Hey list builders, why don't you stop spamming?

99 replies
I sign up to a lot of lists, sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.

99% of the time, I get inundated with crap.

What kind of crap?

A plethora of offers. "Check this offer out!"

And every single e-mail in their funnel is like this.

Why not provide a little more value? Why not build a relationship.

Its not bad to promote *GOOD* offers, I promote stuff too of course. But damn guys, be a little selective?

And give your list some breathing room and offer value in between offers. Something that they can actually use and make a little moola off of. Why not?

If you help someone make money without making them pay for ****, don't you think they'll be your BFF for life? They may then buy whatever you suggest afterwards.
#builders #hey #list #spamming #stop
  • Profile picture of the author StevenWatanabe
    Unfortunately that's just part of the game. Hopefully your subscriptions come with the unsubscribe button.
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    • Profile picture of the author mulesmurf
      Originally Posted by SteveTanabe View Post

      Unfortunately that's just part of the game. Hopefully your subscriptions come with the unsubscribe button.
      Pro's do not spam the hell out of their lists!!!

      The ones I am familiar with offer insight, freebies and ideas OVER half the time!

      I am thinking of Ryan Deiss, Daegan Smith, Rob Fore, Jason Nyback, Peter Drew and many more!

      Who agrees? Who disagrees?

      Thanks

      mulesmurf
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  • Profile picture of the author Chrisbroholm
    This is great advice! This is definitely what I want to do when starting my list :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author SeanSupplee
    the unsubscribe button is there for a reason just saying
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    • Originally Posted by SeanSupplee View Post

      the unsubscribe button is there for a reason just saying
      That good sir, is an excellent point.

      I just spent 30+ minutes cleaning out and un-FUBARing my inbox and unsubscribing from those horrid little lists that besmirch my email account.

      It. Feels. Great.

      Thank you.
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  • They're cookie cutter and drab, and they quickly make you lament ever having taken the freebie ( they you haven't even read yet.)

    Don't you guys ever check out your competition and realized your stuff all looks exactly the same and it's quite impossible to discern one email from another. They all just blur together.

    Your emails are a rain drop in a hurricane.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Ayling
    The best thing about other marketers doing this to their lists is that it makes it really easy to get people to want to be on your list.

    The problem I see is that a lot of marketers are just too selfish with the order of giving and getting.

    Don't ask people for an email address so they can get something.
    Give them something first, and then ask for an email. Can be as simple as putting a really good helpful video on a squeeze page - they watch this before they give their email address.
    If you start off the relationship right, then you can create trust which is needed to help the members of your list. Don't create trust so you can rip them off blind down the track.

    The only time I buy stuff off a list is when I like the list owner, and I almost feel indebted to them for actually helping me.
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    • Profile picture of the author PCH
      That's interesting John - thanks.

      I hadn't thought of giving something BEFORE asking them to opt in. It seems obvious now that you've said it. Hmm.. could explain why I'm not up there with the best of them.

      All the best,
      Paul

      Originally Posted by John Ayling View Post

      The best thing about other marketers doing this to their lists is that it makes it really easy to get people to want to be on your list.

      The problem I see is that a lot of marketers are just too selfish with the order of giving and getting.

      Don't ask people for an email address so they can get something.
      Give them something first, and then ask for an email. Can be as simple as putting a really good helpful video on a squeeze page - they watch this before they give their email address.
      If you start off the relationship right, then you can create trust which is needed to help the members of your list. Don't create trust so you can rip them off blind down the track.

      The only time I buy stuff off a list is when I like the list owner, and I almost feel indebted to them for actually helping me.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    If you opted-in to the list, IT IS NOT SPAM.

    If you don't like it, UNSUBSCRIBE.
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author roady
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      If you opted-in to the list, IT IS NOT SPAM.

      If you don't like it, UNSUBSCRIBE.
      The topic starter wants something really informative and not some crap. You're mixing crap and spam.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by roady View Post

        The topic starter wants something really informative and not some crap. You're mixing crap and spam.

        The thread starter is the subject line:

        Re: Hey list builders, why don't you stop spamming?
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Originally Posted by roady View Post

        The topic starter wants something really informative and not some crap. You're mixing crap and spam.
        Spam is made from 100% pure crap.

        It's a self-fulling prophesy.
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        Great content can turn your website into a GOLDMINE.

        So why are you are paying for lame copy that just lays there?
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      If you opted-in to the list, IT IS NOT SPAM.

      If you don't like it, UNSUBSCRIBE.
      Yep, here's the Can Spam Act The CAN-SPAM Act: A Compliance Guide for Business | BCP Business Center
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Hey email SUBSCRIBERS, why don't you learn the definition of "spamming"?

    Just sayin'...

    I don't even disagree with your sentiment that many a list builder are shooting themselves in the foot daily. But the way you're phrased your gripe is all wrong.

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author FredJones
      My take on this is different from many others here.

      Technically, for those of you who are talking about "unsubscribe" and pointing out that technically these email are not spam, you are technically and legally right.

      So, does that convert your subscriber to a buyer?

      Usually, no.

      So I know exactly what the OP is talking about. What he he saying may not technically be a spam, but most of the times it does not serve the purpose that the marketer had sent the email in the first place.

      The OP is saying, in different words, "dear marketer, here's how you can make your emails more effective" - that's my understanding of the OP's message and obviously I could be wrong in my understanding.

      So for others, you are welcome to define spam and suggest unsubscription, but I hardly think that's the point attempted originally to bring up on this thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

        My take on this is different from many others here.

        Technically, for those of you who are talking about "unsubscribe" and pointing out that technically these email are not spam, you are technically and legally right.

        So, does that convert your subscriber to a buyer?

        Usually, no.

        So I know exactly what the OP is talking about. What he he saying may not technically be a spam, but most of the times it does not serve the purpose that the marketer had sent the email in the first place.

        The OP is saying, in different words, "dear marketer, here's how you can make your emails more effective" - that's my understanding of the OP's message and obviously I could be wrong in my understanding.

        So for others, you are welcome to define spam and suggest unsubscription, but I hardly think that's the point attempted originally to bring up on this thread.

        A small percentage of my subscribers tell me all the time how I should change my mailing strategy to "better please them".

        Some even promise that if I don't change my ways, there will be a mass exodus of unsubcribes on my list.

        Yet, I have an unsubscribe rate of less than 1% per month, and I continue to get better open rates, higher click through rates, and higher sales conversions that most of my peers.

        About once a month, I even invite my subscribers to unsubscribe, and very very few people take me up on my offer. :p

        When I followed the advice of the OP, I barely generated any sales from my list. As soon as I started doing those things that he hates, I started earning substantial revenue from my lists.

