A Message To: "Top WSO Sellers Who Never Contribute To This Forum"

169 replies
My whole life I was taught that:
If you receive something you have to give something back
If you don't well.... you might end up being looked at as shallow and maybe selfish.

In Business you also hear it quite often: Give to Get.
The model works well and it makes me feel better about myself.
(not just in for the money) no watta I mean?

Now recently it caught my attention that there is a pretty good number of
Top WSO Sellers who don't contribute to the forum At All!
Not even get involved in any discussions or anything Nothing Nada Zero Zilch...

I am not going to mention any names, though I would love too but for obvious
reasons, Nah... You can however, Look at the top wso sellers right now and
see if they ever posted here 10 minutes and you will find one or two.lol.

The only time I hear from them is when they are launching the newest killer wso.
And how great it is and why I must buy it lol..What a huge turn off... Ridiculous.

If I happen to purchase a WSO, it is usually from someone I Know, and usually I
Know the wso seller because I have seen them contribute here for free. yeah?

How do you expect me to know & trust you when I have never
seen you give back to the forum? I wouldn't really buy your stuff.
but that's just me. Maybe someone else would.But,
It is noticeable what your doing and it looks bad, it looks really bad.

If a big part of your business model relies heavily on Launching wso after wso,
or maybe your entire business depends solely on wsos :rolleyes:
then, I would get involved a little show appreciation, (just a little maybe once a month?)
and give back to who's paying me.yeah?

I can almost guarantee you that they won't show up to this threat which will help illustrate
my point even further. If they do then to me it would be a miracle...yeah that's how bad it is!

Kal.


P.S. Some wso sellers are guilty of this behavior not all, just wanted to make this
Clear.
#message
  • Profile picture of the author Matt Morgan
    Its a nice feeling to get something of your chest.

    I make sure I contribute to the forum, and help others aswell as my WSO's.


    I'm sure those top WSO sellers are busy, counting their money or something.

    So am actually I, but i still make time to contribute
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Mensah
      Originally Posted by Matt Morgan View Post

      Its a nice feeling to get something of your chest.

      I make sure I contribute to the forum, and help others aswell as my WSO's.


      I'm sure those top WSO sellers are busy, counting their money or something.

      So am actually I, but i still make time to contribute
      Maybe you don't have as much money as they do to count Matt :p Naw just playing I do agree they should definately take even 5 minutes to come and chat on the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Yes, we've all noticed these WSO sellers I think. They are the guys you only hear from when they have something to sell on the forum. I guess they would argue they don't have the time to sit around posting on the forums but it can't always be about money... well at least it's not in my business. I genuinely want to help others and for that reason I try and make some time most days to come on here for 15 - 20 minutes and answer any questions I can. It's not much to ask really.

    There are other people who claim to want to help people yet even when they give away free information, it's always done in a way that is directly or indirectly designed to benefit their bottom line. To me that's not really someone who genuinely cares and wants to help people. This forum has given some people a start in this business they could never have gotten elsewhere... and I do feel some of those guys take it for granted. If they didn't you would expect to see them around the forum unselfishly helping other marketers from time to time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Yes, we've all noticed these WSO sellers I think. They are the guys you only hear from when they have something to sell on the forum. I guess they would argue they don't have the time to sit around posting on the forums but it can't always be about money... well at least it's not in my business. I genuinely want to help others and for that reason I try and make some time most days to come on here for 15 - 20 minutes and answer any questions I can. It's not much to ask really.
      Exactly Will Thank you!, and your one of those I look up to.
      Even once every blue moon would be okay.
      Its good that you say we've all noticed them, so it;s not like they are getting away with it.

      Time then would never be a factor...if you take breaks you can post on the forum.
      Actually I'm posting this on my break..my fun time you know.
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    • Profile picture of the author fedor50
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Yes, we've all noticed these WSO sellers I think. They are the guys you only hear from when they have something to sell on the forum. I guess they would argue they don't have the time to sit around posting on the forums but it can't always be about money... well at least it's not in my business. I genuinely want to help others and for that reason I try and make some time most days to come on here for 15 - 20 minutes and answer any questions I can. It's not much to ask really.

      There are other people who claim to want to help people yet even when they give away free information, it's always done in a way that is directly or indirectly designed to benefit their bottom line. To me that's not really someone who genuinely cares and wants to help people. This forum has given some people a start in this business they could never have gotten elsewhere... and I do feel some of those guys take it for granted. If they didn't you would expect to see them around the forum unselfishly helping other marketers from time to time.
      I have to agree with this post.I like people who try to genuiely offer value instead of seeking money
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  • Profile picture of the author J. Barry Mandel
    It's a time thing which means there's not too much of it

    One just can't always freely contribute as much as one might like because resources are precious and at the end of the day everything can't just be about online marketing otherwise known as "business" - meaning if there's 8 work hours in a day all should probably be just about spent on directly profiting.

    I hear what you're saying, but if you look around there's just such an obscene amount of great information in abundance well within reach, so top WSO sellers shouldn't be right in your cross hairs
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Justin Mandel View Post

      It's a time thing which means there's not too much of it
      No one is saying they should sit here every minute of the day... that would be silly. All we are saying is being an active and helpful member of the community you are profiting so greatly from would be nice. To be seen around the forum offering advice when it's not just about making money.

      When you don't see them doing it at all it almost feels as though they do not appreciate the opportunities this forum has given them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    Originally Posted by Justin Mandel

    I hear what you're saying, but if you look around there's just such an obscene amount of great information in abundance well within reach, so top WSO sellers shouldn't be right in your cross hairs
    I think the main point is if they are benefitting and profitting so much off of our community. Shouldn't they actually be a part of it? It really is in everyone's best interest.




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    • Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      I think the main point is if they are benefitting and profitting so much off of our community. Shouldn't they actually be a part of it? It really is in everyone's best interest.




      Posted from Warriorforum.com App for Android
      Off topic, but if there is a WarriorForum app for Android, is there one for iPhone? :confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
        Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

        Off topic, but if there is a WarriorForum app for Android, is there one for iPhone? :confused:
        I think so. But I'm not 100% sure. It's just an app that integrates with VBulletin and the guy made a bunch of apps for various sites (or so I think)... so it's not affiliated with WarriorForum... but it does work easier than trying to load the full site on my phone.
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        • Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

          I think so. But I'm not 100% sure. It's just an app that integrates with VBulletin and the guy made a bunch of apps for various sites (or so I think)... so it's not affiliated with WarriorForum... but it does work easier than trying to load the full site on my phone.
          Thank you. I'll see if I can find one.
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          • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
            Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

            Thank you. I'll see if I can find one.
            Sorry. Closest I could find was "Forum Runner" which is a forum app for the iPhone... but it doesn't have Warrior Forum currently.

            Maybe you can do like me and just get an Android phone in addition to your iPhone? lol
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            • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
              The world is made up of all sorts of people and the great thing is you get to choose which ones you want to associate with.




              I've since thought about this a bit more, and I have to say that I agree that this forum is a marketplace and a community. People pay money in here to market stuff, so they don't have to contribute in the rest of the forum, if they don't want to.

              If they don't contribute in the forum, but they release a kick-ass WSO that solves the problems of hundred's of marketers, that is still a contribution.

              Trying to get people to conform to your way of thinking is a losing battle. It really always is.
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            • Profile picture of the author Des Lau
              Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

              Sorry. Closest I could find was "Forum Runner" which is a forum app for the iPhone... but it doesn't have Warrior Forum currently.

              Maybe you can do like me and just get an Android phone in addition to your iPhone? lol
              I've got 'Warrior Forum Reader' app on my Android, it's a simple text display of all threads, been using it for a while now.

              Back on topic, you could argue that these top sellers do not have time to chit chat on discussions, which I can totally understand. Dealing with customers and emails is enough to flatten your tolerance for online conversation at the best of times so I'm sure they have their priorities.
              In saying that, it's too easy to forget your roots and what gave you a start, I think a little interaction with your market and customer base goes a long way
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      • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Jackson
        Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

        Off topic, but if there is a WarriorForum app for Android, is there one for iPhone? :confused:
        Yeah there is one on the Android but for the iPhone I haven't seen one in the app store
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    • Profile picture of the author onSubie
      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      I think the main point is if they are benefitting and profitting so much off of our community. Shouldn't they actually be a part of it? It really is in everyone's best interest.
      Well, they benefit because we are a target market and the WSO forum is a pool of suckers, but they do pay fees to list and bump their offers.

      It's not like every 1000 posts you get a free WSO listing or anything.

      I certainly take that into consideration when looking at WSO's, and favour people I "know" from the forums, but I don' begrudge the other sellers anything.

      All the information in their WSOs is already rehashed somewhere in the forum anyway. What more can they add?

      Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author Bret Ferguson
    There certainly is truth in what you are saying. Not only that if you happen to be on their email list the only time they email you is if they are selling 'their' product or selling a product as an affiliate. Ugh......
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  • Profile picture of the author The Link Broker
    I'll play the devil's advocate here. It seems to me that the people who you're talking about are making so much money that they see it as a waste of time to spend time in the forum reading and replying to posts. They probably expect that doing so would not yield them any more money that what they're already making, or if it did, it would be such a small percentage relative to their income that it wouldn't be worth their time.

    In anything, you should get paid what you feel your time is worth. Evidently they feel that they would not be paid what their time is worth by spending time in the forum (via any extra money to be made from their WSO's).

    I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with this perspective, but it does make sense in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
      Originally Posted by The Link Broker View Post


      I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with this perspective, but it does make sense in my opinion.
      How does it not make sense, I mean I don't see any reason whatsoever,
      Why one wouldn't appreciate what the community has gave them by
      Contributing every once in a while as a way of saying Thank You!
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  • Profile picture of the author misswahm
    I don't know....maybe I'm silly, but when I sell a plant my customers don't expect me to go hang out in their window & chat with them while they water it each week, just because they paid me. When we buy anything at the store, we don't always expect there to be a representative from the company of the product we are buying there...though it is nice when they show up with free samples I probably haven't been here long enough to feel hurt, I suppose. Maybe that will come later
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    • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
      Originally Posted by misswahm View Post

      I don't know....maybe I'm silly, but when I sell a plant my customers don't expect me to go hang out in their window & chat with them while they water it each week, just because they paid me. When we buy anything at the store, we don't always expect there to be a representative from the company of the product we are buying there...though it is nice when they show up with free samples I probably haven't been here long enough to feel hurt, I suppose. Maybe that will come later
      Maybe so but we aren't talking about a store. We are talking about a community... that just so happens to have a store inside it.

      Also I'll take it a bit further and call you out. Maybe you're right in the fact that the "plant seller" doesn't hang out with their "customers" but I will tell you some of the most successful shops (at least out by me on the East Coast) *DO* get involved with the community and at the very least the Chamber of Commerce (hence B2B networking opportunities).
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      • Profile picture of the author misswahm
        Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

        Maybe so but we aren't talking about a store. We are talking about a community... that just so happens to have a store inside it.

        Also I'll take it a bit further and call you out. Maybe you're right in the fact that the "plant seller" doesn't hang out with their "customers" but I will tell you some of the most successful shops (at least out by me on the East Coast) *DO* get involved with the community and at the very least the Chamber of Commerce (hence B2B networking opportunities).
        I see your point...side note...I only sell plants online. We haven't opened a brick & mortar location yet. We are actually planning a spa, family recreation & a reading room for customers (we have thousands of books...I was once an editor & I also worked for The Boston Globe & got freebies - not an editor there - for a while) my point being - I agree!

        But I've been sort of forcing myself to make friends online as of late...just because it doesn't come naturally to me. It's hard for me to make a connection when I'm not speaking to someone eye to eye, so I wonder if I'm not the only person with this problem? I'd much rather hang out with my "community" in person. Though, I guess you could say they chose this platform.

