The WSO Savings Account

by tpw
64 replies
Everyone who comes to this forum has one thing in common... We are here to learn how to be successful as marketers.

At least in theory...


There are some folks around here who seem to operate from an alternative mindset... And, it is a shame....

Being in a circle of people who create a lot of products that are sold as WSO's, I get to see a world that others don't often get to see.

There are some folks who tend to buy everything we create or promote, then at the end of the month, they start processing refunds, as if they are using WSO purchases as their own personal, private savings account.

WSO Vendors handle these things differently.

Some understand that there is occasionally a product that won't work for folks, and so they offer a lot of leeway to buyers to do refunds.

Yet, when someone requests refunds on 4 or 15 products in just a few days, the gig is up, and vendors ban certain buyers from every purchasing from them again.

As parents, we must teach our kids that their are consequences for their actions, and as a member of this forum, I am just giving you a head's up that their are consequences for your actions in the business world too.

If you cannot afford to invest in your future, by buying access to the information you need to grow your business, then don't buy those products that you cannot afford to buy.

Asking for refunds might seem like a good idea when you find yourself short on cash, but do be aware that even the most patient vendors will likely ban you from purchasing their products when they realize that you are a serial refunder or someone who is simply using their purchases as an alternative to having a saving account.
#account #savings #serial refunders #wso #wso savings account
  • Profile picture of the author louie6925
    If people are doing that then its disgusting and hopefully actions like yours will help stop it becomming common.

    However, with that said I asked for refunds for wso's 11 times in one month before, its not because I was doing as you said in your post, but part of my business model is buying and reviewing wso's, but that particular month I bought a whole string of useless wso's, and when I say useless, I mean insulting to my intelligence useless. Never had a bad run like that before or since but I'd be pretty upset if I was struck off from you guys.

    Just a worry that I could get mixed up for some cheapskate when I'm genuinely not!
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

      If people are doing that then its disgusting and hopefully actions like yours will help stop it becomming common.

      However, with that said I asked for refunds for wso's 11 times in one month before, its not because I was doing as you said in your post, but part of my business model is buying and reviewing wso's, but that particular month I bought a whole string of useless wso's, and when I say useless, I mean insulting to my intelligence useless. Never had a bad run like that before or since but I'd be pretty upset if I was struck off from you guys.

      Just a worry that I could get mixed up for some cheapskate when I'm genuinely not!

      If you refunded 11 vendors, I doubt that you would have been noticed.

      But 11 refunds from the same vendor? Yes, that raises red flags.
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      • Profile picture of the author louie6925
        yeah, definately 11 different vendors
        1. If I bought a useless product from a vendor, I probably would never but again, certainly not 10 more times...
        2. I think I'd be too embarrassed to ask the same guy for multiple refunds..
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

      If people are doing that then its disgusting and hopefully actions like yours will help stop it becomming common.

      However, with that said I asked for refunds for wso's 11 times in one month before, its not because I was doing as you said in your post, but part of my business model is buying and reviewing wso's, but that particular month I bought a whole string of useless wso's, and when I say useless, I mean insulting to my intelligence useless. Never had a bad run like that before or since but I'd be pretty upset if I was struck off from you guys.

      Just a worry that I could get mixed up for some cheapskate when I'm genuinely not!
      Regardless of why you are asking for refunds, you may want to rethink things. Whether or not the products you purchased were rubbish, someone who refunds that many products from different vendors in such a short period of time are going to look VERY suspicious to Paypal.

      You are actually risking YOUR Paypal account by doing so.

      There could only be two reasons as to why someone is refunding that many products in such a short period of time. Either you are a serial refunder or you have a tendency to buy low quality products. Regardless of the reason, you would not be the sort of customer Paypal wants to continue dealing with for too much longer.

      I am not saying it's right or wrong, I am just telling you exactly how a company like Paypal operates. You need to look at things from their point of view and think how that type of behaviour would appear to them.

      If you want to have your Paypal account in a years time then I would stop buying so many products or be a lot more selective as to what you purchase. I haven't heard of many people refund 11 products in a months time. It's very irregular activity and will only serve to cause YOU issues... no one else.
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  • Profile picture of the author manicmethods
    Maybe they were crap? Just kiddin'

    I must say I've refunded quite a few WSOs. If I get a WSO and it's a pile of ****, as most of them are, I will request a refund and will post an honest and frank review of the product.

    Of course there are some gems in the WSO section, but most WSOs are solely for the vendor to make some quick cash. I've even seen people come to WF as a newbie, asking how they can make money and one suggestion being: Set up a WSO on anything to make money!

    REALLY?!

    WSOs should not be your source of income but should be a way to help the WF forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      It seems people new to internet marketing and the forum forget there is a whole other world out there. A better world.

      I'm not speaking about the decent people who put out good stuff, but is it not obvious that the people who just throw out random WSO's every few weeks are just throwing together any old crap and stealing your money off you.

      There are a handful of absolutely amazing blogs out there, all specializing in different topics you need to succeed, and if you can just manage to get away from the forum you will find them. AND THEY ARE FREE.

      People expecting the forum and WSO's to magically make them successful and most certainly barking (like a pitiful little dog) up the wrong tree.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        It seems people new to internet marketing and the forum forget there is a whole other world out there. A better world.

        I'm not speaking about the decent people who put out good stuff, but is it not obvious that the people who just throw out random WSO's every few weeks are just throwing together any old crap and stealing your money off you.

        There are a handful of absolutely amazing blogs out there, all specializing in different topics you need to succeed, and if you can just manage to get away from the forum you will find them. AND THEY ARE FREE.

        People expecting the forum and WSO's to magically make them successful and most certainly barking (like a pitiful little dog) up the wrong tree.
        /Thread.

        You nailed it. Far too many people buy crappy WSO's that promise the world for only $7 and the poor buyers believe it. Granted, not all WSO's are bad of course, many are excellent, but I've got news for you...If someone is making great money online, they won't be selling their "secret" or "method" for only $7/$27/$47 etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Paul Gram View Post

          If someone is making great money online, they won't be selling their "secret" or "method" for only $7/$27/$47 etc.

          Not exactly accurate.

          Most people who begin to sell products do so to diversify their revenue stream, and many "secrets" when used by others will not saturate a given market.