        He is entitled to his opinion, but it does not mean that his opinion will lead to better results.
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
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        • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          When I followed the advice of the OP, I barely generated any sales from my list. As soon as I started doing those things that he hates, I started earning substantial revenue from my lists.
          Yes!! Can totally relate!! It's a VERY weird thing, this question of... "value" and what it means from one person to another! No joke, the e-mails for one (long ago) list started out being really long and honestly as "info packed" as possible. Only at the end was there a link and "soft" call to action to buy the product. Results? Not that good!

          Cut out virtually ALL the "info" and just became more "spammer-ish" (in the OP's sense of the word) and actually made sales! WEIRD, but 100% true! Lesson learned? Becoming a "spammer" can produce more positive results -- but it DEPENDS on the market! And clearly SOME subscribers actually prefer this because they clicked through and bought! Win-Win situation, but really, VERY weird... because personally these types of e-mails would NOT make me want to buy AT ALL.

          OP, if you aren't doing this already, setup a totally DIFFERENT e-mail account for all those newsletters and "spam" e-mails. You can then accumulate thousands of them and only have to "see" them when you want to do research or get ideas for your own e-mails!
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    • Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      Hey email SUBSCRIBERS, why don't you learn the definition of "spamming"?

      Just sayin'...

      I don't even disagree with your sentiment that many a list builder are shooting themselves in the foot daily. But the way you're phrased your gripe is all wrong.

      Brian
      I beg to differ.

      We were offered a "free" product.

      Then, once we've clicked on the link- it magically became a a mandatory "subscription" to get the items we'd been promised.

      I certainly didn't want an email every 12 hours offering get another inplausible get rich quick offer.

      Know what's really annoying to "subscribers"/hostages??

      Getting an email from someone that you've already "subscribed" to, offering another "free" offer that turns out to be merely another request for the email address that they already have.

      Spam, Spam, wonderfullllll Spam.
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      Great content can turn your website into a GOLDMINE.

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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

        We were offered a "free" product.

        Then, once we've clicked on the link- it magically became a a mandatory "subscription" to get the items we'd been promised.

        Any mailing that has an Unsubscribe link at the bottom of it IS NOT a mandatory subscription.
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
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        • Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Any mailing that has an Unsubscribe link at the bottom of it IS NOT a mandatory subscription.
          It turns from a simple request for a free PFD, into unstoppable torrent of lookalike infomercial hype.


          That's not marketing- that's bludgeoning.
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          Great content can turn your website into a GOLDMINE.

          So why are you are paying for lame copy that just lays there?
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Blame It On The Caffeine View Post

            It turns from a simple request for a free PFD, into unstoppable torrent of lookalike infomercial hype.


            That's not marketing- that's bludgeoning.

            Then take the free PDF and unsubscribe.

            You have not been forced to do anything at all. You wanted the free gift and you subscribed to get it.

            You are not forced to stay on the list once you get your freebie, but then you will never know if the list offers value beyond the first email, because you unsubbed immediately.

            As a marketer, you ought to consider paying attention to what is going on, because a lot of marketers do test how they handle their lists, and the bludgeoning is often very effective.

            If you wait too long to mail, people will forget how they got on your list. And if you mail them too infrequently, they will soon forget why they wanted to be on your list in the first place.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Brian,
              But the way you're phrased your gripe is all wrong.
              The fact that he posted this at all, after having been here for a year and seen however many of these useless threads he has to have seen over that time, is wrong. I mean, what the hell are these people thinking?

              "This isn't the outcome I want. I have the power to change it immediately by clicking my mouse twice and saying 'There's no place like home.' Doesn't matter. I'd rather waste the time of a whole lot of people who don't care and can't do anything about it, so I can yell at people who won't read it and wouldn't change if they did."

              Yeah. That's going to be real productive.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Bill,
                As a marketer, you ought to consider paying attention to what is going on, because a lot of marketers do test how they handle their lists, and the bludgeoning is often very effective.
                And some of the tests are not obvious.

                I sent out an email recently that got a bunch of responses from folks thinking that asking for suggestions for titles for a product was some sort of slick marketing move. Nope. I blanked on the title thing and had promised to get the report out to my subscribers. So, I came up with a useful way to deliver it without a title and without ignoring the fact that it wasn't there.

                Exactly what I said was happening.

                There was a test in that email which was very important to me, and not one person thought to comment on it, much less ask for the results. It was "cleverly concealed" in the following:
                If you know how to save a PDF that opens in your browser, and would rather avoid messing with a Zip file, you can use this link:

                Code:
                http://example.com/blah/filenamepdf
                For the folks comfortable with zipped versions, use this link:

                Code:
                http://example.com/blah/filenamezip
                I normally release reports and products in zip format. I had noticed that some folks never did, despite the fact that PDFs usually just open in the browser and aren't directly saved to disk. I wanted to get some real data on what people prefer, and the best way to do that is to ask them to choose an action, and see which they take.

                The stats, as of this moment: PDF wins, by almost 5 to 1. (4.8, to be precise.)

                Put another way, roughly 80% of my customers prefer PDFs (which are the majority of my products) delivered in a different format than the one I've been giving them.

                DOH!

                If I'd been smart, I would also have used a tracking link to see how many people went to look at the other sites I included in that issue. That could have yielded several product ideas.


                Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Always look on the bright side of life.... Always look on the bright side of Life...
                  Do do. Do do do do do do.

                  "He's not the Messiah. He's a naughty boy!"
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                  • Profile picture of the author BlissUk
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Do do. Do do do do do do.

                    "He's not the Messiah. He's a naughty boy!"
                    Classic!
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                • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  Bill,And some of the tests are not obvious.

                  I sent out an email recently that got a bunch of responses from folks thinking that asking for suggestions for titles for a product was some sort of slick marketing move. Nope. I blanked on the title thing and had promised to get the report out to my subscribers. So, I came up with a useful way to deliver it without a title and without ignoring the fact that it wasn't there.

                  Exactly what I said was happening.

                  There was a test in that email which was very important to me, and not one person thought to comment on it, much less ask for the results. It was "cleverly concealed" in the following:I normally release reports and products in zip format. I had noticed that some folks never did, despite the fact that PDFs usually just open in the browser and aren't directly saved to disk. I wanted to get some real data on what people prefer, and the best way to do that is to ask them to choose an action, and see which they take.

                  The stats, as of this moment: PDF wins, by almost 5 to 1. (4.8, to be precise.)

                  Put another way, roughly 80% of my customers prefer PDFs (which are the majority of my products) delivered in a different format than the one I've been giving them.

