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Would You Use PayPal to Sign Into Accounts on Other Websites?

by kindsvater
41 replies
The other day I was checking out DigiBilly.com, a new ecommerce service to manage digital product delivery and affiliate payments, and it had an account signup feature I had not seen before.

Instead of creating a username and password, you log in to your PayPal account and then PayPal sends you back to DigiBilly to manage your products and promotions.

Sort of like using a Facebook account to sign into another website.

Is this the wave of the future to reduce the number of needed login accounts across the web?

Maybe it is because it is PayPal, but it made my skin crawl logging into PayPal in order to access another site. I've seen more than enough client "issues" over the years to have concerns about the company.

Or is this a non-issue for you and having one login and making use of PayPal's state of the art security a great feature?

.
#accounts #paypal #sign #websites
  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    To answer in short, no, I probably would not.

    The same way I don't use facebook to log in to other sites when they ask me to.

    However, I suspect the majority would. At least, I suspect the majority of facebookers log in to other sites with their facebook accounts.

    But for me, it's just too much connectivity.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i only use my dummy FB account for all those. maybe its secure, but all those seems scary to me. I don't think the scammers have figured out how to exploit them yet, but i can't help but think they will.

    we always give advice to only login to paypal.com and to never click links to get to paypal.

    I just don't like that stuff. Seems like it would be easy to miss a link to paypaI.com instead of paypal.com. Then your info is in the hand of who knows who.
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    • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
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      It seems to be on the increase in the UK . . . some large fast food delivery service I accessed last week was the latest to get you to complete your order this way. Wary, scary, and a bit unsure though.
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        No way I would sign into a site using another one where they hold my bank details.

        I don't mind using my Facebook/Twitter to account to sign into places.
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  • Profile picture of the author so11
    Hello,

    It really depends.

    What it really means is a cross-site/service authentication. Basically you are proving your identity to another service.

    If we take Paypal and Digibilly, basically you prove your e-identity to digibilly service using paypal.

    Now, Paypal is respected company, so normally the way it should be in place is as follows : there is no actual personal data that transered over internet. When you are authenticated to Paypal there is a security token generated which is then passed to another service as Digibilly. Everything is secure and you actually prove to Digibilly that you are a trusted customer with identified credentials. Digibilly respects Paypal, so its sais, hey Paypal trusts this customer and the customer is already authenticated, so I'll just get the token and grant access to my service. that's all.

    Another way to say it, it is a Single Signon solution. Yes, very practical for users, yes there are security issues...

    So, now if you got a real business, there should be no problem doing this. If you have 25 e-identities with doutables products, than stick to you "anonymous" stuff ... because if you are banned, you might be in trouble.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    It would be an issue with me. There is no money tied to my Facebook account, but there is with Paypal. I would never log into a non-Paypal website to get access to it using my Paypal account. I have no way of verifying what they're doing with it.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author creativesweb
    Hello kindsvater,

    I wouldn't have a problem to use paypal as a login gateway for e-commerce sites. It makes sense. It's like facebook login for sites that are social or have other niche. Chances are you are going to buy something if you are login in an e-commerce so why not have all the shipping info and payment info in hand already? You wouldn't have to enter all your info everytime you want to buy something. It works
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    • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
      I would NEVER log-in to any site using my paypal, except paypal. That seems way sketchy to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author so11
        Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

        I would NEVER log-in to any site using my paypal, except paypal. That seems way sketchy to me.
        I think you are missing the point...

        You always log-in into Paypal (it is paypal that receives and verifies information). When Paypal says, Yes its you, its sends the OK to another service.

        That's all!
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        • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
          Originally Posted by so11 View Post

          I think you are missing the point...

          You always log-in into Paypal (it is paypal that receives and verifies information). When Paypal says, Yes its you, its sends the OK to another service.

          That's all!
          You go ahead then...I'll pass.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Originally Posted by so11 View Post

          I think you are missing the point...

          You always log-in into Paypal (it is paypal that receives and verifies information). When Paypal says, Yes its you, its sends the OK to another service.

          That's all!
          There's no way of verifying that it IS the actual Paypal website unless you go to the actual Pay Pal site first and then get transferred over for access to another 3rd party website. That's the only way I would do it.

