Can you make $4k/month from article writing?

by 1Dina
83 replies
I've been thinking of writing full-time and was wondering if I could make $4k/month from writing articles?

Any advice from other Warriors would be nice
#$4k or month #article #make #writing
  • Profile picture of the author TheProgrammer
    Yes you can easily make, but its depend on your writing skills. Offer your service here in WSO, Warrior Classified Ads and Warrior for Hire sections.
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    • Profile picture of the author mikelukjaniec
      Article Marketing, if done properly, is one of the most effective and economical ways to promote a business on the Internet, so there's a huge market out there! Just tap into it!
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      Affiliate links are not allowed.

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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Cohen
    It depends on 2 things.

    #1 How good is your writing?

    #2 How much can you write?

    If the answer to #1 is INCREDIBLY AMAZING, determine how much you will charge. Your quality will depend on that.

    Then, multiply it by the number of articles you'd need to write to hit that mark. If the answer to #2 falls in that range, it's possible. Perhaps not for the first month or couple months as you'll need to build up a reputation and repertoire of clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author 1Dina
    I can write high quality articles and went to a top college. I would think $10-$15 per 500 word article would be my price point. but I'm new to this and never offered writing as a service...
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by 1Dina View Post

      I can write high quality articles and went to a top college. I would think $10-$15 per 500 word article would be my price point. but I'm new to this and never offered writing as a service...
      At this price point, you'll have to write 267 to 400 articles per month minimum (actually, more than that when you take into account PayPal fees or other payment fees). Additionally, you'll have to constantly find new clients, which will take up a lot of your time.

      Most people will quickly burn out trying to produce that much volume on a regular basis. It's much better to charge higher rates and do less volume. However, your writing will have to be worthy of the rates you charge.
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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      Originally Posted by 1Dina View Post

      I can write high quality articles and went to a top college. I would think $10-$15 per 500 word article would be my price point. but I'm new to this and never offered writing as a service...
      Sounds like you're selling yourself short - I've seen posts on this issue - think I saw one by Alexa Smith recently, but I can't seem to find it. Seems like the title was something like "Writers, Charge What You're Worth". My memory is fading with age, so not sure of the author or title...
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      I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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  • Profile picture of the author Adevictus
    Sure it is possible to achieve $4k/month from it but there are no guarantees...

    Freelance article writing is a performance based job so you get paid based on what you can churn out.

    It is also possible to make $4k/month digging ditches or doing some freelance plumbing also, just remember there are no guarantees.
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    It's all about the money...

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  • Profile picture of the author makingiants
    It can happen!
    You've gotta hustle, hustle, but it can definitely happen...

    HTH
    Vince aka makingiants
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    • Profile picture of the author Fraser SellHealth
      affiliates are always looking for quality, reliable writers. The ones that have branded themselves as high end and are consistent will WIN!!! go get it !! and i may have some leads for you
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      Affiliate Manager
      Sellhealth.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Copy
    From a more realistic perspective, earning that amount of money per month solely by article writing is really ambitious. Is it possible? Maybe. Probable? No. It takes time to build a reputation with your writing but if you make consistent effort to network and produce high quality content you will see your business expand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    If you're only offering your services on this forum...it would be tough to make $4,000 per month writing articles. Not impossible, but hard work.

    You should consider other outlets. Offline clients and local businesses will often pay better.

    Many writers set-up businesses selling PLR in addition to offering ghostwriting.

    It helps if you offer other services such as writing press releases or ebooks.

    Another option is to start your own blog or publish books on Kindle.

    It's good to have more than one income stream.

    (Ruth Pound just launched a WSO on Ghostwriting that's very good.)

    Rose
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    It's physically impossible. I've never done it. You should never ever write anything ever .
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    • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      It's physically impossible. I've never done it. You should never ever write anything ever .
      lol. you got to believe Joe.. As what Joe said, he's on his way to being the most bookmarked for later Warrior in the Warrior Forum..

      Joe, your most recent post on your thread literally made me laugh out load.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    Study Joe's Warrior for Hire ad (above) as the perfect example of what to do to set yourself apart from the crowd.
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    • Profile picture of the author All Night Cafe
      I know you can. There are warriors on the forum who make more.

      Best advise, truely value your worth as an article writer. Don't shot
      yourself in the foot if you are as good as you say you.

      If you don't value your article writing, no one else will.

      If your good go for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketingdynasty
    4,000 per month is doable depending on you strategy. Do you plan to write for content mills, get your own clients, or offer a service in forums or fiverr like websites? This all plays a factor in your income. Also, how good is your writing?
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Cohen
    What Rose said. Recommending Ruth's book and Joe's thread... 2 for 2... way to go!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruth P
    I think $4k per month is very doable, but you have to position yourself correctly. Firstly, if you've never written before you need to establish a good reputation. Get some good samples up on the web, and get some clients who will leave you a testimonial.

    Note that a lot of IMers will expect dirt cheap. They might even question you if you charge more than the regular $5 per article here. You mentioned $10-$15 above, but Cali16 is right - think about how much you'll need to write to earn $4k... you'll be writing like a machine and you'll end up hating it.

    Instead, you need to approach people in the right market. They do exist. People are willing to pay more as long as you can write, and you position yourself as a quality writer.

    You can also specialise in something like eBooks. Maybe take advantage of the Kindle craze and write Kindle books for people. Some will still want dirt cheap, but others will be up for paying what it takes to get a quality book that could potentially make them a lot of money!
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
    Yes.

    In fact, you can make a WHOLE LOT MORE than 4k a month writing articles, but there are 3 things you need to keep in mind if you're going to set this as a goal:

    1. Internet marketers are NOT the ideal clients for high end article writing services. Articles, from the perspective of most IMers, are mainly there to get keywords for SEO purposes. This is probably a flawed perspective, but most IMers stick to it nonetheless. Magazines, newspapers and highly trafficked blogs are a MUCH better target.

    2. BUT, if you are going to target magazines and newspapers, know that they're probably not going to pay for opinion type pieces. Too many people do this for free these days. You will need to either get interviews from well known people, or break news, to make consistent money.

    3. If points 1 and 2 are discouraging to you, you CAN make 4k+ writing cheap SEO articles for IMers. But, we're talking hours and hours a day of mindless, mind-numbing, repetitive work. This will take up all your time, make you dumber, and hold you back from doing anything meaningful with your life. Better to sacrifice income now to make more money in the future.

    Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author msufan
      I have teamed up with two different clients who both pay $0.20 per word, so a 500-word article nets me $100. This whole $10-$15 per article business is WAY below market value IMHO.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulDomains
      Originally Posted by Andy Button View Post

      Yes.

      In fact, you can make a WHOLE LOT MORE than 4k a month writing articles, but there are 3 things you need to keep in mind if you're going to set this as a goal:

      1. Internet marketers are NOT the ideal clients for high end article writing services. Articles, from the perspective of most IMers, are mainly there to get keywords for SEO purposes. This is probably a flawed perspective, but most IMers stick to it nonetheless. Magazines, newspapers and highly trafficked blogs are a MUCH better target.

      2. BUT, if you are going to target magazines and newspapers, know that they're probably not going to pay for opinion type pieces. Too many people do this for free these days. You will need to either get interviews from well known people, or break news, to make consistent money.

      3. If points 1 and 2 are discouraging to you, you CAN make 4k+ writing cheap SEO articles for IMers. But, we're talking hours and hours a day of mindless, mind-numbing, repetitive work. This will take up all your time, make you dumber, and hold you back from doing anything meaningful with your life. Better to sacrifice income now to make more money in the future.

      Hope this helps.
      Totally Agree with this post. From my own experience I may ad that IMers
      always look for the best price+enough quality for SEO. I have found many
      people that write a 500 words unique article for less than $5.