        Hurrumph...now I've gone and confused myself.
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        • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
          Originally Posted by misswahm View Post

          I see your point...side note...I only sell plants online. We haven't opened a brick & mortar location yet. We are actually planning a spa, family recreation & a reading room for customers (we have thousands of books...I was once an editor & I also worked for The Boston Globe & got freebies - not an editor there - for a while) my point being - I agree!

          But I've been sort of forcing myself to make friends online as of late...just because it doesn't come naturally to me. It's hard for me to make a connection when I'm not speaking to someone eye to eye, so I wonder if I'm not the only person with this problem? I'd much rather hang out with my "community" in person. Though, I guess you could say they chose this platform.

          Hurrumph...now I've gone and confused myself.
          You'll find that your community involvement isn't just beneficial to others but also to yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Link Broker
        Originally Posted by misswahm View Post

        I don't know....maybe I'm silly, but when I sell a plant my customers don't expect me to go hang out in their window & chat with them while they water it each week, just because they paid me. When we buy anything at the store, we don't always expect there to be a representative from the company of the product we are buying there...though it is nice when they show up with free samples I probably haven't been here long enough to feel hurt, I suppose. Maybe that will come later

        This is actually a great analogy and a great point. Well said.


        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        How does it not make sense, I mean I don't see any reason whatsoever,
        Why one wouldn't appreciate what the community has gave them by
        Contributing every once in a while as a way of saying Thank You!

        I didn't write that it doesn't make sense. Please re-read


        Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

        Maybe so but we aren't talking about a store. We are talking about a community... that just so happens to have a store inside it.

        Also I'll take it a bit further and call you out. Maybe you're right in the fact that the "plant seller" doesn't hang out with their "customers" but I will tell you some of the most successful shops (at least out by me on the East Coast) *DO* get involved with the community and at the very least the Chamber of Commerce (hence B2B networking opportunities).

        I don't think that (CofC) counts as the same thing, considering they're doing that for selfish, self-promotion purposes.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by misswahm View Post

      I don't know....maybe I'm silly, but when I sell a plant my customers don't expect me to go hang out in their window & chat with them while they water it each week, just because they paid me. When we buy anything at the store, we don't always expect there to be a representative from the company of the product we are buying there...though it is nice when they show up with free samples I probably haven't been here long enough to feel hurt, I suppose. Maybe that will come later
      That example has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

      Let me instead use an example that more closely relates to what we ARE talking about.

      A man is sitting on the side of the road begging for money. One day a gentlemen walks up and offers this homeless man a job -- an opportunity he had never been given before.

      The homeless man starts work at the job and over the next year he excels at that job and makes a lot of money. His life has turned around thanks to the opportunity given to him by that kind man.

      He then walks down the very same street he was sitting on only 12 months ago begging for money. Only this time he has his head help up high and his pocket full of money. As he walks down the street he sees a couple of homeless men begging for money just like he was only months before. He turns a blind eye and continues to walk on without a worry in the world.

      That's what you would do is it?


      Originally Posted by SteveSRS View Post

      /devils advocate mode/
      Well they could argue their WSO's / products are actually the contributions they make.
      The whole forums spins around making money, so do pretty much all of the product offers, then their support on the forum is their contribution...

      Also a reason why many people come here (I think) is exactly those products and special offers of those top sellers isn't it?
      /devils mode off

      You got a point but I think you're making it a bit too much black & white..
      I find it a VERY hard pill to swallow when I hear people say they are 'giving back to the community' by selling products to them. What a load of... They are just trying to make themselves feel better by saying that. You don't 'give back' by taking money. If you wanted to give back then give it away.
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      • Profile picture of the author misswahm
        It was a good try there, that you tried to tug at my heart strings, but I think that was a bit of a stretch, so unfortunately it failed.

        As someone who was orphaned at the age of 12 (me - I was actually orphaned twice in my life...birth & then when my adoptive parents died) I can tell you that the world doesn't work that way. There are many, many people out there "pretending" to give to the world, but the people who really give, usually do it quietly without much fanfare.

        Your scenerio would 1.) never play out in the real world. If you know of such a true story, please do tell. And 2.) if it did happen, are these "homeless" people he is passing on the street able minded & bodied are feeble minded & bodied? Because if they have the ability to take care of themselves, then no he should not help them because in the end he would only be hurting them by being just another person who told them (by their actions) that it's ok to be lazy & mooch off of the world, oh, and here I'll help you.

        I never expected a handout & I'm glad I was never given one. I don't expect a handout in this forum either. I want someone to help me because they truly have an interest in whatever is troubling me & I want to do the same for others. I don't want it to be because it's "good' for marketing in their eyes or because they are trying to prove their superiority to others on the forum. That's more selfish in my eyes than quietly sitting in the trenches & helping people out. Which brings me to another point...you have no idea what is happening in the background. They could be helping plenty of people & they probably are!


        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        That example has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

        Let me instead use an example that more closely relates to what we ARE talking about.

        A man is sitting on the side of the road begging for money. One day a gentlemen walks up and offers this homeless man a job -- an opportunity he had never been given before.

        The homeless man starts work at the job and over the next year he excels at that job and makes a lot of money. His life has turned around thanks to the opportunity given to him by that kind man.

        He then walks down the very same street he was sitting on only 12 months ago begging for money. Only this time he has his head help up high and his pocket full of money. As he walks down the street he sees a couple of homeless men begging for money just like he was only months before. He turns a blind eye and continues to walk on without a worry in the world.

        That's what you would do is it?




        I find it a VERY hard pill to swallow when I hear people say they are 'giving back to the community' by selling products to them. What a load of... They are just trying to make themselves feel better by saying that. You don't 'give back' by taking money. If you wanted to give back then give it away.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          I tend to agree with the sentiments expressed by the OP. But leaving aside the "giving back" argument, I would have thought it's worth getting more involved in the greater community for business reasons.

          Contributing to threads gives you a great opportunity to understand and interact with your potential customers and to position yourself as an authority in your chosen subject.

          I'd guess that many prospects are led to a WSO offer by following the link in the sig of a member whose post impressed them. That's certainly the way I've found most of the WSOs I ended up purchasing.

          I think those WSO sellers who stay out of the other sections could be missing a trick.

          Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by misswahm View Post

      I don't know....maybe I'm silly, but when I sell a plant my customers don't expect me to go hang out in their window & chat with them while they water it each week, just because they paid me. When we buy anything at the store, we don't always expect there to be a representative from the company of the product we are buying there...though it is nice when they show up with free samples I probably haven't been here long enough to feel hurt, I suppose. Maybe that will come later
      This may be true, but a lot of stores do contribute back to their communities by sponsoring local sports teams, holding food drives, allowing other organizations utilize their space with their own drives as well as contributing to local charities.

      The point is that they do give back to their community in some form or fashion just as WSO sellers do in some form or fashion.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author misswahm
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        This may be true, but a lot of stores do contribute back to their communities by sponsoring local sports teams, holding food drives, allowing other organizations utilize their space with their own drives as well as contributing to local charities.

        The point is that they do give back to their community in some form or fashion just as WSO sellers do in some form or fashion.

        Terra
        Very true! That's what I'm trying to get at, that there are so many ways to give back to your community, that I don't know how we can really judge whether a certain person is giving back or not without having access to their PMs etc. I also wonder how folks with families to care for at home are able to do so much posting & get work done & spend quality time at home. Now that is a WSO I would be interested in

        Anyway, I think blanket statements just make me feel weird in general & they end up making the person who made them look worse than the people they are trying to call out. But to each his own.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by misswahm View Post

          Very true! That's what I'm trying to get at, that there are so many ways to give back to your community, that I don't know how we can really judge whether a certain person is giving back or not without having access to their PMs etc. I also wonder how folks with families to care for at home are able to do so much posting & get work done & spend quality time at home. Now that is a WSO I would be interested in

          Anyway, I think blanket statements just make me feel weird in general & they end up making the person who made them look worse than the people they are trying to call out. But to each his own.
          You and I are on the same page girl, on all points.

          Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author misswahm
          Let me just add, that I CAN understand why a person who has spent so much of their time on here trying to help others would feel angry or frustrated if they felt that some stranger or interloper to the forum took them for a ride & then beat feet, without a care in the world. But keep in mind that destiny usually takes care of those folks Be satisfied in that thought. And be happy to know your life isn't as empty as theirs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
      The idea is to go beyond the norm, send your customer a card and say thanks for stopping in and for being a great customer and you'll see more of them.

      The not expecting it part is what causes them to be so surprised when they do get the card same principle as the thread here.

      Originally Posted by misswahm View Post

      I don't know....maybe I'm silly, but when I sell a plant my customers don't expect me to go hang out in their window & chat with them while they water it each week, just because they paid me. When we buy anything at the store, we don't always expect there to be a representative from the company of the product we are buying there...though it is nice when they show up with free samples I probably haven't been here long enough to feel hurt, I suppose. Maybe that will come later
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveSRS
    /devils advocate mode/
    Well they could argue their WSO's / products are actually the contributions they make.
    The whole forums spins around making money, so do pretty much all of the product offers, then their support on the forum is their contribution...

    Also a reason why many people come here (I think) is exactly those products and special offers of those top sellers isn't it?
    /devils mode off

    You got a point but I think you're making it a bit too much black & white..
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
      Originally Posted by SteveSRS View Post

      /devils advocate mode/
      Well they could argue their WSO's / products are actually the contributions they make.
      The whole forums spins around making money, so do pretty much all of the product offers, then their support on the forum is their contribution...
      Selling something is not contributing its the complete opposite.
      There is a huge difference between making a living off of wso's and just contributing
      To the forums to genuinely help others .
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      • Profile picture of the author jgd4js
        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        Selling something is not contributing its the complete opposite.
        There is a huge difference between making a living off of wso's and just contributing
        To the forums to genuinely help others .

        I agree 100%, I was under the impression, obviously wrongly, that there was a minimum post requirement for selling WSO's. There are minimum post requirement several things here....
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        Selling something is not contributing its the complete opposite.
        There is a huge difference between making a living off of wso's and just contributing
        To the forums to genuinely help others .

        If I sold brown paper bags and a very dark room to ugly Warriors who could not get laid without using one or both, then I would be doing people a very valuable service regardless of whether I contributed positively to the forum in other ways also or not.

        I suppose that what you are actually saying is that people offer more value when YOU have to pay less money to get their help? But you might be willing to throw them a ten or a twenty, if they have at least attempted to share something with you for free previously?

        Yeah, brown paper bags are cheap, but it costs a few minutes for my staff to actually cut out eye holes in those brown paper bags, so that ugly warriors don't make the mistake of taking their clothes off too soon!! And it costs a bit of money to ship those customized brown paper bags to the Warriors who need them.

        Providing a really dark room is actually more difficult than it might seem, but it can be done. My house is set up to have lots of natural lighting, so I had to use thick dark curtains to block the light from my bedroom, and I had to wait until the sun went down, before my wife would take a roll in the hay with me!!

        The bottom line is that I have lot of experience helping ugly warriors get laid -- I have numerous kids to prove it!!

        Click Here and I will sell you my report that will show you how YOU CAN GET LAID TOO!!

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post


          Click Here and I will sell you my report that will show you how YOU CAN GET LAID TOO!!

          .
          I would pay $20 bucks if you make that damn link work. i am dying to get at that product. I was only willing to pay $10, but since you spent so much time posting here for free, i figure its worth an extra $10.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    Nobody owes you anything. People sell stuff on here because they know they can make easy money off a bunch of noobs. When you come on here and tell people they should give back to the community it just sounds like your a desperate person who wants a piece of the pie.

