75 replies
I want to know your opinion about this.

Every now and then when I buy a WSO course, there are something like 20 modules, 40 videos -- a massive course.

Some courses are SOOO huge that it takes days to consume! It sucks!
And gems are only found here and there!

Most of these big courses SHOULD have something like a _Compressed_ pdf... Where you could have the same info in around 30 pages, instead of 40 videos!

I guess it's easier to record a video, than write a short report.

Some of the best WSOs I have bought, are under 20 pages with PURE GOLD...

What do you think? DO you hate those HUUGE courses as well?

Most customers DON'T CARE about 100 videos, 50 modules, etc... ALL they want is pure gold in a few pages.

Just my 2 cents!
#big #courses #rant #wso
  • Profile picture of the author elitesalesgroup
    I agree.
    If I ever have massive success to share in a WSO. Im gonna figure out a way to summarize it in 10-20 simple steps on a pdf and a few screenshots
    I just bought one like that and I was able to take action immediately and see returns..small but steady..sometime less really is more.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Hey, that is a very welcomed idea, to have a simple summary file...

      I personally love those "quick start" guides, because u dont have to spend all your valuable time going through the 547 videos!

      Nice

      Originally Posted by elitesalesgroup View Post

      I agree.
      If I ever have massive success to share in a WSO. Im gonna figure out a way to summarize it in 10-20 simple steps on a pdf and a few screenshots
      I just bought one like that and I was able to take action immediately and see returns..small but steady..sometime less really is more.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Pearson
      Originally Posted by elitesalesgroup View Post

      I agree.
      If I ever have massive success to share in a WSO. Im gonna figure out a way to summarize it in 10-20 simple steps on a pdf and a few screenshots
      I just bought one like that and I was able to take action immediately and see returns..small but steady..sometime less really is more.
      You already have a customer!
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        I've read through the thread and my initial thoughts upon reading the original post are still the same...

        Don't buy them if you don't like them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Nick Pearson
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          I've read through the thread and my initial thoughts upon reading the original post are still the same...

          Don't buy them if you don't like them.
          I think this one likes to sell large courses, get her. Just Kidding...
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        • Profile picture of the author Offline Doctor
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          I've read through the thread and my initial thoughts upon reading the original post are still the same...

          Don't buy them if you don't like them.
          That's an illogical statement. Sometimes the author of the WSO doesn't post what is included in the WSO. Similar to a box of chocolates.
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          • Profile picture of the author ShayB
            Originally Posted by Offline Doctor View Post

            That's an illogical statement. Sometimes the author of the WSO doesn't post what is included in the WSO. Similar to a box of chocolates.
            Why on earth would you buy something blindly? :confused::confused::confused:

            If someone doesn't say what's included in a WSO, isn't that kind of important?

            (Maybe I'm missing something here...)
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              The biggest problem here is that most people suck at writing, and they know it. The issue of "perceived value" (ie - Thud factor) is their excuse for not putting in the effort of making the product user-friendly.

              Some things are better taught using video. Most don't require it, and some actually suffer from it. I remember seeing a video series once on article writing, and thought: "HUH?!" I had to check it out.

              Narrated powerpoint slides. A few pages of text expanded into a couple hundred megabytes of video. Biggest waste of time I can imagine.

              I've bought quite a few products that were primarily video and didn't say so in the copy. Most of them end up sitting on the drive, waiting for me to make the time. Doesn't happen often. If I know it's video and buy it, you can bet I'm going to watch it, because I already decided the topic needed that treatment and I wanted the info.

              Pick the right format, and tell people what it is.

              Not tough. Still, some sellers hide as much as they can, in the hope that they'll "catch" people who might not want what they're really offering.


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  • Profile picture of the author PeacefulCalamity
    You should make a WSO about making WSOs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Haris Tahic
    Maybe you didn't understand it - It's for newbies.

    I used to sell Content Locking LOLmonies as one page report and guess what.. I had 2 kinds of totally different feedbacks.

    1st kind - That's the great product, straight to the point, instant knowledge in 2 minutes etc. That's the feedback mainly from intermediate Internet Marketers.

    2nd kind - I WANT REFUND! This is only ONE page! -- OR -- Could you please explain me this and that.. That used to be feedback from newbies.

    What I did:
    I just released 2nd Edition including 2 files as main product:
    - Quickstart Blueprint
    - Main Guide

    And refund rates went down to 0,5 %.

    Best regards,
    Haris
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Hey!

      I love the idea of a one page report, if it truly delivers gold!