      I have done some freelance writing in the past and it is easy to start with
      energy and positive thinking, but you'll get overwhelmed pretty soon with
      the type of requests you may get. Weird topics where you need to invest
      a lot of time in research. There is a nice site for that. iwriter[dot]com

      Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author Allan_Gardyne
      Originally Posted by Andy Button View Post

      ...you CAN make 4k+ writing cheap SEO articles for IMers. But, we're talking hours and hours a day of mindless, mind-numbing, repetitive work.
      I'd like to expand on that thought...

      If instead of selling your time, you choose to create a business, you have the freedom to choose your own niche, the freedom to design your business to suit your skills and interests. You can choose a topic you already know and are passionate about.

      When you're writing about a topic you love and you're deeply immersed in, it ISN'T mind-numbing and soul-destroying. It may not even feel like work. It can be uplifting and even fun at times.

      You shouldn't have to write 400 articles a month - I never did anything like that - but if you have the drive, energy and enthusiasm to do so without wrecking your health and your family, fantastic!

      But let's slow down a bit.

      Imagine if you wrote just a quarter of that number, say, 100 each month for 10 months (allowing extra time for unforeseen events), at the end of a year you'd have a blog or website containing 1,000 keyword-researched, interesting, useful articles. And if you took Willie Crawford's advice, they would be problem-solving articles.

      What a valuable resource that could be - a wonderful start to building a long-term, profitable business that continues to generate revenue from affiliate commissions and AdSense, long after your articles were written. And you would still OWN them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        BINGO!!!

        Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

        I worked at freelance writing before I got into affiliate marketing. I will tell you this - I made good money but I had to write A LOT of articles to do it. I do enjoy affiliate marketing more and make more money doing this than I ever did at writing articles.
        ...and Allan Gardyne made a similar remark a few posts later in the thread.

        Originally Posted by Allan_Gardyne View Post

        I'd like to expand on that thought...

        Imagine if you wrote just a quarter of that number, say, 100 each month for 10 months (allowing extra time for unforeseen events), at the end of a year you'd have a blog or website containing 1,000 keyword-researched, interesting, useful articles. And if you took Willie Crawford's advice, they would be problem-solving articles.

        What a valuable resource that could be - a wonderful start to building a long-term, profitable business that continues to generate revenue from affiliate commissions and AdSense, long after your articles were written. And you would still OWN them.
        1 article + a call to action (with affiliate link) = 1 presales page

        Unless you can command TOP RATES for your writing, you will make much more money by posting the articles you write on your own blog, and banking the commissions from your affiliate links!

        PLUS - by removing your writing skills from the marketplace, you won't have to continually revise your rates downward to compete with the "wannabee" content writers.

        You'll never have to look for clients to write for. You'll have a built-in outlet for everything you write!
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          In case you missed any of these comments...these 3 guys are definitely worth listening to.
          (Actually, don't just listen to them...hear them.)

          Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

          When I read your question, I thought of it from the angle
          of you earning money as an article marketer, where you
          use your writing to sell affiliate products and earn commissions.

          That is how I, and a lot of others on the forum, earned most
          of our income at times.

          There, I just wrote about problems, "agitated" by pointing
          out that it really was a problem that wasn't going to solve
          itself, and then recommended my target product as the solution,
          using an affiliate link.

          I don't use that model as often any more for some reason,
          but it always worked beautifully for me.

          Willie
          Originally Posted by Allan_Gardyne View Post

          I'd like to expand on that thought...

          If instead of selling your time, you choose to create a business, you have the freedom to choose your own niche, the freedom to design your business to suit your skills and interests. You can choose a topic you already know and are passionate about.

          When you're writing about a topic you love and you're deeply immersed in, it ISN'T mind-numbing and soul-destroying. It may not even feel like work. It can be uplifting and even fun at times.

          You shouldn't have to write 400 articles a month - I never did anything like that - but if you have the drive, energy and enthusiasm to do so without wrecking your health and your family, fantastic!

          But let's slow down a bit.

          Imagine if you wrote just a quarter of that number, say, 100 each month for 10 months (allowing extra time for unforeseen events), at the end of a year you'd have a blog or website containing 1,000 keyword-researched, interesting, useful articles. And if you took Willie Crawford's advice, they would be problem-solving articles.

          What a valuable resource that could be - a wonderful start to building a long-term, profitable business that continues to generate revenue from affiliate commissions and AdSense, long after your articles were written. And you would still OWN them.
          Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

          BINGO!!!



          ...and Allan Gardyne made a similar remark a few posts later in the thread.



          1 article + a call to action (with affiliate link) = 1 presales page

          Unless you can command TOP RATES for your writing, you will make much more money by posting the articles you write on your own blog, and banking the commissions from your affiliate links!

          PLUS - by removing your writing skills from the marketplace, you won't have to continually revise your rates downward to compete with the "wannabee" content writers.

          You'll never have to look for clients to write for. You'll have a built-in outlet for everything you write!
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamie Stewart
    LOTS of people need good quality articles and LOTS of people are selling good quality articles. The demand continues to grow and the supply continues to grow. Matching the two is a VERY profitable place to be... just saying :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Yes you can.

      But....


      Bah, bah bah. It depends on a few different things.

      What will you write, how much time you will invest, how much you will charge, can you even sell 4K worth of article writing services per month, etc.

      Its like asking: Can I become an astronaut?

      It is a very vague question. Don't be surprised if the answers are vague.

      You would be better off asking something like; I'm currently working fulltime during the day and still living at home with my folks, I have 2-4 hours per night that I can realisticly look for writing work, write articles and offer customer service. In my current situation could I make 4k Per month?

      That is a question I would tackle

      Good luck.
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      • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
        If you have the skills and the clients, sure you can do that. Do you know enough about marketing to get those clients and proper seo to keep them happy?

        Article writing can get very boring, especially when the client wants work where you have no expertise and have to research before you write. It's not difficult to get burned out, so choose your clients and categories carefully. The more you need to research, the less you will earn.

        Whatever you choose to do, get in the habit of writing your own blog and monetize and create ebooks you can put on Amazon, etc. Many times private clients will change direction and what you think is a sure thing actually is not. Basically, never, ever, put all your eggs in one basket.

        And, last, but not least, get some good information on knowing your tax liabilities before they are due so the money and forms are ready by the due dates.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    When I read your question, I thought of it from the angle
    of you earning money as an article marketer, where you
    use your writing to sell affiliate products and earn commissions.

    That is how I, and a lot of others on the forum, earned most
    of our income at times.

    There, I just wrote about problems, "agitated" by pointing
    out that it really was a problem that wasn't going to solve
    itself, and then recommended my target product as the solution,
    using an affiliate link.

    I don't use that model as often any more for some reason,
    but it always worked beautifully for me.

    Willie
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    Over Six Figures Per MONTH From Ranking And Renting Website?
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  • Hi 1Dina,

    In this marketplace among similar marketplaces, it could most likely be difficult, especially because you can just offer your own time and services. In these marketplaces, many content buyers are just looking for people who can write creative pieces about general topics and are mostly ready to pay the lowest rates possible. They shouldn't be your targets, since their businesses could most likely be shaky, so most of them won't be able to send you regular projects. Otherwise, if you have an entire department of writers, trainors and Q/A staff solely focused in these marketplaces, on top of another department dedicated to the markets I'm about to discuss below, then $4K would be attainable (as separate net income just from this department). What you should do, I recommend, is to:

    • List down the industries and subject areas where you have specialized knowledge and expertise in. Choose some industries and subject areas where only a few people around the world have similar specialized knowledge and expertise as yours. Then:

    • Find companies and corporations operating in these industries and subject areas. Choose credible corporations and companies that have recently launched products, since they also have large annual marketing budgets for promoting their brand and new products, and content writing services are included in their annual marketing budgets. Then:

    • Formulate an offer where you get paid the amount your targeting, considering the time per day that you want to use for writing content, the volume of work you can do per day, the most reasonable price they can get it, and an optional offer where:

    • You earn a certain percentage of the market prices of their new products, as commissions per product sold because of the content you will write for them. Say 10% per product sold from copies of your work, published in their sites, network of sites and content syndication channels, and the price of your writing services can be reduced by up to 40% with this offer. Also include in your proposal that you developed this optional offer because you aim to give them the results they need with your work, and also because you will be promoting their new products via your published work in your own social and professional networks on top of other channels where a lot of people are interested in the benefits offered by their products, so they could get more sales for you to earn more commissions along the way. Next:

    • Contact those corporations and companies. Inform them that you'll be sending a proposal via email or fax, and briefly discuss the most important components of your proposal (particularly the most beneficial returns they can get from your proposal) if they have time, so you can establish a friendly professional relationship with them, even before they see your proposal. Then, send it to them via email or fax...

