A Message To: "Top WSO Sellers Who Never Contribute To This Forum"

Its a nice feeling to get something of your chest.

I make sure I contribute to the forum, and help others aswell as my WSO's.


I'm sure those top WSO sellers are busy, counting their money or something.

So am actually I, but i still make time to contribute

Yes, we've all noticed these WSO sellers I think. They are the guys you only hear from when they have something to sell on the forum. I guess they would argue they don't have the time to sit around posting on the forums but it can't always be about money... well at least it's not in my business. I genuinely want to help others and for that reason I try and make some time most days to come on here for 15 - 20 minutes and answer any questions I can. It's not much to ask really.

There are other people who claim to want to help people yet even when they give away free information, it's always done in a way that is directly or indirectly designed to benefit their bottom line. To me that's not really someone who genuinely cares and wants to help people. This forum has given some people a start in this business they could never have gotten elsewhere... and I do feel some of those guys take it for granted. If they didn't you would expect to see them around the forum unselfishly helping other marketers from time to time.

It's a time thing which means there's not too much of it

One just can't always freely contribute as much as one might like because resources are precious and at the end of the day everything can't just be about online marketing otherwise known as "business" - meaning if there's 8 work hours in a day all should probably be just about spent on directly profiting.

I hear what you're saying, but if you look around there's just such an obscene amount of great information in abundance well within reach, so top WSO sellers shouldn't be right in your cross hairs

I think the main point is if they are benefitting and profitting so much off of our community. Shouldn't they actually be a part of it? It really is in everyone's best interest.




Posted from Warriorforum.com App for Android

There certainly is truth in what you are saying. Not only that if you happen to be on their email list the only time they email you is if they are selling 'their' product or selling a product as an affiliate. Ugh......

I'll play the devil's advocate here. It seems to me that the people who you're talking about are making so much money that they see it as a waste of time to spend time in the forum reading and replying to posts. They probably expect that doing so would not yield them any more money that what they're already making, or if it did, it would be such a small percentage relative to their income that it wouldn't be worth their time.

In anything, you should get paid what you feel your time is worth. Evidently they feel that they would not be paid what their time is worth by spending time in the forum (via any extra money to be made from their WSO's).

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with this perspective, but it does make sense in my opinion.

I don't know....maybe I'm silly, but when I sell a plant my customers don't expect me to go hang out in their window & chat with them while they water it each week, just because they paid me. When we buy anything at the store, we don't always expect there to be a representative from the company of the product we are buying there...though it is nice when they show up with free samples I probably haven't been here long enough to feel hurt, I suppose. Maybe that will come later

/devils advocate mode/
Well they could argue their WSO's / products are actually the contributions they make.
The whole forums spins around making money, so do pretty much all of the product offers, then their support on the forum is their contribution...

Also a reason why many people come here (I think) is exactly those products and special offers of those top sellers isn't it?
/devils mode off

You got a point but I think you're making it a bit too much black & white..

Nobody owes you anything. People sell stuff on here because they know they can make easy money off a bunch of noobs. When you come on here and tell people they should give back to the community it just sounds like your a desperate person who wants a piece of the pie.

There is no secret knowledge that is going to make you successful. Hard work makes you successful. You already have all the knowledge you could possibly want on these forums and around the internet. It's nobody elses fault that you can't utilize the free information you are given to make money online. Don't sit here and ask for a hand out because you do nothing but sit on here waiting for free information thats going to make you rich to roll by. That's not how you become successful online so don't blame or ask for hand outs.

I wonder why WF members buy WSOs from people that don't contribute?

Everyone sees value in in different ways...

Some of these "top sellers" probably think they products they are releasing is value enough to the community even though people gotta pay for it... And in some cases that might be true...

But I'm with the OP, I was always brought up with the "give and you shall receive" mindset which is something I try and live by, not just in forums, but life in general.

That being said, everyones' different, the sellers who'll last and continue to make the $$ here are those who contribute...

-Matt

Hey Kal,

I can understand your perspective and as someone who's posted more than most and rarely runs WSOs, I can certainly relate to your perspective...... However.....

