The WSO Savings Account

If people are doing that then its disgusting and hopefully actions like yours will help stop it becomming common.

However, with that said I asked for refunds for wso's 11 times in one month before, its not because I was doing as you said in your post, but part of my business model is buying and reviewing wso's, but that particular month I bought a whole string of useless wso's, and when I say useless, I mean insulting to my intelligence useless. Never had a bad run like that before or since but I'd be pretty upset if I was struck off from you guys.

Just a worry that I could get mixed up for some cheapskate when I'm genuinely not!

Maybe they were crap? Just kiddin'

I must say I've refunded quite a few WSOs. If I get a WSO and it's a pile of ****, as most of them are, I will request a refund and will post an honest and frank review of the product.

Of course there are some gems in the WSO section, but most WSOs are solely for the vendor to make some quick cash. I've even seen people come to WF as a newbie, asking how they can make money and one suggestion being: Set up a WSO on anything to make money!

REALLY?!

WSOs should not be your source of income but should be a way to help the WF forum.

11 refunds? If you are reviewing WSOs and found them useless then that is your review. Unless your review service is worthless you arguably committed fraud and should not have asked for a refund.

I wish WSOPro had an option to not just ban someone seller by seller, but to allow sellers to ban anyone with X number of refunds across the board over a certain period of time, and to IP ban. That would help stop the fraudsters.

.

Good point Bill. Anybody know how to ban Clickbank affiliates without using any special software... Paydotcom offers it.

Its always surprised me how worked up people get about refunds. You never know the reason they are refunding. Maybe they overspent accidently that month and need the money to pay rent? Who knows. I always say if they refund then they need it more than I do anyway.

But lets take it a step further. If they refund it means 99% of the time that they aren't going to take action on the information they refunded from me to begin with. So really who lost out? If you think the serial refunders or even the crooks who go post your WSOs for others for free (or even the ones who download the WSOs from shady forums) will ever ever take action... or somehow saturate your information... you are sorely mistaken. Only real exception is if your guide was for a black hat method or a quick white hat method. If its black hat.. then you deserve it... if its some other simple 1-2 page wso method.. then chances are someone else thought of it too and it'd be out to the general public soon anyway...

Seriously. The only people you have to worry about spreading your content or using it to the point of making it not as useful are the people who buy and don't seek a refund and actively use your product. Are you about to ban those people too? lol


But yes I agree... someone refunding 11 products needs to be banned... but NOT because you should be afraid of them using that information, but because its disruptive and abusive of the process.

Posted from Warriorforum.com App for Android

I have only ever asked for 2 refunds. In both cases they were WP plugins that just did not work.

My feeling is that if you buy an information product that is supposed to teach you something, and you read it, but not implemented (because you think you know it all already) then you should not be asking for a refund.

But then again, the serial refunders will take absolutely no notice of this thread :p

Di

Ok, I feel I need to explain myself as many here are not getting my point! Yes I asked for 11 refunds in one month, and I had every right to do so. I can say with all honesty I am no serial refunder, in fact those 11 make up around 90% of all wso's I've ever refunded, and I have a hard drive full of poor quality wso's I have never refunded. The reason being is because as I said above if something is poor I will write a poor review to my subscribers and tell them about it! therefore its part of my business and therefore It would be wrong to refund.

For the poster that mentioned my website! really? you think thats my review site? the site in my sig is actually designed to help people stop buying rubbish and shows the sort of wso's I think are value! its not meant as a reveiw site! My reveiwing part of my business is strictly for my lists of subscribers where they recieve a very detailed review of my results good or bad.

As for the paypal comment, I run a very busy offline business using paypal and have for a long time, and getting banned from paypal is so far off the mark! You obviously fear paypal for some reason, but I stick well within the TOS and personally communicate with them on a monthly basis due to the high activity on my account! It really isn't hard to keep on the right side of them if your open and communicate regularly.

As for the 11 refunds, while I can see why some people are saying I should be banned, are you really that arrogant to not look into the facts! If a green grocer goes to several different wholesalers to buy boxes of apples, gets back and finds that 11 of those boxes of apples were rotten and could not provide them to his customers then he would be well withinb his right to return to the wholesalers who sold them and demand a refund, for the reason the apples were completely useless to him or his customers!...........and if you think he would be wrong in doing so and that it would be unfair on the wholesaler, then I would have to question your ethics along with business sense.