    =>> I'm sure this can work. I did this, and I'm still doing it. From 2005 to 2009, we developed tech content, loads of it, four years of content from a team of 80 employees, for a prominent North American system security software corporation, Paretologic, Inc., particularly for their recently launched product during that time, RegCure. In 2007, we helped RegCure with our tech content to become the world's best selling Microsoft Windows System Registry software cleaner of all time, with sales in 2010 of more than 10 million products. Think about commissions. Passive income. Think about the gross and net income we got from them for four years. Active income. By the way, I've been totally blind for more than eight years now, so I did this with my wife, Cherry. Yes, with no eyesight. Many people lack the initiative and motivation to do everything they need to achieve their goals, so this might give you some boost (it's a video narrative of yours truly, with the Asia Pacific Center on Disability):

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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Marianne Gonne View Post

      It's a lot harder to attract high-paying clients if you're a jack-of-all-trades, because they'll assume you're a master of none.
      Unless you build up a team of specialized writers. Then you have the advantage of being a one stop shop for all types of content.
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      • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ganero View Post

        stop dreaming too high..
        set a moderate goal.. but still challenging.
        start another goal when you reach the first goal.
        just start your service right away.
        Keep on dreaming too high as high as the unfathomable sky. So what did the old cliche say? 'Aim for the stars, and if you fail, you land on the moon.' It's somewhat like comical in nature but that's indeed true.

        I believe that the higher you set your goals, the stronger and wiser your action plans are. Scientifically speaking, the higher you set the originating position of a stone when you throw it, the faster its acceleration becomes as it goes down due to the gravitational pull. In life and in business, the higher you set your goals, the deeper your aspiration and motivation become.

        Originally Posted by Marianne Gonne View Post

        It's a lot harder to attract high-paying clients if you're a jack-of-all-trades, because they'll assume you're a master of none.
        For most part of your post, I agree, Marianne. However, knowing so little about so many things isn't an entry to be disqualified to being called as a sought-after provider of whatever product or service you deliver. You are right when you said if you know how to do so many things, potential clients may/will assume that you're a master of none. Experienced and hardcore Internet marketers know that their fellow Internet marketers/service providers do not have an area of specialization. In IM, you can't afford to be a master of one or two things. Things are constantly changing. Just like what I read from one of the old posts in this forum, the guy asked how can you be a master of something that's constantly changing. That's the very same reason why Computer Science students don't have board exams. Technology keeps on changing. You can only be called a master of one thing once you've reached the very end of 'that' thing. IM-wise, I don't think there'll be an end to what IM can bring to all of us. Watch out for those who are claiming that they're masters of any field in IM. We need to ask them what IM can bring by the year 2050.:rolleyes:

        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Unless you build up a team of specialized writers. Then you have the advantage of being a one stop shop for all types of content.
        You hit the nail on the head, Joe. That's why I answered a 'yes' to the question 'Can you make $4k/month from article writing?'
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

          Scientifically speaking, the higher you set the originating position of a stone when you throw it, the faster its acceleration becomes as it goes down due to the gravitational pull.
          Scientifically speaking, I believe that once the rock has reached a height where it will drop at terminal velocity, anything above doesn't matter too much. It will still be moving at terminal velocity once it hits the ground.


          Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

          However, knowing so little about so many things isn't an entry to be disqualified to being called as a sought-after provider of whatever product or service you deliver.
          This is the mindset that leads everyone and their mother to think that they could be a writer, and it has contributed both to the bottoming out of writing pay for IM writers and the influx of bad content on the web.

          Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

          You are right when you said if you know how to do so many things, potential clients may/will assume that you're a master of none. Experienced and hardcore Internet marketers know that their fellow Internet marketers/service providers do not have an area of specialization.
          No, newbie internet marketers think that. Then they buy penny per word content, flame out, and are replaced by the next wave of newbie marketers. The "experienced and hardcore internet marketers" know better.

          Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

          In IM, you can't afford to be a master of one or two things
          Lol, really? :rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

          Things are constantly changing. Just like what I read from one of the old posts in this forum, the guy asked how can you be a master of something that's constantly changing.
          Simple, because someone who is a true master of their craft, and not someone posing as a master, evolves with their craft. Surely you know this as a writer?

          Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

          That's the very same reason why Computer Science students don't have board exams. Technology keeps on changing. You can only be called a master of one thing once you've reached the very end of 'that' thing.
          That is a very crippling mindset, unless it is just an attempt at self justification for not reaching mastery of something yourself...

          Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

          IM-wise, I don't think there'll be an end to what IM can bring to all of us. Watch out for those who are claiming that they're masters of any field in IM. We need to ask them what IM can bring by the year 2050.:rolleyes:
          The exact same thing that marketing in general has been bringing us since the beginning of barter and trade thousands of year ago?
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          • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            Simple, because someone who is a true master of their craft, and not someone posing as a master, evolves with their craft. Surely you know this as a writer?
            I think I have a deeper definition for the word 'master,' Joe. I know that '1+1=2' but I don't easily accept it like that. I analyze how did it become '2,' if you know what I mean.

            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            That is a very crippling mindset, unless it is just an attempt at self justification for not reaching mastery of something yourself...
            You are indeed, correct. If I were to take an exam about anything that I love the most and perfect it, I won't still consider myself a 'master' of that subject. Most, if not all, are changing. Why do I think like that? Please refer to my answer above.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

              I think I have a deeper definition for the word 'master,' Joe. I know that '1+1=2' but I don't easily accept it like that. I analyze how did it become '2,' if you know what I mean.



              You are indeed, correct. If I were to take an exam about anything that I love the most and perfect it, I won't still consider myself a 'master' of that subject. Most, if not all, are changing. Why do I think like that? Please refer to my answer above.
              Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. I'm just telling you that your standards are completely wrong. I believe you do so because it is the only way to justify your service to your customers; but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. In this thread at least, you are representing the essence of a bottom rung content provider: you need potential customers to believe that content is content is content and that no one can specialize or "master" a certain type of writing. If your clientele believed that, why would they need to go with you? For writing that an 8th grader can read? For Copyscape passed content? Heck, every writer claims to deliver that.

              I think specialized and mastery level writers scare the lower echelon of writers, and frankly it is hilarious. Why? Because higher level writers don't need and definitely don't want the clients that you are trying to dupe. The only reason that those writers can be duped in the first place is because they don't understand how to use content, and believe they can get something usable on the cheap.

              So let's call a spade a spade here, and admit that certain writers can and do master certain types of writing all the time. You don't have to worry about scaring off any potential clients, not from the masters at least. If there was any group you'd want to deflect attention from, you would probably want to make that the other competitors at and below your price point. They are the real threat since they offer the same basic thing at lower prices...

              My $.02 anyways. Take the advice or leave it, it's your business.

              Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

              OMG, that's a lot of business for all of us. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for this real information, Marianne.
              Not your clientele base .
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              • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying. I'm just telling you that your standards are completely wrong. I believe you do so because it is the only way to justify your service to your customers; but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. In this thread at least, you are representing the essence of a bottom rung content provider: you need potential customers to believe that content is content is content and that no one can specialize or "master" a certain type of writing. If your clientele believed that, why would they need to go with you? For writing that an 8th grader can read? For Copyscape passed content? Heck, every writer claims to deliver that.

                I think specialized and mastery level writers scare the lower echelon of writers, and frankly it is hilarious. Why? Because higher level writers don't need and definitely don't want the clients that you are trying to dupe. The only reason that those writers can be duped in the first place is because they don't understand how to use content, and believe they can get something usable on the cheap.

                So let's call a spade a spade here, and admit that certain writers can and do master certain types of writing all the time. You don't have to worry about scaring off any potential clients, not from the masters at least. If there was any group you'd want to deflect attention from, you would probably want to make that the other competitors at and below your price point. They are the real threat since they offer the same basic thing at lower prices...

                My $.02 anyways. Take the advice or leave it, it's your business.
                Not your clientele base .
                Hi Joe,

                Thank you for giving your honest and cool feedback. Being a Senior Warrior, you deserve our ears who have just joined this forum only this month.

                I didn't expect that my definition for the 'mastery of the subject matter' will make you very busy responding to every thread I post. I completely understand what you're saying and pointing out. I'm not from Mars who can't relate to normal people who sleep in the evening and wake up in the morning. Perhaps, me saying that I'm a transcendentalist will make you understand why I'm still figuring out and finding a deeper meaning why '1+1=2' and why I have a different meaning for the topic that we've been debating in a healthy manner.

                Ideally, I don't want to set myself in an offensive mode because it's not my cup of tea. I just have one favor if you don't mind me asking. Please don't make it appear, through your words and habitual twitching of your eyes, that I was born yesterday. Everyone deserves to have his own point of view. I didn't say that you're wrong on what you believe in. I didn't say that I'm right. One more, please don't think that you're always right just because somebody else is hitting the 'thank you' button on your posts.

                I know you're a cool dude, which is good, at least, to those who keep on thanking your posts. However, don't make it a habit to be tactless all the way, especially to those whom you don't know personally and to those who are not aware of your level of coolness, if that's how you call it.

                We belong to the same league of delivering writing services. Let's not bash one another. Content Writing 360° is here to learn and to contribute in our own small ways.

                It's not my initial intention to post this message here. But I just want to make a stand on what I believe in. Content Writing 360° is here to read posts, learn from them, and share whatever we have learned to those who would like to learn, too. We give the credit to those who have taught us kindly.
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                • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                  Banned
                  Prospective writers! Are you paying attention?

                  I could continue this back and forth until kingdom come and pull this thread further off track; but that would be rude. Instead, let me show you guys a few lessons that contentwriting360 kindly left behind for us regarding argumentative writing. Heed these lessons, and you will be much closer to hitting that 4k per month!

                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  Hi Joe,
                  Solid start. When possible, you want to name or confront the opposing party directly. It gives strength to your writing, instead of a passive aggressive "I don't like what this guy is saying."


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  Thank you for giving your honest and cool feedback. Being a Senior Warrior, you deserve our ears who have just joined this forum only this month.
                  Right idea, poor execution. A great argumentative tactic is to show empathy, understanding, and respect to your opponent. However, you must do so in the most honest and professional manner possible. The best that this author could come up with was "honest" and "cool". They are weak descriptors. Further, the poster goes out of their way to diminish themselves as the lowly newbie who just joined. Don't make this mistake. It's the equivalent of rolling over and showing your belly. As you will now observe, it leaves the opponent open to go in for the kill.

                  What should he have written?

                  I appreciate your opposing point of view. You obviously have experience in the field and a passion for the subject at hand. Even those of us with opposing points of view can see that.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  I didn't expect that my definition for the 'mastery of the subject matter' will make you very busy responding to every thread I post. I completely understand what you're saying and pointing out. I'm not from Mars who can't relate to normal people who sleep in the evening and wake up in the morning.
                  Again, right idea and wrong execution. You want to point out flaws in the opponents arguments as quickly and definitively as possible; but make sure they are strong arguments. The poster here chose to go with the "you're following me around" mantra, a very weak insult that shouldn't be used unless the argument stretches for weeks and there is nothing left to say. It now leaves the respondent to reply with something like this:

                  I am merely replying to your replies, contentwriting360. You see, we are conversing in a thread that prospective writers are very likely to see, and you are spreading ideals and information that can seriously handcuff them. The wrong person believes what you are saying, and their career is screwed before it starts. I'm merely correcting your misinformation, protecting newbies if you will.
                  And how the heck can one come back from that? "You're a stupid face" or something equivalent? Publishers aren't going to pay for that kind of content.

                  What should he have written?

                  It seems that my point of view is much different than yours, and undoubtedly in the minority amongst established writers who charge more than a penny per word. Mastery is in fact not an unattainable trait for a writer to gain (such as in copywriting, syndication content, etc.). What I should have said was either:

                  I preach that mastery cannot be achieved so that prospective clients do not click away looking for someone better.

                  or

                  I merely misrepresented my personal philosophy, which is that there is always room to grow. Regardless, trying to fit my point of views into the validity of a title was quite foolish, and I should know better as a writer.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  Perhaps, me saying that I'm a transcendentalist will make you understand why I'm still figuring out and finding a deeper meaning why '1+1=2' and why I have a different meaning for the topic that we've been debating in a healthy manner.
                  The OP brought their philosophy into the game. You see the technique used often, as a means to deter potential counterarguments. A respondent who puts down someone's philosophy is nothing more than a religious troll, right? It makes one think that this would be the master stroke to use while creating an argumentative piece.

                  In this case, it unfortunately isn't. Let's see what the respondent would say:

                  Your personal philosophy is all well and good, but has little to do with mastery as we are discussing it here. Frankly as a writer, what you view mastery as because you are a "transcendentalist" has literally nothing to do with the situation. You don't get to decide who has or hasn't mastered what kind of writing. You are merely the provider. It is up to the customer to decide who has mastered what, and if you ever get the opportunity to move out of the shallow end of the pool, you'll see that a great deal of clients feel that they have a "master writer" on their hands.

                  Funny, I expected something a little bit stronger from a customer service representative when it came to handling this kind of stuff.
                  That's the end of the lessons folks. The rest is just personal drivel directed at me, and I will debunk that personally .


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  Ideally, I don't want to set myself in an offensive mode because it's not my cup of tea.
                  Trust me, I am well aware of that much.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  I just have one favor if you don't mind me asking. Please don't make it appear, through your words and habitual twitching of your eyes, that I was born yesterday.
                  I hate to break it to you, but even I am not good enough of a writer to completely debunk your intelligence because of one incorrect point in one thread. Any hits to your ego or your perceived intelligence are self created unfortunately, and I do not hold the degrees to counsel those types of problems. Sorry .


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  Everyone deserves to have his own point of view.
                  Never said you couldn't have yours. Did I at any point say "shut up, you need to stop speaking?" Didn't think so. If anyone seems to have a problem allowing someones opposing point of view to be voiced, it is yourself. Once again, that comes down to the whole facing your own demons bit.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  I didn't say that you're wrong on what you believe in. I didn't say that I'm right.
                  But you believe that you were right, hence the continued responses. Don't back down on your original point now, that just makes you look weak and like you didn't believe it in the first place. Take a stand one way or the other. Either openly admit that you were wrong in what you said, or stand by it. You know, like an adult would. A 22 year old shouldn't have to teach you that.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  One more, please don't think that you're always right just because somebody else is hitting the 'thank you' button on your posts.
                  Lol, you obviously put much more value on my "thanks" count than I do. If that's all it takes to intimidate you, you're going to have a rough go here my dude.

