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WSO Pro Advanced is coming... thoughts?

by WillR
51 replies
I just came across this today...

WSO Pro ADVANCED is coming . . .
Limited beta opportunity today

We are now testing parts of our new payment platform, which will include instant split commissions, 1-click refunds, and much more . . .

We just need a handful of people who are launching WSOs in the next 24 hours to help us test it out.

At this time, the new system DOES NOT support the following features:

subscriptions, ipn forwarding and key generation
If you don't need those, grab a test license below and launch your WSO!

Click here to participate in the beta

All unused WSO Pro Advanced listings will be cleared out after 24 hours, so don't create a listing if you are not launching a WSO very soon.

(During the beta period, the WSO Pro Advanced fee will be reduced from 5% to 2.5% per sale. There are no listing or setup fees.)
I guess we knew something was coming with the extra Paypal permissions we had to give of late. So now they will be charging us per transaction not per license. Seems like they will make a lot more money that way, especially on all the big launches. It also means his WSO of the Day promotions are now going to earn him even more money since he will be earning his affiliate split PLUS the fees for each and every transaction he makes.

What are everyone's thoughts on the new pricing structure? High? Low? Fair? Unfair?

It seems the new pricing will work out better for you only if you are going to make less than $400 worth of sales per WSO. Anything above that and your fees will go up.

(Yes everyone, we all know Warrior Plus is NOT affiliated with the Warrior Forum so no need to restate that. This is no different to talking about a third party service like Aweber or Wordpress).
#advanced #coming #pro #thoughts #wso
  • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
    Well, I'm not launching my next WSO in the next 24 hours - I'm really curious how this is going to play out though.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    As an affiliate I'm super happy about it.

    No more having to communicate with both buyer and vendor when taking care of customers.

    As a seller I wouldn't want to be running all that money through my account.

    So it is what it is I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      As a seller I wouldn't want to be running all that money through my account
      Jase,

      I totally agree with you on that point. It could actually be a deciding factor for me as to whether or not I run a WSO through the platform. If I'm expecting a large sales volume then having all the payments go through my account first is going to attract a LOT more attention to my account than it would have in the past. If offering 50% commissions then I could potentially have twice as much money coming through my account now.

      I really hope Mike keeps the standard setup and allows the advanced features only for those who want it. I'm not sure how that would work with affiliates though. Would they only want to promote products that had the instant one click refunds?

      I also hope Mike introduces a JV function where two people can be paid for the same product.
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        Jase,

        I totally agree with you on that point. It could actually be a deciding factor for me as to whether or not I run a WSO through the platform. If I'm expecting a large sales volume then having all the payments go through my account first is going to attract a LOT more attention to my account than it would have in the past. If offering 50% commissions then I could potentially have twice as much money coming through my account now.

        I really hope Mike keeps the standard setup and allows the advanced features only for those who want it. I'm not sure how that would work with affiliates though. Would they only want to promote products that had the instant one click refunds?

        I also hope Mike introduces a JV function where two people can be paid for the same product.


        I wouldn't be so worried about adaptive payments because as I understand it, paypal looks kindly on using that kind of system.

        The alternating payments that WSO pro does now, while it can be done using paypal, obviously, I heard they are not too fond of and it's created problems for some when paypal scrutunizes their activity.

        I wouldn't worry about the double amount of money, etc. as that's exactly how paypal wants it from what I've read.
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

          I wouldn't be so worried about adaptive payments because as I understand it, paypal looks kindly on using that kind of system.

          The alternating payments that WSO pro does now, while it can be done using paypal, obviously, I heard they are not too fond of and it's created problems for some when paypal scrutunizes their activity.

          I wouldn't worry about the double amount of money, etc. as that's exactly how paypal wants it from what I've read.
          The issue here is not with how those affiliate payments are handled. The issue here is trying to stay off Paypals radar. Certain things you do will trigger their fraud prevention team to do a manual review of your account. One of those things is when you receive a large amount of money into your account in a short period of time.

          Amounts like $20,000 or so don't seem to worry them so much as I've had no issues with that before. It's when you start getting $40,000 + into your account in a day or two that they seem to take notice and the issues start occurring. So as I said before, a launch where you might only have taken $20,000 through your account could now potentially be a launch where $40,000+ worth of sales come through your account in that same period -- since you are now taking all money before it goes out to affiliates (although it happens instantly).

          So yes, I would be a little hesitant to do a big launch using the new system. Obviously that's just my own opinion but I don't want to be here in a few months time doing a bunch of ("I told you so...")'s.

          Don't get me wrong, I love Warrior Plus but I love my Paypal account even more.
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          • Profile picture of the author princecapri
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            The issue here is not with how those affiliate payments are handled. The issue here is trying to stay off Paypals radar. Certain things you do will trigger their fraud prevention team to do a manual review of your account. One of those things is when you receive a large amount of money into your account in a short period of time.