          Take for example some of the Kindle products out there. There are hundreds of thousands of people creating books for the general public, and there is more than enough room in that market for more authors.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
            Originally Posted by tpw View Post

            Not exactly accurate.

            Most people who begin to sell products do so to diversify their revenue stream, and many "secrets" when used by others will not saturate a given market.

            Take for example some of the Kindle products out there. There are hundreds of thousands of people creating books for the general public, and there is more than enough room in that market for more authors.
            Good point. Also, there are always exceptions to the rule. I was talking more about the outrageous claims of make $10,000 in the next 12 days with this secret Kindle trick for only $7.77....That kind of crap.
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            • Profile picture of the author tpw
              Originally Posted by Paul Gram View Post

              Good point. Also, there are always exceptions to the rule. I was talking more about the outrageous claims of make $10,000 in the next 12 days with this secret Kindle trick for only $7.77....That kind of crap.

              LOL

              People believe crap headlines like that? :p
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              Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
              Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
      Originally Posted by manicmethods View Post

      Maybe they were crap? Just kiddin'

      I must say I've refunded quite a few WSOs. If I get a WSO and it's a pile of ****, as most of them are, I will request a refund and will post an honest and frank review of the product.

      Of course there are some gems in the WSO section, but most WSOs are solely for the vendor to make some quick cash. I've even seen people come to WF as a newbie, asking how they can make money and one suggestion being: Set up a WSO on anything to make money!

      REALLY?!

      WSOs should not be your source of income but should be a way to help the WF forum.
      What you should of done is write your review and NOT REFUND you purchased on the pretense to review it and because you thought it was not good instead of doing the work and reviewing it with your honest review you decided to just refund and I tend to agree with our resident lawyer

      I dont know your site but if it only reviews good WSO's it would not really give it credence however if you reviewed every WSO you purchased and reviewed it honestly then you have the foundations of a successful review site and not just reviewing products that you can make money on.

      Kickin it on Amazon

      Gaz Cooper
      Amz Training Academy
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    11 refunds? If you are reviewing WSOs and found them useless then that is your review. Unless your review service is worthless you arguably committed fraud and should not have asked for a refund.

    I wish WSOPro had an option to not just ban someone seller by seller, but to allow sellers to ban anyone with X number of refunds across the board over a certain period of time, and to IP ban. That would help stop the fraudsters.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author louie6925
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      11 refunds? If you are reviewing WSOs and found them useless then that is your review. Unless your review service is worthless you arguably committed fraud and should not have asked for a refund.

      I wish WSOPro had an option to not just ban someone seller by seller, but to allow sellers to ban anyone with X number of refunds across the board over a certain period of time, and to IP ban. That would help stop the fraudsters.

      .
      If you had read my post you would have seen that I said reviewing wso's is a part of my business model. I have many parts to my business and making money by taking action on wso's is part of my income! I'm no different to any other consumer of wso's......I buy them to try and make a profit by taking action on them, and if some shady vendor sells me an insultingly bad product which with my experience know is worthless to anyone and will not work, then I have every right as a consumer to ask for the refund the seller has offered.

      Further more, I obviously wouild not be asking the seller to be an affiliate and therefore wouild not profit a penny from ever owning that product...............so I don't really understand how you are accusing me of fraud! ...........thats a bit of an offensive comment to be fair!

      Also anyone on my lists can vouch that I do give plenty of bad reviews on many products I have purchased that I haven't asked for a refund for! the wso's I was talking about were ones that were so false and as mentioned insulting that I would'nt waste my time reviewing because they were that bad!
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      • Profile picture of the author gwedge
        There is a fast growing problem with this forum and its not going away anytime soon. Its true that everybody is here to learn how to successfully make a living online. But with that comes a vulnerability and a certain amount of desperation due to many of their circumstances.

        With power comes great responsibility and far too many people are taking unfair advantage of the ability to pretend they have the power which they clearly cannot wield with honor.

        There are people who have made good money via the WSO system who teach newbies that the way to make money is by creating WSOs. There are people who admittably have grown from beginner to very successful in short time but that doesn't mean you can teach it.

        Those newbies then create WSOs to teach other newbies how to make money with WSOs and so on and on it goes. The net result is nobody knows who really can teach or who has rehashed a PLR with good sales copy and cannot.

        For this reason, with last weeks newbies (claiming status they should not) teaching this weeks newbies the ropes. The refund system is perpetuated and will only get worse.

        I find it laughable to read the copy of a 25 year old calling himself a veteran. But peoples desparation sucks them in to the empty promises of the sales copy.

        This is getting close to the old scammy cycle of "Buy my get rich quick system and get rich yourself by selling my get rich system to the next bunch of suckers"

        It will eventually collapse unless we can do something radical which with so many people profiting will be virtually impossible to do.

        There are tons of stories of customers who refund many times but eventually become great customers who buy several big ticket items and if the marketer had done as you suggest would have lost thousands of dollars in sales.

        Please remember these are human beings with circumstances unknown to you.
        The only way to go is create honest ethical products that will do exactly as you claim in the copy. Offer and Honor your refunds with a smile and you will prosper in the knowledge that you gave them a great opportunity. Not everyone will see it of course, but that will be their loss so just accept it and keep going.

        The problem is made worse because WSOs are very cheap and so people can end up buying too many in a short time. Then they cannot read them all or try them properly because they still have six others to read that "just might be better than this one"
        No wonder they end up refunding most of them. Couple that with the fact that there really are a lot of absolute garbage products peddled and its also not surprising that people often miss the good ones as they flash by.

        Don't Worry, Be Happy! Is more important than all of it.

        regards
        George
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by gwedge View Post

          For this reason, with last weeks newbies (claiming status they should not) teaching this weeks newbies the ropes. The refund system is perpetuated and will only get worse.

          I find it laughable to read the copy of a 25 year old calling himself a veteran. But peoples desparation sucks them in to the empty promises of the sales copy.
          I agree with pretty much everything you said. Those real marketers that don't take a serious look at moving a large portion of their efforts outside of the wso forum are taking a huge risk.

          The wso marketplace has gotten a bit of a reputation in the last couple of years and it seems as though the powers that be are either unwilling or unable to alter its current course.

