by Nickro
37 replies
Hello guys im sure most of you know the cookie law that will start from 25th of may but i have few questions , maybe someone knows and can reply.

The law is for websites only from uk ? ( .uk website )
If i have a .com website and im from other country other than uk but i still get traffic from uk does it target my site too?
Does it matter where my website is hosted?
Does it matter where i live?

Thanks Nick.
#cookie #law
  • Profile picture of the author manicmethods
    EU Cookie Law Script & Guide Lines - Panda Doodle Blog

    That'll help you. It's the best explanation I've seen on the Cookie Law.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daveslaw
    Whats this I haven't heard of this before?

    Thanks for the resource i may look into this ASAP!
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Hi

    If you are not a UK citizen/resident, then the law does not apply to you

    They have not said anything about blocking foreign websites that don't comply (like China does).

    It could be a nightmare for UK companies if the government tries to aggressively enforce it. But then, governments with new laws like this tend to immediately start targeting companies (for example the FTC) so I expect some high profile cases out of it.



    Mahlon

    Edit: After checking out the excellent link above, it seems that most businesses would only need to update their ToS. Few sites use tracking cookies except Google and large Ad firms.

    What isn't clear is, if your site is allowing a 3rd party (Google for analytics or some other affiliate program) to set cookies- is that considered your site setting the cookies? The vistor is on your site, but the cookie is owned and set by Google (via your site).
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lengley
      I am sorry, I don't have enough knowledge about it.

      But, what about affiliate marketing? Can we put affiliate links on our website? And, can we send affiliate links through emails to our subscribers?

      I don't know about this law.
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      • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
        So far I have made out that for Google analytics basic tracking cookies & the like; you just need to insert text into your terms & conditions (like to inform visitors how they can disable cookies in their search engine option menu or whatever), you know, just basically informing the end-user that these (or whatever) cookies are being used.

        If you are in the EU that is. Don't worry about it too hard though, we will all hear about what is what if it is worse than the above. Be sure to have disclaimers/terms-&-conditions/etc on ALL your sites for sure. If you haven't by now then, well, expect the worse.
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  • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
    So far I have made out that for Google analytics basic tracking cookies & the like; you just need to insert text into your terms & conditions (like to inform visitors how they can disable cookies in their search engine option menu or whatever), you know, just basically informing the end-user that these (or whatever) cookies are being used.

    If you are in the EU that is. Don't worry about it too hard though, we will all hear about what is what if it is worse than the above. Be sure to have disclaimers/terms-&-conditions/etc on ALL your sites for sure. If you haven't by now then, well, expect the worse.
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  • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
    Sorry peoples this post reply thingy went weird on me there & has turned me into an echo???
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  • Profile picture of the author Nickro
    So if im not an UK resident i wont be fined with 500.000 pounds?
    well thats a relief ..
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    • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
      Originally Posted by Nickro View Post

      So if im not an UK resident i wont be fined with 500.000 pounds?
      well thats a relief ..
      Is that all it is £500,000?

      No worries, I'll offer them £1 a month & a packet of choc chip cookies.
      They can jail me if they like but it'll cost someone else that much for the jail house keep & court costs.

      I wouldn't deliberately set out to deceive anyone but I always assumed we ALL had to inform our website cookie arrangements in 'terms of usage or legal pages' anyway (no matter where we are in the world). This sounds like just simply adding another bit of text to inform visitors how to delete cookies (if you are knowingly using them).

      Maybe it's a little more than that but if they expect me to take a degree course just to understand their gibberish anal legal script that does not spell it all out to people clearly, well, then they can expect a good fight in the legal arena.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nickro
    Some of the big sites from Uk have allready done scripts to have people decide if they allow cookies or not.

    For wordpress platforms allready are few plugins that do the same.

    So anyway the solution its there .
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    The law is for websites only from uk ? ( .uk website )
    If i have a .com website and im from other country other than uk but i still get traffic from uk does it target my site too?
    It's UK law already and it does not matter where your site is located, where it's hosted or where you live. If you have UK visitors, you are breaking the law if your site sets a cookie without expressly asking the users's permission (unless it is strictly necessary for a service the user has requested).

