I'm a little upset - Do you really want to be sold hype?

by Andyhenry 59 replies
Hi Warriors,

I've been giving a LOT of thought (maybe too much) to what the best ways to help IMers are.

I've tried lots of ways over the years, from giving money, to positive feedback, negative feedback, stepping back to the big picture, and even going right into the techy details.

It seems that there's always someone who can benefit from each method, but what is concerning me lately is that the majority of people getting into IM seem to have no plan, and while I may think that their absolute best move would be to take a step back, think about their goals and their family and consider what they REALLY want from getting started in IM, and how they honestly think they can best move forward - Most of them seem to want to be fed BS and false promises of wealth and glory.

Sometimes people have no interest in looking at their business model and just want to be told 'the secrets' to traffic generation, rss, blogs, etc. etc.

I recently spoke to some fellow warriors in Singapore about what IMers in their region would most benefit from if I were to put on an event there. The answer surprised me.

It was clear that all of the sensible advice I thought they could benefit from would be useful - but it was clear that to get them to come to an event it would need to be the standard "achieve your financial dreams on the Internet" pitch.

One warrior (Kelvin) came up with a great analogy for it. He said it's like when your dog is ill and needs medicine - you put the medicine in his food so that he'll eat it because he's so greedy for food but wouldn't take the medicine on its own - regardless of how good you know it is for him.


Is this a global thing? do people really just want to be sold dreams?

Maybe my copywriting head is on another body and I just haven't thought of a way to say things sensibly and describe real value in a non-hypey way.

I'd much rather sell the steak than the sizzle since I don't want to make money selling sizzle when I'm trying to feed hungry people a stake.

I'm deadly serious about this.

There are enough bad vibes about seminars around due to the sales-pitches that often go under the name of seminar. I would like to change the trend and really get people the help they need but if they really don't want to hear it - Maybe I should change my focus and stop trying to find ways to help them.

Any ideas?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #hype #sold #upset
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    You sell the actual sizzler, but just show the sizzle on your copy!

    Sizzle doesn't last long though, especially when the customers get their hands on the sizzler!

    That's the way it works!
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    • Profile picture of the author Phil Jacobson
      Liked that post a lot. cool signature too. this really strikes a chord with me.

      I have a feeling that the time might be right for this form of marketing.
      Why on earth not? I'd like to hope that the cream rises to the top even in something like Internet Marketing.

      There are some similarities in hype between IMers and MLMers don't you think?
      I've always wondered why MLM people are so "Sell the dream" but often don't treat it like a business. They mostly frown upon any other kind of business model.

      I'm guilty of going for hype because a part of me thought it was "a necessary evil" perhaps or just "the done thing". I know that hype has magically attracted the credit card into my hand a number of times.

      But you know. There are a few people I really trust online.
      I haven't shaken their hands but through their consistent honesty (walking their talk, fulfilling promises) have built integrity within my mind that deserves my trust. They don't rely on hype and keep things at luke warm temperatures even in sales pages. They are using the cool words that get your attention but it just doesn't smell of hype. I love those kinds of marketers.


      Andy. Keep going with this because I think there is plenty of room for that kind of thinking.

      And no. I don't want to be sold hype either. Sure, presentation is important but not hype.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      The sizzle works because people generally make decisions
      based on emotional response then justify them using logic.
      Granted the logic is skewed by the emtions.

      So... sell the seminar with sizzle then provide them the
      steak once they're seated at the table.

      Or... as I've always told my network marketing friends...

      Meet them where the are then lead them to where they need to be.

      Tsnyder
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      • Profile picture of the author k0zm0zs0ul
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        The sizzle works because people generally make decisions
        based on emotional response then justify them using logic.
        Granted the logic is skewed by the emtions.

        So... sell the seminar with sizzle then provide them the
        steak once they're seated at the table.

        Or... as I've always told my network marketing friends...

        Meet them where the are then lead them to where they need to be.

        Tsnyder
        oh, good quote! lol I like that.
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        • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
          "Meet them where the are then lead them to where they need to be."

          Yes perfectly put.

          Hype is completely unecessary. Use facts and exceptional offers...it's far more compelling.

          But you do need to appeal to the emotions of your prospect.

          People buy for emotional reasons and justify their purchase with logical reasons so a good sales letter will deal with both sides...the emotions and the logic.

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Andy,
            One warrior (Kelvin) came up with a great analogy for it. He said it's like when your dog is ill and needs medicine - you put the medicine in his food so that he'll eat it because he's so greedy for food but wouldn't take the medicine on its own - regardless of how good you know it is for him.
            Fighting the basic human urge in this case, or any other, is likely to lead to nothing but a large aspirin bill.

            This is something I've preached for years, although I only rarely come right out and say it. When I do, it goes something like this:

            Sell them what they want.
            Give them what you sold them.
            Sneak in what they really need.

            I believe you've seen my report, "The Fortune at Your Fingertips." It's sold more copies than any of my short reports, and much faster. The title and some of the copy appeal to the "instant riches" crowd, even though there's nothing instant about it. I show folks what they have available to them, and that is more than enough to cover the title.

            The thing that always surprises me with this one is that people "get" the important lessons from it. Even the more advanced folks who read it find goodies they usually hadn't considered.

            You CAN use the tendency to want the instant riches to teach people what they really need to know. You just have to consciously approach the work from that perspective.

