4 Years later and still feeling lost - advice requested...

27 replies
Hi Guys,

First Post on WF so please be gentle, and if I have broken any rules apologies in advanced (don't think I have though).

Anyway looking for a bit of advise from guru's on here, unfortunately I may need to ramble on a little...

4 Years ago I realised that I clearly did not want to follow in the footsteps of people before me, that is working in a dead end job for 40+ years and then looking to settle down with a tiny pension... and then game over.

I wanted to enjoy life, I was happy to put the work in, working 70/80/90 hour weeks with no problem, but wanted to at least get 'outta the rate race' as Robert Kiyosaki would say. Eventually my thoughts arrived at the internet as probably the single best resource to start with, much better and cheaper than having to set up shop in the real world so to speak.

I spent the following 4 years devouring every piece of information I could find, from shares/stock trading,property investment, IM to web development and much more. Currently I am employed by a UK based wholesale telecoms business as IT Manager. I managed to teach myself web development to a good enough standard to get a low level job there, and over 2 years have proceeded up the ranks and happily increasing my knowledge of web development.

So work life is good, home life is good. The problem is marketing. I cannot seem to believe in it enough to want to do it. I have no desire to 'sell' I know that probably isn't a good thing! But I can't help it, I have a deep set distrust of any marketing ploy if ever I see one. So how can I then market to others?

One of the biggest problems I have with the 'make money online' niche as it were is that the advice being given is so very nearly is followed by an immediate, buy my x product, or subscribe to my x list, or basically makes me question the reliability of the advise/information being given.

I know this way of thinking is probably not the best way to go about making a profit online.

No doubt it is THE number 1 problem holding me back, so any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

#advice #feeling #lost #requested #years
  • Profile picture of the author travelerjim
    A wise man told me once that you have to do what you enjoy doing, if you don't do what you enjoy then you will never be any good at it.

    Keep on building your skill sets at web development - that's a good, growing field - keep on making yourself valuable and virtually indispensable at your job. If you want to branch out do side stuff at odesk.com, elance.com, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author RocketSmart
      Originally Posted by travelerjim View Post

      A wise man told me once that you have to do what you enjoy doing, if you don't do what you enjoy then you will never be any good at it.

      Keep on building your skill sets at web development - that's a good, growing field - keep on making yourself valuable and virtually indispensable at your job. If you want to branch out do side stuff at odesk.com, elance.com, etc.
      Thanks for replying, I can definitely see the wisdom there, that is probably the key success I have had over the last 2-3 years, that my skills have increased greatly (well they better @ 50hr working weeks).

      The crux of the problem with that plan however is, where are the economies of scale? where is the residual income we all love?

      I have tons over good/bad/crazy ideas that are a little different from your run of the mill blog + GoogleAds, they have to be because as you mentioned, do what you enjoy, I enjoy coding so I code from scratch little script to full on webApps that hopefully people will like and I am happy to market.

      But then, the same problem rears it's head, I've created my site, poured hundred's / thousands of hours of work into them and I now have to market.

      But I just don't get marketing as a concept, I don't use social media full stop so don't have twit followers or fakebook friends to 'sell' to.

      Would a JV be a good idea? Find someone who relish's the marketing/sales side of things and then take it from there? 50% of $xxx is better than 100% of $0 surely?

      Thanks again,
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      • Profile picture of the author WinstonTian
        Originally Posted by RocketSmart View Post

        I have tons over good/bad/crazy ideas
        From hundreds of students I've
        seen...There. That's your problem.

        It's not a crime to be creative...

        But it's a crime to be creative, when
        you absolutely do not have the reins
        on marketing yet.

        It's sinful.

        Take just ONE plan, and execute it.
        Screw the other plans... Work it out,
        test it, tweak it, and make it work.

        But what matters is...

        What kind of business do you want to
        create? Is it sustainable, and lucrative?

        Here's one way it'll work everytime.

        a. Squeeze Page
        b. One-Time-Offer
        c. Up-sell

        Grab any niche from a magazine niche,
        create a product, and build the list.

        It doesn't matter if you start small.

        Pay for traffic. Stay away from all that
        hair-pulling SEO, yahoo answers and
        crap like that.

        You WANT competitive niches. Doing
        SEO yanks you away from that, unless
        you're as brilliant as my buddy who ranks
        competitive sites within 3 days.

        Grab clicks from PPC. Solo ads. Pay
        people to promote for you on their lists.

        Binge eating? Golf? NFL? Whatever
        tickles cravings...will SELL.
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        Cheers,
        Winston
        The Beginner's Doctor

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      • Profile picture of the author JOSourcing
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RocketSmart View Post

        Would a JV be a good idea? Find someone who relish's the marketing/sales side of things and then take it from there? 50% of is better than 100% of $0 surely?Thanks again,
        Isn't it funny how sometimes we already know what we need to do (even before we knew we needed to do it)?