This forum is not just a community now. It is a marketplace too.

It took me quite a while to adjust to this fact as I've made a lot of friends and personally met hundreds of this forums members.

The fact of the matter is - the WSO section is no longer the 'special' section that it was and there are a LOT of people who struggle to make money outside this forum but know that if they just keep looking at what's selling and writing "attractive" sales copy - they can always sell something to some Warriors.

In the old days I would have considered this to be pretty low because it's scraping the barrel as far as creating something new and useful goes, and there have been cases where they're copying the work of other Warrriors and rehashing existing material just to have 'something' to sell.

But here's the rub.

There are also a LOT of new people finding this forum all the time and they have no idea who's really an expert and who's just rewriting existing material - but they do benefit from the information whoever they got it from, and if that's the case then it's only spectators that get offended by what's happened (or the original product creator if it was copied).

I don't think that someone coming here with a great product or service to sell has a duty to spend time chatting in the main forum. In fact, if they specialise in something (graphics, programming etc.) then maybe it is better for everyone if they spend their time doing what they love and creating cool stuff for others.

I think it's a bit naive to expect that everyone who wants to use the WSO marketplace is also going to want to chat in the forum and the 2 things are not necessarily related. If you create an obviously useful program that saves me time and does something I already do even better - I don't really care how much you chat in the forum. If you're selling your expertise in the form of information products then yes, I'd certainly care whether I thought you knew your stuff or not before buying from you.

There's no broad brush that covers what's right and wrong here - there are plenty of different reasons for buying, selling and chatting.

Rather than try to shame others into doing what YOU think is right - why not just worry about what YOU are doing and leave others to do what's right for them?

Andy

I agree with everyone on this thread who has voted for the participation of top WSO sellers in the forum where they are so successful.

One good reason to do this is that it keeps you human, both personally and to your customers as well. Another good reason is that it shows you really give a flying f * u * c * k (assuming you do...) about other people.

Not everyone cares. Some only care about how much money they can make and those people tend to be rather ruthless in the pursuit of said wealth. I have little interest in doing business with anyone like that, myself.

Great thing about all this....is that even if someone who doesn't give back to the community is selling a really great WSO, you will be able to find someone else who DOES give back to the forum who is ALSO selling a WSO on a similar subject or in the same niche. I know where I'd spend my money!

I don't really understand the point of this thread. I post a fair amount on the forum (probably more than is entirely healthy for me) because I like to but I don't get how that reflects on the products I sell.

Do my Wordpress plugins suddenly become more effective because I spend time on the main forum?

If someone is buying my stuff I want it to be because they get more value out of the purchase than the monetary value I placed on it not because of some weird sense of obligation from "knowing me" on the forum.

And what if I were to stop posting tomorrow? Do my plugins suddenly stop working?

Seems a bit of a stretch to me. I'd focus on buying things where you get value from the purchase rather than some perceived value in the person selling it.

I think their is no left or right, ie they chose not to participate, and it is what it is, we try and put meaning to the fact why they don't but they just don't, now their is a huge difference between being active and help full in the forum, active would be their ability to make posts on the forum (you can find people on odesk that will do that for you for $2.00 a day),

Being help full would require time and effort. So which one are you looking for? as if your looking for being helpful then your asking for information that will aid your business (now in their eyes they have all ready given that, wso) and if your looking for activity then you have some kind of thought that these top sellers should waste their time.

Final note, when buying a wso one of the things I personally look at is how many times they have been thanked but not brought one for the last 5 months. Also people have to understand what wso offer is time saving, as if you was to read every post here, test the theory in practice , test the results you would come to the blue print they are trying to sell.

Every now and then I see a post where a successful marketer here gets totally toasted for voicing their opinion. Often because it's contrary to popular beliefs and based on their experience in the trenches.

If that was me... eventually I'd just go f*** it and stop posting.

Hi Kal,

Although I would love to see participation from top wso sellers(or anyone for that matter) in the forum here.

I would have disagree with you on this matter(with respect of course)

They have no obligations whatsoever to contribute to this forum. It is not like they are owing the forum anything simply because they sell alot of WSOs .

