4-5 Refunds out of Every 10 Sales - Continue Promoting or Drop Product?

41 replies
Hello to all.

This is one of my main products that I've been promoting as an affiliate for almost 2 years. It's in the software niche pertaining to electronics & networking.

However, almost like clockwork, I end up getting 4-5 refunds out of every 10 sales for this product. There has also been the odd chargeback.

Pros of the product:
- It's a consistent seller with most of the sales coming from Asia and Australia.
- The price point is low (below $10) and as of now, I make around $300 a month with this product alone, after refunds.

Cons of the product:
- Does not sell well in the US and European markets (most refunds are from here).
- With a 40% average refund rate, retaining sales becomes a frustrating task.

I know that some of the statistics may seem odd and I've been trying to figure out the problem areas. What seems to me here is that:

(a) The low price point is causing people to buy on an impulse and then ask for a refund within a couple days (not sure if it's a case of failed expectations or "bad buyers").

--or--

(b) The product itself is low quality, and even though I'm able to retain 50-60% of the sales and most of my traffic is from free sources, it seems like too much effort and stress for peanuts.

I wonder if anyone here can cast some light on this predicament. I have a 50% chance of success with this product but I hate seeing so many refunds.

Continue promoting or drop the product?

Thanks for your time.
#continue #drop #product #promoting #refunds #sales
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    The problem I notice already: you don't seem to know if the product is any good or not. If the only pros you can list of the product are it's low price point and that the eastern hemisphere seems to like it, that's a problem. Further, when you don't know if the quality of the product is a factor, that's a serious red flag. Are you blindly promoting products? That's how refund rates like that happen.

    Another thing I'm thinking of is that your market is well aware of Clickbank's refund policy, and take advantage of it liberally. Only you know that though, I have no idea who you target.
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  • Profile picture of the author AABL
    Yeah if that was me I'd be a little worried!

    You've kind of answered your own question

    "The product itself is low quality, and even though I'm able to retain 50-60% of the sales and most of my traffic is from free sources, it seems like too much effort and stress for peanuts."

    Is there no way you could like upgrade/improve it?

    How much exactly are you charging?
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  • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
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    • Originally Posted by ClickMonkey View Post

      You're an affiliate. Banking approximately $300 per month after refunds. You dislike seeing so many refunds. You're contemplating dropping the product because you dislike seeing so many refunds, despite banking $300 per month after refunds. Is that a fair summary of what you're dealing with?
      Yes, in summary, it's the refunds (along with the odd chargeback) that's causing the problem.

      The thing is, I know that the product has long-term demand (at least for the next 5 years) which is why I've stuck with the product for the past 2 years despite the ups-and-downs.
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      • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
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        • Originally Posted by ClickMonkey View Post

          How much time (generally speaking) gets allocated to generating the affiliate sales you're generating that produce the net profit of $300 per month? This could be time you personally spend doing stuff to generate the sales, or time spent by any virtual help you might have. This is a crucial question -- and the answer to this question will reveal the ultimate answer to your dilemma.
          Right now, about 40% of my traffic and conversions for this product are on autopilot (the pages, keywords and SEO is already in place).

          The remaining 60% is a work-in-progress thing (seeding out bad keywords & non-converting countries, optimizing keywords with potential) --- This part takes about 2 hours a day.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Margaret Arumugam View Post

            Right now, about 40% of my traffic and conversions for this product are on autopilot (the pages, keywords and SEO is already in place).

            The remaining 60% is a work-in-progress thing (seeding out bad keywords & non-converting countries, optimizing keywords with potential) --- This part takes about 2 hours a day.

            2 hours a day times 30 days = 60 hours month

            $300 earned, divided by 60 hours per month = $5 an hour earned.

            You would be better off getting a job.
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            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Abandon it, unless it's a high ticket product.

    For my own products, I have a return ratio of 1:10.

    And even that I'm a little uncomfortable with!

    Offer value, if you can't offer value, something's wrong.

    Just my $.02
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    • Profile picture of the author Eduard
      I know it feels good to be, overall, making money out of this and it's hard to drop a product that ends up making some money for you, but really: do you want to promote a product with that high a refund rate?

      It's obliviousness a pretty bad product or at least poorly targeted. I'd have problems sleeping at night promoting that kind of a product.
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    • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      Abandon it, unless it's a high ticket product.
      He said the product is under $10. Is that high ticket?
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I would drop it.

    Too many customers obviously not getting what they
    expected.

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
    Well, you could figure out what the 40% is refunding. Maybe they are really a poor match for the products.

    So then you will be laser in on your target audience, and in the process discover how you could make even more money.
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    Jean Paul a.k.a AdwordsMogul
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    As a vendor, if one of my affiliates was generating 40% to 50% refund rates, I would fire the affiliate.

