Services Delivered, Buyer later Disputes, Win PayPal and Now They Try to Use a Visa Cashback

11 replies
I am selling promo codes and legal documents.

The Buyer paid via Paypal, an email was sent to them with the promo codes and all the documents attached.

Almost immediately the Buyer claims "services not delivered" and makes a Paypal Claim.

I tried to "work it out" by commenting everything was delivered and 'intangible' on the Paypal site. I also sent another email to the Buyer explaining they received all services (no reply from them).

I won the Paypal claim.

Next day the Buyer does a cashback on his visa card.

The problem is, this has happened a few times before...nearly identical situations.

Each time, I win with Paypal but lose with Visa despite showing my email replies and that services were delivered.

Any advice on how to win this? Or to at least have a system to stop this from happening again?

Thanks.
#buyer #cashback #delivered #disputes #paypal #services #visa #win
  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I try to always communicate with my Paypal team in instances like this to make sure they understand the person was being dishonest. I know that I have contributed to people losing their paypal accounts, and I don't hesitate to make a full report and follow up by phone with paypal. Failing to report them means this person can repeat this again and again.
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    It is okay to contact me! I have been developing software since 1999, creating many popular products like phpLD.
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    • Profile picture of the author billthelord
      Yes, I will definitely do this.

      I also have had it up to here being defrauded. The money is over $100 each time.

      My issue isn't with Paypal, as in all cases of the fraud, Paypal has gone in my favor.

      The problem is the Buyers know to ignore Paypal and go to Visa, and each time I've lost even after providing lots of proof.

      In one case, the Buyer paid and used the services for over a month. I had over 10 emails back and forth with him "helping him use the services"(!)

      I still lost.

      Maybe the solution is mailing something (instead of going 100% intangible).
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      • Profile picture of the author onSubie
        Originally Posted by billthelord View Post

        Maybe the solution is mailing something (instead of going 100% intangible).
        Yes, this can be very helpful and is one option used by sbucciarel to protect her PLR websites.

        She copies all the web files to a disk and ships it with signature required. She allows the buyer to redirect the DNS and use the domain, but she doesn't actually transfer ownership until receipt of the physical product delivery.

        She has some other great tips on her blog. They are written for website flipping but many ideas could be applied to any digital product.

        What You Can Do About “Paypal Dispute Ripoff Artists” | Domaining Diva

        Mahlon
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        • Profile picture of the author billthelord
          Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

          Yes, this can be very helpful and is one option used by sbucciarel to protect her PLR websites.

          She copies all the web files to a disk and ships it with signature required. She allows the buyer to redirect the DNS and use the domain, but she doesn't actually transfer ownership until receipt of the physical product delivery.

          She has some other great tips on her blog. They are written for website flipping but many ideas could be applied to any digital product.

          What You Can Do About "Paypal Dispute Ripoff Artists" | Domaining Diva

          Mahlon
          Thanks for this and the other helpful replies.

          All the hard work put in, then the scammers come...really discouraging!
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by billthelord View Post

        Maybe the solution is mailing something (instead of going 100% intangible).
        ^^^ This, unfortunately.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Alan
          It's is a problem that plagued the Internet since it began. When dealing with a credit card company if you're selling an intangible product you can't win. There is no proof the product was delivered to the actual card holder.



          The problem is now a lot of folks know this and buy stuff with the intention of never paying for it. There is not much you can do about it if they keep doing it eventually their credit card company will bring the hammer down on them. If the loss is significant enough you can always take them to small claims court.
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          Crazy Cheap Hosting Get Hosting for less than $2 per month + Free Domain Name Registration. Get Free SEO, Blogging and Internet Marketing Tips from the Solo Blogger.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Consider packaging all your evidence together in a pdf file in a manner where it can be quickly provided to Visa directly, or by PayPal, and which makes is clear the product was delivered.

    From the get-go I state this is a fraudulent buyer who ordered and received a digital product, but if there is any question about receipt here is the download link where the buyer can again access their purchase.

    I am selling ... legal documents
    Apparently, not good enough legal documents for you to use yourself despite repeatedly having this problem - where you can tell the fraudster if they happen to get a chargeback their $20 refund is going to mushroom into a $2000+ lawsuit once costs and fees are tacked on.

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author fedor50
    Originally Posted by billthelord View Post

    I am selling promo codes and legal documents.

    The Buyer paid via Paypal, an email was sent to them with the promo codes and all the documents attached.

    Almost immediately the Buyer claims "services not delivered" and makes a Paypal Claim.

    I tried to "work it out" by commenting everything was delivered and 'intangible' on the Paypal site. I also sent another email to the Buyer explaining they received all services (no reply from them).

    I won the Paypal claim.

    Next day the Buyer does a cashback on his visa card.

    The problem is, this has happened a few times before...nearly identical situations.

    Each time, I win with Paypal but lose with Visa despite showing my email replies and that services were delivered.

    Any advice on how to win this? Or to at least have a system to stop this from happening again?

    Thanks.
    You do really have to be careful when handling business transactions through paypal.It is very easy to get scammed if you're not careful about what you're doing
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    I would only accept payment from PayPal verified ...

    I do not like accepting CC payments.

    They really cannot open a dispute for 14 days. I would send a signature required letter VIA USPS with the access codes.
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  • Yep, chargebacks with CC companies will win every single time.

    Even with proof, even with documentation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Meharis
    Originally Posted by billthelord View Post

    I am selling promo codes and legal documents.

    The Buyer paid via Paypal, an email was sent to them with the promo codes and all the documents attached.

    Almost immediately the Buyer claims "services not delivered" and makes a Paypal Claim.

    I tried to "work it out" by commenting everything was delivered and 'intangible' on the Paypal site. I also sent another email to the Buyer explaining they received all services (no reply from them).

    I won the Paypal claim.

    Next day the Buyer does a cashback on his visa card.

    The problem is, this has happened a few times before...nearly identical situations.

    Each time, I win with Paypal but lose with Visa despite showing my email replies and that services were delivered.

    Any advice on how to win this? Or to at least have a system to stop this from happening again?

    Thanks.
    Maybe be you could try using "Kunaki" dot com
    If I were you I'll get a programmer to write you a program for:
    1. Send the product with a Serial Code.
    2. Customer request an unlocking code for that item.
    Buyer have to send email have to from same address was purchased.
    3. System receive request and send the code to buyer.
    4. Buyer receive code and enter into the system. When Files are unloaded
    will ask buyer to click on "Start Now".
    System will kept registration that the file was unloaded from IP xxx yyy zzzz.
    I'm almost sure there's a software already doing it.
    Otherwise, go ahead and do it yourself make some money.
    Cheers,

    Maharis
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