Who is the victim?

Of course you never said, neither have I said you've said it. I'm just saying WSO's people since they offer what you think is a scam, in logical sense.

I can just hire a copywriter to write up my million dollar idea and then hire designer to design the wso thread and the ebook and boom got a wso. Example of what you consider as a scam in your post

Originally Posted by Adie

Most WSO products are solid and real products.

How are you so sure about that?

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Adie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jordi

Of course you never said, neither have I said you've said it. I'm just saying WSO's people since they offer what you think is a scam, in logical sense.

I can just hire a copywriter to write up my million dollar idea and then hire designer to design the wso thread and the ebook and boom got a wso. Example of what you consider as a scam in your post

How are you so sure about that?

I purchased dozens of WSOs and I never found similar to what I described above. Although there might be some but unless I found something, I can't judge. And since you are suspicious, maybe you could reveal something?

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Jordi 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adie

I purchased dozens of WSOs and I never found similar to what I described above

That should be taken with a grain of salt. Nonetheless I wouldn't care much for it.

Originally Posted by Adie

And since you are suspicious, maybe you could reveal something?

Reveal what?
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- Adie 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Jordi
  
  That should be taken with a grain of salt. Nonetheless I wouldn't care much for it.
  
  Reveal what?
  
  I purchased products mostly offering services and not making money products that's why my statement that says I never encountered such scam products is justifiable..
  
  Reveal something you said scam WSOs..
  
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idoitbigtime

14 years ago

Most of the WSO of the MMO niche are Scam Execttly like most of the ClickBank Products

if you want to avoid this things you should google abot the products Etc

There are some Great Products and some Decent Gurus who are Helping to success

But the 99% is pure Scam' Check well who you Buy from and what and what will happen the day after

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Adie,

If you assume the seller is lying about their income, or how they make it, then both examples are fraud. No need to go further in that case.

If you assume the income claims are true, the first example is just aggressive marketing. You bought one thing and they are now asking you to buy another, which you can decline to do. You may not like that approach (I don't, personally), but there's no "victim" involved.

If I'm reading your second example correctly, that one is outright illegal in most places. The product is the pitch, so to speak.

Jordi,

I'm just saying WSO's people since they offer what you think is a scam, in logical sense.

It's generally considered wise to have at least a little clue before expressing a strong opinion on a subject.

Paul

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Jordi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adie

Reveal something you said scam WSOs..

I've never believed WSO's are scams, its just your logical senses implemented are saying these WSO's ARE scams.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Jordi,It's generally considered wise to have at least a little clue before expressing a strong opinion on a subject.

Paul

Paul

I've never expressed my views on this subject yet, I was just using his logic against him. So please no red herrings.

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Adie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jordi

I've never believed WSO's are scams, its just your logical senses implemented are saying these WSO's ARE scams.

We are not inside the court so using that logic is not appropriate. You might have typed it differently but I got what you mean and I don't need to explain myself further...

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Jordi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adie

We are not inside the court so using that logic is not appropriate. You might have typed it differently but I got what you mean and I don't need to explain myself further...

Court? That makes no sense but at least it good that you acknowledged your illogic's. Keeping this world in a better place

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Adie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jordi

Court? That makes no sense but at least it good that you acknowledged your illogic's. Keeping this world in a better place

Only lawyers uses such logic and we are not one of them...
Since you want to go further then I have to answer...

First you asked if we can blame people in Warrior Special Offer folder, and then you said, you never said WSOs are scams...

Unless you can explain 2 contradicting statements above, I will have my fingers rest...
I might have jumped into assumption but I have no doubt that I was right...

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Jordi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adie

Only lawyers uses such logic and we are not one of them...
Since you want to go further then I have to answer...

First you asked if we can blame people in Warrior Special Offer folder, and then you said, you never said WSOs are scams...

Unless you can explain 2 contradicting statements above, I will have my fingers rest...
I might have jumped into assumption but I have no doubt that I was right...

LOL how does asking a question state my side on one thing?

That's where you logic fails to meet.

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Adie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jordi

LOL how does asking a question state my side on one thing?