      I understand and know the reason why most people make those massive courses.

      It's just too funny to think that most customers who buy those massive courses, never actually finish them. And YET these same people b***h and moan about a short report...

      I feel you!

      How long was your main course then?

      Originally Posted by Haris Tahic View Post

      Maybe you didn't understand it - It's for newbies.

      I used to sell Content Locking LOLmonies as one page report and guess what.. I had 2 kinds of totally different feedbacks.

      1st kind - That's the great product, straight to the point, instant knowledge in 2 minutes etc. That's the feedback mainly from intermediate Internet Marketers.

      2nd kind - I WANT REFUND! This is only ONE page! -- OR -- Could you please explain me this and that.. That used to be feedback from newbies.

      What I did:
      I just released 2nd Edition including 2 files as main product:
      - Quickstart Blueprint
      - Main Guide

      And refund rates went down to 0,5 %.

      Best regards,
      Haris
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      • Profile picture of the author Haris Tahic
        Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

        Hey!

        I love the idea of a one page report, if it truly delivers gold!

        I understand and know the reason why most people make those massive courses.

        It's just too funny to think that most customers who buy those massive courses, never actually finish them. And YET these same people b***h and moan about a short report...

        I feel you!

        How long was your main course then?

        Over 20 pages. You know, thats 20x short one. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    Sometimes the "fluff" to us is golden to others. While I agree a huge WSO/course is not for me, for others it is valuable because they need to know more.

    It's difficult writing a WSO or a course. Although you can determine your target market, it is still difficult to reduce the market down to a certain mentality/understanding.

    I like the courses that are specific and say, "If you know how to ...., skip to page 25." Just makes it faster to get through it.
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    • Profile picture of the author lbradshaw
      Yes, bigger is NOT always better. I think 40+ videos are OK as long as they are short, and they are intended to walk you through something step by step, like setting up a website or something along those lines.

      And no, videos are not easier, at least not for me. You still have to edit, pray for no interruptions, upload/embed, etc. I'd take writing a pdf any day over making a video.

      Liz
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Hey Lori,

      I totally agree with the "go to page XX to find out YY"...

      Every WSO should have that!

      Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

      Sometimes the "fluff" to us is golden to others. While I agree a huge WSO/course is not for me, for others it is valuable because they need to know more.

      It's difficult writing a WSO or a course. Although you can determine your target market, it is still difficult to reduce the market down to a certain mentality/understanding.

      I like the courses that are specific and say, "If you know how to ...., skip to page 25." Just makes it faster to get through it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShayB
    Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

    I want to know your opinion about this.

    Every now and then when I buy a WSO course, there are something like 20 modules, 40 videos -- a massive course.

    Some courses are SOOO huge that it takes days to consume! It sucks!
    And gems are only found here and there!

    Most of these big courses SHOULD have something like a _Compressed_ pdf... Where you could have the same info in around 30 pages, instead of 40 videos!

    I guess it's easier to record a video, than write a short report.

    Some of the best WSOs I have bought, are under 20 pages with PURE GOLD...

    What do you think? DO you hate those HUUGE courses as well?

    Most customers DON'T CARE about 100 videos, 50 modules, etc... ALL they want is pure gold in a few pages.

    Just my 2 cents!
    It depends.

    I specialize in Hotsheets - one problem, one solution, 20 pages or less.

    But if it's a comprehensive course that someone seeks, then a huge package is good.

    College courses take months to consume. A college degree takes years to complete. Many franchises have training sessions that last anywhere from days to months to complete so that you learn the business system.

    If you're learning a complete, legitimate, long-term business system, I don't think needing to put a few days into learning it is too much to ask.

    JMHO and YMMV
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Hey!

      I love hotsheets, fluff taken down minimum!

      And I do agree on the complex knowledge part. Complex stuff needs complex explanations.

      But if you need to know how to interact with your FB community, you don't need a 327 Minute long video to explain it. It can be explained in 5 pages, in most cases...



      Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

      It depends.

      I specialize in Hotsheets - one problem, one solution, 20 pages or less.

      But if it's a comprehensive course that someone seeks, then a huge package is good.

      College courses take months to consume. A college degree takes years to complete. Many franchises have training sessions that last anywhere from days to months to complete so that you learn the business system.

      If you're learning a complete, legitimate, long-term business system, I don't think needing to put a few days into learning it is too much to ask.