    As an affiliate, I would terminate the relationship with any vendor whose products create 40% to 50% refund rates.

    As a vendor, I would be scared to death of losing access to payment processing services due to a high refund rate.

    Additionally, whichever side of the equation you are on, you are creating problems with your present and future customers by recommending a **** product.

    My highest refund rate on any single product was 8%. My average product has less than 1% refund rates. And overall, across my vendor and affiliate sales, my refund rate is much less than 1%.

    By continuing to promote a product with 40% to 50% refund rates, you are playing with fire, and as a result, you might get burned.
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Originally Posted by Margaret Arumugam View Post

    (b) The product itself is low quality...
    Bingo. Why'd you take it on in the first place? I'd dump it.
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  • Good to get a perspective on this. Sometimes we fall in love with a failing product and not see the forest for the trees.
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    • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by ClickMonkey View Post

        Don't make a final decision (despite the chants for you to dump the product) before you answer the question of how much time (if any) gets devoted to generating the $300 in net earnings per month.

        Don't make a final decision based on the value you are giving to your customers... Instead, make your decision based on your own selfish interests only!! :rolleyes:
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Don't make a final decision based on the value you are giving to your customers... Instead, make your decision based on your own selfish interests only!! :rolleyes:
          It's how I got super rich.
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        • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by ClickMonkey View Post

            But the buyers of this product are presumably making a decision based on their own selfish interests, aren't they? Some decide the product is not a suitable fit for their needs. So they request a refund. Some go the chargeback route -- for reasons that are unclear given that it appears the vendor is VERY generous insofar as dispensing refunds. That's the perfect world... people buy stuff, evaluate it, and decide if they want to keep it or not. No harm, no foul. No weirdness.

            40% to 50% refund rates.

            40% to 50% of your customers are unhappy.

            This is a recipe for a short-lived business, and the potential loss of payment processors.
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            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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            • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
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              • Profile picture of the author KenJ
                At the risk of going off topic...

                If the product is so bad couldn't you have a good version made and run it as your own product?

                KenJ
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                • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
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                  • Profile picture of the author KenJ
                    Apologies
                    Didn't spot that Ken and you had already said this.

                    KenJ
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              • Profile picture of the author tpw
                Originally Posted by ClickMonkey View Post

                You're not looking for a way for this affiliate to win! The only solutions you're offering are for the product to be dumped. My goal is for the affiliate to find a way to win! To be positive, to look at the glass as half full!

                Not to mention....
                "This is a recipe for a short-lived business"

                ...yet the affiliate has been promoting the product for nearly 2 years!

                Let's try and offer constructive solutions to the affiliate, and not just tell the affiliate to dump the product and earn $0.

                You are advising this affiliate to further damage his reputation by supporting a product that should not have his support.

                More than likely, this affiliate is not in a position to finance the development of a new software to replace the one he is currently promoting. Software development is generally an expensive and time-consuming process, and I know this from first hand experience.

                I am advising this affiliate to spend his time and effort to replace a $300 per month dog turd, by promoting products that don't have so much wrong with them that 40% to 50% of all customers hit the refund button.
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                Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
                Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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                • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
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                  • Profile picture of the author tpw
                    Originally Posted by ClickMonkey View Post

                    That's mean spirited wording, this part -- "replace a $300 per month dog turd" -- that represents good money for many hard working people. It's not cool to put down the money people make. It's awesome to always aspire for more, for sure, but it can also be discouraging for someone who has worked very hard to reach $300 a month in income to be told it's "dog turd" money.

                    Any product with a 40% to 50% refund rate IS a dog turd.

                    If this product was listed on ClickBank, it would soon be delisted in ClickBank, because even CB understands dog turds hurt their business' reputation and credibility.

                    It is not mean spirited to call a dog turd a dog turd.

                    And, I am not criticizing the way the affiliate earns his money. He knows that this is a problem product, or else he would not have asked the forum if he should stop promoting the product.

                    In the end, it is the affiliates' reputation and ability to generate repeat sales that is on the line. If the affiliate chooses to continue to put his reputation at risk supporting this product, that is his choice to make, not ours.

                    But, he did ask for advice, and my advice is to dump the product.
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                    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
                    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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                    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

                      Any product with a 40% to 50% refund rate IS a dog turd.
                      I don't think everyone knows this Bill. Some people really think that as long as less than half refund, the product is just dandy. Clickmonkey is a prime example. You can't fix 'em, just see the products they promote so you know what to ignore .
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Margaret,

    I am in complete agreement with the "dump it" recommendation. You are only hurting your reputation with your clients.

    Let me make a suggestion to you that may well keep the sales coming in for you. Since you know its a popular product, team up with a programmer and create a software that is better and more flexible than the one your promoting.