          However, in the OP's example, it's not clear how the example website is set up. It's an "account signup feature", so if it's part of the 3rd party website and one had to log into Paypal on their website, there's no way in hell I would ever do that.

          I just wanted to make that one distinction. Though I'm not comfortable using my Paypal account to use as an account set up and password for a 3rd party website.

          RoD
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          • Profile picture of the author so11
            Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

            There's no way of verifying that it IS the actual Paypal website unless you go to the actual Pay Pal site first and then get transferred over for access to another 3rd party website. That's the only way I would do it.

            However, in the OP's example, it's not clear how the example website is set up. It's an "account signup feature", so if it's part of the 3rd party website and one had to log into Paypal on their website, there's no way in hell I would ever do that.

            I just wanted to make that one distinction. Though I'm not comfortable using my Paypal account to use as an account set up and password for a 3rd party website.

            RoD

            I agree with you all, it is little tricky....

            But, Yes you can verify the authenticity of the authentication page.

            Digital Certificate is one of them and you actually land directly to PayPal page.

            And, hey, if you are not compfortable with this, dont use it
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            • Profile picture of the author Cali16
              I'm with Rod on this one. I would not be comfortable with it. Granted, I'm not familiar with Digibilly, but I would prefer a separate login rather than having to log in to my PayPal account first.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zults
    It should be fine as long as your logging into paypal directly from that website.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      I don't think Mike's out to scam us.
      Maybe not Mike; but you certainly just hit me where it hurts with your signature. I want the hoverboard outside of my dreams . *Cries*

      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      The reason we took this approach is twofold:
      1. PayPal manages all of the security for us - there's zero risk of us being hacked and the account info/credentials being stolen.
      2. It ensures that every Merchant and Affiliate has a VERIFIED Business/Premier account to help eliminate the scamming taking place.
      Makes sense now.
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Maybe not Mike; but you certainly just hit me where it hurts with your signature. I want the hoverboard outside of my dreams . *Cries*
        Haha, me too. But it still feels real in a LD and I can't die. That's enough for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I must have missed this thread - Digibilly, which is one of our systems, uses PayPal Authentication Services to manage account security.

      I can appreciate Brian's original comments as well as the follow up ones, so let me help all of you to understand what this is, how and why it works the way it does.

      For those of you unfamiliar with it, it works like this (taken from page 5 of the Digibilly User Guide):

      [COLOR="Navy"][I]Digibilly uses PayPal's Account Authentication Services to manage our user accounts. This means that you log into your PayPal account whenever you want to access your Digibilly account.

      PayPal in turn, Authenticates you as a Digibilly user and provides us with limited, identifying information about you. For the sake of transparency, the following information is provided to us and stored at Digibilly: ... snip ...
      I'm late to this thread, but I'd like to point out one BIG matter in all this. Paypal is PCI compliant, which is a VERY expensive undertaking to maintain, with annual security audits and such, by outside auditors.

      Any time you buy from a vendor using your Paypal account, you face the same risk as you would face with Digibilly, knowing that you were sent to the true Paypal site. If you can't handle that risk, then you should not use Paypal, at all. Paypal allows Digibilly to store your contact information. Notice, I said contact information, Paypal does not release your access information.

      PCI compliance is a big expense, and that is why marketers use merchant accounts and transfer services such as Paypal.

      So there, two years after the thread started, is my two cents worth.

      Kirk Ward
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    It does make more sense now that you've explained it.

    I didn't even realize it was your system.

    I don't think Mike's out to scam us.
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  • Profile picture of the author philrich21
    I'm with rod & j on this also.

    I don't like all the pass through authentication, I'm sure its secure or it would'nt be allowed but it is tracking a usage pattern and profiling your usage which is what I object to
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  • Profile picture of the author Blame It On The Caffeine
    One everyone gets used to clicking on the PayPal sign in button, it will make phishing all that much easier.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    As a seller, I wouldn't use it because of the perceived security issue. (Thinking of affiliates)

    I haven't seen other sites using it and I think that's for a reason.