      JMHO and YMMV
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  • Profile picture of the author lilphilupt
    I feel what your saying but some people would like you to get your "bang for your buck" and some people really like how some WSO's over deliver. Everyone has there own preference and opinions though you know what i mean.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by lilphilupt View Post

      I feel what your saying but some people would like you to get your "bang for your buck" and some people really like how some WSO's over deliver. Everyone has there own preference and opinions though you know what i mean.
      Sometimes the little ones make a pretty big bang. Kinda like an M-80.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
        TOtally agree on that one! Many WSOTD products with less than 10 pages! SWEET! Those are the best. And it makes you feel REALLY good because you get SOO much out of those small pages, it's almost insane!



        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Sometimes the little ones make a pretty big bang. Kinda like an M-80.
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      • Profile picture of the author lilphilupt
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Sometimes the little ones make a pretty big bang. Kinda like an M-80.
        LOL i hear you on that one and i agree but you always will have that crowd that will not be satisfied, but i myself if i was a buyer i would love a straight to the point no b.s product small or big ,the more in detail the better...
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  • Profile picture of the author Butazi
    Most people want pure gold.

    Most people want things now.

    The problem is for some people they can read and understand everything about a certain subject and say out loud, "I know everything about PPC". But they haven't opened up a single adwords account or even know where to begin.

    But you are correct, if you are very familiar with a subject, there really is no need to purchase an insane course to figure out certain gems and 20 pages of pure gold is all you need.

    I'm gonna go on a hunch and say at least 80% of people here are not on that level. That is where they need or at least are interested in those 100 videos and modules, they will understand how to start campaigns, or can follow step by step to take action. Well they get results? Probably, if they stick to it.

    Their are 2 issues here, you have people "want" the answer, but aren't willing to put the man hours into "getting" the answer, and without the foundation of applying what they learn, most of the great protip material is meaningless. Then you have the people (unfortunately) cannot connect the pieces together, where they follow things step by step and might have success, but they cannot critically think or pick up patterns in what the Author is trying to say so whenever a real issue happens, they don't know how to react and either give up, or will buy more WSO's for answers.

    IMO, if you don't know much about a subject but are really interested, either browse the forums (which for some reason people hate doing) or save some time and buy a super in-depth WSO and absorb everything and then create your own ideas to improve upon the basic knowledge and grow.

    If you are pretty familiar with a few subjects and there is a 100 page course on "cool trick for facebook conversions", then it's more buyer beware since you may or may not find what you are looking for. But at the same time, it's that one idea, one gem that you haven't thought of that can turn one campaign from decent, to life-changing almost overnight that happens to be on page 71 of 100 in a big WSO course. After a certain point, it's just paying for ideas.

    That's the way I view it.

    PS/Edit: I just realized I wrote almost 400 words in 20 minutes. That's about the average article length, heh. I'm not even that good of a writer, I just amazed myself. +1 in self confidence in making useful blogs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      You've got a few good points there. I know wha you're talking about, personally.

      IF there is something new and I really want to get all the knowledge in a few hours time, I could buy that big course.

      BUT since I have a few topics I buy, I really try to stick to the short ones..

      If there is massive videos, I luckily own this small little software that makes all flash based videos run upto 2.5, or even 5 speed (but thats waayyyy to quick).. 2 is good!


      Originally Posted by Butazi View Post

      Most people want pure gold.

      Most people want things now.

      The problem is for some people they can read and understand everything about a certain subject and say out loud, "I know everything about PPC". But they haven't opened up a single adwords account or even know where to begin.

      But you are correct, if you are very familiar with a subject, there really is no need to purchase an insane course to figure out certain gems and 20 pages of pure gold is all you need.

      I'm gonna go on a hunch and say at least 80% of people here are not on that level. That is where they need or at least are interested in those 100 videos and modules, they will understand how to start campaigns, or can follow step by step to take action. Well they get results? Probably, if they stick to it.

      Their are 2 issues here, you have people "want" the answer, but aren't willing to put the man hours into "getting" the answer, and without the foundation of applying what they learn, most of the great protip material is meaningless. Then you have the people (unfortunately) cannot connect the pieces together, where they follow things step by step and might have success, but they cannot critically think or pick up patterns in what the Author is trying to say so whenever a real issue happens, they don't know how to react and either give up, or will buy more WSO's for answers.

      IMO, if you don't know much about a subject but are really interested, either browse the forums (which for some reason people hate doing) or save some time and buy a super in-depth WSO and absorb everything and then create your own ideas to improve upon the basic knowledge and grow.