                  DOH!

                  If I'd been smart, I would also have used a tracking link to see how many people went to look at the other sites I included in that issue. That could have yielded several product ideas.


                  Paul
                  LOL.. I took both versions.


                  Sorry if I skewed your results.
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                • Profile picture of the author ShayB
                  These threads make my eye twitch.

                  1. You wanted a freebie. I can't speak for other marketers, but my freebies take work to produce. And time. And experience.

                  In return, I ask for your email address.

                  My hope is that you'll like my style, my biz model and my products. That's why I give stuff away. Like the way they give food samples at the Food Court in the mall.

                  But it's not like a cell phone contract. You're not locked into anything. You can unsubscribe anytime. No hard feelings.

                  2. If you give free info to people, they may love you. They may buy your stuff. Then again, you may end up with a bunch of freebie seekers. And guess what? You pay each month for those lists with your autoresponder fees.

                  Different people mail with different frequencies.

                  3. I mail my list about once a week. Maybe twice if it's important. I have free info, sometimes product recommendations (though not usually WSOs), and I've added a contest to my newsletter. So don't say "99% of list builders do..." because they don't. I'm on about 20 lists, and they are ALL different.

                  Maybe you're drawn to the kind of freebie given by marketers that use certain tactics?

                  If you don't like the list, then unsubscribe. Life's too short to rant about things so easily fixed.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    Caffeine,
                    LOL.. I took both versions.

                    Sorry if I skewed your results.
                    Nope. That's part of the measurement.

                    anan28,
                    Unsubscribe as soon as you start getting crap.
                    Define 'crap,' please.


                    Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author tpw
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  There was a test in that email which was very important to me, and not one person thought to comment on it, much less ask for the results. It was "cleverly concealed" in the following:I normally release reports and products in zip format. I had noticed that some folks never did, despite the fact that PDFs usually just open in the browser and aren't directly saved to disk. I wanted to get some real data on what people prefer, and the best way to do that is to ask them to choose an action, and see which they take.

                  The stats, as of this moment: PDF wins, by almost 5 to 1. (4.8, to be precise.)

                  Put another way, roughly 80% of my customers prefer PDFs (which are the majority of my products) delivered in a different format than the one I've been giving them.

                  I noticed the test, but did not think too much of it, to be honest. That is definitely an interesting outcome that I would never have considered to be important.

                  Here is another one for you.

                  I am on your list, but I seldom read it. But I actually read this one beginning to end.

                  Why?

                  You subject line intrigued me.

                  Additionally, I am always surprised that you still run pure text. When I first started doing mailings, I did pure text only. But a few months ago, I switched to HTML and TEXT. Providing the HTML version has enabled me to track my numbers a lot more closely, and that I believe has helped me to significantly improve upon what I do with my mailings.

                  Since you are on my list, you probably receive the HTML version of my mailing. Even with it, I format it to almost look like plain text.

                  I love using the HTML email, so I can know in real time how many people are actually opening my emails. You just cannot do that with text email.
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                • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  Bill,And some of the tests are not obvious.

                  ...

                  There was a test in that email which was very important to me, and not one person thought to comment on it, much less ask for the results. It was "cleverly concealed" in the following:I normally release reports and products in zip format. I had noticed that some folks never did, despite the fact that PDFs usually just open in the browser and aren't directly saved to disk. I wanted to get some real data on what people prefer, and the best way to do that is to ask them to choose an action, and see which they take.

                  The stats, as of this moment: PDF wins, by almost 5 to 1. (4.8, to be precise.)

                  Put another way, roughly 80% of my customers prefer PDFs (which are the majority of my products) delivered in a different format than the one I've been giving them.

                  ...
                  Paul
                  I think this may be due more to the default settings on the Adobe Reader software, than the actual preference of the reader.
                  I prefer to DL the file and then open it in a dedicated window to ensure that I have a 'hard copy' saved, and it's not just a web page that goes away when I close it- but Adobe Reader defaults to 'open in browser window'
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                  Great content can turn your website into a GOLDMINE.

                  So why are you are paying for lame copy that just lays there?
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            • Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              Any mailing that has an Unsubscribe link at the bottom of it IS NOT a mandatory subscription.
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              Then take the free PDF and unsubscribe.

              You have not been forced to do anything at all. You wanted the free gift and you subscribed to get it.

              You are not forced to stay on the list once you get your freebie, but then you will never know if the list offers value beyond the first email, because you unsubbed immediately.

              As a marketer, you ought to consider paying attention to what is going on, because a lot of marketers do test how they handle their lists, and the bludgeoning is often very effective.

              If you wait too long to mail, people will forget how they got on your list. And if you mail them too infrequently, they will soon forget why they wanted to be on your list in the first place.
              I shall have to respectfully disagree. Some list builders rely on trickery instead of talent.

              if you're offering a "freebie" only to subscribers- say so up front.



              "Click here to get your free report right now"

              is not that same as:

              " Click her to get your free report- and then enter your email address- and then wait for a conformation email- now go check for this email- which is likely from a name you haven't seen before- can't find it? check your spam folder, it may be in there- now click on that email- now find the link for the freebie- now click the link- - now wait for teh download. now find the zip file you just downloaded and unzip it to the default name that's some nonsensical file name- and is rarely, if ever labeled: Free Report- now you're done- oh wait.- go back to the email and click unsubscribe so they don't flood your inbox."










              (that having been said, Paul Myer's list was about the only subscription I kept when I cleaned out my inbox tonight)
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              Great content can turn your website into a GOLDMINE.

              So why are you are paying for lame copy that just lays there?
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    • Profile picture of the author mulesmurf
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      Hey email SUBSCRIBERS, why don't you learn the definition of "spamming"?

      Just sayin'...

      I don't even disagree with your sentiment that many a list builder are shooting themselves in the foot daily. But the way you're phrased your gripe is all wrong.

      Brian
      Heh,

      I think there is "LEGAL SPAMMING" and illegal SPAMMING don't you?

      I know plenty of marketers that just fill the next email with the last offer they saw. (Because they try any and everything, then send it to their list).

      Whenever there is something "NEW" out there, I get 15 "Marketers" telling me about it as if they all did their homework on it. I am going to call that SPAM!

      Remember, SPAM was called SPAM waaaaaaaay before it was illegal!

      Just sayen

      mulesmurf
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by mulesmurf View Post

        I think there is "LEGAL SPAMMING" and illegal SPAMMING don't you?
        Yes, I think that, myself ... but I'm willing to try to humor people who claim the opposite, just as long as they don't also try to pretend that marketers deliberately deceiving their subscribers by getting the opt-in under false pretences is defensible, appropriate or welcome. Those people damage all of us, in the long run.

        (I hope this doesn't really need to be said, but I'm not referring to Brian, of course, I hasten to clarify!!).

        Originally Posted by mulesmurf View Post

        Remember, SPAM was called SPAM waaaaaaaay before it was illegal!
        Good point.
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  • Profile picture of the author KingYoungPimpin
    Unsubscribe bro! Problem solved
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  • Profile picture of the author justbeenpaid888
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    I sign up to a lot of lists, sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.
    So.....where does the spamming part come in?
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  • Profile picture of the author sammib01
    I only came here because I saw Paul posted something. The internet is flooded with offers, deals and bargains almost noone wants. But some people really do think their stuff is great, even or especially when it sucks. But I think the Bad ones are the people sending 100,000 offers a day or more. OK there is always autoresponders that are sending on autopilot.

    I have an extra Googlemail for offers it has over 28,000 unread Emails in it. I open those from people I know, or offers that look good, I must admit I am sometimes a WarriorForum junkie so I look at many of them as well. My time is very limited because I travel so much but I read my Emails during breakfast no matter what country I am in (always WLan in the hotel or some Hot spot). It is interesting And sometimes amusing. I think we should all take a deep breath and for some a Valium and calm down. I mean just because you get an Email doesn't mean you have to read it and if you do you do not have to make a purchase. Unsubscribe if you don't want to recieve from them again.

    Always look on the bright side of life.... Always look on the bright side of Life...
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  • Profile picture of the author The Star
    haha you may have to unsubscribe if you do not like him. good email follow up is to build relationships with your lsit and provide benefits to them, do not just sell the product alone.
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  • Profile picture of the author anan28
    Unsubscribe as soon as you start getting crap.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    I sign up to a lot of lists, sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.
    Don't you think that's the root cause of your issue, right there?

    When you were a kid, how many times did you actually burn your fingers on a hot stove before it finally sunk in it was probably a bad thing?

    I think it's fair to say that we all understand what you're getting at, but most of us don't understand why you're complaining about a situation you have absolute control over.

    Forget unsubscribing - instead, STOP subscribing in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rajul kaushik
    To all respected senior warriors, list owners etc etc:

    Yes, its a legitimate subscription request and therefore you are bombarding with offers BUT then there's an ethical method of doing so.

    Please let me know if you want me to send screen shots of emails and their misguiding subject lines sent by some of the senior warriors right here in WF. My exposure will put them to dire shame if exposed.

    Common warriors, pls do not protect the wrong doers by simply saying that we need to press the unsubscribe button. Don't you agree that these email senders also should have the decency of keeping their tone of ''pre-selling emails'' in ''request mode'' rather than luring with attention grabbing, cheap headlines.

    Don't get cheap pls.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Rajul kaushik View Post

      Common warriors, pls do not protect the wrong doers by simply saying that we need to press the unsubscribe button. Don't you agree that these email senders also should have the decency of keeping their tone of ''pre-selling emails'' in ''request mode'' rather than luring with attention grabbing, cheap headlines.

      When I get emails that have a subject line that says, "You have received a payment," I always unsubscribe.

      It is deceptive, and I don't like it.

      I am willing to bet that people see a surge in unsubscribes when they do that. And if they do see a surge in unsubs, they might learn not to do that in the future. But then again, some never learn.

      The "tone of the pre-selling email" will determine the results achieved with that email.

      If the goal is to sell something, then sell it. Don't beat around the bush. If you feel uncomfortable asking me to buy something, then I feel uncomfortable buying from you.

      Tone matters, yes. But we should convey competence and confidence, rather than timidly asking someone to do something.

      We are not doing list managers any favors by staying on their lists when we feel they are deceiving us with their headlines or copy. Besides, I don't owe them anything. I stay on their lists only as long as I feel it is in my interest to do so.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jtraits
    Indeed, making it more personal, shorter but more interesting and with some quality inside a message, can change a lot between the relationship of sender and receiver. But then again, not all people find interesting all the topics so yeah, thank god for a working unsubscibe link
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  • Profile picture of the author warrock
    Its funny you should say that. I'm on your list and I find you ripping off others and sending their content (but I'll admit its valuable content BUT its still ripping off someone else's content).

    Reminds me of the pot calling the kettle black!

    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    I sign up to a lot of lists, sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.

    99% of the time, I get inundated with crap.

    What kind of crap?

    A plethora of offers. "Check this offer out!"

    And every single e-mail in their funnel is like this.

    Why not provide a little more value? Why not build a relationship.

    Its not bad to promote *GOOD* offers, I promote stuff too of course. But damn guys, be a little selective?

    And give your list some breathing room and offer value in between offers. Something that they can actually use and make a little moola off of. Why not?

    If you help someone make money without making them pay for ****, don't you think they'll be your BFF for life? They may then buy whatever you suggest afterwards.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Always use a dedicated Yahoo/Hotmail/Gmail account when signing up for anything unimportant that requires your email (lists, forums, etc...). This way you go in, get what you wanted right then and ignore the 10,000 pieces of spammy stuff you received since the last time you logged in.
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  • Profile picture of the author AllenBrayan
    At first I was too excited to find this list, but sadly it's a load of hogwash. Some of the links are spammy too. It would be kind of you if you please revamp it. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author dmister
    UNSUBSCRIBE




    P.S I hate the constant promotions too!
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    dmister

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  • Profile picture of the author svk_hereiam
    A very relevant discussion..... I also optin to a lot of lists and I must say there are very few who really add value when they send emails... the only way out is to unsubscribe... at least that should teach the list owner something...
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    • Profile picture of the author louie6925
      I think it makes some people look desperate if they are mailing everyday! it also fills me with major doubt that any of them have actually tried out what they are trying to sell,...........which results in me having no trust in them and leads to an unsubscribe!

      I mail my list once a month and never offer anything I haven't tried out myself! as it turns out my sales are the same as when I was mailing every few days!
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      Feel free to chat if you live in the UK I may have something for you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    Probably unrelated to the OP, but I felt the need to post this.

    I signed up to a couple lists about a week ago (read some really good posts from the list owners here and was genuinely looking forward to their emails).

    ...5 or 6 (each) affiliate promotions later...

    Yeah, what a disappointment. Just something for some of you guys to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
    Spam is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately.

    If you signed in... well, you may not like the broadcasts you're getting but it's definitely not spam.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

      You wanted a freebie. I can't speak for other marketers, but my freebies take work to produce. And time. And experience.