    There is no secret knowledge that is going to make you successful. Hard work makes you successful. You already have all the knowledge you could possibly want on these forums and around the internet. It's nobody elses fault that you can't utilize the free information you are given to make money online. Don't sit here and ask for a hand out because you do nothing but sit on here waiting for free information thats going to make you rich to roll by. That's not how you become successful online so don't blame or ask for hand outs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Kal, I do understand the point you are making. However, I'd rather buy a great WSO from someone who rarely posts on the forum than a mediocre one from someone with hundreds of posts.

      In fact, the two best WSOs I have ever purchased were from two people who rarely post here and who have highly successful business models. I'd rather learn from them any day - and I am also very glad they sold those WSOs here. But, that's just me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        Kal, I do understand the point you are making. However, I'd rather buy a great WSO from someone who rarely posts on the forum than a mediocre one from someone with hundreds of posts.

        In fact, the two best WSOs I have ever purchased were from two people who rarely post here and who have highly successful business models. I'd rather learn from them any day - and I am also very glad they sold those WSOs here. But, that's just me.
        No ones saying "hey don't buy from someone unless they post so many times in the forum." It's more of a courtesy request. To be active in the forum. It also leads one to understand a person's character better. Frankly I've seen it both ways. I've purchased WSOs from forum members simply because I knew how intelligent they were in the forums with their posts, so I knew their product would be on par. I have also not purchased from forum members because I saw them dealing with newbie topics only with no real depth, and I knew when I saw their product (WSO) that it probably wasn't for me.

        Regardless either way, from a marketing standpoint I'd think that since you can post your WSO link in your signature.... that providing free help as you're running a WSO (with a link in your signature) would be an excellent form of marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I wonder why WF members buy WSOs from people that don't contribute?
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    • Profile picture of the author KillerJVs
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I wonder why WF members buy WSOs from people that don't contribute?
      Because the product quality isn't related to how much someone contributes on the forum?

      -Matt
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by KillerSalesDesign View Post

        Because the product quality isn't related to how much someone contributes on the forum?

        -Matt
        I think Kurt was being sarcastic.

        Of course there's zero relationship between the product quality and how many times someone posts. A provider could have been selling his product elsewhere for years and then stumbled across the WSO section and offered it without ever posting here. Conversely, posting and interacting here a lot has zero relationship to whether your product will be any good.

        The only way the 2 things can be connected is if the product owner spent some time on the forum finding out whether this forums members specifically had some other requirement they hadn't previously considered and then decided to include in the product. Or tailored the product in some way to focus on/help WF members.
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Clark
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          Of course there's zero relationship between the product quality and how many times someone posts.
          While I agree that post count does not reflect the quality of a product I do feel that new members to the WF would look upon a high post count as favourable when looking at a members product for the very reason this thread began, as a measure of contribution to the forum and link that to the product in turn creating an element of trust and belief in that marketer.
          To put it simply if two marketers were selling near indentical products and yet one marketers had 100 posts and another had 2000 who would you go for? Personally I'd take the 2000 post marketer as that amount of posts to me shows they're an active user of the forum, and not likely to just run off with my money when compared to a user with 100 posts.
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  • Profile picture of the author absplittesters
    Everyone sees value in in different ways...

    Some of these "top sellers" probably think they products they are releasing is value enough to the community even though people gotta pay for it... And in some cases that might be true...

    But I'm with the OP, I was always brought up with the "give and you shall receive" mindset which is something I try and live by, not just in forums, but life in general.

    That being said, everyones' different, the sellers who'll last and continue to make the $$ here are those who contribute...

    -Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hey Kal,

    I can understand your perspective and as someone who's posted more than most and rarely runs WSOs, I can certainly relate to your perspective...... However.....

    This forum is not just a community now. It is a marketplace too.

    It took me quite a while to adjust to this fact as I've made a lot of friends and personally met hundreds of this forums members.

    The fact of the matter is - the WSO section is no longer the 'special' section that it was and there are a LOT of people who struggle to make money outside this forum but know that if they just keep looking at what's selling and writing "attractive" sales copy - they can always sell something to some Warriors.

    In the old days I would have considered this to be pretty low because it's scraping the barrel as far as creating something new and useful goes, and there have been cases where they're copying the work of other Warrriors and rehashing existing material just to have 'something' to sell.

    But here's the rub.

    There are also a LOT of new people finding this forum all the time and they have no idea who's really an expert and who's just rewriting existing material - but they do benefit from the information whoever they got it from, and if that's the case then it's only spectators that get offended by what's happened (or the original product creator if it was copied).

    I don't think that someone coming here with a great product or service to sell has a duty to spend time chatting in the main forum. In fact, if they specialise in something (graphics, programming etc.) then maybe it is better for everyone if they spend their time doing what they love and creating cool stuff for others.

    I think it's a bit naive to expect that everyone who wants to use the WSO marketplace is also going to want to chat in the forum and the 2 things are not necessarily related. If you create an obviously useful program that saves me time and does something I already do even better - I don't really care how much you chat in the forum. If you're selling your expertise in the form of information products then yes, I'd certainly care whether I thought you knew your stuff or not before buying from you.

    There's no broad brush that covers what's right and wrong here - there are plenty of different reasons for buying, selling and chatting.

    Rather than try to shame others into doing what YOU think is right - why not just worry about what YOU are doing and leave others to do what's right for them?

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author The Link Broker
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      That example has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

      Let me instead use an example that more closely relates to what we ARE talking about.

      A man is sitting on the side of the road begging for money. One day a gentlemen walks up and offers this homeless man a job -- an opportunity he had never been given before.

      The homeless man starts work at the job and over the next year he excels at that job and makes a lot of money. His life has turned around thanks to the opportunity given to him by that kind man.

      He then walks down the very same street he was sitting on only 12 months ago begging for money. Only this time he has his head help up high and his pocket full of money. As he walks down the street he sees a couple of homeless men begging for money just like he was only months before. He turns a blind eye and continues to walk on without a worry in the world.

      That's what you would do is it?

      ...


      Whaaat? Lol... I think that is way off base, my friend, and is in no way the same thing as what we're talking about here. Your analogy seems to compare a WSO purporter to a homeless man and this forum to a savior/good samaritan who offers him a job. I don't think that's the case at all.

      Do you really think that if this forum didn't exist, the people making the big bucks from successful WSO's would be sitting around broke with no ideas, waiting on something to fall into their lap? I don't think so. I think they'd offer their product/service somewhere else, and they'd still be in the same position that they're in today.

      The only person who can make someone successful is that person. I could give you all the tools in the world for success and tell you how to use them, but it's up to you to use them to create that success for yourself.

      You're giving this forum the credit for making these people successful, and stripping the person of any credit for their own success. With all due respect to WF and its members, WF did not make that person successful. That person made themselves successful.

      Furthermore, people pay to offer WSO's on here. By your analogy, that would be more like the homeless man (somehow) paying the man for the job.

      And your last line: "That's what you would do is it?" ...Why would you accuse someone of being so cruel, bro?





      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Hey Kal,

      I can understand your perspective and as someone who's posted more than most and rarely runs WSOs, I can certainly relate to your perspective...... However.....

      This forum is not just a community now. It is a marketplace too.

      It took me quite a while to adjust to this fact as I've made a lot of friends and personally met hundreds of this forums members.

      The fact of the matter is - the WSO section is no longer the 'special' section that it was and there are a LOT of people who struggle to make money outside this forum but know that if they just keep looking at what's selling and writing "attractive" sales copy - they can always sell something to some Warriors.

      In the old days I would have considered this to be pretty low because it's scraping the barrel as far as creating something new and useful goes, and there have been cases where they're copying the work of other Warrriors and rehashing existing material just to have 'something' to sell.

      But here's the rub.

      There are also a LOT of new people finding this forum all the time and they have no idea who's really an expert and who's just rewriting existing material - but they do benefit from the information whoever they got it from, and if that's the case then it's only spectators that get offended by what's happened (or the original product creator if it was copied).

      I don't think that someone coming here with a great product or service to sell has a duty to spend time chatting in the main forum. In fact, if they specialise in something (graphics, programming etc.) then maybe it is better for everyone if they spend their time doing what they love and creating cool stuff for others.

      I think it's a bit naive to expect that everyone who wants to use the WSO marketplace is also going to want to chat in the forum and the 2 things are not necessarily related. If you create an obviously useful program that saves me time and does something I already do even better - I don't really care how much you chat in the forum. If you're selling your expertise in the form of information products then yes, I'd certainly care whether I thought you knew your stuff or not before buying from you.

      There's no broad brush that covers what's right and wrong here - there are plenty of different reasons for buying, selling and chatting.

      Rather than try to shame others into doing what YOU think is right - why not just worry about what YOU are doing and leave others to do what's right for them?

      Andy


      This is the best argument made so far in this thread imho. Great post, Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author ashloren
    I agree with everyone on this thread who has voted for the participation of top WSO sellers in the forum where they are so successful.

    One good reason to do this is that it keeps you human, both personally and to your customers as well. Another good reason is that it shows you really give a flying f * u * c * k (assuming you do...) about other people.

    Not everyone cares. Some only care about how much money they can make and those people tend to be rather ruthless in the pursuit of said wealth. I have little interest in doing business with anyone like that, myself.

    Great thing about all this....is that even if someone who doesn't give back to the community is selling a really great WSO, you will be able to find someone else who DOES give back to the forum who is ALSO selling a WSO on a similar subject or in the same niche. I know where I'd spend my money!
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by ashloren View Post


      One good reason to do this is that it keeps you human, both personally and to your customers as well. Another good reason is that it shows you really give a flying f * u * c * k (assuming you do...) about other people.
      That's a massive and really negative generalisation.

      I can't believe that you would make such an assumption about people.

      As Andrew Fletcher said above, he cares about his customers and interacts on the forum, but his main activity is creating products. He's a good guy, very good at creating useful things for IMers and he looks after his customers well - but acknowledges that his posting in the forum is not related to his products, so if he decided that he needed to spend more time on the product development in order to raise the quality of his products - suddenly that would make him be classed as not giving a crap about other people? Or being a heartless money-grabber?

      All this type of talk seems to be coming from a very limited and judgemental mindset.

      How much time a successful person has depends largely on what their business model is. If you make your money by managing a group of programmers and you spend your time interacting in the forum and sending ideas for products to your team, that doesn't make your products better than (for example) a graphics artist who spends all of their own time creating new website templates for members who don't have that skill. But because they need to spend their own time (because they're using their own talent to create the product) they don't have time to chat on the forum - or they will not be able to deliver their products in such a timely manner or support their customers as well as they should.

      The whole posting vs selling proposition is fatally flawed and just confusing things. It's nothing more than a ground for people who think their own opinion is the one others should have to say their piece.

      If you won't buy from people who don't chat to you on the forum - that's YOUR problem. It says NOTHING about anyone selling products/services.

      I think this whole discussion is a waste of time because it is founded on a negative judgement about a generalised group of people and is just something that is each persons own perception.

      Why bother trying to come up with new ways to judge others as unworthy or unethical?

      Life's too short - why not look for what's good and what people are doing well?
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      • Profile picture of the author ashloren
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        That's a massive and really negative generalisation.

        I can't believe that you would make such an assumption about people.
        So...saying that helpful, active forum members are clearly people who care about others is a negative statement? Hmmmm.

        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        As Andrew Fletcher said above, he cares about his customers and interacts on the forum, but his main activity is creating products.
        I never once said that caring about your customers is a bad thing, and I'm pretty sure that product creation is the first priority of MOST businesses in the world, obviously.
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        He's a good guy, very good at creating useful things for IMers and he looks after his customers well - but acknowledges that his posting in the forum is not related to his products, so if he decided that he needed to spend more time on the product development in order to raise the quality of his products - suddenly that would make him be classed as not giving a crap about other people? Or being a heartless money-grabber?
        As far as I understood, nothing I said was in any way intended to be directed towards this particular individual...
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        All this type of talk seems to be coming from a very limited and judgemental mindset.
        Well that's a first. Never been accused of having a closed mind, that's for sure. LOL
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post


        If you won't buy from people who don't chat to you on the forum - that's YOUR problem. It says NOTHING about anyone selling products/services.
        As the OP pointed out, knowing the person behind the product/service is what gives buyers confidence and builds trust. That leads to sales, in case you weren't aware. I never said I don't buy from people who refuse to "chat" with me. That's petty and stupid, and those words are 100% yours, not mine.