      If you are pretty familiar with a few subjects and there is a 100 page course on "cool trick for facebook conversions", then it's more buyer beware since you may or may not find what you are looking for. But at the same time, it's that one idea, one gem that you haven't thought of that can turn one campaign from decent, to life-changing almost overnight that happens to be on page 71 of 100 in a big WSO course. After a certain point, it's just paying for ideas.

      That's the way I view it.

      PS/Edit: I just realized I wrote almost 400 words in 20 minutes. That's about the average article length, heh. I'm not even that good of a writer, I just amazed myself. +1 in self confidence in making useful blogs.
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      • Profile picture of the author uk099
        i agree as a newbie i am being overwhelmed with information. I would rather read the summary and find the parts i am looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    It's not how big it is, but how you use it.




    Sorry, couldn't resist.....

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      LOL, that's just too funny!

      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      It's not how big it is, but how you use it. Sorry, couldn't resist.....

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author TimGreen1
    As others have said, separate it into a short report and the long videos/PDF, that way you can please everyone and decrease your refund rate.

    QUALITY NOT QUANTITY
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  • Profile picture of the author marketerpro
    I think the OP is right. WSO courses are getting too big, and not because they need to be. I think it's more about making it look like you are getting alot. Giving it lots of 'bulk', but it' usually not necessary. The best are often just a tightly written PDF and maybe one short video.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      YOU Should be awarded for your comment!

      I totally agree on this one!

      "making it look like you are getting alot" -- You nailed it!

      I hate the fact that courses need to look big.



      Originally Posted by marketerpro View Post

      I think the OP is right. WSO courses are getting too big, and not because they need to be. I think it's more about making it look like you are getting alot. Giving it lots of 'bulk', but it' usually not necessary. The best are often just a tightly written PDF and maybe one short video.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Ok, I do understand this point of charging more money... But many of the MONSTER courses are under $9 with a OTO or two...

      Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

      It's part of their marketing plan.

      Perceived value, so they can charge more money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        To me, it all depends upon the type of material given and the purpose of the author.

        It is his/her responsibility to know (research) what the target audience wants and how best to present the material so that the purpose is realized.

        If a few words suffice, then fine. If a lot of detail is appropriate (sometimes "the devil is in the details"), then maybe a summary shortchanges the reader/buyer.

        As buyers we all have our druthers, but the creator of the material is the one who must determine his/her approach.

        Maybe the answer is to find a product creator who caters to your style and stick with that person.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Drew Cleveland
    I actually like videos...It's just when people read directly off of their PowerPoint slides, that is annoying! Why not just give is a copy of the Slides instead of making us sit through the 10 hour video series?
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    • Profile picture of the author Drew Cleveland
      Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

      I'm offering a 397 DVD set of time saving tips.

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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      SOLD !!! LOL!

      Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

      I'm offering a 397 DVD set of time saving tips.

      Over 6842 hour of solid content!

      * order now and get the 11,000 page companion manual - ABSOLUTELY FREE!




      BTW ... thread = TL;DR
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    A lot of WSO sellers are selling to newbies.. so it makes sense to include basic info that covers very simple steps.

    For example, a WSO about list building could be summarized in a few words:

    Drive paid traffic to a squeeze page, collect leads in exchange for a freebie and include affiliate links in the freebie.

    To most of us, that's straight forward stuff.

    But to a newbie, they have so many questions that need to be covered (otherwise they won't get the same kind of value as you or I).. for example, from a newbies point of view.. how does PPC work? How do you make a squeeze page? Which autoresponder? How to make a freebie? How to know which affiliate products will convert?

    You get the drift.
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    • Profile picture of the author Offline Doctor
      I hate when a WSO has 40, five minute videos, a mindmap, pdfs, mp3s, and a ton of other Bonuses to confuse me.

      Just give me a simple PDF I can read (and save hard drive space) that has one really good idea. Stick the bonuses where the sun don't shine.
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  • Profile picture of the author LuvAbundance
    Thank you for reminding me of this..That sometimes more information is TOO MUCH information, causing information overload (and unhappy customers). I am in the process of creating a membership site and have to keep reminding myself to keep the info in manageable chunks...and not to try to teach EVERYTHING under the sun to them. Every niche has so much that can be taught, and if you are a perfectionist, it's hard to know when to stop.

    Clarity and focus are more important than an abundance of info. And actually it might even be harder to trim and narrow down to the essentials than to just put all the info you know out there willy nilly...As a content creator this is my struggle!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    You know why it is.

    Some people do it because they think it will mean everyone gets enough detail to be happy.

    Some people do it because they prefer to make videos that write reports.

