Kicking Out The Trolls In The WSO Forum

12 years ago

Totally agree.

I revisited a WSO today that was derailed by a competitor and his raving kool-aid drinking fans.

They made such a mockery of the thread that the WSO creator closed the offer.

My last WSO has also been closed and removed from the forum -- my choice -- due to a similar circumstance.

First a complaint was made that the product was only video. I countered that there was also a PDF in the product. Then the individual involved proceeded to insinuate that I was unqualified to teach the material, even though I have more than a decade in the industry.

It was not an attack on the product... It was an attack on my reputation...

I responded poorly to the situation and embarrassed myself, so I pulled the offer.

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AmandaT

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Totally agree.

I revisited a WSO today that was derailed by a competitor and his raving kool-aid drinking fans.

They made such a mockery of the thread that the WSO creator closed the offer.

My last WSO has also been closed and removed from the forum -- my choice -- due to a similar circumstance.

First a complaint was made that the product was only video. I countered that there was also a PDF in the product. Then the individual involved proceeded to insinuate that I was unqualified to teach the material, even though I have more than a decade in the industry.

It was not an attack on the product... It was an attack on my reputation...

I responded poorly to the situation and embarrassed myself, so I pulled the offer.

That is really too bad. I've picked up a handful of your products now and they have all been fantastic.

I've been noticing these people in there more and more... I buy a lot of PLR so I go to read through reviews and there is always a handful of people there just to debate the use of PLR. If you don't like PLR, just don't click on the PLR WSOs!

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sfx1971

12 years ago

OK, I will be keeping my beady eyes open and hopefully I'm gonna get me a troll!

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RyanLB

12 years ago

For sure, I know what you mean. And there are quite a few of them that seem to hang around and pull this crap repeatedly.

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Tsnyder

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

To give this post it's proper context, I'm not talking about people who have legitimate questions in a WSO thread (Warrior Special Offer forum to you newbs), nor am I talking about people who have purchased the product and given constructive feedback that follows the rules; those definitely belong there.

I've had it up to here with people who troll the WSO forum and type nothing but negative comments that have nothing or little to do with the product. Or trolls who make accusations that are completely false (they didn't buy the product so how can they make accusations without any proof).

The BEST way to deal with the trolls is to use the "report post" icon which is underneath everyone's name. This will alert the mods and they will decide what to do with it.

I've seen some really kick butt WSOs getting a few trolls who's only intention is to talk smack.

The Mods can't catch all of these, so as a community, I ask you when you're in there and see a troll comment that breaks the rules to not engage in flame war with them, just use the report post button and the mods will take care of it.

It's time we kicked the trolls out of there.

Legitimate questions and constructive criticism are more than welcomed to stay in there as those help both the sellers and buyers alike.

Ok, back to troll-hunting this evening. I just need to do a couple more tequila shots!

RoD

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warrior_money

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

To give this post it's proper context, I'm not talking about people who have legitimate questions in a WSO thread (Warrior Special Offer forum to you newbs), nor am I talking about people who have purchased the product and given constructive feedback that follows the rules; those definitely belong there.

I've had it up to here with people who troll the WSO forum and type nothing but negative comments that have nothing or little to do with the product. Or trolls who make accusations that are completely false (they didn't buy the product so how can they make accusations without any proof).

The BEST way to deal with the trolls is to use the "report post" icon which is underneath everyone's name. This will alert the mods and they will decide what to do with it.

I've seen some really kick butt WSOs getting a few trolls who's only intention is to talk smack.

The Mods can't catch all of these, so as a community, I ask you when you're in there and see a troll comment that breaks the rules to not engage in flame war with them, just use the report post button and the mods will take care of it.

It's time we kicked the trolls out of there.

Legitimate questions and constructive criticism are more than welcomed to stay in there as those help both the sellers and buyers alike.

Ok, back to troll-hunting this evening. I just need to do a couple more tequila shots!

RoD

The troll-hunting squad is now at your service sir. Let me get my gear and bring back a few troll heads. Beware, the enemies lurk in the shadow and there're just too many of them

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Trolls have no business at all in the WSO threads. If they haven't purchased, kick them out. Report the posts immediately. Don't even bother to respond.

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Fernando Veloso

12 years ago

Rod,

You think that is bad? Guess you need to visit SEO sub-forum more often.

Nice hunting everyone... they are out there.

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Mark Andrews Banned 12 years ago

What is good to know is that a few of us older more established Warriors (who have been around this forum for a good few years) are still commited to the place and are helping to keep the overall forum as clean as possible.

Keep up the good work guys!

Mark Andrews
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AmandaT 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Rod,

You think that is bad? Guess you need to visit SEO sub-forum more often. Nice hunting everyone... they are out there.

I'm nowhere near brave enough to enter that realm...
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  To add a bit to what Rod said:
  
  To report a post, click the little red triangle to the lower left of the post you're reporting. Include enough detail to make it clear for the mods. We'll look at it and make a decision on what is the most appropriate response/action.
  
  If the word "spam" is enough to be clear, like with the idiots who post Louis Vuitton ads in WSO threads, that's all you need to include. If there's more detail needed, please include it.
  
  The word "SCAM" is rarely enough detail...
  
  I estimate that the forum gets around 6000 posts a day. As you can imagine, it's not possible for the mods to see all of them. So, we depend on folks reporting the problems. That's the only way things get cleaned out in a reliable fashion. We'll deal with stuff we see in the course of participating, but that's a fairly small percentage of the problems.
  
  Use that button, folks.
  
  Paul
  
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  Tom B Banned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Use that button, folks.
  
  Paul
  
  Nope, not working. I just tried the report button on Paul's post and it didn't do anything.
  
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  Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  CB,
  
  Nope, not working. I just tried the report button on Paul's post and it didn't do anything.
  
  Works for me.
  
  BTW... Consider yourself told.
  
  Paul
  
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Rod Cortez 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Rod,

You think that is bad? Guess you need to visit SEO sub-forum more often. Nice hunting everyone... they are out there.

I seldom visit the SEO sub-forum because I personally don't find enough value in there to invest my time in. Though trolls should be reported no matter what forum they are in.

The difference between those two forums is night and day in one sense: The WSO forum is where people are trying to sell their products and services, the SEO sub forum is not.

It's not fair to the seller when someone makes false accusations or makes a complaint about the format or anything else that trys to ruin or damage the WSO that is not within the rules. I saw some really bad ones last night and reported each and every one of them. They were in some really solid WSOs and their negative comments had zero basis in fact.

I realize not everyone is going to use the report post icon button, but if even just a few more % of visitors in there would report any of the rule violations, the mods can be alerted a whole lot faster.

RoD
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Joseph Robinson Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Rod,

You think that is bad? Guess you need to visit SEO sub-forum more often. Nice hunting everyone... they are out there.

Can't pass this up:

Paul and Bill,

Thanks for clearing that up. I was curious as to how the aftermath of those kinds of things are handled. It can certainly be tricky sometimes.
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  Joe,
  
  It can certainly be tricky sometimes.
  
  You have a little-used gift for understatement.
  
  Paul
  
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Rick Britton

12 years ago

I got one the other day. They had created an account just to go on a WSO thread to troll on a reviewer, quoting and mocking the feedback when clearly they hadn't bought the product

Will keep my eyes out, let's do it people, let's kick them out of Dodge!

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by bowerboy

Don't people have a right to say if it is a genuinely bad WSO..isn't everyone's opinion different? Or is it a case of agree with me or go away?

Given the stream of negative comments about WSO's you would have to think there is some basis to the comments??

Not unless you have bought it then you can leave a review. If you haven't bought it, you cannot.

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salegurus 12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Not unless you have bought it then you can leave a review. If you haven't bought it, you cannot.

I agree that posts that are blatantly trying to derail a WSO or damage the reputation of the seller should be flagged but saying only people who have paid can leave a comment, i don't know.

What about review copies? The recipients have not paid, and most of the time they feel obliged to leave a glowing review.
Also what about friends and business partners leaving reviews, you know:
"I have known so and so for donkeys years, great guy, no brainer always delivers excellent..."
What about those, they have not paid either?

Sometimes people who have not actually bought the WSO are the ones who spot fake screenshots and other inconsistencies and post a question or warning.

I realize that there are people here who make a living solely from the WSO section and that's fine, they obviously want to protect their business.
If it's decided that only people that have paid can leave reviews it should work both ways....

> Theo
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- Bill Farnham 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by salegurus
  
  Sometimes people who have not actually bought the WSO are the ones who spot fake screenshots and other inconsistencies and post a question or warning.
  
  God bless them.
  
  I can recall quite a few instances where dubious WSO claims and screenshots have been outed and brought to light under those circumstances.
  
  "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges..."
  
  ~Bill
  
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Rus Sells

12 years ago

Sure they have a right, IF they made the purchase and don't personally attack the seller.

Originally Posted by bowerboy

Don't people have a right to say if it is a genuinely bad WSO..isn't everyone's opinion different? Or is it a case of agree with me or go away?

Given the stream of negative comments about WSO's you would have to think there is some basis to the comments??

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TheArticlePros

12 years ago

I know this won't happen today or tomorrow, but is there any way to limit the people posting in a WSO thread only to the ones who actually bought it?

-- j

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cybernetuk

12 years ago

Just as bad I find is the people that post only good reviews for the sake of getting a free copy. I have purchased WSO's that have subsequently had the user banned, and and found that the methods used were useless. Yet there were some absolutely glowing reviews on the thread!

