more a question of application than technique itself.

The sort of stuff you referred to - not evil, but playing at or over the edges of the rules - is called blackhat because the people doing it see themselves as the "make your own rules" types that made the honorable villains of old westerns so interesting.

Peter, There are limits to what is allowed here, and they exist for very good reasons. They're not going away any time soon.

The last part of your statement is something that always makes me chuckle. It's so illogical, and yet so many people say it, without a clue of the humor.

How, sir, do you know if you want to read it without actually reading it?

Gopal, Welcome to my personal blacklist.

sevenish, Read first. Then respond.

The interjection of SEO is a natural thread drift, but it has nothing to do with Jared's OP, except through that drift. Note that this discussion is NOT - notice that word - about just blackhat SEO.

Your insistence that it is have led you to be pointlessly rude.

When someone says "my definition," and makes no effort to force adherence to said definition, you should consider that an opportunity for clarity in communication. Not an excuse to bash them for having a different understanding of the word than you.

One of my favorite Frank Herbert quotes is, as I recall it, "All definitions should be considered probationary."


Paul

I don't understand your point. Google doesn't care if people write content that is intended to rank high in the search engines. In fact, one of their guidelines that you linked to says "Think about the words users would type to find your pages, and make sure that your site actually includes those words within it."

Google isn't the enemy here - it actually helps them if high-quality sites use SEO methods that help Google find them and rank them accordingly.


If you are purposefully breaking someone's terms in an effort to promote your website, then you are using gray/blackhat strategies. Simply promoting your site in an effort to get it highly ranked is not a problem. Breaking rules to make it happen is the problem.

Well, you should have just said this in the beginning, LOL! I agree with why someone would be concerned here. If someone tries a method they don't know is blackhat and a situation like this would happen I would feel bad for them.

But, I think a more important point, which was brought up already, is to follow the TOS of any affiliate site or site you need for your business. It is your responsibility to read what is allowed and what isn't. If you are doing something shady you should probably know. Do your research and due dilligence!

BTW, I don't want anyone to think I am a blackhatter, or anything and I am not exactly defending it. It just means different things to different people.

this is an interesting thread - i had a similar discussion recently about this with someone else on this board regading my own methods - its evident peoples ideas of blackhat and whitehat methods vary greatly and some will defend their methods and cast their views and opinions passionately...

if it has to be strictly black or white - any form of gaming google or trying to exploit a known loophole to enhance your rankings has to go down as blackhat... period no ifs or buts.

and if thats the case then pretty much most people right now dont even realize they are using some form of blackhat techniques...

for me then i guess im as blackhat as the next person but in all honesty i dont really care... i dont consider myself to be hurting anyone, or conning them in anyway...

@lavaleekathy - just curious... do you backlink your own websites by bookmarking yourself or using social media websites? do you get links from high page ranking sites? If so would you consider that whitehat and ethical or blackhat and unethical? you do realize in certain circles you may not even realize that you are in fact implementing blackhat methods... just because your not aware of a method being blackhat doesnt mean its whitehat either!