Outsourcing in Philippines = Not Successful So Far

by redi
102 replies
I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
#outsourcing #philippines #successful
  • Profile picture of the author jonmay
    Have you tried odesk.com? I've had good results with them on some projects. I'm also about to try 123employee.
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  • Profile picture of the author moonzombie
    Are you looking for English writers?

    You may want to refine your search...
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    Find out why I get hired by other article writers to help them when they're busy. Premium content, reasonable prices. PM me if you're interested.

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    • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
      Are you paying for this test article? If not, that could be your problem right there.

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Cho
    I usually have them write an article for me. If they really want the job and believe they qualify, they'll take the time to write you a quick article on the topic you asked for.

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author moonzombie
    From a writer's perspective, if I can tell someone is serious about ordering content, I'm happy to write them a quick test article / sample up to 250 word. In my opinion, it's free advertising.
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  • Profile picture of the author Theeban
    I found lots of good writers on Freelancer.com - Most of them are from India and other Asian continents, so far I did not work with Phil. guys, but I heard they are very good at English compare to other Asian guys,
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    • Profile picture of the author Eduard Stinga
      Originally Posted by Theeban View Post

      I found lots of good writers on Freelancer.com - Most of them are from India and other Asian continents, so far I did not work with Phil. guys, but I heard they are very good at English compare to other Asian guys,
      Sorry but I couldn't help it, "Asian continents?" :confused:

      I don't want to drift the thread into a different direction, but it seems to me that people in the western part of the world just think they can outsource whatever they want to Asia for a few pennies and still expect to get good responses - an approach which I think is bad for business if you don't think of several other factors like the country you're outsourcing to, the culture, the type of work, etc.

      To the OP, although it has been said already, I think you're advertising in the wrong place. It never would have crossed my mind to use Craiglist for writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author BusyMum_2010
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
    Hi,

    What's your purpose of hiring writers in Philippines? Filipinos can write & speak American English but the filipino who can write perfect grammar depends on their education & what school they come from. If they come from a very good school/university/college, then, expect that. If they have higher education like MBA & Phd's, expect that as well. Otherwise, don't expect that if they come just from an average school or just any 2 to 4 years of college degrees.

    It all depends on your aim for writing. If you need writer for Press Release, there is $5 writer in Lordskye will write a press release between 300 to 400 words for $5, only on fiverr.com

    The good resource for anything $5 including writers is http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...4-15-12-a.html
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    • Profile picture of the author RonnyRaygun
      When I hire people from the philippines, I do the following:

      I write out a complete job description explaining the kind of content that I need and a summary of expected tasks. I emphasize that the most important skill is written and spoken english. Everything else I am willing to train.

      As part of their application, I ask for 1 paragraph explaining why their qualifications are a good match for the job description. This accomplishes two things:
      1. It gives me an idea of their knowledge and experience that their resume might not show.
      2. It shows me how well they can write (assuming someone else didn't write it for them).
      That one paragraph is short and reasonable enough to them to prove I'm not going to make money off of a freebie article, but is still long enough to allow them to articulate why they are a good fit for the job.


      Those people that write well are then invited to a video interview using Skype. I ask them where they live, expected power outages, internet connection issues, and explain to them in more detail what is expected of them. I particularly ask if they are personally knowledgeable in a specific niche. This usually means they are passionate enough about the niche to do regular article writing for me with little fuss.




      Leading up to the video interview, I sometimes ask my candidates to briefly research a topic, and then summarize the topic for me in the interview.


      The skype interview does three things:

      1. Establish that they understand what I am saying and they are not going through some translator
      2. They can relatively quickly understand my instructions and description--communication matters.
      3. They have a fast enough internet connection if it can support a skype video chat.
      Using my 'funnel' I go from 50 candidates to 3-4, and I usually hire 2. As is often the case, one of those two workers will disappear on me for no good reason.


      Most people I hire are paid 10k-15k PHP / month. The first month I pay weekly, and the second month and onward I pay monthly. I have given some of my workers raises. Most of the people I hire are the kind of people who work the machine. As they grow with me, I hope to get them advanced enough so they can build up the machine even further.
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      • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
        If you want high-quality English articles why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure you can save money but get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people that live there that speak and write fluent English but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am please correct me!
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        • Profile picture of the author RonnyRaygun
          Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

          If you want high-quality English articles why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure you can save money but get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people that live there that speak and write fluent English but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am please correct me!
          Philippines was most recently a US colony. So US influences are very strong there.

          The trick is to ask your potential employer if they watched Sesame Street growing up.
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          • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
            Banned
            Originally Posted by RonnyRaygun View Post

            Philippines was most recently a US colony. So US influences are very strong there.
            I agree to this.

            Originally Posted by RonnyRaygun View Post

            The trick is to ask your potential employer if they watched Sesame Street growing up.
            This is one of the many ways to determine if a Filipino writer is adept into writing in US English.

            With regard to requesting a test article written, make sure it's a paid test article because most writing agencies or individual writers won't take something that is for free. Same thing goes for my writing services. I am more than happy to write one PAID article to test my style and quality in writing. Why not order 100 words for $1.00 or $2.00? It doesn't hurt. Instead of driving away a potentially good writer just because of an unpaid test article.