            Amounts like $20,000 or so don't seem to worry them so much as I've had no issues with that before. It's when you start getting $40,000 + into your account in a day or two that they seem to take notice and the issues start occurring. So as I said before, a launch where you might only have taken $20,000 through your account could now potentially be a launch where $40,000+ worth of sales come through your account in that same period -- since you are now taking all money before it goes out to affiliates (although it happens instantly).

            So yes, I would be a little hesitant to do a big launch using the new system. Obviously that's just my own opinion but I don't want to be here in a few months time doing a bunch of ("I told you so...")'s.

            Don't get me wrong, I love Warrior Plus but I love my Paypal account even more.
            Will, think I missed something. Can you please explain more? Lets say if I sell something for $19, with 50% commission, will I now get $9.50 per sale (adaptive) or is there some other system? I seem to have missed a trick! I don't understand how we will be taking all the money before it goes to affiliates..
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          • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            The issue here is not with how those affiliate payments are handled. The issue here is trying to stay off Paypals radar. Certain things you do will trigger their fraud prevention team to do a manual review of your account. One of those things is when you receive a large amount of money into your account in a short period of time.

            Amounts like $20,000 or so don't seem to worry them so much as I've had no issues with that before. It's when you start getting $40,000 + into your account in a day or two that they seem to take notice and the issues start occurring. So as I said before, a launch where you might only have taken $20,000 through your account could now potentially be a launch where $40,000+ worth of sales come through your account in that same period -- since you are now taking all money before it goes out to affiliates (although it happens instantly).

            So yes, I would be a little hesitant to do a big launch using the new system. Obviously that's just my own opinion but I don't want to be here in a few months time doing a bunch of ("I told you so...")'s.

            Don't get me wrong, I love Warrior Plus but I love my Paypal account even more.
            I don't know exactly how they are doing it...but the way I have it setup is let's say commissions are split 50/50. When the "Buy Now" button is clicked and they are taken to the Paypal website to pay, instead of there being one email address they are making the payment to, there's two. It lists both the vendor and affiliate email, how much of the sale each email address is receiving, and the grand total. So, there's not any extra running through the vendor paypal account. It goes immediately to the affiliate, never touching the vendor account.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
              WSO pro has penciled themselves in to be associated (not to be confused with affiliated) with this forum exclusively.

              There are pluses and minuses with this.

              Personally, I'm jumping to JVZoo because it offers the ability to handle BOTH WSO and non WSO offers - which I think is a much better foundation and safer for long term means.

              Judy, I thought you were off your rocker there for a minute too - lol, but I see what you mean and you are right. Having the ability to go and snoop around on what WSO's are happening can provide some great personal research. I now need only simple access as I have purchased many things that use that platform.

              As for the additional features being added, well - he kinda needs to do this if he's going to stay in the game.

              I had heard the affiliate fees were dropped, but I guess that was a temporary thing - and for me is still a turn off. I've heard the other side of the coin - that it eliminates some of the riff raff that you don't want pushing your offer - but there are other ways around this still IMO without having to charge those who want to promote for you.

              So I guess for the current climate, these additions won't pull me back into how I presently want to run any new campaigns or WSO's.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    Thats how JV Zoo has structured their fees and we don't really mind because of the killer features they provide over the other options to sell wso's.

    I really hope Mike gets rid of the need to login into Paypal to do a refund and also gives an option to add a help desk URL instead of an email for support.

    We asked JV Zoo to add that feature... and they did it in a few minutes :-)

    Hopefully WSO Pro will have 1 click refunds like JV Zoo already has... just click the refund button and type the word refund in... and your done!
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  • Profile picture of the author princecapri
    Will, divided payments between 2 (or more) partners in a JV is something I am very interested to see. Without it, JV becomes a little more difficult (with loss in earnings due to intra-paypal transfer)
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    • Profile picture of the author SirBertram
      JVZoo has actually had that feature since the very beginning.

      Originally Posted by princecapri View Post

      Will, divided payments between 2 (or more) partners in a JV is something I am very interested to see. Without it, JV becomes a little more difficult (with loss in earnings due to intra-paypal transfer)
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  • Profile picture of the author Leo Wadsworth
    I love competition. It usually helps both products to get better faster - win for the users!

    I wonder if WSO Pro Advanced will adopt the pricing that JVZoo has in terms of either/or -- either the percentage OR a flat fee. IMHO, that model rocks.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Leo Wadsworth View Post

      I love competition. It usually helps both products to get better faster - win for the users!

      I wonder if WSO Pro Advanced will adopt the pricing that JVZoo has in terms of either/or -- either the percentage OR a flat fee. IMHO, that model rocks.
      So true. There has been little change to the W+ platform in the last few years (as far as I have noticed) but as soon as JVZoo hits the scene, the changes start happening.

      That's great for all of us. I also see a few other similar systems in the pipeline such as the one from Big Mike on this forum, so the next year or so shall be very interesting to say the least.