    More here ...

    How the UK Cookie Law is Affecting Us

    Cheers,

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      It's UK law already and it does not matter where your site is located, where it's hosted or where you live. If you have UK visitors, you are breaking the law if your site sets a cookie without expressly asking the users's permission (unless it is strictly necessary for a service the user has requested).

      More here ...

      How the UK Cookie Law is Affecting Us

      Cheers,

      Will
      Hi Will Edwards,
      Amongst others that's a great link you have provided us with there. I need to make sense of all this nonsense in the next few days (for scheme theory tendency & sanity), You say that even if a country (even in the USA?) deal with UK visitors are breaking this law. Really? Then who will persecute the offender if they are are not governed by EU law?

      I just cannot see this working out at all & to be honest rather than doing anything to our sites perhaps it would just be easier (as well as amusing) if every website in the world insisted that visitors signed in from the onset & given the cookie notice that way.

      I am seriously in a complete state of shock over this EU law stupidity & when you say Clickbank are immune to this why not all the other companies etc? What is stopping other businesses arguing the same point that Clickbank have successfully done?
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      • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
        Originally Posted by Blimeyoreilly View Post

        You say that even if a country (even in the USA?) deal with UK visitors are breaking this law. Really? Then who will persecute the offender if they are are not governed by EU law?
        Yes that's right - you are breaking the UK law. That does not necessarily mean that you would be prosecuted for doing so. If you reside outside the UK, you would be outside of the jurisdiction of the UK government though you would still be breaking UK law.

        By the way, this is not likely to go away. Other EU countries will follow suit and then, who knows where all this will lead?

        Will
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        • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
          Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

          Yes that's right - you are breaking the UK law. That does not necessarily mean that you would be prosecuted for doing so. If you reside outside the UK, you would be outside of the jurisdiction of the UK government though you would still be breaking UK law.

          By the way, this is not likely to go away. Other EU countries will follow suit and then, who knows where all this will lead?

          Will
          I expect then that it is not just you & I who will be totally gob-smacked by all this.
          Recognition of this new EU law has only just surfaced for me in this forum in the last 24 hours. I feel like my mind is going through a black hole (you know, being stretched longitude/latitude sort of thing).

          Surely it would be easier for all concerned to just ask the permission of a visitor on entry to our site at one time at the beginning but there is also an issue with those sites that involve the 'login' process. I think it would be ideal to communicate with you again on this issue over the next few days but that would be a bit like asking for mentor sessions lol.

          Again, thanks for your input & I really hope someone can come up with a sensible all-in-one easy to implement solution (other than triggering off pop-ups everywhere.
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          • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
            Originally Posted by Blimeyoreilly View Post

            Surely it would be easier for all concerned to just ask the permission of a visitor on entry to our site at one time at the beginning
            That is actually what the government wants.

            ... but there is also an issue with those sites that involve the 'login' process.
            No - that is deemed to be essential.

            cheers,

            Will
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            • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
              Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

              That is actually what the government wants.



              No - that is deemed to be essential.

              cheers,

              Will
              Quite right login is an essential part - Stand corrected there.
              As usual I am researching the eBook on this issue (Iv'e been living under a rock from this new EU law for way too long. Can't think how I managed to miss this one but it did come out while I was busy graduating at University).
              The EU law eBook:
              http://silktide.com/templatefiles/EU...aw%20eBook.pdf

              Further to this it would seem that there is much more going on in the background now with regards to anti-EU sentiment in the UK & elsewhere. It would actually be a miracle if the EU stays together what with all the incompetence & financial doom going on.

              I am so unimpressed with this law because you would have thought at least someone who actually understood the need to analyse web-traffic in order to improve business growth (without hoarding personal details) would in fact point this aspect out as essential too. Clearly the EU uses baboons to do research for them.

