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ClickBank refunds $318 7 in one day - Why do they allow this? Great start to the weekend great!

by IM Lover
94 replies
Well I have or should I say HAD been having great success by selling CB products, until today that is when I see over 7 damn refunds which amounts to $318 in returns.

Is it me or am I feeling the slightly abrupt end of the stick here, it seems to me people are buying these products knowing full well they will return them after a "Good read" Grrrrr this really really hurts!!

Any better places to promote than CB, perhaps somewhere that does not allow the promoters and sllers to be walked all over.

-Lee
#\\clickbank #$318 #clickbank #day #great #refunds #time #wasted
  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    It's the market you chose (not the payment gateway ) - make money online right?

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      It's the market you chose (not the payment gateway ) - make money online right?

      Will
      Yes it all consists of making money Will.
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    • Profile picture of the author JEasy
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      It's the market you chose (not the payment gateway ) - make money online right?

      Will
      My first reaction when I read the OP. People know how to work the system in mmo niche. I'm working to getting away from it.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      It's the market you chose (not the payment gateway ) - make money online right?

      Will

      Completely disagree.

      Envato doesn't have high refund rates like Clickbank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jammy
    I started with Clickbank 4 or 5 years ago but last year I found that I was having almost half of everything I sold getting refunded (the make money niche) so decided to concentrate my efforts in real actual products.

    The problem with Clickbank is anyone can get a refund, they don't even need to say why they want a refund and Clickbank give it out. Clickbank tried to stop it by banning people after so many refund requests but they just sign up again with new accounts.
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
      Originally Posted by Jammy View Post

      I started with Clickbank 4 or 5 years ago but last year I found that I was having almost half of everything I sold getting refunded (the make money niche) so decided to concentrate my efforts in real actual products.

      The problem with Clickbank is anyone can get a refund, they don't even need to say why they want a refund and Clickbank give it out. Clickbank tried to stop it by banning people after so many refund requests but they just sign up again with new accounts.
      I'm gobsmacked about this to be honest, how can this be happening. One or two I can understand yes, 7 refunds without even a reason as to why is just an out right disgrace.

      I for one shall not be pushing forward with CB, I need to find a new platform just somewhere that actually reviews the refunds.

      How can this by for godsakes!

      -Lee
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      • Profile picture of the author alistair
        As suggested above, this seems to be mainly in the make money niche for obvious reasons.

        Other niches I am involved in may have the odd refund here and there but nothing like what you seem to be getting.
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      • Profile picture of the author Eric Graudins
        Maybe there's a very good reason that people are refunding it.
        Did you buy the product to see whether it was any good?
        Sounds like you need to review what you promote.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Eric Graudins View Post

          Maybe there's a very good reason that people are refunding it.
          Did you buy the product to see whether it was any good?
          Sounds like you need to review what you promote.
          This. ^^^

          All of it. Exactly.

          It's true that "MMO", "IM" and "Forex" products on ClickBank do, collectively, have higher-than-average refund rates. But fortunately there are also about 397 other niches represented there, that don't.

          But let's not forget, too, that the refund rates for many products vary greatly between different affiliates, because so much depends on how the product's pre-sold by the affiliate.

          And let's not forget that products that have a high refund-rate across all their affiliates equally or nearly equally are removed from the Marketplace by ClickBank pretty quickly, because their 7.5% margin on the unrefunded ones doesn't cover their administrative and processing costs on all the refunds, and believe it or not they don't like losing money. :p

          And while we're about it, let's also remember that it's the ever-honored, no-questions-asked, 60-day money-back guarantee that makes the products there so easy to sell in the first place. Like many here, I certainly wouldn't be selling many hundreds of them every month without that (and no, I'm hardly getting refunds at all, because I select products carefully, vet them thoroughly and pre-sell them effectively, only to highly targeted traffic).

          How to Get Clickbank Sales?

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2161932

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2495251
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          • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            It's true that "MMO", "IM" and "Forex" products on ClickBank do, collectively, have higher-than-average refund rates. But fortunately there are also about 397 other niches represented there, that don't.

            But let's not forget, too, that the refund rates for many products vary greatly between different affiliates, because so much depends on how the product's pre-sold by the affiliate.
            This isn't the whole story.

            I have sold products where the only thing I split-tested was whether the order link went to ClickBank, Plimus, or PayPal. Orders were not coming from affiliates.

            The refund rates from ClickBank were massively higher. As in literally zero with PayPal to a 1/3 in ClickBank. Needless to say, I dumped ClickBank.

            If you are an affiliate promoting ClickBank products you have to incorporate a higher refund rate into your business plan.

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

              Orders were not coming from affiliates.
              I do take your point, thanks, Brian. I also think this is a rather different situation from how things vary according to the representations (if any!) made by different affiliates for the same product.

              Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

              The refund rates from ClickBank were massively higher. As in literally zero with PayPal to a 1/3 in ClickBank. Needless to say, I dumped ClickBank.
              Please excuse the observation that, for myself, I think would probably have dumped the product, as an affiliate: I probably wouldn't be willing to sell through Plimus or elsewhere a product which, when otherwise identically sold through ClickBank, had a 1/3 refund-rate.

              Of course, I'm saying this without knowing what the product was, and I acknowledge that in the IM, MMO and Forex "niches" (none of which I deal with, myself, partly for this very reason), the refund rates are likely to be higher.

              Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

              If you are an affiliate promoting ClickBank products you have to incorporate a higher refund rate into your business plan.
              Well ... I don't, myself. But I accept that people in a few specific niches may have to ...
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      • Profile picture of the author JEasy
        Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

        I'm gobsmacked about this to be honest, how can this be happening. One or two I can understand yes, 7 refunds without even a reason as to why is just an out right disgrace.

        I for one shall not be pushing forward with CB, I need to find a new platform just somewhere that actually reviews the refunds.

        How can this by for godsakes!

        -Lee
        It's the same thing as when people ask for wso review copies. They want your info or product you're selling but don't want to pay. You're dealing with a market that wants to make money. The one thing they don't want to do is spend money. So they'll milk the CB refund policy and get your stuff for free or at a very low price. Buying through their own affiliate links and all that stuff. It's the market like someone else said. That's how it works.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
      Originally Posted by Jammy View Post

      I started with Clickbank 4 or 5 years ago but last year I found that I was having almost half of everything I sold getting refunded (the make money niche) so decided to concentrate my efforts in real actual products.

      The problem with Clickbank is anyone can get a refund, they don't even need to say why they want a refund and Clickbank give it out. Clickbank tried to stop it by banning people after so many refund requests but they just sign up again with new accounts.
      I think this refund issue is just par for the course when it comes to digital items.
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
        I only browsed all of the answers, but did anyone ask, how many sales you had originally?

        Because, if you had 200 sales with 7 returns that's not bad. However if you had 8 sales and 7 returns that's terrible.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyoneill
      Originally Posted by Jammy View Post

      I started with Clickbank 4 or 5 years ago but last year I found that I was having almost half of everything I sold getting refunded (the make money niche) so decided to concentrate my efforts in real actual products.

      The problem with Clickbank is anyone can get a refund, they don't even need to say why they want a refund and Clickbank give it out. Clickbank tried to stop it by banning people after so many refund requests but they just sign up again with new accounts.
      Thats pretty bad huh, they get the product then get a refund and in most cases probably post it on illegal websites and leak out the files
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  • Profile picture of the author Raindance
    If you're niche is MMO or Internet Marketing then you should've thoroughly gone through its cons before joining it.
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
      Originally Posted by Raindance View Post

      If you're niche is MMO or Internet Marketing then you should've thoroughly gone through its cons before joining it.
      What ever, it's easy to say that. However you DONT know until you try, nor do you expect that many scammers leaching peoples work and then refunding it do you!
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  • Profile picture of the author smith33122
    I know it dosn't help but at least you are getting sales - I cannot even get into the top 100 for anything I have tried
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    Rather than complain about the refunds, perhaps reconsider the product. Either it's no good (are you a vendor or affiliate?), or the target customer isn't attractive ...but it isn't CB's fault.

    Any vendor worth his salt honours refunds on info products. No questions asked. So if refund requests are coming in fast and furious, it is a PRODUCT problem (or a target market problem)
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
      Originally Posted by Chris Thompson View Post

      Rather than complain about the refunds, perhaps reconsider the product. Either it's no good (are you a vendor or affiliate?), or the target customer isn't attractive ...but it isn't CB's fault.

      Any vendor worth his salt honours refunds on info products. No questions asked. So if refund requests are coming in fast and furious, it is a PRODUCT problem (or a target market problem)
      Arghh if you don't have anything sensible to say, please just move on I don't need stupid comments like that. I only promote GOOD products that have decent sales with good %.
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      • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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        • Profile picture of the author Vince1990
          You know what really sucks? When the sales page converts like gangbusters but the member's area is garbage or wasn't what the customer imagined when purchasing and refunds and you find out a week later that you won't be getting those commissions that you got all excited about.
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  • Profile picture of the author wheckitup
    Almost 30-33% is the average refund rate for me
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  • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
    Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

    Well I have or should I say HAD been having great success by selling CB products, until today that is when I see over 7 damn refunds which amounts to $318 in returns.

    Is it me or am I feeling the slightly abrupt end of the stick here, it seems to me people are buying these products knowing full well they will return them after a "Good read" Grrrrr this really really hurts!!

    Any better places to promote than CB, perhaps somewhere that does not allow the promoters and sllers to be walked all over.