            As long as you use all three parts of the formula above, you're completely clean on the sale, too. And they love it.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author jordanwarrior
              Ya Baby,

              About high time somebody put a thread like this on the forum. I have been in IM all of 3 months. It took about 3 hours to figure out that MOST information being doled out is complete and utter SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT, sorry for the cussing, I feel a whole lot better now. And another 3 seconds to find out that you gotta work yourself to death to get anywhere. The sad story is that people, I know a few, just keep buying, buying, buying, buying, buying.and BUYING more of this $&!T.
              Basically wherever I turned, there was something there to bang my head against. Whatever, I am sure you get the point.
              Another one just came out called Commission Blueprint, I'm sure you all got an email in your inbox saying hurry, hurry, hurry. And some more BS about making $500,000 in so and so much time. It's actually funny. As the "gurus" each get wind of some new junk to sell, I get an email with basically the same message, having signed up for 4 or so in my dumber days.
              So, thanks Andy for the post. If you do have advice for a newbie please let it be known.
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              • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
                The reason why the majority buy on hype and big promises is because the majority of people are looking to be entertained.

                People like the IDEA of becoming wealthy. Being someone with options. Someone with power, prestige and influence.

                The majority don't like the PROCESS, though.

                This is why "blueprints", "secrets", and "blackbooks" sell so well. They're compelling and carry the IDEA of potential. Even though many people internally don't truly intend on doing what's necessary.

                Turnkey "opportunities" sell even better. Instant gratification mixed with "push-button" systems is a brainless decision for a "thrill" seeker. The potential results are even closer - the mental image of wealth (and what they think it brings) is right in front of them.

                In their perception, anyway.

                However - development tools, templates and otherwise work tools won't generate as much excitement. At least not from the "masses". Because, obviously, they imply work.

                The same goes for products or courses based on processes and methods that require confidence, effort and "charisma".

                You'll never find the solution to this problem, Andy.

                And that's because it's not a problem.

                It's a demographic.

                The "solution" is to reach them where they're at, show them the reality of what needs to happen and then work with the ones who are actually committed to DO something with it.

                Which is very few.

                But that's okay.

                Because the few that actually take action based on your advice will see life-changing results.

                -Chris
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            • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Sell them what they want.
              Give them what you sold them.
              Sneak in what they really need.
              Paul, this sounds wonderful. But who decides what they really need?


              .
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              • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

                Paul, this sounds wonderful. But who decides what they really need?


                .
                That's the killer.

                Only THEY really know what's best for them, so all anyone else can do is get them to open their mind enough to realise that they have more choices available than they realise, so that THEY can see what would be the best way forward for them, rather than buying in to every model someone tells them makes money and making their journey much longer or indeed neverending.

                There are a lot of things which with a little business knowledge, a little marketing knowledge, some common-sense and a positive mind can crank peoples results up to a completely different level - but if their head is stuck in following a poor strategy because they don't know any better, they may not even have noticed that the stuff they're doing will never get them to their real goals.

                Some people think you have to ignore your family and keep telling them that the money will come soon, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. Then when they're not making money and their family are holding them accountable - they get angry at their family!

                This is the thing about IM. There's so many people telling others how to do it that people quickly forget that THEY need to be involved in the decision making process and just doing whatever some random person tells them to is not the best way to build anything, especially if that person has no idea of what your goals are or your idea of success.

                So, while it's easy to tell people what to do, people will only be really successful if they've been part of the process (while in a 'proper' frame of mind where they have their actual goals and a well-formed outcome in mind).

                Many people are spending their time focused on doing things they don't enjoy - if they get 'successful' they'll end up in another type of job where they are looking for a way out to replace the income.

                So, while I 'could' tell people what to do - I have no interest in telling them what they should do, but I love educating people about what their options are and helping them remove artificial obstacles which are preventing them get perspective and move forward.

                Ultimately success is a personal thing and people define it and reach it in their own way - It's just a little too common that they're looking for someone else to provide it.

                I think you can break this down into very simple concepts but it still ends up being a personal thing as everyone has different perspectives and preferences. Making money is the primary focus for a lot of people since they get into IM by trying to get away from things they don't like (money problems, bad jobs etc..). It's understandable.

                Andy
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                nothing to see here.

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                • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
                  I can't remember where I heard this, and I've paraphrased it a bit:

                  A man will rarely get of his arse for what he needs,
                  The same man will walk over hot coals for what he wants.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

                    I can't remember where I heard this, and I've paraphrased it a bit:

                    A man will rarely get of his arse for what he needs,
                    The same man will walk over hot coals for what he wants.
                    Karl, this is so true. I am more motivated by the things I want than the things
                    I need.

                    I want good health because I don't like feeling like crap. So to that end, I
                    eat right, exercise, get plenty of sleep and try like the devil (though
                    sometimes unsuccessfully) to stay calm.

                    But it took getting sick in the first place to realize how much my health
                    meant to me.
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

                Paul, this sounds wonderful. But who decides what they really need?
                Within the context of a product, you do.

                Remember, we're not talking about trying to teach them everything at once, or selling them on a specific goal or course of action. Not anyone in this thread yet, anyway.

                Deciding what they actually need is done based on what they tell you they want - by buying your product or signing up for your newsletter or visiting your blog. When they tell you, "I want X," you can make some reasonable conclusions about what it will take for them to get it.

                As an example, suppose I create a report on selling products for more money by increasing the perceived value of the offer. Delivering on the promise is easy. And that's what they would buy it for: Making more money per sale. The "Easy Button."

                I could easily do that report and sell it with just that: Tips on improving perceived value.

                A report like that could also include steps and ideas that taught the reader how to craft a better offer, focus more on the actual value delivered to the customer, improve retention and reduce refunds, write more customer-focused copy, and create better products.