      In return, I ask for your email address.
      OMG, Shay, how DARE you ask for so much in return??!!!!!!!

      Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post


      Life's too short to rant about things so easily fixed.
      Wise, wise words (if only more Warriors would heed them...of course, if they did the number of new threads per day would probably plummet!)

      (Btw, I hope your eye has stopped twitching! )
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        OMG, Shay, how DARE you ask for so much in return??!!!!!!!



        Wise, wise words (if only more Warriors would heed them...of course, if they did the number of new threads per day would probably plummet!)

        (Btw, I hope your eye has stopped twitching! )
        I know! Geez, I'm such a pushy broad.

        (My eye is pretty twitch-less at the moment. )
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    • Profile picture of the author Larquini
      The man has a point.
      I was having a look through the car yard the other day and the used car salesman come up to me and was like:
      "What sort of car you after sir"?
      "You wanna take this one for a drive"?
      "Step into my office and i'll see what kind of deal we can do"

      and I was like-
      "@#*% spammer" and got the hell outta there
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      • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
        OK. So the original poster used the word "spamming" when he most likely should have chosen another word there.

        But HERE'S what I hate.

        When you BUY SOMETHING and then are bombarded with multiple emails to buy, buy, buy, and they are all affiliate promotions, and they come like clockwork every day, sometimes even twice a day, TO YOUR PAYPAL EMAIL ADDRESS. Because as a paying customer you'd think that the list owner would treat you with more respect. But they don't, they just keep bombarding you with "buy stuff from my friend _______ " and "this is so cool" and . . . ! Heck, there's one guy that I made the mistake of buying something from who sends out emails just about every eight to twelve hours!

        I think you get the point. (If only they would!)

        The reason I hate it is, if I unsubscribe from a list like that then if there ever is an update to the product I actually paid for, I will miss it!

        Some people treat their PAYING CUSTOMER list just as bad as (or in a few cases even worse) the way the OP has described.

        Rest assured, THIS is the REAL reason they are now saying email marketing is dead. (Whoever "they" are!) And this is especially annoying with anything that has code, such as software or server scripts or Wordpress themes.

        Nowadays it's so bad till one way a marketer recently impressed me was, he came out and said "Don't buy this." And it wasn't "don't buy this until ______ " or "don't buy this from anybody else because I'm giving you this super-cool and productive bonus only through my link." It was straight out, "Don't waste your money." Even though it had an affiliate program and he could have likely gotten paid quite nicely to join the chorus pitching the product.

        And here's the deal.

        I'm not saying don't email. I'm just saying, the ratio of useful information to sales pitches needs to change. Send me something USEFUL more often than you send something with a sales message or link. Because in actuality your emails should make me WANT to hear from you, make me actually LOOK FORWARD to seeing your name in my inbox!
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        • Profile picture of the author warrock
          Originally Posted by ahlexis View Post

          But HERE'S what I hate.

          When you BUY SOMETHING and then are bombarded with multiple emails to buy, buy, buy, and they are all affiliate promotions, and they come like clockwork every day, sometimes even twice a day, TO YOUR PAYPAL EMAIL ADDRESS. Because as a paying customer you'd think that the list owner would treat you with more respect. But they don't, they just keep bombarding you with "buy stuff from my friend _______ " and "this is so cool" and . . . ! Heck, there's one guy that I made the mistake of buying something from who sends out emails just about every eight to twelve hours!

          I think you get the point. (If only they would!)

          The reason I hate it is, if I unsubscribe from a list like that then if there ever is an update to the product I actually paid for, I will miss it!

          Some people treat their PAYING CUSTOMER list just as bad as (or in a few cases even worse) the way the OP has described.

          Rest assured, THIS is the REAL reason they are now saying email marketing is dead. (Whoever "they" are!) And this is especially annoying with anything that has code, such as software or server scripts or Wordpress themes.

          Nowadays it's so bad till one way a marketer recently impressed me was, he came out and said "Don't buy this." And it wasn't "don't buy this until ______ " or "don't buy this from anybody else because I'm giving you this super-cool and productive bonus only through my link." It was straight out, "Don't waste your money." Even though it had an affiliate program and he could have likely gotten paid quite nicely to join the chorus pitching the product.

          And here's the deal.

          I'm not saying don't email. I'm just saying, the ratio of useful information to sales pitches needs to change. Send me something USEFUL more often than you send something with a sales message or link. Because in actuality your emails should make me WANT to hear from you, make me actually LOOK FORWARD to seeing your name in my inbox!
          I have the same complaint. WSOs I've bought have nearly killed my email and there is no escaping since they spam the s**t out of my Paypal email. I even asked one person for a support only email and you know what... he removed my access to the tool and since it was past 60 days I could not do anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SergioFelix View Post

      If you signed in... well, you may not like the broadcasts you're getting but it's definitely not spam.
      This isn't necessarily so. And that's the point, here.

      If someone has signed me up automatically because I bought a product from them, and they added me to their Aweber list (or whatever), or they made me sign up "for free product updates" in order to download the product, and then they send me three emails per day promoting WSO's as an affiliate, then they're spammers. They have deceived me about what they wanted my email address for. The deception means that they don't have my permission to send me what they're sending me. This is not permission-based marketing, and it does fit the definition of spam which you yourself gave in your post above.

      Yes, I can unsubscribe, and of course I will - and I won't ever buy from them again.

      That settles matters between them and me, and solves my problem.

      But this is the Warrior Forum, and it's legitimate (within the rules of the forum) to discuss "marketing policy" here, too: if I can't discuss it legitimately here, in the Warrior Forum, and tell those people that I think what they're doing is wrong and that they're bringing the industry into disrepute, where can I do that

      So don't try and tell me that by definition, nothing they ever send me can possibly be "spam" just because I gave them my email address for another purpose. That's wrong.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Silvey
        "If someone has signed me up automatically because I bought a product from them, and they added me to their Aweber list (or whatever), or they made me sign up "for free product updates" in order to download the product, and then they send me three emails per day promoting WSO's as an affiliate, then they're spammers. They have deceived me about what they wanted my email address for. The deception means that they don't have my permission to send me what they're sending me. This is not permission-based marketing, and it does fit the definition of spam which you yourself gave in your post above"

        Sorry Alexa, but you are wrong. If they are compliant with the Can Spam Act as well as their Privacy Policy then they can market to you till the end of time unless you unsubscribe.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Chris Silvey View Post

          Sorry Alexa, but you are wrong. If they are compliant with the Can Spam Act as well as their Privacy Policy then they can market to you till the end of time unless you unsubscribe.
          Hey ... I didn't say that what they're doing is illegal, Chris: I said that it's wrong (deception usually is, you know?) and that it brings the industry into disrepute.
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            I'll take your your "Hey list builders, why don't you stop spamming?" and raise you a "Hey list builders, why don't you quit selling your list's email addresses?" !