    -Lee
    I'm starting to think this is very much the case with a whole range of digital products. If I were selling my own ebooks, I'd probably have a no refund policy due to the digital nature of the product. It's just way, way, way too easy for people to serial refund and acquire thousands in products with zero repercussions these days.
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
      Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post

      I'm starting to think this is very much the case with a whole range of digital products.
      Lesson learned for me to be honest, I disagree with the last comment how it's not CB's fault. It is partly their fault if they are to allow crazy amounts of refunds WITHOUT any reasons.

      They HAVE to have some type of criteria in place, otherwise it's just pointless promoting the products. I'm not going to whine about it any longer I'll just pick myself back up again, wipe of the dust and find something or somewhere else to promote.

      -Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author wheckitup
    I am habited now to refunds so i dont look them at all so just ignore it and move on
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  • Profile picture of the author Arroway
    The only way to promote MMO products on clickbank with a guaranteed win is via free means (such as a review site) or by mailing to your list. In those cases, refunds don't hurt you, since you didn't have to pay for the traffic in the first place.

    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
      I used to promote some of the launches that were announced at JVNotifyPro but I don't really bother with them anymore. My refund rate was about 30-40% and most people only signed up through my link to get my bonus.

      I think with IM products most people just buy them for entertainment value - these are the kind of buyers that move from one thing to the next, never taking action, and never making a cent online.
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  • Profile picture of the author robvegas626
    There's a saying among highly successful internet marketers that if you aren't seeing a lot of refund requests come in for your products, it means you're not selling enough products. Refunds are a part of the game, especially with Clickbank. And the fact that Clickbank requires you to offer a 60-day refund policy can be spun into some very compelling sales copy on your sales page. Emphasize the fact that your offer is totally risk-free (which it is), and you will see more sales. More refunds too, but the sales should far outweigh the refunds.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by robvegas626 View Post

      There's a saying among highly successful internet marketers that if you aren't seeing a lot of refund requests come in for your products, it means you're not selling enough products. Refunds are a part of the game, especially with Clickbank. And the fact that Clickbank requires you to offer a 60-day refund policy can be spun into some very compelling sales copy on your sales page. Emphasize the fact that your offer is totally risk-free (which it is), and you will see more sales. More refunds too, but the sales should far outweigh the refunds.
      There is no real reason that one must have refunds to be successful. I promote 300+ to my lists with clear "60-day money-back guarantee" statements emblazoned within promotional messages. This dramatically increases conversions. For over 14 years, my refund rate has always been well under 2%.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayWiz
    You can use JVZoo for Clickbank alternatives. Process the refunds and move on. You can create other product in other nice which refunds is minimal. All is learning process
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  • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by wheckitup View Post

      Almost 30-33% is the average refund rate for me
      Holy crap. If I ever saw a refund rate close to that I'd be sick.

      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      Any products I promote are researched and checked out, I'm not silly enough to bother with anything other than worth my time.
      So if it is not the products that are the problem it leaves two possibilities when it comes to the problem: either you are not marketing to the right audience or you are marketing to that audience in the wrong way.


      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      To all of those who are sticking up for CB I'm actually quite insulted, I expected more from fellow IM's being that I'm simply promoting the products.
      This isn't Clickbank's problem. It's yours. You knew the refund policy before you started promoting, right? I mean, it would be foolish not to. If you actually did read it, then you knew what you were getting yourself into, and what the risk was.

      Welcome to business. If you can't stomach it, there's the door.

      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      If you agree with CB's refund policy's sorry but you must be a moron, that is honestly all I have to say about the matter now, I'm not even going to bother checking back on this thread I only made it to highlight the situation.
      "Running away" because everyone wouldn't jump on your CB sucks bandwagon is not the way to go about things.

      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      I currently make plenty of money via other means in IM, this was just something I dipped my feet into as I'm a great reviewer, the fact that CB allow these amounts of refunds without even bothering to tell me only angers me more.
      OK, so obviously you didn't read Clickbank's TOS if you think they "didn't tell you".

      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      I'll leave now as I know I will get about as much pity on this thread, as the guys who purchased and then refunded back the money for the products I promoted.
      Not really seeing how pity would be deserved. Posts like this definitely don't help your case.
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    • Profile picture of the author BulletheadX
      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      To all of those who are sticking up for CB I'm actually quite insulted ...

      If you agree with CB's refund policy's sorry but you must be a moron, that is honestly all I have to say about the matter now, I'm not even going to bother checking back on this thread I only made it to highlight the situation.

      ... the fact that CB allow these amounts of refunds without even bothering to tell me only angers me more.
      So, an inflated sense of entitlement, name calling and an admission that you didn't even bother to research CB or read (or at least understand) their TOS.

      You have zero credibility.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      If you agree with CB's refund policy's sorry but you must be a moron
      Thanks for clarifying that.