                You could do all of that within the context of the promise, and do it in such a way that they'd learn and be able to apply those things in other areas.

                That's how you sneak in what they need, while delivering what they want.


                Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                  That's a great example Paul, nice and subtle too.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    Andy,
                    That's a great example Paul, nice and subtle too.
                    Thanks. The example was easy, as I've already written that report.

                    You pretty much have to be subtle about the "what they need" part. Bashing them over the head with something like, "Yeah, you bought it for this, but what you really need is..." isn't effective. If you tie sensible marketing practices into a specific strategy or technique, though, they look at it as more in-depth delivery of what they wanted, which it really is.

                    The response is really good when it's done right. Much more fun than arguing with people about what they really need, when what they care about is what they want.

                    I've found that it's always better to work with people's natural tendencies, rather than fighting basic human drives that are hard-wired. It's easier, more productive and more satisfying for everyone involved.


                    Paul
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                    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                      Absolutely.

                      I don't know why this became a complication for me lately, I suppose in the past I have just been helping people by telling them what they want to know and it's more recently that I've been combining my non-IM coaching mentality with IM and there's been an apparent disparity - which having thought about it is psychologically just the same but the frame of reference is different since IMers are not always starting because of a desire to get the best that they can, but more often than not, to get away from things they don't like.

                      The spin of selling dreams etc is just people pandering to what they know their audience want to hear, but it doesn't have to be anything more than correctly framing (ie. aligning with their target market) the offering in relation to the target audience.

                      I've now decided that if I just come from my original perspective of - I've tried just about everything there is, so if you're unclear about how to proceed then I can lay out your options, share my experience and give you some ways of thinking about how to approach effective use of IM for your own ends.

                      Strangely, I feel much better about the whole thing again now that I know I don't have to tell people fluff just to get them to listen to what I think will help them.

                      Thanks everyone for giving me your thoughts -it's helped a lot.

                      Regards,

                      Andy
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                      nothing to see here.

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            • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


              Sell them what they want.
              Give them what you sold them.
              Sneak in what they really need.
              Paul,

              You are getting traction on this one, but it is well deserved.

              That little thought lit up my day. Thank you.

              btw - For me, I change the last line to "Sneak in what you deem they really need."

              (People often need things I don't discern.)

              Michael
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              Know thyself...
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    • Profile picture of the author donnaletson
      Andy,

      I don't remember where I first found information about making money online, but I do remember that I thought it was pure BS because the site I had found was so full of hype. It sounded to good to be true and you know the saying.

      The idea of making money online intrigued me and I started searching and I found lots of hype, but I finally found Lynn Terry's selfstartersweeklytips.com. I think she shares your ideas of delivering sensible information. I know for myself that is what I was looking for. So to answer you question, I didn't and still don't want to be sold hype.

      Donna
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      Business and motivational seminars are just that, "Selling a Dream" and unfortunately, that is exactly how they are promoted.

      The primary benefit of these seminars are primarily about mingling and networking.

      The goal is to generate as much revenue as possible for the promoters and speakers.

      People do not want to hear the hard truth of how hard it is to make a living, much less a fortune at any business, including IM.

      They want the "Big Secrets", "Inside Track", and connections that come from attending these events.

      They want to be part of the crowd and draw from the energy of fellow aspiring Entrepreneurs.

      This is a rush at first, but when it comes down to the business building daily grind that soon follows, these same people will be looking for the next great speaker, or the next groundbreaking technique.

      IM opitimises the "easy money", "work at home in your pj's" illusion of entrepreneurialism.

      Unfortunately, for most, it will only be a dream.
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  • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
    Hey Andy,

    most people that I talk to just want everything
    instantly and be spoon fed too.

    It seems like a lot of them are getting caught up
    in the dream instead of really living it.

    --David
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    It was clear that all of the sensible advice I they could benefit from would be useful - but it was clear that to get them to come to an event it would need to be the standard "achieve your financial dreams on the Internet" pitch.
    Hey Andy

    It's marketing 101... people don't buy things... they buy the results those things give them.

    In this case, they won't buy "sensible advice", but they'll buy the "financial dreams" that advice will give them.

    What's to stop you selling the sizzle and providing the steak? That's how it's done right

    Cheers
    Kyle

    p.s. Hype is the most abused word in IM (followed closely by guru). What is hype? Hype = hyperbole = exaggeration...

    So if eveything you say is backed up by proof, and hence not exaggerated, guess what... IT'S NOT HYPE.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      hhhhmmm.

      While I understand the psychology behind selling, there's still something in me that feels like IMers could respond to 'reality IM'. Once people have spent money a few times and realised it's not as easy as "having a website to sell things from", I guess I'm assuming that they'll want the 'real' picture, but the promises of dreams seem to still get peoples buttons pressed even after they've been bitten a few times.

      Is it just that simple? You have to pump the pitch up in order to align with the way people want to feel?

      No reality check wanted/needed....?
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
        Well Andy these are the people that already know a lot of IM!

        And they are not probably your target audience because the refund rate is generally high in case of people who buy a course and then find that most of the knowledge is already there in their head!

        These people are generally on the verge of giving up... or they start selling themselves to realisze that almost all the information is available at the War room!

        So these people arew difficult to sell and hard to retain!

        I zero in on the people that are just starting!

        -Lakshay
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I have always stayed away from excessive hype on my sales pages.

        Does it cost me sales? Probably. But I get very few people email me after
        a purchase to tell me that my product was crap.