      It looks like that huge pie is finally going to get cut up between a lot of different providers rather than just the one that has dominated the last few years.
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      • Profile picture of the author zapseo
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        So true. There has been little change to the W+ platform in the last few years (as far as I have noticed) but as soon as JVZoo hits the scene, the changes start happening.

        That's great for all of us. I also see a few other similar systems in the pipeline such as the one from Big Mike on this forum, so the next year or so shall be very interesting to say the least.

        It looks like that huge pie is finally going to get cut up between a lot of different providers rather than just the one that has dominated the last few years.
        I think the way to look at it is this:
        WSO Pro was a payment gateway for WSO sellers, period. For the years that Mike ran it that way.

        (That's after Mike started running his excellent WSO tracking system, warriorplus.com, for even more years, for no profit at all. Which is to say -- I believe, currently, Mike ran warriorplus for no profit more than the number of years that he has run WSO Pro. And I have gotten HUGE value out of warriorplus, I can't even begin to estimate. The tracking system is still the only one out there, and even anyone who wanted to create a new one would have a lot of catch up to do, if, in fact, catch up was possible at all.)

        Around the beginning of last year (end of 2010, beginning of 2011), Mike introduced an affiliate system. (So, to say there haven't been any changes in the last couple of years is not quite accurate. )

        Somewhere in this mix ... I'm not sure where ... digiresults entered the picture. (as well as a variety of others, but digiresults most prominently.)

        But it wasn't until Mike introduced the affiliate system for WSOs that JVZoo entered the picture, at all.

        At least that's the way I remember it.

        I think Mike has recently made a post regarding the history of W+ here on the forum, which, of course, would be more factual than mine.

        Live JoyFully!

        Judy

        P.S. I've known both Mike (WSO Pro) and Bryan Zimmerman (JVZoo) for many years now. (It's sometimes scary to think about.) It was cool to meet them both in person in at the WarriorEvent in Raleigh in March! If you weren't there, you should have been!
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
          Originally Posted by zapseo View Post


          warriorplus.com, for even more years, for no profit at all.
          Is this a joke? If it is Judy, it's hilarious...
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          • Profile picture of the author zapseo
            Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

            Is this a joke? If it is Judy, it's hilarious...
            I'm guessing something got lost in translation.

            Mike did not, nor has never charged for, the basic free membership in warriorplus.com (duh, okay, that's redundant; repetition helps to drive the point home) ... that's what I mean.

            And it's an excellent research vehicle.

            You can research WSOs going back into 2006, I believe.

            So ... if "no profit" means to you that he was running a business at a loss, that's not quite what I mean.

            Not quite sure what you thought I meant, nor why you thought it hilarious, though. (Yah, I admit, I can be clueless about some things. Anyone who thinks they aren't needs to do some reality checking ... LOL.)

            What I mean is, he provided a valuable service (and still does, btw) that is available for free, called WarriorPlus.com .

            wso tracker,
            wso alerts ...

            all free stuff. No charge. No charge = no direct monetary profit.

            WSO Pro is a PAID part of WarriorPlus that provides payment gateway and affiliate services.

            Just found this ... the introduction of WSO Pro as a payment gateway:

            http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/mi...than-ever.html -- from 9/28/2008.
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by zapseo View Post

          Around the beginning of last year (end of 2010, beginning of 2011), Mike introduced an affiliate system. (So, to say there haven't been any changes in the last couple of years is not quite accurate. )
          Goes to show how quickly time flies. I could have sworn the affiliate program had been around for a few years -- maybe not.

          As I said above, I do like Warrior Plus and currently use it for all my WSO's and love what it does. But competition is good and I think these recent changes are a result of the other platforms (JVZoo, Digiresults) creeping up on Warrior Plus.

          You're right though, there would be no competition had in not been for Warrior Plus in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

    How can you be 'super' happy about losing 5%?
    I guess it depends on your perspective - if everything is automated then the seller is getting a hell of a deal. I mean think about it...your entire sales and order fulfillment process is set up cradle to grave and all the seller has to do is copy their Buy Now button code to their sales page.

    For the affiliate, there's zero hassle - just promote and get paid. The seller handles the support and refunds as they should. More importantly, there's virtually no risk to the affiliate of getting screwed out of commissions.

    All I'm saying is that compared to other types of affiliate programs, you're getting a hell of a lot of value for what you're paying.

    And yes, I'm biased, having built one of these platforms myself <cough>digibilly.com</cough> - but they're awesome.

    Right now, in the final phase of our own beta testing, we're running our Incansoft products through our system. We're splitting each sale between partners, which saves me the hassle of having to keep track of who's owed what, making payments manually, etc.

    It's all the little benefits that make it worthwhile.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I guess it depends on your perspective - if everything is automated then the seller is getting a hell of a deal. I mean think about it...your entire sales and order fulfillment process is set up cradle to grave and all the seller has to do is copy their Buy Now button code to their sales page.