          As for the 25 year old veteran...I had to laugh. I was a real life 25 year old veteran who had ran profitable internet sites for 9+ years at that point. But i totally get your point. Those are very few and even further between.

          @Bill, I think part of your problem is that you are attracting many of the wrong types of customers either knowingly or by accident. Places like the wso forum and CB have a clear and longstanding reputation for having a disproportional percentage of people who engage in the behavior you speak of.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

            @Bill, I think part of your problem is that you are attracting many of the wrong types of customers either knowingly or by accident. Places like the wso forum and CB have a clear and longstanding reputation for having a disproportional percentage of people who engage in the behavior you speak of.

            Ah, not me... I was simply making an observation about behavior discussed in Skype chats...

            I have cut a marketplace that is very specific, with people who as a rule take their businesses very seriously. My market is probably smaller than some of the other folks, because I try very hard to target the right people in the first place.


            Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

            Its always surprised me how worked up people get about refunds. You never know the reason they are refunding. Maybe they overspent accidently that month and need the money to pay rent? Who knows. I always say if they refund then they need it more than I do anyway.

            My point is not that people are upset by this behavior, but rather that people who can not afford to buy products should not be buying those products to start with.

            As "business owners", we should be responsible not only for what we sell to others, but also what we buy for ourselves.

            Should vendors honestly be willing to take a hit on their "refund rates" as tracked by PayPal or other payment processors, simply because some of their customers are not responsible enough to track their own spending?

            Seriously?

            If someone is refunding 11 of a vendor's products in one month, who is most likely to be hurt by that behavior? The vendor, of course, who suddenly has a higher refund rate than what is average or normal.

            Whether we like it or not, "personal responsibility" is a cost paid by both the buyer and seller, and more often, when the serial refunders strike, it is the vendor who ends up paying the highest price -- not for lost revenues, but rather for lost credibility with payment processors.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

        the wso's I was talking about were ones that were so false and as mentioned insulting that I would'nt waste my time reviewing because they were that bad!
        That is still your review and your opinion that something insults your intelligence. What is beneath you may be very valuable to someone else. If you are a movie critic or restaurant reviewer you do not get to watch the movie or eat the food, declare it unworthy and request a refund over and over and over.

        You also don't get to pick and choose after the fact whether watching the screen or filling your tummy is something for "personal" use or for a "review" because they were "insulting." What you should do is the review and for appropriate offers make personal use of them.

        Even better, follow up with the results of your personal use to add to your review. Briefly looking at your website I do not see any personal results. The "reviews" are, at best, vague and superficial.

        Are you posting your reviews in the WSO threads? Or saving them for your own purpose to profit from? Hopefully in the WSO thread so others can avoid crappy offers. Don't get me wrong about this, I want to see junk offers eliminated. If they do not comply with forum rules they should also be reported.

        You are entitled to disagree with my view that 11 refunds in a month is inappropriate. I am also entitled to ban you and to wish there was a system in place that automatically banned anyone from purchasing my products who had 5 or more refund requests within the last 30 days.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Good point Bill. Anybody know how to ban Clickbank affiliates without using any special software... Paydotcom offers it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    Its always surprised me how worked up people get about refunds. You never know the reason they are refunding. Maybe they overspent accidently that month and need the money to pay rent? Who knows. I always say if they refund then they need it more than I do anyway.

    But lets take it a step further. If they refund it means 99% of the time that they aren't going to take action on the information they refunded from me to begin with. So really who lost out? If you think the serial refunders or even the crooks who go post your WSOs for others for free (or even the ones who download the WSOs from shady forums) will ever ever take action... or somehow saturate your information... you are sorely mistaken. Only real exception is if your guide was for a black hat method or a quick white hat method. If its black hat.. then you deserve it... if its some other simple 1-2 page wso method.. then chances are someone else thought of it too and it'd be out to the general public soon anyway...

    Seriously. The only people you have to worry about spreading your content or using it to the point of making it not as useful are the people who buy and don't seek a refund and actively use your product. Are you about to ban those people too? lol


    But yes I agree... someone refunding 11 products needs to be banned... but NOT because you should be afraid of them using that information, but because its disruptive and abusive of the process.

    Posted from Warriorforum.com App for Android
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      Its always surprised me how worked up people get about refunds. You never know the reason they are refunding. Maybe they overspent accidently that month and need the money to pay rent? Who knows. I always say if they refund then they need it less than I do anyway.
      I have no problems with genuine requests for refunds and no one who includes a refund policy should.

      My issue is with people whose refund is not based on the quality of the product or the information inside of it, but for reasons like you mentioned above -- they need some money for rent or other things.

      That is NOT a reason to ask for a refund. The attitude towards refunds in the IM niche is far too laxed and people need to be more accountable for their purchasing decisions.

      By letting people 'get away' with ridiculous refund requests you are only adding to the problem that exists. The more times they get away with it the more often they will do it and the further this ridiculously laxed attitude will spread.

      Your refund rate is something both your affiliates AND payment processors use to determine the quality of your product. So yes, I do not like idiots who abuse my refund policy and ask for their money back when it has nothing to do with the actual product itself.

      I have had products go from a 0% refund rate to a 1% refund rate for no other reason than someone who purchased my product and wants their money back because they did not read all the information on the sales page or they purchased the wrong product. That's not my problem, that's their problem... and I refuse to be liable for other people's incompetence.

      As for Black Hat sites, we all know they say your income will be the average of the 5 people you hang around the most. All of these idiots are on Black Hat sites for a reason.. because they can't afford to spend $7 on a plugin or piece of software. They who sit there downloading products for free and never EVER make a dime off of it. So good luck to them.

      You could give them the keys to a treasure chest but they still wouldn't have the brains between them to open the darn thing. They like to think they are cunning and clever but they are actually the scum of the IM industry and the very same guys who will still be on the BH forums in 5 years time still trying to download cheap products for free... because they can't afford the $7. Lame.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    I have only ever asked for 2 refunds. In both cases they were WP plugins that just did not work.

    My feeling is that if you buy an information product that is supposed to teach you something, and you read it, but not implemented (because you think you know it all already) then you should not be asking for a refund.