                  If you must know, I think I'm right because I trust my knowledge and the arguments I craft to support it. I may be a cocky little kid (who isn't at my age), but I am far from close minded. You haven't provided a suitable counterargument that would cause me to step down from my position. So why exactly should I feel that I am incorrect?


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  I know you're a cool dude, which is good, at least, to those who keep on thanking your posts.
                  My customers seem to think so too . You're going to have to do a lot better in the insults department. If you haven't already figured it out, I'm a few levels above you in that department.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  However, don't make it a habit to be tactless all the way, especially to those whom you don't know personally and to those who are not aware of your level of coolness, if that's how you call it.
                  I'd call it intelligence, tenacity, and a few other positive adjectives as well. You're the one hung up on cool. But hey, view me however you have to. My ego is such that I'm cool with the pedestal no matter what it was built on.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  We belong to the same league of delivering writing services.
                  NO. Not even close. Heck, I'm not holding my breath on your company ever getting close. No, no, no, no and no. I hope you weren't planning on using that as a marketing tactic (We're in the same writing league as Joe Robinson!), because I'm going to point them straight to this.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  Let's not bash one another. Content Writing 360° is here to learn and to contribute in our own small ways.
                  I merely respond to what you write. Ball is in your court.


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  It's not my initial intention to post this message here. But I just want to make a stand on what I believe in.
                  Once again, man up and let's call a spade a spade here. What you mean to say is that you wanted to send this as a PM because you are feeling butt hurt; but felt that you had such a strong argument that you would go public with it and try to talk me into a corner.

                  How'd that work out for ya?


                  Originally Posted by contentwriting360 View Post

                  Content Writing 360° is here to read posts, learn from them, and share whatever we have learned to those who would like to learn, too. We give the credit to those who have taught us kindly.
                  Well then, hopefully you will recognize this as a hard lesson that you needed to learn .
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                  • Profile picture of the author MP80
                    Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                    Prospective writers! Are you paying attention?

                    <snip>

                    ..hopefully you will recognize this as a hard lesson that you needed to learn .
                    Maybe I'm missing the humour here (or perhaps you are drunk) but surely you can't be serious?

                    If not, then that is perhaps the most arrogant and condescending post that I've ever seen here (Lol, in case you are unsure, this is not a compliment!)

                    Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                    I hope you weren't planning on using that as a marketing tactic (We're in the same writing league as Joe Robinson!), because I'm going to point them straight to this.
                    Umm.. Personally, I wouldn't. 'Social aggression' (aka bullying) is kinda uncool these days, and many potential customers may misinterpret your post (as perhaps I did?)

                    Just in case you are serious, it might help to remember that pride often comes before a fall!
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        • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Marianne Gonne View Post

          I wasn't specifically talking about IM in my post. But if I wanted to niche myself as an IM writer, I wouldn't pretend to know everything. Nor would I write about anything and everything from bed bugs to acne.
          Hi Marianne,

          Please don't get me wrong. I just quoted your response because I wanted to start my point of discussion from there but I wasn't referring to you really. My usage of the pronoun 'you' in my previous post is not literally 'you.' Please accept my apology if I have caused you an inconvenience or if I have offended you.
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      • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Unless you build up a team of specialized writers. Then you have the advantage of being a one stop shop for all types of content.
        DOH! [Slaps head] Another lightbulb moment!
        Signature

        I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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  • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
    I am looking to get started in freelance writing,

    I also have no idea how much to write for, I guess I should start low and go from there. When I get higher paying regular clients I can weed out the ones that pay less.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by pupkevicius@aol.com View Post

      I am looking to get started in freelance writing,
      I'd start by optimizing that signature just a bit better:

      Need articles for your website?
      >Need Content is a better thing to say.. Make it all inclusive. Plus, better clients don't respond well to the word "article"
      I am looking for work writing "High Quality Articles" on a wide variety of subjects
      >Wrong tone to set. Now you're starting off in desperation. You come off as the guy "looking for work" instead of the guy that "has work, maybe you'd like some too."
      I am not interested in writing SEO drivel
      >Nothing wrong with not wanting to write that; but wording it like this is a bit aggressive and prima donna-ish for someone admitting they are just starting. Find a more polite way to say it or just tell clients politely when they try to order.
      If you are looking for a university educated writer then please PM me
      >Find a better unique selling proposition. There are plenty of University educated writers. What sets you apart?
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  • Profile picture of the author Seatbelt99
    Absolutely you can make $4000 per month but it takes more than just a good writer to do it. You also have to be a good marketer of your services.

    Some tips for you:
    *Your $10-15 per article is a bit low (by at least half) if you're actually a good writer.
    *Look into sales copy and writing good e-books. If you happen to have a knack for that type of writing you can charge $4000 for one project (I'm working on a $3000 e-book right now and the client has told me he'll have more as soon as I'm done with this one. I expect it will take me 1 full week to complete (40 hours))
    *Consider starting a PLR business. If done correctly it can be a GREAT income and gives you something productive to write between clients.
    *Don't limit yourself to finding clients on WF. There's lots of potential here but this is just one little lake in a world of Oceans.

    Most importantly, don't ever hesitate to ask questions of those who have become successful as writers...Joe Robinson, Tina Golden, Ruth, Ross, JayCu and many others have provided me A LOT of great tips, encouragement and advice that have helped me tremendously.
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  • Profile picture of the author pamon
    agree with most of the topics above. You can make that but you need to be doing it full time and have a "LOT" of clients unless you've developed a specialty niche for the articles that pay a lot. I've done advertising on DP and here and gotten positive results. Done a few offline projects for a DR and PR agency but really wanting to expand into other niches. My specialities for example are in finance, technology, general interest writing, politics, business, and medical/legal matters. Its just a matter of getting the clients on board and then making $$ off that.

    I'm always soliciting for additional clients to help build my business as well, whether its searching CL ads, WF posts, DP forums (although those are a mixed bag), and other forums.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
      I worked at freelance writing before I got into affiliate marketing. I will tell you this - I made good money but I had to write A LOT of articles to do it. I do enjoy affiliate marketing more and make more money doing this than I ever did at writing articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author AbbyBryant
    I too worked as a freelancer but now I have some other plan. It's purely our decision where we want to get in and what is our area of interest. Easily you can earn that much if you could focus on quality of your articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author nasuryono
    Yes, you can definitely earn that amount of money. It will depends on two things though:

    1. Your writing skill
    2. Your productivity (how many articles can you produce in one hour)

    You can use 2 models:

    1. Write extremely high quality and well researched articles and charge premium price for it OR
    2. Churn out standard, readable quality article at a very fast speed (7 minutes per article)

    Both are doable and you can definitely achieve your goal if you stick to your plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author mhaddyness
    Yes, you can. Depending on:

    - your writing skill
    - how many articles you can write in a day
    - your rate in writing the articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I use to do this back in the day.

    Here was my formula...hope it helps.

    1) Offer free articles to hone writing skills.

    2) Do not go for chit kickers charge high prices and only go for high end clients.

    3) Repeat customers is how you can really kill it with this service.

    4) Start testing prices....I even charged up to $50 - $60 per article. (dont laugh, people will pay this, if it is going to help their business and you can write well)

    5) Do not wait for customers to come to you, go to them, and help them and offer your services. That is how I got 30 or so high paying customers quickly and did not need anyone else or have to advertise on the warrior forum.

    6) Ask your high paying customers to refer others to you. This is a good way to leverage your article writing business as well.

    This is a good way to go from $0 to $4k a month quickly. You just have to realise its all about quality and high paying clients. There are people out there that will pay $100 for an article that will bring them good results. I have done this numberous time hunting for article writers for our business.

    Heck just in this one post I have written, I have thought of an idea for someone to arbitrage articles....i.e. meaning you could be the middle man, and get a good article writer who charges reasonable prices, and then go to high end clients and charge them double what you pay for them. So you become the middle man and hardly do much work (or lets say the writing part) at all.