      For the affiliate, there's zero hassle - just promote and get paid. The seller handles the support and refunds as they should. More importantly, there's virtually no risk to the affiliate of getting screwed out of commissions.

      All I'm saying is that compared to other types of affiliate programs, you're getting a hell of a lot of value for what you're paying.

      And yes, I'm biased, having built one of these platforms myself <cough>digibilly.com</cough> - but they're awesome.

      Right now, in the final phase of our own beta testing, we're running our Incansoft products through our system. We're splitting each sale between partners, which saves me the hassle of having to keep track of who's owed what, making payments manually, etc.

      It's all the little benefits that make it worthwhile.
      Mike, I know the benefits of adaptive payments... it's great, I'm all for it. (If you need another beta tester hit me up so I can bust your balls )

      It would be nice to have a fixed price OR the percentage option... similar to JVZoo.

      Because there's one thing no one mentioned, and that's the list.

      So now, not only does it cost you 5% per sale, but that little sign up for "WSO Of The Day" box is still checked.

      Get 5% of each sale going though the system and build a list of buyers on autopilot... sounds like a winner. Lantz is a smart guy, I've said that many times, and he's made a lot of us some good money.

      He can do whatever he wants with his business, but something like this is worth discussing as it's a pretty big change and I hope Mike is open to feedback from users (which, from past experience he is, which is awesome).
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

        Mike, I know the benefits of adaptive payments... it's great, I'm all for it. (If you need another beta tester hit me up so I can bust your balls )

        It would be nice to have a fixed price OR the percentage option... similar to JVZoo.
        That fixed price is probably a non-option for us - unless at some point we limited how long the offer could run for. When you consider that WSO's, for example, can run for years, that's going to consume a lot of resources for a one time fee of $20 or whatever.

        We're charging 3% (50 cent minimum) and that's it - I arrived at that number based upon our current overhead, the services we offer and making a reasonable profit.

        While I'm sure we'll offer some special deals from time to time, I honestly don't see how they're profiting on a once off fee (unless I'm misunderstanding something).

        While our system works great with WSO's, we're not specifically seeking the WSO market anyways - we're more interested in becoming an entry level platform for marketers who don't have the skills or resources to put an eCommerce system in place, regardless of where or how they're promoting their product.

        We need some real ball-busters for beta testing - probably starting next week, if I can wrap up the documentation and videos by then.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    As I see it....

    JV zoo is a much user friendly product.

    JV zoo is free to use and set up.

    WPro had the market to itself for a long time.

    People like pay per sale basis and free entry.

    Combined with wso fees, a licence fee prohibits entry, so a pay per sale version lowers the entry costs for many.
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      As I see it....

      JV zoo is a much user friendly product.

      JV zoo is free to use and set up.

      WPro had the market to itself for a long time.

      People like pay per sale basis and free entry.

      Combined with wso fees, a licence fee prohibits entry, so a pay per sale version lowers the entry costs for many.

      I agree with you Sal, but I still love DigiResults.

      They have all of those features for a while, and they have added the Equity Partner option which is just fantastic. The best part is how they allow you to setup a Sales funnel with an OTO or backend offering seamlessly and the tracking codes are really useful for identifying where your sales came from.

      Once the products are setup, I never have to worry again.

      Di
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Honestly, I like that the affiliates have to take care of their own taxes, not me........

    So, I hope that WSO Pro still operates the same way, but offers adaptive payments for those who like it that way.....
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    "how can you be super happy about losing 5%"

    Heck I pay my assistant alot more than that to handle the customer service that will now be handled by the product vendor.

    No more customers calling my phone or emailing me where I have to explain to them that I can't even give them access to the product they purchased from me, because it's not my product. << this is pretty confusing to people.

    When a product vendor doesn't take care of a customer, it puts my PayPal account at risk for chargebacks, disputes, etc. Plus when a customer puts in a refund request and I never get that request, then I look like the a-hole. Because I'll get a nasty email months later about how a customer put in 3 refund requests and never got it (yet this is the first contact I've had about it, but how do you explain that to a customer?)

    So giving up 5% of each sale to cut down customer service costs and lower risk with my accounts is well worth it to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author equanto
    Originally Posted by WillR View Post

    I just came across this today...



    I guess we knew something was coming with the extra Paypal permissions we had to give of late. So now they will be charging us per transaction not per license. Seems like they will make a lot more money that way, especially on all the big launches. It also means his WSO of the Day promotions are now going to earn him even more money since he will be earning his affiliate split PLUS the fees for each and every transaction he makes.

    What are everyone's thoughts on the new pricing structure? High? Low? Fair? Unfair?

    It seems the new pricing will work out better for you only if you are going to make less than $400 worth of sales per WSO. Anything above that and your fees will go up.