        That being said, I typically don't buy from anyone online who doesn't have a good track record and reputation. For me, one of the biggest parts of that is their integrity and the way they reach out to people. The most successful bloggers respond to the comments they receive. And you know what? That makes me more likely to buy. If you want to call that chatting, fine. We can call it whatever you prefer. The point is, refusing to buy from those who don't "chat" in some way is actually not a problem for me at all - it has served me pretty damn well, in fact.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

          So...saying that helpful, active forum members are clearly people who care about others is a negative statement? Hmmmm.
          I don't think that is what he was getting at ash. Actually, I think the point that people should really understand here is that great WSO's and forum participation don't necessarily have to run hand in hand. You can be a great salesperson that puts out great products and not post in the discussion sections at all.

          Now does that lessen their appeal a bit? In my eyes, yes, so I definitely agree with you on that. It's just the way the market is set up though, and as long as no one is getting scammed I can't really justify a change. I think we have our hands full with the people already active around here :p.
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          • Profile picture of the author ashloren
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            I don't think that is what he was getting at ash. Actually, I think the point that people should really understand here is that great WSO's and forum participation don't necessarily have to run hand in hand. You can be a great salesperson that puts out great products and not post in the discussion sections at all.

            Now does that lessen their appeal a bit? In my eyes, yes, so I definitely agree with you on that. It's just the way the market is set up though, and as long as no one is getting scammed I can't really justify a change. I think we have our hands full with the people already active around here :p.
            Totally, I don't have a problem with anyone doing legitimate business. You're right when you say that there is nothing wrong with just selling good stuff and not scamming anyone. I just have more confidence in people who contribute at least SOMETHING as opposed to nothing but WSOs. Personal preference I suppose.
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

              Totally, I don't have a problem with anyone doing legitimate business. You're right when you say that there is nothing wrong with just selling good stuff and not scamming anyone. I just have more confidence in people who contribute at least SOMETHING as opposed to nothing but WSOs. Personal preference I suppose.
              Exactly.

              Sure we'd all like to know more about the people we're buying from - especially in the IM niche where there are so many BS artists, if you've been ripped off a few times, you may have trust as a very important part of your buying strategy.

              I think most people would feel the same.

              The point here is about these sweeping assumptions being pushed. i.e if you only sell and don't post in the forum then you don't care about people. Or that everyone should talk to their customers to gain their trust. When I go and buy some fresh fruit I don't really care which shop I buy them from, which supplier sent them, which country they came from, and I certainly don't want the sell to talk to me about them.

              My point - not every customer wants/needs to be talked to, and not every seller needs to talk to their customers.

              I'm sure it helps in most situations but it also takes time, and if you want your business to scale above and beyond the 24 hours a day YOU have then you need to value your time and only spend it where you get the most from it. There's a reason we don't call every friend we have 3 times a day - not because we hate people, or don't care about those friends, but because we have to focus on where our time needs to be spent. Sure we'd all like to spend more time chatting but we all have different business models and goals in life.

              The moral being - just live your own life and don't judge people living theirs differently.

              If you were in their shoes - perhaps you'd act as they do.
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              • Profile picture of the author ashloren
                Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                Exactly.

                Sure we'd all like to know more about the people we're buying from - especially in the IM niche where there are so many BS artists, if you've been ripped off a few times, you may have trust as a very important part of your buying strategy.

                I think most people would feel the same.

                The point here is about these sweeping assumptions being pushed. i.e if you only sell and don't post in the forum then you don't care about people. Or that everyone should talk to their customers to gain their trust. When I go and buy some fresh fruit I don't really care which shop I buy them from, which supplier sent them, which country they came from, and I certainly don't want the sell to talk to me about them.

                My point - not every customer wants/needs to be talked to, and not every seller needs to talk to their customers.

                I'm sure it helps in most situations but it also takes time, and if you want your business to scale above and beyond the 24 hours a day YOU have then you need to value your time and only spend it where you get the most from it. There's a reason we don't call every friend we have 3 times a day - not because we hate people, or don't care about those friends, but because we have to focus on where our time needs to be spent. Sure we'd all like to spend more time chatting but we all have different business models and goals in life.

                The moral being - just live your own life and don't judge people living theirs differently.

                If you were in their shoes - perhaps you'd act as they do.
                Agreed. I wasn't trying to judge anyone. I guess what I meant was that when you know someone better, you have a better sense of trust in their products.

                That doesn't mean you should never trust sellers who you DON'T know.
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                • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
                  Bearing in mind the quality of some of the wso's I have seen, it is probably a good thing some sellers of them do not contribute to the forum...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

                    Bearing in mind the quality of some of the wso's I have seen, it is probably a good thing some sellers of them do not contribute to the forum...
                    Did you ever think that this might be an indictment on your ability to pick out good WSO's :p?
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                    • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
                      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                      Did you ever think that this might be an indictment on your ability to pick out good WSO's :p?
                      No, I didn't, Joe! But thanks anyway...
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                      Did you ever think that this might be an indictment on your ability to pick out good WSO's :p?
                      Could be Joe, but a lot of them do dangle some pretty awesome carrots in the way of huge income claims and other unfounded hype. Someone said "cream rises to the top." Well, sh*t floats too and no one can deny that many of those WSOs wouldn't sell a thing if buyers actually had the desire and ability to pick out "good" WSOs.

                      Personally, I don't feel that making bank by using deceptive marketing in the way of the huge income and other claims is anything close to a "contribution" nor does it fit my definition of a successful business. A lot of these "successful" marketers spit out one WSO after another that cater to the dreamer crowd. Dreamers have a short attention and memory span. Just keep dangling carrots and they'll continue to bite.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        Could be Joe, but a lot of them do dangle some pretty awesome carrots in the way of huge income claims and other unfounded hype. Someone said "cream rises to the top." Well, sh*t floats too and no one can deny that many of those WSOs wouldn't sell a thing if buyers actually had the desire and ability to pick out "good" WSOs.

                        Personally, I don't feel that making bank by using deceptive marketing in the way of the huge income and other claims is anything close to a "contribution" nor does it fit my definition of a successful business. A lot of these "successful" marketers spit out one WSO after another that cater to the dreamer crowd. Dreamers have a short attention and memory span. Just keep dangling carrots and they'll continue to bite.
                        You nailed it here,
                        I would have never said it any better.
                        I believe so as well contribution with rehashed products
                        Does not have any meaning in my book.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                          Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

                          You nailed it here,
                          I would have never said it any better.
                          I believe so as well contribution with rehashed products
                          Does not have any meaning in my book.
                          That seems to be because you have a negative mindset and this thread was really just started for you to vent your anger at people who create and sell crap and have no interest in the people in this community other than to make money from us.

                          However, you've taken a very polarised perspective and don't seem to have the open-mindedness to accept that not everyone has the negative spin on things that you do.

                          You like answers that agree with you and dismiss people who see value where you don't.

                          I'm not sure what else you want to get from this thread apart from more people agreeing with you.

                          It's a shame because people have shown you some other ways to see things that don't require the negative slant which you seem keen to keep going.

                          None of us like to see crap rehashed products or people who don't care about our community, but you can choose to filter them out rather than focus on them and get wound up.
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                          • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
                            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                            That seems to be because you have a negative mindset and this thread was really just started for you to vent your anger at people who create and sell crap and have no interest in the people in this community other than to make money from us.

                            However, you've taken a very polarised perspective and don't seem to have the open-mindedness to accept that not everyone has the negative spin on things that you do.

                            You like answers that agree with you and dismiss people who see value where you don't.

                            I'm not sure what else you want to get from this thread apart from more people agreeing with you.

                            It's a shame because people have shown you some other ways to see things that don't require the negative slant which you seem keen to keep going.

                            None of us like to see crap rehashed products or people who don't care about our community, but you can choose to filter them out rather than focus on them and get wound up.

                            That's because hes lazy and hes mad because apparently to him everyone is making money but him so he wants those "successful" people selling WSO's to share their secrets with him so he doesn't have to do any work trying to figure it out for himself.
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                          • Profile picture of the author The Link Broker
                            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                            That seems to be because you have a negative mindset and this thread was really just started for you to vent your anger at people who create and sell crap and have no interest in the people in this community other than to make money from us.

                            However, you've taken a very polarised perspective and don't seem to have the open-mindedness to accept that not everyone has the negative spin on things that you do.

                            You like answers that agree with you and dismiss people who see value where you don't.

                            I'm not sure what else you want to get from this thread apart from more people agreeing with you.

                            It's a shame because people have shown you some other ways to see things that don't require the negative slant which you seem keen to keep going.

                            None of us like to see crap rehashed products or people who don't care about our community, but you can choose to filter them out rather than focus on them and get wound up.


                            I love this guy. Another great post, Andy.

                            It's not like these people (the WSO peddlers who aren't active in the forum) are broken or have some horrible disease. There's no reason to talk about them like they aren't human beings. They simply have an opportunity for improvement.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
                            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                            That seems to be because you have a negative mindset .
                            People perceive things differently,And I guess you did here ...somehow you have concluded that I have a negative mindset, Well not at all it's actually the total opposite.

                            .
                            However, you've taken a very polarised perspective and don't seem to have the open-mindedness to accept that not everyone has the different spin on things that you do..
                            Again I'm afraid your just assuming things and also contradicting yourself in the same token.
                            Off course everyone would not agree with what I have to say hence a discussion or a debate?

                            None of us like to see crap rehashed products or people who don't care about our community, but you can choose to filter them out rather than focus on them and get wound up.
                            Thank You!...Not everyone knows how to filter them out,you have been around long enough to know that. and there's a lot of factors involved in "How & Why" people Buy but will not get into that now
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                            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                              Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the people who this is addressing don't hang out on the discussion part of the forum and likely will never see it.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
                                Your missing the point. The point is that they should also give back to the forum not just take from it. So they SHOULD HANG OUT THERE SOMETIMES.
                                Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                                Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the people who this is addressing don't hang out on the discussion part of the forum and likely will never see it.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Tenzo
                                  Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

                                  Your missing the point. The point is that they should also give back to the forum not just take from it. So they SHOULD HANG OUT THERE SOMETIMES.
                                  I don't think the point is being missed. Starting a thread titled A Message To: "Top WSO Sellers Who Never Contribute To This Forum" is like sending a letter to the wrong address.

                                  Pretty much pointless.

                                  Best,
                                  Kevin
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                                • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

                                  Your missing the point. The point is that they should also give back to the forum not just take from it. So they SHOULD HANG OUT THERE SOMETIMES.
                                  They obviously don't want to, so I'd rather they stayed in their section doing their thing and didn't provide phony interactions/rile things up in here. It's the nature of the beast unfortunately. The Warrior Forum is more than just a forum these days.
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                                • Profile picture of the author bwh1
                                  Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

                                  Your missing the point. The point is that they should also give back to the forum not just take from it. So they SHOULD HANG OUT THERE SOMETIMES.
                                  LOL, I started to think about something scarry...

                                  and if they don't have anything to give back

                                  Maybe I'll do a PLR WSO - INSTANT FORUM BUDDY - Give Back To Your Community, just fill in the blanks with your name and you'r ready to go.

                                  G.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Mark Rolland
                                Agreed...I was thinking the same thing. Well if they are reading this..hope they pipe in!

                                Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                                Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the people who this is addressing don't hang out on the discussion part of the forum and likely will never see it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Sean
      Hey Ashloren, my reply to your statements in bold

      Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

      I agree with everyone on this thread who has voted for the participation of top WSO sellers in the forum where they are so successful.