            I am from the Philippines and it's up to you if you would like to view my opinion with a sense of bias or not. Philippines is now the # 1 PREFERRED BPO provider in the whole world. Ever wondered why I worked for Microsoft, as one of their call-to leaders, when everybody else in the whole world does not know how to fix a security-related issue on his/her computer? English is the "primary tool" in my position because even if I have all the formulas in my brain, if I don't know how to communicate it in perfect English, I won't be able to help my bosses in my department and those in Washington, USA.

            Same thing goes for my writing services. We have been operating since 2005 and I bet you'll agree with me that we would have not survived this far if we were not providing the quality that native English folks are looking for. While it's true that we can't favor everybody, me, earning almost $300 to $500 a day on my writing services alone is more than enough to shut my mouth on complaining with those "un-favored" clients who expected Earth for their $5.00 for a 500-word article.

            Bottom line, pay for your test article requirement and you'll surely find a Filipino writer. The world (not only America) wouldn't trust its business to the Philippines and make it as the # 1 preferred BPO provider if Filipinos are not exceeding clients' expectations.

            I hope this helps.
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        • Profile picture of the author RnGWriter
          Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

          If you want high-quality English articles why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure you can save money but get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people that live there that speak and write fluent English but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am please correct me!
          As far as quality writers are concerned, isn't finding one an issue regardless of the country you are targeting? Of course there are genuine writers and there are people jumping on board the outsourcing bandwagon. The better filtering process you have, the more chances you have of hiring a quality and reliable writer.

          Take care, spike you hair,
          Shadab.
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        • Profile picture of the author rodneys
          Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

          If you want high-quality English articles why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure you can save money but get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people that live there that speak and write fluent English but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am please correct me!
          You are 100% correct. I agree. The rates plummet, the quality plummets. The fact is, these writers are non-native English and they simply don't have the ability to produce the same quality in content than a native English writer has. Don't compromise quality for price, especially if you are serious in achieving some online success.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dazzling Content
            Originally Posted by rodneys View Post

            You are 100% correct. I agree. The rates plummet, the quality plummets. The fact is, these writers are non-native English and they simply don't have the ability to produce the same quality in content than a native English writer has. Don't compromise quality for price, especially if you are serious in achieving some online success.
            That's pure hogwash. English is an official language in the Philippines and is the primary language of instruction in all levels of education, from kindergarten to college. The Philippines was a former colony of the United States and is heavily influenced by the American educational system, as well as everything related to the United States.

            Here's one blog of a Filipino writer whose English writing skills blow off the majority of "native English" writers: JessicaRulesTheUniverse.com.
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          • Profile picture of the author magiclouie
            Originally Posted by rodneys View Post

            You are 100% correct. I agree. The rates plummet, the quality plummets. The fact is, these writers are non-native English and they simply don't have the ability to produce the same quality in content than a native English writer has. Don't compromise quality for price, especially if you are serious in achieving some online success.
            Have you tried hiring a Filipino writer already? Do you have some basis?

            It appears to me that these are just purely your assumption.

            Anyway, you are entitled to your own opinion. Just be careful in writing some generalizations because if not all, most of them tend to be wrong.

            Louie Tugas
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        • Profile picture of the author HCRoyo
          Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

          If you want high-quality English articles why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure you can save money but get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people that live there that speak and write fluent English but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am please correct me!
          If you want high-quality English articles, why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure, you can save money. But will you get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people living there that speak and write fluent English, but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am, please correct me!

          There, I've already corrected you. =)
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          • Profile picture of the author magiclouie
            Originally Posted by HCRoyo View Post

            If you want high-quality English articles, why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure, you can save money. But will you get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people living there that speak and write fluent English, but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am, please correct me!

            There, I've already corrected you. =)
            Pal, it should be "who" and not "that."

            "I doubt it. I am sure there are some people living there who speak and write fluent English, but it's not the norm."

            However, you nailed it kababayan.

            Cheers,
            Louie Tugas
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        • Profile picture of the author Rivlals
          Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

          I am sure there are some people that live there that speak and write fluent English but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am please correct me!
          Yep, it's not the norm.

          Originally Posted by RonnyRaygun View Post

          The trick is to ask your potential employer if they watched Sesame Street growing up.
          Many in the Philippines are aware of this "trick" so it will not be effective.

          Also, I preferred watching Batibot (Sesame Street's local version) growing up but I write better than most Filipinos.

          A better trick is to ask them if they are wide readers; those who are not are often prone to making grammatical errors when they write.

          If they are aware of this trick and says yes even if they're supposed to say no, pay them $1 or $2 for a 150-word test article. That seems more fair.

          And if you run out of tricks to implement, just let Odesk do the trick for you.
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        • Profile picture of the author BTbuzz
          Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

          If you want high-quality English articles why hire people who live in the Philippines? Sure you can save money but get the same quality? I doubt it. I am sure there are some people that live there that speak and write fluent English but it's not the norm. Am I wrong about this? If I am please correct me!

          I agree it's not their education, there's a lot of highly educated people in the Philippines, It's the cultural difference that comes through in their writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    Why not try placing an ad in oDesk? Most of the competent writers from the Philippines can be found in that site.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I have numerous employees from several countries.

    I have in-laws in the Philippines, have lived there, speak
    the language, and understand the culture.