      "Curious", though, that the people selling several hundreds of ClickBank products per month, month in and month out, without needing to worry about refunds, seem always to be the ones who agree with it, while it's the person calling us "morons" whose weekend prospects have apparently been so spoiled by 7 refunds on the same day.

      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      I'm not even going to bother checking back on this thread
      Well, if you do happen to change your mind about that, at some point, you'll find some potentially helpful comments, observations and links to additional information anyway. And I hope your prospects for the weekend improve, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author aaaa33030
    For ebooks I would suggest locking the content, along with disabling copying and printing
    If someone refunds then disable their license key

    I'm sure if the information in the ebook is worthwile they will want to read it again to refresh their memory
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Hart
    Not everybody that refunds is a "scammer".

    You thought the product was good in "your opinion" but clearly not in the buyers opinion.

    Maybe the traffic isn't matched to the offer, maybe the sales letter is misleading and not fore filling on the huge promises (which is most* IM products), maybe your presell didn't accurately let them know what they were getting.

    Of course, there are alot of people in the IM niche who buy with the sole intention of refunding but you can't paint with such a broad stroke.

    Its easy to blame CB and the buyers, the easy answers aren't always the right ones.

    No doubt you will ignore this post as you clearly have your back up and believe your right no matter what, so hey, move on.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author Wayne
      Clickbank needs to give refunds when customers request them. If they didn't the customer would do a chargeback on their credit card which would cause much more damage. If there was a high rate of chargebacks, Clickbank would lose their merchant account and then they wouldn't be able to accept payments for anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Franklin
    Lee...

    I do feel your pain! Clickbank was my starting point in my IM journey and I quickly abandoned it as the refund rates were driving me crazy.

    You should definitely considering selling physical products....Yes, you will still get refunds! But they will ALWAYS be a small percentage of your overall sales. And you can really do well with selling products....whether it is Amazon or CJ or any of the physical affiliate marketplaces!
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Maybe they bought the product because the claims said they would make money. Then they read it and the info sucked. They felt pretty bad about the purchase and took Clickbank up on their offer of an easy refund.

    All those refunds sort of prove that it's tough to 'make money' don't they?
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  • Profile picture of the author hmartin90
    What is the percentage of refunds? I think that many on this thread hit the nail on the head, in any business you will have a certain percentage of refunds. Unfortunately you got hit all at once I work my 9-5 in the retail field and my particular company accepts anything back, even without the product or receipt! So, it is not just a CB thing, it is a customer service thing and a CYA when it comes to make money offers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Govnor
      Hey Lee,

      Did you purchase the product so you could personnally review it more thoroughly?

      Maybe the product really does suck?

      CB don't have the best rep for quality digital products.. But I am sure some are not too bad...

      Gov
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  • Profile picture of the author MarlboroMonkey
    Typical Clickbank+MMO niche. I remember when I started out and was busting out $100+ days. I have a wordpress plugin that sends me an email when a sale is made, or a refund. It's like a nice little "Cha ching!" Then I'd get all excited like Hells yeah! Papa needs some new kicks!

    And then sometimes a couple hours later I start getting bombarded with the refund emails. Like a kick in the nuts

    It's funny looking back on it now. I did end up in the black by the end and sold off the websites on Flippa, but what a crappy roller coaster to be on.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
    The sarcastic Alexa! What a pleasant treat when I get back in from lunch!

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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      The sarcastic Alexa! What a pleasant treat when I get back in from lunch!
      There should be an extra button to click for "Thanks (I think)".
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Meh, ditch em. I am.
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  • Profile picture of the author GorillazGoods
    Yep I know how it's like. I started off with promoting Clickbank e-marketing products and for one particular product that I was aggressively promoting, I ended up getting over $400 in refunds. It was seriously driving me crazy. But yea, due to the "60 Day Money Back Guarantee" and the ease of simply buying those digital products, getting their info, and then refunding it, it will be a pain in the ass.

    Thankfully I started getting into various CPA offers, (like the e-mail submit types), and of course I NEVER get refunds. I suggest moving on from Clickbank and try others like: Peerfly, Maxbounty, WSO, JVZoo, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author seoproservices
    It always happen with CB... with my friends and me.. I took off from CB now.. and happy !! lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Facebookcash
    How much can you make with clickbank? I thinking about signing up. Do they pay per lead or does someone have to purchase something off your site?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Do not consider the money in your Clickbank account your money, until after 60 Days are up, then and only then can you consider any money in there yours.

    Just think of it as a gamble. Which it is in the MMO niche.

    In your case it seems a 77 % in your favor gamble, simple as that.... Actually not bad.

    Anyone not willing to bet when they are 77% favored needs to re-examine their thinking.

    Its a numbers game, and if done right, with that much in your favor, you can't lose in the long run.