        A joint venture is definitely your solution.
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        • Profile picture of the author RocketSmart
          Originally Posted by JOSourcing View Post

          Isn't it funny how sometimes we already know what we need to do (even before we knew we needed to do it)?

          A joint venture is definitely your solution.
          Agreed, so how does one go about a JV? Having never been involved in one, I'm a bit clueless in this area...

          Thanks,
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          • Profile picture of the author JOSourcing
            Banned
            Originally Posted by RocketSmart View Post

            Agreed, so how does one go about a JV? Having never been involved in one, I'm a bit clueless in this area...

            Thanks,
            I've never involved myself with one, but if I ever got the inkling, I'd:
            • make contact with an interesting prospect
            • banter back and forth about what we could do for each other
            • get serious about how to make that happen in a profitable way
            • draw up a contract -- get it signed
            • start working

            Someone with actual experience can chime in with the necessary intricacies, or maybe they can be found online. I know you don't want to be bothered with too much detail, but I just wouldn't jump into such a thing without doing some level of research.

            I see the Cornell University Law School, for instance, gives a surprisingly simple explanation about JVs (Joint venture | LII / Legal Information Institute) while throwing in some relevant laws.

            Laws.

            Better look into that...
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  • Profile picture of the author honestim
    Hey

    I understand where you are coming from, and I don't feel you have broken any rules posting here!

    I can relate to your thoughts regarding almost any advice in the IM niche being followed by "buy this" or "buy that", but then again it need not be that way. I can show you numerous examples of ethical marketers who have built massive online empires based on the principles of honesty. There is nothing stopping you from doing just that.

    Moreover just because an individual is asking you and me to subscribe to his mailing list does not necessarily mean the advice is not trust worthy. Its up to us to figure out whats logical and what not. It's our judgment which should help us make the decisions as to whom we trust and whom we don't.

    In my opinion the best thing is to go ahead try things out, do all the dirty work, make mistakes, learn from them and build on that. The quicker you commit your mistakes the better it is for you as a marketer.

    If somebody says they earned $15000 yesterday just from the click of a button they may not be necessarily lying. Its just that you get to see a part of the entire story. Chances are they would have gone through years of struggle and toil to come up with a massive super responsive list that trusts them and buys from them.

    But for one such true case study you will find 10 fake ones floating around. So there you go buddy, use your wisdom and take on the challenge; I am sure you will do lot better than you think you will!

    Cheers
    HonestIM
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  • Profile picture of the author RocketSmart
    Thanks for the replies guys, definitely given me food for thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Originally Posted by RocketSmart View Post

    "...The problem is marketing. I cannot seem to believe in it enough to want to do it. I have no desire to 'sell' I know that probably isn't a good thing! But I can't help it..."
    It's all really simple. Either get over this ^^^

    or find something else to do like a job because if you don't believe in marketing then all of your efforts are going to fail. Your subconscious mind will not allow you to do something you don't believe in and will sabotage you at every turn. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author jesisco
    Hi

    I was like you because before i found my way i spent 3 years. Don't be sad. You're learning, every failure is a success' step. You have only to decide about what method or field of IM you want to focus to.

    Be focused and believe in you!
    -Jesisco
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  • Profile picture of the author EPoltrack77
    Don't look at it as selling! Look at it as supply and demand and you are providing a solution to somebodys problem. You don't have to sell to do this. People will come to you! Thats what you want to accomplish and continue doing what you love! Write articles based around a review of a product that you feel can help the people you share it with and just keep that mindset and good things will follow....
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    Working to achieve higher results...
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
    Hello Rocket,

    Yours is a problem that I see everyday from many different people in all walks of life. It's easy to solve but it will require on your behalf a little effort. Effort to learn a few things that you don't yet know, and then effort to do a few things that you have not yet done.

    I'd like to give you a back door link to my training site, Maximum Success University. You can look it up to see if it's the kind of thing that would be of interest to you.

    HOWEVER - don't agree to this just because it's free. If you agree then you agree to FOLLOW MY PROGRAM and WORK.Yes. Work.

    And I want you to start right now by contacting me with at least 6 reasons WHY you would like to learn how to run a successful Internet Business. (Note: I know that you don't yet have enough posts up to be able to send me a mesg through the warrior forum so you'll have to get creative.)

    Just to make sure it's really you, I will then PM you the details via the Warrior forum, as I don't want this offer going to anyone else (sorry folks).

    Food for thought. What will you do with it?