            That annoys me even more.

            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
              Alright - Time for some definitions:

              Spam - Any email that I decide I don't want - even if I make that decision after I read the email... He should have known I didn't want that information/offer!

              Scam - Any method that doesn't make me six figures in one month (regardless of what the sales copy claims) or any method that contains information I've heard before.

              Black Hat - Any method that I'm not currently comfortable with... Actually, any method that I'm not currently using is, by definition... Black Hat.

              Any questions? :p
              Signature

              I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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            • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              I'll take your your "Hey list builders, why don't you stop spamming?" and raise you a "Hey list builders, why don't you quit selling your list's email addresses?" !
              And I'll take your "Hey list builders, why don't you quit selling your list's email addresses?" and upgrade it to "Hey list builders, why don't you quite buying emails from others who don't give a damn about their lists, and stop spamming them?"

              That way, I'll stop receiving Viagra, dating and weight loss ads (it should be mandatory when opting in to a list to specify age, sex and weight as well, so at least their offers are a little bit more targeted!).
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnStP
                I think internet marketers look at different ways to build and monetize lists, and end up putting each method into 'easy' or 'difficult' categories.

                Getting as many people on your list as quickly as possible and then playing the numbers by sending out offer after offer seems easy. Personally, I think the 'churn and burn' method is costly, time-consuming and not really long-term.

                Building your list with qualified leads, continually providing value to that list in the form of information, and then occasionally sending out solicitations for products and services you use yourself takes longer. You may not make as much in the short-term, but I think you end up with a much more responsive list that generates more profit long-term and doesn't require as much upkeep.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by canyon View Post

                And I'll take your "Hey list builders, why don't you quit selling your list's email addresses?" and upgrade it to "Hey list builders, why don't you quite buying emails from others who don't give a damn about their lists, and stop spamming them?"

                That way, I'll stop receiving Viagra, dating and weight loss ads (it should be mandatory when opting in to a list to specify age, sex and weight as well, so at least their offers are a little bit more targeted!).
                Haha! I can't agree more with that one.

                Can you imagine how I feel when I get those Viagra offers?

                Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Hey ... I didn't say that what they're doing is illegal, Chris: I said that it's wrong (deception usually is, you know?) and that it brings the industry into disrepute.
            Right/Wrong is all a matter of opinion.

            Regardless, what you described still isn't spam.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

              Right/Wrong is all a matter of opinion.
              Undoubtedly. I think it's probably fair to surmise, though, that very few people are going to dissent from the position that blatant deception is "wrong", and perhaps even that most of those who do that are unlikely still to be active and successful in the industry for the long-term.

              Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

              Regardless, what you described still isn't spam.
              Perhaps not as strictly defined by the Act: just as defined by the behavioral standards that lower the collective public reputation/status of "internet marketers" and are themselves responsible for determining what the next Act will be, how many regulators there are, and how strong their teeth are. Regulatory enforcement is a direct response to collective industry behavior and public complaints about it, as it always has been, and probably always will be. Those who are not part of the solution are part of the problem.
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris Silvey
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Hey ... I didn't say that what they're doing is illegal, Chris: I said that it's wrong (deception usually is, you know?) and that it brings the industry into disrepute.
            True True. There are differences in etiquette, business practices, and the Email Laws.
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      • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
        Wow, nice story.

        And I get what you're saying but you lost me at "If someone has signed me up automatically because I bought a product from them".

        I never said or even implied that "someone" would be "automatically" signing you "to Aweber or whatever" because you bought a product.

        I quoted the spam definition from Wikipedia and added an extra sentence.

        Where did the rest came from?

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        This isn't necessarily so. And that's the point, here.

        If someone has signed me up automatically because I bought a product from them, and they added me to their Aweber list (or whatever), or they made me sign up "for free product updates" in order to download the product, and then they send me three emails per day promoting WSO's as an affiliate, then they're spammers. They have deceived me about what they wanted my email address for. The deception means that they don't have my permission to send me what they're sending me. This is not permission-based marketing, and it does fit the definition of spam which you yourself gave in your post above.

        Yes, I can unsubscribe, and of course I will - and I won't ever buy from them again.

        That settles matters between them and me, and solves my problem.

        But this is the Warrior Forum, and it's legitimate (within the rules of the forum) to discuss "marketing policy" here, too: if I can't discuss it legitimately here, in the Warrior Forum, and tell those people that I think what they're doing is wrong and that they're bringing the industry into disrepute, where can I do that

        So don't try and tell me that by definition, nothing they ever send me can possibly be "spam" just because I gave them my email address for another purpose. That's wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by SergioFelix View Post

          I never said or even implied that "someone" would be "automatically" signing you "to Aweber or whatever" because you bought a product.
          I didn't say - or even imply - that you had said that. I was giving it merely as part of one counter-example (I gave others, too) to what you said. It is possible for people to have your email address - sometimes under false and deceptive pretences of "product updates" - and then to send you spam (e.g. 3 offers per day of WSO's for which they're an affiliate.)

          Originally Posted by SergioFelix View Post

          I quoted the spam definition from Wikipedia and added an extra sentence.

          Where did the rest came from?
          It was a response to the sentence you added, which was (a) incorrect, (b) woolly thinking, and (c) typical of the kind of reasoning that has resulted in all of us being officiously externally regulated rather than largely self-regulated as we might be if people didn't clutch at pseudological straws as you did with your erroneous additional statement.
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          • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
            I still can't see how this is the same scenario...

            This is what the original message says:

            I sign up to a lot of lists, sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.

            And you are implying that automatically being signed up to an e-mail list after buying a product is the same exact thing.

            Hmmmm... ;-)

            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            I didn't say - or even imply - that you had said that. I was giving it merely as one counter-example (I gave others, too) to what you said. It is possible for people to have your email address - sometimes under false and deceptive pretences of "product updates" - and then to send you spam (e.g. 3 offers per day of WSO's for which they're an affiliate.)