      The way I see it, when a top wso seller participates, he is going to generate more sales because of the added trust, and the lack of participation will probably mean less sales for him

      But the seller does not OWE us anything just because his making billions selling wsos (im exaggerating of course!

      One good reason to do this is that it keeps you human, both personally and to your customers as well. Another good reason is that it shows you really give a flying f * u * c * k (assuming you do...) about other people.

      Not everyone cares. Some only care about how much money they can make and those people tend to be rather ruthless in the pursuit of said wealth. I have little interest in doing business with anyone like that, myself.

      I agree not everyone cares, but just because a top wso seller doesnt participate in the forums doesn't mean he/she is bad or just wants your money.. everyone has different priorities
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    I don't really understand the point of this thread. I post a fair amount on the forum (probably more than is entirely healthy for me) because I like to but I don't get how that reflects on the products I sell.

    Do my Wordpress plugins suddenly become more effective because I spend time on the main forum?

    If someone is buying my stuff I want it to be because they get more value out of the purchase than the monetary value I placed on it not because of some weird sense of obligation from "knowing me" on the forum.

    And what if I were to stop posting tomorrow? Do my plugins suddenly stop working?

    Seems a bit of a stretch to me. I'd focus on buying things where you get value from the purchase rather than some perceived value in the person selling it.
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    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      No, the point is that I became YOUR raving fan a few years back (man, time flies) due to a post in the War Room where you shared a KILLER business strategy (had some to do with your brother or so).

      So you offer some AWESOME information for free to contribute to the community, and in exchange the community loves you and buy's your products (at least for me it works that way).

      I have one WSO warrior which is only a seller, and which once answered to me in a way I didn't liked (I made a critique about his WSO, HUGE mistake -buy and shut up). I even don't look at his offers anymore, even if they sell like hotcakes.

      But we have to face the reality - Welcome to WF 2012

      The same which applies to the WSO sellers applies to the buyers.

      Check how many are active in the other sections outside the WSO forum, very few are.

      Thanks god they opened an offline forum a fw month back. I remember when threads (Awesome threads, no BS) got deleted due to "too much" attention - remember DEXX??

      I like this thread here, miss the way the forum was in the past.

      G.

      Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

      I don't really understand the point of this thread. I post a fair amount on the forum (probably more than is entirely healthy for me) because I like to but I don't get how that reflects on the products I sell.

      Do my Wordpress plugins suddenly become more effective because I spend time on the main forum?

      If someone is buying my stuff I want it to be because they get more value out of the purchase than the monetary value I placed on it not because of some weird sense of obligation from "knowing me" on the forum.

      And what if I were to stop posting tomorrow? Do my plugins suddenly stop working?

      Seems a bit of a stretch to me. I'd focus on buying things where you get value from the purchase rather than some perceived value in the person selling it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charanjit
    I think their is no left or right, ie they chose not to participate, and it is what it is, we try and put meaning to the fact why they don't but they just don't, now their is a huge difference between being active and help full in the forum, active would be their ability to make posts on the forum (you can find people on odesk that will do that for you for $2.00 a day),

    Being help full would require time and effort. So which one are you looking for? as if your looking for being helpful then your asking for information that will aid your business (now in their eyes they have all ready given that, wso) and if your looking for activity then you have some kind of thought that these top sellers should waste their time.

    Final note, when buying a wso one of the things I personally look at is how many times they have been thanked but not brought one for the last 5 months. Also people have to understand what wso offer is time saving, as if you was to read every post here, test the theory in practice , test the results you would come to the blue print they are trying to sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    Every now and then I see a post where a successful marketer here gets totally toasted for voicing their opinion. Often because it's contrary to popular beliefs and based on their experience in the trenches.

    If that was me... eventually I'd just go f*** it and stop posting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Sean
    Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

    My whole life I was taught that:
    If you receive something you have to give something back
    If you don't well.... you might end up being looked at as shallow and maybe selfish.

    In Business you also hear it quite often: Give to Get.
    The model works well and it makes me feel better about myself.
    (not just in for the money) no watta I mean?

    Now recently it caught my attention that there is a pretty good number of
    Top WSO Sellers who don't contribute to the forum At All!
    Not even get involved in any discussions or anything Nothing Nada Zero Zilch...

    I am not going to mention any names, though I would love too but for obvious
    reasons, Nah... You can however, Look at the top wso sellers right now and
    see if they ever posted here 10 minutes and you will find one or two.lol.

    The only time I hear from them is when they are launching the newest killer wso.
    And how great it is and why I must buy it lol..What a huge turn off... Ridiculous.

    If I happen to purchase a WSO, it is usually from someone I Know, and usually I
    Know the wso seller because I have seen them contribute here for free. yeah?

    How do you expect me to know & trust you when I have never
    seen you give back to the forum? I wouldn't really buy your stuff.
    but that's just me. Maybe someone else would.But,
    It is noticeable what your doing and it looks bad, it looks really bad.

    If a big part of your business model relies heavily on Launching wso after wso,
    or maybe your entire business depends solely on wsos :rolleyes:
    then, I would get involved a little show appreciation, (just a little maybe once a month?)
    and give back to who's paying me.yeah?

    I can almost guarantee you that they won't show up to this threat which will help illustrate
    my point even further. If they do then to me it would be a miracle...yeah that's how bad it is!

    Kal.


    P.S. Some wso sellers are guilty of this behavior not all, just wanted to make this
    Clear.

    Hi Kal,

    Although I would love to see participation from top wso sellers(or anyone for that matter) in the forum here.

    I would have disagree with you on this matter(with respect of course)

    They have no obligations whatsoever to contribute to this forum. It is not like they are owing the forum anything simply because they sell alot of WSOs .

    Also alot of this wso sellers are mostly busy with the amount of PM and emails they receive. In fact I would personally be upset as a customer if my pm is not answered and they are still actively posting on the forums.

    -Brandon
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    They can do whatever they want... I could care less.

    All I know is there have been people on this forum who have helped me over the years out of the blue. Without them, I wouldn't be a marketer at all today.

    Before the forum, I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off clueless about what really works online.

    When I joined Warrior Forum, I started studying copywriting and started learning product creation, Listbuilding, arfiliate marketing, and started getting some study buddies and jv partners.

    I even got my first full time marketing job from someone I met on this forum and relocated to work in his office for a while.

    To others this site may just be a cash cow, but for me, it's where I really got going.

    So naturally I'm more inclined to help out a few people here in the threads.

    It may not be like that for the people you're mentioning.

    They may not feel that drive to give back.

    Their background could be totally different than mine.

    So I don't blame them really.
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  • Profile picture of the author peewhy
    A lot of fantastic, very valuable advice comes from people who have nothing to sell and nothing to gain.

    I'm grateful for all well meaning advice whether it is a super dooper top WSO bod or all the good people who take the time and trouble to drop by and help.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    My comments above may have seemed like I was having a go at these people who choose not to participate. Not the case at all -- they are more than entitled to do what they want, and they will. My only point is that I believe it tells you quite a bit about the type of person they are though. Willing to help when money is involved, a lot less forthcoming when it is not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    While I agree with the OP's thoughts, I also don't think they are obligated to give back. I know exactly which "Top WSO Sellers" that are being referred to. Sadly, when I was all shiney new to this forum, I purchased a couple of those WSO's, and quickly learned my lesson.
    Now just to be fair, I once PM'd a well respected WR member once (they're actually on this thread!), and they never got back to me. Maybe I was out of line PM-ing, don't know. Perhaps, they were just too busy and my message got overlooked. Point is, you just never know. I didn't take it personally, well, after a few days of being butt hurt over it, :rolleyes:.
    All in all, this forum is top of the line! The few stinkers in here are just that, and it doesn't take long for a person to "sniff" them out!
    And to those of us that are still learning, the one's that do contribute, thank you for all that you do! It does make a difference!
    Signature


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    • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
      After reading through every single post in this thread, I thought I'd find someone who had done what I had done. No one has fessed up to it, though, so I'll be the first.

      I started posting in the WF last year because I wanted to build a a presence here so I could sell stuff. I'd already done it in one forum which the founder took down, so I figured I could do it again here. I'd made good money doing it before and I felt like I could do it again on a much larger stage.

      Then something happened:

      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      You'll find that your community involvement isn't just beneficial to others but also to yourself.
      I started to like talking with the people here. I started feeling like a part of the community. I made a few friends that I could PM with and eventually get on FB and Gmail and all.

      I try now to only contribute in threads where I have a decent idea of what I'm talking about or have personal experience. I don't venture into the mobile marketing forum and I tend to only read in the copywriting forum.

      I've yet to make my first WSO (10 more days and counting!), but I still come back day after day so that I can interact.

      I think the WF is like crack for IM'ers...it's way too addictive for its own good.

      -- j
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

        I think the WF is like crack for IM'ers...it's way too addictive for its own good.

        -- j
        ^^^^^^
        I get more than I give here. I enjoy the interaction. Some of it is contribution, some of it is shooting the breeze with some people I like.

        As for a product being a contribution, I have to roll back on that ... It's an advertisement. Sure it contributes to the forum economy and some buyers may find it useful, but your average ad for toilet paper or blenders on TV contribute to the economy and are useful products for someone, but I don't think I've ever watched a commercial on TV and said ... thank you for that contribution. lol. Perhaps contribution isn't really the right word for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author RyanLeonard
      I know this has been mentioned, but it bears repeating. You wouldn't believe the ammount of customer support required after launching a WSO

      It can be quite time consuming (if you're actually trying to help people).

      I do however think that even if you don't have the time to sit around and make posts, you should at least start a new thread giving out some valuable information for free every once in awhile- show that you're in it for more than just the money.

      My two cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author ot
    Genuinely successful people don't have the time to spend hours a day posting on a forum trying to cultivate a successful persona for mugs to buy rubbish from.

    Buy on quality of product not who you think the seller is.

    And a lot of the people who are posting a lot with 'advice' are just flying their sig. Can be funny to look their own sites up and see what they are doing compared to what they are posting...
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    I hope you buy my wso :p
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    • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
      Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu View Post

      I hope you buy my wso :p
      You need have nothing to fear, Andrei, if it's any good!
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

    My whole life I was taught that:
    If you receive something you have to give something back
    If you don't well.... you might end up being looked at as shallow and maybe selfish.

    In Business you also hear it quite often: Give to Get.
    The model works well and it makes me feel better about myself.
    (not just in for the money) no watta I mean?

    Now recently it caught my attention that there is a pretty good number of
    Top WSO Sellers who don't contribute to the forum At All!
    Not even get involved in any discussions or anything Nothing Nada Zero Zilch...

    I am not going to mention any names, though I would love too but for obvious
    reasons, Nah... You can however, Look at the top wso sellers right now and
    see if they ever posted here 10 minutes and you will find one or two.lol.

    The only time I hear from them is when they are launching the newest killer wso.
    And how great it is and why I must buy it lol..What a huge turn off... Ridiculous.

    If I happen to purchase a WSO, it is usually from someone I Know, and usually I
    Know the wso seller because I have seen them contribute here for free. yeah?

    How do you expect me to know & trust you when I have never
    seen you give back to the forum? I wouldn't really buy your stuff.
    but that's just me. Maybe someone else would.But,
    It is noticeable what your doing and it looks bad, it looks really bad.