        I'm not judging others. Each one has to promote within their acceptable
        bounds. I only know what works for me and I'm content with the results
        from it.

        My first sales page had this line midway through.

        "Making Money Online Is The Hardest Thing You Will Ever Do"

        Now, while some may not agree with the statement, it is far from hype. And
        yet, that product sold 200 units a month for a year with only an 8% refund
        rate.

        So maybe you CAN sell the meat...if not as much of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        I would like to change the trend and really get people the help they need but if they really don't want to hear it - Maybe I should change my focus and stop trying to find ways to help them.

        Any ideas?
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        hhhhmmm.

        While I understand the psychology behind selling, there's still something in me that feels like IMers could respond to 'reality IM'. Once people have spent money a few times and realised it's not as easy as "having a website to sell things from", I guess I'm assuming that they'll want the 'real' picture, but the promises of dreams seem to still get peoples buttons pressed even after they've been bitten a few times.

        Is it just that simple? You have to pump the pitch up in order to align with the way people want to feel?

        No reality check wanted/needed....?
        I think you've answered your own question, Andy. If you're trying to assess the level of interest in 'Reality IM' then count me as one - but I don't know how many more of us there are.

        Peter
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

          I think you've answered your own question, Andy. If you're trying to assess the level of interest in 'Reality IM' then count me as one - but I don't know how many more of us there are.

          Peter
          You can count me in on that group as well. I detest hype with a passion.

          Just tell me what your product will do for me and what the benefits are.
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          • Profile picture of the author freedom40
            I work in the fitness industry as a personal trainer and one thing I've learned over the years is tell people what they want to hear and then give them what they need. Works like a charm!
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              We may claim that we're immune to the hype, but if we're human, we're all susceptible.
              Maybe not so much in our own industry, as we're so familiar with it, but certainly in other areas. Who hasn't ended up seeing a really crap movie just because of the hype? Or made some dodgy fashion decisions? (that sales assistant said the stripey shirt really suited me) It's clear that hype works.

              And the internet lends itself to hype like no other business. Because of its nature, it IS possible to make a lot of money in a relatively short time. There are people who HAVE become very wealthy by doing not very much - or at least not much that the average nine to fiver might consider to be hard work. These stories fuel the hype and encourage the dreamers. And let's not kid ourselves, there are well-known marketers amongst us who have made a mint by feeding these dreams.

              People look for the shortcuts; the easy route. It's psychology 101. It's not going to change any time soon.

              Maybe you should put on a seminar about personal development - get people into the right mindset - before they can begin to tackle a business, any business, in the best manner.

              Failing that, if you know you've got something really worthy to sell, hype it up. It's for their own good.

              Frank
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              I've just put Richard Branson's number on speed-dial. I call it my "Get-Rich-Quick" scheme.

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              • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
                The bulk of your audience will always be looking for the magic bullet. They will buy the sizzle over and over again. Most of them won't even unzip the files they bought. I know, I used to be one of them before I did something about it.

                TomG.
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                • Andy,

                  Why is it either-or? Isn't that a false dichotomy just because some people practice it that way?

                  I mean, what's wrong with selling steak with sizzle?

                  I personally want my steak with sizzle. If I have a choice of three places to eat:

                  1. Place that sells sizzle and lousy steaks,
                  2. Place that sells great steaks with little or no sizzle, or
                  3. Place that sells great steaks with mouth-watering sizzle,

                  I'll go with No. 3. I love great steaks and I love the sizzle.

                  It's all good when it's together.

                  Michael
                  Signature
                  Know thyself...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
                    Hi Andy,
                    Isn't it human nature that people want the hype and to believe the fantasy they can discover a magic method to making $10,000's overnight?
                    I know in my circle of friends many have asked if they could do IM too and replace their regular job but when reality hits home that they will need to do some work and that may include evening and weekends...well they usually just come up with an excuse and go back to their 'usually hated' 9-5 job!

                    Rich
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                    • Profile picture of the author Carl Henry
                      Hi ,

                      don't you think we should differentiate between 'hype' salesmanship and emphasising certain elements of our messages?

                      It seems that 'over-blowing' or even lying is universally abhorred, are we talking about big bold red headlines being hype or people using words like "KILLER" or "AMAZING" when normal English would do (& let the product speak for it's self)?

                      As someone wrote before 99% of people would not get of their backsides if they didn't feel that they could transform their lives with the minimum of effort....,

                      ... Perhaps that's our role, help them to make the transition from dreamers to action maniacs.

                      How's that for an ethical mission?

                      Carl Henry
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                      • Profile picture of the author X
                        Andy, you need to read Predictably Irrational.

                        Instant gratification, which is what buying hype
                        IS, is procrastination - I'll take that pint of Ben
                        and Jerry Ice Cream now and start my diet
                        tomorrow.

                        What I find extraordinarily amazing is that
                        people who bought a book I wrote 2.5 years
                        ago are raving about ideas shared TODAY by
                        others that they paid for two years ago.

                        Hell Andy, you paid $197 for my ebook and
                        you didn't have a clue who I was when I
                        offered to donate $250 towards your best
                        post effort last year. :-)

                        I guess that if we were REALLY interested in
                        people getting what we have to share, then
                        we wouldn't be selling the next thing but
                        continuing to POUND on the points we already
                        sold them.

                        BTW, where's the instant gratification on your
                        end with wanting people to just "get it"?

                        Maybe you'd just rather not have to work as
                        hard as you do to get people to buy into what
                        you know is good for them . . . I know I've
                        felt that way many times.

                        Inevitably that mirror thing is true: I don't like
                        seeing in others that thing I like least about me.