Also alot of this wso sellers are mostly busy with the amount of PM and emails they receive. In fact I would personally be upset as a customer if my pm is not answered and they are still actively posting on the forums.

-Brandon

They can do whatever they want... I could care less.

All I know is there have been people on this forum who have helped me over the years out of the blue. Without them, I wouldn't be a marketer at all today.

Before the forum, I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off clueless about what really works online.

When I joined Warrior Forum, I started studying copywriting and started learning product creation, Listbuilding, arfiliate marketing, and started getting some study buddies and jv partners.

I even got my first full time marketing job from someone I met on this forum and relocated to work in his office for a while.

To others this site may just be a cash cow, but for me, it's where I really got going.

So naturally I'm more inclined to help out a few people here in the threads.

It may not be like that for the people you're mentioning.

They may not feel that drive to give back.

Their background could be totally different than mine.

So I don't blame them really.

A lot of fantastic, very valuable advice comes from people who have nothing to sell and nothing to gain.

I'm grateful for all well meaning advice whether it is a super dooper top WSO bod or all the good people who take the time and trouble to drop by and help.

My comments above may have seemed like I was having a go at these people who choose not to participate. Not the case at all -- they are more than entitled to do what they want, and they will. My only point is that I believe it tells you quite a bit about the type of person they are though. Willing to help when money is involved, a lot less forthcoming when it is not.

While I agree with the OP's thoughts, I also don't think they are obligated to give back. I know exactly which "Top WSO Sellers" that are being referred to. Sadly, when I was all shiney new to this forum, I purchased a couple of those WSO's, and quickly learned my lesson.
Now just to be fair, I once PM'd a well respected WR member once (they're actually on this thread!), and they never got back to me. Maybe I was out of line PM-ing, don't know. Perhaps, they were just too busy and my message got overlooked. Point is, you just never know. I didn't take it personally, well, after a few days of being butt hurt over it, :rolleyes:.
All in all, this forum is top of the line! The few stinkers in here are just that, and it doesn't take long for a person to "sniff" them out!
And to those of us that are still learning, the one's that do contribute, thank you for all that you do! It does make a difference!

Genuinely successful people don't have the time to spend hours a day posting on a forum trying to cultivate a successful persona for mugs to buy rubbish from.

Buy on quality of product not who you think the seller is.

And a lot of the people who are posting a lot with 'advice' are just flying their sig. Can be funny to look their own sites up and see what they are doing compared to what they are posting...

I hope you buy my wso :p

So, basically what you're saying is these top wso sellers, which I assume means they sell the most and make the most money, are doing it all wrong and should do it your way instead if they want to sell anything? Who can argue with such logic? Sounds to me like someone is a little jealous.

The people you are addressing this too won't read it. They never leave the WSO forum. Doesn't bother me how people choose to do business. Personally, I'm not likely to notice their WSOs. The majority of the ones I buy are from signatures of people I like around here.

No one mentioned that one must contribute for their product to be good.
Infact it is very irrelevant to propose that.
Your not obligated by any means to participate
So you won't be looked upon as selfish. It's a reflection of who really are.
Don't tell me your here to help because based on the fact your clearly not.

Yes it is a marketplace that strives off of a community.
If you are selling to the community shouldn't you be a part of it?
Go sell on eBay or amazon and let's see how well you do, yeah?

If a seller comes out of nowhere and offers an amazing product,that's great!
If the same seller decided to base their entire business on:

1- Launching wso after wso like clockwork
2- cheap low quality...no wonder why?
3 -Refunds rate through the roof
4-Never contribute Never.

Then to me It's a shallow practice and perhaps selfish.
And that's the message. I hope more will be aware.

If their products work, and help people make more money, is that not a direct contribution to the membership?

If the money they spend on advertising pays the bills to keep the forum up and running, does that not contribute?

If they offer examples of people making honest money in this business, does that not contribute?

The community aren't giving them an advert and receiving nothing in return. It costs money to run an WSO. They give money and they receive the chance to run their ad.