    If a big part of your business model relies heavily on Launching wso after wso,
    or maybe your entire business depends solely on wsos :rolleyes:
    then, I would get involved a little show appreciation, (just a little maybe once a month?)
    and give back to who's paying me.yeah?
    So, basically what you're saying is these top wso sellers, which I assume means they sell the most and make the most money, are doing it all wrong and should do it your way instead if they want to sell anything? Who can argue with such logic? Sounds to me like someone is a little jealous.
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    • Profile picture of the author ashloren
      Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

      So, basically what you're saying is these top wso sellers, which I assume means they sell the most and make the most money, are doing it all wrong and should do it your way instead if they want to sell anything? Who can argue with such logic? Sounds to me like someone is a little jealous.
      I don't recall him saying anything about their lack of participation affecting their volume of sales. He's not claiming that they aren't successful when it comes to selling. He's criticizing their lack of public relations, rather.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    The people you are addressing this too won't read it. They never leave the WSO forum. Doesn't bother me how people choose to do business. Personally, I'm not likely to notice their WSOs. The majority of the ones I buy are from signatures of people I like around here.
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    • Profile picture of the author misswahm
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      The people you are addressing this too won't read it. They never leave the WSO forum. Doesn't bother me how people choose to do business. Personally, I'm not likely to notice their WSOs. The majority of the ones I buy are from signatures of people I like around here.
      Well said. Let the free market decide. If you don't approve of their social output, don't buy from them. Buy from the folks you support & who support you.
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      • Profile picture of the author FredJones
        Interesting topic...

        If I need/want something and it comes from a WSO seller that I don't know, I look around, justify the credentials, and make a decent background study often enough (on the Warrior Forum going by posts, profile etc) before trusting and hitting the buy button. There have been enough cases where these factors have pushed me from a positive to a borderline and then ultimately to a negative in terms of pressing the buy button.

        And if that same something that I need/want comes from someone that I know and/or have seen contributing positively then I am very likely to buy. In fact, there have been a few cases where I have seen the headline, the first few lines of the sales letter and then straight off I bought the thingy sold because I knew/trusted the person.

        Not everyone need to follow the above. Human beings are unique and in this case there's no single right or wrong. It's subjective.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    No one mentioned that one must contribute for their product to be good.
    Infact it is very irrelevant to propose that.
    Your not obligated by any means to participate
    So you won't be looked upon as selfish. It's a reflection of who really are.
    Don't tell me your here to help because based on the fact your clearly not.

    Yes it is a marketplace that strives off of a community.
    If you are selling to the community shouldn't you be a part of it?
    Go sell on eBay or amazon and let's see how well you do, yeah?

    If a seller comes out of nowhere and offers an amazing product,that's great!
    If the same seller decided to base their entire business on:

    1- Launching wso after wso like clockwork
    2- cheap low quality...no wonder why?
    3 -Refunds rate through the roof
    4-Never contribute Never.

    Then to me It's a shallow practice and perhaps selfish.
    And that's the message. I hope more will be aware.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    If their products work, and help people make more money, is that not a direct contribution to the membership?

    If the money they spend on advertising pays the bills to keep the forum up and running, does that not contribute?

    If they offer examples of people making honest money in this business, does that not contribute?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      If their products work, and help people make more money, is that not a direct contribution to the membership?

      If the money they spend on advertising pays the bills to keep the forum up and running, does that not contribute?

      If they offer examples of people making honest money in this business, does that not contribute?
      Yes yes and yes...I'm talking about the large some that you can
      Barely call their stuff a "product"

      You can look at it from whatever angle you chose, but there is
      One obvious angle than all others.

      All I'm saying its not that hard to post once in a blue moon, really isn't,
      But it makes a huge difference!
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      • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        Yes yes and yes...I'm talking about the large some that you can
        Barely call their stuff a "product"

        You can look at it from whatever angle you chose, but there is
        One obvious angle than all others.

        All I'm saying its not that hard to post once in a blue moon, really isn't,
        But it makes a huge difference!
        So if people with rubbish products posted in the forum, that's some how better?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
          Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

          So if people with rubbish products posted in the forum, that's some how better?
          That is an invalid argument.
          Do you really believe that's what was meant? C'ommon now..
          If its too hard to comprehend I would advise to re-read the original post:p
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    • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      If their products work, and help people make more money, is that not a direct contribution to the membership?

      If the money they spend on advertising pays the bills to keep the forum up and running, does that not contribute?

      If they offer examples of people making honest money in this business, does that not contribute?
      At no point do I wish to be in conflict with any man or masculine thought.
      It doesn't enter my consciousness. Art is anonymous. It's not competitive
      with men. It's a complementary contribution.

      Barbara Hepworth



      Kingsley
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      If their products work, and help people make more money, is that not a direct contribution to the membership?

      If the money they spend on advertising pays the bills to keep the forum up and running, does that not contribute?

      If they offer examples of people making honest money in this business, does that not contribute?
      Yep, they're contributing. Just not as much as those that do all the above AND also contribute in the forums.
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    The community aren't giving them an advert and receiving nothing in return. It costs money to run an WSO. They give money and they receive the chance to run their ad.

    As for how well it works - there are a lot of people with big lists and no forum posts what-so-ever, doing extremely well.

    If you have no reach aside from your WSO then it is better to build your reputation and use the forum itself to build trust and drive traffic (through your sig by being helpful). However, if you have the traffic sorted, the offer is good and you just want a place to run your sales-page where customers can leave feedback, there is nothing wrong with that.

    The only problem some people have, is seeing the results of someone with a huge list making their first post as an WSO and believing the results are typical.
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  • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
    Creating products is a contribution.

    If people thought the products weren't providing value, they wouldn't be spending money on them, no?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
      Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul View Post

      Creating products is a contribution
      I completely disagree with all due respect,
      Take a moment of your time and read the translation Here
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        I completely disagree with all due respect,
        I would like you to take a moment of your time and read the translation Here
        How about paying $40 as that's about the most direct contribution it is possible to make to a forum.

        You say they need words? I say money talks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
          Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

          How about paying $40 as that's about the most direct contribution it is possible to make to a forum.

          You say they need words? I say money talks.
          Hmm, so then paying for anything in this world is a contribution to you?
          It could be. But let me tell you..

          Whenever you hear the word " contribution" what comes to your mind? Than You!
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          • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
            Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

            Hmm, so then paying for anything in this world is a contribution to you?
            It could be. But let me tell you..

            Whenever you hear the word " contribution" what comes to your mind? Than You!
            If a man is building a shed and wants help, I can contribute in one of two ways.

            1) I can roll up my sleeves and start helping him build it.
            2) I can pay for someone to build it for him.

            Both options are equally valid and just as helpful. Either way he is helped and I've contributed. See? It isn't that complicated
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            • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
              Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

              If a man is building a shed and wants help, I can contribute in one of two ways.

              1) I can roll up my sleeves and start helping him build it.
              2) I can pay for someone to build it for him.

              Both options are equally valid and just as helpful. Either way he is helped and I've contributed. See? It isn't that complicated
              Now your talking,Your very right.
              In both examples you have helped and did not receive.
              You gave and was not expecting anything in return"contribution"

              The $40 Wso example? Well you got what you paid for, but you didn't contribute.
              Yes it isn't that complicated at all
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              • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
                Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

                Now your talking,Your very right.
                In both examples you have helped and did not receive.
                You gave and was not expecting anything in return"contribution"

                The $40 Wso example? Well you got what you paid for, but you didn't contribute.
                Yes it isn't that complicated at all
                You are saying it doesn't count as contributing if you get something back in return?

                Yet your whole premise for this is that they should 'contribute' so that they make more sales - thus getting something in return.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        I completely disagree with all due respect,
        Take a moment of your time and read the translation Here
        Creating products is a contribution, particularly if the product is useful in some way to the people who buy. There's no rule that you have to contribute to the forum in any other way and a lot don't. That's their business model and obviously, because we're talking about top selling WSOs, it works well for them.

        You don't have to post articles to take out an ad in the newspaper or TV, etc. Same thing. It's an ad. My only point is the reputation thing. Obviously, they don't need the additional sales that they might get by being visible in the forum and building a reputation, so it doesn't really matter to them that there are some, like myself, who prefer to buy from people I feel I "know" from the forum.

        I don't really feel there's any ethical argument to be made here. Just different strokes for different folks.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I don't have a problem with WSO sellers not actively participating in the chat part of this forum. Here's why:

    1. They are contributing monetarily. It takes money to run this forum and they contribute to that by paying fees to Allen.

    2. Every once in a while, there are some big dog marketers that pop in and drop a jewel on us at a very low price. These guys are busy building their businesses and don't have time to chat. They contribute by delivering something a lot of us want at a low price.

    3. I don't believe in the "I have 5,000 posts so my product should get more attention". The WSO section is a marketplace and the cream rises to the top. It doesn't matter how many times somebody clicked the thanks button when you gave them the URL to Aweber. If your product is good and you have taken the steps to get the word out there, you will make money selling it.
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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    I am with you on this, but the reason many have stuff to sell is they don't get involved in other peoples agendas and instead focus on their own task and goals, taking action and getting things done.

    As I say though giving a little time now and again to post would be great to see though and would say so much more about them.
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  • Profile picture of the author J50
    Makes me laugh people who concern themselves with the business of other people, that's their choice, their under absolutely no obligation to do so. If you want to do that, great, but that's your choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Daniel Clark View Post

      While I agree that post count does not reflect the quality of a product I do feel that new members to the WF would look upon a high post count as favourable when looking at a members product for the very reason this thread began, as a measure of contribution to the forum and link that to the product in turn creating an element of trust and belief in that marketer.
      This might be a valid argument if post count had anything to do with how much value a person adds to the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    I don't care about forum participation but at least support your product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    Look. Nobody...no company, no seller, nobody...owes you or anyone else anything. I don't see Amazon or ClickBank over here contributing, but you people are promoting their crap here 24/7.

    Should they not contribute something to this forum for all the money you goobers have made them?

    Sellers sell. I'd much rather have a seller just sell me something that actually works and that makes a difference instead of kissing my ass and trying to cater to my dumb questions on this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

      Sellers sell. I'd much rather have a seller just sell me something that actually works and that makes a difference instead of kissing my ass and trying to cater to my dumb questions on this forum.

      My vote for comment of the day

      Di
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

        My vote for comment of the day

        Di
        Joan is just secretly pandering to you with that comment so you will buy Di. Reverse psychology is at work here, we must remain vigilant!
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        • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
          Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

          Joan is just secretly pandering to you with that comment so you will buy Di. Reverse psychology is at work here, we must remain vigilant!

          Indeed we must Joe

          Di

          P.S. Not too sure about your new profile picture. Looks distinctly like a bathroom with you on the throne
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

            P.S. Not too sure about your new profile picture. Looks distinctly like a bathroom with you on the throne
            Why do I get the feeling that speculating on what ridiculous thing I'm doing in my avatar is going to become a meme?
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
              Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

              Why do I get the feeling that speculating on what ridiculous thing I'm doing in my avatar is going to become a meme?
              You can't make yourself a meme, it don't work like dat.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Michael D Forbes View Post

                You can't make yourself a meme, it don't work like dat.
                Thunder=Stolen . Now I'll never be internet famous.

                *Looks around* Oops we derailed this thread. Maybe the top non-contributing WSO sellers will sneak in while we mess around?
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

              Why do I get the feeling that speculating on what ridiculous thing I'm doing in my avatar is going to become a meme?
              So ... is it a bathroom? lol. Inquiring minds want to know.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                So ... is it a bathroom? lol. Inquiring minds want to know.
                Kitchen. That's a refrigerator behind me.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tenzo
                  Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                  Kitchen. That's a refrigerator behind me.
                  You mean you don't have a fridge in your bathroom? I thought you were a successful marketer!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    A copywriter is a very good example of a service that benefits from visibility in the forum.
                    Yeah...that too lol!

                    Originally Posted by Tenzo View Post

                    You mean you don't have a fridge in your bathroom? I thought you were a successful marketer!
                    I guess I"m not as big as I made myself out to be in my head. I'll get a fridge by the toilet someday....
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Collier
    I think Andy Fletcher is on point with his response.If someone have a wso and it seem like it will help me i don't care if they post i never look at there post but what they offer
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Kal Sallam, i get your point.