If you spend much time on the WSO thread you begin to notice these posters. Some even have a copy paste review where they just change a few details. This to me is just as worthy of the title 'Troll'!

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Kay King

12 years ago

When it comes to WSO threads I only report what I see as clear violations. But I have to wonder recently whether it's worth doing. Maybe patrolling the thread should be left to the person who paid for the thread.

A clear attempt to hijack a thread to an affiliate link was reported - the post itself was removed but the person remains and posted again in that thread. Removing sigs was a good idea but the trolls are busy finding ways to slide in their ads.

The more I see in recent WSO threads - the more I think comments should be disallowed. Make them a classified ad thread - and nothing more - and you wouldn't have the problems of trolls, "friend" postings, etc.:p

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Paul Barrs

12 years ago

Found this in a Google search from SodaHead

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Francis Ochoco

12 years ago

I agree, an unfortunate thing about trolls leaving negative comments is that it scares away potential affiliates.

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Chris Worner

12 years ago

Here is the troll in his natural habitat;

-Chris

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cyberws 12 years ago

Paul and Chris: thanks for the great laugh! So appropriate, too. LOL
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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bowerboy

I must admit that if someone is genuinely slating a product without having bought or used it then that is definitely not fair play.

But if someone genuinely has a grievance then they should have their right to voice that opinion.

Just wondering how you tell the people who have a genuine grievance from those who are just making trouble??

You're right Bowerboy, people do have a right to share a genuine concern. Like I stated in my OP, genuine feedback and constructive criticism and pertinent questions are allowed in the WSO forum. That kind of feedback makes the forum run better.

I wasn't referring to those at all. I was referring to the negative comments that have no basis in fact. For example, I saw a post last night where the person claimed the OP was "scamming" with zero proof (and it was a stellar WSO in my opinion, yes I bought it).

How can you tell someone bought it? You can usually tell with the details they share about the product / service. When people make generalized comments with no details, it's usually obvious they did not buy it.

Originally Posted by cybernetuk

Just as bad I find is the people that post only good reviews for the sake of getting a free copy. I have purchased WSO's that have subsequently had the user banned, and and found that the methods used were useless. Yet there were some absolutely glowing reviews on the thread!

If you spend much time on the WSO thread you begin to notice these posters. Some even have a copy paste review where they just change a few details. This to me is just as worthy of the title 'Troll'!

That's an entirely different discussion altogether. Also leaving glowing testimonials even after receiving a review copy is not against the rules, one just has to disclose that they received a review copy. Secondly, people are banned for many different kinds of reasons, it doesn't necessarily mean they were scammers or even permanently banned.

I don't think it's even in the same realm of being a troll.

Originally Posted by bowerboy

Thanks for sharing the Troll description..it does fit a lot of people on this forum for sure...i guess it reiterates the jist of this thread that everyone is entitled to their opinion..the people I would consider trolls on WF I am sure are what most others would consider Stalwarts of the forum.

Ultimately it's the mods who enforce the rules who decide what a troll is. All we can do as a community is to report them. People leaving glowing testimonials after they received the product is their opinion and they are allowed to leave one, so it's not violating any of the rules.

Constructive feedback, even if it's negative, is allowed in WSO threads. I've seen quite a bit and I think it makes the WSO forum run a little smoother.

RoD

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Hey Rod,

I have seen some of what you mention although I don't tend to browse the WSO section like I used to because there's so much rehashed crap nowawadays.

The thing that bugs me (on a slightly different note) about WSOs is the amount that are making blatent BS promises and guarantees of results which just cannot be promised.

There are a lot of "post Panda" WSOs selling exactly the stuff that will get people slapped by Panda and even with comments like "I guarantee you will get a boost in your SERPS" or even crazier "I guarantee you'll get on the first page of Google".

These really bug me because they suck in naive members who are clueless about SEM and think these WSOs constitute experts sharing future-proof strategies, and don't know enough to realise the sales pages say enough to tell them they should stay away.

Even with the offers that are genuinely good and you could expect to be part of a sound SEM plan, if you use them on a site that's already slapped by Google you'll get ZERO traction, and certainly no first page results. So positioning them as the antidote to a problem they don't control is crazyness.

I've quizzed some sellers via Skype about their promises and the general response is "it doesn't sound so exciting without the promises", which is like saying "if I don't lie about the results people will get - they won't buy my stuff".

And you don't need to buy the product/service to know they're BS or being very generous 'exagerrated'.

So while I see that there are people who are just bored and want to troll the forum or even trash their competitors offers - there are also probably a percentage where they're people commenting on a blatent flaw in the offer, which the seller purposely ignores and fails to answer. Those sellers then complain to the mods that someone is trying to derail their offer when their offer is the real problem.

I know it's not possible to vet the WSOs and there are not that many 'special' offers in there these days, but I guess knowing how great that section used to be just makes me think it's gone too far the other way now and just letting people sell anything as long as they pay their listing fee is not ultimately helping the members here.

/rant

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Hey Rod,

I have seen some of what you mention although I don't tend to browse the WSO section like I used to because there's so much rehashed crap nowawadays.

The thing that bugs me (on a slightly different note) about WSOs is the amount that are making blatent BS promises and guarantees of results which just cannot be promised.

There are a lot of "post Panda" WSOs selling exactly the stuff that will get people slapped by Panda and even with comments like "I guarantee you will get a boost in your SERPS" or even crazier "I guarantee you'll get on the first page of Google".

These really bug me because they suck in naive members who are clueless about SEM and think these WSOs constitute experts sharing future-proof strategies, and don't know enough to realise the sales pages say enough to tell them they should stay away.

Even with the offers that are genuinely good and you could expect to be part of a sound SEM plan, if you use them on a site that's already slapped by Google you'll get ZERO traction, and certainly no first page results. So positioning them as the antidote to a problem they don't control is crazyness.

I've quizzed some sellers via Skype about their promises and the general response is "it doesn't sound so exciting without the promises", which is like saying "if I don't lie about the results people will get - they won't buy my stuff".

And you don't need to buy the product/service to know they're BS or being very generous 'exagerrated'.

So while I see that there are people who are just bored and want to troll the forum or even trash their competitors offers - there are also probably a percentage where they're people commenting on a blatent flaw in the offer, which the seller purposely ignores and fails to answer. Those sellers then complain to the mods that someone is trying to derail their offer when their offer is the real problem.

I know it's not possible to vet the WSOs and there are not that many 'special' offers in there these days, but I guess knowing how great that section used to be just makes me think it's gone too far the other way now and just letting people sell anything as long as they pay their listing fee is not ultimately helping the members here.

/rant

You bring up some good points. First off, if this were my forum I would not allow income claims. Period. But it's not my call. Besides, it would force people to write better copy, make more compelling videos, etc. But hey......

Regarding offers that do raise some concerns, people are allowed to ask legitimate questions about the offer. If there is a legitimate concern I would first start with what you've been doing already, communicating with the seller.

But I agree with you on one level, there are some offers in there that are just put together with a lot of hype and shaky claims.

Though you bring up some very valid points, my main concern in this thread is the people who deliberately try and discredit someone's WSO. That is something that's just got to stop. The other issues.......well, you know, they have been discussed before and some new rules were put in place.

However, I think part of the onus is on the community, not just the individual, to police the forums and to help out the mods by alerting them of the rule breakers.

RoD

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cashp0wer 12 years ago

I was just thinking I needed a break so I hit this forum. Now I can go hunting and catch me some trolls. This day is getting more and more interesting.
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Michael Franklin

12 years ago

I don't get trolls but I constantly get these incoherent posts from people who are trying to up their post count....Is there a name for this group as well?

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cjreynolds

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Franklin

I don't get trolls but I constantly get these incoherent posts from people who are trying to up their post count....Is there a name for this group as well?

I dunno... "Post Whores"?

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Michael Franklin 12 years ago

Originally Posted by cjreynolds

I dunno... "Post Whores"?

Haha! I like it!....Very catchy!
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Brad Gosse

12 years ago

Put it in context, when someone is negative, often it's a pattern. View their previous posts. If all they do is the same negative stuff reply to that.

There are people who troll WSO's here that have admitted to all kinds of mental illness in other threads. Quote them on their garbage. THis helps your customers see the posters true colors.

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ericbryant

12 years ago

Thanks for this post, you're right, there is so much garbage out there. Also a lot of bad comments, hehe...

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insanebank

Banned 12 years ago

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

bowerboy,

But if someone genuinely has a grievance then they should have their right to voice that opinion

What part of "They can" is giving you trouble?

If you don't believe they can, just go browse through some of the longer threads in that section.

Given the stream of negative comments about WSO's you would have to think there is some basis to the comments??

To some? Yes, and if they report the problems using the system in place, most of that gets fixed. We can't do anything about "I just didn't like it," except be sure the seller honors their posted refund policy, if they have one.

Sadly, some people know that, and try to turn "I didn't like it" into "He's a scammer!" A few of them have started to discover that lying about what happened is every bit as bad for the buyer as failing to deliver is for a seller.

Theo,

but saying only people who have paid can leave a comment, i don't know.

Anything less than "You can't comment if you didn't buy" leaves the door wide open for all sorts of abuse. If you look at the gripes from people who scream that they aren't allowed to post "reviews," you'll find that most of the alleged "reviews" were abusive and/or inaccurate, and from people who hadn't bought the product.

I have had to ban a number of people multiple times and for escalating periods in order to make them understand that paid advertising threads are not the proper place for them to set up soap boxes about the state of the industry.