That's where you logic fails to meet.

You must have reasons why you asked such suspicious question, but since you can't explain then I consider this discussion irrelevant....

Now I have better things to do..

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Social App Zone 14 years ago

These are not the trolls you are looking for
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- Paul Myers 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Social App Zone
  
  These are not the trolls you are looking for
  
  [chuckle] I have a friend who's got a custom t-shirt that reads, "Dammit! Those WERE the droids we were looking for!"
  
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Jordi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

I know it ruins things, but you're going to have to explain that joke. It didn't land for us in the peanut gallery.

LOL this picture made my day

I'm actually glad you took the time to do this, other than that look at those darn infraction points on your troll status.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Jordi,I'm a lot harder than that to offend. Especially when I don't get the joke...

Paul

It's alright, I understand why you don't get it... It's best if you don't

Originally Posted by Adie

You must have reasons why you asked such suspicious question, but since you can't explain then I consider this discussion irrelevant....

Now I have better things to do..

Yes, the reason is why are you accusing and now you're saying you've purchased WSO's and they don't lie? I certainly don't get that logic. Other than that I think work is important, you must always tend to them.

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Joseph Robinson Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jordi

LOL this picture made my day I'm actually glad you took the time to do this, other than that look at those darn infraction points on your troll status.

Ooh, you hit the soft spot there. Those darn infractions (3 of 4 reversed too :rolleyes are the bane of my existence!
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- tpw 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Jordi
  
  LOL this picture made my day I'm actually glad you took the time to do this, other than that look at those darn infraction points on your troll status.
  
  Originally Posted by Joe Robinson
  
  Ooh, you hit the soft spot there. Those darn infractions (3 of 4 reversed too :rolleyes are the bane of my existence!
  
  Originally Posted by Jordi
  
  It's alright, I understand why you don't get it... It's best if you don't
  
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Adie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jordi

Yes, the reason is why are you accusing and now you're saying you've purchased WSO's and they don't lie? I certainly don't get that logic. Other than that I think work is important, you must always tend to them.

LOL, am I accusing? Am I the one who said "blame people in WSO folder"?..
..and now you are questioning even the WSOs in my possession? The WSOs that made me a better IMer? Are you asking me to give you free copies of these useful WSOs?... I hope not, because if you do, I will be in serious trouble for sharing things I don't need to....... LOL

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Jordi,

I've never expressed my views on this subject yet, I was just using his logic against him. So please no red herrings.

Sloppiest counter-logic effort I've seen in a while, then, but fair enough.

Paul
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- Jordi 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Jordi,Sloppiest counter-logic effort I've seen in a while, then, but fair enough.
  
  Paul
  
  You meant just like how you tried the first time because your ego decided to make an illogical statement before you make the assumption? Fail is fair, fail is fair
  
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Fraggler

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adie

How to avoid these? Stop buying to-hard-to believe promises...especially when the seller is saying that he is earning unbelievable figures per month.

Adie, the reason people fall for the second tactic might be the same reason they can't avoid them - they aren't thinking clearly when they purchase and are hoping that this is it. How can we help? Educating the customer is the best bet but I think most aren't exposed to communities like this where they can be warned or shown another path. Report people who are breaking the rules or law and help your own circle.

How do you protect yourself? Always make sure you are informed before buying. There's no real reason to buy anything that hasn't been reviewed and scrutinised by people you trust. Don't let scarcity pressure you into impulse buying. Buy solutions, not systems.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Adie,

If you assume the income claims are true, the first example is just aggressive marketing. You bought one thing and they are now asking you to buy another, which you can decline to do. You may not like that approach (I don't, personally), but there's no "victim" involved.

Paul, if you pay for a system and find out it isn't complete or as advertised then the buyer has been lied to. That's what I thought Adie was referring to.

Hmmm then again... if I paid Little Johnny $150 to see his technique for earning his big impressive income and in return Little Johnny handed over a list of products I must buy - have I been lied to?

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

Paul, if you pay for a system and find out it isn't complete or as advertised then the buyer has been lied to.