Effectively thats what I had was eleven boxes of rotten apples, I cannot describe how bad these products are, 2 were illegal for a start and did get reported, 1 was encouraging its buyers to spam (which I highly disagree with), and another as I was reading seemed familiar, and after checking my hard drive found that 70% of its content was word for word the same as a product already had! this was also reported. The rest were teaching people to do things that would not work and would completely waste the buyers time and money! sorry if you think its wrong of me but if you think you should'nt be asking for refunds on wso's like that then I'm afraid that is everything that is wrong with the wso forum, and as long as you have that attitude all you are doing is giving the green light to scammers to peddle their stuff on here, and is the reason the wso forum is getting such a bad name for itself.

Bottom line is as consumers we all have the right to ask for refunds, and if it means that a scammer is getting his refund rate increased, then good! im glad and I hope it discourages people to buy, and to answer one of the above posts, when I ask for a refund of course I post it in the thread, I'd be doing fellow warriors a dis-service if I did'nt.

If you want to ban me for asking you for a refund, then I don't have a problem with that, because if I have asked for a refund its because your product was complete tripe, and simply I would NOT buy from you again anyway, so banning would have no effect on me whatsover.

If you look at my second post however, I 100% agree with the OP that people who are asking for refunds just to get their money back at the end of the month is completely wrong and these people should be dealt with severely, no doubt about that, but please understand that I am not going to sit back and be scammed by a dodgy wso seller without asking for a refund and neither should any of you!

I have bought quite a few wso's myself. Sometimes because they looked new and I wanted to see what it was all about, and sometimes because, I probably already knew what it was about, but I might see something fresh in it.

I've never had to ask for a refund up to now. This I put down to reading the sales page or ad properly, and checking what others have to say about it, here or elsewhere.

Having said that, surely you must know that people new to this game, may not think to check a product out. They may not think they even have to, and blindly believe all the sales patter. Because let's face it. There's plenty of exagerated total crap on some of these wso ads.

By the way, I sell products I've created, and I simply accept that refunds are part of the game. I don't get that many, but then I don't fill the sales pages with over the top claims and screenshots.

But....to those that are buying anything online, knowing they intend to refund as soon as possible, it's theft, and they need to be stopped from doing it.

TPW I agree with you wholeheartedly, I was never disputing your original post, and as SteveFinch has just stated what you are talking about is theft and any serial refunders should be dealt with.

Steve makes some valid points, alot is to blame for the sales copy and the sales threads making obsurd claims, one of the mentioned refunds I asked for was from a seller who's copy was quite good but a little vague, in the thread I asked outright if the wso was about using twitter and explained that I don't like such products and twitter really does'nt interest me at all! the seller replied stating that he cannot reveal what the content was but to purchase and I won't be disappointed! needless to say the product was twitter and a very poor one at that! as it turned out the seller was being very secretive as he knew if he had told me it was twitter I would'nt of purchased, therefore in my book thats someone who's desperate to make a sale and not listening to potential customers! if he had of answered straight I would'nt of bought and he would'nt of had a another refund pushing up his refund rate.

As Steve says alot is down to the sales copy, but yes I can see how serial refunders who refund at the end of the month is wrong on all levels, all I was doing was trying to state that some refund requests are genuine. For those that are not, don't just ban them, you should make sure you also report them and help put a stop to this happening.

I never meant to turn your thread into a dispute, as first stated I 100% agree with your post, I just get angry when people come on here and get all moral about my post without finding out the true facts first! its offensive and very blinkered to form opinions like that!

To clarify, I do feel sorry for vendors that such cheek is happening from buyers, and like you would always actively do what I can to stop such theft!

Bill, surely if they were only investing in information to grow a business then they wouldn't be in a position to even have 4 or 15 products to refund. Spend within your means and always spend wisely.

Damn Bill! I thought I changed my PayPal information enough times you stopped catching on!

That said, I rarely ask for refunds these days. I mean half of the products in the WSO section are like $7 bucks, and sometimes you can get something for like $.25 (if your up at all hours of the day that is!) Yes I did buy a crappy product, but it also entitles me to a REVIEW... of your product... in a public forum... and, um, ouch!

I will, however, ask for a refund if what is stated in your sales copy is absolutely, positively, NOT what was offered in the product and/or service. That kind of pisses me off! LOL

Also think that the only one really losing out is the person trying to make money online and thinks that a simple purchase of a $7 - $12 report or "system" can do this for them.

Now I am not saying every product doesn't work but they all, in my experience, require MASSIVE action.