    Garrie
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  • Profile picture of the author Resale Rights Ninja
    No - Thats crazy
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Instead of creating a username and password, you log in to your PayPal account and then PayPal sends you back to DigiBilly to manage your products and promotions.

    Sort of like using a Facebook account to sign into another website.

    Is this the wave of the future to reduce the number of needed login accounts across the web?
    Facebook is a nothing trash account of mine. It gets hacked... it sucks and is annoying... but I'm not compromised at all. Paypal gets hacked... it's a BIG deal. One costs me real tangible money... the other doesn't. So to answer the question: No, I'd never login with Paypal as the login gateway.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      I want to state emphatically, that through this process Digibilly does NOT gain access to your PayPal account or any information except what I mentioned
      That's not my concern, although as a general proposition that would be important for customers. What is the flip side as to what PayPal has access to and what do they do with that information?

      I trust Big Mike with my info. eBay/PayPal is a different matter.

      It is rare something online "bothers" me days after I have encountered it, but this login process did, ultimately resulting in the thread. I trust Big Mike. Big Mike trusts PayPal. So should I trust PayPal? I still have to answer no. Is anything and everything I have in my DigiBilly account is accessible to PayPal?

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    I'm with fin on this. Its one thing to sign in with Facebook and another to sign in with Paypal. They have my bank information.
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  • Profile picture of the author J. Barry Mandel
    Facebook, yes.

    Paypal, NO.

    I would never allow a site to access my financial information.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Even after Bike Mike explained it, people still don't get it. From a developers point, that kinda says something.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Sort of like using a Facebook account to sign into another website.

    Is this the wave of the future to reduce the number of needed login accounts across the web?

    Maybe it is because it is PayPal, but it made my skin crawl logging into PayPal in order to access another site. I've seen more than enough client "issues" over the years to have concerns about the company.

    Or is this a non-issue for you and having one login and making use of PayPal's state of the art security a great feature?

    .

    When I saw your headline, my gut instinct was, "Hell no!!"

    Then I saw what you were talking about...

    LOL

    The only reason your skin crawled when you saw this is because you don't understand the technology at work behind the scenes.

    You are not giving your PayPal login credentials to DigiBilly. You are logging into PayPal, and giving PayPal permission to complete certain tasks on your behalf through the DigiBilly platform.

    When you go through that process, you are taken to PayPal to login and give permissions, then PayPal will send a security key to DigiBilly that has been customized specifically for you to be used exclusively by DigiBilly.

    This is a non-issue from a PayPal security standpoint, unless you don't like the nature of the permissions you are being asked to give to DigiBilly.

    As far as having one login across multiple platforms, it is a really nice feature I believe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Venkat001
    It appears as the risk strategy for me because if anything gets messed up there are chances that your Paypal account gets cancelled.
    I just prefer to have the login on the website only.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    The thing that some people may not be realizing here is that in order to sell other people's products through the affiliate program at Warrior Plus or JV Zoo, we had to click that PayPal Permissions button to give each permission to transact refunds on our behalf.

    The only thing that DigiBilly seems to be doing different is getting your permission key from PayPal in lieu of creating unique login credentials for DigiBilly. Otherwise, we are talking apples and apples here.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i guess my only issue is not really with paypal, but rather with how easily this could be faked.

    we have all seen the fake paypal emails leading to fake paypal sites. what if the link on the site is not to Paypal, but rather to paypalauthentication.com or some other rogue copycat site.

    you click the link and get taken to a rogue site that looks just like paypal and they make the process look perfect. but you have just given your info away.

    If that happens to your paypal account, that is much worse than your FB account.

    in my opinion it breaks one of the cardinal rules of logging in to PP... ONLY login when you type the paypal in the address bar....never follow a link to paypal.

    the spoofs are just too damn easy to miss.

    BTW, my concerns are not with digibilly, Big Mike, or even PP. rather the idea that this could be faked.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    The only thing that DigiBilly seems to be doing different is getting your permission key from PayPal in lieu of creating unique login credentials for DigiBilly. Otherwise, we are talking apples and apples here.
    Not really.

    What if my PayPal is banned (lose billy data)?

    What if I want to have an employee list the products for sale but dont want them to have PP access?

    What if I am working in a foreign country, is PP going to flag that when I login because I forgot to tell them?

    etc.