As for how well it works - there are a lot of people with big lists and no forum posts what-so-ever, doing extremely well.

If you have no reach aside from your WSO then it is better to build your reputation and use the forum itself to build trust and drive traffic (through your sig by being helpful). However, if you have the traffic sorted, the offer is good and you just want a place to run your sales-page where customers can leave feedback, there is nothing wrong with that.

The only problem some people have, is seeing the results of someone with a huge list making their first post as an WSO and believing the results are typical.

Creating products is a contribution.

If people thought the products weren't providing value, they wouldn't be spending money on them, no?

I don't have a problem with WSO sellers not actively participating in the chat part of this forum. Here's why:

1. They are contributing monetarily. It takes money to run this forum and they contribute to that by paying fees to Allen.

2. Every once in a while, there are some big dog marketers that pop in and drop a jewel on us at a very low price. These guys are busy building their businesses and don't have time to chat. They contribute by delivering something a lot of us want at a low price.

3. I don't believe in the "I have 5,000 posts so my product should get more attention". The WSO section is a marketplace and the cream rises to the top. It doesn't matter how many times somebody clicked the thanks button when you gave them the URL to Aweber. If your product is good and you have taken the steps to get the word out there, you will make money selling it.

I am with you on this, but the reason many have stuff to sell is they don't get involved in other peoples agendas and instead focus on their own task and goals, taking action and getting things done.

As I say though giving a little time now and again to post would be great to see though and would say so much more about them.

Makes me laugh people who concern themselves with the business of other people, that's their choice, their under absolutely no obligation to do so. If you want to do that, great, but that's your choice.

I don't care about forum participation but at least support your product.

Look. Nobody...no company, no seller, nobody...owes you or anyone else anything. I don't see Amazon or ClickBank over here contributing, but you people are promoting their crap here 24/7.

Should they not contribute something to this forum for all the money you goobers have made them?

Sellers sell. I'd much rather have a seller just sell me something that actually works and that makes a difference instead of kissing my ass and trying to cater to my dumb questions on this forum.

I think Andy Fletcher is on point with his response.If someone have a wso and it seem like it will help me i don't care if they post i never look at there post but what they offer

Kal Sallam, i get your point.

However, how many things do you buy where the owner or creator actually has personal interactions the way you are asking wso sellers to?

I realize that for many if not most of the wso sellers, they are the "brand" which does make it a little different. But they are also producing a commodity that in many cases people want to buy.

if i need web hosting or an autoresponder service, i go looking for a solution to my needs. I don't look for the owner who is posting the most in a forum.

Money comes and goes life is too short and no matter how much you make you cant be entirely happy if you don't contribute back. Thing about it is once you are gone someone else will spend it, but you teach someone something and your legacy will be passed down from one generation to the next.

The Warrior Forum has outgrown its "forum" or "community" beginnings to move to a "marketplace" nature. As a result, those top WSO-sellers treat it as a place to do business, not as a place of social interaction.

Nothing wrong with that in my book.

As I thought more about this topic, I sort of realized something...

Has anyone ever written fan mail to their favorite actor or musician? If so, did you ever hear back from them...? Probably not, right?

I guess that probably doesn't mean that they don't appreciate you as a fan...it just means that they get a TON of letters on a daily basis and couldn't answer each one individually even if they wanted to. It's just unrealistic.

Now, that person may have been very responsive when they were still up and coming. But at a certain point, it just becomes out of scope for them.

Obviously the example is a bit of a stretch, but still....

I was thinking for a moment that I should support the message in the OP that top wso sellers should even contribute to the forum, but no, I won't.

The only point I agree with is that 'it looks bad'. But only IF you care about them contributing.

To my opinion, if they provide really good products that so many people are willing to buy, that's good enough to me. I mean if they provide GOOD products at a wso price (low price) why should I complain? Those guys are already useful.

We are talking about two different kinds of people - there are contributors at heart and there are sellers at heart. One of the main reasons why some guys become top sellers is beacause they are sellers at heart, they function that way even when they sleep. They are not 'nice guys' (unless acting 'nice guy' would help them sell more), but as long as they are not cheating and selling crap, I see no reason to call them.