There's a big difference between "complete" and "as advertised." Most people make up what "complete" means in their heads, sometimes in direct opposition to what "as advertised" says in black and white.

The thing that blows my mind is that people say (or try) to "buy solutions, not systems," then complain that the solution you're selling isn't a system. Or, conversely, that the system you're selling isn't a solution.

I mean, I'll sell a product about "how to make a product," and people complain I didn't tell them what kind of product to make. I taught them how to make videos and take screenshots and record audio and save PDFs, but at no point in any of that did I tell them where to get an idea.

So I make another product about "how to get ideas for products," and people complain that I don't tell them how to make the product. Then I say "that's a different product, over there," and they say "well, that is some bull**** right there, because what good is an idea for a product if you don't know how to make the product?"

So I cross-promote, and have each one offered as an OTO on the other, complete with a discount. Then people complain that they didn't know there was going to be a bigger price tag on the back end, and I'm pulling a fast one on them.

So I wrap them up in one package, and people complain that they don't need the whole thing, they only need one part of it, and I'm just gouging them to charge for stuff they never wanted.

So I pull them off the market entirely and say "there you go, nothing to complain about now" and people complain that it's unfair they can't get the product.

I don't listen to people anymore.

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HelpingYouBeAnExpert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

There's a big difference between "complete" and "as advertised." Most people make up what "complete" means in their heads, sometimes in direct opposition to what "as advertised" says in black and white.

The thing that blows my mind is that people say (or try) to "buy solutions, not systems," then complain that the solution you're selling isn't a system. Or, conversely, that the system you're selling isn't a solution.

I mean, I'll sell a product about "how to make a product," and people complain I didn't tell them what kind of product to make. I taught them how to make videos and take screenshots and record audio and save PDFs, but at no point in any of that did I tell them where to get an idea.

So I make another product about "how to get ideas for products," and people complain that I don't tell them how to make the product. Then I say "that's a different product, over there," and they say "well, that is some bull**** right there, because what good is an idea for a product if you don't know how to make the product?"

So I cross-promote, and have each one offered as an OTO on the other, complete with a discount. Then people complain that they didn't know there was going to be a bigger price tag on the back end, and I'm pulling a fast one on them.

So I wrap them up in one package, and people complain that they don't need the whole thing, they only need one part of it, and I'm just gouging them to charge for stuff they never wanted.

So I pull them off the market entirely and say "there you go, nothing to complain about now" and people complain that it's unfair they can't get the product.

I don't listen to people anymore.

Nice post.

When you ignore what people say and focus on what actions they take it paints a sad picture of humanity. But we are what we are and have to make the best of it.

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Most of the WSO of the MMO niche are Scam Execttly like most of the ClickBank Products

Really? What do you base this assertion on?

I'm one of the moderators here. I see the small number of WSOs that generate complaints, so I have at least a little clue about the numbers. They are probably close to the reverse of what you've stated. And there are mechanisms in place for people to report them and have them dealt with.

Take your bashing elsewhere, sir, unless you're prepared to PM me some statistical evidence supporting your assertions.

Paul

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Adie

14 years ago

Wise advice Paul. I appreciate.
But still, I consider innocent people "victims"

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 14 years ago

I want to turn away from this but darn it if it's not as much of a guilty pleasure as Jersey Shore

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Social App Zone 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

I want to turn away from this but darn it if it's not as much of a guilty pleasure as Jersey Shore .

That explains so much.
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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Jordi,

You meant just like how you tried the first time because your ego decided to make an illogical statement before you make the assumption?

Okay. This is fun.

I think you've inverted the process. The assumption should precede the statement relying on it. Unless there's a word or two missing? (Or unless I'm missing something, which happens more often than I'd like.)

FTR, I'm taking the reactive approach as a matter of choice on this topic lately. We have too many people like idoitbigtime spouting baseless nonsense as fact. So, I'm stepping on anything that looks vaguely like it might be considering imitating it at some point in a remote potential future in an alternate universe.

Paul

Edit: Did you mean "check the assumption?"

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Jordi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Jordi,Okay. This is fun.