Sometimes people who have not actually bought the WSO are the ones who spot fake screenshots and other inconsistencies and post a question or warning.

Yep. And if it's an obvious faked screen shot, we close the offer and thank the person who reported it. But it's not always faked, and making those accusations publicly and being wrong needs to have consequences for the person doing it.

Example: Someone insisted recently that a screen shot was faked because it used commas in numbers where North Americans use periods. Fortunately, that accusation was private, as in some countries, including the seller's, the commas are the accepted convention.

If they'd made the accusation publicly, it could have started an avalanche of screaming from which the seller's reputation might never have recovered. That sort of freefall can result in all sorts of problems we have no ability to correct. All because someone wanted to look smart publicly, when all they would have revealed is their inexperience.

On the flip side, we look at those reports very carefully, and we WILL ban anyone using a provably altered screenshot. It doesn't have to be faked. Even changed in ways that look like it might have been faked is enough.

We don't ban people for privately reporting suspicions, even if the suspicions turn out to be wrong. We appreciate the attention, and we know they won't all be right. But we also know that if they don't report it, the bad stuff stays posted along with the good.

Kay,

The more I see in recent WSO threads - the more I think comments should be disallowed. Make them a classified ad thread - and nothing more - and you wouldn't have the problems of trolls, "friend" postings, etc

True. You also wouldn't have the balance of reviews we get. Including the negative reviews and the questions that make the limits of the product clear to folks before they buy.

Rod,

Regarding offers that do raise some concerns, people are allowed to ask legitimate questions about the offer.

[chuckle] You'd be amazed how many times I tell sellers that, and they argue with me. Some of these guys seems to think they can just report anything that isn't all sunshine and daisies and we'll delete it. When you tell them the proper response to legitimate questions is to give them a straight answer, a few of them absolutely freak out.

It tells me a lot about who we're dealing with. But then, the ones who know that answering is the right way to handle it never report them anyway, unless it really is an extreme case of trolling.

Paul

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Karen Blundell

12 years ago

Then you have those silly people who think that we don't notice that they are posting a one-line comment in someone's very popular WSO for the express purpose of exposing their sig file.

Ya, I think we need to report those guys too. They offer zero value to any thread and they are just...spammers.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

Then you have those silly people who think that we don't notice that they are posting a one-line comment in someone's very popular WSO for the express purpose of exposing their sig file.

Ya, I think we need to report those guys too. They offer zero value to any thread and they are just...spammers.

Not anymore... There are no longer signatures or post counts in the WSO sub-forum.

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Karen Blundell 12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Not anymore... There are no longer signatures or post counts in the WSO sub-forum.

that's what I thought! thanks for reminding me, Bill. Hmmm, the post I saw today in a popular WSO had a link which I thought was a sig. It must have been an in-content link then. The cheek!
:rolleyes:
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doingwrite

12 years ago

Wow thank you. I am currently writing and re-writing which will soon to be my first WSO, and I haven't even been paying attention to the trolls. OMG. Just one more thing... Sigh. Thank you for posting this.

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

This is the exact reason why people get away with selling garbage in WSO's. If nobody is there to challenge the garbage that gets posted there then whats the point? If someone asks a question the OP doesn't like or maybe he thinks a comment is hurting his WSO he can just get it reported and removed. That lets people get away with selling garbage WSO's. If their product sucks let them get called out on it and they can defend their product if they have the facts to back it up.

The WSO rules are a joke right now.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

This is the exact reason why people get away with selling garbage in WSO's. If nobody is there to challenge the garbage that gets posted there then whats the point? If someone asks a question the OP doesn't like or maybe he thinks a comment is hurting his WSO he can just get it reported and removed. That lets people get away with selling garbage WSO's. If their product sucks let them get called out on it and they can defend their product if they have the facts to back it up.

The WSO rules are a joke right now.

You and others who feel this way don't get to be the judge, jury and executioner thankfully. You can ask polite, legitimate pre-sell questions. You can't smear a listing just because you want to.

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You and others who feel this way don't get to be the judge, jury and executioner thankfully. You can ask polite, legitimate pre-sell questions. You can't smear a listing just because you want to.

nobody is trying to be judge jury and executioner. If someone smells a garbage WSO and knows something is fishy, why shouldnt you be able to call out the WSO owner and ask for more proof. If their product is really what they claim it to be then they would have no problems providing proof and they would sell a lot more because of it.

I know people like you probably wouldn't like that because that means you couldn't sell ebooks like "Make $32523 by pressing one button! Only $7!"

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

nobody is trying to be judge jury and executioner. If someone smells a garbage WSO and knows something is fishy, why shouldnt you be able to call out the WSO owner and ask for more proof. If their product is really what they claim it to be then they would have no problems providing proof and they would sell a lot more because of it.

I know people like you probably wouldn't like that because that means you couldn't sell ebooks like "Make $32523 by pressing one button! Only $7!"

All "Proof" can be faked.

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

All "Proof" can be faked.

So you just give them the green light because all proof can be faked and there's no way of knowing either way?

Sounds like a lot of you old timers don't want any drastic changes because you make good money off the noobs who don't know any better.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

So you just give them the green light because all proof can be faked and there's no way of knowing either way?

Sounds like a lot of you old timers don't want any drastic changes because you make good money off the noobs who don't know any better.

Sounds to me like you are trying to smear my reputation, just so that you can win an argument. :rolleyes:

The mods around here work hard at bringing balance to the forum.

Sometimes the WSO vendors get banned.

Sometimes the question gets nuked, because it looks to a reasonable person to be slanted towards commentary rather than a question.

It has been my experience that the mods are pretty even-handed, and also that they are very patient with people who make unwarranted accusations.

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Sounds to me like you are trying to smear my reputation, just so that you can win an argument. :rolleyes:

The mods around here work hard at bringing balance to the forum.

Sometimes the WSO vendors get banned.

Sometimes the question gets nuked, because it looks to a reasonable person to be slanted towards commentary rather than a question.

It has been my experience that the mods are pretty even-handed, and also that they are very patient with people who make unwarranted accusations.

You just proved my point. You think I'm referring only to you with my comments. I am speaking broadly, but now your trying to say my comments are trying to smear your reputation????

I don't even know who or what your reputation is. This is about WSO's but now your trying to turn it around thinking I'm attacking you, probably so you can report me and make me disappear. This isn't a WSO it's not that easy.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Sounds like a lot of you old timers

Forgive me for thinking that this comment was directed "at me".

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

You just proved my point. You think I'm referring only to you with my comments. I am speaking broadly, but now your trying to say my comments are trying to smear your reputation????

I don't even know who or what your reputation is. This is about WSO's but now your trying to turn it around thinking I'm attacking you, probably so you can report me and make me disappear. This isn't a WSO it's not that easy.

Well, you did make a blanket accusation against "forum old-timers", and I am a "forum old-timer".

And no, I am not trying to disappear you.

I am simply trying to stop using blanket statements to describe people who have an opinion different than yours.

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

So you just give them the green light because all proof can be faked and there's no way of knowing either way? .

Bill never made that point btw.

Sounds like a lot of you old timers don't want any drastic changes because you make good money off the noobs who don't know any better.

Now you're making a wide-brush generalization that simply isn't true. A lot "old timers" don't post WSOs or rarely do.

The rules have stood the test of time and are there for a reason. That doesn't mean the human moderators don't mistakes, of course they do. If more people would report rule violations, it would be easier for all of us.

RoD

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

The rules have stood the test of time and are there for a reason.

RoD

The same rules that let the WSO forum be filled with 90% garbage? The WSO section needs more strict rules on what gets let in and what doesn't, But that will never happen because the forum owners get paid every time they let a WSO through. They won't post stricter rules because they don't want to police WSO and they won't let the people do it themselves otherwise they will be called trolls or get reported for trying to hurt a WSO.

These are the same rules that created the cesspool which is WSO. Where people can get away with selling lies.

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

The same rules that let the WSO forum be filled with 90% garbage? The WSO section needs more strict rules on what gets let in and what doesn't, But that will never happen because the forum owners get paid every time they let a WSO through. They won't post stricter rules because they don't want to police WSO and they won't let the people do it themselves otherwise they will be called trolls or get reported for trying to hurt a WSO.

These are the same rules that created the cesspool which is WSO. Where people can get away with selling lies.

Again, the rules have stood the test of time. There was a time when more rules were attempted, but it back-fired. As Paul Myers, one of the mods, had already stated on the previous page, there's a system in place and more people simply need to use it.

What you might think is a tougher rule, might create an insurmountable amount of extra work for the moderators; it also might give the benefits you think they will. More rules have been tried and the owner of this forum has stated in the past that he wants to keep the rules as simple as possible and give the mods some discretion. Then member-moderation was added which has helped a lot.

Clearly you have an issue with the WSO forum and that's fine, but you're making sweeping generalizations that are simply not true. Have you not read in the previous posts that people ARE allowed to ask legitimate questions? And that people who have purchased the product are allowed to give constructive feedback, even if it's negative?

In any event, I'm agreeing to disagree with you on many of your points. It's time we get back to the topic on hand and stop this bickering. Let's get back the main point or I'm going to report my own thread.

RoD

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

If nobody is there to challenge the garbage that gets posted there then whats the point?

If you have complaints about a specific offer that violates the rules, report it. Otherwise, you're just more noise in the system.

If someone asks a question the OP doesn't like or maybe he thinks a comment is hurting his WSO he can just get it reported and removed.