    But then again, the serial refunders will take absolutely no notice of this thread :p

    Di
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  • Profile picture of the author louie6925
    Ok, I feel I need to explain myself as many here are not getting my point! Yes I asked for 11 refunds in one month, and I had every right to do so. I can say with all honesty I am no serial refunder, in fact those 11 make up around 90% of all wso's I've ever refunded, and I have a hard drive full of poor quality wso's I have never refunded. The reason being is because as I said above if something is poor I will write a poor review to my subscribers and tell them about it! therefore its part of my business and therefore It would be wrong to refund.

    For the poster that mentioned my website! really? you think thats my review site? the site in my sig is actually designed to help people stop buying rubbish and shows the sort of wso's I think are value! its not meant as a reveiw site! My reveiwing part of my business is strictly for my lists of subscribers where they recieve a very detailed review of my results good or bad.

    As for the paypal comment, I run a very busy offline business using paypal and have for a long time, and getting banned from paypal is so far off the mark! You obviously fear paypal for some reason, but I stick well within the TOS and personally communicate with them on a monthly basis due to the high activity on my account! It really isn't hard to keep on the right side of them if your open and communicate regularly.

    As for the 11 refunds, while I can see why some people are saying I should be banned, are you really that arrogant to not look into the facts! If a green grocer goes to several different wholesalers to buy boxes of apples, gets back and finds that 11 of those boxes of apples were rotten and could not provide them to his customers then he would be well withinb his right to return to the wholesalers who sold them and demand a refund, for the reason the apples were completely useless to him or his customers!...........and if you think he would be wrong in doing so and that it would be unfair on the wholesaler, then I would have to question your ethics along with business sense.

    Effectively thats what I had was eleven boxes of rotten apples, I cannot describe how bad these products are, 2 were illegal for a start and did get reported, 1 was encouraging its buyers to spam (which I highly disagree with), and another as I was reading seemed familiar, and after checking my hard drive found that 70% of its content was word for word the same as a product already had! this was also reported. The rest were teaching people to do things that would not work and would completely waste the buyers time and money! sorry if you think its wrong of me but if you think you should'nt be asking for refunds on wso's like that then I'm afraid that is everything that is wrong with the wso forum, and as long as you have that attitude all you are doing is giving the green light to scammers to peddle their stuff on here, and is the reason the wso forum is getting such a bad name for itself.

    Bottom line is as consumers we all have the right to ask for refunds, and if it means that a scammer is getting his refund rate increased, then good! im glad and I hope it discourages people to buy, and to answer one of the above posts, when I ask for a refund of course I post it in the thread, I'd be doing fellow warriors a dis-service if I did'nt.

    If you want to ban me for asking you for a refund, then I don't have a problem with that, because if I have asked for a refund its because your product was complete tripe, and simply I would NOT buy from you again anyway, so banning would have no effect on me whatsover.

    If you look at my second post however, I 100% agree with the OP that people who are asking for refunds just to get their money back at the end of the month is completely wrong and these people should be dealt with severely, no doubt about that, but please understand that I am not going to sit back and be scammed by a dodgy wso seller without asking for a refund and neither should any of you!
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

      Bottom line is as consumers we all have the right to ask for refunds, and if it means that a scammer is getting his refund rate increased, then good! im glad and I hope it discourages people to buy, and to answer one of the above posts, when I ask for a refund of course I post it in the thread, I'd be doing fellow warriors a dis-service if I did'nt.

      Bottom line is that my paypal comments were not directed at you, as you are not using your purchases as your personal private savings account.

      You are talking about your right to ask for a refund, which I am not disputing.

      But, when an honest vendor is getting 11 refund requests from the same person in just a few days, that is not a buyer outing a scammer, but a buyer acting like a scammer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

      If a green grocer goes to several different wholesalers to buy boxes of apples, gets back and finds that 11 of those boxes of apples were rotten and could not provide them to his customers then he would be well withinb his right to return to the wholesalers who sold them and demand a refund, for the reason the apples were completely useless to him or his customers!
      Actually, in that situation the fault would lie with the green grocer, as it is their responsibility to check the quality of the apples before they purchase them. Once they are accepted off of the truck or walked out the door the wholesaler is not responsible for it. A little insider tip on the food industry for you .

      With that in mind, I'm going to turn the analogy around on you here. It is the buyers responsibility to read ad copy with a clear mind instead of starry eyes. If they don't "check the apples" (not buy into hype, verify claims made), then they're foolish. Once they click that buy button, they walked out of the door with the product. It's on them.

      Should sellers be responsible? Yes, but not at the expense of letting crappy buyers off the hook. The only reason these crap products keep getting made is because idiots will buy them.

      As this whole situation relates to your own business, it is an indictment on your ability to review products at a useful level, regardless of the morality of 11 refunds. If you are that bad at reading copy that you were fooled 11 times within a month, how in the world are you qualified to alert other consumers on which products are worthy?

      You still don't know yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        With that in mind, I'm going to turn the analogy around on you here. It is the buyers responsibility to read ad copy with a clear mind instead of starry eyes. If they don't "check the apples" (not buy into hype, verify claims made), then they're foolish. Once they click that buy button, they walked out of the door with the product. It's on them.

        Should sellers be responsible? Yes, but not at the expense of letting crappy buyers off the hook. The only reason these crap products keep getting made is because idiots will buy them.

        As this whole situation relates to your own business, it is an indictment on your ability to review products at a useful level, regardless of the morality of 11 refunds. If you are that bad at reading copy that you were fooled 11 times within a month, how in the world are you qualified to alert other consumers on which products are worthy?

        You still don't know yourself.
        Well said Joe.

        If you are silly enough not to check the apples before buying them then that makes you just as much at fault. There's far too much hand holding expected from people nowadays. 11 bad buying decisions in one month says something to me... and not just about the quality of the products being bought.
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          Well said Joe.

          If you are silly enough not to check the apples before buying them then that makes you the silly one. There's far too much hand holding expected from people nowadays. 11 bad buying decisions in one month says something to me... and not just about the quality of the products being bought.
          I think you are right, but I also think it's in everyone's best interests if he reports them and gives them all bad reviews.

          I guess it's individual choice whether we'd rather let someone keep our money when they have copied 70% of another product or promoted spam.

          I've not seen much WSO's that say they promote spam in their sales post.