    I've found that there are slight differences in the expressions
    that we use, even thought the Filipinos do speak the same
    English, and their education system closely mirrors ours.

    You will find that you have to sift through more interviews
    if you are looking for really great "American" English.

    I tend not to use Filipino employees for final versions of
    writing but may use them to write near final versions. It
    all depends upon your purpose. They are brilliant and
    hard working, but I tend to prefer America writers, even
    though the may cost substantially more.

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author gentryliving
    I agree with mindreaderwriter. If you ask a test article you must pay it. I remember the one i interviewed from Philippines and ask her to write a test article. She asked me if i am going to pay the test article. Because she experienced most employers ask sample article and then when they get the article employers would always told her that her writing did not passed their standard. But one time while she was searching for an article she found it that her sample article was posted at the site from an employer that declined to hire her.
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    • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
      Banned
      @Gentryliving - This is the exact same thing that happened to me. After that experience, I promised to myself that I would rather close my business if everyone is this world is looking for a FREE TEST ARTICLE.

      This is the same scenario that caused me to write my terms and conditions for refund and revision requests. I don't accept a revision request UNLESS and UNTIL client sends me a VERY DETAILED email, preferably with bullet points, on what we missed and how he wants it to be corrected.

      I am a victim (though better to be called as a nightmare survivor) of around 5 clients who told me that I delivered rubbish articles. Good thing I was not born yesterday. I checked the articles in CopyScape and found them published. I took a screenshot and made those clients eat them. I didn't hear any single word from them after that. Rubbish? Will you put a "rubbish" post on your money-making site? I don't think so.

      With my Terms and Conditions on Refund and Revision Requests, I have ensured that anyone who wants a revision or refund will exert some effort so I can weed out those who are using the technique of being seemingly angry so any poor provider, who's new in this business, will get scared and release a refund right away, from the ones who truly deserve a revision.

      Originally Posted by gentryliving View Post

      I agree with mindreaderwriter. If you ask a test article you must pay it. I remember the one i interviewed from Philippines and ask her to write a test article. She asked me if i am going to pay the test article. Because she experienced most employers ask sample article and then when they get the article employers would always told her that her writing did not passed their standard. But one time while she was searching for an article she found it that her sample article was posted at the site from an employer that declined to hire her.
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    I've used Odesk.com a lot- love it.

    The trick is to try several different contractors at once. Then pick the best.

    If you don't have anything to compare them to, it's hard to select the best.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mabuhay Land
      Ok, my opinion is not going to be popular but it is going to be honest and TRUE.

      I am an American that often visits the Philippines and I have hired many filipino writers. You can get some good ones, very good ones, but it is not easy to do.

      Even if they are VERY fluent in English the way they phrase certain things can be quite different than how we phrase things.

      As an example, just a minor one: If we were to go to our moms house for Mothers Day we would most likely say : We went to my moms house for Mothers Day.

      A filipino MANY times would say: We went to the house of my mom for Mothers Day.

      Of course this does not sound like what an American would say at all.

      There are so many instances of this. Again, you can hire really really good writers but you have to search and pay them at least a bit to write a test article.

      I will tell you this...if you find a good filipino to work for you, you will NEVER regret it. Treat them with courtesy and respect and they are extremely loyal and hard working. And very talented.
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      • Profile picture of the author Go4DBest
        Originally Posted by Mabuhay Land View Post

        Ok, my opinion is not going to be popular but it is going to be honest and TRUE.

        As an example, just a minor one: If we were to go to our moms house for Mothers Day we would most likely say : We went to my moms house for Mothers Day.

        A filipino MANY times would say: We went to the house of my mom for Mothers Day.

        Of course this does not sound like what an American would say at all.
        Ooops, you miss the apostrophe.

        However, you are pretty spot-on with what you have written here. I am a Filipino and how I wish I could write and speak like an American, or let's say just even a close, but I just can't.

        Many articles written by Filipino writers have problems with coherence and unity.

        To the OP, have you tried onlinejobs.ph?

        Cheers,
        G.B.
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      • Profile picture of the author allpurposeguru
        Originally Posted by Mabuhay Land View Post


        Even if they are VERY fluent in English the way they phrase certain things can be quite different than how we phrase things.

        As an example, just a minor one: If we were to go to our moms house for Mothers Day we would most likely say : We went to my moms house for Mothers Day.

        A filipino MANY times would say: We went to the house of my mom for Mothers Day.

        Of course this does not sound like what an American would say at all.
        I haven't tried to outsource any writing, but I can't imagine why anyone would find this kind of situation objectionable.

        I write every word that appears on my various blogs. I never intend to outsource that. There are plenty of other things I'm planning that, if I don't outsource them, will never get done at all. But if anything is ever going to go out over my signature, it will be my responsibility, not any contractor's.

        Therefore, I simply assume that whatever writing I outsource, I will proofread and edit before it goes online. I'd have to find something a lot worse than "We went to the house of my mom for Mothers Day" before I'd start to get upset about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daveslaw
    ODesk is a much more reliable place to get some outsources as they already have a reputation out there and have been rated by others.