At my prices it takes an hour or two a day to hit my needed income, so I have time to kill lol. Plus I do other productive stuff while posting, doesn't exactly take 110% focus :rolleyes:.

I"m sure this will make me unpopular, but you need to consider the product creators stand point too.

Money is of course object #1... and if you think that's wrong - marketing isn't for you.

But that's not really what's stopping people from writing big long helpful posts. Those posts DO equate to sales down the road, so there is a benefit to doing them.

The issue is that most truly helpful posts get pushed off the first page at break neck speed because 30 people are "what's the best WP plug in to have on my blog", "how can I make $10k by this weekend with no investment" and the dozens of other crap posts that are repeated daily.

If you're going to take issue, do it with the people who won't take a couple minutes to see if someone else has asked a similiar question to theirs (before they post it).... not the WSO product creators.

Great post! :-)

Yes it's definitely a timing thing also - there has to be a balance of being on Forums learning, contributing, helping, developing and actually being out there doing the business.

I try to balance it though it can be tricky because I find myself getting addicted to the Warrior Forum and over the years that's exactly what I've cautioned my coaching students about! :-)

But totally with you - it's a GIVERS' GAIN philosophy that will see the best business people win out at the end of the day. You can't just take.

On this note, anyone feel free to PM me and I'll give you my $15.99, 50,000 word book for free. There you go - I did it! ;-)

Steve Jobs created a really nice phone. I didn't buy it because I was upset at his lack of participation in the iPhone forums. Phooey...

I think from now on, sellers of WSOs on WF need to specify how many forum posts their product comes with so that everyone knows what they are paying for & no one will feel swindled. They can sell it as a forum posts/product bundle

I personally think that if a WSO seller is selling things (scripts / software etc) that add value to warriors, that's more than enough (some names are coming to my mind) and don't see why we should ask for more.

Their role is that. Anything else will be surely welcome but without them, things would not be the same. Just my 2 cents

Kal sallam you are very right. I have also seen many users on WF who have had so much success with this forum by their WSO, and they don't even take a few minutes to try and contribute to the forums. It's as if they are using this forums just for their sake and don't have any other purpose then "Sell my WSO, make money". Honestly, in my personal perceptive, I would have a much higher chance of purchasing something from someone who has given time to this forum, who has been contributing information, and who does not only use this forums just for the sake of making money. I do quite frankly understand that's the main reason of them to come here, but really? Come on, these forums are making you a living, try to at least spend a few minutes helping people out here and there. These are just my thoughts on this whole situation.

if you find yourself buying WSOs from these folks, you're
only justifying what they already believe: they don't have
to contribute. They can just post an interesting WSO, then
watch the money pour in. Eventually, they'll be found out...Maybe.

Vince aka makingiants

Wow! What a lot of responses and I'm sure mine may get lost amongst all the others but I just wanted to call it how I see it.

Think about it this way. I've seen people with 1 post, 5 posts, etc. launch WSOs and make 1000s of sales on just one WSO, not to mention their follow-ups. I am not exaggerating either!

Unless it's made a requirement to not post a WSO unless you have xxx amount of posts, I don't see that changing. Some will contribute in the regular forum, some won't.

But when someone comes in and with affiliates behind their WSO launch, makes 1000s of sales and only has 5 posts on the main forum, what motivation do they have to go and make a bunch of posts on the regular forum?

The only motivation would be if they're bored and/or want to chat for fun. Or to help others, as was the motivation for this thread. But really, I think it's much ado about nothing and just a bunch of opinions unless the man in charge decides to change something.

@tpw - Too bad the "buy me a beer" button's gone...

I'm too busy making products that Warriors use to make money.

I am rather of the opinion that being a top WSO seller is contributing to the forum.

In the first Instance I already feel that this place is saturated and Over crowded.

I can see many people launching their own WSO'S and having tons and tons of reviews but actually the methods dont simply work or we are being fooled.

A few Internet marketers might just come out and give testimonials on their friends WSO.

I have see a Whole gang literally flooding a thread with Testimonials and later on the product actually was not upto the expectations considering it was being promoted by those Gurus !!