                        X

                        PS - I like Michael Stuart Kelly's post. Nothing
                        gets more attention in any restaurant than a
                        big plate of sizzling fajitas delivered to your
                        table in a Mexican restaurant. Same fajitas,
                        same taste - but that sizzle makes you want
                        'em more.

                        Wait, there's more:

                        Hype marketing is seduction marketing.

                        It's easy to seduce a weak-minded person.
                        Just say what they want to believe is
                        true. Then say what they want to believe is
                        true, then add a little more that they'll
                        associate with the truth.

                        You can't ask non-weak minded people if
                        they like hype - they're living above it.

                        But you have a world where people will
                        receive an email claiming "Barack Obama"
                        doesn't have an "American flag painted on
                        his campaign plane!" and a weak-minded
                        segment of the population declare that
                        means he's the un-American antichrist. I'm
                        not sure what it means that John McCain
                        doesn't have an American flag painted on
                        his plane either - that part is omitted.

                        I guess the point is you have to match the
                        message to the market: apparently hype is
                        what it takes to reach this market. Distort
                        the truth enough to match the hypnotic
                        trance the person is already in and you have
                        "Mass Control" - I wonder if people who buy
                        programs like Mass Control identify themselves
                        as a part of the mass that's being controlled?
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                        • Profile picture of the author KenJ
                          Hi andy
                          I have found the hype the biggest turn off in this IM market.

                          It has definitely stopped me buying into many WSO's. I mean really can you believe the claims they are making.

                          I will shortly be launching my first project and it will be completely no hype. If that fails then I may change my tack. But I am sure that a clear honest presentation of on offer will work just fine.

                          So look out for my product called how to make £2,000,000 in the next 10 seconds Only kidding!
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                          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                            Originally Posted by kenj View Post

                            Hi andy
                            I have found the hype the biggest turn off in this IM market.

                            It has definitely stopped me buying into many WSO's. I mean really can you believe the claims they are making.

                            I will shortly be launching my first project and it will be completely no hype. If that fails then I may change my tack. But I am sure that a clear honest presentation of on offer will work just fine.

                            So look out for my product called how to make £2,000,000 in the next 10 seconds Only kidding!
                            I don't know what your product is, but I decided the same thing on a product I launched last year (the IM niche). I told my copy writer that I don't like hype. The sales page was about as hype-free as you could get.

                            I launched to my list, and I had 2 or 3 "heavy hitters" also email on launch day. The results?

                            4 sales. Pitiful.

                            So, I stopped the launch and went back to my copy writer. He rewrote it WITH some (mild) hype. No lies, but added sizzle. I relaunched about a month later. The results?

                            3.5% conversion.

                            People like push buttons. If your product is NOT actually push button, you have to have some sizzle.

                            I think people come on line expecting things to be easy. When they find out it takes work, some will give up, some will keep looking for the easy way and some will actually understand this and put in the time and effort. Those are the ones you can concentrate on.

                            Mike
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                            • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
                              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                              I don't know what your product is, but I decided the same thing on a product I launched last year (the IM niche). I told my copy writer that I don't like hype. The sales page was about as hype-free as you could get.

                              I launched to my list, and I had 2 or 3 "heavy hitters" also email on launch day. The results?

                              4 sales. Pitiful.

                              So, I stopped the launch and went back to my copy writer. He rewrote it WITH some (mild) hype. No lies, but added sizzle. I relaunched about a month later. The results?

                              3.5% conversion.

                              People like push buttons. If your product is NOT actually push button, you have to have some sizzle.

                              I think people come on line expecting things to be easy. When they find out it takes work, some will give up, some will keep looking for the easy way and some will actually understand this and put in the time and effort. Those are the ones you can concentrate on.

                              Mike
                              Thanks Mike, interesting tested observation. That is an internal struggle I deal with a lot. Trying to avoid using hype but seems that is what sells. I just remember the old adage that I just must not be my target audience even though I'm in IM niche. :-)

                              I was wondering what is considered hype? If I use the H1 header in bold red font (At Last, Finally, etc.) but without the exaggeration of instant wealth...would that still be considered hype?
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                              • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
                                I think it's OK to sell the sizzle...just make damned sure the steak tastes really good.
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                                Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
                                  Very interesting post!

                                  I'll tell you the truth and how my IM case came to be.

                                  I got into IM about 2-3 months ago, and frankly I was sold by the hype and the dream. The first few things I looked into, just didn't seem right. While I confess that all the hype put me down a bit, I came to understand that it is required, especially in hyped up niches such as this.

                                  On the other hand, it actually made me a lot more "hype sensitive" as I like to call it, so I was able to identify and recognize what a potentially great offer looked like. This hype sensitivity eventually evolved into a "reality sensitivity" were I realized that to hack it, I would have to work my ass off for it, and I did.

                                  Now, I still consider myself a huge "newbie" (hence my avatar signature), however, a quite succesful one. I'm making around $5,000/Month through IM alone and I had no idea about it 3 months ago. I am sure I will become even more succesful as I continue to work my ass off.

                                  I consider the "hype" just a phase that everyone has to go through in order to evolve in any way.

                                  If you need to place that precious gem inside a hyped up offer in order to be able to "feed" it to the people who need help, so be it, that's the way things work.

                                  Daniel Molano
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                        • Originally Posted by X View Post

                          PS - I like Michael Stuart Kelly's post. Nothing
                          gets more attention in any restaurant than a
                          big plate of sizzling fajitas delivered to your
                          table in a Mexican restaurant. Same fajitas,
                          same taste - but that sizzle makes you want
                          'em more.
                          X,

                          LOL...