    See just have to think outside the box when it comes to working online.
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  • Profile picture of the author ganero
    stop dreaming too high..
    set a moderate goal.. but still challenging.
    start another goal when you reach the first goal.
    just start your service right away.
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    • Profile picture of the author mhaddyness
      Originally Posted by ganero View Post

      stop dreaming too high..
      set a moderate goal.. but still challenging.
      start another goal when you reach the first goal.
      just start your service right away.
      I don't see any reason why OP shouldn't dream too high. Dreaming high motivates a person to reach their goal. It's what drives them to success. It works for me. I mean I won't be doing what I'm doing right now if not for that. If I didn't dream big, I probably would have been contented doing an 8-5 job with a meager salary.
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  • Profile picture of the author greenleaf5
    In the freelance writing world, how much you can make depends on the writing niche you target. If you become a freelance corporate writer, writing, for example, white papers, it's easier to reach your financial goal.
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  • Profile picture of the author footbag_man
    Originally Posted by 1Dina View Post

    I've been thinking of writing full-time and was wondering if I could make $4k/month from writing articles?

    Any advice from other Warriors would be nice

    In my experience the answer is: hell no..

    People will not pay $15 for 500 words when they can outsourse to the Philipines and get it for $2.

    Article marketing is not what it used to be anyway.

    I think you should look at different options.

    Fergal
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by footbag_man View Post

      In my experience the answer is: hell no..

      Newbie IMers will not pay $15 for 500 words when they can outsourse to the Philipines and get it for $2.
      Fixed that for you, and you're right. So how about targeting someone else? They are far from the only people looking for content you know.

      Originally Posted by footbag_man View Post

      Article marketing is not what it used to be anyway.
      Will this myth ever die? Article directory marketing is dead. Real article marketing is just as strong as ever.
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      • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Marianne Gonne View Post

        • 90% of B2B companies are using some form of content marketing.
        • 60% of B2B companies will spend more on content marketing in 2012.
        • B2B companies will invest 26% of their total budgets on content marketing.

        The CEO of SocialMediadd.com and marketing expert Brandon Gaille had the following to say about the recent stats on content marketing:

        "With the recent Panda updates to the Google search algorithm, content marketing has become a vital must for all businesses to use in their marketing mix. We are seeing many businesses hire on professional writers and video production specialists to beef up their content marketing team in 2012."

        Source: SocialMediadd

        Endless B2B and B2C companies need content. This is how to make $4k/month (and more).
        OMG, that's a lot of business for all of us. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for this real information, Marianne.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by footbag_man View Post

      People will not pay $15 for 500 words when they can outsourse to the Philipines and get it for $2.
      And those $2 articles are just so super awesome.

      Of course, the $15 articles aren't frequently anything to write home about either.

      Fortunately, outside the Warrior Forum (and perhaps even inside in some of the dark corners no one talks about), there are people that see value in articles beyond being mere SEO fodder and are willing to pay much more than pocket change for a quality article.

      A writer would have to write sixty-seven 500-word articles at $15 each to make $1,000 a week. That's 33,500 words of content! In some circles, 33,500 words of content is equivalent to $16,750. Of course, there might not be that much demand, which is okay, because I think I'd prefer to write four 500-word articles a week for $1,000 than sixty-seven of them for the same amount of money, you know?
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  • Profile picture of the author Vlad Bacioiu
    Don't start thinking of making that money by writing 5$ articles...
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  • Profile picture of the author Menzieshunt
    A friend of mine just sold her first article to a building magazine at £1 a word - now if you're charging those rates it must be do-able! It was a 250 word article - made me think that a lot of people don't charge enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author budsman
    I don't know how much you intend to charge per article but you can get a well-written, professional 300-word article for $12 at Writer Access or Elance. So, to make $4000 a month at that rate, you will have to write, on average, at least 10 articles a day for 30 days. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    First, pay no attention to remarks like budsman. Or anyone else who tells you it is impossible. The people who want to pay $2 or $12 for an article should not be your target market.

    Anything is possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author whitefang842
    Yes you can.
    You need to know how to write and you need to make it interesting and short because most people hate reading or are very busy to read ti whole.
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  • Profile picture of the author sellmesomething
    I have tried writing articles but ive never had any success despite buying countless WSO's on the subject. Good Luck to you tho.
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  • Profile picture of the author samjaynz
    Nah, probably not

    In all seriousness, however, it is a possible goal. Attaining such a figure depends on your clients, where you advertise your work, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author enterforum
    ya..you can make $4/month or even more if you are professional writer...

    there are lots of article writing site on which you can start or start your own blog..

    best of luck..
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  • You've asked a really good question.
    If you are trying to write for someone else as a service the answer is probably not. This is because you will be competing with so many people across the globe that its really not that profitable.

    But if you are talking about writing articles that make you money through adsense, affiliate offers, and other means for monetization then yes! You can definetly make 4000$ or more...possibly even residually

    Surprisingly its not about how well you write as it is about how informative you are. Most of the info out there is sooo fluff that it seriously doesn't take much to stand out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

      If not, then that is perhaps the most arrogant and condescending post that I've ever seen here
      You think so? That exciting/controversial/ballsy/mean? I didn't even put pants on to write it. Shoot, I guess I can never show you something I write on a controversial topic, you'd fall sideways out of your chair!

      Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

      (Lol, in case you are unsure, this is not a compliment!)
      Taking it as one anyways.

      Originally Posted by MorbitlyObesePaypalAccoun View Post

      If you are trying to write for someone else as a service the answer is probably not. This is because you will be competing with so many people across the globe that its really not that profitable.
      Except service providers do make $4k per month, and a lot more. Just not at the bottom of the market.
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      • Profile picture of the author MP80
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        You think so? That exciting/controversial/ballsy/mean? I didn't even put pants on to write it. Shoot, I guess I can never show you something I write on a controversial topic, you'd fall sideways out of your chair!
        So, you are being controversial in order to attract potential clients to your business?

        I can see some logic in that.. This thread has, so far, had over 1160 views, which is [let's just say] 1000 potential clients to whom you are 'showcasing your talents'. In essence, every thread becomes a potential sales thread, and every person you speak to/at/about (plus, many others who are silently observing) are your potential customers.

        Can you see the irony, in using a thread/forum to build your business, while simultaneously insulting and being aggressive to your potential clients?

        Would you do that on your actual sales thread (lol, maybe don't answer that ), because that is pretty much what you are doing here? For someone who *claims* to be intelligent, that doesn't actually make a lot of sense at all.

        To a certain extent though, you are right.. It is ballsy; especially considering how many other excellent writers there are here (not only in this forum, but also in just this thread) to choose from.

        Either way, imho, being 'controversial' is no excuse for (and not to be confused with) being rude, and talking 'down' to people.

        /0.02c
        Signature
        Before you do ANYTHING else in your day - do at least ONE thing that brings money into your business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

          So, you are being controversial in order to attract potential clients to your business?
          Easy misconception to make. The problem is, my class of client isn't frequenting these kinds of threads .

          Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

          I can see some logic in that.. This thread has, so far, had over 1160 views, which is [let's just say] 1000 potential clients to whom you are 'showcasing your talents'. In essence, every thread becomes a potential sales thread, and every person you speak to/at/about (plus, many others who are silently observing) are your potential customers.
          Fortunately not. My best and most loyal clients at my current price point have never even heard of the Warrior Forum, and it's in my best interest to keep it that way. But I've given my point of view on how the IM market bottomed out prices and all that nonsense multiple times in both this and other threads.

          Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

          Can you see the irony, in using a thread/forum to build your business, while simultaneously insulting and being aggressive to your potential clients?
          If the forum was where I pulled in the bulk of my business, why yes I could.

          Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

          Would you do that on your actual sales thread (lol, maybe don't answer that ),
          Probably shouldn't answer it lol, because if I could fit it in I probably would.

          Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

          because that is pretty much what you are doing here? For someone who *claims* to be intelligent, that doesn't actually make a lot of sense at all.
          That's because you are still looking at this as an attempt at self promotion. Couldn't be further from it. I'm in a debate here. I'm having fun. This forum isn't a major selling platform for me. More than anything else it is my time to socialize and hone my argumentative skills. Those who know me see the common themes. Those who don't? They either decide "Man, Joe's a trip. Funny guy." Or "Man, Joe's a douche." My business survives either way.


          Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

          To a certain extent though, you are right.. It is ballsy; especially considering how many other excellent writers there are here (not only in this forum, but also in this thread) to choose from.
          And believe it or not the type of Warrior reading this thread will never choose me. Why? The majority are looking to make money writing themselves, came over here because I pointed out that I was having fun here through other channels, or are casual browsers who have already seen me, my work, and my signature countless times and decided not to buy.



          Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

          Either way, imho, being 'controversial' is no excuse for (and not to be confused with) being rude, and talking 'down' to people.

          /0.02c
          Not an excuse I'm making (or tried to make. Are you sure you aren't making up a conversation with me in your head?) at all. In fact, I mentioned in one my Skype groups that I fully expected the post to be deleted, because it went far more personal than I tend to go. I saw the killshot for the debate staring me in the face though, so I took it. As you can see, it worked .
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          • Profile picture of the author MP80
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            ...
            Easy misconception to make. The problem is, my class of client isn't frequenting these kinds of threads .

            Over 1000 people viewing the thread, and not one of them are your 'class' of client? Well, that's a bit of a sweeping generalization, wouldn't you say?

            Fortunately not. My best and most loyal clients at my current price point have never even heard of the Warrior Forum, and it's in my best interest to keep it that way.

            But they have heard of the internet, right? This is not the private section of the forum, you know?

            If the forum was where I pulled in the bulk of my business, why yes I could.

            I can see why it's not though; can you? I'm not saying this to be derogatory.. You do have enough [writing] talent at least, to make it happen.

            That's because you are still looking at this as an attempt at self promotion.

            Actually, I'm not really.. I get what you're saying here. My point is more that a this is a public forum and, whether you like it or not, potential customers are always watching, listening, judging and taking mental note.

            Couldn't be further from it. I'm in a debate here. I'm having fun..

            Yes, I understand about debate, but in an intelligent debate, there is no need to resort to the lowest common denominator. Likewise, it's great to have fun, but does it have to be at someone else's expense? The one thing that most people here are not, is your opponent.. They are actually your equal (sorry for the ego bruising. :p)

            ..And believe it or not the type of Warrior reading this thread will never choose me. Why? The majority are looking to make money writing themselves, came over here because I pointed out that I was having fun here through other channels, or are casual browsers who have already seen me, my work, and my signature countless times and decided not to buy.

            So, you are not doing business here.. but you have a sales thread, thousands of posts, each with a link in your signature? And yet, some people still refuse to buy.. Once again, can you see any possible reason why, other than they are just 'casual browsers', that this would be the case?

            Are you sure you aren't making up a conversation with me in your head?

            Lol, this is actually perhaps the most thought-provoking thing that you have said yet. No, I'm not entirely sure, but it certainly is a possibility. (Since I read Fin's book and started lucid dreaming, anything is!)

            I mentioned in one my Skype groups that I fully expected the post to be deleted, because it went far more personal than I tend to go.

            Well, if it is deleted, then it wasn't I who reported it (not that it matters.) Since this is a public discussion forum, I do believe that everyone has a right to their opinion, and to express it. Of course that goes both ways.

            Reassuring though, to know that you do at least have a heart, and a conscience, and at least had given it a second-thought.
            Signature
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              Over 1000 people viewing the thread, and not one of them are your 'class' of client? Well, that's a bit of a sweeping generalization, wouldn't you say?
              Sweeping, and like it or not probably accurate. The ones who would be in that class are like I said casual browsers. Otherwise, what possible reason do they have to come to this thread? As I already pointed out these browsers have already seen me and decided not to buy. Don't chase what you can't get. Plain. And. Simple.

              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              But they have heard of the internet, right? This is not the private section of the forum, you know?
              So in essence, you are hoping that they will 1. Figure out that the Warrior Forum exists 2. Make the connection that I may be a member (keep in mind that non-WF clients never even hear the words "internet marketing" from me) 3. Find this post amongst thousands that exist and thousands that will after and 4. That they will agree with your assessment of the situation (as you may or may not have noticed, you are the only one who has said something on it so far. Everyone else thanked, or didn't and moved on with the conversation.

              That's a lot to bank on, isn't it? And they aren't happening upon me and the Warrior Forum through random Google searches, that's for sure. Go Google Joe Robinson.


              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              I can see why it's not though; can you? I'm not saying this to be derogatory.. You do have enough [writing] talent at least, to make it happen.
              Quite clearly, although obviously not for whatever reason you have cooked up in your head. The vast, vast majority of the users here are not my market. They want $.01 per word content ideally. $.03 per word is pushing it. For $.05 per word they expect you to be on the level of Ernest Hemingway. I get PMs and emails from members all the time who see my writing throughout the forum and want to hire me without reading my sales copy.

              They balk the second they hear the price. They didn't even know it was possible. Off the forum though? I'm low balling, by a lot. It's why my prices are going up to $.25 per word in days, $.50 by the fall, and $1.00 before the end of the year. You think my market is small on the WF now (and it really is), it'll be nearly nonexistent by 2013.

              The entire point you are trying to base your counterargument on is moot, has been since April when I bumped prices to $.10 per word.

              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              Actually, I'm not really.. I get what you're saying here. My point is more that a this is a public forum and, whether you like it or not, potential customers are always watching, listening, judging and taking mental note.
              And once again you are hoping that they will all agree with you. We're well over the 7 billion mark in worldwide population now, right? Staggering number. The vast majority won't like me, and a great deal will hate me, often for no apparent reason. I've come to grips with that, and am a stable enough person mentally to not deal with it. This one post that has you hung up (and every other one with it) is going to turn people off of my personality.

              I get that, but I don't worry about it. Why not? Because there will also be another group that agrees and likes what I say, how I say it, and why I say it. Those are the people I can choose to associate with, and if they are looking for content, the people I can sell to. I am nowhere near naive enough to try to chase down anyone and everyone.

              I'm not exactly sure why you think I should need to.


              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              Yes, I understand about debate, but in an intelligent debate, there is no need to resort to the lowest common denominator. Likewise, it's great to have fun, but does it have to be at someone else's expense?
              It certainly can be, and in this case I'll admit it was. I thoroughly enjoyed writing that post. Given the opportunity, I'd probably write it again. I didn't call his mother a whore, didn't denounce his life, didn't tell him to jump off a bridge, or any other common internet slur that teens and adults alike throw out daily. If this is that bad to you, don't venture out onto other websites.

              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              The one thing that most people here are not, is your opponent..
              Which is why you rarely see me in deep debate with people period, and on this level only once. One of those generalizations you were speaking of earlier .

              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              They are actual your equal (sorry for the ego bruising. :p)
              Many yes, but not all. (Sorry to mess up your world view).

              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              So, you are not doing business here.. but you have a sales thread, thousands of posts, each with a link in your signature? And yet, some people still refuse to buy.. Once again, can you see any possible reason why, other than they are just 'casual browsers', that this would be the case?
              Same reason I allow my affiliate sites that syndicate articles to gain their rankings in Google. The traffic isn't anything I need to pay the bills; but it is a happy bonus if it turns into something worthwhile.

              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              Well, if it is deleted, then it wasn't I who reported it (not that it matters.) Since it is a public discussion forum, I do believe that everyone has a right to their opinion, and to express it. Of course that goes both ways though.
              I'd expect a locked thread more than anything else at this point. It's been about 24 hours now.