    When the affiliates that are promoting the on you are now may well have the same high rate of refund as you. Once they discover you have a better product a much lower refund rate, hopefully they will switch over to promote your product. Your affiliate sign up page will give you the opportunity to do a comparison and stress the reduction in refunds.

    Make sure you figure out what the reason is for the refunds from the U.S. and Europe, so your programmer can absolutely improve on that particular area.

    Think about it. You have a market, you have said its a long term product, and you have a specific step you can take to capture that market.

    Ken
    The Old Geezer
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by Ken Leatherman View Post

      Margaret,

      I am in complete agreement with the "dump it" recommendation. You are only hurting your reputation with your clients.

      Let me make a suggestion to you that may well keep the sales coming in for you. Since you know its a popular product, team up with a programmer and create a software that is better and more flexible than the one your promoting.

      When the affiliates that are promoting the on you are now may well have the same high rate of refund as you. Once they discover you have a better product a much lower refund rate, hopefully they will switch over to promote your product. Your affiliate sign up page will give you the opportunity to do a comparison and stress the reduction in refunds.

      Make sure you figure out what the reason is for the refunds from the U.S. and Europe, so your programmer can absolutely improve on that particular area.

      Think about it. You have a market, you have said its a long term product, and you have a specific step you can take to capture that market.

      Ken
      The Old Geezer

      ^^^ This. It's brilliant. End of story.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Promote it to the Asia and Australia market where it sells well w/out the refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketingdynasty
    I would drop the product for now and then try to reconstruct it possibly to bring the needed quality to the product. Did you do a test run of the product before you launched it? It is always good to see how well a product converts before you send it live. $300 a month - there should be some scalability there with your product that is not there. This product needs to go back to the drawing board, reconstruct it, and do some test runs for conversion stats.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wendy Maki
    Let's shift focus and empower Margaret here.

    First, she's got some "mad skills" here and the dialogue is sort of putting all the emphasis on the product.

    Margaret, you're making $300 AFTER refunds on a product that's less than $10. I don't know what the % commission is, but even if it's 100%, you are making a whole heck of a lot of referrals and CONVERSIONS in a single month!

    95% of affiliates never get even close to what you have accomplished!

    Obviously, you KNOW SOMETHING how to send traffic to a merchant and get people to buy.

    Try your mad skills on a different product.

    Look for an alternative product that serves the same market, but better, hopefully. Test it. Try out something different.

    Keep up the good work!
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  • Profile picture of the author williamstraus
    People are trusting your review and buying. It's not the $300 a month that is of value it's your ability to tap into buyers in a lucrative niche. Find a better product for them one that they know they will be happy with.

    Alternatively, if you're making $300 per month buy the product and figure out what's wrong with it. As an affiliate I was able to REDUCE my refund rate by pointing out the flaws and letting people buy knowing up front what was wrong.

    They buy product x thinking "Yeah, it's gonna do what I want but it there are these negatives".
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  • Profile picture of the author Herbowo
    Just continue it if you think it's worth of your time and work to do a refund thing
    and I suggest you drop it and start sell another product
    or another way to make money online, there's lot actually
    especially, if you have a start funds (from that software)
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  • Profile picture of the author mlord10
    I'm mostly in agreement with the crowd that is telling you to dump the product...However, I will say this:

    As an affiliate, of course you are trying to make sales...however, it is also your responsibility to know the product, including any shortcomings that it may have. You need to do your own homework, because you can't rely on the vendor to do all of the research for you.

    That being said, you should be able to find specific glitches/known issues with the product, and address those within your review/recommendation. If you manage expectations up front (even if it means giving the product a B+ rating as opposed to an A+ so to speak), then you could reduce your refund rates drastically.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    There is absolutely no question here.

    If a product you are selling or promoting is getting a 40% refund rate, you stop promoting it right away.

    Simple as that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    A 40% refund rate means it must be an absolute rubbish product... especially since it has a low price point.

    Products often do not get the refund rate they deserve. Most products should have higher refund rates as many simply purchase a product, do not go through the product and subsequently forget about it.

    The fact that 40% have actually bothered to refund a product under $10 means it must be rubbish.

    Here's an idea, purchase the product yourself (as you are making about $300 a month on it) and see for yourself whether it's good or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author williamk
    Banned
    Drop it. I think that getting 40-50% refund means your product sucks or they dont find useful information.
    So change that and you will be fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kostas Papadakis
    I think the question here is do you have the time and energy to make this product better by yourself? Or, maybe looking for something else ( another product) , while you continue promoting this one, so you do not loose this income? You already know the way of getting the customers, you just have to improve the result of the product you are promoting, so you have an even higher income.
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  • Hi Margaret. These are some options you can study:

    OPTION ONE: Drop the product and focus on promoting higher quality products that a lot of people need (test out the products first, of course, so you'll know if it actually provides buyers with the value they need - more value = better, for their time and money).
    PROJECTED RESULTS: Better utility of your time because of higher affiliate commissions per month.