Wrong, O Mighty Moosebreath.

Legitimate pre-sales questions are not deleted. Legitimate means relevant, not accusatory, and not making unfounded assertions about the content. I get into arguments all the time with sellers who want things deleted and don't "grok" the grown-up response: Answer the bloody questions.

If their product sucks let them get called out on it and they can defend their product if they have the facts to back it up.

Let them get called out on it by someone who's in a position to know if it sucks or not: The customers. If you haven't seen it, you're just speculating from a position you've already defined as prejudiced.

If someone smells a garbage WSO and knows something is fishy, why shouldnt you be able to call out the WSO owner and ask for more proof.

You can, as long as you leave out the accusations. But proof, even when it's true, is meaningless. It only proves what someone else, with a different skillset, network, and work ethic accomplished. Has nothing to do with what the thing will do for you.

And too much of it is marginal to fake.

LOL, problem is nobody knows where the line is drawn when it comes to 'bias' questions. I've seen questions get deleted that were legitimate concerns. There is obviously a lot of 'bias' when it comes to who gets special treatment around here.

Really? Rule #1 forbids having that discussion publicly. I'd be happy to look at your proof of this via PM, though. Frankly, I think you're just making s__t up. Leaving aside your obvious bias, that is.

So you just give them the green light because all proof can be faked and there's no way of knowing either way?

Nope. I have repeatedly suggested that it's smart for people to completely ignore it. Income claims, income promises, screenshots... the whole thing.

Eliminating them requires a policy change. Not my call to make.

Sounds like a lot of you old timers don't want any drastic changes because you make good money off the noobs who don't know any better.

Which old-timers? Surely not me. I don't think I have sold anything in that section for nearly 2 years, and I don't do hype anyway. I also have no financial motive attached to anything that happens in the WSO section.

I'm on record as favoring completely forbidding any and all income claims and promises. Would you consider that a drastic change?

By the way... The majority of the offers that do prove to be actual problems are made by really new folks to the forum. Which is why I also recommend looking even more carefully at any offer from someone who's been a member less than a year, and who has less than 100 posts in the discussion areas.

But that will never happen because the forum owners get paid every time they let a WSO through.

Owner. Singular. And I don't recall Allen ever overriding a mod's decision on a WSO. If we close it, it stays closed. If we ban someone, they stay banned. His personal Rule #1 for the mods has always been, "The members come first."

And yeah... I've been here long enough to say "Always."

You have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. You don't have the faintest notion how many offers we close and how many sellers we ban. Or how many offers are required to be changed to fit the rules. Or how many times in a week we go to bat for the members when something isn't being handled in a timely fashion, or refunds are being delayed.

Of course, I could have stopped after the first four words in that last paragraph and been pretty close to right.

It's easy to shout self-righteously about all the Bad People, but it takes a bit more work to sift through the evidence and try to find the truth of the thing.

It's easy to come in here as an anonymous troll and make blanket accusations. It's a whole lot harder to be specific. Feel free to PM me with some specifics. Until then... Either learn to discuss things in a civil tone or go back under your bridge.

Paul

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you have complaints about a specific offer that violates the rules, report it. Otherwise, you're just more noise in the system.Wrong, O Mighty Moosebreath.

Oh so sweep it under the rug with a report and sooner or later the mods will get to it. I guess it makes more sense to deal with it that way instead of creating new rules that stop it from happening in the first place.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

And too much of it is marginal to fake.Really? Rule #1 forbids having that discussion publicly. I'd be happy to look at your proof of this via PM, though. Frankly, I think you're just making s__t up. Leaving aside your obvious bias, that is.Nope. I have repeatedly suggested that it's smart for people to completely ignore it. Income claims, income promises, screenshots... the whole thing.

More sweeping under the rug.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I don't think I have sold anything in that section for nearly 2 years, and I don't do hype anyway.

Then what I am saying obviously doesn't apply to you.....

Whats with everyone here so eager to jump out and say they aren't doing anything wrong? If you aren't selling crappy hype products then what I say doesn't apply to you. You are all jumping around like I work for the FTC and when I start asking questions your the first people to say "It's not me! I'm innocent". Obviously there's a problem going on if so many people are so eager to weigh in and try and make sure their names are clean.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I'm on record as favoring completely forbidding any and all income claims and promises. Would you consider that a drastic change?

That's a pointless change. If someones going to make claims they need the proof to back it up.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It's easy to shout self-righteously about all the Bad People, but it takes a bit more work to sift through the evidence and try to find the truth of the thing.

Well maybe somebody else would be willing to do your job to clean this place up if you don't feel like doing it.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It's easy to come in here as an anonymous troll and make blanket accusations. It's a whole lot harder to be specific. Feel free to PM me with some specifics. Until then... Either learn to discuss things in a civil tone or go back under your bridge.

How civil of you to call me a troll. I guess its easier to just say I'm a troll and move on.

By the way you could use some structure in your paragraphs. Your writing is all over the place with numerous statements included in a single paragraph. Took way longer than it should have trying to figure out what you were referring to in certain spots.

Oh and btw you can go ahead and delete this post like you did my other ones. AKA sweep me under the rug.

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Cali16 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

How civil of you to call me a troll. I guess its easier to just say I'm a troll and move on.

"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....."

Btw, Paul's being very tolerant of your noxious posts - he's notorious for giving people LOTS of rope...

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

By the way you could use some structure in your paragraphs. Your writing is all over the place...

You're really stooping low to criticize Paul's writing, lol!
Nothing like grasping at straws in a lame attempt to make yourself feel superior.... :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Oh and btw you can go ahead and delete this post like you did my other ones. AKA sweep me under the rug.

Since you are clearly so dissatisfied with this forum and the mods, WHY exactly are you still here........?? There are plenty of other forums for you to infest that I'm sure would be much more to your liking...
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Karen Blundell 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Sounds like a lot of you old timers don't want any drastic changes because you make good money off the noobs who don't know any better.

I'm an old-timer, and I resent that comment. Some of us old-timers don't even market WSO's in the make money online niche. We do, however, take great pains to make sure we have a vibrant community, without having to put up with forum trolls, spammers, and haters who want to just ruin the great community we have here.

Peace out...
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sal64 12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

All "Proof" can be faked.

Yes, Bill... and so too can orgasms.

And some of us want to believe so badly that we accept them as being real.

Sal
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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

nobody is trying to be judge jury and executioner. If someone smells a garbage WSO and knows something is fishy, why shouldnt you be able to call out the WSO owner and ask for more proof. If their product is really what they claim it to be then they would have no problems providing proof and they would sell a lot more because of it.

I know people like you probably wouldn't like that because that means you couldn't sell ebooks like "Make $32523 by pressing one button! Only $7!"

There are ways to handle a legitimate concern and you'd better be able to back it up with more than just a gut feeling. You contact a mod privately and tell him your concerns. I've done this several times and the listings were shut down after the mod got the info he needed to make a determination.

I know people like you probably wouldn't like that because that means you couldn't sell ebooks like "Make $32523 by pressing one button! Only $7!"

Screw You. I've never created an ebook that make unfounded income claims and this is exactly why people like you shouldn't be allowed to trash WSOs. You make unfounded claims. I sell websites, domains and a plugin here and there.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

This is the exact reason why people get away with selling garbage in WSO's. If nobody is there to challenge the garbage that gets posted there then whats the point? If someone asks a question the OP doesn't like or maybe he thinks a comment is hurting his WSO he can just get it reported and removed. That lets people get away with selling garbage WSO's. If their product sucks let them get called out on it and they can defend their product if they have the facts to back it up.

The WSO rules are a joke right now.

Your comments are the joke. Yes, I am calling YOU out... :rolleyes:

What you just said bears little resemblance to the truth...

People are entitled to ask questions, so long as those questions are not baited to show a bias against the product.

Paul, the moderator who is often tasked with making this call, just said in this thread:

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Regarding offers that do raise some concerns, people are allowed to ask legitimate questions about the offer.

Rod,[chuckle] You'd be amazed how many times I tell sellers that, and they argue with me. Some of these guys seems to think they can just report anything that isn't all sunshine and daisies and we'll delete it. When you tell them the proper response to legitimate questions is to give them a straight answer, a few of them absolutely freak out.

It tells me a lot about who we're dealing with. But then, the ones who know that answering is the right way to handle it never report them anyway, unless it really is an extreme case of trolling.

Paul

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Your comments are the joke. Yes, I am calling YOU out... :rolleyes:

What you just said bears little resemblance to the truth...

People are entitled to ask questions, so long as those questions are not baited to show a bias against the product.

Paul, the moderator who is often tasked with making this call, just said in this thread:

LOL, problem is nobody knows where the line is drawn when it comes to 'bias' questions. I've seen questions get deleted that were legitimate concerns. There is obviously a lot of 'bias' when it comes to who gets special treatment around here.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

LOL, problem is nobody knows where the line is drawn when it comes to 'bias' questions. I've seen questions get deleted that were legitimate concerns. There is obviously a lot of 'bias' when it comes to who gets special treatment around here.

I have seen it go both ways.

I've seen questions get deleted that were legitimate concerns (but not so often) and "questions" deleted that were little more than biased rants.

I have also seen WSO's that were legitimate get toasted by biased comments in the thread, and WSO's get toasted that stink like my neighbor's kids.

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cjreynolds

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I have seen it go both ways.

I've seen questions get deleted that were legitimate concerns (but not so often) and "questions" deleted that were little more than biased rants.