    Another technique that has been very successful is building your contacts up in the internet marketing world so you know other marketers out there and what you can find is there are people who are already using outsources that are really good, but they can't fill their role 100%. They would much prefer to give you their contact details then have them get a full time job with someone else. This has been my best success with outsources as I can get references from people i know or have dealt with over a period of time.

    However I have not ever used an out sourced content, personally if i can read it and find an issue with it then there is a problem. And I can almost always tell if the person is not a person that speak English all day everyday. Eventually Google will pick this up in one of their updates also.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daveslaw
    ODesk is a much more reliable place to get some outsources as they already have a reputation out there and have been rated by others.

    Another technique that has been very successful is building your contacts up in the internet marketing world so you know other marketers out there and what you can find is there are people who are already using outsources that are really good, but they can't fill their role 100%. They would much prefer to give you their contact details then have them get a full time job with someone else. This has been my best success with outsources as I can get references from people i know or have dealt with over a period of time.

    However I have not ever used an out sourced content, personally if i can read it and find an issue with it then there is a problem. And I can almost always tell if the person is not a person that speak English all day everyday. Eventually Google will pick this up in one of their updates also.
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  • Profile picture of the author mtruletecb
    Did you check the date that those applicants have sent you the application for your job post? 'Coz it might happened that those applicants have had applied simultaneously on the same jobs from different companies and got the quickest reply from other employer so when they received your reply, they were already hired on another company. That's just being practical, right?

    And also, about the grammar and originality problems, not all Filipinos have high level of fluency in the English language so expect that you can encounter those kinds of problems on your job hiring.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    the philippines is a large labor market. Like any market you have to work through these people to find the best for what you need.
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  • Profile picture of the author FNHPWR11
    Try to get as many example articles as possible. Even then, I received some "sample" articles that were written great but when the job was delivered it was obviously not written by the same person.. After you pick a person or two from their samples, start with a small job 10-20 articles. This should give you a good idea of their writing style. This is pretty much what I did and found a great writer. I have been working with her for over a year now. Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
      Banned
      FNHPWR11 is correct! I don't advise my clients to put in bulk orders if it's their first order. I want them to order just 1 to 2 articles to see if our style and tone in writing are what they're looking for.

      Originally Posted by FNHPWR11 View Post

      Try to get as many example articles as possible. Even then, I received some "sample" articles that were written great but when the job was delivered it was obviously not written by the same person.. After you pick a person or two from their samples, start with a small job 10-20 articles. This should give you a good idea of their writing style. This is pretty much what I did and found a great writer. I have been working with her for over a year now. Good luck.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dazzling Content
        The problem is that you're asking for test articles without any assurance that you're paying these writers for their work. That way, you looked like you were some anonymous guy trying to steal free content from writers who are willing to write for test articles (those were mostly desperate writers, though). No self-respecting freelance writer will write for a free "test" article and no self-respecting businessman will require his prospective employees to work for free as a "test" before they get hired.
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  • Profile picture of the author EdCanape
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
    most of the good writers in Ph actually charge more than the usual price.. i agree they are very hard to find even i am filipino finding a good writer for my stuff is a challenge. so i only rely on referrals on my network.

    on your craiglist post you probably get application from a "middle person" that's why you will not get the same quality they provided on their sample.

    based on my experience most of the good writers came from this schools University of Phils, DLSU, Ateneo and PLM. but again if you are looking for quality content expect to pay $8 onwards.
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  • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
    Banned
    Just like what I said on my post above, I'm a Filipino with my own writing firm. You are free to message me so I can see how I may be able to help you. If I can do it, I'll let you know. If I can't, I'll let you know, too.

    I want to keep myself from advertising in this forum section but I feel like there are lots of fellow Warriors in here who need better Filipino writers. So, I'm here to help.

    Here's my thread:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...-960-date.html
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  • Maybe consider hiring a revisor that is english who revises everything that you get for a small fee. Then hire a really cheap phillipino writer and provide templates for them to follow as damage control. Keep hiring and firing until you find one who is decent.
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  • Profile picture of the author mmansueto
    Philippines is a good place to hire writers. It happened that you don't find the good one but for sure you will find the best. Try another one. It would be better if you do a personal interview and ask for portfolios before you hire. Sometimes, to choose is not an easy thing to do, so I may suggest that you will look for companies who have the expertise. Hire from Philippines and find the best one for you. It is also cost effective.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Hansen
    To be able to find good writers in the Philippines, you should be able to more specific and "strict" with who you hire. Not all Filipinos are fluent both in the written and oral language. A quick sample article will work. But if it is paid or not would be an issue too. Most of them won't go for free sample articles though you can still find ones that will submit and work on this.

    But I would strongly suggest to be more precise on your qualifications and stick with it for whoever you hire.

    Let me know if I can help you Warrior to Warrior.

    Good luck
    Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author cvcena
    Hi Redi... When you ask for a sample article make sure you include how much you're going to pay for it... That should solve your problem... Perhaps I can help you...
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  • Profile picture of the author michaeljcheney
    I recommend you try agents of value – just Google them. I've been using them for years and whilst I don't really do ad hoc small piece of work they are great if you're able to take somebody on for a part-time or full-time basis.

    I don't have any connection to them I just use them for a long time to get a lot of technical and content creation tasks done by wish to outsource to someone I can trust.