              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              Reassuring though, to know that you do at least have a heart, and a conscience, and at least had given it a second-thought.
              Heck, sometimes I surprise myself.
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              • Profile picture of the author Seatbelt99
                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                Quite clearly, although obviously not for whatever reason you have cooked up in your head. The vast, vast majority of the users here are not my market. They want $.01 per word content ideally. $.03 per word is pushing it. For $.05 per word they expect you to be on the level of Ernest Hemingway. I get PMs and emails from members all the time who see my writing throughout the forum and want to hire me without reading my sales copy.

                They balk the second they hear the price. They didn't even know it was possible. Off the forum though? I'm low balling, by a lot. It's why my prices are going up to $.25 per word in days, $.50 by the fall, and $1.00 before the end of the year. You think my market is small on the WF now (and it really is), it'll be nearly nonexistent by 2013.

                The entire point you are trying to base your counterargument on is moot, has been since April when I bumped prices to $.10 per word.
                I can vouch for Joe on this. It's much easier and more profitable to find people to hire you outside of WF. That doesn't mean that WF doesn't have some good customers which are willing to pay what you're worth, but they are few and far between.

                Just last night I quoted someone on a pretty small project. I offered to do the work they wanted for $50 per page. Each page would have between 100 and 400 words. So that's between $.125 and $.50 per word. His response? Wow, that's not bad at all. He was THRILLED that my prices were so INEXPENSIVE.

                And the thing is, he is right. I was strongly considering charging him $100 per page which I have no doubt he would have gladly paid. Instead I decided to give him a lower rate in hopes that he would refer me to his associates (his business is one in which he works with lots of potential clients I'd love to get in front of).

                I've written for $.01 per word in the past and thanks to the advice of people like Joe, Alexa and others I learned that this was NEVER a good idea.
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              • Profile picture of the author MP80
                Lol, it's a bit like talking to a brick wall (great strategy, btw ), and I'm kinda getting bored now, so I will try to be brief.

                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                The entire point you are trying to base your counterargument on..
                I consider it more of a discussion, really.

                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                ..as you may or may not have noticed, you are the only one who has said something on it so far. Everyone else thanked, or didn't and moved on with the conversation.
                I hadn't noticed, and I couldn't care less. How does the saying go.. 'The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men/Women Do Nothing'. That's human nature I guess. (Kind of dramatic, I know, but I'm sure you get my point.)

                Either way, I am aware that you have many 'friends'.. I will leave it up to them to tell you what you want to hear, or whatever keeps you feeling all warm and fuzzy. I can only speak for myself, and tell you how I see it.

                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                And once again you are hoping that they will all agree with you.
                In case you haven't noticed, I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not. My opinions and beliefs are just that - mine. People can agree/disagree as they see fit.

                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                I'd expect a locked thread more than anything else at this point. It's been about 24 hours now.!
                I'm not exactly sure why? I don't always understand the logic, or mindset, of people reporting stuff, and/or locking/deleting threads.*BIG DISCLAIMER* Unless of course it's spamming and cookie stuffing; hate those spammers, lol, and obviously report a lot of them!

                Anyway, I'm glad that you have all of your ducks in a row, and business is going well. Also enjoyed the discussion

                Later!
                Signature
                Before you do ANYTHING else in your day - do at least ONE thing that brings money into your business.
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                • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

                  Lol, it's a bit like talking to a brick wall (great strategy, btw ), and I'm kinda getting bored now, so I will try to be brief.
                  It's my favorite kind of dance. See who gets talked into a corner first. I'm quite good at it.

                  Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

                  Anyway, I'm glad that you have all of your ducks in a row, and business is going well. Also enjoyed the discussion

                  Later!
                  A worthy opponent indeed .
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MorbitlyObesePaypalAccoun View Post

      If you are trying to write for someone else as a service the answer is probably not. This is because you will be competing with so many people across the globe that its really not that profitable.
      That's why the way to do it is to choose to compete in a market in which you're not competing with "so many people across the globe".

      Call me a skepchick, but I can't help wondering whether (m)any of the people giving negative answers in this thread are aware of the huge number of people who regularly make $4k per month, and a lot more, from article writing.

      Originally Posted by MorbitlyObesePaypalAccoun View Post

      Surprisingly its not about how well you write as it is about how informative you are.
      How informative you are is part of how well you write.

      What it's primarily about is how you market your own writing. However impressive your writing skills, you're unlikely indeed to make a full time living from writing articles without some serious marketing skills, in addition.
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      • Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        That's why the way to do it is to choose to compete in a market in which you're not competing with "so many people across the globe".

        Call me a skepchick, but I can't help wondering whether (m)any of the people giving negative answers in this thread are aware of the huge number of people who regularly make $4k per month, and a lot more, from article writing.



        How informative you are is part of how well you write.

        What it's primarily about is how you market your own writing. However impressive your writing skills, you're unlikely indeed to make a full time living from writing articles without some serious marketing skills, in addition.
        You are right about that. I just think writing for yourself may be an easier way to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Great Gordino
    My tuppence worth..?

    Yes, you can do it, but be prepared for some hard work!
    That puts a lot of people off in the IM world, but there are lots of jobs in the 'real' world that need *really* hard work for $4000 a month!

    Churning out content working for yourself as opposed to working a job for someone else allows you the freedom to do the work when you want.

    That allows you the chance to do things that might not be an option if tied to working hours of a job, and that's why the thought of the hard work shouldn't put anyone off.

    As for writing articles, I always think of a job I had to do with kayaks.

    A client wanted a load of articles, all to do with one brand of kayak, and provided a list of keywords. It was like pulling teeth creating those articles around that list of keywords, as it was hard to get any kind of wriggle room from the list.

    Such is life though, if you choose to go that route.
    Another route mentioned by others is selling PLR - because you have much more flexibility about what you write.

    Good luck!
    Gordon
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  • Profile picture of the author hardinflash
    Making money writing is just like anything else, the better you are at it the more money you're going to make doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Schuman
    Check out training from Angela Booth. She provides a lot of free and paid training on making a full time living writing online.
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    Jeff Schuman - SEO Blog Writer For Hire! Buy affordable, SEO, quality, MMO niche blog articles. Fast turnaround.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian98
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Globalmoney View Post

      "Don't start thinking of making that money by writing 5$ articles..."

      Why not??
      $5 articles are monotonous.
      You are in a situation where there are just as many (if not more) writers as there are clients.
      It would take 800 articles a month, 27 a day, 3 per hour (8 hour work day) to hit the 4k goal.
      If you work through Fiverr, it would take 1000 articles a month, 33 a day, 4 per hour.
      Your clients aren't long term, because their business burns out because the content doesn't work.

      Originally Posted by Adrian98 View Post

      yes , it's achievable if your writing quality is as of Shakespeare ! Thanks
      :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author helixmechanics
    Banned
    You might want to try infobarrel dot com for passive income writing
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  • Profile picture of the author TomBuck
    I would say yes but not realistically. As you would have to work 10+ hours daily and have to have experience to allow you to get up to high rates.
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  • $4,000/month is way too much especially if you are doing on your own. If you are starting out, you need to have a portfolio that showcase your writing skills.

    Want to earn right away? Perhaps, settling with those $5 a pop will be ideal. But as for 4k/month this can be overwhelming. You might end up getting tired of writing and your brain will be drained up that you can't think of a single word anymore.

    To get 4k/month, the fastest way to go is to get high paying clients. Where are you going to get them will be the big question mark. You need to be very good in writing and deliver your work at par with the rest of the writers who are of the same field as you are now right now.

    Good luck on your endeavor!
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  • Profile picture of the author TwinkleToes
    If you don't value your article writing, no one else will.
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    Ask...Because you never stop learning.
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