    However, how many things do you buy where the owner or creator actually has personal interactions the way you are asking wso sellers to?

    I realize that for many if not most of the wso sellers, they are the "brand" which does make it a little different. But they are also producing a commodity that in many cases people want to buy.

    if i need web hosting or an autoresponder service, i go looking for a solution to my needs. I don't look for the owner who is posting the most in a forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author denhinn
    Money comes and goes life is too short and no matter how much you make you cant be entirely happy if you don't contribute back. Thing about it is once you are gone someone else will spend it, but you teach someone something and your legacy will be passed down from one generation to the next.
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  • The Warrior Forum has outgrown its "forum" or "community" beginnings to move to a "marketplace" nature. As a result, those top WSO-sellers treat it as a place to do business, not as a place of social interaction.

    Nothing wrong with that in my book.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashloren
    As I thought more about this topic, I sort of realized something...

    Has anyone ever written fan mail to their favorite actor or musician? If so, did you ever hear back from them...? Probably not, right?

    I guess that probably doesn't mean that they don't appreciate you as a fan...it just means that they get a TON of letters on a daily basis and couldn't answer each one individually even if they wanted to. It's just unrealistic.

    Now, that person may have been very responsive when they were still up and coming. But at a certain point, it just becomes out of scope for them.

    Obviously the example is a bit of a stretch, but still....
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

      Obviously the example is a bit of a stretch, but still....
      I wouldn't call it too much of a stretch at all actually, except that the "celebrity" status of some of the WSO sellers is more self-described than earned lol. The analogy to just not having the time is spot on though. People don't live on the internet guys, and running a successful online business can take a lot of time.

      Some people just don't prioritize posting, and there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has a life, and does with their free time whatever they choose. I'm not going to try and dictate what activities they need to perform to sell on here. They follow the rules and help pay for the forum. That's enough for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        I wouldn't call it too much of a stretch at all actually, except that the "celebrity" status of some of the WSO sellers is more self-described than earned lol. The analogy to just not having the time is spot on though. People don't live on the internet guys, and running a successful online business can take a lot of time.

        Some people just don't prioritize posting, and there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has a life, and does with their free time whatever they choose. I'm not going to try and dictate what activities they need to perform to sell on here. They follow the rules and help pay for the forum. That's enough for me.
        Look at it a different way then. Are they missing another opportunity at new customers by NOT posting here? As stated already by many in this thread.... many of us only buy based on people we know, or people who show their offers in there signature. So one could argue, posting on a forum which is heavily tied into the WSO sub-forum should be considered part of their normal business activity.

        We aren't talking about a completely different business model (like people saying "well Clickbank and Amazon don't post here but people still do business with them"). That's missing the mark completely. The WSO sub-forum doesn't exist without the Warrior Forum. One could argue the warrior forum wouldn't exist without the WSO sub-forum either.

        The question then in my mind is.... is the separation and isolation a good or bad thing for all parties involved?
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

          The question then in my mind is.... is the separation and isolation a good or bad thing for all parties involved?
          It probably isn't the ideal way to go about things; but the separation and isolation is certainly a manageable way for things to go.

          If you're asking for my personal opinion, I would side with you. If I ever choose to venture into the WSO section with the intent to buy, I'm buying from someone I know and someone who contributes.

          Guys and gals like us don't make up the entire market though. Apparently for a lot of buyers forum participation is not a deciding factor. A big reason for this is because a lot of buyers these days are non-members. Why should they give a **** if the guy doing the selling posts in the main forum? They don't. All they care about is that the list they are on sent them there and they want the product/service the guy is offering.

          It can definitely seem sucky to us forum regulars who want things to run like the ideal community; but that's life.
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            ...the guy selling posts in the main forum?
            Umm, I've never met the guy selling posts in the main forum or on any forum for that matter. Is that legal?

            Sorry Joe, I tried, but I just couldn't resist. Once that idea formed in my mind, it just wouldn't go away! It held me captive and was threatening torture if I didn't post it.

            I do feel better now though.

            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Umm, I've never met the guy selling posts in the main forum or on any forum for that matter. Is that legal?

              Sorry Joe, I tried, but I just couldn't resist. Once that idea formed in my mind, it just wouldn't go away! It held me captive and was threatening torture if I didn't post it.

              I do feel better now though.

              Terra
              The Terra-izer
              Living up to your name I see .
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                Living up to your name I see .
                LOL Joe!

                Actually, that was a nickname given to me years ago when I used to run a rewrite service. Repeat clients started asking me to Terra-ize pieces for them and eventually started calling me the Terra-izer.

                But it works in this instance too.

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

                  P.S Joe Robinson..do you actually do any work or just post s*** all day?...
                  A copywriter is a very good example of a service that benefits from visibility in the forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        I think what the OP is missing, as well as a few other folks, is that the WSO section is not necessarily a part of the greater Warrior Forum community anymore. It took me a long time to realize this, but it's true.

        Often WSO sellers aren't trying to sell to the community here and therefore, they have no reason to interact. It's been said time and time again that most buyers are not coming from the forum now. They're coming from affiliates more than anything else.

        Then there are the Warrior Forum community members, like Suzanne and myself. We buy from people's signatures more than we do by going to the WSO section. Our buying decisions are based more on what we feel by interacting with the seller and how knowledgeable that person has shown themselves to be.

        The WSO section is its own separate community now. There is some crossover, of course, but by and large, it is just a marketplace like any other marketplace on the web.

        You can rail against it all you want but it's not going back to the way it used to be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alminc
    I was thinking for a moment that I should support the message in the OP that top wso sellers should even contribute to the forum, but no, I won't.

    The only point I agree with is that 'it looks bad'. But only IF you care about them contributing.

    To my opinion, if they provide really good products that so many people are willing to buy, that's good enough to me. I mean if they provide GOOD products at a wso price (low price) why should I complain? Those guys are already useful.

    We are talking about two different kinds of people - there are contributors at heart and there are sellers at heart. One of the main reasons why some guys become top sellers is beacause they are sellers at heart, they function that way even when they sleep. They are not 'nice guys' (unless acting 'nice guy' would help them sell more), but as long as they are not cheating and selling crap, I see no reason to call them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    P.S Joe Robinson..do you actually do any work or just post s*** all day?...
    At my prices it takes an hour or two a day to hit my needed income, so I have time to kill lol. Plus I do other productive stuff while posting, doesn't exactly take 110% focus :rolleyes:.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Foster
    I"m sure this will make me unpopular, but you need to consider the product creators stand point too.

    Money is of course object #1... and if you think that's wrong - marketing isn't for you.

    But that's not really what's stopping people from writing big long helpful posts. Those posts DO equate to sales down the road, so there is a benefit to doing them.

    The issue is that most truly helpful posts get pushed off the first page at break neck speed because 30 people are "what's the best WP plug in to have on my blog", "how can I make $10k by this weekend with no investment" and the dozens of other crap posts that are repeated daily.

    If you're going to take issue, do it with the people who won't take a couple minutes to see if someone else has asked a similiar question to theirs (before they post it).... not the WSO product creators.
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    • Profile picture of the author thedanbrown
      Originally Posted by James Foster View Post

      I"m sure this will make me unpopular, but you need to consider the product creators stand point too.

      Money is of course object #1... and if you think that's wrong - marketing isn't for you.

      But that's not really what's stopping people from writing big long helpful posts. Those posts DO equate to sales down the road, so there is a benefit to doing them.

      The issue is that most truly helpful posts get pushed off the first page at break neck speed because 30 people are "what's the best WP plug in to have on my blog", "how can I make $10k by this weekend with no investment" and the dozens of other crap posts that are repeated daily.

      If you're going to take issue, do it with the people who won't take a couple minutes to see if someone else has asked a similiar question to theirs (before they post it).... not the WSO product creators.
      I agree with your perspective. Although the people who regularly have 5 and 6 figure wso launches do not regularly contribute to the forum they are just conducting business. There are product creators who have been Internet Marketing for years and years but just found the WF recently. Now, if I was one of them I probably would not contribute too much to the actual discussions on here either. I would just look at the forum as a large target market for my products or services and use it to my advantage.

      Really, it all comes down to what type of person you are I think. Some big name marketers actually like coming on here and answering peoples questions. They know it gives them a good reputation and will result in more sales down the road. However, posting all the time is not convenient or beneficial to other marketers.

      I do think that they should at least get their VA to make a few posts though lol...
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  • Profile picture of the author michaeljcheney
    Great post! :-)

    Yes it's definitely a timing thing also - there has to be a balance of being on Forums learning, contributing, helping, developing and actually being out there doing the business.

    I try to balance it though it can be tricky because I find myself getting addicted to the Warrior Forum and over the years that's exactly what I've cautioned my coaching students about! :-)

    But totally with you - it's a GIVERS' GAIN philosophy that will see the best business people win out at the end of the day. You can't just take.

    On this note, anyone feel free to PM me and I'll give you my $15.99, 50,000 word book for free. There you go - I did it! ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    Steve Jobs created a really nice phone. I didn't buy it because I was upset at his lack of participation in the iPhone forums. Phooey...
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  • Profile picture of the author misswahm
    I think from now on, sellers of WSOs on WF need to specify how many forum posts their product comes with so that everyone knows what they are paying for & no one will feel swindled. They can sell it as a forum posts/product bundle
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  • Profile picture of the author ddev
    I personally think that if a WSO seller is selling things (scripts / software etc) that add value to warriors, that's more than enough (some names are coming to my mind) and don't see why we should ask for more.

    Their role is that. Anything else will be surely welcome but without them, things would not be the same. Just my 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author Reez1
    Kal sallam you are very right. I have also seen many users on WF who have had so much success with this forum by their WSO, and they don't even take a few minutes to try and contribute to the forums. It's as if they are using this forums just for their sake and don't have any other purpose then "Sell my WSO, make money". Honestly, in my personal perceptive, I would have a much higher chance of purchasing something from someone who has given time to this forum, who has been contributing information, and who does not only use this forums just for the sake of making money. I do quite frankly understand that's the main reason of them to come here, but really? Come on, these forums are making you a living, try to at least spend a few minutes helping people out here and there. These are just my thoughts on this whole situation.
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  • Profile picture of the author makingiants
    if you find yourself buying WSOs from these folks, you're
    only justifying what they already believe: they don't have
    to contribute. They can just post an interesting WSO, then
    watch the money pour in. Eventually, they'll be found out...Maybe.

    Vince aka makingiants
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Wow! What a lot of responses and I'm sure mine may get lost amongst all the others but I just wanted to call it how I see it.

    Think about it this way. I've seen people with 1 post, 5 posts, etc. launch WSOs and make 1000s of sales on just one WSO, not to mention their follow-ups. I am not exaggerating either!

    Unless it's made a requirement to not post a WSO unless you have xxx amount of posts, I don't see that changing. Some will contribute in the regular forum, some won't.

    But when someone comes in and with affiliates behind their WSO launch, makes 1000s of sales and only has 5 posts on the main forum, what motivation do they have to go and make a bunch of posts on the regular forum?

    The only motivation would be if they're bored and/or want to chat for fun. Or to help others, as was the motivation for this thread. But really, I think it's much ado about nothing and just a bunch of opinions unless the man in charge decides to change something.
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  • Profile picture of the author Soflyy
    I'm too busy making products that Warriors use to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

    Now recently it caught my attention that there is a pretty good number of
    Top WSO Sellers who don't contribute to the forum At All!
    I am rather of the opinion that being a top WSO seller is contributing to the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author sanjon
    In the first Instance I already feel that this place is saturated and Over crowded.

    I can see many people launching their own WSO'S and having tons and tons of reviews but actually the methods dont simply work or we are being fooled.

    A few Internet marketers might just come out and give testimonials on their friends WSO.