                          I lived in Brazil for 32 years. All over down there you can find open-fire barbecue restaurants where the waiters bring the meat on spits to your table and keep on bringing it until you cry, "Uncle!" The meat is great and there is nothing like that sizzle in the background. Nothing.

                          Transposing this to IM, I want to dream about riches if I am going to buy an Internet marketing system. Imagine getting this as the sales line:

                          "You have to work you ass off until you are cross-eyed from staring at a computer monitor and even then there are no guarantees. You might start seeing a buck in about 6 months, but that's only if you don't screw up."

                          OK. That was forcing it. Try this:

                          "Here you will find a complete system for learning everything you need to know about how to make money online. It comes with 52 videos (45 minutes each), 18 audio CD's (2 hours each), and 7 PDF files (about 300 pages each). You also get workbooks, Rolodex, a mindmap and several surprise bonuses. We proudly over-deliver! After you complete our course, we have no doubt you will be well-equipped to make a good living off the Internet."

                          Say what? Did I just see a ton load of work? I can count hours. Also, I might be so broke I don't even have the ink and paper to print out all that stuff. Sorry. There is no way in hell I'll buy that, especially if the bill collectors are pounding on my door.

                          Now if the ad says: "We have a secret key to unlock the gates to the Internet millionaire lifestyle and we want you to have it too. Look here at our latest earnings... yada yada yada..."

                          Sizzle... sizzle... sizzle... sizzle... sizzle...

                          I admit it. I'm drooling already. I'll even tell the bill collector to pipe down and keep his shirt on while I go hock my soul to pay for the course.

                          And if the course is good and makes me some short-term money (and gets the bill collector off me), ya think I'm going to buy more stuff off that guy? Especially if he keeps on sizzling? Shoot. He's got me. I'm owned.

                          Michael
                          Signature
                          Know thyself...
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                          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                            It's actually quite simple:

                            1. You sell people based on what they want...what will persuade them to buy.

                            2. You deliver on the promises you make in your copy but you focus on teaching them what they actually NEED to succeed which is usually different to what they want or think they need.

                            I know it sounds screwy but I have heard multiple marketers say exactly the same thing.

                            This method works in multiple niches, multiple industries and in life in general.

                            It's a method you would use with your children.

                            The reality is we're not too smart and we have a tendency to look for the instant solution or the magic pill.

                            Selling people on working their arses off for years to succeed is not too sexy.

                            But telling them they can make $1,500 this week, you have proof that many others just like them have made $1,500 their first week is far more likely to get you sales.

                            The integrity comes in delivering a product that will deliver on your promises AND is genuinely what your prospect needs.

                            I was chatting on Skype to David Cavanagh a couple of days ago and he was saying the biggest problem with most IM newbies is they just won't get off their arses and do some work.

                            Now I wouldn't put it that way but it is true.

                            So you need to think through where your prospect is at and get him motivated enough to get into action and go over those first few hurdles.

                            Kindest regards,
                            Andrew Cavanagh
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                            • Profile picture of the author myob
                              You have to have hype as part of the selling process, especially in a competitive market. Recently I went into a new car dealership after doing extensive internet research on a particular car I wanted. Even went to my bank and got preapproved for the loan on it. As a salesman, I was ready to match wits with the troupe of sales people and the sales manager you encounter when buying a new car.

                              After going through the sales hype, and different styles, price ranges, add ons, etc I finally said to the sales manager, "Look, I am a salesman myself and I know exactly what you're are doing. I want that [model], and I want to know if you can you meet or beat the [price] available on the internet."

                              The sales manager said, without hesitation, "Being such a smart salesperson yourself, you know value when you see it right? Here's what I'll do. If you buy from me today, I'm going to add [feature] and [feature] and [feature] and [feature] and [feature] and [feature] at no extra cost. You are already approved for the loan, right? All I need is your approval on this form."

                              Did I see through all this hype? You bet I did - every step of the way! But my point is, if the salesperson did NOT use hype, there would have been no sale. [Yes I did buy the car on the spot]

                              This process works the same online.
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                            • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
                              Andy,

                              There is a difference between hype and emotion. There must be or there wouldn’t be a need for two different words.

                              You and I buy emotions, plain and simple. And I'm not saying the same thing that we keep hearing. I'm not saying that we are sold by emotion... I am saying that we buy emotions.

                              We’re emotional creatures and we eat one thing. Feelings.

                              New Mercedes? You just bought some feelings. Brand new, still boxed, $900 barbeque for $150 at a closeout sale? You just bought some emotions. Shiny new Rolex? How’s that feel?

                              Someone above wrote something about people mistaking activity for achievement, as if the activity was the lesser of the two. Yet you and I both have heard that the ‘joy is in the journey’. Well, let me tell you something... the joy IS in the journey... and that’s one reason so many people make it a long one.

                              There is nothing wrong with selling the journey.
                              .
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                          • Profile picture of the author dv8
                            Originally Posted by Michael Stuart Kelly View Post

                            Try this:

                            "Here you will find a complete system for learning everything you need to know about how to make money online. It comes with 52 videos (45 minutes each), 18 audio CD's (2 hours each), and 7 PDF files (about 300 pages each). You also get workbooks, Rolodex, a mindmap and several surprise bonuses. We proudly over-deliver! After you complete our course, we have no doubt you will be well-equipped to make a good living off the Internet."