    OPTION TWO: Study relevant details about the buyers who don't ask for refunds (50 to 60%, you said), i.e. Where they're based, where they've been to before arriving on your site and other channels where your affiliate link is found and so on. Reduce the resources you use to promote the product (say by 40 to 50% since you won't be targeting buyers who ask for refunds), such as time and advertising overheads (you mentioned most of your traffic comes from free sources, so some of your traffic I assume may be from paid sources). Hire someone whom you can pay say $150 per month to implement the things you've done to promote the product (say 2 to 3 hours of work per day, 5 days per week, 4 weeks per month). Use your time to promote other higher quality products that a lot of people need.
    PROJECTED RESULTS: $150 or higher commissions per month for you. Your time is spent promoting higher quality products that can potentially earn you more than $300 per month per product. If you branded your site that promotes the low quality product with your name, announce that it's under new management.

    OPTION THREE: Save the $150++ per month you earn from doing option two and some of your earnings from promoting higher quality products. Say in a few months, you'll have the money to hire a software programmer who can develop a better product that can offer better benefits from its wider set of integrated features than the low quality product.
    PROJECTED RESULTS: You still earn $150++ per month by doing option two, without associating your name with the product. And, you have someone who works on it for you each day. Plus, you earn higher commissions from the higher quality products you're promoting. And, when your custom software has been developed, tested and finalized, hire others to run your other marketing campaigns for those other higher quality products, and spend time promoting your own custom software...

    Now, you decide. It's up to you. We're just here to offer opinions, though experts are paid for their opinions and not for the facts they know, so study the opinions provided to you in this thread, and decide which are:

    • Expert opinions based on extensive relevant knowledge and expertise gained from years and years of relevant experience; or
    • Opinions based on extensive relevant knowledge without relevant experience; or
    • Assumptions based on nothing except a workable understanding of the fundamental structure of logical frameworks and fundamental methodologies of logical analysis.. lso:

    I'm sure you know many developing countries are in Asia and that many reports that can be substantiated with evidence show some of these countries are hot beds for piracy and IP theft. Perhaps some of those buyers who ask for refunds just want the full version of the product, so they can reverse engineer it to develop patches or cracks and post it in various sites with malicious code inserted (yes, there are companies that pay criminal organizations to develop malicious software that can steal info from an infected computer for their marketing objectives and other illegal purposes, and these criminal organizations pay "affiliates" fixed rates per computer infected with the malware, and they pay higher rates when infected computers have IPs based in North America and the EU), or they just want to see the full features of the product before they download pirated versions of the product, or even before they buy it from their local pirated software dealer...
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  • Profile picture of the author MarvyDery
    i think you must ask them why they are asking for refunds and do you best to improve on that area.
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  • ClickMonkey, Wendy Maki, Bill Platt, Ken Leatherman... Thank you all for your pragmatic, encouraging and plainspeak ideas.

    I understand that the product is a lemon but the market itself has good potential. It is also a very curious market as the product itself is in the English language but most of my good buyers (the ones who don't refund or chargeback) are from non-English speaking countries.

    To those who suggested developing my own software, yes, I did seriously consider that on several occasions but the ROI doesn't justify the time, effort or investment. It's the kind of niche where the product has to be priced low, which is why I stuck with it for 2 years trying to make it work as an affiliate instead of reinventing the wheel as a vendor.

    Everything considered, I agree that my efforts are better funneled elsewhere (for the moment) till I find a way to better monetize this niche.

    Overall, I respect all the ideas I've received here and I thank you all for your time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Margaret its great you came back in here and posted again.

    It will be interesting to see where you concentrate your new projects. Please keep us posted. Because as others have said you know how to promote a product and get results and your tactics may be the very thing others can do to make an income off the web.

    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Challendge
    no-brainer. drop it and focus your attention on a higher converting product.
    You are not actually "earning" $300/month from this product, you are in fact losing because of opportunity cost.
    So let's say that you focused your attention on a more successful and better converting product and make $500/month, this would mean that the opportunity cost of the time that you spend promoting the current product as opposed to the new one is $200/month.
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  • Profile picture of the author footbag_man
    I believe that blind promoting is your problem here..

    You could be telling the customer one thing and then when they get the product they dont get what they expected..

    Fergal
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  • Profile picture of the author lsargent
    What are you doing to presell the product? Sales pages from the vendor are always going to be hypey. I always try and presell it by giving realistic expections (always in a positive light), and reinforce the value of it from a price standpoint.
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