            It was a response to the sentence you added, which was incorrect.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by SergioFelix View Post

              you are implying that automatically being signed up to an e-mail list after buying a product is the same exact thing.
              Not only was I not implying that, but I don't even think that. Let's just agree to differ, Sergio?
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              • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
                Maybe the coffee hasn't kicked in yet... but okay, I'll agree to differ Alexa! ;-)

                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                Not only was I not implying that, but I don't even think that. Let's just agree to differ, Sergio?
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  • Profile picture of the author damasgate
    I don't mind getting promoted to, I like to see what the new shiny wso is, but does that mean I have to get like 20 emails a week?
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    • Profile picture of the author JEasy
      If you subscribe to the list for the freebie, you're getting spammed. Period. You're not a "valued subscriber", you're a customer. Wake up and get over it. Just unsubscribe from the list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gianni
    I think you are right my friend, most people here are too eager to see the dollar sign coming in every month.

    The key of this business is to provide value first, before making any money. That is why many people in this business get frustrated to making money online.

    Offer after offer is not good because you wear out your list, the idea of this business is to stay on it for the long term.

    It is down to each of us to look after this business and those who are subscribed to our lists.

    I hope that helps a little bit.
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  • Profile picture of the author yougpeter
    tHE CRAZIEST part of this is if you subscribe and the they selling your emails to another marketer and they selling to another.After that my email is full of ......( this was rude word)
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  • Profile picture of the author Palusko
    If you buy a product from the sender, then unsubscribing is often times not a good option, because you will stop getting product-related emails. So I kind of get over emails I don't want, so that I can keep receiving product updates that I do want.

    The problem with this email bombardment (I'm not sure I can call most of it 'marketing') is, that it is all over the place.

    As an example - I bought a Facebook related product. The product creator often times sends 2 emails with offers every day. Yet, I do not mind, and in fact check every offer he suggests. The reason - because all his product offers are for products closely related to his own one. He does not jump from Facebook, to blogging, to SEO... he sticks with products that are related to Facebook, and can either enhance his product, or contain information that can benefit users of his product. Plus, in most cases he actually reviews the products he promotes beforehand.

    Unfortunately, this is more of an exception than a rule. Most people will simply send you offers based on 'I-promote-your-product-you-promote-mine', rather than quality or relevancy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    1. If you want a relationship, buy a dog. j/k :p
    2. Curiosity killed the cat.
    3. As for freebies, TINSTAAFL...




    (There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)




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    "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
    ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author Viramara
    To me spamming is only when the marketers keep emailing me after I unsubscribed. Or if they promised they will mail once a week but then behold and lo - they mail everyday.
    And I've seen several did both!

    I don't mind getting promoted to, I like to see what the new shiny wso is, but does that mean I have to get like 20 emails a week?
    I've got a lady emailed me 20 a day

    Can you imagine how I feel when I get those Viagra offers?
    Not to mention the f_kbook and porns. I mean, if they want to send me porn, send the male porn, please! Female watches female is no cool. {rant}
    Signature
    Those who have time and search for a better time will lose time (Sufi Proverb)
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  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    There will be a never ending discussion about spam emails. What we can do is to ignore, unsubscribe, or junk those emails we treat as a 'spam.'
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    What happens when a Spammer takes Viagra?

    He gets taller.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      What happens when a Spammer takes Viagra?

      He gets taller.

      I had to think about that for a minute, then it hit me.

      I'd thank you, but I am all out of Thanks at the moment.
      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I had to think about that for a minute, then it hit me.

        I'd thank you, but I am all out of Thanks at the moment.
        Yeah, when I first heard it it was about a lawyer.. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Chadleystar
    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    I sign up to a lot of lists, sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.

    99% of the time, I get inundated with crap.

    What kind of crap?

    A plethora of offers. "Check this offer out!"

    And every single e-mail in their funnel is like this.

    Why not provide a little more value? Why not build a relationship.

    Its not bad to promote *GOOD* offers, I promote stuff too of course. But damn guys, be a little selective?

    And give your list some breathing room and offer value in between offers. Something that they can actually use and make a little moola off of. Why not?

    If you help someone make money without making them pay for ****, don't you think they'll be your BFF for life? They may then buy whatever you suggest afterwards.
    Same day different email.....
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  • Profile picture of the author Caragui
    I understand where you're coming from.

    It would be nice to give some value (aka information) once in a while and not just promote things.

    I am also in many lists and I do not hesitate to unsubscribe when the marketeer goes over board in the promotions.
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    Join Me In My Internet Marketing Journey at Nomasir Marketing

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  • Profile picture of the author UberNoob
    If you don't like what people have to offer, then unsubscribe. However, it's a fair point. Too many list builders just wanna spam affiliate offers that they haven't even implemented themselves....
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    • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
      Originally Posted by UberNoob View Post

      If you don't like what people have to offer, then unsubscribe. However, it's a fair point. Too many list builders just wanna spam affiliate offers that they haven't even implemented themselves....
      Yes, this is a very fair observation. Can maybe there be a third option of trying (when possible) to have a separate e-mail address JUST for newsletters and freebies? This idea is good for some because it keeps primary inboxes free from all the mail. More challenging is when things paid for with PayPal result in primary paypal address being added to lists automatically. Will it get to a point where people need a second, "disposable" Paypal account just for purchases? Hopefully not!
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  • Profile picture of the author onlinebizgiant
    List building and keeping relationship with your list is an art. Everybody can't do that. May be I can tell 100 things about how to treat your lists but at least one thing we marketers can remember is, the person who read your mail is a real person like you and me with a beating heart, with emotions, feelings, ambitions and aspirations. That's it. If we understand this, we can't spam anybody.
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    Here's the thing, ya'll.

    If I'm sending regular traffic to a squeeze page online for a freebie, anyone who subscribes in is going to be shown my products. On a very regular basis, as that's how my funnel and follow-up emails are made. They're going to be shown all my stuff, as well as the freebies having all my affiliate links in them! *gasp*

    I'll also send them links to affiliate offers that I want to spread and make money on! OH GOD NO!!

    And here's where the tricky part comes in, when I get emails from people saying "You're promoting too much" or "waaaaah" I either IGNORE THEM, or tell them to UNSUBSCRIBE.

    Simple reason being they are on the freebie list for a reason. They didn't buy anything from me. Once they do, I make sure to keep the emails from crossing over each other on my lists, so they only get one set of emails from me. That keeps them from being "spammed" as you say.

    It's all list training, making them expect to see stuff from me. Yes, I sprinkle in some content here and there, and the offers die down a bit once they've bought one of my products. It turns into more of a relationship then. I want my buyers to know me and like me.

    The freebie seekers who complain and whine, well, I don't have time for them. Sorry. I don't do customer support and services for free, at the very least buy one of my products, MY products, before I start trying to make time for you.

    To the OP, perhaps you should STOP joining lists because you're curious and/or want the freebie? I'm just saying. It's a good way to not get stuff done when you look at your email and you have 50 new emails before 8 am and they're all from the guys you were "curious" about.