I have also seen WSO's that were legitimate get toasted by biased comments in the thread, and WSO's get toasted that stink like my neighbor's kids.

I RESENT THAT!!!! I'm sendin' my dog over to your flowerbeds!!

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Thaddaeus T. Hogg

12 years ago

All "Proof" can be faked.

OH NO MONSEWER... that is a completely false statement. Everclear is just about 190 proof but that there is just a drop in the bucket of ole Thad's "A Small Sip Kills Influenza Coughs and Keratosis" Why the alcohol content of my... ummm... libido enhancer is about as easy to measure as the wind speed of a category five tornadie! In other words, tain't gonna happen!

Organisms can be faked! Often imitated never replicated, Ole Thad's thirst-quencher just cain't be faked!

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cjreynolds

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Thaddaeus T. Hogg

All "Proof" can be faked.

OH NO MONSEWER... that is a completely false statement. Everclear is just about 190 proof but that there is just a drop in the bucket of ole Thad's "A Small Sip Kills Influenza Coughs and Keratosis" Why the alcohol content of my... ummm... libido enhancer is about as easy to measure as the wind speed of a category five tornadie! In other words, tain't gonna happen!

Organisms can be faked! Often imitated never replicated, Ole Thad's thirst-quencher just cain't be faked!

I agree with Thaddaeus (I think....) - maybe "proof" can be faked, but usually not well enough to fool an expert. I've been doing graphics work for many years (graphic design, photoshop, photo retouching...) and I would have a really hard time producing fake screenshots that could fool a real expert. You may fool the untrained eye, but fooling someone who's been at this awhile is a lot harder.

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DoubleOhDave

12 years ago

I vowed I wouldn't get into another argument over WSo's again but this thread has intrigued me.

I used to buy any WSO that promised I'd XXXX (whatever) but learned the hard way that all claims are subjective and that as a WSO buyer the best advice you can follow is to buy only within the niche you operate within (or those WSOs that may help you in a way that all of us need such as backlinks, promotion etc).

Since I started following that creed - and it's one I picked up from someone else here, sorry I can't remember who but I owe them a debt of gratitude - I have bought less WSOs and got more value from them.

I have also given up on leaving feedback for WSOs that have been outright cases of marketing the WSO as a money earner rather than a genuine benefit to the buyer.. it's just not worth it in the end and people will cop on and ask for a refund if that's the case.

One other thing I read from a poster (again - sorry, I don't remember who but the advice is just as good as my last example) is that not everyone may be as knowledgeable as you and some WSOs are there to help those people..

OKAY I just remembered where I heard the good advice and it's a thread I started relevant to this one: "How do you feel?"

So, yes I think people should bear those points in mind when it comes to buying WSOs and leaving feedback.

Another matter altogether is - should we be allowed report WSO threads where the WSO creator has made a 5 page pdf file into a 20 page one with large font and images and claims that go against the T&Cs of sites they claim to use to make thousands per month? Then they privately ask for *constructive* criticism to be removed with the promise of a refund and nothing more need be said?

I say YES.

But that doesn't mean bashing someone who has put a lot of work into an info product just because you already know the method involved. Who can know what others want or need? Telepathy?

And if you wanna bash them - show me yours and I'll show you mine! (info products that is - don't wanna get banned for lewd behaviour :p)

PS - I screwed up doing some behind the scenes work on my blog and lost several weeks of hard work - haven't changed my link here - so obviously I am not posting to get attention to a redundant link LOL!

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Cali16

12 years ago

Originally Posted by DoubleOhDave

Should we be allowed report WSO threads where the WSO creator has made a 5 page pdf file into a 20 page one with large font and images and claims that go against the T&Cs of sites they claim to use to make thousands per month? Then they privately ask for *constructive* criticism to be removed with the promise of a refund and nothing more need be said?

By all means, please do report those. The mods can then investigate it and determine if the WSO should be closed. That helps protect potential buyers.

Also, I would definitely report someone who sends a pm to a buyer to remove constructive criticism. Constructive criticism is important in a WSO thread (emphasis on "constructive") because it helps others make more informed buying decisions. A WSO seller should not be trying to bribe you to remove it. If they do, report it to the mods.

Smart WSO sellers take constructive criticism and either make changes in the WSO (I've seen this happen several times, for example the seller updates the WSO to improve it based on the criticism), or they learn from it and don't make the same mistake in future WSOs or other products.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by DoubleOhDave

Another matter altogether is - should we be allowed report WSO threads where the WSO creator has made a 5 page pdf file into a 20 page one with large font and images and claims that go against the T&Cs of sites they claim to use to make thousands per month? Then they privately ask for *constructive* criticism to be removed with the promise of a refund and nothing more need be said?

I say YES.

I have reported WSO's that require you to violate someone's TOS to be effective.

So, I'd also say, "Yes, you can report them to the mods, and the mods will decide if the content of the WSO violates the rules of the forum."

I have reported a few WSO's that ended up closed, and occasionally the vendor banned.

Please note that I reported the WSO's, using the button

.

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Cali16 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Thaddaeus T. Hogg

OH NO MONSEWER...

I took French in college; definitely have to remember this one!

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Wrong, O Mighty Moosebreath.

LOL, Paul, you have such a way with words!

(Nothing like a redneck and a hillbilly to keep things fun!)

Sorry, Rod, not trying to derail your thread... I report lots of spammers and trolls and will definitely continue doing so!
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Thaddaeus T. Hogg 12 years ago

Now what I cain't figure out is why some of you folks wanna go arguin with people who ought to be ignored! See, I ain't the smartest fellar around by any means BUT I do have a small bit of common sense... VERY small but it is there somewhere!

You see, there are folks what come in here and they just want to get things riled up and agitated. They say and do things so they can get attention. Their post counts are lower than a snake's belly and they ain't got no clue what a "thank you" is cause they ain't hardly got none!

I make it a point to ignore them folks (well, unless I am feelin REALLY cantankerous) and I know they will eventually go away! They ain't worth the energy it takes to take a pee!

Those folks are just like skeeters. They buzz all around you and just keep hanging around. I just ignore em until they bite me and THEN "SPLAT"... I hit em right in the eyeball with a big ole wad of tabacky juice. What a waste of tabacky juice!
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zapseo

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

LOL, problem is nobody knows where the line is drawn when it comes to 'bias' questions. I've seen questions get deleted that were legitimate concerns. There is obviously a lot of 'bias' when it comes to who gets special treatment around here.

Me too. That's because the person asking it asked it in 5 different posts.

Your comment shows a bias not unlike some trolls.

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Karen Blundell

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

This is the exact reason why people get away with selling garbage in WSO's. If nobody is there to challenge the garbage that gets posted there then whats the point? If someone asks a question the OP doesn't like or maybe he thinks a comment is hurting his WSO he can just get it reported and removed. That lets people get away with selling garbage WSO's. If their product sucks let them get called out on it and they can defend their product if they have the facts to back it up.

The WSO rules are a joke right now.

I agree there are a lot of dubious WSO's. If you see any WSO's that you know for a fact are illegal, just report them.

But you can't just say a WSO is "crap" if you don't have the facts to back it up.

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Isaiah Jackson

12 years ago

If someone bought the product leave a review on the product and not the product creator. If you purchased the product and feel as if the product is not good to you then say so... don't go crazy and start bashing the product creator with words like "you should NEVER make another product again, or get out of IM while you can" yeah I've heard the above listed and sometimes from those who have way more experience than me did it bother me a little bit did I reply no because out of all the negative there is always something positive to come out of it.

If someone is always posting something negative, you can be sure that they will do it again and again its a pattern they get attention this way.

As a troll the easiest way to feel important or to still the spotlight is to react negatively so that is what they do.

won't pay them any mind just report and move on

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Isaiah Jackson

12 years ago

Seems like you bought some bad WSO's in my opinion of course I could be wrong in that assumption and would gladly admit it.

You could be a browser of the WSO section of the forum and just be reading the sales copy for WSOs either way it doesn't matter.

Proof can be faked we all know that but how many of us will actually take the time to do it. I can tell you right now that these "old timers" you mentioned would never do anything like that.

Imposing tougher rules to make you happy okay cool do that, are you launching a WSO?

Have you ever launched a WSO?

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

I admire your passion folks, but enough with the name-calling, let's keep it civil please.

RoD

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by timpears

Sorry Rod, not my job. I ain't got time to deal with that. Nore do I think I have the capability to know who has or hasn't bought or who is asking a legitimate question.

No worries. It's completely optional, I never stated it was mandatory (not that anyone would listen to that anyway. lol).

Just trying to make people aware that the report post button is there and available. There are those of us that do have the time or want to make the time. That's who this post was really for.

I can tell you this much, it's pretty easy to, at the very least, to spot those who have NOT purchased the product when all they do is make a blanket statement. It's also easy to spot when someone is purposely trying to harm someone's WSO, so I don't buy your reasoning about people asking legitimate questions. It's common sense in most cases.

RoD

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Oh I ain't dumb enough to buy any MMO WSO's.

Just so that I have things straight...

People who do buy MMO WSO's are "dumb"?

And since you are ranting in this thread, I suppose you feel it to be your obligation to protect "dumb people" from themselves and from the people who sell them stuff?

If there are "dumb people" in your niche too, should we hire someone to protect them from you when you try to sell them something? :p

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

I've never launched a WSO because I don't need to pray on noobs, telling them I'm some amazing guru who will show you his secret trick to $500 a day for only $17.

Again, just so that I understand what you are trying to say...