    There are other reasons to want a seperate login.

    -g
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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        For once, I post this not for some epic stupid argument happening. Rather, I post it because an enjoyable, educational back and forth is actually occurring without bitching and moaning and name calling.
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        • Profile picture of the author yoheb
          No, I wouldn't trust it. Perhaps if it were an established method on multiple websites. But personally, I've never seen it before. But to each his own, I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Big Mike actually brings up a great point about clicking on "buy buttons". To be perfectly honest, I have never given that much thought at all. I will now though.

    Someone could sell a $2 report and have a fake payment login. They miss out on the $2 from the sale, but get my PP details.

    This internet thingy is a very scary place.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    yea, I have been online forever and I am sure i subconsciously notice more than i realize when it comes to that stuff.

    But i do think I let my gaurd down a bit when i click a buy now button and hit the standard paypal "login to complete your purchase page".

    I know I am not as "on gaurd" during those times as when ordering from a new merchant where i double check the security lock and http(s) stuff.

    I mean there really is no way to make sure your on a legit PP login page when you click a buy now button without just making double sure of the url. It just never occurred to me that people would go that route.

    I wonder if the browsers alert to that stuff at all. I doubt they do or maybe even that they could very easily.

    I know several ESP provide warnings about possible email phishing scams when non-"paypal" links are used in a traditional phishing email.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    If you don't want to give them PayPal access (which is rigidly controlled by feature), why on earth would you give them access to a system like this?
    Doesnt matter why. Your system doesnt give me the ability.

    No, of course not - but if your PayPal is banned, you can no longer sell through it...no different than JVZoo or W+, so it's a moot point.
    So paypal bans someone and that banned person will still be able to login to your system using PayPal? (There are other reasons to login besides to sell/promote. )
    Probably, but that's easily resolved - that's not a Digibilly issue...that's a user issue.
    Its not just a user issue. Its a billy issue because the tied it in w/ PP.
    Perhaps, but security is more important to us than making it easy for your account accessed by someone with malicious intents.
    How is this making it more secure? Its loging in. That doesnt secure the rest of the code on your site.

    Personally, I wont use it. Maybe others will.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Is this the wave of the future to reduce the number of needed login accounts across the web?
    Yep. The technology is actually really solid, and the risk is far lower than it would be if you had lots of accounts.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Given:

      > The fact that this applies to a specific service that I have the ability and opportunity to check out before using,and

      > The information that Mike has provided, and

      > My trust level built up over time with Incansoft and Big Mike

      I would, without hesitation, use PayPal to sign into Digibilly.

      Other sites? Maybe not so much...
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  • Profile picture of the author leedev
    With so many PayPal problems and account closings reported by so many,
    some key questions come to mind about this comapny -

    * Exactly what is PayPal's business and designation
    * Who issued their operating license and as what business
    * What does it allow/not allow
    * Under what state and federal laws does it operate in the US
    * Which regulatory agencies monitor activities and report on same
    * Have they paid fines, claims and compensation for their deeds

    many Warriors and marketers would benefit from accurate information form experts - thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
      Originally Posted by leedev View Post

      With so many PayPal problems and account closings reported by so many,
      some key questions come to mind about this comapny -

      * Exactly what is PayPal's business and designation
      * Who issued their operating license and as what business
      * What does it allow/not allow
      * Under what state and federal laws does it operate in the US
      * Which regulatory agencies monitor activities and report on same
      * Have they paid fines, claims and compensation for their deeds

      many Warriors and marketers would benefit from accurate information form experts - thanks.
      Paypal is a money transmitter. They are authorized to transmit money, just as Western Union and Moneygram do. They merely have a model that allows them to hold it until you ask for it. They take great care to maintain this model in order to avoid banking regulations.

      Transmitters, like banks, are regulated by the various states and the US federal government.

      Check out their terms of service for what they allow.

      Look up money transmitter regulations to see what agencies regulate them.

      I have no idea what fines they have paid, I think that is an irrelevant question. If you handle money, then at some time or another someone will sue you or you will be charged. The question should be "Have they had any SIGNIFICANT adverse judgements in RECENT time that HAS NOT been corrected?"
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