              HaPpY DaYs (not)...
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              • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
                Originally Posted by Blimeyoreilly View Post

                Quite right login is an essential part - Stand corrected there.
                As usual I am researching the eBook on this issue (Iv'e been living under a rock from this new EU law for way too long. Can't think how I managed to miss this one but it did come out while I was busy graduating at University).
                The EU law eBook:
                http://silktide.com/templatefiles/EU...aw%20eBook.pdf

                Further to this it would seem that there is much more going on in the background now with regards to anti-EU sentiment in the UK & elsewhere. It would actually be a miracle if the EU stays together what with all the incompetence & financial doom going on.

                I am so unimpressed with this law because you would have thought at least someone who actually understood the need to analyse web-traffic in order to improve business growth (without hoarding personal details) would in fact point this aspect out as essential too. Clearly the EU uses baboons to do research for them.

                HaPpY DaYs (not)...
                Should the EU continue, remember to vote UKIP next time for Europe
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                • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
                  Yes Dietriffic the UKIP is a relevant threat in politics now.

                  So here's a few points that anyone who cannot be bothered to go click anything to find out anything I have taken a few key points out for you to consider:


                  Only vague recommendations have been given, and the law is ambiguous.
                  The UK government copied the confusing EU directive word-for-word without adding any clarification on any issues. They‟ve also intentionally chosen to avoid giving specific recommendations on how to comply with the law18:
                  "... we do not think there is any rationale for Government to specify the technical measures needed to obtain consent.
                  The theory is that industry will figure out the best solutions themselves over time, but currently the industry remains confused.
                  Information Commissioner's Office
                  The ICO are regulators. They police and enforce the laws.
                  Tens of thousands of organisations could be affected, but the risk of prosecution or a penalty is low.
                  The ICO say they will only enact financial penalties which affect a large number of people: This presumably rules out the majority of small businesses and websites
                  "The monetary penalty powers will apply only to the most serious breaches, such as cases where a large number of individuals have suffered distress"

                  Under even the most permissive legislation, cookies used for targeted advertising are almost certain to be strictly prohibited.
                  To clarify for those outside the EU:
                  We're outside of the EU, are we affected?
                  Only if you have operations in the EU.
                  If your organisation falls under the jurisdiction of the EU then it is subject to this law. The regulators who enforce it are based in the member states of the EU. So if your organisation is - say - located solely in the US, but sells to EU customers, we don‟t foresee this causing problems for you.
                  If on the other hand you have offices in the EU, or other legal entities, they may be subject to the law29:
                  "If you are a multinational company headquartered in the US, you should be doing something to comply with this directive"

                  1. A user must explicitly request a service.
                  2. Cookies must be strictly necessary to provide that service.
                  So if cookies are set for a service the user did not specifically request, they‟re not allowed. And if the service they did request didn‟t need those cookies, they‟re not allowed.
                  Analytics, behavioural advertising and conversion tracking therefore seem clearly excluded.
                  Login, adding items to a basket and most user preferences appear to be allowed.
                  If in doubt, remember the spirit of the law is to protect the privacy of users; if necessary at the expense of website owners
                  Isn't this just going to all be ignored?
                  By small companies, possibly. But services you depend on will likely be affected, and you might be compelled to act.
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                  • Profile picture of the author andreasup
                    Originally Posted by Blimeyoreilly View Post

                    Yes Dietriffic the UKIP is a relevant threat in politics now.