Are you saying that "anyone" who sells products to newbies is preying on their ignorance?

Like Suzanne, I have seen mostly good products in the WSO sub-forum, to the tune of about 80% of what I buy...

I wait until after I see a product before I judge its worth and value to the community. And most products I buy are good products.

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Larkrise

12 years ago

Geniune trolls are unhappy people whose spiteful behavior reflects their 'inner world' - sadly they will all end up with hideous diseases as their bodies cannot generate quality cells whilst their focus is on destruction!

This is my professional and theraputic voice - not on this occasion my IM voice

My IM voice says

chuck em out!

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paul nicholls

12 years ago

this happened to me rod a few weeks on my last wso

some guy left a comment in my wso thread that had a very low post count and was very new to the forum

he was running on about how bad his life was and that none of the products in that section would ever work or bring him money

he didnt really make much sense and no he didnt buy the product either

after he has left his comment he probably went off to finish his bottle of whiskey lol

you do get some strange ones

his comment was removed in the end though

paul

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Thaddaeus T. Hogg

12 years ago

You have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. You don't have the faintest notion how many offers we close and how many sellers we ban. Or how many offers are required to be changed to fit the rules. Or how many times in a week we go to bat for the members when something isn't being handled in a timely fashion, or refunds are being delayed.

Of course, I could have stopped after the first four words in that last paragraph and been pretty close to right.

It's easy to shout self-righteously about all the Bad People, but it takes a bit more work to sift through the evidence and try to find the truth of the thing.

It's easy to come in here as an anonymous troll and make blanket accusations. It's a whole lot harder to be specific. Feel free to PM me with some specifics. Until then... Either learn to discuss things in a civil tone or go back under your bridge.

Paul

Dang Paul!!! Like I said afore, when I get a bit annoyed I spit a bit of tabacky juice... BUT YOU... YOU take the little skeeters and castrate em right below the chin! Reminds me of the joke about why folks don't use mothballs any more... it's cause it's too dang hard to get their little legs apart!

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sal64

12 years ago

Trolling trolling trolling

Keep those questions rolling

Trolling trolling trolling

Kick them out Rawhide!

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Lynn,

For sure, I know what you mean. And there are quite a few of them that seem to hang around and pull this crap repeatedly.

Report them, please.

A member posted publicly in a WSO thread the other day, asserting that the seller was a scammer and a fraud. Her proof? She said that three of the accounts in the thread were duplicates, all run by the seller and all posting from the same country and the same IP. I knew she had no way to know that, but I checked anyway. I could find no connection between the accounts. One was in India (the seller's), one was in Europe, and one was in Australia.

I asked her what other evidence she had to support her assertions. Her reply was useless. No new information. Just her unfounded certainty.

Looked at the rest of her posts, and they were similarly negative, with no basis, and without having purchased any of the products she claimed were so awful.

Nuked her.

You don't get to call people frauds publicly here without some evidence to back it up. Say what you think when it's a report to the mods and is private, but don't step over that line in public.

People need to learn the difference between "I don't like this" and "This is a scam."

Paul

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Tina Golden 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

How civil of you to call me a troll.

It's a lot more civil than the words some of us are thinking.
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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Oh so sweep it under the rug with a report and sooner or later the mods will get to it. I guess it makes more sense to deal with it that way instead of creating new rules that stop it from happening in the first place.

Wanna back that up with something specific?

The mods don't take our time about getting to things. It's rare for a report to go more than a few hours without being addressed, much less days. The fact that we don't announce every decision doesn't mean they're not being made.

Then what I am saying obviously doesn't apply to you.....

I am just about as "old-timer" as it gets here. And I think it's fair to say I've got more time into the maintenance of this forum than most people. I am also a moderator explaining why the rules are what they are. So yeah... I will take those attacks as being directed toward me. Not personally, of course, but in my direction as much as anyone's.

This is a typical response from a troll tossing generic criticisms around. Ask them for specifics, and you get... [blank].

Be specific, or be useless. Your choice.

That's a pointless change.

That comment demonstrates, better than anything we could have said, your lack of understanding of how the WSO section works.

Well maybe somebody else would be willing to do your job to clean this place up if you don't feel like doing it.

Not "job." A function I choose to fulfill. And we're back to you having absolutely no real knowledge of what any of the mods do or don't do about issues that are reported here. Just another baseless assertion.

I wasn't complaining, Sherlock. I was pointing out the difference between ranting pointlessly and actually doing the thing in a responsible way.

Oh and btw you can go ahead and delete this post like you did my other ones. AKA sweep me under the rug.

Wow. Serious critical thinking skills in operation there. If I were trying to sweep you under the rug, genius, I wouldn't be responding to you.

Got some useful suggestions for rules changes, or are you gonna blank on that, too?

Paul

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Got some useful suggestions for rules changes

Doesn't matter. I can see that the sheep in this forum don't care. They just nod their heads because that's all they can do. Brainless zombies who sit idly by and don't dare question the system.

And you wonder why some of you people are still sitting on here year after year not making any money, yet you think your some expert because you have over 5,000 posts on the warrior forums. Give me a break.

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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Doesn't matter. I can see that the sheep in this forum don't care. They just nod their heads because that's all they can do. Brainless zombies who sit idly by and don't dare question the system.

And you wonder why some of you people are still sitting on here year after year not making any money, yet you think your some expert because you have over 5,000 posts on the warrior forums. Give me a break.

LOL

So you have an alternative motive for participating in this thread?

Those forum old-timers frequently question the system and make suggestions for changes. Sometimes those changes are implemented.

You have been given the opportunity to contribute, and you continue to cast aspersions at others... So much for cleaning up the place, eh?

As far as those who are not making any money... Whose responsibility is it to make sure someone makes money? I am personally responsible for my successes and failures... Who is responsible for yours?

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salegurus

12 years ago

Prime example of what needs to be fixed.
How this can be approved...

[CLOSE] $15,000/month GUARANTEED. 1on1 COACHING. SPECIAL PRICE!

I see it's now been closed, don't know why but how can you guarantee that kind of monthly income?

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Theo,

I see it's now been closed, don't know why but how can you guarantee that kind of monthly income?

I ask myself those kinds of questions every day...

Like I said in another thread today... "The mods like it" isn't part of the rules, or there'd be NO income claims or promises in any ad, anywhere on this forum.

Paul
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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by salegurus

Prime example of what needs to be fixed.
How this can be approved...

[CLOSE] $15,000/month GUARANTEED. 1on1 COACHING. SPECIAL PRICE!

I see it's now been closed, don't know why but how can you guarantee that kind of monthly income?

Not only do some/most/all (I don't know how many) of the mods not like impossible income claims, but many of the members here don't as well.

In many threads where newbies are asking if this is feasible or possible, they are told NO by most of the "old timers". They are told not to believe or give credence to unfounded income claims or other impossible sounding claims.

I've seen people who get good advice and then still get taken in by these claims. Dreamers will dream no matter what and they will ignore that nagging little question ... could this really be possible ... over and over again.

Ads are everywhere and much of what is in advertising cannot be believed. There's a new TV ad for some foreign berry that will rid your body of all inflammation ... sure to be the next FTC takedown.

When you go to the grocery store, do you pick bruised, rotten fruit or the freshest fruit. Never have I seen anywhere else that people throw caution and common sense out of the equation when making decisions about buying something, but they want to believe all that hype. They'll give this one a shot and then the next one that comes along.

Trolling the forum and the WSOs because you're on a mission to rid the marketplace of what you perceive to be scams isn't really going to work for all the reasons that have been stated over and over.

People who paint all marketers with the same brush and make sweeping general statements aren't providing a solution. They're just ranting. Marketers who take the time to try to educate newbies make more of an impact on those who will listen than a hundred of your big mouth blow hards with nothing but criticism.

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MikeTucker

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Marketers who take the time to try to educate newbies make more of an impact on those who will listen than a hundred of your big mouth blow hards with nothing but criticism.

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

LOL

So you have an alternative motive for participating in this thread?

Those forum old-timers frequently question the system and make suggestions for changes. Sometimes those changes are implemented.

You have been given the opportunity to contribute, and you continue to cast aspersions at others... So much for cleaning up the place, eh?

As far as those who are not making any money... Whose responsibility is it to make sure someone makes money? I am personally responsible for my successes and failures... Who is responsible for yours?

I guess you're blind. What do you think I've been suggesting this whole time? Oh yea I was suggesting that people provide proof to back up claims and make it a rule.

Originally Posted by tpw

As far as those who are not making any money... Whose responsibility is it to make sure someone makes money? I am personally responsible for my successes and failures... Who is responsible for yours?

What does this statement have to do with the price of beans in mexico?

I don't care if you make money or not. I am pointing out all 'old timers' who probably don't even know what twitter is, trying to be authority figures because they have over 5,000 posts on WF. They chime in with there little senseless comment jumping on the troll hating bandwagon because it's monkey see monkey do. Yet the only thing they are experts in is wasting time on WF talking about nothing important until it's time to go to bingo.

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tpw 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

I guess you're blind.

My mother told me that would happen...

I didn't believe her...

I guess that means that my mom was ALWAYS right.
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Cali16

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Oh yea I was suggesting that people provide proof to back up claims and make it a rule.

"Suggesting"? Hmmmmm, sounded more like "demanding" to me... :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

I am pointing out all 'old timers' who probably don't even know what twitter is, trying to be authority figures because they have over 5,000 posts on WF. They chime in with there little senseless comment jumping on the troll hating bandwagon because it's monkey see monkey do. Yet the only thing they are experts in is wasting time on WF talking about nothing important until it's time to go to bingo.