I think you've inverted the process. The assumption should precede the statement relying on it. Unless there's a word or two missing? (Or unless I'm missing something, which happens more often than I'd like.)

FTR, I'm taking the reactive approach as a matter of choice on this topic lately. We have too many people like idoitbigtime spouting baseless nonsense as fact. So, I'm stepping on anything that looks vaguely like it might be considering imitating it at some point in a remote potential future in an alternate universe.

Paul

Edit: Did you mean "check the assumption?"

Wow after reading that I felt like I was in a school filled with virgins. No offense though..

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Joseph Robinson Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jordi

Wow after reading that I felt like I was in a school filled with virgins. No offense though..

I know it ruins things, but you're going to have to explain that joke. It didn't land for us in the peanut gallery.
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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Jordi,

Wow after reading that I felt like I was in a school filled with virgins. No offense though..

I'm a lot harder than that to offend. Especially when I don't get the joke...

Paul
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Paul Myers

14 years ago

It's alright, I understand why you don't get it... It's best if you don't

I'm okay with condescension, but I prefer it a bit fresher and more creative that that. I'm sure you understand...

Paul

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KickinConcepts

14 years ago

Take everything with a grain of salt, what worked for them might not work for you. each person is different.

But I do agree, stay away from the too good to be true promises.

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Troy,

Paul, if you pay for a system and find out it isn't complete or as advertised then the buyer has been lied to. That's what I thought Adie was referring to.

Possibly. That's not what I got from it, but I can see where it could have been the intended message.

Hmmm then again... if I paid Little Johnny $150 to see his technique for earning his big impressive income and in return Little Johnny handed over a list of products I must buy - have I been lied to?

Depends on what the copy promised. I've seen salesletters that mentioned the need for additional products, some that didn't, and some that specifically said you could "get started for just $xyz," with $xyz being the price of the product.

The first is fine. The second is iffy, at best. The third clearly implies a specific and limited investment of $xyz. I consider that deceptive, yes.

Paul

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Adie

14 years ago

Well, IM is like a puzzle for most. There are so many dots needed to be connected in order to form a very good system that works. Selling information is not a bad idea and this is exactly why IM is alive. The only problem with selling information is that, the information being sold leads to another information that people needs to buy, and another information, and so on and so forth. There are too many ladders of informative products that a newbie should buy without any guarantee at the end.

The very common example are the "work from home" websites. The salespage says "home typists needed". A newbie stumbled to that site and eventually think that he can actually earn by "typing from home" once he purchase a membership. After purchasing, he then given some lists of companies that offers this kind of service. The customer then wonder which of these companies are real so he then visit one of the websites listed. That website offer the same as the first "work form home" website he initially registered with. Without second thought, and because he is really eager to earn by typing, he then again buy another package.... and then that website offers similar lists as the original site... The customer has no choice but to give-up after losing some amount (unless he request refund and/or if there is a refund policy)....

IM is alive because partly because of these misleading information --- the people should strongly avoid.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adie

The only problem with selling information is that, the information being sold leads to another information that people needs to buy, and another information, and so on and so forth.

The information you sell should have a purpose. It should be sufficient to accomplish that purpose. The buyer should know what that purpose is before he spends any money.

It is simply good marketing to follow this up with another purpose, for which you should spend more money to get more information.

But more information should accomplish a greater purpose. The "work at home" websites you describe are a scam designed to take money from stupid people until they get smart enough to stop spending money on them. That doesn't make every upsell and cross-sell a scam.

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Adie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

The information you sell should have a purpose. It should be sufficient to accomplish that purpose. The buyer should know what that purpose is before he spends any money.

It is simply good marketing to follow this up with another purpose, for which you should spend more money to get more information.

But more information should accomplish a greater purpose. The "work at home" websites you describe are a scam designed to take money from stupid people until they get smart enough to stop spending money on them. That doesn't make every upsell and cross-sell a scam.

I agree with your comment about the information with purpose. The problem is, most information don't have purpose after you paid.. lol

Although we, experienced IMers knows that these are scam websites, they are still part of Internet Marketing that newbies are fallen into....

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