                    Under even the most permissive legislation, cookies used for targeted advertising are almost certain to be strictly prohibited.
                    To clarify for those outside the EU:
                    We're outside of the EU, are we affected?
                    Only if you have operations in the EU.
                    If your organisation falls under the jurisdiction of the EU then it is subject to this law. The regulators who enforce it are based in the member states of the EU. So if your organisation is - say - located solely in the US, but sells to EU customers, we don‟t foresee this causing problems for you.
                    If on the other hand you have offices in the EU, or other legal entities, they may be subject to the law29:
                    "If you are a multinational company headquartered in the US, you should be doing something to comply with this directive"

                    1. A user must explicitly request a service.
                    2. Cookies must be strictly necessary to provide that service.
                    So if cookies are set for a service the user did not specifically request, they‟re not allowed. And if the service they did request didn‟t need those cookies, they‟re not allowed.
                    Analytics, behavioural advertising and conversion tracking therefore seem clearly excluded.
                    Login, adding items to a basket and most user preferences appear to be allowed.
                    If in doubt, remember the spirit of the law is to protect the privacy of users; if necessary at the expense of website owners
                    Isn't this just going to all be ignored?
                    By small companies, possibly. But services you depend on will likely be affected, and you might be compelled to act.
                    Although it seems murky now, is it possible that as the law becomes official and people start experiencing all sorts of issues that amendments will be passed and the requirements will shift again?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
                      Originally Posted by andreasup View Post

                      Although it seems murky now, is it possible that as the law becomes official and people start experiencing all sorts of issues that amendments will be passed and the requirements will shift again?
                      This law I think kicked off in 2009 (but don't quote me on this). This is 2012...

                      When you say amendments do you actually believe there will be some sort of swift reaction from anywhere?

                      This is going to affect emarketing in the EU & businesses cannot wait years to sort out problems that retard profits (especially in economic times like these).
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                      • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
                        Originally Posted by Blimeyoreilly View Post

                        This law I think kicked off in 2009 (but don't quote me on this). This is 2012...

                        When you say amendments do you actually believe there will be some sort of swift reaction from anywhere?

                        This is going to affect emarketing in the EU & businesses cannot wait years to sort out problems that retard profits (especially in economic times like these).
                        ...The thing is the general public do not understand anything about cookies other than that they are about stealing their private info & abusing it. This is not the case with all cookies. So how are we going to explain to those visitors that there really is no issue without boring them to death with our explanations?

                        If a pop up appears even on a like button either the public will understand there is nothing to fear or they will avoid the inconvenience altogether & we will suffer because we will get a dramatic decrease in social media recognition.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      If you have UK visitors, you are breaking the law while outside of its jurisdiction
      Fixed that for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    There's a great site (not mine, and I'm not affiliated) that I link to in my sig about this.

    It's got a video to explain the matter in layman terms.

    Check it out.

    I've been thinking about contacting my local politicians about this matter, too. Present it to them as a matter that will have a negative impact upon the economy, which is very relevant right now. They should support the site owners.
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    • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
      Well now, as well as stating the obvious (how skanky & pathetic this new EU law is, that will do more harm to EU's economical growth), it is also going to turn all EU websites into a non-sense:

      Popups are one of the trickiest effects in web development. More than one web developer has been reduced to tears trying to get popups to work correctly. Furthermore, some irresponsible popup techniques have made many web pages handicapped and search engine inaccessible.

      You may as well just remove all your 'Like; share; twitter; Google+ etc' buttons. Imagine users who just want to share what they see & go press a 'like' button; will then be faced with a stupid pop-up asking for their permission for facebook (or whomever) to use their cookies for that process. How many bewildered visitors do you think are going to bother to continue?

      That will blow out a lot of social media connection which will favour crappy Google somehow

      This is so retarded & weird it is unbelievable that ANY human (of any supposed intelligent race) would dream up such a crank pot scheme.

      This will be like handing over the entire IM industry to favour countries like the USA (etc). We already know how much the US hates the Federal EU & it wouldn't surprise me if something underhanded is going on here with sly influences from those with deep pockets (conspiracy theory tendency creeping in here).

      This is going to be poetic justice to see not only the EU struggle in their self-defeating stupidity but also the stupidity of all those greed riddled countries who think 'aggressive capitalism' will pull them out of their debt riddled state economy either way.

      I am so close for the first time to consider poking my fingers up at this IM mockery & just watching all these mugs from a distance fall flat on their butt-like faces.