    Just do not pay for traffic (PPC), promote freely to get your traffic, then you only lose time.

    Unless your PPC campaign, brings you conversions that still allow you to make and not lose money.
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  • Profile picture of the author equanto
    All we can do is to prevent and tried to decrease Clickbank Refunds
    yes ClickBank offers a 90-day full refund policy that they adhere to completely they become a real target for the scam refunders. Unfortunately what we have to do is to recognize this as the nature of the beast, doing the best we can to protect yourself. We have to do your best to make sure your website is an honest representation of the product you are selling. This wont stop the scam refunders but it will eliminate many of those that think you are offering something you aren't..

    Read your web information over as though you know nothing about the product. Check for anything that might confuse you or seems ambiguous. If you adopt this attitude it wont be quite so upsetting when the refund request comes in.
    You cannot take it personally, it isn't a reflection of you, your website or your product. Even taking as much precaution as you can you can still figure about five percent of your sales to result in a refund.


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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by equanto View Post

      yes ClickBank offers a 90-day full refund policy that they adhere to completely
      60 days, actually, but it doesn't detract from your point at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author equanto
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        60 days, actually, but it doesn't detract from your point at all.
        sorry my mistakes :p
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Whatever shortcomings Clickbank has, it is compensated many times over in independent safeguards for both affiliates and customers against the sometimes predatory practices of vendors. As an affiliate, there is a trust factor for promoting Clickbank products that is characterstically absent when terms are determined only by the vendor. The benefits of affiliate annonomity, sales standards, and its refund policy all are in convergence for world class consumer experience and affiliate protections against unscrupulous vendor practices.
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  • Profile picture of the author grover69
    Let me guess, you are doing the Forex niche? Highest refunding niche ever...well, besides penis enlargement!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Just a tip that helped me to reduce refunds at CB.

    Promote products to my list that I use myself ~ and ~ offer to help my buyers use the products, for one example, WordPress plugins. After the buyer has purchased the plugin they email it to me as proof of purchase. We install the plugins with pre-sell white hat marketing methods. Pre-sell simply means the buyer has already been pre-sold on what we will do with the plugin.

    The concept is we are only working with serious business owners who are only interested in ways to increase their profits. We offer a way for people to focus on their business instead of the technical end of an online business.

    Refunds are next to zero when your buyers are making money!

    Honestly, our service often costs 'more' than the product itself. The catch is we 'upscale' the product whereas without the 'upscale' the product has no clear advantage compared to similar products.

    Jeffery 100% :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
    I have calmed down a bit more today and had a long think over night, I actually started to promote these CB products only three weeks ago. Since then I have made $900, there are 7 refunds which amount to $318 "Roughly" which of course is not too great.

    However as someone mentioned yesterday, they just take the rough with the smooth as refunds come and they go, so I guess the moral of the story is that I should not get so pissed over it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andy Hart
      Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

      I have calmed down a bit more today and had a long think over night
      I kinda figured you posted not long after seeing the refunds and were pretty pissed off lol.

      Its one of those moments where you blow your top, then sit and back and realize its not that bad, the worlds still spinning.

      It just goes to show, we're all only human

      If you forget the actual refunds and the payment gateway (CB), you clearly have a system that's working and you know what you're doing -- HAPPY DAYS

      Andy
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      • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
        Originally Posted by Andy Hart View Post

        I kinda figured you posted not long after seeing the refunds and were pretty pissed off lol.

        Its one of those moments where you blow your top, then sit and back and realize its not that bad, the worlds still spinning.

        It just goes to show, we're all only human

        If you forget the actual refunds and the payment gateway (CB), you clearly have a system that's working and you know what you're doing -- HAPPY DAYS

        Andy
        I have to admit that yesterday I was some what pissed, coming on here looking for pity was going to get me no where and fast. I ended out getting a sale for $74.23 just an hour after my rant on here lol.

        I will just have to take each day as it comes, take the rough with the smooth as mentioned in my last comment, I guess nothing is ever that simple in life and this is just one of those things.

        Thanks for your support Andy, it's nice to see there are nice Warriors.

        -Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    Ah, the great Clickbank refund debate... I'll feel your pain man.

    James Scholes
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  • Profile picture of the author vivi62
    Not had this problem with clickbank at all but I dont promote a lot of their products better to do a solo ad on adswaps to people that have already bought in your niche most are not refunded this way you can sell clickbank products especially the new ones.
    Regards
    vivi62
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  • Profile picture of the author esk
    well maybe it's because most IM products are completely bs. I bought 2 IM products via clickbank refunded both within 5 minutes of purchasing because the products can't keep up with the salespage.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex.R
    It is a numbers game with Clickbank and so it is the same for us. As long as Clickbank has the edge, by that i mean they make more than they have to give back, that's how they look at the overall numbers.