    I have see a Whole gang literally flooding a thread with Testimonials and later on the product actually was not upto the expectations considering it was being promoted by those Gurus !!

    Apart from this, yes we dont see most Internet marketers coming over here and engaging in conversations and
    their GF says- "Honey, we need to pay this month's Bills",
    The person sits and rehashes a old stuff in 45 miutes, asks his friends to promote the product and Voila a Brand New WSO Launch.

    Honestly, they should interact more and more here.

    Will R is someone I have seen many times engaging with people.

    Rest of them, I cant actually say.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    This is how I see it which is why I couldn't personally make a thread like this. Although this is not the objective reality of things, just because its possible, I'm not complaining.

    Business man starts WSO, say for a coaching program. Customers pay, he spends time helping them by coaching them.

    Say that same man listened to this thread, and came on these forums to post, he is now taking away time that could have been spent HELPING PAYING CUSTOMERS that much more. If you bought that WSO, would you REALLY want your guru to come to the forums to help strangers?

    So apart of me wonders, maybe there are some people selling wsos, who are putting a lot of time on customer service, and would rather devote more time to helping their customers than helping strangers who don't seem as interested in what they have to sell.

    Other guys however sell things and have no customer service at all. No help on the side. Just sell **** and run. Its those types I don't respect. But just because the first possibility exists, I can't get too hung up about it. I have no idea how these guys ACTUALLY spend their time, so who does that make me to comment about it?

    -Red
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      So apart of me wonders, maybe there are some people selling wsos, who are putting a lot of time on customer service, and would rather devote more time to helping their customers
      Personally, I do a BUTTLOAD of research.

      When I'm building a product about, say, how to set up a blog... I set up dozens of blogs from scratch, taking notes, testing ideas, getting screenshots and video of the process, posting on the blogs, etc.

      While it might only take me a few hours to write it all down, it takes weeks or months to get the information I need to write down.

      When I do a video component to the product, it's live. I literally have to sit down and do the entire thing in one take, beginning to end, without error. This can take fifteen or twenty tries to get right, so that five-minute video actually takes an hour or two just to record, and then just as long to process into a usable MP4. An hour of video literally takes a whole week.

      In the end, a quality product takes about three to four months, and if I'm lucky I can make about a thousand sales. I like to set my price in the $20 to $40 range, with 50% commission, so I end up with at best about $15k - and, at worst, nothing at all.

      Right now, I "lose" some 3/4 of the time, so I'm pulling about $15k... a year.

      And if you want to talk this year, I am currently on track to make about $2k unless something changes drastically. Yes, that means I'm making less than $200 a month right now. Which means I can't use "look how much money I make" to sell anything - that approach doesn't really work very well for me, anyway, even when I do have a substantial income - which in turn means I am not (nor have I ever been) in the "make money online" industry.

      I'm closing up on the end of a product development cycle right now, though, so who knows? There might be $15k in my immediate future. But the weeks and months I spend away from the forum are largely because I'm working on a product in "heads down" mode.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author sammib01
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Personally, I do a BUTTLOAD of research.

        When I'm building a product about, say, how to set up a blog... I set up dozens of blogs from scratch, taking notes, testing ideas, getting screenshots and video of the process, posting on the blogs, etc.

        While it might only take me a few hours to write it all down, it takes weeks or months to get the information I need to write down.

        When I do a video component to the product, it's live. I literally have to sit down and do the entire thing in one take, beginning to end, without error. This can take fifteen or twenty tries to get right, so that five-minute video actually takes an hour or two just to record, and then just as long to process into a usable MP4. An hour of video literally takes a whole week.

        In the end, a quality product takes about three to four months, and if I'm lucky I can make about a thousand sales. I like to set my price in the $20 to $40 range, with 50% commission, so I end up with at best about $15k - and, at worst, nothing at all.

        Right now, I "lose" some 3/4 of the time, so I'm pulling about $15k... a year.

        And if you want to talk this year, I am currently on track to make about $2k unless something changes drastically. Yes, that means I'm making less than $200 a month right now. Which means I can't use "look how much money I make" to sell anything - that approach doesn't really work very well for me, anyway, even when I do have a substantial income - which in turn means I am not (nor have I ever been) in the "make money online" industry.

        I'm closing up on the end of a product development cycle right now, though, so who knows? There might be $15k in my immediate future. But the weeks and months I spend away from the forum are largely because I'm working on a product in "heads down" mode.
        CD, sometimes you are too honest. You are a great guy and we all love you here. I see you everywhere I go on this forum and we comment on each others "incredably intellegent" statements... well maybe sometimes the lack of, but whos counting.

        It is always good to hear from you and I for one KNOW youmean what you say.

        Just want to say thanks, for the time you spend here and the great comments.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        When I do a video component to the product, it's live. I literally have to sit down and do the entire thing in one take, beginning to end, without error. This can take fifteen or twenty tries to get right, so that five-minute video actually takes an hour or two just to record, and then just as long to process into a usable MP4. An hour of video literally takes a whole week.
        Oh, man, if you're doing it this way you really need to rethink your process. That's what "editing" is for. Record the raw material then outsource the work to a video editor like myself, who will take out all the mistakes and make you look like the genius you are. Or find someone who will teach you how to do it yourself.

        Sorry, but this was just too painful to let pass by.

        And now, back to the pointless sniping about WSO sellers!
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post

          That's what "editing" is for.
          No, "editing" is for videos that are NOT done live in a single take from beginning to end without errors.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            No, "editing" is for videos that are NOT done live in a single take from beginning to end without errors.
            I'm curious what value you think your end customer gets out of doing it this way.

            It makes sense for live TV but when it's a distributed recording does your customer care that you did it "in a single take from beginning to end without errors'?
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            • Profile picture of the author sammib01
              Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

              I'm curious what value you think your end customer gets out of doing it this way.

              It makes sense for live TV but when it's a distributed recording does your customer care that you did it "in a single take from beginning to end without errors'?
              Sorry to put in my 2 cents... well maybe 1 cent, I do not speak for CD but I can say for myself doing it in one take has a flow, a feeling and you can feel it when you watch it and that is priceless when you are in the flow.
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

              I'm curious what value you think your end customer gets out of doing it this way.
              It requires me to know my material cold. Not just during the video, but in general.

              So if I'm in a forum, and someone asks a question about something I've covered in a product, I am clean and polished and ready to drop science straight off the cuff. Same if I'm in a webinar. Or doing an interview. Or at a live event. Or just standing in line at Starbuck's.

              There's never any stammering or stumbling or "um, er, uh, well, um, I did, um, something about that in, um, this product, um, I think it was, um..." or any of that crap.

              And yes, I'm aware most people don't care about actually being the expert they play on video. I do. Because live, in person, and unscripted is where I intend to go... and this "editing" thing doesn't work there. "Good enough" isn't.
              Signature
              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author sammib01
                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                It requires me to know my material cold. Not just during the video, but in general.

                So if I'm in a forum, and someone asks a question about something I've covered in a product, I am clean and polished and ready to drop science straight off the cuff. Same if I'm in a webinar. Or doing an interview. Or at a live event. Or just standing in line at Starbuck's.

                There's never any stammering or stumbling or "um, er, uh, well, um, I did, um, something about that in, um, this product, um, I think it was, um..." or any of that crap.

                And yes, I'm aware most people don't care about actually being the expert they play on video. I do. Because live, in person, and unscripted is where I intend to go... and this "editing" thing doesn't work there. "Good enough" isn't.
                I agree with the knowing you product. I speak my script (someitmes just in my head, not even on paper) to people on my team to get feedback. It makes me think on the fly and I come up with great ideas,,, well for me great. I also get to know the product inside and out which is important and a must if you are selling something. Good enough is for thoughs who want to come in second or lower.
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          • Profile picture of the author sammib01
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            No, "editing" is for videos that are NOT done live in a single take from beginning to end without errors.
            Editing is the proccess of post production, but I agree if you can do it in one take you are saving alot of time later. It is a matter of how you look at it. The video must be finished and made ready for broadcast.

            I am with you though, I love to do it all in one take. I feel the flow and the energy is good and if it is chop chop...cut cut it loses the feeling and the flow.
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        • Profile picture of the author sammib01
          Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post

          Oh, man, if you're doing it this way you really need to rethink your process. That's what "editing" is for. Record the raw material then outsource the work to a video editor like myself, who will take out all the mistakes and make you look like the genius you are. Or find someone who will teach you how to do it yourself.

          Sorry, but this was just too painful to let pass by.

          And now, back to the pointless sniping about WSO sellers!
          Sorry CD but I will have to agree. Although I also do most of my videos in one take, if it does not work I will cut and paste the material and do the rest in the post production, well my team does it... and I feel sorry for them sometimes cleaning up my sh**.

          I have done literally hundereds of videos for companies in Europe, US and places unknown I learn my text of wing-it at times. Post production is the place where it all comes together but it most fit seamlessly so that it looks and feels natural.
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  • Profile picture of the author williamk
    Banned
    I always wondered that. if they are so knowledgeable then they should contribute some posts too. They shouldnt sell everything. It seems more like that they are salesman of some sort.
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  • Profile picture of the author sammib01
    Many people are only in it for the money. They are not interested in making freinds contacting people or commenting on what they think are "senseless Forums". They are however the first to monetize on those forums. They see the benefits but not the obligation or responsability to interact or communicate with their customers and colleges. Although these people will make money they will in the ebd not be the leaders and decision makers of the group. A groups leaders are those who have their finger in the pulse and can feel what others are feeling, think what others are thinking and have impathy because they really care and know where you are coming from.

    The world is full of both of these types of people those who ask and listen and those who do not. Apple is growing so fast because they listen... well most of the time, and they know what people want and will use and be willing to pay for. I know I own almost everything they have ever put out.

    Only you can decide to which you will be a part of. I believe in most cases the listeners will win in the end.

    This is only my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Oosha
    In response to the OP....

    I love this place and I've seen it grow over the years. We have a great marketplace where sellers can come along and sell their wares, and the number of people who list their products for sale has multiplied over the years.

    In the WF Seller partnership, the main beneficiary has always been the seller because of the huge popularity of the forum. Product/service owners take advantage of the thousands of enthusiastic buyers that frequent WF.

    But they don't necessarily have the same mindset as those of us who have spent hours on end learning from here have. For them it's just a matter of using a highly trafficked marketplace to their benefit.

    If these WSO sellers don't choose to contribute voluntarily to the forum discussions, that's their prerogative. The fact that they are selling their products here shows their confidence in the Warrior Forum and we must respect that.
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    I believe in taking the time to do something right, the first time. Need Content? Get in touch.

    WSO: Insane CPA Cash Flow - KILLER CPA techniques.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    I got to admit my respect for CDarkLock right now is higher than anyone else on this forum.

    You can also tell how polished he really is just by his responses in this thread. Best of luck on your next product release man I want to see you make MORE than $15 grand. You definitely deserve it.

    -Red
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  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    I think it's just a 'norm' or a 'something that's happening in unison' that you need to give to get. It's a voluntary act to contribute or not to contribute, regardless if you're earning big or not, and regardless if you have a WSO or not.

    In all fairness, we can't demand someone to check the Main Internet Marketing forum and answer at least 10 posts a day just because we're seeing the WSO owner earning a lot. If that WSOer would like to contribute to the community by answering posts or questions, then, that's a great act of kindness of 'making' the time to contribute despite of the WSOers busy activities. If the WSOer can't find the time to contribute, neither did we lose a thing nor did it harm us a bit.

    We can't control the un-controllable. We can only control what we own. We don't control the minds of WSOers but we control ourselves, attitude, mentality, perception, and ability to find other resources when the ones we are expecting to contribute do not.

    WSOers are not obliged to contribute. I am not a WSOer and yet 95% of my posts are not responses for inquiries made on our thread in the WFH section for our writing services. We cannot control others. We can control ourselves.
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