    Some people do it because they think it has higher perceived value.

    Some people do it because they just want you to think they're offering a lot of value and they only actually have a few things to say which they know you've read before.
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    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      You know why it is.

      Some people do it because they think it will mean everyone gets enough detail to be happy.

      Some people do it because they prefer to make videos than write reports.

      Some people do it because they think it has higher perceived value.

      Some people do it because they just want you to think they're offering a lot of value and they only actually have a few things to say which they know you've read before.

      Some people do it because their intended customers prefer it.

      Some people do it because it's the most effective mode of communicating the material.

      Some people do it because educational precedence shows involving more senses helps retention of knowledge.
      Added a couple for you Andy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
    If I'm understanding right, WSO sellers should take the time to present the material in a way that will please every individuals varying learning preferences (greatly increasing productions costs), without regard to what method is best suited for conveying the material. Is this correct?

    And they should do this for the ridiculously low prices that most WSOs are offered at, for the convenience of those that are unwilling to deal with anything but spoon fed gold nuggets? Am I off?

    Seriously folks... overgeneralizing is a waste of time. Not every WSO fits every person, that's why most vendors offer some kind of refund policy. If you know it's a video course and you dislike videos, just pass it by...

    There are some topics that simply can NOT be taught effectively via PDF, or if it could, you would be just as mad at all the screen shots you have to wade through.

    Bottom line, most good product creators are not trying to please every person, nor is it possible that they could. They have to balance the needs of the material with the needs of their INTENDED audience (which may or may not be you), with time and dollar constraints for producing the material.

    Even with the best thought out and most appropriate delivery, creators will always have a handful of people whining about stuff like "this is too long", or "this is too short", or "I whaaaaaanted a PDF!" Sorry, you get what they make, and I don't have a clue why you would demand more from them.

    Do you demand that you get a PDF with "just the nuggets" every time you buy a new movie too?

    Do you expect a set of videos when you buy a repair manual for your lawn mower?

    Didn't think so.
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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      'Back in the day', there were companies that paid their programmers according to how many lines of code they produced! This didn't promote better coding, it just made bloated programs that took up way too much memory for what they accomplished - Kinda like some WSOs... :rolleyes:

      Not that bigger is always worse - if the material warrants 100 videos to get the point across to the target audience, by all means! I just don't want to buy 1 minute of good info buried under 100 hours of fluff.
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  • Profile picture of the author 1Dina
    i hate these wsos now that are all video!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by 1Dina View Post

      i hate these wsos now that are all video!
      Then tell me how would you like to learn something like List Building without video? The reason I use video is so it's absolutely 100% clear. If I used PDF's they would be 100's of pages long and there would be a ton of questions from everyone to make sure they have done things right.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    I have a Massive WSO course about list building and over the years I've received both kinds of feedback. In my shorter courses I get people who say I'm missing stuff and in the longer courses I get people saying it's quality info but too long.

    It comes down to the target market. Trouble is the people that are buying don't know what they need. This was proven when a guy bought one of my WSO's because the copy was awesome and even though it was for newbies as it clearly states, he was not a newbie which he self admitted.

    I guess it comes down to the individual who makes the purchase. You should know what you are buying before you hit the "Buy Now" button.

    So it isn't a matter of is it too long or too short.. it's a matter of "Is it targeted towards YOU?"

    In a perfect world everything would be just right for each of us... You cannot expect the product creator to read your mind.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post


      I guess it comes down to the individual who makes the purchase. You should know what you are buying before you hit the "Buy Now" button.
      I agree with this assessment, but its often not just that simple. Lets face it, not every wso or product is clearly labeled..."for newbies" or "for experts only".

      Then you get into the idea of what a newbie is. I would consider myself a novice at doing press releases. I am certain there are some here who know a lot more on that topic than i do.

      However, I did have decent success using press releases more than a half a dozen times last year. The whole idea of what constitutes a newbie or expert is very subjective....from everyone's perspective.

      From my perspective, I think the WSO marketplace lends itself more to low cost and shorter reports or videos than huge courses.

      The generally low price point of products there would simply make it very tough to produce truly high quality material for a "huge" course.

      and to Mike Hill, I have not purchased your list building course, so my comments are not about your product. Rather its simple based on the fact that the profit margins in the WSO market place would usually make it tough for most to produce lots of high quality material.
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    I have both extremes, and it's because the best way to present the information depends on what you are teaching.

    As my smallest WSO I have a 10 page PDF, and my largest is a 200,000 word course that is delivered over 30 weeks, not counting the bonus material lol.