    It's like the house edge in the casino's, as long as they are bringing in more than they are paying out....they are making money and that's all that matters as far as they are concerned.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Alex.R View Post

      It's like the house edge in the casino's, as long as they are bringing in more than they are paying out....they are making money and that's all that matters as far as they are concerned.
      You might imagine that if you were running their business, that would be how you'd look at it, Alex, but actually it isn't so at all. :p

      The reality, as explained in post #21 above, is that (wisely, and understandably!) they swiftly remove from the Marketplace any products which have a significantly high refund rate across all or most of their affiliates.
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  • Profile picture of the author BulletheadX
    ... just like casinos will swiftly remove from the floor any players that have a significantly higher win rate than is statistically supportable.

    So we're all just gambling, eh?
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by BulletheadX View Post

      So we're all just gambling, eh?
      As with Clickbank marketers, smart gamblers realize that there are strategic ways to bet and play certain casino games that will make all the difference. They also know that if one's goal is to walk away a winner, some games (and products) should be avoided.
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  • Profile picture of the author eman1
    The average refund rate with clickbank products is around 30%. To help prevent a high refund rate you must research each product before you start to promote it. Only promote high-quality products from vendors that you know have a good track record, who will stand behind the products they produce. This will help to reduce the refunds.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by eman1 View Post

      The average refund rate with clickbank products is around 30%.
      This is absolute nonsense!!

      In the real world of e-commerce, if it were even half that, ClickBank would hardly have survived for longer than Google, and paid out over $2 Billion in client earnings. Nor would Visa, MasterCard or PayPal be willing to do business with them at all! Sorry, but it really is a ridiculous assertion that just bears absolutely no resemblance to reality at all!

      This is yet another thread in which people would be very well advised to interpret much of the "information" offered with some skepticism: some of the people who post here these sweepingly generalised statements about ClickBank, evidently on the basis of their own extremely limited and totally uncharacteristic experiences, really do have remarkably little idea what they're talking about.
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    • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
      Originally Posted by eman1 View Post

      The average refund rate with clickbank products is around 30%.
      This may technically be right.

      If you purposely went out of your way to source the
      worst products possibly available on Clickbank and
      even then you would really have to go some to get to
      30% refund rate unless your paddling in the make
      money at home/on the internet market or Warcraft
      etc.

      The average rate of refunds is around about 2-4%
      depending a huge amount on the cost of the product
      and the relationship building done post purchase and
      of course the quality of the product or at least the
      perceived quality.

      Generalisations like that don't help anybody, and
      are misleading at best.

      There's a lot of crap on CB although they are getting
      tighter with it, but there's also a lot of surprisingly
      good products with vendors who really care about
      their product, their affiliates and their customer base.
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  • Profile picture of the author JerryKuzma
    Would be much better to use JVZoo or another site, as you will never get ahead with CB!!


    All the best,

    JerryK
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JerryKuzma View Post

      you will never get ahead with CB!!
      And all the thousands of us who are making our full-time livings and building our businesses by promoting ClickBank products? We're all collectively hallucinating or confabulating, are we?!

      What is wrong with the all people posting in this thread who are trying to project their own misjudgments and failures onto everyone else?!
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    We run 2 parallel sites one via 1shoppingcart.com one
    via clickbank.

    Last year, CB ran at 3.8% refunds.
    1Shoppingcart 2.9%

    Exact same product.
    Exact same follow up AR series building the relationship.
    Exact upsell process in terms of products and costs.
    Exact same retargeting campaign.

    Dunno, CB does have it's positives but the way they
    hand out refunds like candy to people who are clearly
    just buying to refund is tiresome but the problem is
    manpower I suspect.

    Ultimately they can't police every refund out of the
    thousands they get without significantly increasing
    the costs they charge.

    Add to that , if a serial refunder hits any kind of block
    they go to the card provider directly , then you're
    into chargeback territory which is bad news for
    everybody .

    CB does a decent job , it's not ideal but it has benefits.

    If you're pushing into financial or MMOTI type stuff,
    then don't use CB, people in those markets are
    absolutely clued in to just buying then refunding
    within minutes.

    Build those businesses on a different platform entirely,
    I don't touch those markets personally but
    colleagues all tell me they simply left CB with those
    products and moved elsewhere.
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    • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
      Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

      That is a pain in my ass.

      I average about a 25% refund rate.

      In my head I've written off 30% of total sales in any given month in refunds anyway....so I just issue a refund.

      For example last thursday a customer sent me a 1,500 word support ticket telling me how much of a con artist I was and that he was informing his credit card company (he paid with mastercard) blah...blah..blah

      ...Seriously, honestly?...I just refund customers like that, because once you start getting the CC companies sticking their nose in, that's whole different can of worms.