          I can see this going on forever unless you both accept you are equally right, lol.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            I can see this going on forever unless you both accept you are equally right, lol.
            They both have points, but I wouldn't say that all things are equal, and I certainly wouldn't call the other poster "right". He's running an unsustainable business model that he has proven in this thread he is unqualified for. His entire point of view on the morals/ethics of this matter seem to hinge on the fact that he thinks he can do a subjective task in an objective manner. We know he can't figure out bad, what's to say he can figure out good?

            I won't even get started on how the whole "I shall be the one to patrol the WSO forum and protect newbies" thing is a hack (anyone remember this guy?)
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

              They both have points, but I wouldn't say that all things are equal, and I certainly wouldn't call the other poster "right". He's running an unsustainable business model that he has proven in this thread he is unqualified for. His entire point of you on the morals/ethics of this matter seem to hinge on the fact that he thinks he can do a subjective task in an objective manner. We know he can't figure out bad, what's to say he can figure out good?

              I won't even get started on how the whole "I shall be the one to patrol the WSO forum and protect newbies" thing is a hack (anyone remember this guy?)
              Joe, the human matchstick. Keeps things burning LOL

              Yeah, I agree with you. I don't really want to get into a debate about the business model.

              I'm just saying I think the crap needs to be cleared out the forum and let the decent sellers get back to what they do best.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by fin View Post

                I'm just saying I think the crap needs to be cleared out the forum and let the decent sellers get back to what they do best.
                That I can wholeheartedly agree on . It just needs to be cleared out by people who know what quality is, and that is a standard that the masses may never come into agreement on. I think that's why (as someone lamented earlier if I recall) the forum only does so much when cleaning out that section. They can take care of the obvious scams and crap; but everything else? It comes back to trying to make an objective decision on an objective matter, and that seems to be a bear that forum management is not going to poke with their ban stick. I can't say I blame them at all.
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                • Profile picture of the author fin
                  Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                  That I can wholeheartedly agree on . It just needs to be cleared out by people who know what quality is, and that is a standard that the masses may never come into agreement on. I think that's why (as someone lamented earlier if I recall) the forum only does so much when cleaning out that section. They can take care of the obvious scams and crap; but everything else? It comes back to trying to make an objective decision on an objective matter, and that seems to be a bear that forum management is not going to poke with their ban stick. I can't say I blame them at all.
                  In Scotland, if you want to teach impressionable minds you need a 4 year education. Maybe people could apply to be WSO sellers.

                  But then let's not be stupid. The WSO section is probably where Allen makes the majority of his money. He is a businessman, and from what I hear a particularly good one.

                  I don't think there is much hope for the WSO section unless Allen does a Bill Gates, decides he has enough money and wants to start a charitable foundation for IM'ers and kicks all the crap out.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by fin View Post

                    In Scotland, if you want to teach impressionable minds you need a 4 year education. Maybe people could apply to be WSO sellers.
                    In a perfect world...

                    Originally Posted by fin View Post

                    But then let's not be stupid. The WSO section is probably where Allen makes the majority of his money. He is a businessman, and from what I hear a particularly good one.

                    I don't think there is much hope for the WSO section unless Allen does a Bill Gates, decides he has enough money and wants to start a charitable foundation for IM'ers and kicks all the crap out.
                    A smarter buyer base would be the best option. I agree that Allen has no reason to change things up, and I personally don't think the section is that bad that he needs to. Crap gets put out all around the world that is a lot worse than what is going on in one forum's marketplace. There's only so much you can do to the sellers, and they tend to find ways around restrictions and punishments.

                    The brunt of the responsibility falls on the buyers, whether they like it or not. They need to put their big boy/girl pants on, and learn how to identify the s***.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveFinch
    I have bought quite a few wso's myself. Sometimes because they looked new and I wanted to see what it was all about, and sometimes because, I probably already knew what it was about, but I might see something fresh in it.

    I've never had to ask for a refund up to now. This I put down to reading the sales page or ad properly, and checking what others have to say about it, here or elsewhere.

    Having said that, surely you must know that people new to this game, may not think to check a product out. They may not think they even have to, and blindly believe all the sales patter. Because let's face it. There's plenty of exagerated total crap on some of these wso ads.

    By the way, I sell products I've created, and I simply accept that refunds are part of the game. I don't get that many, but then I don't fill the sales pages with over the top claims and screenshots.

    But....to those that are buying anything online, knowing they intend to refund as soon as possible, it's theft, and they need to be stopped from doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author louie6925
    TPW I agree with you wholeheartedly, I was never disputing your original post, and as SteveFinch has just stated what you are talking about is theft and any serial refunders should be dealt with.

    Steve makes some valid points, alot is to blame for the sales copy and the sales threads making obsurd claims, one of the mentioned refunds I asked for was from a seller who's copy was quite good but a little vague, in the thread I asked outright if the wso was about using twitter and explained that I don't like such products and twitter really does'nt interest me at all! the seller replied stating that he cannot reveal what the content was but to purchase and I won't be disappointed! needless to say the product was twitter and a very poor one at that! as it turned out the seller was being very secretive as he knew if he had told me it was twitter I would'nt of purchased, therefore in my book thats someone who's desperate to make a sale and not listening to potential customers! if he had of answered straight I would'nt of bought and he would'nt of had a another refund pushing up his refund rate.

    As Steve says alot is down to the sales copy, but yes I can see how serial refunders who refund at the end of the month is wrong on all levels, all I was doing was trying to state that some refund requests are genuine. For those that are not, don't just ban them, you should make sure you also report them and help put a stop to this happening.

    I never meant to turn your thread into a dispute, as first stated I 100% agree with your post, I just get angry when people come on here and get all moral about my post without finding out the true facts first! its offensive and very blinkered to form opinions like that!

    To clarify, I do feel sorry for vendors that such cheek is happening from buyers, and like you would always actively do what I can to stop such theft!
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

      Steve makes some valid points, alot is to blame for the sales copy and the sales threads making obsurd claims, one of the mentioned refunds I asked for was from a seller who's copy was quite good but a little vague, in the thread I asked outright if the wso was about using twitter and explained that I don't like such products and twitter really does'nt interest me at all! the seller replied stating that he cannot reveal what the content was but to purchase and I won't be disappointed! needless to say the product was twitter and a very poor one at that! as it turned out the seller was being very secretive as he knew if he had told me it was twitter I would'nt of purchased, therefore in my book thats someone who's desperate to make a sale and not listening to potential customers! if he had of answered straight I would'nt of bought and he would'nt of had a another refund pushing up his refund rate.
      There does need to be some accountability for your (proverbial you) purchasing decisions.