    (Yes everyone, we all know Warrior Plus is NOT affiliated with the Warrior Forum so no need to restate that. This is no different to talking about a third party service like Aweber or Wordpress).
    yes,, they actualy find that WSO is the most profitable market now these days, they read opportunity to make them more rich, without doing anything specific
    (you just wait someone to create a product, affiliate came, product sell, and than, caching$ dollar in your pocket)

    looks like their strategies,, will face the reallity
    just we wait what will happen
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  • Profile picture of the author alexgold87
    So guys and gals what do you think, is there a room for 2-3 more services offering the same features like JVZoo, WPro, DigiResults and etc. ? For me it sounds like new market for "Buy Button" providers and I am thinking about creating my own. What if I will? Is competition low, medium or big for now?
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    • Profile picture of the author zapseo
      Originally Posted by alexgold87 View Post

      So guys and gals what do you think, is there a room for 2-3 more services offering the same features like JVZoo, WPro, DigiResults and etc. ? For me it sounds like new market for "Buy Button" providers and I am thinking about creating my own. What if I will? Is competition low, medium or big for now?
      Absolutely NOT and here's why:

      I don't trust MOST of you to get the security issues right.
      This is not just about the security of the software but the numerous issues surrounding hoards of roving fraudsters. They LOVE to go after the "new kids on the block." Just totally love it. They have a field day with the new folks.

      The functionality may seem easy to do ... but there are many dragons and beasties in the pond, ready to snap up the unwary.

      And there are even more issues that I'm not going to go into here.

      (I have a number of friends who have returned, bloody, from these kinds of encounters -- and there are a variety of issues that have come up. It's not pretty. Not pretty at all. In fact, downright frightening. I have just been helping one person this weekend recover from an unfair assault.)

      I normally love more competition in marketplaces -- but, personally, I would rather see top competitors whose primary focus is on being, as you say, a "buy button provider" -- because I will feel far more secure as a seller, buyer and affiliate.

      If you don't want to make it pretty much the main focus of your business and who you are online, then I wouldn't be too interested in your services. And I would actively discourage people from using your services, for the above reasons.

      Incidentally, my hats off to the current crop of folks -- I know y'all have some significant scars to have gotten to where you are now.

      @Jill -- you are right about Mike's branding. Will be interesting to see where he takes it from here.

      Live JoyFully!

      Judy
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by alexgold87 View Post

      So guys and gals what do you think, is there a room for 2-3 more services offering the same features like JVZoo, WPro, DigiResults and etc. ? For me it sounds like new market for "Buy Button" providers and I am thinking about creating my own. What if I will? Is competition low, medium or big for now?
      I predict there will be about 250 of them by this time next year.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        I predict there will be about 250 of them by this time next year.
        I would imagine Allen could ix-nay any platform he found objectionable. I doubt he or his reps would sit idly by and let it become the wild west when it could come back to bite him.
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      • Profile picture of the author zapseo
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        I predict there will be about 250 of them by this time next year.
        Well, that would be a very different kind of "JV" Zoo ... LOL.

        (Sorry, Bryan Z ... it was too good an opportunity to pass up.)
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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by zapseo View Post

          Well, that would be a very different kind of "JV" Zoo ... LOL.

          (Sorry, Bryan Z ... it was too good an opportunity to pass up.)
          Nice one Judy
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        I predict there will be about 250 of them by this time next year.
        Not if Allen launches his own system and makes it mandatory for all wso's.


        Kidding aside and back on topic, I'm using Warrior + at the moment but it doesn't have the flexibility that I'm going need in my next wso, and the advanced W+ doesn't sound like it will do what I need, so it's a shame that I have to move away from it because I'm a strong believer in customer loyalty, but I'm very excited to see what Big Mike is planning.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        I predict there will be about 250 of them by this time next year.
        It will be a race to the bottom. A $17 listing fee will be undercut a dollar at a time. A 5% commission/service fee will be cut a half percent at a time.

        I can see where a profit could be made offering the service for free.

        If product buyers are added to the service's mailing list, then a product seller may be in a position to not only negotiate a free rate, but to charge the service for the rights to carry their product.

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          It will be a race to the bottom. A $17 listing fee will be undercut a dollar at a time. A 5% commission/service fee will be cut a half percent at a time.

          I can see where a profit could be made offering the service for free.

          If product buyers are added to the service's mailing list, then a product seller may be in a position to not only negotiate a free rate, but to charge the service for the rights to carry their product.

          .
          Dr Dan, I think they pulled that conversion killing redirect. I hated it too lol...

          Kindsvater, the smart marketers who are programmers out there should be able to have a field day setting up these kinds of sites for people or selling them a script or solution.

          But yea, I agree. It will be a race to the bottom overall, but I think JVZoo and W+ will still stand since they are big enough to attract affiliates and in turn attract vendors,
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          • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
            Originally Posted by SirBertram View Post

            JVZoo has actually had that feature since the very beginning.
            Yea... that is huge!

            Was great to be able JV with people and have the money taken care of instantly.

            Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

            Dr Dan, I think they pulled that conversion killing redirect. I hated it too lol...
            Good to know... That was one of the triggers for my rant... lol

            Biggest reasons though... is the rotating payments confusion, refunds, and support desk URL option.
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            • Profile picture of the author zerofill
              Couldn't pry JVZoo from my cold dead corpse anymore...

              Not paying 5% of my sales to just run an affiliate program anyway. That would be enough money per year that I would definitely just code my own.

              As for features... There isn't any place out there with the features that JVZoo has right now. A lot of people talk about other services catching up to W+. When the fact is... W+ and others have a long way to catch up with everyone else, especially JVZoo.

              W+ don't get me wrong... The idea was brilliant. But the addition of features was stagnant for too long. That is why competitors blew right by them.

              There are still a lot of people that stay with W+ no matter what. But there is also a lot of confusion whether W+ is affiliated with WarriorForum.com or not. There are still a lot of people that think W+ and WarriorForum are one and the same. So they definitely have that to their advantage.

              JVZoo is quickly becoming a spot for not just WSOs though. A bunch of people from places like Clickbank, etc... have been putting their products on there now.

              I can also talk "Geek talk" to the coder at JVZoo... so that is always a good thing LOL.

              They set up a backup for WSOs. So when WF goes down, it will auto redirect to a listing in a forum they run, so you don't lose sales. Just take the WSO and paste it right into their forum. Then add the link to it in the rollover field in your listing. (That rocks!)

              The JV auto split just friggin rocks.

              This and everything else Dr. Dan mentioned, is why I love, and will continue to use JVZoo.

              Many people are finding that I won't even mail their offers on other systems anymore. Because frankly I know on most of the rotating payment systems I am getting screwed when PayPal's IPN returns late.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stewart Alexander
    Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

    I tried JV Zoo for the first time on my current WSO and I'm really pleased with it.

    One thing to watch out for though that really caused me a problem was starting off your WSO (using JV Zoo), as a normal set up and then switching over to a dime-sale at a given stage later.

    I wanted to have a week of fixed price @$17 and then do the usual marketing stuff..."Dime sale starting soon, get yours now before the price goes up," but when I activated the dime sale (with a maximum sale price of $47, increasing in 0.50 cent increments every 3 sales), the price jumped from $17 to $41.50!

    Luckily I spotted it after the first sale came in and refunded the customer.

    What wasn't made clear at the time was you had to create a duplicate listing (they have a Duplicate Post feature), activate the dime sale and then copy the dime sale button from that listing and paste it into your WSO thread, therefore replacing the original buy now button.

    Technically it all worked, but then I discovered that all the affiliate links from the prelaunch no longer worked because the buy now button was now a dime sale button which was connected to the new duplicated listing.

    I had a good amount of affiliates at that point so instead of telling them all to sign up again, I removed the dime sale button and reverted back to the original buy now button.

    This in effect cost me quite a lot of extra income, not to mention the damage it may have caused to my reputation with my list as I was pushing them quite hard to buy before the dime sale kicked in and the price increases. Now it looks like I was BS'ing.

    Why am I sharing all of this with you guys?

    Well first of all, it's not to bitch and moan about JV Zoo.

    Brian helped me out personally with this (once it became clear what was happening).

    Apparently, I was the first person to have ever have tried to do a prelaunch and then revert to a dime sale.

    I was used to the WSO Pro system where when the dime sale feature is activated after sales are made, historical data is not calculated (I'm sure it works that way), and (as in my case), huge jumps in price don't take place.

    So the reason why I'm sharing this is prevent it happening to anyone else.

    So in short, if you're planning on using JV Zoo for a normal launch with a fixed price, then a dime sale some days after, be sure to duplicate your first listing, give it a new name, replace your "Buy Now2 button with your dime sale button and inform your affiliates to sign up using the new listing sign up link.

    I hope this all makes sense.

    Warmest regards,

    Stewart
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  • Profile picture of the author alexgold87
    2zapseo:

    Thank you for your honest opinion. This make a sense and there are my thoughts.

    I am web developer with more than 10 years experience. Since I came to IM I am still looking for opportunity make something really helpful and useful for all IM's. It can be a service or some software. So, as I can see market of "buy button providers" is changing and it's a good time to make another one.

    Actually I already see really big missing part in WPro and JVZoo. Newcomers in this business are focused slightly different. Who will realize where is missing part will be a leader in this business. And I want to take this opportunity while others (JVZoo, WPlus, DigiResults) are slipping.
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  • Profile picture of the author zapseo
    I would build more of a rep first, Alex.

    All the major "button providers" had built up a pretty good rep for themselves and were well-known as Warriors before providing the payment gateway services. I would suggest that you get MUCH better known if you wish to succeed as a "button provider." I know that at least 2 of them had been Warriors for years.

    There are lots of pieces of the puzzle to consider if you're going to be a service provider in IM -- ESPECIALLY one that involves a high-trust service like payment gateways.

    To start with, I'd been gettin' my bod down to London next weekend for the warriorgathering there if I were you.

    10 years' web development experience means nothing to me.

