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you naughty little man

by .X.
26 replies
I can't name names. And of course it's always
"possible" a crooked employee is involved, or
a site has been hacked. But here's the deal -

1. I'm testing an affiliate link through Clickbank
tracking. It takes me to the sales letter.

2. I click the order button, and I get an optin
page. I opt-in.

3. At the bottom of the order page, because
I always check these things, there it is - my
affiliate link.

It's all good, right?

Wrong.

I run a second test (which I don't normally do).

I enter my email again, I'm denied by Aweber -
I'm already on the list. Kind of weird? Why not
send me to the order page? You just blocked me
in the middle of ordering?

So I enter a second email address and what
do I see? Not MY affiliate link.

I test this several times (4 to be exact), and
it happens each time -

I place my affiliate link, it's there - then I come
back without the affiliate link and it's gone, replaced
on return.

He (or they, or some grey ghost) is overwriting
the affiliate link for all return visits, either direct
type in or from email.

Unless the visitor buys on that first visit, the
affiliate will be overwritten by something in
the merchant system.

So, if you check links - and you should - check
'em twice. With the opt-in in between he's probably
been running this sham for quite some time
without anyone noticing.

And yes, he is a Warrior.

All the best to you all - X
#affiliate #clickbank #man #naughty #rip off
  • Profile picture of the author fin
    I also know of a huge warrior that does this.

    Sickening.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
    And this is just one reason why I don't promote products with an opt-in before the sale is complete.
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  • Profile picture of the author warrior2008
    We hear stuff like this all of the time around here. You NEED to them respectfully so report it to Clickbank. I am on the phone with them weekly in meetings.

    Thanks for the 411 though.

    Cheers,

    Warrior2008
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    I don't think this is uncommon. As soon as the buyer visits via anything except an affiliate link the affiliate referral is canceled. There have been several programs I stopped promoting for this reason. Gotta remember affiliates and merchants are not necessarily partners working toward a common goal.

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by .X. View Post

    2. I click the order button, and I get an optin
    page.
    Then don't promote the product.

    This is an absolute no-brainer, surely?

    Would You Promote a ClickBank Product with an Opt-in
    Is clickbank Still converting these days?
    How Do CB Affiliates Feel About Opt-ins on Sales Pages?
    Selecting the product
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    Would it help if the affiliate network also tracked by IP internally which could not be overwritten?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

      Would it help if the affiliate network also tracked by IP internally which could not be overwritten?
      That would be one option, but it's not the one ClickBank (or many other affiliate networks) choose to use.

      One of the many problems with that method is that it can produce some strikingly "unfair" results, particularly in cases where affiliates have done an enormous amount of work to build a trust-based, credibility-based relationship with a prospective customer, over many weeks or months but can never actually earn a commission at all, on a sale to that person, simply because some other affiliate, a long time earlier, who did nothing at all, and whom the customer - perhaps wisely - didn't trust, managed to "show them the sales page". And a large number of other "anomalies" too.
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      • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
        Hmm....

        Our network tracks by IP, Cookie, Email, affiliate linked coupons, and we have a system for detecting affiliate theft and rewarding the last legitimate affiliate (screwing thieves).

        We have found that this approach ensures more accurate tracking for the affiliates which = higher conversions than they received for the same offers on clickbank.

        I wouldn't trust an affiliate network, or affiliate program, that does not offer at the least an additional layer of IP tracking.

        You are right that many affiliate systems have not kept up with the times and added better tracking including IP layers. This is one of many reasons not to use them.

        But my question was for .X. Because I was curious of their opinion in this case if they feel that internal IP tracking by the affiliate network could contribute to stopping the offer owner from this trickery?

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        That would be one option, but it's not the one ClickBank (or many other affiliate networks) choose to use.

        One of the many problems with that method is that it can produce some strikingly "unfair" results, particularly in cases where affiliates have done an enormous amount of work to build a trust-based, credibility-based relationship with a prospective customer, over many weeks or months but can never actually earn a commission at all, on a sale to that person, simply because some other affiliate, a long time earlier, who did nothing at all, and whom the customer - perhaps wisely - didn't trust, managed to "show them the sales page". And a large number of other "anomalies" too.
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        • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
          Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

          Hmm....

          Our network tracks by IP, Cookie, Email, affiliate linked coupons, and we have a system for detecting affiliate theft and rewarding the last legitimate affiliate (screwing thieves).