    If you are only sharing a tip on one specific thing, I agree a little report is best. However, if you a lot to share then I see no harm in doing so.

    Nobody goes to study law at uni' and says, "Could you condense this down into a tip sheet? I'm a bit busy."
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    The REAL problem is not whether it's video or PDF. The real culprit is people want something where they don't have to do any work or figure anything out for themselves or make any kind of decision on their own whatsoever. Why do you think hyped up ClickBank products still sell into the millions. It's because a lot of people are still looking for the "pipe dream" instead of working hard at something that actually works.
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  • Profile picture of the author mlord10
    I really think it depends on the buyer...and every buyer is different.

    For me...I know my business model, and I don't really buy WSO's that are going to teach me some new, magical business model...therefore, I tend to stay away from long courses that contain 40 videos & such.

    I'm sure some of these courses are fantastic...and I am not knocking them at all. What I'm saying is that my personal preference is to buy something that can shed some light on how I could make some facet of my current business better.

    Generally speaking, I've found the short reports tend to accomplish this better than the longer, massive courses.

    It really depends on how much direction a person needs, and where they are in their internet marketing career (plus their personal preferences & learning style of course).
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  • Profile picture of the author Adevictus
    Long WSOs are awful, why am I going to waste all that time reading/watching it when I can just go and make money or make my own WSO?

    I guess they are only enticing to people who aren't currently making money online.
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    • Profile picture of the author retirewithsandie
      Originally Posted by Michael D Forbes View Post

      If I'm understanding right, WSO sellers should take the time to present the material in a way that will please every individuals varying learning preferences (greatly increasing productions costs), without regard to what method is best suited for conveying the material. Is this correct?
      Yes sir!

      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      I have a Massive WSO course about list building and over the years I've received both kinds of feedback. In my shorter courses I get people who say I'm missing stuff and in the longer courses I get people saying it's quality info but too long.
      Yes it's definitely hard to find that "happy medium" with WSOs regardless of the media.

      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      The REAL problem is not whether it's video or PDF. The real culprit is people want something where they don't have to do any work or figure anything out for themselves or make any kind of decision on their own whatsoever. Why do you think hyped up ClickBank products still sell into the millions. It's because a lot of people are still looking for the "pipe dream" instead of working hard at something that actually works.
      Truth right there! So many products/people out there with the "blink your eyes and you'll have a million in your bank account 30 seconds later."

      Originally Posted by Adevictus View Post

      Long WSOs are awful, why am I going to waste all that time reading/watching it when I can just go and make money or make my own WSO?

      I guess they are only enticing to people who aren't currently making money online.
      Not necessarily. I know I've seen a few WSOs from people who are making money (can only go by what they say since I don't know them from Adam) have chimed in how they've learned something new or something that can help them in their current business. Some have even started new businesses by dipping into the offline business for example.

      Yes most are focused for us n00bs, but there have also been plenty that are targeted intermediate/advanced Warrior.
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      • Profile picture of the author Adevictus
        Originally Posted by retirewithsandie View Post

        Not necessarily. I know I've seen a few WSOs from people who are making money (can only go by what they say since I don't know them from Adam) have chimed in how they've learned something new or something that can help them in their current business. Some have even started new businesses by dipping into the offline business for example.

        Yes most are focused for us n00bs, but there have also been plenty that are targeted intermediate/advanced Warrior.
        That could be true but in the Warriors for Hire section there is constantly people looking for established Warriors to review their up and coming WSO for free so that they have a some credibility come launch time which may greatly skew that perception
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    @OP

    Looks like you've found an unsolved need in the market. Now you can make millions.

    I used to be one who wanted the big course, now I am with you in only wanting the short report. I guess it has something to do with how new you are to the game.

    -Simon
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      MILLIONS, here we cooooomee!

      Congrats on your choice of wanting a short report!

      Originally Posted by Simon Ashari View Post

      @OP

      Looks like you've found an unsolved need in the market. Now you can make millions.

      I used to be one who wanted the big course, now I am with you in only wanting the short report. I guess it has something to do with how new you are to the game.

      -Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author JCTorpey
    Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

    I want to know your opinion about this.

    Every now and then when I buy a WSO course, there are something like 20 modules, 40 videos -- a massive course.

    Some courses are SOOO huge that it takes days to consume! It sucks!
    And gems are only found here and there!

    Most of these big courses SHOULD have something like a _Compressed_ pdf... Where you could have the same info in around 30 pages, instead of 40 videos!