I've yet to see one person on this forum with anywhere near 5000 posts who isn't extremely knowledgeable about Internet Marketing and an excellent contributor to this forum. But hey, if you can pm one of us any exceptions to that, by all means, please do. After all, you're the one making all the noise about "backing up your claims"...

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

I've yet to see one person on this forum with anywhere near 5000 posts who isn't extremely knowledgeable about Internet Marketing and an excellent contributor to this forum. But hey, if you can show us any exceptions to that, by all means, please do. After all, you're the one making all the noise about "backing up your claims"...

Nope sorry can't do that. It isn't allowed here duh. :rolleyes:

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Nope sorry can't do that. It isn't allowed here duh. :rolleyes:

Nope. But you can PM me with it. That's allowed, since I'm asking as a moderator.

Paul

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Nope. But you can PM me with it. That's allowed, since I'm asking as a moderator.

Paul

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

Don't laugh too hard, Joe. It's not like there aren't plenty of people here who try to teach what they don't know. I'm just curious about the group with 5k+ posts. I can't think of any of them who do that, at least on marketing topics.

Doesn't mean they don't exist. Just that I can't think of any at the moment.

Paul
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tpw 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Nope. But you can PM me with it. That's allowed, since I'm asking as a moderator.

Paul

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

Nope, it won't be for us. :p

If he takes Paul up on it, the two of them will exchange several PM's, and Paul is too classy to tell us what happened.

The only way it will continue to provide amusement for us is if he rejects Paul's invitation and carries on in this thread.
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- Joseph Robinson Banned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  The only way it will continue to provide amusement for us is if he rejects Paul's invitation and carries on in this thread.
  
  Is it wrong if this is what I was expecting to go down ?
  
  I know that out of 481k members there is bound to be at least someone who hit 5k and doesn't really know what they are talking about. I kind of went with my assumption that he wouldn't back it up because he seems more hung up on the "old timers" bit than the arbitrary number, and of the people that I relegate to that group none of them are inept. Heck, a few of them might even know what Twitter is after all :p.
  
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Cali16

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Cali,

You're inviting him to break Rule #1.

Oops! That wasn't my intent.

(I've edited that post.)

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Bill,

I wouldn't name names, but if he points me to one about whom I agree, I'd come back and say, "Yep. He wasn't kidding."

Of course, he made it a bit of a general statement, which wouldn't be supported by a single example. Still, I'd give him credit for being right if he's right.

The thing that bothers me about this sort of running badmouthing - of almost anything - is that the person with the agenda could probably make a positive contribution if they weren't so attached to proving a problem exists and were more focused on solving it.

No-one claims there aren't any problems. The only debate is about how big they are and how can they be reduced in scope.

Paul

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Just so the suggestion gets addressed, rather than looking like it's being "swept under the rug"...

The problem with "proving" claims is simple, and would be obvious to anyone looking more than 10 minutes into the future: It is beyond the ability of anyone in this forum to verify most "proof."

That's why I suggest people simply ignore it. There's no way I know of to be sure any of it isn't faked, at least with the levels of access and authority the mods and members here have.

Paul
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  Alison,
  
  Ignore them, don't engage them.
  
  Sometimes they come up with helpful suggestions. Other times, they serve as useful examples with which you can demonstrate the fallacies of various common arguments.
  
  You don't always know which is which right away.
  
  Paul
  
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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The thing that bothers me about this sort of running badmouthing - of almost anything - is that the person with the agenda could probably make a positive contribution if they weren't so attached to proving a problem exists and were more focused on solving it.

No-one claims there aren't any problems. The only debate is about how big they are and how can they be reduced in scope.

I agree.

I frequently tell my kids that they have a choice... They can be part of the solution or part of the problem, and I will deal with them accordingly...

Of course, at 9yo and 12yo, they probably don't quite grasp what I am telling them just yet, but one day it will hit them like a ton of bricks...

I knew this couple one time. They were my neighbors in a 4-apt building.

I started noticing that it seemed like I was somehow losing gasoline from my car.

The first few times, I didn't think much of it. I just thought I was losing my sanity.

I finally took the car to the shop and the mechanics were unable to locate a leak.

Then I filled up one night on the way home.

The next morning, I had half a tank.

You all know where I am going...

I figured out where my gasoline was going.

Well, I got a dog...

One night I was sitting in the living room with the lights off and the curtains cracked.

She went downstairs and got in the car.

She backed out of the driveway, and when her headlights hit my front window, she paused and watched my house... Then she slowly drove away and flashed her headlights as she drove by the house.

Then I heard him coming down the wood staircase.

I let him sneak around the back of the building and go to my car. I waited until I could see him slip the hose in my gas tank and start sucking...

Then I cracked the front door of the house, and let the dog take aim!!

LOL

The dog barked and I heard him scream, then I heard him hoofing it up the staircase back to his apartment. He was on an all-out tear, with my dog snipping at his heels...

I went outside and collected his hose and bucket.

The next afternoon, I knocked on his door to let him know that I was keeping his hose and bucket as a partial payment towards what he owed me for gasoline.

My gasoline tank was never drained again after that.

I told my buddy later that if my neighbor and his wife would invest their energy into doing something productive instead of stealing a few dollars at a time from my gas tank, the effort and teamwork they exhibited stealing gas from my tank could have potentially had made them rich.

:p

Some people never get it... :rolleyes:

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Bill,

Then I cracked the front door of the house, and let the dog take aim!!

[chuckle] That's how you fix a problem. Proactive solutions are always the best.

Paul
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Bill Farnham 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Nope. But you can PM me with it. That's allowed, since I'm asking as a moderator.

Paul,

Asking someone with 29 posts to PM you either exhibits a mod perk or a mean streak.

Or a faulty memory...

~Bill

I'll consider myself told...
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  Bill,
  
  Asking someone with 29 posts to PM you either exhibits a mod perk or a mean streak.
  
  Or a faulty memory...
  
  I don't know that I'd call it a "perk." Still, new members can PM the mods, even if they haven't got the 50 posts it would take to PM someone else.
  
  I'll consider myself told...
  
  And appropriately so, it would seem.
  
  Paul
  
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- Joseph Robinson Banned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham
  
  I'll consider myself told...
  
  You're setting a baaad precedent here. Soon enough, we'll all be expected to tell ourselves .
  
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  2 replies
  
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  Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  You're setting a baaad precedent here. Soon enough, we'll all be expected to tell ourselves .
  
  Well, that would save me an awful lot of time...
  
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  tpw 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Joe Robinson
  
  You're setting a baaad precedent here. Soon enough, we'll all be expected to tell ourselves .
  
  The problem is that those of you, who should be telling yourself, don't listen to anyone.
  
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  Joseph Robinson Banned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Well, that would save me an awful lot of time...
  
  Fine. I'm told. I'm going to go be silly in OT
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  The problem is that those of you, who should be telling yourself, don't listen to anyone.
  
  Hm? What? I didn't hear what you said :p.
  
  Thanks
  
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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Cali,

You're inviting him to break Rule #1. Of course, he'd ignore the whole "false claims" angle and assert that Rule #1 is just there to cover things up. Because that's the argument he wants to make.

I can tell you, though, that there are people here with 5000+ posts whose marketing experience is minimal. But then, they're usually programmers or graphic designers and the like, and don't claim to have extensive marketing skills.

Paul
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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

I don't care if you make money or not. I am pointing out all 'old timers' who probably don't even know what twitter is, trying to be authority figures because they have over 5,000 posts on WF. They chime in with there little senseless comment jumping on the troll hating bandwagon because it's monkey see monkey do. Yet the only thing they are experts in is wasting time on WF talking about nothing important until it's time to go to bingo.

We must be hanging out on different Warrior Forums my dude. I'm still looking for an inept person to reach the suddenly all important (according to you) 5,000 post mark.

I guess we just see what we expect to see though...

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

Doesn't matter. I can see that the sheep in this forum don't care. They just nod their heads because that's all they can do. Brainless zombies who sit idly by and don't dare question the system.

And you wonder why some of you people are still sitting on here year after year not making any money, yet you think your some expert because you have over 5,000 posts on the warrior forums.

Give me a break.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Best suggestion yet in this thread

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Lynn,Report them, please.

A member posted publicly in a WSO thread the other day, asserting that the seller was a scammer and a fraud. Her proof? She said that three of the accounts in the thread were duplicates, all run by the seller and all posting from the same country and the same IP. I knew she had no way to know that, but I checked anyway. I could find no connection between the accounts. One was in India (the seller's), one was in Europe, and one was in Australia.

I asked her what other evidence she had to support her assertions. Her reply was useless. No new information. Just her unfounded certainty.

Looked at the rest of her posts, and they were similarly negative, with no basis, and without having purchased any of the products she claimed were so awful.

Nuked her.

You don't get to call people frauds publicly here without some evidence to back it up. Say what you think when it's a report to the mods and is private, but don't step over that line in public.

People need to learn the difference between "I don't like this" and "This is a scam."

Paul

This brings up a question for me that I don't think I've seen asked when this example comes up. What happens to the seller that has been wrongly accused? Do they perhaps get to have the thread nuked and relaunched...or are they pretty much stuck with what they have at that point?

Thanks
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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

This brings up a question for me that I don't think I've seen asked when this example comes up. What happens to the seller that has been wrongly accused? Do they perhaps get to have the thread nuked and relaunched...or are they pretty much stuck with what they have at that point?