    The big thing about this outfit and others like them is that they actually employ these people full-time. They make sure they turn to the office, they monitor what their doing every hour of the day and they conduct regular reviews and appraisals of each staff member.

    If you're trying to outsource something with just an individual you have to do all the micromanagement yourself can be time-consuming, frustrating and often fruitless. Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author koyaai
    Bottomline is... You have to mine deep if you want to find diamonds... You can't expect to hit paydirt with your first blow. I strongly believe that the only way you can get good partners is to offer them a win-win deal. As for me, whenever a client asks for a sample article... I tell them that it should be paid if they decide to use it... If not, I retain all rights... Win - win situation... Most of them agree to this and that is why most of my clients are now my partners.

    PS: There are lots of great writers from the Philippines and I know (and look up) to some of them. Thing is, they are already working full-time for some big companies.
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  • Profile picture of the author andynathan
    Being married to a Fillipino woman I van tell you her grammar is better than mine. So are her friends. I hqve had them write a number of articles for me over the years. Make sure they have a university education and talk to them on Skype to confirm they understand what you are talking about and you will be fine. If there are a few things off fiverr has some kick-butt American editors.
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  • Profile picture of the author whitedesire
    offf ho just trust on indians writers.... quality content you got from their... it may be costly for you but try some new comers and companies.... definatly you got help.
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  • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.

    It's not clear if you are asking people to write for free. What is better is to just order an article, send requirements and work through a first article or two - as a client. See if there is a fit. But don't try to make people work for free. You wouldn't want to do that, either. Just a little hint today

    And make sure to test communications, meeting deadlines and other criteria. More tips on posted on my Warrior blog:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/db...l#comment14472
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    • Profile picture of the author redi
      Originally Posted by dbarnum View Post

      It's not clear if you are asking people to write for free. What is better is to just order an article, send requirements and work through a first article or two - as a client. See if there is a fit. But don't try to make people work for free. You wouldn't want to do that, either. Just a little hint today
      I never had the intention of having people working for free. I just wanted to try out a different approach and willing to pay if I use the article. Several workers I hired previously didn't work out, as the result I lost money and time with them.

      Thank you to all who gave feedback constructively.
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      • Profile picture of the author nagaprasadny
        In that case, it is better you mention it clearly that you will pay for the article if you publish it and also it is a buyers' responsibility to build confidence in the providers. I did it on oDesk and I have good success with Filipinos. Again, all the Filipinos are not good at writing, it depends on their level of education and also their presentation skills.

        Originally Posted by redi View Post

        I never had the intention of having people working for free. I just wanted to try out a different approach and willing to pay if I use the article. Several workers I hired previously didn't work out, as the result I lost money and time with them.

        Thank you to all who gave feedback constructively.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    The problem is that you're trying to outsource writing for cheap. Writing is the one thing you never want to go cheap on. When I was still client copywriting, I had people come to me with dirt for a budget because they'd blown out the rest on fancy design. That's a mistake.
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  • Profile picture of the author myeanne
    Hi Redi,

    Here's just the bottomline, you always get what you pay for. And if you're asking a test article without pay and you'll just get worse results. Look for a reputable company and do not take a risk with a freelancer. I think I already posted here that staff leasing is far more better than hiring a cheap freelancer.
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  • Profile picture of the author AJ Warrior
    Dont cheap out on article writing its the most important thing. The Philippines are great for outsourcing all most anytype of job.

    The Philippine population are very Americanized in my opinon they have the best command of the English language then any other third world country, but it is hard to find a perfect article writer. There are great writers but very hard to find a good one, as far as speaking the laungae there great!! I have a VA who sounds like she is American but is Filipino so you just have to search.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daveslaw
    Outsourcing can be the best or worst decision you ever done. Make sure you test and give tests to your 'potential' employees. Many will say they speak English well and write it well, but always get tests or sample work done (paying for 1 article and seeing this person will not work out is much better than paying for a lot of 10 or 20 to find out the whole thing is rubbish that you won't be able to you).

    I found my best success is with digital for outsourcing. What I mean by Digital is video editing and graphic designing - damn the work was better than what i could have got here and about 1/15th the price! Now that's smart business!
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  • Profile picture of the author Efryll
    It's always a matter of luck. It's like finding a diamond in the sea of stones.

    EXPERIENCED freelancers are having problems looking for employers as well.

    Most of us experienced working on something for weeks and never got a dime in return. So what we're going to do if the client didn't pay us? SMH...

    We have this group on facebook. Send me an email about the Job description and skills required together with the salary. I will post it there and maybe help you guys out a bit. I know them all personally so they are not going anywhere. efryll(dot)seo(at)gmail(dot)com

    Thanks

    Efryll
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  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    African writers are pretty good. Indian writers can be good but I find their English doesn't flow well.

    The standard of English in the Philippines is pretty low, I don't know why people don't consider other countries.
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  • Profile picture of the author loi77
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
    I have the same problem when I tried to hire writers.

    It is wise to pay more to get a good writer.

    But no problem in other aspects like web design.

    All the best,
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    • Profile picture of the author Caragui
      Originally Posted by loi77 View Post

      I have the same problem when I tried to hire writers.

      It is wise to pay more to get a good writer.

      But no problem in other aspects like web design.