    What KIND of web development experience?

    Unless you've dealt with heavy load, realtime applications, you'll be out of your depth. And that's ON TOP of the security issues, both in code and "social engineering."

    (Just FYI, I spent over 20 years in Silicon Valley as an R&D software developer. One of the first jobs I had was doing realtime assembly language data comm for one of the largest public -- but not free -- data communications networks. You can look it up in wikipedia under "Tymnet." I spent several years at Apple, as well. Just thought you should know.)

    Live JoyFully!

    Judy
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  • Profile picture of the author alexgold87
    Thank you zapseo. This is a new challenge for me. Rep first.

    Mick Meaney this is true and one of missing parts of big pie in this market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    Wow, trying to keep up with all of the plus and minuses of each system is making my brain hurt lol.

    So who's going to come up with a website/article that portrays all of the the needed information in a simple manner? ; )
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  • Profile picture of the author georgedinmore
    JVZoo.com all the way.

    When WSOPro gets rid of charging affiliates a fee, for being affiliates. Then i will take a look again at WSOPro. Until then, i will not go no where near them.

    This system is the only one i know of that charges affiliates, for being affiliates - upfront. Take it out of the fees, not hinder the affiliates. Clickbank does, and JVZoo.com, why not WSOPro?
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by georgedinmore View Post

      JVZoo.com all the way.

      When WSOPro gets rid of charging affiliates a fee, for being affiliates. Then i will take a look again at WSOPro. Until then, i will not go no where near them.

      This system is the only one i know of that charges affiliates, for being affiliates - upfront. Take it out of the fees, not hinder the affiliates. Clickbank does, and JVZoo.com, why not WSOPro?
      The $5 or whatever we've been paying each month to use W+ is a drop in the bucket compared to the $100s you'd spend in transaction fees with ClickBank and JVZoo.

      That said, I like W+ and JVZoo.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan


    Just a few reasons why we (2RockStars) only use JV Zoo for our WSO's:

    1. Paypal receipt only shows the product owners info and never an affiliate because of adaptive payments.

    2. You never get screwed over from loss of affiliate commissions from rotating payments when you sell an odd number of products you promote.

    ie: You sell 99 copies of someones product you promoted and you only get paid off of the 98 and lose out on the 99 sale. This adds up and we promoted a few high ticket items that ran off wso pro and lost out on a few hundred dollars on those alone!     This adds up to hundreds and thousands in losses to you as an affiliate

    3. In JV Zoo, you can use your help desk for support instead of only having the option to add an email (wso pro only has option for email). This is huge for us and saves us so much time.

    4. You can run affiliate contests using JV Zoo and they host your page. They also have the leaderboard automatically update with the top affiliates. This saves us so much time not having to do it manually.

    5. You can ban and blacklist serial refunders and chargeback offenders! We have over 45 people added to our list and also have our global ban set so that we dont have to deal with bad buyers. This is huge! Finally we have the chance to spank the offenders and teach them that its not ok to steal our products!

    I made a longer rant and shared it on a few skype groups I belong to... but this is an abbreviated version

    If anyone wants to see the longer rant... let me know and I will add it here
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post


      If anyone wants to see the longer rant... let me know and I will add it here
      [/SIZE][/FONT]
      let's hear it ... Why not!
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      • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        let's hear it ... Why not!
        lol...

        First I want to say... I really like Mike and he is a really cool guy. I am very thankful for all he has done and I made lots of money using his WSO Pro system when their really wasnt any other option selling WSO's.

        So this is nothing against Mike personally or WSO Pro

        Ok... now that I got that out of the way...

        Rant Warning!

        Rant begins.....

        Why RockStar Ben and myself (The 2RockStars) switched to JV Zoo

        Why?

        Because it is too much of a time waster, leaves too much money left on the table, and we don't see any reason to continue to waste our time.

        Solution?

        Launch your next WSO using JV Zoo

        Why?

        1. Because when the warrior forum goes down for any reason (which it does quite often)... you can have a backup salespage in JV Zoo that your buyers will be sent to automatically if WF goes down for any reason. Which means no loss of sales!

        2. No more crappy rotating payments! Which means that when your buyer buys your product, they will always get a paypal receipt showing your business name and not an affiliate that will confuse the hell out of them.

        This is a huge time saver for affiliates and sellers because the affiliates will not have to deal with emails and support tickets of confused customers and hostile customers that don't realize they already received a refund from the affiliate under a different paypal account than that of the seller.

        This will also eliminate leaving money on the table for affiliate promoting. With rotating payments... If we promote you and sell 19 copies of the main product, 17 of the OTO, and another 15 of another OTO... Then we just lost out on commissions we should have got. This is hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars a year we as affiliates would lose out on! (One of the big reasons we don't like to promote wso pro wso's anymore)

        3. The seller deals with all refunds and no affiliates will have to check the wso control panel if anyone requests a refund. (This is huge!)