      If you are purchasing a product where you actually need to ask the seller (after reading the sales copy) what the product is about BEFORE purchasing then that says quite a lot about the sales copy and the product. I'm not sure why you would then go ahead and purchase? Even after the seller gave you a very vague reply to your pre-sale question you still went ahead and purchased?! I wouldn't.

      Sorry, but for you to need 11 refunds in the one month I do think YOU also need to take a look at your buying habits and the type of products you are buying. I have purchased plenty of WSO's on this forum over the last few years and I can honestly say I have only ever had a problem with one or two of them. That's because I don't buy products with stupidly blind sales copy or wild income claims. Do your homework before purchasing and you will find yourself having to ask for very few refunds.

      Maybe I am alone on this... maybe not?!
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      • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        There does need to be some accountability for your (proverbial you) purchasing decisions.

        If you are purchasing a product where you actually need to ask the seller (after reading the sales copy) what the product is about BEFORE purchasing then that says quite a lot about the sales copy and the product. I'm not sure why you would then go ahead and purchase? Even after the seller gave you a very vague reply to your pre-sale question you still went ahead and purchased?! I wouldn't.

        Sorry, but for you to need 11 refunds in the one month I do think YOU also need to take a look at your buying habits and the type of products you are buying. I have purchased plenty of WSO's on this forum over the last few years and I can honestly say I have only ever had a problem with one or two of them. That's because I don't buy products with stupidly blind sales copy or wild income claims. Do your homework before purchasing and you will find yourself having to ask for very few refunds.

        Maybe I am alone on this... maybe not?!
        NOPE Your not Alone Will

        Gaz
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      • Profile picture of the author louie6925
        Thanks for your comments WillR, but it seems you haven't read the entire thread!
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      • Profile picture of the author louie6925
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        There does need to be some accountability for your (proverbial you) purchasing decisions.

        If you are purchasing a product where you actually need to ask the seller (after reading the sales copy) what the product is about BEFORE purchasing then that says quite a lot about the sales copy and the product. I'm not sure why you would then go ahead and purchase? Even after the seller gave you a very vague reply to your pre-sale question you still went ahead and purchased?! I wouldn't.

        Sorry, but for you to need 11 refunds in the one month I do think YOU also need to take a look at your buying habits and the type of products you are buying. I have purchased plenty of WSO's on this forum over the last few years and I can honestly say I have only ever had a problem with one or two of them. That's because I don't buy products with stupidly blind sales copy or wild income claims. Do your homework before purchasing and you will find yourself having to ask for very few refunds.

        Maybe I am alone on this... maybe not?!

        Maybe i'm alone on this but it seems you have decided not to read all my posts! Why do I need to take a look at my buying habits? I explained in an earlier post that this was a freak month of some seriously bad wso's!

        Buying is part of my business model, and when I buy a wso, I look for products with a not so good sales copy! why?.......because if I only purchased the well written ones by well known warriors then my subscribers would just get the same promotion from me as they would of every other reviewers emails! Business is all about standing out from the crowd, and I've been running my own businesses for over 16 years! Its simple you follow the crowd and you will get lost in that crowd!

        My buying methods is to uncover gems that no one else is bothering with, and some of my favourite wso's of all time have come from poorly written sales copy! its a risk I take to provide real value to my subscribers, and my sales reflect this! it works for me well, however it comes with the risk of buying alot rubbish, which I do, and when I do they get a bad review on their sales thread and my subscribers also recieve the review and generally steer well clear. I have tons of really bad wso's on my hard drive which I have never had refunded and wouldn't because thats the nature of my business! I rarely ask for refunds and the ones which have been mentioned in this thread were not just bad they, were asking their buyers to operate illegally or go against TOS's of companies they were aimed at, or as I stated were blatantly stolen from someone elses product word for word! these I WILL ask for a refund as well as report these people, not because I care about the money, but because its a question of ethics and morals, and if you are not doing the same then maybe you should look at your business values instead of pulling mine apart!!!!

        Like I said, It was a real bad month and those 11 probably make up nearly all of the refunds I have ever asked for! I'm happy to accept my buying may be different from yours but thats because I'm not willing to be a sheep in this industry, and like I said I do very well from it, therefore I don't understand your comment that I need to look at my buying methods, because I really don't and if you think I'm going lie down and get mugged of by unsavoury sellers trying to encourage me to operate illegally then you are wrong, I will continue to ask for a refund and so should every other warrior with morals.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

          Maybe i'm alone on this but it seems you have decided not to read all my posts! Why do I need to take a look at my buying habits? I explained in an earlier post that this was a freak month of some seriously bad wso's!
          No, that's not exactly what you said. You admit that you buy bad WSO's all the time. This was just the first month that you started refunding them. Perhaps the quality of the WSO's didn't get any worse after all. Perhaps, you just got tired of buying all these WSO's praying for a diamond in the rough. Perhaps you felt that you shouldn't have to be punished for trying to "help" newbies by trying all these WSO's. Perhaps you felt it was time you started only paying for what you wanted to pay for.

          See how things go both ways, and how there is an entirely plausible other side to the story? What you've described in this thread has not given anyone a reason to blindly decided what you did was warranted, and it's foolish to believe that they would just because you say so.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Originally Posted by tpw View Post

    If you cannot afford to invest in your future, by buying access to the information you need to grow your business, then [B]don't buy those products that you cannot afford to buy.
    Bill, surely if they were only investing in information to grow a business then they wouldn't be in a position to even have 4 or 15 products to refund. Spend within your means and always spend wisely.
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Damn Bill! I thought I changed my PayPal information enough times you stopped catching on!

    That said, I rarely ask for refunds these days. I mean half of the products in the WSO section are like $7 bucks, and sometimes you can get something for like $.25 (if your up at all hours of the day that is!) Yes I did buy a crappy product, but it also entitles me to a REVIEW... of your product... in a public forum... and, um, ouch!

    I will, however, ask for a refund if what is stated in your sales copy is absolutely, positively, NOT what was offered in the product and/or service. That kind of pisses me off! LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Also think that the only one really losing out is the person trying to make money online and thinks that a simple purchase of a $7 - $12 report or "system" can do this for them.