      All the best,
      Agree...they could be great for the technical stuff but you need to really look very hard to find good writers.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    You want it done right, write it yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author womenswaytowealth
    Do you recommend odesk for outsourcing marketing other than writing in the Philippines? I'm looking to hire someone to do my backlinks, help with keyword research etc. but probably not writing.

    Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author quercus5
    I would try odesk. There is a larger pool of qualified contractors to choose from and its minimal risk if you trial run a few workers.
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  • Profile picture of the author pamon
    stick with american writers for english content, speaking as a writer. too many mistakes or spelling/grammar errors and you'll just spend more time fixing it in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author mjb13815
    Try bestjobs.ph or onlinejobs.ph. I use iwriter. You can try them out. good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author bradstern
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
    Hi redi,

    I've been working with a great number of writers for the past years. I know the pain of selecting the perfect one for the job. Some deliver well, some disappoint.

    From what I could read in your post, you are the type of employer who asks for a test article. Maybe the setup of Staff.com would work for you. They ensure that the staff they have are experts in their field with at least 2 years of significant experience. Most of them are excellent writers from the Philippines.

    If you would want to look at them, here is the list sorted according to 'writing' skill:
    https://www.staff.com/skillcategory/Writing

    I hope you find one that works well for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
    Banned
    I would recommend you to interview Philippine-based writers via Skype through chat. You'll be surprised at how they respond to you. That's what I do, too. Every time I need to hire more writers for my team, I always interview them via chat. If it shows that their written English is good, I'll let them fill-out the application form and write the test article prior to formal employment.
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    • Profile picture of the author Streamforline
      Originally Posted by mindreaderwriter View Post

      I would recommend you to interview Philippine-based writers via Skype through chat. You'll be surprised at how they respond to you. That's what I do, too. Every time I need to hire more writers for my team, I always interview them via chat. If it shows that their written English is good, I'll let them fill-out the application form and write the test article prior to formal employment.
      How do you get their skype IDs? Most of freelance site prohibit contact detail exchange. Which ones do you use that allow?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelYoung
    There are so many talented writers on WF it's amazing. I also would never hire a Phillipino to do writing for me. I've tried it one too many times years ago when I did article marketing and discovered to my shock how poor they write. If you want a "cheap" yet good alternative try South Africa or New Zealand. If you want volume but good go Eastern Europe, and if you just want volume but passable go India, Pakistan, & Phils.
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    • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MichaelYoung View Post

      There are so many talented writers on WF it's amazing. I also would never hire a Phillipino to do writing for me. I've tried it one too many times years ago when I did article marketing and discovered to my shock how poor they write. If you want a "cheap" yet good alternative try South Africa or New Zealand. If you want volume but good go Eastern Europe, and if you just want volume but passable go India, Pakistan, & Phils.
      Oh boy, you got to blow your horn. Toot! Toot!

      I'm a Filipino - 100% proud Filipino. I've been running my writing services since 2005 and my company's revenue getting stronger and stronger. What does it mean? In your experience working with Filipino writers, you must have gotten some bad eggs. Bad and good writers are everywhere. Being a native English speaker does not always guarantee that the person can write well in English. Oh man, believe me. I worked for Blockbuster Online's Email Support Team. Obviously, you know who we were supporting but I rarely received an email written in a perfect English grammar with coherent structure. Same thing goes for Filipinos. Our national language is Filipino but not everyone gets the highest mark in their college score card for this subject.

      That said, I believe you already got what I was trying to put across.

      Cheers!

      JC
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  • Profile picture of the author EpicMarketier
    Working with people from the Philippines can be like anywhere. You obviously have to screen people beforehand. I personally work with people from the Philippines and have kept quite a few good people. If you want good writers, feel free to contact me..
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    • Profile picture of the author mindreaderwriter
      Banned
      Originally Posted by EpicMarketier View Post

      Working with people from the Philippines can be like anywhere. You obviously have to screen people beforehand. I personally work with people from the Philippines and have kept quite a few good people. If you want good writers, feel free to contact me..
      EpicMarketier - Do you have a writing services, too? Please email me at mindreader.writer@gmail.com. I'm looking to train some writers.
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  • Profile picture of the author austria
    Banned
    the worst option though for me was hiring people from India
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    • Profile picture of the author karrin86
      What are you planning to do with the articles? Post them on your blog/site, guest pots, build backlinks?
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  • Profile picture of the author larry1113
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
    If you're looking for writer's man go to elance.com or easyoutsource.com.
    iwriter is also another resource.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dex88
    Hi, if you are still in need of writers, I hope that you can spend some time to check out my thread. We are offering quality unique articles at a very cheap price. I hope that you can consider our services. Thanks!

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...-purposes.html
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  • Profile picture of the author flipfl0p
    Simply because the OP is a suspected "scammer" by the writers. You ask for a sample = pay for it. Been a writer before and on whatever country you get your writers from if you ask for a sample you have to pay for it!
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  • Profile picture of the author bbradford71
    I have been having good success with iwriter, I have been impressed with their quality!
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  • Profile picture of the author sarlat
    You can't just generalise a whole country - you could go to the UK and still hire poor writers. Morale is there are good writers everywhere in the world (eg India and Bangladesh). You just need to find them.
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  • Profile picture of the author sanjx01
    Hey Redi,

    You could try going through an actual outsourcing company - that way you're more likely to get what you're after, but you'll pay a bit more for the convenience of not having to look for someone yourself.