    I guess it's easier to record a video, than write a short report.

    Some of the best WSOs I have bought, are under 20 pages with PURE GOLD...

    What do you think? DO you hate those HUUGE courses as well?

    Most customers DON'T CARE about 100 videos, 50 modules, etc... ALL they want is pure gold in a few pages.

    Just my 2 cents!
    I agree 100 %.

    I generally won't touch anything that comes with a video, especially if watching the video is required to utilize the system. It's a shame because I've passed on lots of great looking WSOs because I couldn't implement the systems without the video, but the videos didn't come with a transcript.

    I simply don't have to time to watch them. Besides, if I wanted to watch something, I'd stop working 18 hour days and go watch Criminal Minds or something.

    My suggestions to remedy this:

    • Videos should come with transcripts by default (especially the short videos!)
    • We shouldn't be charged extra $10 or $20 for text unless the original video is more than 30 minutes long
    • On the other hand maybe sellers could offer a straight text option instead of their videos
    Just a thought.
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  • Good point. To me it is the quality that counts. I have gone through huge course but the content was awesome so its great. Really though I don't have time for any course, regardless of size.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Star
    I prefer video with duration of 10 minutes or if the 20-page pdf may suffice. but sometimes there is a more complete training course to be made ​​more compact.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    On my latest project, I've combined both embedded video and text into the document. I give an outline of the techniques in text and there's a short video showing the techniques right above the text.

    I think part of the problem is that people use PDF instead of HTML. With HTML you can embed videos directly into the text.

    And you can use Youtube's "private" feature so that only those that have the HTML file (or those that steal the URL from the source code) can see the videos. The great thing about using Youtube for this is that users don't have to download the videos and they can "stream" the ones they want to watch.
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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      On my latest project, I've combined both embedded video and text into the document. I give an outline of the techniques in text and there's a short video showing the techniques right above the text.

      I think part of the problem is that people use PDF instead of HTML. With HTML you can embed videos directly into the text.

      And you can use Youtube's "private" feature so that only those that have the HTML file (or those that steal the URL from the source code) can see the videos. The great thing about using Youtube for this is that users don't have to download the videos and they can "stream" the ones they want to watch.
      I love that idea - always annoyed by the lack of media support in acrobat. However, what happens if you embed Youtube links in your document and your Youtube account get suspended/canceled? Seen it happen in blogs before, has it ever been a problem for you?

      Everyone is willing to watch 3-hour movies that do absolutely nothing to improve your quality of life and some of these same people are actually voicing their frustration with a WSO that is too long.
      I see the point, but if Steven Spielberg did a 3-hour WSO video, that might well be engaging enough to keep the average person interested. 'Joe Marketer's video? Maybe, maybe not...
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by cjreynolds View Post

        I love that idea - always annoyed by the lack of media support in acrobat. However, what happens if you embed Youtube links in your document and your Youtube account get suspended/canceled? Seen it happen in blogs before, has it ever been a problem for you?
        .
        This is a good question and one I honestly haven't thought about.

        I can only say that videos that are "private" are less likely to get an account closed than public videos.

        A work around could be to use iframes in the report pointing to pages on your own site with the videos embedded. If the videos were ever banned, you could replace them on your own pages.

        However, I think the risk is pretty low if your videos are decent and don't infringe on copyrights.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Sadly a lot of product creators AND customers determine the worth of a product by it's size. A big video course is going to be worth more than a single PDF document... or so they think.

    A few years ago there were some well known Internet Marketers who went around telling everyone to turn their simple text PDF courses into videos because you could then charge more money for that same information.

    The trend continues to this day.

    Videos are needed for certain types of teaching. A lot of times though I have received much more value from short PDF courses than long drawn out video/audio courses.
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  • Profile picture of the author techbul
    I agree that you should include a short summary or blueprint along with your full report. Just my 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author Challendge
    I don't think that it should ever be shortened. Why? Because the Warrior Forum consists mostly of beginner or intermediate-level members that need as much information as they can get.
    What you need is a "If you know how to _____, then skip to video #x".

    Another example of people trying to get rich quick. This is a fairytale and you better believe that these "too long for me" WSOs will always mention one thing that makes it worth watching the few hours of videos.

    Everyone is willing to watch 3-hour movies that do absolutely nothing to improve your quality of life and some of these same people are actually voicing their frustration with a WSO that is too long.

    I'll never understand....
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by eMarketing Mistakes View Post

      I think this one likes to sell large courses, get her. Just Kidding...
      Actually, I don't care for long courses, either... lol. Especially with a ton of video.