        4. The seller can set either email or support desk url in JV Zoo so you won't have to monitor an email if you want to use a support desk instead (This is huge!)

        5. Sellers running affiliate contests don't update the leaderboard daily... After doing my first leaderboard not having this feature... I never wanted to do one again....lol

        With JV Zoo... its built into it. It actually does it all for you and you do not have to touch a thing!

        Plus you have an option to add the affiliate contest page there as well! All hosted by JV Zoo. (How freaking cool is that?)

        6. As a seller you have the option to approve, deny, and even approve affiliates with delayed payments. Which means you can test out an affiliate you don't know to make sure they are legit before releasing payments.

        7. You can blacklist bad buyers so they can never buy any of your stuff! This is so awesome! We have our system set to block anyone that has been blocked by 3 other JV Zoo sellers and add our bad buyers to the list as well. On our last launch we had serial refunders confused why they couldn't buy our product and they kept getting an error page! lol (This is a life saver!)

        8. JV Zoo was created by Warriors that have created products and continue to create products that sell on the warrior forum like crazy! That means they know what you want and what we need to be successful to sell on the warrior forum and off the forum as well!

        Heck... When Ben or myself have an idea that will make JV Zoo even better... we just hit the owners up on Skype and if they like the idea... They implement it right away!

        Once I gave a suggestion on having a button on the affiliate sign up page to link to the affiliate contest... and Chad set it up in life 10 minutes! These guys are freaking RockStars!

        9. JV Zoo works not only for the warrior forum... but you can use it to sell your products on both the forum and off the forum. You can sell using your own domain or even use their own JV Zoo hosted pages with the free salespage builder included.

        10. With JV Zoo you don't get this ugly conversion killing redirect notice when people click on the affiliates link



        We didn't even talk about the option for affiliates to promote and get cookies for life or any of that...

        Also I have heard of others saying the only reason they stay with wso pro is because they want to get wso of the day or because JV Zoo doesnt have as many affiliates promoting their products.

        That might have been true a few months ago... But now plenty of the affiliates are also using JV Zoo and loving it!

        We had affiliates selling our last product using JV Zoo and just one of our affiliates sold more than 600 copies alone.

        Rant ended and sign up now
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post


      5. You can ban and blacklist serial refunders and chargeback offenders! We have over 45 people added to our list and also have our global ban set so that we dont have to deal with bad buyers. This is huge! Finally we have the chance to spank the offenders and teach them that its not ok to steal our products![/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS]
      Dan, can you clarify what you mean by "Chargeback Offenders"? Is that as in a credit card chargeback or what? I looked all over over JVZ and couldn't find it.

      My system automatically refunds anyone whom you've flagged as a serial refunder or banned (if they try to pay by CC, so they don't get your product and ask for a refund anyways), but a chargeback?

      How does that work?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        Dan, can you clarify what you mean by "Chargeback Offenders"? Is that as in a credit card chargeback or what? I looked all over over JVZ and couldn't find it.

        My system automatically refunds anyone whom you've flagged as a serial refunder or banned (if they try to pay by CC, so they don't get your product and ask for a refund anyways), but a chargeback?

        How does that work?
        I meant... that we just add their emails to the ban list and they cant buy from us...

        Not sure how JV Zoo set this up?

        But they cant even purchase our products at all!

        When they click the buy button... it gives them an error page

        So if people initiate a charge back with their cc company in paypal... we take that email and add it to the ban list in our JV Zoo settings.

        Does that make sense?
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post

          I meant... that we just add their emails to the ban list and they cant buy from us...

          Not sure how JV Zoo set this up?

          But they cant even purchase our products at all!

          When they click the buy button... it gives them an error page

          So if people initiate a charge back with their cc company in paypal... we take that email and add it to the ban list in our JV Zoo settings.

          Does that make sense?
          Yep...I misread it I guess
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    I've just started using JVzoo (literally last night) and to say I'm impressed is probably the understatement of the year.

    I've never used WSO+ but I'd suspect Mike is feeling the heat from the relative newcomers.

    In fact I'm coming to the conclusion that newbies etc to IM dont even need to buy hosting accounts when it comes to getting their stuff online.

    I'm loving the idea of not having to worry about paying affiliates out myself or loads of money going through my account red flagging paypal

    I've just used the JV function in JVzoo, brilliant idea
    Originally Posted by princecapri View Post

    Will, divided payments between 2 (or more) partners in a JV is something I am very interested to see. Without it, JV becomes a little more difficult (with loss in earnings due to intra-paypal transfer)
    Kim
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    I'm closing this thread now, seems like it's turning into an ad.

    I've recently deleted all references to Warrior+ from the WSO section because I don't care much for any of these services. True, they may give the Warrior Forum more exposure but they are far more a pain in my ass than they are worth.

    I've never once had an issue with paypal until these got going.

    And to those who run one of these services, do us both a favor and don't overstep your bounds. Some of the 'features' starting to crop up I don't particularly care for.

    Allen
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