      It was bloody hard for me to get a merchant account in the first place..so rather than risk losing it, I just refund.
      Yeah I hear you.

      We just have a 100% zero hassle refund policy.

      Life is far to short to waste time arguing the toss with some waster of his absurd refund reasons or risking a chargeback etc.

      Just let your man/womanfriday refund them and get on with making more $$.

      BTW, 25% refund rate, I presume you're in a make money type space, one of those niches as you say you just have to suck up horrible refund rates and consider it the reality of doing business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by eman1 View Post

      The average refund rate with clickbank products is around 30%.
      Originally Posted by SimonHarrison View Post

      but the problem is manpower I suspect.

      Ultimately they can't police every refund out of the thousands they get without significantly increasing the costs they charge.
      Back in 2008 ClickBank provided these figures

      - Overall refund rate between 7 and 8%
      - 24,000 completed orders a day

      Which is about 1800 refunds a day.


      .
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  • Profile picture of the author martyJames
    Given the general low quality of Clickbannk products im surprised the refund rate isnt >50%
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Thomas Michal View Post

        I only browsed all of the answers, but did anyone ask, how many sales you had originally?

        Because, if you had 200 sales with 7 returns that's not bad. However if you had 8 sales and 7 returns that's terrible.
        This is a point I wanted to make. It's a matter of perspective.

        Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post

        I have to admit that yesterday I was some what pissed, coming on here looking for pity was going to get me no where and fast. I ended out getting a sale for $74.23 just an hour after my rant on here lol.

        I will just have to take each day as it comes, take the rough with the smooth as mentioned in my last comment, I guess nothing is ever that simple in life and this is just one of those things.

        Thanks for your support Andy, it's nice to see there are nice Warriors.

        -Lee
        As you mentioned in another post, you've only been promoting these products for a few weeks. Not enough time to determine if 7 refunds in one day is the norm or a blip indicating a really bad day.

        Seven refunds in one day seems like a bunch. Seven in one week is one per day. Seven in a month is only one every ~4 days.

        Lee, I am glad to see you calmed down and came back. Ranting and then calling anyone who didn't support you a "moron" isn't the way to win friends and influence people...
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  • Profile picture of the author alfid
    Wow that sucks! I hate whenever I have stuff refunded. Just let it inspire you to work harder and make more money though!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    This is a great thread, it definitely makes for interesting conversation.

    Here's a thread I posted some time ago regarding my frustrations with Clickbanks "no questions asked" refund policy.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...onth-sick.html

    As a vendor, my experiences and perspectives are a lot different to affiliates. Unlike a lot of obviously successful people here who dont seem to have a problem with serial refunders, I do. And I take it very seriously.

    I spoke with a high profile internet marketer about a month ago and in his own words, he said ...

    "I dont offer refunds"

    He also said to me "Get away from Clickbank, its just everyone selling everyone elses garbage..."

    Now I know for anyone reading this post, you might be thinking "who cares?" or "I do well with Clickbank" ...but this guy is doing 10M a year.

    Put simply, he spoke, and I shut my mouth and listened.

    At the end of the day, its a business decision. You either work within Clickbanks terms of service, or you dont. You have a choice!

    Given the continual "blatently obvious" refund requests (some within 2 minutes) that Ive received during the past 12 months with Clickbank, I've decided to go elsewhere to promote my products.

    Ive also decided to convert my info products into physical format to move even further away from this whole "buy my $7 ebook and Ill throw in some steak knives" crap.

    This whole "Clickbank refund" issue is only going to worsen as more and more people become aware of the policy and begin taking advantage of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Given the continual "blatently obvious" refund requests (some within 2 minutes) that Ive received during the past 12 months with Clickbank, I've decided to go elsewhere to promote my products.
      So who / how are you going to power your affiliate program?

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author dodif
    That's sucks.. It happened to me with Ebay..
    People bought shoes,used them and asked for refuned!! That's annoying!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author jesisco
    Refunds are terrible with IM niche. I think it's not about the affiliate plateform. Even if you deal with another plateform with the same product(s), refunds will be there too. I made $1,775.82 last month with only one refund. Be carfeull when you select your products.

    -Jesisco
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  • Profile picture of the author Prowebstakht
    just curious, are u making big money selling these products? I mean did you used to make big money before? Like 5K per month or less?
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
    Ha I love it, complaining about $300 of refunds...!

    Most people complain about not being able to get $300 in SALES!!

    However, as much as it irks me when I get a refund via CB (probably about 20% - all IM niche), I"m also happy to know that I won't have a pissed off customer out there - for they can do far worse in bad karma than a quick refund. So from a merchant POV it can actually save you money in the long run.