    Paul Barrs
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    **********
    It's Simple... I don't "sell" IM anymore, but still do lots of YouTube Videos
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  • Profile picture of the author Campaignmarket
    I agree.. JV does seem like a excellent good match for your, especially because you can have others do the marketing for you and still earn online..

    You could also consider selling on Amazon - No marketing hassles there!

    Paul Barrs - I just saw your introduction to MSU 2.0 - Looks like very powerful stuff! Is your program comparable to the IIU?
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  • My advice is always go for stuff that you are passionate about not just because you want money.
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    soon people... Relax...
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  • Profile picture of the author andyjbenson
    Hey Rocket and welcome to the forum!

    Sounds to me like you have all the tools to be successful at IM but lack the knowledge of HOW to market your abilities.

    I get what you are saying about "selling" and to be honest that's where 95% of people fall down when trying IM as a new career.

    The plain and simple truth is that NONE of us like to be "Sold" to, but then we all LOVE to buy stuff!

    Keeping that in mind, all you need to do is build a list of subscribers, and look after them. Treat your list as YOU would want to be treated, so no hard sells, provide value with the info you give to them and they will in turn begin to trust you.

    It's never about the size of your list, but rather the relationship you have with them!

    As for residual income, have you considered building a membership site based on web development??

    A reasonable monthly subscription fee to your site offering support and tuition on what you clearly are already good at would be a good place to start if you are looking to buld a residual income.

    The other beauty of that is, you are really only "selling" or "marketing" to your newest subscribers as your others will be paid members of your site and will stay with you providing you look after them and give them what they need as members.

    You could break down what you know on web development into monthly modules that members can work through, and have a support desk ( which is easy to set up) for any questions/problems they have.

    There is always scope for the odd upsell to your members to a premium or elite members area where you can offer either one on one training or cover the more advanced areas of your business.

    Food for thought and I wish you all the best!

    Andy
    Andy-Benson.com
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  • Profile picture of the author trulfos
    Hi RocketSmart,

    I have seen quite a few people expressing the same problem you have.
    I was in the same sort of situation myself. One of the most common reason why people want to give up with what ever they are doing is that the subject they are studying have not been understood properly.

    If you understand whatever you engage upon you will feel interested in doing it. The most important reason why people give up a study is because there are words that has not been understood or misunderstood.

    So therefore, make sure you don't go past any words you do not fully understand. If you feel you don't understand something or lose interest, go back and look for words you have not fully understood. Get them cleared up with the help of a good dictionary and go on studying from there on again.

    This is very, very important. I just mention this because not many people know about this. This is the main problem in schools today and has always been. One of the most common signs of having gone past a misunderstood or not understood word is that you start going to sleep. Get the word or words defined and the tiredness goes away.

    Go to a library where people are reading books and you will see how many people are sitting there sleeping over their books.

    Also of course, it is very important to find somebody who actually know how to teach. In most cases, from my experience, you are being told to do this and that but not exactly how to do it. There is an exact process in everything you are doing. A step by step from simple to more complex.
    Click at the link below and you will find someone who can teach you the skills needed to do IT marketing. I am sure you will be glad you did.

    All the best,
    Truls
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  • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
    One option to make money online that would not require you to convince anyone to buy anthing, would be to utilize google adsense.

    Get a google adsense account set up, then install it to show ads on your blogs (blogs about training for a new career are good, as well as loan consolidation, cheap travel, etc.)

    You will get clicks on those ads and make money without needing to convince or "sell" anything to anybody. Lots of people are quietly making lots of money doing this, sometimes with only a few blogs, others have hundreds of adsense blogs set up.

    As mentioned by someone here before, use paid traffic, not SEO. Be ready to fail with your first paid traffic attempts, eventually you will learn what you need to do, start small and build....

    There are some good threads on this forum about paid traffic as well as WSO┬┤s on paid traffic. Use the search function to find them.

    Good luck !
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  • Profile picture of the author JKflipflop
    I second that - Google Adsense would indeed be a good option if its mainly marketing which is troubling you. But believe me, there's nothing to feel dejected. Not everybody enjoys an activity as much as another person does - you should always look at anything 360 degrees before venturing into it. Adsense is a no-fluff thing if you do it diligently and moreover, since you are quite tech savvy as your experience suggests, why not go ahead with it and see what follows?

    All the best in your endeavours
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Originally Posted by RocketSmart View Post

    Hi Guys,

    The problem is marketing. I cannot seem to believe in it enough to want to do it. I have no desire to 'sell' I know that probably isn't a good thing! But I can't help it, I have a deep set distrust of any marketing ploy if ever I see one. So how can I then market to others?

    One of the biggest problems I have with the 'make money online' niche as it were is that the advice being given is so very nearly is followed by an immediate, buy my x product, or subscribe to my x list, or basically makes me question the reliability of the advise/information being given.