    And like others have already said, there is always the unsubscribe button.

    -Sean
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    Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
    Sean's Guide To The Forum
    Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

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  • Profile picture of the author Alfredo Carrion
    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    I sign up to a lot of lists
    That's a very bad habit you should avoid.

    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.
    I don't want curious people on my list forever, I want buyers.

    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    If you help someone make money without making them pay for ****, don't you think they'll be your BFF for life?
    Again, I don't want friends, I want buyers.

    IKEA use to send my their catalogs every year. And Lidle and El Corte Ingl├ęs and even my car mechanic. They only send me offers, nothing else. I buy from them. A LOT of people do. Do you think they want me as their BFF for life without me buying anything?

    As a seller relationships are important, yes. You have to be nice with your list. But relationship building is not the goal here. Really.
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    • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Alfredo Carrion View Post

      I don't want curious people on my list forever, I want buyers.
      Curiosity is good. Curios people in my list are way better than those who are just sitting in silence waiting for my next email blast or my seasonal 'hi/hello' on Skype. In sales, the more questions your prospective buyer asks, the better. You don't even have to ask some probing questions. He/She will voluntarily ask a lot and give you an idea about his lifestyle, what he loves to do, what he hates to do, what he wants and he doesn't, etc. We love curious people. Mind you, curiosity will have to strike you first before you can even decide that you really need to buy somebody else's product. I've never known anyone who bought the product first and started to wonder why did he buy the product hours after he bought it.

      Originally Posted by Alfredo Carrion View Post

      Again, I don't want friends, I want buyers. As a seller relationships are important, yes. You have to be nice with your list. But relationship building is not the goal here. Really.
      In business, 'relations' come first before 'transactions.' Would you lend your cellphone to someone you've just met on the train in an instant?

      You may disregard my answers. That's just me anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    If you help someone make money without making them pay for ****, don't you think they'll be your BFF for life?
    See, This right here, I got a bone to pick with this.

    No I don't think they'll be my bff for life if I help them out for free and make them money. I don't. And no I don't think they'll buy whatever I talk about later.

    Because they'll be expecting things for FREE at that point. You understand?

    They'll be expecting a whole lot for a little, and that's not how the world works.

    When my mentor signs people up for $12,000 coaching, he promises at least a 500% increase in profit. For some of these clients of his, that's a drop in a bucket compared to what they'll make with his help. You think they'd listen to him if he was doing it for free?

    Do you pay your bills by doing things for free?

    I'd much rather charge people a decent amount of money for something, and if they put it to the test and use it and make the money I know they can with my strategies, they'll see a real value to what I say and do. Because then when I make another product that's high ticket, they'll be ready to dish out for it, knowing they spent the money before and got exactly what they needed.

    People put real value on something they pay for. Something that is "free" is liable to be forgotten on a harddrive, thrown away, and never used. What good is that to anyone? They may never even READ IT. But if they buy it, they read it, consider it, and sometimes put it into action.

    Unless you're some kind of amazing action-taker and do everything in every product you get for free, then good on you.

    But I kinda doubt that.

    -Sean
    Signature

    Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
    Sean's Guide To The Forum
    Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

      Unless you're some kind of amazing action-taker and do everything in every product you get for free, then good on you.

      But I kinda doubt that.

      -Sean

      Yeah, I seriously doubt that is possible.
      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Profile picture of the author pers1t
        Such list builder don't understand that this behavior actually damages their business. The could have made much more money in return if they tried to build relationships and provide value to their list.
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      • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Yeah, I seriously doubt that is possible.
        I'm sure you and Sam could find a way to make it into a product for people.

        "How to do your freebie pdf's with blinding speed!"

        Or something like that from the redneck marketers.
        Signature

        Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
        Sean's Guide To The Forum
        Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

          I'm sure you and Sam could find a way to make it into a product for people.

          "How to do your freebie pdf's with blinding speed!"

          Or something like that from the redneck marketers.

          Tee hee... I am working on a product similar to that now... :p
          Signature
          Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
          Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author alexgold87
    Once I gave my email for little freebie and next day got more than 200 email I stopped getting freebies on external websites, only WF.

    Spam isn't good business.
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    Pinghall - Real-Time Website Monitor.
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  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    Why not provide a little more value? Why not build a relationship.

    Its not bad to promote *GOOD* offers, I promote stuff too of course. But damn guys, be a little selective?

    And give your list some breathing room and offer value in between offers. Something that they can actually use and make a little moola off of. Why not?

    If you help someone make money without making them pay for ****, don't you think they'll be your BFF for life? They may then buy whatever you suggest afterwards.
    As list owners and email marketers, we make promises to our new subscribers.

    Some of them are explicit.

    Others are implicit.

    What we promise to send them if they join our list is the explicit bit.

    The more important part, one that's often harder to define very clearly, is the implicit promise - that you'll give them stuff of 'value'.

    Inherent in the difficulty is HOW to define 'value'.

    And list owners are also, in a sense, groping in the dark here. We're always in 'testing' mode. We rely on metrics to guide us.

    What emails elicit the most response?
    Clicks?
    Actions?
    Sales?
    Profits?

    Which are badly received?
    Unsubscribes?
    Complaints?
    Rants?
    Posts (like this one) on forums?

    And the smarter email marketers are guided by their RESULTS.

    Not opinions. Not guesses. Not feelings.

    Hard numbers.

    Analyzed in the context of their list marketing STRATEGY.

    True, many just wing it, and hope for the best.

    But the 'experts' do what they do with email marketing for a reason...

    IT WORKS!

    Learn by observation and introspection.

    Verify by testing and measurement.

    Adopt by effectiveness and results.

    My 2 cents (from 15+ years of doing this stuff!)

    All success
    Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author Vikky B
    Originally Posted by asiancasanova View Post

    I sign up to a lot of lists, sometimes I want their freebie, sometimes I'm just curious.

    99% of the time, I get inundated with crap.

    What kind of crap?

    A plethora of offers. "Check this offer out!"

    And every single e-mail in their funnel is like this.

    Why not provide a little more value? Why not build a relationship.

    Its not bad to promote *GOOD* offers, I promote stuff too of course. But damn guys, be a little selective?

    And give your list some breathing room and offer value in between offers. Something that they can actually use and make a little moola off of. Why not?

    If you help someone make money without making them pay for ****, don't you think they'll be your BFF for life? They may then buy whatever you suggest afterwards.
    I tried that. Got some guy who unsubscribed - and said the following - 'Don't like seller. Basically, I'm looking to make money, not to make friends'

    All I did was send some free material on using autoresponders.

    Oh well...
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