    Hope that helps!
    ~S
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnJonasVA
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Toplink
      I have been very impressed with virtual staff in the Philippines. So much so, that I setup my own outsourcing business there. The purpose was to provide better working conditions for our staff and a long term career for them. They are great. Win/Win.

      But the one skill we find hard to recruit............is writers.

      Not surprising really. How many of you can write well in a second language?

      I get most of my writing done on Elance.......
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  • Profile picture of the author Maxwell Stinson
    If you're looking for writers in the Philippines, then you're really going to search far and wide. Stumbling upon people who can write sensible and well-strewn content is kind of difficult within the country.

    However, it's kind of a good place to look for writers. Many of the Filipinos may not look the part and sound the part, but some of them have really good ideas and written grammar.

    Although, I would prefer to hire a Filipino writer that has BOTH spoken and written grammar in check, but beggars can't really be choosers. Still, a good choice to look for writers. You just need to get deeper into your search.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dex88
    In my honest opinion, there are actually a lot of good writers in the Philippines who can produce articles for you with flawless grammar. The trouble is, there are also a lot of inexperienced writers out there who are looking for work and they are most likely the ones who are replying to your job postings. Perhaps you should try other websites... definitely not just craigslist... and make sure that your offer is substantial enough for someone with a writing experience to consider.
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  • Profile picture of the author jchoros
    odesk doesn't charge you to post a job and it's free for job seekers too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jaymark
    Why don't you consider American writers? The cost is a little more but you'll have much less hassle with spelling, grammar and content. The efficiency and effectiveness should more than make up for the cost difference.

    I find overseas work great for things like programming, design, etc. but not for things which require a good command of the English language. Consider writers who are native English speaking.

    Best of luck whatever you decide.

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author Luffy
    Don't overjudge something/someone, It is actually depend on "what" "who" "where"..
    what is your work planning by outsource them? (not all of them can do all job, describe as it's necessary)
    who's you hiring? (Not every of them is good, try find that's good in their section)
    and where do you find them? (A good feedback not make us hurt, try find at good place and have feedback)

    for me
    I have my backup from myarea
    train them and make them as my employee
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  • Profile picture of the author williamk
    Banned
    Outsourcing is easy but getting outsourcers is tough. You should try out Vworkers and odesk as craigslist might not the the best option available to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author UberNoob
    I usually judge how good they are by the reply. It should be pretty obvious which ones are worth buying a test article from. Don't be too cheap though.
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    • Profile picture of the author SWinManila
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      • Profile picture of the author Jays80
        Unlikely to have good luck finding writers from Philippines. Best best is to locate US/UK writer from Warrior for hie forum.

        Thanks,
        Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    Everyone has already said everything. The only thing that we missed is the truth that Filipinos does not trust craigslist so in other words, you can't find good writers in craigslist Philippines.Odesk might be a good place but because of competitive prices, quality writers does not stay in Odeks longer than most. Once they got clients who are willing to pay good $ for their quality output, they leave Odesk.

    Why go to other places when there are dozens of quality writers with live feedback posted at "warrior for hire" folder?

    I think these links could give you more idea why people are hiring Filipino writers:
    http://ph.news.yahoo.com/ph--world-s...s-english.html
    http://ph.news.yahoo.com/3-philippin...XBhZ2U-;_ylv=3
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    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Why go to other places when there are dozens of quality writers with live feedback posted at "warrior for hire" folder?
      I would suggest it has to do with what they are willing to spend. I personally wouldn't do any writing for anyone for less than $0.10/word. Here on the WF, as well as other places, many US writers will write for 1/10th that rate at $0.01/word (that or they'll sell you spun crap or PLR for that rate).

      A lot of these folks want to cut that penny in half and get $0.005/word.

      So, they are looking for 'quality' content at up to 1/20th the price of what a skilled writer should be charging and think they can get it in the Philippines.

      Compelling writing is not defined by perfect grammar, alone or entirely. Especially on da net where it is more conversational and 'dumbed down'.

      Know what I am talking about?

      Oops.

      Do you understand that about which I am talking?

      Not many people, aside from those that fancy themselves writers, will read that first rendition and think, "Wow, that dude just ended a sentence with a preposition. His grammar, and by extrapolation his writing, sucks." They probably will, however, assume the latter sentence to sound weird to their ears and penned by a bloke straight out of Victorian England, which will result in a lack of continuity.

      But for those hell bent on plastering the net with the largest volume of content they can, regardless of the actual writing skill/style of the author or the experience level of the writer as it pertains to the subject matter, and demand perfect grammar and use that as their benchmark to judge the writing, I would see if you can find any Filipinos that had grammar taught to them by a Catholic nun. I will put any 15 year old US kid's grammar who has been educated in the Catholic school system up against any average college graduate who received their K-12 education in our public school system. All day, everyday.

      Them ladies like to beat grammar into ya. Or at least they used to be able to beat it into you. Now they are relegated to nothing more than the use of a red pen.