    I know this way of thinking is probably not the best way to go about making a profit online.

    Your difficulty to market and sell may be linked to the fact that you don't like being sold to either.

    This is the way of IM and most people are here to make money as a bottom line at least.

    My motivation is generally set around my needs. If I was desperate for money I tended to work that much harder. If things were sweet then I might step off a bit. Overall thought these are barriers I have needed to break down to be successful. We all have them and marketing seems to be yours.

    Most importantly is your belief that you can overcome your personal restraint. Be resourceful and most probably, once you have broken through your barriers they will be gone for good.

    Good luck.

    Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author prismkuet
    4 years, a long time to learn and after that now your are confident enough to give your first thread. We have to work for money. there are thousands of way to earn and you can go to anyone of them. No need to go for which one you dislike. If you don't like and rely on a system, why to go for that?
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  • Profile picture of the author larry1113
    Hey you said you're against the idea of 'selling' but you have to realize that what you're actually opposed to is the way you've been sold to.

    People don't like selling because a) They aren't good at it or b) they had a bad experience being sold to.

    But you have to realize that you sell everyday. You sell your friends to go to the movies with you, you sell your wife/girlfriend to be with you, you sell your boss on a raise, etc.

    So if you want to do business you're going to have to sell something. Heck, if you want to be successful financially at all you're going to have to sell something. After all, that's really what applying to a job is...selling yourself to the potential employer.

    Once you get over this mental roadblock I think you're going to be ok. You said you're knowledgeable in web development. Awesome =) Start selling your website development skills to local businesses, to marketers, etc.

    Create a website for yourself selling your services. Have a portfolio and a way for people to contact you.

    If you want an example take a look at this company Purpose Inspired Marketing. The CEO is 23 and runs the company extremely well.

    You can do it! Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    OK..after 4 years you're not learning from your mistakes!

    Go back to basics. Stick to one strategy. Do you want to promote Adsense, Amazon, Clickbank etc? Find one method you are comfortable with and stick to it!

    Work to your strengths. What are you really good at? Would people pay money to use this service from you? Think Fiverr, oDesk, eLance etc.

    If you want more ideas then PM me.
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    I Sell What People Want. The Money Is A Bonus..
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  • Profile picture of the author David Neale
    As some have already mentioned, you don't need to "do" marketing at all. Become a writer and publisher. Write that Blog every day, produce how-to videos, start a podcast interviewing people you are interested in (although the podcast is mainly used to get people to your other publications).

    Make a mental switch in self perception. You are now a publisher NOT a marketer.

    AdSense is 100% passive on your end, Google is doing the "marketing" for you. And there are other advertisers out there.

    Doing it only this way is NOT ideal, it won't make you the most money. The big money people have to embrace marketing but it doesn't mean you can't make a decent income, passive and reliable and still be happy. After all happy is the goal no?
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    David Neale

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
      Originally Posted by Campaignmarket View Post

      Paul Barrs - I just saw your introduction to MSU 2.0 - Looks like very powerful stuff! Is your program comparable to the IIU?
      Some great ideas in all that guys. Nice.

      Not sure that Rocket needs more 'ideas' or even 'idea direction'. I believe he needs SKILLS. The Warrior Forum is full of people with bunches of ideas, but it it those who combine those ideas with skills that make the money. Hence my suggestion above.

      Campaignmarket, in regard to your question, I'm not familiar with IIU as an acronym... when I did a search it gave me the International Islamic University, lol, pretty sure that's NOT what you were talking about

      Paul
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      **********
      It's Simple... I don't "sell" IM anymore, but still do lots of YouTube Videos
      **********
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  • Profile picture of the author CK Pittman
    You must align whatever you choose to do with your core values and morals. If it doesn't line up... DON'T DO IT! Listen, whatever occupation you have in life, working for yourself or for others, it isn't about SELLING per se... View it this way... You are simply PROVIDING SOLUTIONS... You're helping people. Everyday people are simply looking for solutions. From food, to gasoline, to homes, to cars, to music, to sports, to health, ect. Just find out where you fit, and start providing solutions. Help others, because money is simply exchanging value and the more value you provide the more money you will make. It's just a natural by-product of providing a valuable solution to someone in need. There are people who need what you have to offer right now. They are waiting on you. Help yourself, by helping them. Best of luck to you! CK
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  • Profile picture of the author RocketSmart
    Thanks for all the advice guys, very much appreciated.

    Definately think this is an interesting take on the 'issues with success', rather than it being a case of 'help me, what do I do?' it's more about 'help me how should I think psychologically?'.

    Some food for thought in this thread.

    Thanks again!

    Rocket
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