Simply looking for a golden ticket will not work.

Unless you are VERY lucky and find one in a Wonka bar and then it is party time!

I havent sold any product on the WSO section yet but i now it is pathetic when people buys your product and return it for no good reason.It is one of the things in business you just have to deal with.

Hello! :-) Do any of the WSO affiliate platforms have a built-in mechanism
for automatically banning a customer after a vendor-specified number of
refunds? If not, wouldn't that be the preferred approach for vendors who
don't want to focus their time (or the time of their virtual help) tallying refund
rates for each customer?

In the short amount of time I've jumped into internet marketing, I have requested quite a few refunds.

It's shady tactics put on by some products where the pre-sales intro is better than the product I am paying for. If some of the people offering these products put as much effort into their item as they do into their pre-sale persuasion, refunds would be less.

It's not the fault of the consumer for the high amount of refunds requested. Its the fault of the screening process that allows them to sell their product in the first place.


There is a problem with agents and/or broker, such as WSO's, clickbank, stock brokers, etc.. they make money regardless of the success or failure it provides the consumer .

Please don't forget that if you do your job right you should increase your sales through offering a refund policy by more than the actual amount of refunds you end up giving.
If you doubt that try offering a WSO with no refund guarantee at all.
See how that hurts!

Even if you did discover that its not more than worth it. You will eventually end up with some unhappy soul who does far more harm by bad mouthing your product than any refund would cost. So why not just keep everyone happy. Its far better to keep em happy, and less aggro.


George

Totally missing my point again Joe, bottom line is if I buy a wso and it is either illegal, unethical or telling me to spam people then I will ask for a refund! Whether that one in every 6 month's or ten in a week, it is wrong and I will expect to be refunded! It really is as simple as that! I don't get what's so confusing or how there is two sides! I'm sure more ethical people would also take offence at this type of wso! Correct me if I'm wrong, but as stated I have been running businesses for a long time, if you don't have morals your business will suffer!

I wonder if these chronic refunders walk back into Chapters after reading a book and say, "meh...I really didn't like it" or, "it rally didn't apply to me". I understand that selling online has a certain trust barrier to overcome, but why are the rules so different for the online world?

If a wso seller has says "100% guaranteed, if you're not happy for any reason we will refund your money". Then the wso seller has no right to complain about excessive or serial refunders. The wso seller just put up huge blinking neon sign attracting this type of buyer!

If a wso seller says "no refunds" and then someone tries to get one, it's on the buyer now, NOT the wso seller.

So the solution is simple, wso sellers should NOT offer refunds if they're getting upset with people taking advantage of them for doing so.

You can only control yourself and what you do, you cannot force your morals onto others and you should never complain if you offer a refund on your product and someone takes advantage of that.

I know serial refunders exist, there's no disputing that. BUT keep them at bay by being up front and saying NO REFUNDS. I think product creators who do that believe more in their product then the guys who offer refunds.

I believe the OP's message is clear:
Serial refunders will do damage to the vendors payment processors.
And that's a fact, especially with PayPal, they consider it as a suspicious activity, and a high risk.
How many refunds to get an alert from paypal? or what percentage? that I don't know.

This sort of serial refunding is unfortunate. Hopefully this post does bring some awareness to the issue and defers others from committing serial refunds in the future. In the long run I don't think serial refunding is as harmful to any one vendor as to bring down their relationship with paypal...most serial refunders like to mix it up and strike on multiple vendors so as to not be noticed...hopefully the solution is within the paypal system! Maybe they should start banning the people who do this type of refunding. They can certainly see a more clear picture of who these people are than any one vendor.

Unconditional refunds are just that. I have seen more and more vendors moving towards a "conditional guarantee" this at least requires an explanation of people before they get a refund. This alone could deter the infamous "serial refunder"

I had a issue with a guy, who simply ruined my WSO thread by buying my WSO and asking for a refund 5 minutes later, because the method I was teaching 'was not his game'. The next day saw my WSO shared all over the internet by the same guy(it was really easy to track him-was using similar nickname). And that guy supposed to be 'reputable' member with 500+ posts. I'm sure most of you experienced the same

I am not a seriel purchaser of WSO , but I checked all the wso on daily basis. I only buy when I really see something interesting or workable and never refunded till date.
In my opinion it is my responsibility to verify and understand the product before pressing the buy button.
If you are refunding several products in a month , it is your fault or lack of intelligence. So be carefull when you buy next time.

Cheers
Amar