                            Say what? Did I just see a ton load of work? I can count hours. Also, I might be so broke I don't even have the ink and paper to print out all that stuff. Sorry. There is no way in hell I'll buy that, especially if the bill collectors are pounding on my door.
                            I can't stand hype.

                            In your example above, I actually would respond to that before some outrageous, over the top, same old same old headline.

                            But I guess I'm in the minority. That and the fact that since I read/learn about IM everyday, I am so tired of seeing the same things over and over again. Long sales letters are a perfect example. If I land on a page with a huge sales letter I either leave or just scroll to the bottom if it seems like something I may be interested in. I can't stand long sales letters. But they work, so...
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                            • Originally Posted by dv8 View Post

                              I can't stand hype.

                              In your example above, I actually would respond to that before some outrageous, over the top, same old same old headline.
                              dv8,

                              In Brazil they have weekly open-air farmer's markets in just about every city. The farmers (or resellers) come into a neighborhood, section off a street, set up stands, put their food for sale out and start hawking like there is no tomorrow. If I decided to sell tomatoes right beside the other 20 dudes selling tomatoes, I better hawk, too, if I want to sell.

                              If I had superior tomatoes but did not hawk, I would probably get one or two more discerning customers like you who put earplugs in and look only at the quality. But I would fail as a business. I would have to throw away most of my superior tomatoes.

                              That's reality. IM is like that.

                              To be honest, I was revolted by this at first, but I am starting to like the idea. Hawking can be a hoot if you let it be.

                              Michael
                              Signature
                              Know thyself...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
    HI Andy,

    Unfortunately I believe that this is the case with a lot of people.

    The majority of people, and I believe it would be global although I do not have any statistical data, are looking for immediate gratification. The problem is that they do not realize that nothing in life is immediate as it pertains to
    the pursuit of happiness, economic gain, personal growth and the like.

    When speaking with fellow constituents myself about this the same philosophy rang true.

    I believe the reason for this is two fold.

    1) People are envious of others who are successful. And these people who most often have a impulsive personality and are yearning to have the same success. These people can be the same age but more often than not are quite a bit younger by about 10 years or more. Their envious desires lead to false thought processes that are further fed by the successful peers feeding the hot button of "You too can Make $10,000 per month" by following these simple techniques.who is experiencing success just stumbled upon it. Now, not every sales pitch or the person pitching backs up the offer but the ones that do have worked for it. The lazy people have been blinded by all the hype and keep giving their money to those who understand the concept of work, determination, focus, time, energy, commitment.

    Unfortunately, these "pipe dream" chasers will always be "Chasing the Dream" and not living the dream because they focus and waste all of their time chasing the next "Magic bullet" rather than taking apart the gun they just purchased...examining it, seeing how it works, cleaning it and loading with the magic bullet that was already purchased for it and Firing it at the target.


    2) People are lazy. These same "pipe dream" chasers think that everyone who is successful simply stumbled upon it.
    They begin to enter into a cycle of worrying about everyone who is making money, how they can make the same money and jumping from one ban wagon to the next. Instead they need to focus on what needs to be done and how they are doing it. At the end of the day, this vast majority never "gets it". Success takes work...period.

    It takes work to put the toothpaste on the toothbrush, it takes work to shave, it takes work to clean the house, it takes work to get dressed...it takes work to make money. If you want to have successful relationships it takes work.

    As with a person suffering with an addiction...these people cannot be helped unless they help themselves first. The impulsive and lazy person will never get it until they realize that every aspect of life takes work.
    Now, the thought of having to work for that is lost somewhere between the "I can have the million dollar home" and "work 2 hours a day."

    At the end of the day....the 80/20 rule applies to successful people as well.

    80% of the lazy people give all of their money to
    to the successful people which make up
    20% percent of the population.

    These numbers may be off but you get the drift.

    Good Topic.
    Sean
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    • Profile picture of the author jam52633
      Interest post!

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      • Profile picture of the author jhongren
        Hey Andy, I think it is the same everywhere.

        People want to have the short cut to have their dreams fulfilled!

        Look at lottery, motivational workshops, self-help seminars and so on.

        They are always telling you "You can get what you want!"

        Many people buy into that.

        It is a worldwide trend.

        A person goes to another to say "You bury this magic stones under your bed and you are going to have a million dollars tomorrow."

        I am sure 9 out of 10 may more probably agree.

        When we are young, we are told of bed time stories, how someone achieve their dreams.

        Olympic is just over.

        Newspapers are splash of headlines "Blah blah has achieved his dream...or smash his dream."

        John
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        • Profile picture of the author Houcem Rihane
          One of the first things I learned about copywriting was "write to sell the people what they want and not what they need" and I have experienced myself how good this formula does work.
          In 99% of the cases, what people need and what people want isn't the same thing.
          Fact is that most of us is lazy...very lazy. We want the easy thing even if we know it's not the right thin to do and even if we know what we really should be doing.
          And then we try to justify our actions with things like I am still learning or this can't work and the potential is not big enough because everybody is doing it or...or...
          So to make it simple:
          If you want to help people and give them what they need, you will need to sell them what they want, convice them that what they want and what they need is the same thing (to get what you want you must get what you need and do it, but try to package it) and then give them what they need.
          Of course, there are people who don't want to learn and they will not. But there will be a minority that will definitely benefit from your effort.

          By the way, thanks for the attitude and...cool signature

          Houcem
          Signature

          ...

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      • Profile picture of the author Mickey Janzen
        I have to say that I'm one of those people that don't give two sh*ts about what's considered "awesome sales copy." That's not to say that it shouldn't read well but stuff like "my blank dances like John Travolta" is a sure-fire way of getting me not to read the rest.