      Originally Posted by Offline Doctor View Post

      That's an illogical statement. Sometimes the author of the WSO doesn't post what is included in the WSO. Similar to a box of chocolates.
      We are allowed to ask questions in the thread. You know that, right? Ask the format before you buy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Challendge View Post

      Everyone is willing to watch 3-hour movies that do absolutely nothing to improve your quality of life and some of these same people are actually voicing their frustration with a WSO that is too long.
      Movies are entertainment. Most long video courses are beyond boring and completely unnecessary. If it's trying to explain something that doesn't need to be seen, then it's a waste for most of us. 9 times out of 10, the ones I've seen are done either to add perceived value or because the creator is too lazy to have it typed up.
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  • Profile picture of the author DannyFikes
    From my limited experience, there's 2 reasons for a huge course.

    First, the thud factor. That thing shakes the whole house when you drop it on the table.

    Second, it takes so long to go through that most people won't have the time and energy to complete it. Most people don't get results from the info products they buy. Sad but true. We all know that. Maybe they didn't follow the instructions, maybe they didn't take action, maybe they didn't even open the product. Psychologically, if you don't finish the massive course, I believe that moves the responsibility for 'failing' from the seller to the buyer. They think "all the info's here, I just didn't get to the success secret yet" or "I just haven't put it all together in a way that'll make me successful yet". Therefore, lower refunds.

    Sure, I may have taken some creative liberties with the psychology rant, but the bigger the course, (other factors being equal) usually the lower the refunds. I've seen it.
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  • Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

    I want to know your opinion about this.

    Every now and then when I buy a WSO course, there are something like 20 modules, 40 videos -- a massive course.

    Some courses are SOOO huge that it takes days to consume! It sucks!
    And gems are only found here and there!

    Most of these big courses SHOULD have something like a _Compressed_ pdf... Where you could have the same info in around 30 pages, instead of 40 videos!

    I guess it's easier to record a video, than write a short report.

    Some of the best WSOs I have bought, are under 20 pages with PURE GOLD...

    What do you think? DO you hate those HUUGE courses as well?

    Most customers DON'T CARE about 100 videos, 50 modules, etc... ALL they want is pure gold in a few pages.

    Just my 2 cents!
    I'm totally with you on this. I appreciate all the work that went into these courses; truly I do. They are not something just thrown together to make a quick buck. But they take so long to get through, I just don't usually have the time for them. And like most folks, I have a lot of potential distractions during the day, and sitting through one video after another does not work well for me. It may be my "learning style", too...I prefer to read so I can get to the parts I DON'T know. I suspect video courses do work well for some types of people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Angela, nice to hear your opinion about this!

      I do understand that most of those Gigantic courses take really many days or even weeks to put together...

      BUT sadly as you said, distractions are everywhere (no matter how the Gurus tell us to close the door, close the cell phone, facebook, email... ETC)...

      That's why I just love those gold packed courses!

      NICE

      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      I'm totally with you on this. I appreciate all the work that went into these courses; truly I do. They are not something just thrown together to make a quick buck. But they take so long to get through, I just don't usually have the time for them. And like most folks, I have a lot of potential distractions during the day, and sitting through one video after another does not work well for me. It may be my "learning style", too...I prefer to read so I can get to the parts I DON'T know. I suspect video courses do work well for some types of people.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    you can embed videos directly into pdf documents as well. You do need adobe software to do it though. They actually come out looking slick.

    The videos have a stop / start player control much like the limited controls of many video sales pages now.

    It does make the pdf much bigger though because essentially there is a video file inside the pdf.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      you can embed videos directly into pdf documents as well. You do need adobe software to do it though. They actually come out looking slick.

      The videos have a stop / start player control much like the limited controls of many video sales pages now.

      It does make the pdf much bigger though because essentially there is a video file inside the pdf.
      And this sort of defeats the purpose of using HTML. An HTML file can be 10K to be downloaded and still have 50 Youtube videos embedded in it, streaming only the videos the person wants/needs.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        And this sort of defeats the purpose of using HTML. An HTML file can be 10K to be downloaded and still have 50 Youtube videos embedded in it, streaming only the videos the person wants/needs.
        in some cases yes. however embedding a few 20 second(ish) videos does work pretty well and not bloat the pdf too much.

        sometimes a 10 second video can save 2 pages of text.

        Its not good to do full blown software demos or rambling videos, but a few well placed videos can make an ordinary pdf report extraordinarily helpful.
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