      I don't know if the Philippines has just one school system or has parochial schools too. But, it is the first thing I would look into when screening a writer from there, considering how prevalent catholicism is in the Philippines.
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  • Profile picture of the author themanflint
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
    Use the warrior forum for this type of work and you will not go far wrong!
    Hint;- Warriors for Hire
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I would suggest it has to do with what they are willing to spend. I personally wouldn't do any writing for anyone for less than $0.10/word. Here on the WF, as well as other places, many US writers will write for 1/10th that rate at $0.01/word (that or they'll sell you spun crap or PLR for that rate).
    I actually don't believe in the saying "you get what you paid for". I agree that many US writers charges that low because they want to stay in their business by all means but it also doesn't mean everyone is doing the same. I charge almost the same and my writers are selected Filipinos who are not doing any activity in any of these freelance sites (because they are my regular writers).

    There are lots of reasons why someone charges lower and the first is because of competition. If you are talking about US writers then well, I believe you.It is a joke for someone living in US to charge lower than $1/100 words unless he has hundreds of orders a day and having dozens of writers whom he can pay half low and keep the other half as profit.

    Nevertheless, there are still reliable writers at warriors for hire folder who charges lower but deliver original content - and I guess you can't get that thing from Native English speaking service providers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jillian W
    It could be a hit or miss when outsourcing to them. I did have some luck with some good writers from that country, but I've also had some bad luck where I did hire them for the job and then doesn't do the work at all and pretty much just ditched without hearing from them at all. This is hard also because even if they have a good portfolio, reviews, and test scores, some might still leave you hanging, but this is coming from my experience..

    I would just spend the extra money and hire someone who are fluent in English since all the money wasted on low quality articles could've been used to hire someone better.
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  • Profile picture of the author ImamHariyanto
    Maybe it is caused by difference of time zone.
    I have an experience using service from there, they usually too long for responding my message but they have completed my order well.
    I think he will work fine too for you
    Please be patient
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  • Profile picture of the author Streamforline
    I heard that philippinians are very unreliable so I never even tried them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adie
      Originally Posted by Streamforline View Post

      I heard that philippinians are very unreliable so I never even tried them.
      Yes, no one hire philippinians are they do not exist......
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  • Profile picture of the author BurtL
    Based on interviewing and testing writers over the past 10 years this is what I have seen. Out of say 100 applicants that apply, only 75 will actually have an appointment set. Of that 75 around 30 will actually show up. 10 of those will be decent enough to hire.

    It's all a numbers game, the more the people that hire in the Philippines the percentage of good writers available drop, and the percentage of bad writers trying to earn money online rise.
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  • Profile picture of the author JudyKarmann
    odesk is good for this kind of work, but you need to test them before you hire anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author llank
    Tried an writer VA through a service provider here and didn't have very good results. The writing didn't make sense most the time and I gave up after a week.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChocolateCheese
    I'm not sure if this a real issue with the Philippines or whether it is about finding writers on craigslist. I honestly haven't found good writers anywhere via craigslist when I've asked for low prices (anything below $5/500 words).
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    • Profile picture of the author Toplink
      Whilst I have my own team in the Philippines, (we set up our own outsourcing business), we have struggled to find writers. All the material looks like it has been written by someone who's second language is English.

      Hardly surprising! Hey, I'm not being overly critical, it's just a fact. I'm amazed at my team's abilty to work in a second language. I wish I could. Its just that writing marketing material in a second language is a big BIG ask.

      I'm now hiring writers from eLance.

      Sure I will pay a lot more. But today I think we need to focus on quality content much more, so I'm willing to pay the price.

      Any heh, I'm getting writers on eLance for 3-4 c a word. I reckon that's good value for high quality / professional writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author williamk
    Banned
    I always get high quality writers in iwriter. In my opinion they are worth the extra $. I pay them 6-8$ for 700 word article and they are very good quality.
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  • Profile picture of the author abbs
    I have never understood why people are so keen to hire workers from just the Philippines.

    I would strongly recommend you check out freelancing marketplaces with workers from all over the world.

    Outsourcing work is only as successful as you make it. You have to conduct a thorough interview and screening process, and that's not where it ends. Once you hire a worker, you have to give clear instructions as to what you expect etc. More importantly, you have to keep an eye or two on them, so that you can make sure they are not slacking.

    Most importantly, pay amounts that will keep them motivated, or else a writer you spent a lot of valuable time and money training will end up leaving you.
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  • Profile picture of the author getakoala
    You can also try elance.com
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  • Profile picture of the author BTbuzz
    Originally Posted by redi View Post

    I'm having problems hiring a right writer in Philippines.
    I have plenty of responses to my ad that I listed on craigslist Manila but when I asked them for a test article they won't reply. I wanted to try this way because my previous workers were okay with interviews but when hired they had trouble with grammars and originality.
    Why do you bother with all that, use textbroker,6 bucks or so 400 words done deal. Written by Americans. No wonder the economy is it the crapper. Every ones just shooting them self in the foot with all this outsourced madness. Then ask themselves "Gee I wonder why the economy is so bad", Big DUH ! Fillpinos do not write in the same way there's a cultural difference. I've edited over 3000 articles THEY DO NOT GET AMERICAN WRITING, if you want to pay 3 bucks then spend your time editing be my guest. And if you do pay some cheap ass price it will be SPUN. more garbage on the net.
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