        I don't want BS or hype. Valid points as to why/how your product/service will assist me in my business, an overview of the product/service and why you created it are essential. Sure, add some pretty words but make it believable.

        IM is not easy money. It requires just as much work in the beginning as any other job. Once you have your business set up, then time and effort is spent in continuous maintenance and promotion.
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        • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
          The frustrating thing is that since "hype" is the standard, if you don't pump your stuff up you are going to miss out on a lot of sales. If I made a salespage that just shared what the strengths were, sure it appeals to the more seasoned vets, but as far as new people, they are so use to everything being ultra-hyped.

          It's a lame situation, because I'm not the biggest fan of hype either and going through and really highlighting the positives "hyping" it up is challenging.

          Matt
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          • Profile picture of the author Mary Gallivan
            Hi Andy

            I'm another one who doesn't like the hype. I've seen so much in the past like 'make money while you sleep'; 'if you can cut and paste you can do this' - yeah right!! or 'even my grandma can do this'.

            Another thing I don't like is seeing a screenshot of how much money somebody made in a week/month - it could be anyone's!

            Get down to the nitty gritty. If there's work to be done then fine. Nobody makes a living without doing or having done some work, unless they are very priveliged.

            Now, if I was told when I started out just HOW MUCH work was involved then I might have thought twice about it. As it happens I work pretty hard because it's something I enjoy.

            Positive feedback or constructive criticism is good to help growth and development. While negatives seem to make some people work harder it has the opposite effect on me.

            Ok, not everyone has a plan when they get into IM - I certainly didn't because I sort of stumbled into IM. I could equate business plans to offline businesses but not online.

            Maybe people need to be told the basics from the outset. You need a plan, this is what to do. There's work involved, how much work depends on personal circumstances, how passionate and determined you are and how much you envisage making. Money isn't made overnight, it takes time and effort.

            People don't realise that the ones making the big money have been doing it for years, that's maybe too much of a generalisation, but they started out much the same as the rest of us.

            If it's for a coaching ot training session maybe you could offer 2 pieces of information. Say, a sales letter or such. One with all the BS and the other without, just the nitty gritty facts and see which they prefer. Don't mention the purpose of what you want the information for, simply, which one do they prefer?

            That would give you a good idea of what people are after.

            Best wishes

            Mary
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        • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
          It appears hype is what moves people to buy in droves. You look at the big dogs they all use hype. If you look at the top marketing products on ClickBank they all use the hype method of easily making money online.

          There is a sub niche within the IM niche who prefer straight talk, no hype, case studies vs theory, etc. That's what I like.

          But hype is huge selling tactic for just about everything. Do you want to lose weight? Eat less and exercise more and you will lose weight. But nope people want the magic pill or the latest diet fad and they pay money for it. Same thing is happening here. Hard work? Hell no, I'll just buy one more course that will make all this money without having to work. Here is my $97. :-)

          One of the reasons I haven't attended any seminars is because I don't want to be sold hype but you and I might be in the minority. :-)
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          • Profile picture of the author Andrew Wilson
            Maybe there is room for two versions of a product, or two sales pages for the same product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Carl Henry
    Hi Andy,

    I really think that because the internet is so omnipresent & available to many people it seems like a way to escape for the masses.

    But most people are used to a fixed amount of effort and a guaranteed return, in order to make extraordinary efforts they need the hope of spectacular results..., I know it is difficult for people with high ethics to package solid advice & training in 'fluff' & dreams.

    Perhaps the answer is to package the potential outcomes in a more factual way - you could explain exactly how much a Ferrari costs (for example), upkeep, insurance etc. then show them how they would have to work & what they would have to achieve in hard numbers & solid actions to own one...,

    Just a thought,

    Carl Henry
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Originally Posted by Jeff Hope View Post

    allows someone to mistake activity for achievement!
    Jeff
    I believe this is big problem in the World right now with almost every aspect of life not just with the people who dream of being rich.

    Mistaking activity for achievement.

    "I wish I could spend more time in the gym it's just too hard but I'm trying".
    "I would really like to start eating right but for some reason it's not getting done but I'm trying"....

    When I decided to quit smoking I just stopped. I run into people all the time who say " I've been trying to quit and I wish it was that easy for me".

    That bothers me because they are assuming that it was easy for me to quit. That it's not hard for me. It's been four years and I still have the cravings from time to time. It's work.

    People also don't really understand the power of their own language.

    "I'm trying". Starting something and quitting is not trying. If I try to beat my son in a foot race and he wins as long as I don't give up and cross the line then I tried.

    I meet a lot of people who are proud of the fact that they can multi-task and get a lot done. But when you look at the results you see poor quality of work.

    Again, believing that quantity takes a higher priority over quality when it comes to being successful at achieving something.

    So, without drifting off on a tangent, I see many of these types of actions as a sign of real confusion.

    While it's true that there are a lot of lazy people out there that want everything handed to them, I would like to give a lot of the people the benefit of the doubt and say that they just don't understand what it takes to accomplish anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Hillage
    I think you are 100% correct Andy - people love hype as it's easy and quick fix and they don't need to do much. Much like dieters buying the next Atkins diet buzz, Gi diet etc. they can buy the books and the products do absolutely NOTHING but still feel good - for about 10 minutes! The best way for me is to offer the information and then the real magic is in the follow up support you can offer. I try to offer real follow up support with my subscribers - and the people I learn most from tend to actually give me a real email answer when I need it (not just an AR message).
    Thanks
    John
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