    From a client point of view, I posted my first one and only refund request through CB myself end of last year. I bought a product here in WSO section, being very skeptical of what it "promised" to do. Being unhappy I communicated with the vendor a number of times. Still being unsatisfied and getting no joy from him I hit refund. He abused me, unfriended me on Facebook and Skype and hasn't spoken to me since. A typical childish mentality from someone who doesn't understand the rules of business.

    It's got NOTHING to do with what *you* think your product is, and EVERYTHING to do with what you CUSTOMERS thinks your product is before they buy it.

    If it doesn't measure up, you get a refund.

    Paul Barrs
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  • Profile picture of the author owenlee
    You earn some you lose some...

    Refund is normal in clickbank...just like in the retail there are also refunds...

    Just move on from this issue and carry on what you suppose to do...
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Originally Posted by Real Fast Views View Post

    Well I have or should I say HAD been having great success by selling CB products, until today that is when I see over 7 damn refunds which amounts to $318 in returns.

    Is it me or am I feeling the slightly abrupt end of the stick here, it seems to me people are buying these products knowing full well they will return them after a "Good read" Grrrrr this really really hurts!!

    Any better places to promote than CB, perhaps somewhere that does not allow the promoters and sllers to be walked all over.

    -Lee
    You cannot count ANY money you earn in your clickbank account as YOURS until, it has actually been given to you.

    That is the secret to not getting upset because of all the refunds. Just think of all the sales you have as strong possibilities for more income, but not definitive income.

    Then you will not be upset expecting money that is not really yours until it is in your bank account.

    I know that sounds maybe harsh, but it's honest and it's really the best way to look at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    Are these refunds from serial refunders?

    1 out of 10 sales for me is usually a serial refunder who buys the product and immediately refunds the same day just to keep it on his/her computer for free.

    Very rarely I'll get a refunder who does it within 7-60 days.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mormo
    I was wondering the other day how anyone could make money selling clickbank internet marketing material? Wouldn't the people wanting to buy just insert their own code and collect the affiliate money for themselves?
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    • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
      Originally Posted by Mormo View Post

      I was wondering the other day how anyone could make money selling clickbank internet marketing material? Wouldn't the people wanting to buy just insert their own code and collect the affiliate money for themselves?
      The majority of people aren't exactly smart enough to do that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
        Originally Posted by rmolina88 View Post

        The majority of people aren't exactly smart enough to do that.
        This happens all the time.

        You can see a mile off when someone buys through their own affiliate link.

        You get 1 hop to 1 sale in the analytics.

        or the aff id is 'cbrown' and the customer name is Chris Brown lol
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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      Not to get off subject but this is a prime example of why one really should push HIS OR HER OWN STUFF. CAPICHE.

      As for refunds, they're part of the game and I swear to Christ that if u offered someone a one way ticket to Heaven on the last day before the friggin' earth imploded....they might refund cuz the ticket was in coach not first class.

      METRICS ARE ALMOST A LOST ART...BUT IF U AINT GOT THEM DOWN....U WILL FAIL.

      I think a major part of the Click Bank refund issue is simply because the sales page could sell ice to Eskimos while the actual product comes "with a shit load of assembly required."

      2. Pimping Click Bank products en masse doesn't really build a relationship up with your customer like your own stuff does....and serial refunders do exist for the sole purpose of buying, downloading, refunding....and moving on to the next thing they'll never take action on.

      3. I have customers who literally would buy anything I put out....just out of loyalty. Even if they thought the product sucked they probably wouldn't ask me for a refund.True.

      4. If u are dead set on Click Bank....I think that the under the radar, passion based, obscure little niches are probably the way to go.

      These buyers have PASSION for a hobby...they haven't been smacked around like a ten cent whore IN THE MONEY MAKING VORTEX..... and THEY truly want to learn something about humming birds and why they friggin' hum.

      Doesn't require your first born daughter or a 25K sales page to sell these peeps either.

      Good luck.

      Stay Legendary:

      Vegas Vince
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    "Why do they allow this"

    It's YOU who allows this when you choose Clickbank as your payment processor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Originally Posted by Real Fast Views View Post

    Well I have or should I say HAD been having great success by selling CB products, until today that is when I see over 7 damn refunds which amounts to $318 in returns.

    Is it me or am I feeling the slightly abrupt end of the stick here, it seems to me people are buying these products knowing full well they will return them after a "Good read" Grrrrr this really really hurts!!

    Any better places to promote than CB, perhaps somewhere that does not allow the promoters and sllers to be walked all over.

    -Lee
    Hey Lee,

    Just change the product you are selling or even the niche.

    I am guessing this is Forex trading right?

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Anton543
    I have had only 4 or 5 refunds out of the now well in excess of 100 units sold through CB. This is now my third year promoting CB products.

    I agree with Vegas. There are many products out there that have great sales pages but the products do not meet the claims made on them.

    But sometimes its people with bad intentions. They will have a read and then return it well within the refund date.
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