My experience has been that the mods go "clean" the thread, and remove all traces of the person that got nuked and any post addressing the person specifically.

They are like the Men In Black who come clean people's memories of those dratted UFO sightings.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Joe,

This brings up a question for me that I don't think I've seen asked when this example comes up. What happens to the seller that has been wrongly accused? Do they perhaps get to have the thread nuked and relaunched...or are they pretty much stuck with what they have at that point?

Combination answer. First, we try to find the "least harm" solution. Second, a certain amount of that discretion is left to the seller. In this case, the seller thanked me for publicly dealing with it. If he'd asked for all those posts to be deleted, I'd have done that. But that leaves some folks wondering if there wasn't something to the claims, which is a stink that can hang around for a long time.

This ended it, right there on the spot.

Mind you, I didn't endorse the product or the seller. Just dealt with a specific set of clearly bogus accusations.

Paul

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Doesn't matter. I can see that the sheep in this forum don't care. They just nod their heads because that's all they can do. Brainless zombies who sit idly by and don't dare question the system.

More evidence of absence. Of clue, that is.

Dude, I question the system every day, and I am not the only one. When someone offers a workable suggestion that helps reduce a problem, I lobby for it, if it's not something we can just do without policy changes. That's one of the reasons I engage in these threads, rather than just nuking them. Most of the time they end up turning into useless arguments. Every once in a great while, though, they yield Something That Works.

I don't believe you HAVE specific useful suggestions. The more you talk, the more convinced I become that you're just a sock puppet.

Paul

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sal64

12 years ago

Flogging a dead horse, me thinks.

Whilst it ain't perfect, there's no reason to simply come on here and smear members who are decent, hard working folk.

And to paint everyone with the same brush is just stupid and rude. I wonder how a certain member copes with back pain given the size of that chip they carry around.

I have said it before and I'll say it again...

It's a privately owned forum. The owner has worked his ass off to make it what it is. He is entitled to make every penny he makes because for every dollar Allen makes, there's at least one freeloading sponge on here trying to exploit others for personal gains.

Is it perfect? No way.

Don't like it? Fack off and start your own internet utopia.

Meanwhile, millions are living in poverty and squalor.

Nuff said.

sal

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Fadiz

12 years ago

This might help

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cjreynolds 12 years ago

Nah, just use WART REMOVER!

Originally Posted by Fadiz

This might help
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I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...
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AlisonTaylor

12 years ago

This is just what happens in any form of commerce. You can have 1000 people that love you and what you put out but you will always at least 1-10 turds to spoil the party.

Ignore them, don't engage them . Ity's their biggest weakness ======> ATTENTION

don't give it to them

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celente

12 years ago

comon now, seriously Trolls, warrior forum....

Trolls in the warrior forum.... surely not *insert weird smile here*

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by celente

comon now, seriously Trolls, warrior forum....

Trolls in the warrior forum.... surely not *insert weird smile here*

This revelation is so original and important I'm glad your the first person to share this with us. It can only get better by posting again, but this time with an image.

Thanks

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MikeTucker

12 years ago

[DELETED]

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TheSalesBooster

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

This image is very insulting. I had to report you.

Thanks
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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

This revelation is so original and important I'm glad your the first person to share this with us. It can only get better by posting again, but this time with an image.

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

This image is very insulting. I had to report you.

LOL

When you insult someone, it is not trolling.

When someone insults you, it is?

If you were trying to be funny, you forgot the tongue-in-cheek smiley. :p

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MikeTucker 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

This image is very insulting. I had to report you.

My apologies, Kiddo... I didn't realize you
were the person that was called
a "troll" earlier and I was only posting
what I thought was an amusing
picture in a thread about trolls.

I certainly didn't mean to direct the
picture at you, and in hindsight I
can see why it might have seemed
as if I did. Note that I only quoted
you to play off your sarcasm with
something I thought was funny.

I would like to point out that I actually
got the idea of the picture from
post #28 in this very thread.

Perhaps in time you will see some
of my other posts, and note that
I never directly insult anyone and
have actually come to the defense
of a few others.

Maybe you will also develop skin that
is a little bit thicker... After all,
this is the Warrior forum and it
is about sales & marketing. Life
takes endurance, and that includes
the need to be able to take a hit,
even if it wasn't actually aimed at you.

To make sure that I'm communicating
clearly, that is not meant to insult
you nor belittle you in any way.
It is just advice that, after going back
and looking at who posted what in
this thread, I think you need to hear.

Good luck in whatever you choose
to do with yourself after this.
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- tpw 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by cjreynolds
  
  We're not drooling on ourselves... (at least I'm not - yet)
  
  I live in a college town... I usually do when I go out, but never do when I am at home...
  
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- zapseo 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster
  
  That explains a lot.
  Either you are a REALLY slow reader, or lazy, or ... ?
  That should take ... what? Less than 60 seconds to have read?
  
  Edited to Add:
  Okay -- that shows how utterly much time I've read catching up on this (apparently dead to everyone but me now) thread. LOL.
  
  Let's see -- only 342 more posts to 5000!!! I better get busy.
  
  Old timer applies in more way than one.
  Which reminds me. I probably should remove the tweet me in my sig. LOL.
  
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celente

12 years ago

Thanks

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Randohm

12 years ago

I completely agree that people should not be allowed to talk trash about a product just because they're jealous or angry at life, or just mean people etc. but aren't some of the marketers themselves a type of troll as well? So some people talk trash about someone else's post. Yes they may be trolls and if all they want to do is be negative because they enjoy being negative then they should be stopped. Of course there are some IMers who do and say some annoying things here as well. Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a troll here. I'm not trying to say bad things about anyone just to be negative and such but how can we tell the difference between someone who is legitimately fed up with promises to get rich in ad copy without telling you how to do it? Or someone tired of OTOs that are required to make the original offer work as it was advertised? Or someone irritated at ambiguous language? Or someone frustrated with reselling old material that others paid thousands for months ago but isn't completely relevant today? Or someone annoyed at some guru selling different versions of the same product with little value difference between them for the same price but the only way you know that is you have to buy it, read it all, listen to it all, watch it all etc. only to discover it's the same witch just wearing a different dress? Please let me say again, I'm not trying to be a troll here but I have sometimes wished we could call some of these IM Gurus out on their BS here like some of the IM Gurus say they want to call out some of the trolls here. I've never posted anything negative about anyone or any product on the forum and I do not like trolls either but where is the balance? How can we hold the snake oil salesman accountable while holding the trolls accountable at the same time and how can we make both happy? I just want to reiterate that I'm not trying to be difficult and I'm not trying to defend the trolls but when is it okay to call a scam a scam or a promise too good to be true to good to be true etc.

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

How can we hold the snake oil salesman accountable while holding the trolls accountable at the same time and how can we make both happy?

See that little red triangle to the lower left of each post? When you see something that breaks the rules, use that.

Paul

PS: You'll never make everyone happy. Trying is a bad bet.
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- Randohm 12 years ago
  
  Thanks Paul but I guess I'd hoped to open a discussion to establish more specifics of both so we can all better police the forums together.
  
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tpw 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Randohm

Or someone tired of OTOs that are required to make the original offer work as it was advertised?

That is against the rules of the WSO forum to do...

If you come across it, use the red triangle to report it.
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Sites For Less

12 years ago

I've been a lurker for quite some time, member since today but I notice that this is extremely relevant in the services section as well. A few of the members selling websites under the complete websites for sale have posts from new and even established members (some even each others competition) leaving nasty comments or ones meant to discredit there business. It's pretty messed up if you ask me!

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

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cjreynolds 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

Completely inappropriate picture.

...but I still can't keep from laughing (Yeah, I'm goin' to hell... :rolleyes
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I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...
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tpw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

Completely inappropriate picture.

I thought so too... Thanks for saying...

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sal64

12 years ago

Wow. I've been away renovating and missed all this?

I have to admit that I'm feeling left out with all these funny pics, so here's my valuable contribution (tongue in cheek of course)...

Firstly, here's the real me and not that gorgeous stock photo I use on my avatar. I may not have 5000 posts, but I consider myself an old timer who makes no money. Here I am showing everyone how many dollars I have made online...

and here's a great book that I recommend for certain members...

And never get into an argument with Paul because everyone knows he rules the roost around here...

And if the image fits...

Have a great day!

Sal

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Cali16 12 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

And never get into an argument with Paul because everyone knows he rules the roost around here...

So that's what Paul Myers looks like?!

I always pictured him a bit taller, though...
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DubDubDubDot

12 years ago

A lot of people here believe in a high level of protection for WSO sellers. Let's just say hypothetically speaking that Charles Manson ran a WSO from prison selling rolls of asbestos to insulate your home.

1. You wouldn't be allowed to say anything bad about him.

2. Only those who bought the asbestos have a right to post bad things about asbestos.

Yes, an extreme example, but you get the point. It scales down.

Most money method WSOs use blind sales copy (you have no idea what you are actually buying, thus you shouldn't buy it), but some disclose the general method. If experienced Warriors want to call this method into question before newbies spend their money on it, I think that is perfectly acceptable.

But I think the key thing to remember is that if you are legit and your offering is legit, it's easy to stick up for yourself. The problems for sellers seem to arise when they have lied about their personal experience with the method. Sellers like that don't have rebuttals to the negativity coming their way, so they cry in threads like this.

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Kicking Out The Trolls In The WSO Forum

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