    Now I am not saying every product doesn't work but they all, in my experience, require MASSIVE action.

    Simply looking for a golden ticket will not work.

    Unless you are VERY lucky and find one in a Wonka bar and then it is party time!

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  • I havent sold any product on the WSO section yet but i now it is pathetic when people buys your product and return it for no good reason.It is one of the things in business you just have to deal with.
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  • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
    Hello! :-) Do any of the WSO affiliate platforms have a built-in mechanism
    for automatically banning a customer after a vendor-specified number of
    refunds? If not, wouldn't that be the preferred approach for vendors who
    don't want to focus their time (or the time of their virtual help) tallying refund
    rates for each customer?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
    In the short amount of time I've jumped into internet marketing, I have requested quite a few refunds.

    It's shady tactics put on by some products where the pre-sales intro is better than the product I am paying for. If some of the people offering these products put as much effort into their item as they do into their pre-sale persuasion, refunds would be less.

    It's not the fault of the consumer for the high amount of refunds requested. Its the fault of the screening process that allows them to sell their product in the first place.


    There is a problem with agents and/or broker, such as WSO's, clickbank, stock brokers, etc.. they make money regardless of the success or failure it provides the consumer .
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  • Profile picture of the author gwedge
    Please don't forget that if you do your job right you should increase your sales through offering a refund policy by more than the actual amount of refunds you end up giving.
    If you doubt that try offering a WSO with no refund guarantee at all.
    See how that hurts!

    Even if you did discover that its not more than worth it. You will eventually end up with some unhappy soul who does far more harm by bad mouthing your product than any refund would cost. So why not just keep everyone happy. Its far better to keep em happy, and less aggro.


    George
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by gwedge View Post

      Please don't forget that if you do your job right you should increase your sales through offering a refund policy by more than the actual amount of refunds you end up giving.
      If you doubt that try offering a WSO with no refund guarantee at all.
      See how that hurts!

      Even if you did discover that its not more than worth it. You will eventually end up with some unhappy soul who does far more harm by bad mouthing your product than any refund would cost. So why not just keep everyone happy. Its far better to keep em happy, and less aggro.


      George

      Apples and oranges.

      You are talking about basic refund principles.

      We are talking about people who abuse refund policies to rip off vendors and damage a vendor's reputation with the payment processor.
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  • Profile picture of the author louie6925
    Totally missing my point again Joe, bottom line is if I buy a wso and it is either illegal, unethical or telling me to spam people then I will ask for a refund! Whether that one in every 6 month's or ten in a week, it is wrong and I will expect to be refunded! It really is as simple as that! I don't get what's so confusing or how there is two sides! I'm sure more ethical people would also take offence at this type of wso! Correct me if I'm wrong, but as stated I have been running businesses for a long time, if you don't have morals your business will suffer!
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but as stated I have been running businesses for a long time, if you don't have morals your business will suffer!
      You've been running your businesses for a long time (16 years I believe you said in an earlier post) and yet you still can't figure out deceptive copy that is peddling unethical/illegal practices? I've been alive for 22 years now, doesn't mean I know much about survival.

      Perhaps the point is being missed because you simply aren't making one? And if you are you aren't backing it up?
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      • Profile picture of the author louie6925
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        You've been running your businesses for a long time (16 years I believe you said in an earlier post) and yet you still can't figure out deceptive copy that is peddling unethical/illegal practices? I've been alive for 22 years now, doesn't mean I know much about survival.

        Perhaps the point is being missed because you simply aren't making one? And if you are you aren't backing it up?

        I give up!! obviously you only read only the bits you want to read, if you had read properly you'd know why I buy from poor copy! deceptive, poorly written and inaccurate wso's I don't ask for refunds, as I stated that is my risk for finding good wso's, some have fantastic copy and brilliant sales letters but still turn out to be inciting illegal activity! you obviously expect me to have special powers that can see within a product before buying! sorry! but I'm only human and will fall for the same things as you would and everyone else, as you said I don't really have a point which reflects the fact you don't really have an arguement!, like I said, all I did was posted my reasons for asking for the refunds I did, which I would do again if I had purchased illegal inciting products, that will not change! end of!

        I'm bored of having to keep repeating myself and apologise to tpw that his original post has gone so off topic, So to get back on topic, yes I fully agree with tpw, people who abuse the refund system are low lives I would'nt want to do any business with, and for the benefit of everyone else reading this thread I'm talking about not serial refunders exactly but as the OP said, people who think its acceptable to buy a product, not really like its contents and recycle their money to do the same again! this IS theft and I would expect anyone caught doing this to be banned from purchasing wso's full stop in the interest of fairness to the vendors
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

          I give up!! obviously you only read only the bits you want to read, if you had read properly you'd know why I buy from poor copy! deceptive, poorly written and inaccurate wso's I don't ask for refunds, as I stated that is my risk for finding good wso's

          LOL

          If you ever ask for refunds, there is no risk.

          No need to apologize to me for taking the thread off track. It happens.

          I suspect that people did read all of your comments... They simply reached different conclusions than you did, based on the same information.
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

          I give up!! obviously you only read only the bits you want to read
          We have read everything you are saying. We just don't seem to be coming to the same conclusion you are.

          Great, you look for WSO's with crap sales copy, that's part of your business model. But if that means you need to ask for 11 refunds in the one month then maybe you need to rethink your business model. I understand you say you were just unlucky and went through a little bad spot but seriously, I would find it VERY hard to go out and give my money to 11 products that were worthy of a refund... in the one month. I would think you would get a lot better at picking up on this kind of thing. I sure have... it's not hard when you look at certain tell-tale signs before buying.

          You went on to tell us about a product you were suspicious about. A product where the sales copy was so blind you needed to ask the vendor a question as to what the product was or was not about. At which stage the vendor replied with yet another open ended and vague response. Then, after all of that, you went ahead and still purchased the product. I'm sorry, that is just silly purchasing on your part and I can't feel sorry for someone who doesn't try to help themselves. These people who create poor quality products only keep doing so because people like yourself, even given all the tell-tail warning signs, still go ahead and purchase their products.