          We have found that this approach ensures more accurate tracking for the affiliates which = higher conversions than they received for the same offers on clickbank.

          I wouldn't trust an affiliate network, or affiliate program, that does not offer at the least an additional layer of IP tracking.

          You are right that many affiliate systems have not kept up with the times and added better tracking including IP layers. This is one of many reasons not to use them.

          But my question was for .X. Because I was curious of their opinion in this case if they feel that internal IP tracking by the affiliate network could contribute to stopping the offer owner from this trickery?
          Knew an ad was coming as soon as I read your other post.

          As to it stopping it, no it couldn't. There are ways merchants can defeat them. Not to mention when sellers are using an in house or 3rd party system that doesnt take payments, they can cheat the affiliate a lot easier. You know, since they can void sales, cancel affiliates, etc. Or they could simply send them to another payment gateway.

          A seller who wants to cheat affiliates will. No matter how nice you constantly paint the IP tacking of your system.

          Garrie
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    • Profile picture of the author .X.
      LOL! Josh, I love that you are the most
      unrelenting promoter of your services.

      Serious. Occasionally it's annoying -
      but really, I love the tenacity.

      And, if only, Nanacast was used as widely
      as Clickbank I'd be happy to do business
      your way.


      Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

      Would it help if the affiliate network also tracked by IP internally which could not be overwritten?
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  • Profile picture of the author Theeban
    Yes, I had noticed this kind of stuff with one of the clickbank proudct and I stopped spending my time on that product, and even I am afraid to invest my time on clickbank due to these kind of stuffs.
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    • Profile picture of the author rajivkumar900
      my case is bit different but helpful for other warriors..
      I build one website in 2009 and ranked it on first page, since than it was working on autopilot i never touch it again, recently i checked one of product on that site and found, the vendor has changed his buy now button itself, it suppose to be a clickbank buy now button and vendor move to JVzoo and without giving any notification to affiliates who were bringing sales for him.. I know i was lazy in this case who didnt check site for long time but if vendor had good intention he could have mail existing affiliates to change affiliate links.

      my mistake but still a good lesson to open eyes...:p
      Rajiv
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

        Some merchants overwrite cookies on the salespage. Guess folks should just stop promoting crooked affiliate programs altogether. It's an absolute no-brainer, surely.
        There you go, Cat. Fixed your typo...
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by rajivkumar900 View Post

        my case is bit different but helpful for other warriors..
        I build one website in 2009 and ranked it on first page, since than it was working on autopilot i never touch it again, recently i checked one of product on that site and found, the vendor has changed his buy now button itself, it suppose to be a clickbank buy now button and vendor move to JVzoo and without giving any notification to affiliates who were bringing sales for him.. I know i was lazy in this case who didnt check site for long time but if vendor had good intention he could have mail existing affiliates to change affiliate links.

        my mistake but still a good lesson to open eyes...:p
        Rajiv
        Ooh, tricky little bas****s aren't they? I subscribe to Alexa's criteria for picking products to promote personally, with a few modifications of my own. I follow the whole avoiding leaks thing to a "t" though, and haven't had any problems thus far.

        The best way to prevent issues is to not put yourself in a position to fall victim to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author mizcash
    So dishonest and is likely going on for quite some time. This person should be called out or someone send a private message asking him to cease and decease. Really naughty
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    My take away from all this is to consistently check all the affiliate links that I'm using when I promote. Admittedly, I've been lax on this area over the past year or so. Thanks for the reminder .X.

    Secondly, if any Warrior is doing this on the Warrior forum, please use the "report post" button and report their a$$es! This way the mods can take action, just make you provide pertinent details that will aid in their decision.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Fenner
    Hi
    I did not know of this...

    Thanks for the info

    Peace Barry
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    Garrie,

    You are right. Inherently dishonest vendors cannot be stopped... just more easily exposed by making it harder for them to cheat.

    Providing better tracking systems, that combine multiple tracking methods, IS a way to treat affiliates more fairly :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    Originally Posted by .X. View Post

    I place my affiliate link, it's there - then I come
    back without the affiliate link and it's gone, replaced
    on return.

    He (or they, or some grey ghost) is overwriting
    the affiliate link for all return visits, either direct
    type in or from email.
    Is the affiliate ID replaced with another ID or is it "None"?


    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Providing better tracking systems, that combine multiple tracking methods, IS a way to treat affiliates more fairly :-)
    I agree there. For honest sellers, its a benefit to them and the affiliate.
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