      Thinking about this EU law mockery has spoilt my day today. I'm off on vacation screw this.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimOrr
    Wow i have never heard about this before. I guess as mentioned here it is a UK thing. Good luck with that guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author minion
    So, from what I can make out - all you have to do is update your terms and conditions?
    Or do we have to ask a visitor to "opt-in"? Or is a visible "opt-out" enough (eg: banner at the bottom of the window: "We have set some cookies! Click here if you don't want them"?
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  • Profile picture of the author Nickro
    So far bt.com have a good script , but most of us cant do it like that , they have plenty of programmers that can do that .. not me ..
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  • Profile picture of the author alamest
    So what should we actually do, there is no many confusion going on..

    Does it effect to our affiliate marketing business like showing banners and so on... didn't got any proper content with proper solution for it..
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    • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
      Originally Posted by alamest View Post

      So what should we actually do, there is no many confusion going on..

      Does it effect to our affiliate marketing business like showing banners and so on... didn't got any proper content with proper solution for it..
      Banners, affiliate stuff, like buttons... the works.
      The UK government are leaving it to us to sort out how we go about things.

      These pop-up boxes (which sort of ask the visitor for their permission to be tracked by the cookie that for example; tells the affiliate program that it was us who introduced that visitor) will have have to pop out every time they click our affiliate banners, like buttons & just about everything that we have taken for granted for years.

      I am going to ignore this law for a while but someone will need to come up with a solution to this problem otherwise, well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the implications here.

      The larger businesses will be the main target for prosecutions therefore the solution may come from them in good time. Everyone should kick up a stink about it though regardless. As Bill mentioned earlier this problem will not be going away.

      I am still looking into this,
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  • Profile picture of the author oniram
    Well, the EU vs the Cookie Monster. LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Blimeyoreilly
      I am wondering if a site with a walk in presenter who casually (but briefly) informed the visitor of the purpose behind this new EU law would help eliminate any negative side effects & reinstate confidence in these new BS pop-up notices.

      If I get faced with pop-ups when navigating a website I get annoyed, so adding any more pop-ups to explain these BS pop-ups will just add insult to injury.

      Can anyone imagine this helping in any way? If someone could program a walk-in live-presenter that does just that in a subtle style; it may be a money earning product to offer EU (or other) website owners.

      Just an idea of course.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daveslaw
    wow this stuff sounds like it could get very complicated actually! Does anyone know of any updates on this? are they looking at in the future blocking non UK websites? If so are they basing it on the location of the site server? the domain (eg. .co.uk), or the name of the owner and keeping them local only?

    I know Australia requires the owner to have an ABN (australian Business Number) which can only be obtained by a business in Australia. This restricts a lot of outside Australian people from trying to get in i spose.
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  • Profile picture of the author a-harvey
    We have put together an ebook and full solution, ie - ebook that explains the issue - we provide a computer scan and then we give you the cookie/privacy policy to take the scan results and place in, we also have created a very nice banner that sits on the side of your site and pops out -

    There is a tec pack that includes all these things and also gives details on how to deal with video etc

    Its a total solution pack and a steal at £36 + vat - PM me if you would like a £16 review discount.
    UK cookies Law


    We are also looking for affiliates if this interests you.
    Andrew
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    • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
      Mercifully, this is not so much of an issue anymore since the release of the May guidance from the ICO.

      'implied consent' to the rescue!


      Updated in May 2012, our cookies guidance (pdf) sets out the changes to the cookies law and explains the steps you need to take to ensure you comply. The updated guidance provides additional information around the issue of implied consent:
      • Implied consent is a valid form of consent and can be used in the context of compliance with the revised rules on cookies.
      • If you are relying on implied consent you need to be satisfied that your users understand that their actions will result in cookies being set. Without this understanding you do not have their informed consent.
      • You should not rely on the fact that users might have read a privacy policy that is perhaps hard to find or difficult to understand.
      • In some circumstances, for example where you are collecting sensitive personal data such as health information, you might feel that explicit consent is more appropriate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
    I don't understand why government love IM so much.
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