          Originally Posted by louie6925 View Post

          and apologise to tpw that his original post has gone so off topic, So to get back on topic,
          To be perfectly honest with you, the thread NEVER got off topic. This thread is about serial refunders. The word 'refund' meaning to get your money back. The word 'serial' meaning to repeat the same action over and over. You refunded 11 products in one month. Whether you like it or not that pretty much makes you a serial refunder for that month.

          Just saying...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Kovats
    I wonder if these chronic refunders walk back into Chapters after reading a book and say, "meh...I really didn't like it" or, "it rally didn't apply to me". I understand that selling online has a certain trust barrier to overcome, but why are the rules so different for the online world?
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by theseoguys View Post

      I wonder if these chronic refunders walk back into Chapters after reading a book and say, "meh...I really didn't like it" or, "it rally didn't apply to me". I understand that selling online has a certain trust barrier to overcome, but why are the rules so different for the online world?

      I hear stories about people buying clothes for special occasions, then taking the clothing back to the store the next day, on the premise that the clothing did not fit.

      I hear stories about people buying big screen tv's for the super bowl party and returning it to the store the following day for a refund.

      Unfortunately, offline gets hit as hard as online, and with offline, stores get stuck selling used equipment as new.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    If a wso seller has says "100% guaranteed, if you're not happy for any reason we will refund your money". Then the wso seller has no right to complain about excessive or serial refunders. The wso seller just put up huge blinking neon sign attracting this type of buyer!

    If a wso seller says "no refunds" and then someone tries to get one, it's on the buyer now, NOT the wso seller.

    So the solution is simple, wso sellers should NOT offer refunds if they're getting upset with people taking advantage of them for doing so.

    You can only control yourself and what you do, you cannot force your morals onto others and you should never complain if you offer a refund on your product and someone takes advantage of that.

    I know serial refunders exist, there's no disputing that. BUT keep them at bay by being up front and saying NO REFUNDS. I think product creators who do that believe more in their product then the guys who offer refunds.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

      You can only control yourself and what you do, you cannot force your morals onto others and you should never complain if you offer a refund on your product and someone takes advantage of that.
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      don't buy those products that you cannot afford to buy.

      This is not about morals. It is about personal responsibility.
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      • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
        Right but who is responsible?

        If a drug addict didn't have any dealers to buy from, would they be FORCED to quit buying drugs? If a drug supplier didn't have any dealers to distribute his product, would he continue to make it? No, the drugs wouldn't be made, so the suppliers would go do something else, the dealers would do something else and the addicts would go find something else to get addicted to.

        There's a food chain here and I think the wso seller is responsible IF they offer refunds. They're inviting predators and serial refunders to force them to follow through on their promises.

        If sellers offer refunds then they have no right to complain when someone asks for one.

        The refund policy is abused by sellers too. They use it as a tool to get more sales. When someone believes that they really can get a refund with "no questions asked" why wouldn't they, (personal responsibility and morals on their part aside), if they're already a serial refunder.

        I think serial refunders are scum personally, but I think sellers who complain about them when the seller used the refund offer as a way to get more sales is just as much at fault if not more.

        The solution, either don't offer a refund at all OR have a refund policy that forces the buyer to prove he took action first. (That would be a whole new can of worms, but it's an idea).

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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    I believe the OP's message is clear:
    Serial refunders will do damage to the vendors payment processors.
    And that's a fact, especially with PayPal, they consider it as a suspicious activity, and a high risk.
    How many refunds to get an alert from paypal? or what percentage? that I don't know.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sara Nightingale
    This sort of serial refunding is unfortunate. Hopefully this post does bring some awareness to the issue and defers others from committing serial refunds in the future. In the long run I don't think serial refunding is as harmful to any one vendor as to bring down their relationship with paypal...most serial refunders like to mix it up and strike on multiple vendors so as to not be noticed...hopefully the solution is within the paypal system! Maybe they should start banning the people who do this type of refunding. They can certainly see a more clear picture of who these people are than any one vendor.

    Unconditional refunds are just that. I have seen more and more vendors moving towards a "conditional guarantee" this at least requires an explanation of people before they get a refund. This alone could deter the infamous "serial refunder"
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    Sara Nightingale
    Customer Service Edge LLC

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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Sara Nightingale View Post

      This sort of serial refunding is unfortunate. Hopefully this post does bring some awareness to the issue and defers others from committing serial refunds in the future.
      Eh, the serial refunders won't see it. It will open the eyes of a few more vendors though so they can recognize what's happening and take the appropriate actions against the offender.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sara Nightingale
        You're probably right Joe its likely that not a single offender takes a look here...but one can hope...
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        Sara Nightingale
        Customer Service Edge LLC

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  • Profile picture of the author spirtx
    I had a issue with a guy, who simply ruined my WSO thread by buying my WSO and asking for a refund 5 minutes later, because the method I was teaching 'was not his game'. The next day saw my WSO shared all over the internet by the same guy(it was really easy to track him-was using similar nickname). And that guy supposed to be 'reputable' member with 500+ posts. I'm sure most of you experienced the same
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  • Profile picture of the author preets
    I am not a seriel purchaser of WSO , but I checked all the wso on daily basis. I only buy when I really see something interesting or workable and never refunded till date.
    In my opinion it is my responsibility to verify and understand the product before pressing the buy button.
    If you are refunding several products in a month , it is your fault or lack of intelligence. So be carefull when you buy next time.

    Cheers
    Amar
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Jamie,
      I don't think there is much hope for the WSO section unless Allen does a Bill Gates, decides he has enough money and wants to start a charitable foundation for IM'ers and kicks all the crap out.
      You're the third or fourth person I've seen say this in the past week. Here's the problem:

      Who reviews the products and decides what is and is not "crap?"

      Think carefully about the range of topics covered, the hours watching video and reading books, the expertise required to judge accurately, and the rest of the mechanics of the process before answering...


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Jamie,You're the third or fourth person I've seen say this in the past week. Here's the problem:

        Who reviews the products and decides what is and is not "crap?"

        Think carefully about the range of topics covered, the hours watching video and reading books, the expertise required to judge accurately, and the rest of the mechanics of the process before answering...


        Paul
        Yeah, I know. The monster is too out of control to ever be tamed.

        I tend not to think of it as the forum anyway. More like a market renting a field from the forum.
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