Apart from this, yes we dont see most Internet marketers coming over here and engaging in conversations and
their GF says- "Honey, we need to pay this month's Bills",
The person sits and rehashes a old stuff in 45 miutes, asks his friends to promote the product and Voila a Brand New WSO Launch.

Honestly, they should interact more and more here.

Will R is someone I have seen many times engaging with people.

Rest of them, I cant actually say.

This is how I see it which is why I couldn't personally make a thread like this. Although this is not the objective reality of things, just because its possible, I'm not complaining.

Business man starts WSO, say for a coaching program. Customers pay, he spends time helping them by coaching them.

Say that same man listened to this thread, and came on these forums to post, he is now taking away time that could have been spent HELPING PAYING CUSTOMERS that much more. If you bought that WSO, would you REALLY want your guru to come to the forums to help strangers?

So apart of me wonders, maybe there are some people selling wsos, who are putting a lot of time on customer service, and would rather devote more time to helping their customers than helping strangers who don't seem as interested in what they have to sell.

Other guys however sell things and have no customer service at all. No help on the side. Just sell **** and run. Its those types I don't respect. But just because the first possibility exists, I can't get too hung up about it. I have no idea how these guys ACTUALLY spend their time, so who does that make me to comment about it?

-Red

I always wondered that. if they are so knowledgeable then they should contribute some posts too. They shouldnt sell everything. It seems more like that they are salesman of some sort.

Many people are only in it for the money. They are not interested in making freinds contacting people or commenting on what they think are "senseless Forums". They are however the first to monetize on those forums. They see the benefits but not the obligation or responsability to interact or communicate with their customers and colleges. Although these people will make money they will in the ebd not be the leaders and decision makers of the group. A groups leaders are those who have their finger in the pulse and can feel what others are feeling, think what others are thinking and have impathy because they really care and know where you are coming from.

The world is full of both of these types of people those who ask and listen and those who do not. Apple is growing so fast because they listen... well most of the time, and they know what people want and will use and be willing to pay for. I know I own almost everything they have ever put out.

Only you can decide to which you will be a part of. I believe in most cases the listeners will win in the end.

This is only my opinion.

In response to the OP....

I love this place and I've seen it grow over the years. We have a great marketplace where sellers can come along and sell their wares, and the number of people who list their products for sale has multiplied over the years.

In the WF Seller partnership, the main beneficiary has always been the seller because of the huge popularity of the forum. Product/service owners take advantage of the thousands of enthusiastic buyers that frequent WF.

But they don't necessarily have the same mindset as those of us who have spent hours on end learning from here have. For them it's just a matter of using a highly trafficked marketplace to their benefit.

If these WSO sellers don't choose to contribute voluntarily to the forum discussions, that's their prerogative. The fact that they are selling their products here shows their confidence in the Warrior Forum and we must respect that.

I got to admit my respect for CDarkLock right now is higher than anyone else on this forum.

You can also tell how polished he really is just by his responses in this thread. Best of luck on your next product release man I want to see you make MORE than $15 grand. You definitely deserve it.

-Red

I think it's just a 'norm' or a 'something that's happening in unison' that you need to give to get. It's a voluntary act to contribute or not to contribute, regardless if you're earning big or not, and regardless if you have a WSO or not.

In all fairness, we can't demand someone to check the Main Internet Marketing forum and answer at least 10 posts a day just because we're seeing the WSO owner earning a lot. If that WSOer would like to contribute to the community by answering posts or questions, then, that's a great act of kindness of 'making' the time to contribute despite of the WSOers busy activities. If the WSOer can't find the time to contribute, neither did we lose a thing nor did it harm us a bit.

We can't control the un-controllable. We can only control what we own. We don't control the minds of WSOers but we control ourselves, attitude, mentality, perception, and ability to find other resources when the ones we are expecting to contribute do not.

WSOers are not obliged to contribute. I am not a WSOer and yet 95% of my posts are not responses for inquiries made on our thread in the WFH section for our writing services. We cannot control others. We can control ourselves.