HELP- Insane Client Not Getting The Message.

by Damien Roche 10 replies
OK, so I have this client I am currently working with. Really nice guy, bit naive to best marketing practice on the internet....

absolutely DETERMINED to screw himself over by employing blackhat techniques..and guess who the driver is?- ME!

Obviously, I am in no way advocating the use of any blackhat techniques and haven't even considered using any. But my client is hung up on taking the 'easy route', not understanding that it leads to a cliff.

He is the MD of quite a large organization and this is my first 'real' opportunity to drive a company's internet marketing activities but I can't give in.

His latest idea is to use auto-submission software to submit classifieds to Craigslist. I know it's not true blackhat, it's just stupid, in his case at least...

But here's where the Warriors come in (Did I ever say I love you guys)..

I invite anyone and everyone to come up with as many reasons or pieces of evidence you can which plays against auto-submitters for Craigslist (not semi-submitters).

This isn't just to attempt to sway my client but also to help people who are undecided whether to spend a wad on the latest software.

Thanks,

Damien.

PS. I'd like to keep this two-sided and unbiased so if anyone has any good things to say about auto-submitters (with regards to Craigslist), please make yourself know.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #client #insane #message
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
    Hope nobody minds- I added a poll to this thread should be interesting.
    Signature
    >> Seasoned Web Developer (CSS, JavaScript, PHP, Ruby) <<
    Available for Fixed Fee Projects and Hourly ($40/hr)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53862].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      It's not a bad idea IF you are doing it right and providing great info for the folks you market to. The idea of Craigslist spam, or spam in general is pretty much nobody wants it yet there it is...

      I guess you should be able to sleep at night if you're helping people. Just don't go insane with it.

      Also, I just picked up some of that CL posting software and returned it a few days later. Honestly not for me. I don't have the brainspace to buy dial up or a Sprint card and have all those IP's/gmail accounts...

      Lots to play with on those auto posters. Lots to play with
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53874].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
        I take it you've already tried to sway him away. If so, then you'll probably have to do it. Here's what will happen:

        You'll get 2, maybe 3 ads in. You'll get a few clicks.
        Then -bam- you'll get ghosted. Eventually, you'll get banned.The company's phone number and website address will be 'blacklisted' in Craigslist.
        It will quickly go to zero clicks for every single ad you submit.
        Zero ROI.

        In the end, you'll be paid for submitting. Once you show your invoice, he will get the message quickly.
        Signature


        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53901].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
          Not worth it. Any gains (if any at all) will be short-lived before he's banned and black listed as a spammer.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53922].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
          I no I won't. He can't make me! Tell me he can't make me!!

          On a serious note...not that I have a huge reputation or anything, but I'm not willing to sacrifice any work I have done in the past for something like this.

          I convinced him to 'build' a list instead of mass mail to a un-opted list. He was in the clouds, I'm sure. I simply have to sway him. Hopefully he'll settle for a 'semi-submitter' - I think I saw a thread where "Khemal" said he built one. More of a tool.

          I can't let him go but if I refuse and he finds someone else to do this, they could potentially replace me completely.

          Thanks for the possible scenarios. I think the negative, 'long-term', implications is the only thing making him question his judgment.

          If anyone else has any good/bad points about auto-submitters, I'd like to hear 'em.

          Thanks.
          Signature
          >> Seasoned Web Developer (CSS, JavaScript, PHP, Ruby) <<
          Available for Fixed Fee Projects and Hourly ($40/hr)
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53927].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
            Maybe Craigslist was a great place before to get tons of easy leads, and I understand some people still are successful with it, but you should know that it is so much harder to do now then it was before. The people that make a go of it really spend a lot of time perfecting their technique. You would be in for a long battle with craigslist.

            Matt
            Signature

            WarriorForum Rules!

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53942].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author LB
              I would argue that it is blackhat.

              Using technology to circumvent the user agreement terms and technical boundaries setup by Craigslist as well as overriding the "spirit" and purpose of the site for personal gain...to me, that's blackhat.

              I have a particular disdain for CL spammers as the site itself is excellent and draws great response...and it's free! So it's hard to argue that whole "screwing the man" angle that spammers love to use.

              Additionally, from a corporate perspective there is always the potential for a lawsuit not to mention that his company gets "outed" for spamming CL.

              It's dumb.
              Signature
              Tired of Article Marketing, Backlink Spamming and Other Crusty Old Traffic Methods?

              Click Here.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53981].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            What did he HIRE you to do? If it was to apply your knowledge and experience to build his business - insist that he let you do that.

            If your feeling is "I can't lose him" - he'll pick up on that and argue with you every step of the way. If you are sure of your own abilities, you'll refuse to debate methods you know are underhanded and damaging. Give him the reason his ideas won't work - and don't argue it further. If he insists on it, let him try it himself and when he's banned try to bail him out.
            If there is a good solution to semi-automate you might offer to do a small test for him to see how it goes.

            If he won't follow your advice, and insists on using methods you know will cause him problems - might as well lose him. In the end, he'll blame you for bad results anyway.

            You're right - he can't make you. Unless you'll do anything to keep him as a client.

            kay
            Signature

            Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[53994].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              What did he HIRE you to do? If it was to apply your knowledge and experience to build his business - insist that he let you do that.

              If your feeling is "I can't lose him" - he'll pick up on that and argue with you every step of the way. If you are sure of your own abilities, you'll refuse to debate methods you know are underhanded and damaging. Give him the reason his ideas won't work - and don't argue it further. If he insists on it, let him try it himself and when he's banned try to bail him out.
              If there is a good solution to semi-automate you might offer to do a small test for him to see how it goes.

              If he won't follow your advice, and insists on using methods you know will cause him problems - might as well lose him. In the end, he'll blame you for bad results anyway.

              You're right - he can't make you. Unless you'll do anything to keep him as a client.

              kay
              Some very good points there, Kay. Thank you.

              Well, I can lose him, I just say that because it would be a shame to miss out on this opportunity. But I fear if he doesn't hand over the reigns with this then I'll have to bail.

              He is where I was 3 years ago and very enthusiastic and naive about how 'apparently' easy it is to dominate any marketing activity with sheer brain fluff...I feel this overwhelming urge to guide him a little, if you will.

              But you're right, this is what he is hiring me to do and do I shall. He should really stick to what he knows and let me get on with what I know.

              Thankfully, I'm NOT willing to do anything to keep him as a client. But I think I'll stick it a while longer yet. Still lots of 'whitehat' methods he wants me to work on.

              Thanks.
              Signature
              >> Seasoned Web Developer (CSS, JavaScript, PHP, Ruby) <<
              Available for Fixed Fee Projects and Hourly ($40/hr)
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[54028].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Originally Posted by Damien Roche View Post

                Some very good points there, Kay. Thank you.

                Well, I can lose him, I just say that because it would be a shame to miss out on this opportunity. But I fear if he doesn't hand over the reigns with this then I'll have to bail.

                He is where I was 3 years ago and very enthusiastic and naive about how 'apparently' easy it is to dominate any marketing activity with sheer brain fluff...I feel this overwhelming urge to guide him a little, if you will.

                But you're right, this is what he is hiring me to do and do I shall. He should really stick to what he knows and let me get on with what I know.

                Thankfully, I'm NOT willing to do anything to keep him as a client. But I think I'll stick it a while longer yet. Still lots of 'whitehat' methods he wants me to work on.

                Thanks.
                Damien, here's a word of advice for you:

                DOCUMENTATION

                Keep detailed notes about meetings, dates, who suggested/demanded what.

                That way, if the company does get dragged into some legal action, you have at least some protection.

                Document what you do, who's idea it was, and any reservations you voiced.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[54108].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics