IM Guru Said: "I can't promote that!"

97 replies
Seriously I recently produced a WSO/product in the make money niche that has done quite well so far...

Before I launched I sent the product to a very well known high paid Internet Marketer, asking if he would take a look at it and promote my product.

The reply was a shocker...

First up he said that he loved the product as far as the education and strategy was concerned but he didn't like my personal bio which was largely about my history and more to the point - drug/alcohol addiction.

His words were:

"Your product and system is good but your personal bio is terrible. Why are you telling people about drug addiction? This does nothing for you or your product accept affect your credibility as an Internet Marketer. You need to delete that whole section if you want to stand a chance of building a grand reputation. In fact you have damaged it already by telling me. I can't promote your product"

In contrast to his statement I see hugely successful business like Brenden Burchard and Rich Shefren who actually use their histories and backgrounds as a foundation for their businesses. These are the guys that know how to build a business, help other people and do it with conviction.

Granted neither of those examples are quite as extreme as the one I am telling but really...

Does my story tarnish my reputation?

To be honest I will continue to stay true to my history and tell people because it is in fact my greatest strength.

As a result of my poor choices all those years ago I have learned more about myself than I ever would have had I taken a cleaner and more formal path, and I met the mother to my child in a rehab! We are a close family, clean, sober and loving.

And my entire approach to Internet Marketing is based on a life of recovery, truth and commitment - to never give up.

So, my mind won't be changed regardless of the replies I might get on this thread but I wonder if anyone else shares their difficulties and hardships in their online content. If so what are your outcomes? Do you regret it? Do you advise it? What are they?

God knows this world if full of sufferings, just switch on CNN. You can't hide that!

Mental health, abuse, racism, hatred etc. So much of this is in our world. We have to live this way, accept and challenge when we need to and be true to ourselves all along the way.


To Our Success

Marcus Rockey
#guru #i cant promote that
  • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
    I don't think you should hide it, because reading stories like this is very inspirational.
    I still remember when I started in IM, whenver I read a rags to riches story, I said to myself "if this guy can do IT, even I can do it".

    If you think about IM, its a dream, its a dream that every 9-5 job worker or a middle class guy would like to live.

    I would say your story would be very interesting to read ( I would personally like to read it), don't get rid of it even for million dollars.
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    • Profile picture of the author eshoppingez
      Originally Posted by Anoopchawla View Post

      I don't think you should hide it, because reading stories like this is very inspirational.
      I still remember when I started in IM, whenver I read a rags to riches story, I said to myself "if this guy can do IT, even I can do it".

      If you think about IM, its a dream, its a dream that every 9-5 job worker or a middle class guy would like to live.

      I would say your story would be very interesting to read ( I would personally like to read it), don't get rid of it even for million dollars.
      Exactly, and if your product targets newbies, that is exactly what they want to hear. They want to know that they can achieve success no matter what, and that'll definitely make them buy your product. I think retaining your bio was a good idea. No one is perfect, and hearing that you had your problems not that long ago makes people think that they can overcome theirs too.
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  • Profile picture of the author JDIZM
    Do what feels right with yourself man, personally I'm too honest.

    I see a lot of people on these forums just talk crap all day long because that's what keeps them going. Some people are compelled to lie about every single thing they do, even to themselves.

    Be who you want to be, choose your own destiny. It's your reputation not his.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashley C
    Hi Marcus,

    First of all - great to see a fellow Bristolian on the forum.

    There's nothing wrong with a truthful, inspiring background. It makes you an honest Internet marketer; one that can give hope and motivation to others dealing with tough life situations.

    The thing about a lot of these big-time gurus is that they shape an image for themselves for the sake of marketing. Heck, plenty of them even use fake names, otherwise you'd be able to dig up all kinds of info on them. I won't name any names - but some are only interested in helping themselves.

    Carry on as an honest, helpful IMer and don't let the gurus disconcert you.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikaroee
    I'm with you on this one. Most people love that kind of dramatic life turn around. It gives people confidence that if you can have success than they can too... mostly because they assume that they are better/smarter than you since they don't/didn't have a drug problem but that's another topic. It's a good marketing tactic to include your story and it does make you more brandable. That "guru" seems out of touch.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Thanks.

    The ultimate question is "does what we tell our readers, prospects and customers add value whilst promoting ourselves intelligently?"

    I've questioned this over and over and come the pretty much the same conclusion that "who you are" is enough - wording the content affectively is the tricky part!
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    • Profile picture of the author LOUDOU
      Hey man, I need to tell you that our stories are very similar indeed...

      I have a history of drug and alcohol addiction. I spent half of me teens up to 23 years old in and out of a mental institute...

      Do I hide it HELL NO!!!

      I agree 100%

      The reason I personally managed to stick on on this business and make a living is because my past gave me such a burning desire to be better for me and my family that I never gave up and still keep learning and bettering myself...

      I never even got a proper education...

      If reality tarnishes my business so be it.. I am real, life is hard for some people and rising from great adversity is something to be proud of brother....

      I manage a decent sized list and they know my story... I still make sales with them...

      Would be good to connect my friend,

      Kindest regards Louis Doughty
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    My personal opinion that is not backed by my own research is that an in depth description of the dark corners of your life will affect your overall credibility. Anything where a person admits that they made a string of bad decisions makes them seen as a person who makes or made those bad decisions at one time. I feel that things like personal bios aren't done by large marketers (or are at least fabricated) because its like applying for a job. You wouldn't go into a job interview and say "I was once a heroin addict, but I'm good now!" because judgement will be placed. I feel a lot of people who don't see the world as "sober or not sober" can really connect to the people who view the world that way.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I agree with the above post.

    I'm all for adding authenticity to your marketing but sometimes you can tell people a little too much. I must admit nowadays I find myself getting a little tired of hearing about everyone's life stories. Just tell me what you got and what it does. Whether you were a drug addict in your past or not, it doesn't add anymore credibility to your product in my eyes. The only thing that adds credibility is a great product on the back-end. Your product speaks for itself.

    Don't tell anyone anything you wouldn't be prepared to tell someone in a job interview or first date. In both of those instances you are also trying to sell yourself but you wouldn't mention such things, would you?
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    • Profile picture of the author Ben Armstrong
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Don't tell anyone anything you wouldn't be prepared to tell someone in a job interview or first date. In both of those instances you are also trying to sell yourself but you wouldn't mention such things, would you?
      The first date example was pretty much exactly what I was going to use.

      Once you've built up a relationship with your list and they've had an opportunity to get to know you as a successful internet marketer and some trust has been established, a story like that about overcoming the odds could definitely endear people to you. But if it's one of the first things people learn then it could be off putting.

      I wouldn't mention it in a bio on a product you're selling. If you have your own blog you could possibly cover it on your about page or make reference to it where relevant.
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  • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
    I know Brendon Burchard's story and I think it is real. But it also helps him market himself using a unique story.

    You shouldn't fake a story and you need not tell every history. Just do it if it is going to help you in the marketing. Does your unique story help making an emotional connection with your readers? If no, then drop it.
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    @ Bangalore, India.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Yes that's a valid point and you must be right about producing a great product full stop.

    Actually in my first job back to life I said of my addiction and got the job working in a children's home.

    Thanks for your responses.

    Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    yes i agree. If the story assists in the marketing process then put it in, if not then don't. That is good advise.

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Exactly what Will said. Something you need to keep in mind is that when selling a product (and this holds more true in the IM niche than some others) you are not only marketing that guide, but yourself as well. You screwed up, got sober, and apparently found success. Congratulations. But if I have the choice of learning from the guy who did everything right and the guy who could only recently learn to get his act together, who do you think I'm going with.

    I mean this as no offense to you personally, and I won't pretend to know your situation. But you need to take into consideration the way that customers and potential partners will view you. Reformed drug addict doesn't exactly scream "Great JV Opportunity". You don't have to lie though, just don't divulge everything.

    People love an underdog/redemption story when it comes to sports. From their potential teachers? Usually not as much, at least in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Exactly what Will said. Something you need to keep in mind is that when selling a product (and this holds more true in the IM niche than some others) you are not only marketing that guide, but yourself as well. You screwed up, got sober, and apparently found success. Congratulations. But if I have the choice of learning from the guy who did everything right and the guy who could only recently learn to get his act together, who do you think I'm going with.

      People love an underdog/redemption story when it comes to sports. From their potential teachers? Usually not as much, at least in my opinion.
      I take your point here. I'm still to meet anyone who got everything right though, even when it comes to making money. Many people who succeeded made a mess of it at least once. Different symptoms yes but failure in something teaches you a lot about yourself. Telling people about it is another thing of course.

      Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author joefizz
        Hi Marcus

        I spend so much time teaching my kids to be honest.

        Regrettably, with outside influences, 'truth' gets bent a little and becomes a fib. A fib is accepted but soon becomes a lie (bigger than fib).

        The point I am making is that truth has been replaced by dishonesty in society... so I admire not only your attitude but your honesty too! I always tell the truth.

        But, in relation to your point...I guess we've got to accept that people are different. I wonder if your guru is young or maybe had a privileged upbringing...? Hasn't yet had a chance to mature himself in the real world...

        By the way, he's wrong for 2 reasons:

        When you've got 5 minutes, look up something called Johari's Window...one part of it basically says, that things you share with others (self disclosure) creates a better understanding between individuals within a group.

        Secondly, Tony Robbins said:

        "How am I going to live today in order to create the tomorrow I'm committed to?"

        Enough said...

        Llwyddiant!

        Joe
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        • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
          Originally Posted by joefizz View Post

          Hi Marcus

          I spend so much time teaching my kids to be honest.

          Regrettably, with outside influences, 'truth' gets bent a little and becomes a fib. A fib is accepted but soon becomes a lie (bigger than fib).

          The point I am making is that truth has been replaced by dishonesty in society... so I admire not only your attitude but your honesty too! I always tell the truth.

          But, in relation to your point...I guess we've got to accept that people are different. I wonder if your guru is young or maybe had a privileged upbringing...? Hasn't yet had a chance to mature himself in the real world...

          By the way, he's wrong for 2 reasons:

          When you've got 5 minutes, look up something called Johari's Window...one part of it basically says, that things you share with others (self disclosure) creates a better understanding between individuals within a group.

          Secondly, Tony Robbins said:

          "How am I going to live today in order to create the tomorrow I'm committed to?"

          Enough said...

          Llwyddiant!

          Joe
          I will be checking out Johari's Window. I appreciate your response.

          Marcus
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

        I take your point here. I'm still to meet anyone who got everything right though, even when it comes to making money. Many people who succeeded made a mess of it at least once. Different symptoms yes but failure in something teaches you a lot about yourself. Telling people about it is another thing of course.

        Thanks
        Everyone fails. Few use it as a selling point .
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        • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
          Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

          Everyone fails. Few use it as a selling point .
          Nice!:rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
            No-one is perfect including you, me and every other
            person reading this thread.

            Humans know that.

            People have a light side and a dark side.

            The question is IF/WHEN you should reveal your addiction
            story.

            If it's relevant to the solution you're selling, then include
            it up front. If it's not directly relevant, then you may
            choose to reveal that part of you later or not mention it
            at all.

            Actually, admitting your flaws - if appropriate - is a powerful
            principle of persuasion that few people use. Instead, they
            prefer to present themselves as being flawless human beings
            which we know is complete BS.

            Dedicated to mutual success,

            Shaun
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            .

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  • Profile picture of the author wally247
    Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

    Seriously I recently produced a WSO/product in the make money niche that has done quite well so far...

    Before I launched I sent the product to a very well known high paid Internet Marketer, asking if he would take a look at it and promote my product.

    The reply was a shocker...

    First up he said that he loved the product as far as the education and strategy was concerned but he didn't like my personal bio which was largely about my history and more to the point - my dark path of drug/alcohol addiction.

    His words were:

    "Your product and system is good but your personal bio is terrible. Why are you telling people about drug addiction? This does nothing for you or your product accept affect your credibility as an Internet Marketer. You need to delete that whole section if you want to stand a chance of building a grand reputation. In fact you have damaged it already by telling me. I can't promote your product"

    In contrast to his statement I see hugely successful business like Brenden Burchard and Rich Shefren who actually use their histories and backgrounds as a foundation for their businesses. These are the guys that know how to build a business, help other people and do it with conviction.

    Granted neither of those examples are quite as extreme as the one I am telling but really...

    Does my story tarnish my reputation?

    To be honest I will continue to stay true to my history and tell people because it is in fact my greatest strength.

    As a result of my poor choices all those years ago I have learned more about myself than I ever would have had I taken a cleaner and more formal path, and I met the mother to my child in a rehab! We are a close family, clean, sober and loving.

    And my entire approach to Internet Marketing is based on a life of recovery, truth and commitment - to never give up.

    So, my mind won't be changed regardless of the replies I might get on this thread but I wonder if anyone else shares their difficulties and hardships in their online content. If so what are your outcomes? Do you regret it? Do you advise it? What are they?

    God knows this world if full of sufferings, just switch on CNN. You can't hide that!

    Mental health, abuse, racism, hatred etc. So much of this is in our world. We have to live this way, accept and challenge when we need to and be true to ourselves all along the way.


    To Our Success

    Marcus Rockey

    Who cares what that dummy said......never erase your story to suit some DORK IM "guru"!


    If you were making up a drug/alcohol story to be "edgy" or different from 98% of the other marketers out there (who kind of seem like they have never drank, smoked, had any fun in life) then that's not good.

    But if you were being honest, then why hide that! When I read a sales page or WSO letter or whatever and someone sounds like a phony dork, it makes me NOT want to listen to them.

    If I can't relate to a person, I don't want to listen to them.


    I recently got a course from a big social media guy who is a big-shot in IM, and let me tell you.....the dude is a total dork.


    It's really hard for me to listen to him talk because I don't relate to his NON-CUSSING, non-fun and non-normal-life ways.


    Tell your story, and screw the dummy who didn't like it...
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Something I neglected to mention above was your message to market match.

    It's very important.

    If I were selling a course on how to pick up girls then I want to tell a story about how I used to be crap at picking up girls and how I was able to turn things around to where I am now, fighting off girls with a stick.

    If I were selling a course on how to play basketball then I would want to tell a story about how I was the shortest guy in school and how, using my special training techniques, I was able to overcome things and get into the basketball team I wanted.

    Your message, your story -- they need to resonate with your market.

    You want to tell a story that your target market can relate to. In IM I would guess that very few of the people you are selling to have had drug or alcohol issues. Sure, there would be some and those people will be able to resonate with your story even more so, but for the vast majority of people who have never been through that experience, they can't relate to you.

    You know when you meet someone and they say... "Wow, you remind me so much of how I used to be when I was a kid." You want your customers to have that same feeling. They need to see THEMSELVES in your story because only then will they believe they can achieve the same success you have.

    And that's what good story telling is about.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by LloydC View Post

      Real e-mail marketing is ethical, e.g people are on your list becuase they want to be, you give them freebies and cool info, and recommend a product you used with success every now and again for some nice commissions.

      Unfortunately, being unethical is easier, making some crappy squeeze page and blasting every sucker who signs up with the latest and greatest product that you haven't even bought(let alone know what it actually does or if it works) all for the commission, then they come here and complain about clickbanks refund policy.

      Meh.
      Did I miss a topic change somewhere?
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      • Profile picture of the author LloydC
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Did I miss a topic change somewhere?
        haha, completely wrong thread .... my bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    Sometimes it seems that everyone has a sob story to tell - and let's face it, most of us do. You only have to read the stories of virtually every entrant to Britain's (not) Got Talent - everyone of them was abandoned as a baby, suffered abuse at the hands of a member of their family............

    My take is this.
    Yes - your story is inspiring. I for one admire you for turning your life around and managing to have a stable, loving family which hopefully will mean your children will follow a different path.
    No - if I'm buying a product from you, I don't want to hear it. I hate the "poor me" style of marketing.

    As for the guru - it's your life, it's your product, you have to make your own decisions about your selling techniques. What appeals to one won't appeal to another. No selling technique will hook all prospective customers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      Sometimes it seems that everyone has a sob story to tell - and let's face it, most of us do. You only have to read the stories of virtually every entrant to Britain's (not) Got Talent - everyone of them was abandoned as a baby, suffered abuse at the hands of a member of their family............
      my whole life is a sob story

      I was gonna go on Britians Got Talent and do a role play on addiction but the thought of Simon and all that money put me off! :p

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Thanks Will

    Great advice that I will take on board.

    I was unsure which way this thread would go but I am pulling out some nuggets of info that will help in the future, yours being one of them.

    I was surprised that 1 in 5 people across Europe and the US have some kind of connection to drug/alcohol addiction. 1 in 3 have a connection to addiction of one kind or another, whether that be eating, gambling etc. It is my intention to grapple with peoples emotions on a sub conscious level too, which is a part of marketing.

    It seems that there will definately be "lost prospects and customers" as a result of this kind of disclosure - but how many. Would it be more or less beneficial?

    Still unknown.

    Thanks again.

    Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hi Marcus,

    It's good to see that you're open to all perspectives and not just looking for people to agree with yours.

    I think the answer for "what's best" will always have many factors that are situation-based, so for some people your story will be a turn off and for others an inspiration.

    I second what Will said about the relativity of it.

    If I go to buy fish and chips I don't want to hear the guy selling them telling me he just got out of jail and doesn't do drugs anymore.

    If I go to a personal development seminar - maybe that's exactly what I want to hear from someone who's now successful as it offers a "I had nothing and built my success from scratch" perspective. That's good as there are also a lot of successful people who were already successful before they got into IM and the pictures they show of their flash car and house are nothing to do with IM or what they're selling.

    Now, to answer your question directly.....

    I think you should drop your story when you're selling a product, unless that product is targeted at helping people who are still having those problems that you overcame.

    Just because you have framed your past problems as something that give you strength, that doesn't mean that others will do the same. For many people they never get over some of the problems that life has dealt them and showing them that you did will just give them a reason to feel worse about themselves.

    So - it's horses for courses. If your story gives you strength and inspires others - share it with those who are interested. Just don't start a conversation with it.

    If you're building a list you can get personal once people have bought from you and want to know more about who you are. You don't have to use it as a USP to get sales.

    Good luck with things and I hope you continue to move forward as well as you already have done.

    Andy
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post


      Just because you have framed your past problems as something that give you strength, that doesn't mean that others will do the same. For many people they never get over some of the problems that life has dealt them and showing them that you did will just give them a reason to feel worse about themselves.
      I had not considered that in regard to sales at least and adding to peoples problems is the exact opposite of a good intention.

      Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

        I had not considered that in regard to sales at least and adding to peoples problems is the exact opposite of a good intention.

        Thanks
        You'll never please everyone, I'm just making the point that while you may see it as a positive - not everyone will, and marketing 101 is to not shut off sections of your potential audience if you don't need to.

        NOT including your story up-front won't hurt your sales and including it could - therefore, from a purely business perspective it doesn't make sense.

        Now, if you are intending to build your business around you as a brand and want to have your personal life mixed in there from the beginning then maybe it makes sense in your situation. Just be clear about why you're doing it - if it's for your benefit or that of others.

        You can take people on a journey to get to know you.

        As someone already said - we've all got stories of hardship and tradgedy, some people want to share theirs, some don't. There's no right or wrong about it, just a matter of perspective.

        I've found that there have been times when I've shared some of my hardships, when others are using the same hardship as an excuse for lack of success or as a barrier, simply to show them that they don't have to think of it as such a blocking factor for them.

        You only have to see someone with no arms or legs who is out there traveling and giving motivational speeches to realise that most of the things we may want to use as excuses are irrelevant.
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        nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    yeah well said Andy.

    The story could harm sales but not putting it in won't.

    You can't win Wimbledon in the second round but you can sure lose it. Ask Raffa.

    Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    yes it will be removed now.

    Thanks
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  • I would not hide anything I have things that in my bio that I tell people and big gurus will not talk to me once they hard it, but I don't care. Live is not perfect they only pretend it is.
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    soon people... Relax...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Marcus -

      Two things I'd change to begin with:

      1 - a better photo of yourself. Not in a suit and tie but a more professional, person-on-the-go-getting-things-done photo. Combined with the story, the photo used doesn't work for me in a business sense.

      2 - the page begins as "we" but then you go into third person narrative. You are describing yourself rather than speaking as yourself.

      3 - there is no timeline that defines past/present. No number of days of sobriety or years to provide context.

      4 - Of five "about me" paragraphs....three are about your personal problems. Bad ratio if you are looking for customers.

      And so we adapted all the principles and strategies used to build a successful offline car dealership
      Use that line to gain perspective on what to reveal. Did you sell cars by telling potential customers about your addiction? I doubt it - you sold using your knowledge and on the value of the products.

      So, my mind won't be changed regardless of the replies I might get on this thread but I wonder if anyone else shares their difficulties and hardships in their online content. If so what are your outcomes? Do you regret it? Do you advise it? What are they?
      There's a line between presenting yourself as a person who has overcome adversity - and a person who is focused on his personal problems. Your past is part of who you are - but it needs to be encapsulated in a time frame that removes it from who you are NOW.

      I think the guru did you a favor. What I'm not clear about is whether he knew your story because you felt compelled to share it - or whether your "personal problems" are part of the text in the products.

      If you were compelled to "share your story" - why? If I meet someone in a business setting I don't want to know about his personal demons or his divorce story - I want to know about his business sense.

      So much of this is in our world. We have to live this way, accept and challenge when we need to and be true to ourselves all along the way.
      It's called "life" - and everyone has problems to overcome. Those problems don't have to be part of every discussion we have. There is also joy, love, accomplishment, nature, sobriety - to balance the bad.

      Everyone has his own story - and limited interest in stories of people they don't know. You can overdo the adversity angle easily if you keep talking about it day after day or make the the "most important thing about me". If you are counseling people on personal addiction - it's an important part of your conversation - but not so much if you want to sell products.
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    In my opinion, it says a lot more about the "guru" than it does about you. Perhaps you did reveal a bit too much, but then the "guru" could have requested that you tone it down, as opposed to removing it completely.

    It's the kind of thing that you could gloss over, but that's your choice.

    I have a hunch that the "guru" doesn't like people who used to be addicts, and he probably doesn't believe in second chances. In effect, he did you two favors: He said your info was good, and he also let you know what kind of person he is. That's a good thing, because why would you want somebody like that promoting your product anyway?

    All the best,
    Michael
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      In my opinion, it says a lot more about the "guru" than it does about you. Perhaps you did reveal a bit too much, but then the "guru" could have requested that you tone it down, as opposed to removing it completely.

      It's the kind of thing that you could gloss over, but that's your choice.

      I have a hunch that the "guru" doesn't like people who used to be addicts, and he probably doesn't believe in second chances. In effect, he did you two favors: He said your info was good, and he also let you know what kind of person he is. That's a good thing, because why would you want somebody like that promoting your product anyway?

      All the best,
      Michael
      Yes thanks. I guess it was a wake up call really and I was a little naive at the time to think it would just be accepted - I actually didn't give a second thought at the time. Learned hard and fast.

      But as you kinda say, this is one man only and not the be all and end all of a marketing campaign.

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Everyone probably has experiences that shaped them into who they are today. Some good, some not so good. A lot of marketers seemed to have jumped on this "I was an Alcatraz convict until one day ....."

    I've seen so much of it that now I tend not to believe it. It doesn't sound genuine. I haven't read yours, so I don't know if it would hit me the same, but I used to write resumes for a living and the things I put on a resume were results.

    That's still the way that I approach sales letters.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Everyone probably has experiences that shaped them into who they are today. Some good, some not so good. A lot of marketers seemed to have jumped on this "I was an Alcatraz convict until one day ....."

      I've seen so much of it that now I tend not to believe it. It doesn't sound genuine. I haven't read yours, so I don't know if it would hit me the same, but I used to write resumes for a living and the things I put on a resume were results.

      That's still the way that I approach sales letters.
      Yes I wouldn't put it on a resume either. Didn't occur to me either that some would not believe it! Who would expect to build a lasting growth business based on BS like that. I admire their creativity.

      Should you have a spare half hour I will drop you the PDF.

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    One of the biggest problems of using biographical information within sales
    copy is that it's all about you. That type of information, irrespective of
    it's content, is unlikely to build empathy with your reader unless they have
    had a similar experience.

    Your sales copy should be written to your perfect customer... that one
    person who is most representative of your target market.

    If your sales copy wasn't written in a form that would be attractive to
    my perfect subscriber, then I would probably turn down your offer too.

    John
    Signature
    John's Internet Marketing News, Views & Reviews: John Taylor Online
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      One of the biggest problems of using biographical information within sales
      copy is that it's all about you. That type of information, irrespective of
      it's content, is unlikely to build empathy with your reader unless they have
      had a similar experience.

      Your sales copy should be written to your perfect customer... that one
      person who is most representative of your target market.

      If your sales copy wasn't written in a form that would be attractive to
      my perfect subscriber, then I would probably turn down your offer too.

      John
      Well said, John!

      Marcus' story may not be relevant in the make money niche (unless he somehow discovered the "secret" while going through the struggles in his bio), BUT they would be perfect if he were offering a guide on how to beat addiction.

      If he feels he must let people know about his past, it can usually be summed up in one sentence. Something like: "I have experienced a lot of low points in my life, and I'm guessing you have too." Then go right back into the relevant parts of the bio.

      The point is that we don't have to deny who we are, but we don't have to share everything all the time, either.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Signature

      "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      One of the biggest problems of using biographical information within sales
      copy is that it's all about you. That type of information, irrespective of
      it's content, is unlikely to build empathy with your reader unless they have
      had a similar experience.

      Your sales copy should be written to your perfect customer... that one
      person who is most representative of your target market.

      If your sales copy wasn't written in a form that would be attractive to
      my perfect subscriber, then I would probably turn down your offer too.

      John
      Thanks for your comment John.

      Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Trying to blend into a very crowded marketplace is a fools game. You need to stand out. That will attract some to you and it will make some run from you. But just trying to be the "normal" pay check to pay check turned internet millionaire guy is a damn hard way to build a following.

    Stories sell things. They always have. The key is to make your story as relevant to your product as possible. Of course a story like yours will close some doors. Thats normal and almost certainly not "game ending" problem. Truth be told every one of us has closed some doors on ourselves before.

    I have always found that for me its a lot easier to find other doors to open when I am true to myself than if I am trying to be something I am not. My advice is to stay true to yourself and you will eventually find your "circle" to fit into when it comes to the internet marketing niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      Trying to blend into a very crowded marketplace is a fools game. You need to stand out. That will attract some to you and it will make some run from you. But just trying to be the "normal" pay check to pay check turned internet millionaire guy is a damn hard way to build a following.

      Stories sell things. They always have. The key is to make your story as relevant to your product as possible. Of course a story like yours will close some doors. Thats normal and almost certainly not "game ending" problem. Truth be told every one of us has closed some doors on ourselves before.

      I have always found that for me its a lot easier to find other doors to open when I am true to myself than if I am trying to be something I am not. My advice is to stay true to yourself and you will eventually find your "circle" to fit into when it comes to the internet marketing niche.
      This comment is nice thanks.

      More time I spend online the more I see that doing the same as other people, only a little better, working a little harder is a road to nowhere.

      It's my belief that doing the exact opposite to 95% of IM'ers is the way to go. Standing out is essential and relevancy seems to be the theme here. Having people open an email or click an ad via controversy is one thing, driving the sale is another. All taken on board, thanks.

      Marcus
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

        It's my belief that doing the exact opposite to 95% of IM'ers is the way to go. Standing out is essential and relevancy seems to be the theme here.

        Marcus
        I guess it's a bit late to say this now - but this does seem to be all about you rather than about business, IM or anything else.

        Your problems are such a focus in your life that you feel you have to bring them into your IM and you're trying to rationalise it in any way you can.

        You talk about standing out - but as someone already said, the "here's how bad things were, now I'm successful" story has been told 1000 times already.

        That doesn't make you stand out in IM.

        In reality you don't need to stand out in order to be successful - you just need the same thing that all IMers need:

        1 - A great offer
        2 - Access to a hungry market

        I know that with your past problems and your environment being what they are that you're looking to stand out and want to share your personal history, but I do think you're blowing the relevancy and importance of it out of proportion.

        In reality - most people don't care, have heard it before, or will wonder why you're telling them because they didn't ask.

        Of course that depends on how you market yourself, because there are scenarios where your past and your lessons are what people want (as in your mentoring etc.), they're just not as big a deal as you may think in relation to selling unrelated information products.

        Your product, customer service, promotional activities (relating to the benefits/features of your product(s)) are what will make or break your business.

        Your personal history and lessons are what will carry you through when times are tough and you need focus and resolution - but they're not pre-requisits for making you successful.

        So, I'd just say be careful not to kid yourself that you have to use your previous struggles as the way to be different just because you have such a focus on them yourself.

        As John Taylor said - your business should be about your customers not about you.

        Andy
        p.s. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just re-reading all the posts it does seem like you're kind of attached to your problems and one day you might leave them behind and making your business so focused on them might not be comepletely healthy.
        Signature

        nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          I guess it's a bit late to say this now - but this does seem to be all about you rather than about business, IM or anything else.

          Your problems are such a focus in your life that you feel you have to bring them into your IM and you're trying to rationalise it in any way you can.

          You talk about standing out - but as someone already said, the "here's how bad things were, now I'm successful" story has been told 1000 times already.

          That doesn't make you stand out in IM.

          In reality you don't need to stand out in order to be successful - you just need the same thing that all IMers need:

          1 - A great offer
          2 - Access to a hungry market

          I know that with your past problems and your environment being what they are that you're looking to stand out and want to share your personal history, but I do think you're blowing the relevancy and importance of it out of proportion.

          In reality - most people don't care, have heard it before, or will wonder why you're telling them because they didn't ask.

          Of course that depends on how you market yourself, because there are scenarios where your past and your lessons are what people want (as in your mentoring etc.), they're just not as big a deal as you may think in relation to selling unrelated information products.

          Your product, customer service, promotional activities (relating to the benefits/features of your product(s)) are what will make or break your business.

          Your personal history and lessons are what will carry you through when times are tough and you need focus and resolution - but they're not pre-requisits for making you successful.

          So, I'd just say be careful not to kid yourself that you have to use your previous struggles as the way to be different just because you have such a focus on them yourself.

          As John Taylor said - your business should be about your customers not about you.

          Andy
          p.s. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just re-reading all the posts it does seem like you're kind of attached to your problems and one day you might leave them behind and making your business so focused on them might not be comepletely healthy.
          Thanks for this post. You may well be right, there could be an attachment issue going on. As this stuff takes up 70% of my life it is easy to lean on it. In fact 70% may be part of the problem and it could be good to create some more free time.

          Thanks
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          • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
            Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

            Thanks for this post. You may well be right, there could be an attachment issue going on. As this stuff takes up 70% of my life it is easy to lean on it. In fact 70% may be part of the problem and it could be good to create some more free time.

            Thanks
            I was wondering if that was an issue - I've know several cancer survivors, and it seems that cancer was such a pivotal, all-consuming part of their lives for so long, that every conversation they're involved in seems to relate to cancer. This is therapeutically helpful for the cancer survivor, but probably not helpful in selling product unless, like said before, the story is relevant to the product.

            joe
            Signature

            I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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            • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
              Originally Posted by cjreynolds View Post

              I was wondering if that was an issue - I've know several cancer survivors, and it seems that cancer was such a pivotal, all-consuming part of their lives for so long, that every conversation they're involved in seems to relate to cancer. This is therapeutically helpful for the cancer survivor, but probably not helpful in selling product unless, like said before, the story is relevant to the product.

              joe
              Yeah thanks.

              The thread started out with me basically asking what people thought of inclusion of a bumpy history in products. It seems to have gone off track a little.

              Just for the record I'm not completely attached to addiction and the history - my life is packed with stuffffff.

              Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I think it depends on how relevant it is to your success story. But as mentioned, too much is a turn off even to people who will relate to it.

    Someone once told me something that stuck. Everything you write can be one of three things. It can help you. It can be neutral or it can hurt you. Then he said you should only use stuff that can help or is neutral.

    I don't always agree with that because there are times, according to your audience, that something that might be harmful in a certain venue is accepted or even expected in others.

    I always think of cussing when this comes up. There are plenty of markets where it's accepted and it won't hurt much. There are literally NO markets where you're going to get hurt if you don't use it.

    At the end of the day you've gotta be true to yourself, even if it does cost you a sale or two.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I think it depends on how relevant it is to your success story. But as mentioned, too much is a turn off even to people who will relate to it.

      Someone once told me something that stuck. Everything you write can be one of three things. It can help you. It can be neutral or it can hurt you. Then he said you should only use stuff that can help or is neutral.

      I don't always agree with that because there are times, according to your audience, that something that might be harmful in a certain venue is accepted or even expected in others.

      I always think of cussing when this comes up. There are plenty of markets where it's accepted and it won't hurt much. There are literally NO markets where you're going to get hurt if you don't use it.

      At the end of the day you've gotta be true to yourself, even if it does cost you a sale or two.
      Thanks.

      I am concluding that my choice can have pro's and con's (no pun intended. LOL)

      If I have hurt a building reputation that I have already done so anyway, no going back.

      If this section of my life had not been such a big part of it and held so much relevancy to life today it may have been easier to leave out.

      However, I mentor addict/alcoholics everyday of my life. I take phone calls everyday. My partner is a recovered alcoholic, so are many of our friends.

      What can someone do about that. Injecting personality and tenacity in every piece of content would prove hard if I were to leave out the before and after.

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    I agree with the rationale that if your personal history is relevant to your product; then I would include it. I'm not sure I would put in the "guts and blood details", but your story of getting your self back on track could well be an inspiration to others.

    When I look at my list and the type of information they like I'm not sure because of the bio it would work with them. Therefore I don't think I would promote your product, simply because it wasn't a good fit.

    Ken

    The Old Geezer
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by Ken Leatherman View Post

      I agree with the rationale that if your personal history is relevant to your product; then I would include it. I'm not sure I would put in the "guts and blood details", but your story of getting your self back on track could well be an inspiration to others.

      When I look at my list and the type of information they like I'm not sure because of the bio it would work with them. Therefore I don't think I would promote your product, simply because it wasn't a good fit.

      Ken

      The Old Geezer
      Yes I understand and that is perfectly reasonable. Perhaps two copies would work, one with one without?!

      Thanks
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  • In my opinion, that's not the type of personal info you want to air in a business environment as it WILL put many people off.

    Everything has a time and a place, and openly talking about your drug addictions in a business-minded proposal is *NOT* the place.

    Imagine this scenario: You're about to ask a girl for a date, and right before asking her out you tell that your ex-girlfriend just dumped you and you're heartbroken and whatnot... your chances to get her phone number would just dropped significantly. Wrong timing, wrong place. See?
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  • Profile picture of the author alfid
    Sometimes it's a matter of not what we reveal but how we reveal it. I never saw your bio and if you had a copy of it I might have better input. Otherwise, if you feel convicted to share your story by all means stay true to yourself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Too much information, Marcus. Sometimes you can be too honest, you know? And being like that can back-fire, because let's face it, not everyone has your best interest at heart.

      I'm with Will, John, Andy, and everyone else who have advised you that telling your story could actually cost you sales.

      I think your sales copy should focus on the buyer - as John Taylor said - write your copy for your perfect customer...

      this does not mean I don't admire you for turning your life around - nothing could be further from the truth! Kudos to you for finding the strength and courage to change.

      I wish you every success with all your future endeavours.
      Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      I have a fat gut and nose hair.

      Shameless. Oh yeah.

      You should be proud man. Never give a crap what nancy boy toffee nosed idiot's think of you or your history.

      Send him an email with a picture of you laying in a bed of money and say F**K YOU VERY MUCH!
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu View Post

        I have a fat gut and nose hair.

        Shameless. Oh yeah.
        You should seek out a 12-step program for that
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        • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          You should seek out a 12-step program for that

          It's called fatnosehair anonymous!
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      • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
        Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu View Post

        I have a fat gut and nose hair.

        Shameless. Oh yeah.

        You should be proud man. Never give a crap what nancy boy toffee nosed idiot's think of you or your history.

        Send him an email with a picture of you laying in a bed of money and say F**K YOU VERY MUCH!
        I love your response, up front and as it is. Ta.

        Marcus
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    • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
      Wow, to me that's one of your assets. I can't believe he didn't see this if he's a guru. A great story that captures people's hearts is powerful. Being honest and positioning yourself that way is powerful. Being down to earth and positioning yourself this way is powerful.

      Everyone loves an underdog who overcomes his/her setbacks. Apparent he had never heard of Seabiscuit
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  • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
    I got the example I was thinking about, he is uber successful he shares similar story to you, his name his "Jordan Belfort" and he openly shares his story with people.
    Go figure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by Anoopchawla View Post

      I got the example I was thinking about, he is uber successful he shares similar story to you, his name his "Jordan Belfort" and he openly shares his story with people.
      Go figure.
      Thanks for that
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  • Profile picture of the author Vlad Romanov
    I think that you should be proud to have accomplished what you did and if someone decides to look down on you simply because you openly discuss a life experience, then you can't do anything but to move on from that person as they won't be any good for you anyway.

    That being said, people subconsciously judge your product based on your bio. Should you be concerned? No, because I'm sure you will gain much more by being open. You can't please everyone and obviously some people will always hate what you do.

    Good luck with your product,
    Vlad
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by Vlad Romanov View Post

      I think that you should be proud to have accomplished what you did and if someone decides to look down on you simply because you openly discuss a life experience, then you can't do anything but to move on from that person as they won't be any good for you anyway.

      That being said, people subconsciously judge your product based on your bio. Should you be concerned? No, because I'm sure you will gain much more by being open. You can't please everyone and obviously some people will always hate what you do.

      Good luck with your product,
      Vlad
      Thank you Vlad, appreciate your comments.
      Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkBradley
    You could try making up you bio- a composit chararator for a memoirs- like Obama did in his books. Not saying this is ethical but look where it got him. Memoir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Mark
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    Mark Bradley

    I Love Conversion ->> Make your Facbook Pages Convert. Get into the Lab -->> Facebook Conversion Lab

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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by MarkBradley View Post

      You could try making up you bio- a composit chararator for a memoirs- like Obama did in his books. Not saying this is ethical but look where it got him. Memoir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Mark
      I will take a look, thanks for the advise.

      Hope you're well.

      Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author larry1113
    I think you should keep your story man. Maybe you don't have to be too detailed about your history because people do judge a book by its cover but definitely mentioning it could be helpful.

    I'd just be wary of your choice of words that's all. Instead of using addict which sounds mmm harsh? You could just say you was in a bad place in your life with drugs and other bad influences.

    Respect your story though man. Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by larry1113 View Post

      I think you should keep your story man. Maybe you don't have to be too detailed about your history because people do judge a book by its cover but definitely mentioning it could be helpful.

      I'd just be wary of your choice of words that's all. Instead of using addict which sounds mmm harsh? You could just say you was in a bad place in your life with drugs and other bad influences.

      Respect your story though man. Good luck!
      Thanks for your comments mate.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    I likely have one of the most messed up stories on this forum as it goes far beyond drug addiction. It involves more than most people could handle, so I rarely talk about it. The ONLY time I talk about it is when I'm asked.

    For instance, when I got out of prison and went back to college, my school asked me to give a speech on drug addiction, self esteem & self improvement. In a room of over 300 people, I talked about my past in the most vivid manner a person can imagine.

    After giving that speech, every single person in the room stood up and clapped their hands. But the thing is, I told the story proudly.

    If you can't tell a story proudly, people WILL try to use it against you. On the other hand if you tell a story in a way where you seem proud of it, NOBODY will try to challenge you.

    I noticed this when I saw Frank Kern telling his war story. He goes VERY MUCH into detail about his past, but he tells the story in a way where you can tell he does NOT give a damn what others think.

    People will look at the story for guidance. If you don't sound proud telling it, people will naturally start to assume you left some very important details out. Its just natural imo. Like "why does he seem insecure telling the story... when he's turned his life around.. what is he not telling us?"

    Like right now you see how you're asking us for our opinions. I'll tell you one thing, if I got the same response from this guy, I'd take that more as a clue that I just told the story the wrong way. I'd go back and read it and compare it to people who have ALREADY told worse stories, but still have great reputations.

    The fact is when you reveal personal information like that, you can't leave a shadow of a doubt in peoples minds about what actually happened. You really need to fill in the details imo or don't say anything.

    Like don't just write a few sentences about how you were an addict. Look how Ryan Eagle talks about his struggle with addiction. He doesn't really hold anything back. He is PROUD of the fact that it helped it become a much better person. I'd actually be curious to see this story myself, just to see how it reads. Do you think its possible that you were a little too vague maybe?

    Maybe you didn't frame things the right way?
    idk.. just thinking outloud here.

    If Frank Kern can tell a not so admirable story about being a bum and drug addict, I think you can definitely tell a respectable story about addiction. If know tons of professional people talk about their pasts, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong about it imo.

    People almost expect stories like this now just thanks to how social media has changed the world.

    -Red
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post


      I noticed this when I saw Frank Kern telling his war story.
      Hey Red,

      You'll also notice that Frank rarely puts any of that stuff in the sales copy for his products. In fact as big an IM celeb as he is - I'd bet 'most' people still don't know about that.
      Signature

      nothing to see here.

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      • Marcus,
        Don't forget another possibility...

        he may not promote your product because you are not in the buddy circle.

        Once he sees one of that circle promote it, one of the buddies, he may be all over you like a rash, suddenly desperate to tell his email list about this guy he knows who used to have drug issues.

        Just a thought.

        Cheers and good luck,
        Gordon
        Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        You'll also notice that Frank rarely puts any of that stuff in the sales copy for his products.
        Back in January 2005, Frank Kern used a lot of his FTC
        story as part of the sales process for his Underachiever
        Program launch with Ed Dale.

        However, it was used to serve a marketing purpose: to
        overcome legitimate objections that some people had.

        Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

        I still don't know if Frank is lazy or busts his ass for a living. Because he's said on multiple occassions that he is lazy, but also busts his ass when it comes time to work.
        Frank Kern is one of the hardest working IMers in this
        business. You don't get to be at the top of your field
        by being lazy or laying around in a horizontal position
        no matter what his persona portrays.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
        Signature

        .

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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post


      If you can't tell a story proudly, people WILL try to use it against you. On the other hand if you tell a story in a way where you seem proud of it, NOBODY will try to challenge you.

      I noticed this when I saw Frank Kern telling his war story. He goes VERY MUCH into detail about his past, but he tells the story in a way where you can tell he does NOT give a damn what others think.

      People will look at the story for guidance. If you don't sound proud telling it, people will naturally start to assume you left some very important details out. Its just natural imo. Like "why does he seem insecure telling the story... when he's turned his life around.. what is he not telling us?"

      Like right now you see how you're asking us for our opinions. I'll tell you one thing, if I got the same response from this guy, I'd take that more as a clue that I just told the story the wrong way. I'd go back and read it and compare it to people who have ALREADY told worse stories, but still have great reputations.

      The fact is when you reveal personal information like that, you can't leave a shadow of a doubt in peoples minds about what actually happened. You really need to fill in the details imo or don't say anything.

      Like don't just write a few sentences about how you were an addict. Look how Ryan Eagle talks about his struggle with addiction. He doesn't really hold anything back. He is PROUD of the fact that it helped it become a much better person. I'd actually be curious to see this story myself, just to see how it reads. Do you think its possible that you were a little too vague maybe?

      Maybe you didn't frame things the right way?
      idk.. just thinking outloud here.

      If Frank Kern can tell a not so admirable story about being a bum and drug addict, I think you can definitely tell a respectable story about addiction. If know tons of professional people talk about their pasts, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong about it imo.

      People almost expect stories like this now just thanks to how social media has changed the world.

      -Red
      Yeah this is useful thank you but I'm not getting into who's story is worst. I don't know yours and you don't know mine.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Thats true Frank doesn't talk about drug addiction in his sales copy but he DOES talk often about how lazy he use to be.

    So maybe just talk about that. =]
    I suppose a lot more people can identify with it. The fact is these guys operate on a whole nother level and I still don't know if Frank is lazy or busts his ass for a living. Because he's said on multiple occassions that he is lazy, but also busts his ass when it comes time to work.

    So maybe its the duality that really appeals to people the most. He seems to appeal to both lazy minded newbs AND hardworking gurus alike. Doesn't really leave either group behind imo. As far as talking about drug addiction... I'll let the more experienced people decide how to address that.

    -Red
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  • Profile picture of the author ceenote100
    I think that was too much information for someone to put on their bio. You have to wait until you get rich and famous then write a book about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

    As proud as you may be about overcoming the drug addiction, this is not something you should be making public. The only history that matters is what qualifies you to teach people how to build their business. I'm guessing you've got nothing to say in that regard (like every other fake guru), so you went with the overcoming addiction angle instead. Find something else.

    When big names come out with a story about their past, it's in the context of "You may know be as being successful, but there's this thing about my past...."

    Coming out with this story on day 1 isn't very bright.
    I will take that on board. Thanks for your insights.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Draper
    I can't tell you what to do. But if I read your story as a pitch, I would run run run far away. good luck with your decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author fedor50
    Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

    Seriously I recently produced a WSO/product in the make money niche that has done quite well so far...

    Before I launched I sent the product to a very well known high paid Internet Marketer, asking if he would take a look at it and promote my product.

    The reply was a shocker...

    First up he said that he loved the product as far as the education and strategy was concerned but he didn't like my personal bio which was largely about my history and more to the point - drug/alcohol addiction.

    His words were:

    "Your product and system is good but your personal bio is terrible. Why are you telling people about drug addiction? This does nothing for you or your product accept affect your credibility as an Internet Marketer. You need to delete that whole section if you want to stand a chance of building a grand reputation. In fact you have damaged it already by telling me. I can't promote your product"

    In contrast to his statement I see hugely successful business like Brenden Burchard and Rich Shefren who actually use their histories and backgrounds as a foundation for their businesses. These are the guys that know how to build a business, help other people and do it with conviction.

    Granted neither of those examples are quite as extreme as the one I am telling but really...

    Does my story tarnish my reputation?

    To be honest I will continue to stay true to my history and tell people because it is in fact my greatest strength.

    As a result of my poor choices all those years ago I have learned more about myself than I ever would have had I taken a cleaner and more formal path, and I met the mother to my child in a rehab! We are a close family, clean, sober and loving.

    And my entire approach to Internet Marketing is based on a life of recovery, truth and commitment - to never give up.

    So, my mind won't be changed regardless of the replies I might get on this thread but I wonder if anyone else shares their difficulties and hardships in their online content. If so what are your outcomes? Do you regret it? Do you advise it? What are they?

    God knows this world if full of sufferings, just switch on CNN. You can't hide that!

    Mental health, abuse, racism, hatred etc. So much of this is in our world. We have to live this way, accept and challenge when we need to and be true to ourselves all along the way.


    To Our Success

    Marcus Rockey
    I like your approach to being authentic in how you deal with people online. You show people your strengths and also your weaknesses which I think says a lot of good things about your character. I like that you're trying to remain truthful in your online career. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Just to close of this thread I want to say thanks once more. A ton of good stuff for me to take away, with one or two acceptions of course

    Good to be a part of this forum, giving and receiving information and advice.

    Cheers!

    Marcus
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  • Profile picture of the author ebiz1
    I'd agree with WiIIR...how is the product you are selling to the exact state( with details) of your life before? or is it a coaching programme on self development? Because self development does not relate very much to Internet Marketing, probably thats why the guru refused to understand your point of view and promote you to internet market potential customers...would be out of topic...
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  • Marcus Rockey,

    Just consider whether airing your drug addictions in public (in a business-minded website to be more specific) actually serves any purpose. Should you customers care about your personal story or should they care about your actual offer? could some people rightfully be put off by the drug thingy? why making that info public would help in any way your credibility? and shouldnt that credibility be based on your offer and your skills, rather than on your drug addictions?

    Seriously man, there's a place and time for everything... are you sure a business-minded website is the right place to talk about drug addictions? I mean, really? I personally would be put off by it - not because I have a problem with that, but simply because I'm not interested in that and I don't find it relevant to the topic at hand (business).

    Food for thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Yes that's a valid point Anonymous and one I will consider too but I largely sell through personality.

    I have sold hundreds of cars to people and they bought 1. because the car was good quality and value for money 2. That they liked me and we found mutual benefits through personality. Now sometimes the mutuality was sport other times family, other times addiction, would you believe it?!

    Open mindedness is key to sustainable success in what ever we do. I am open minded that some will appreciate and warm to this brand of honesty and others will not - and that is ok.
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    • Profile picture of the author dv8domainsDotCom
      Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

      Yes that's a valid point Anonymous and one I will consider too but I largely sell through personality.

      I have sold hundreds of cars to people and they bought 1. because the car was good quality and value for money 2. That they liked me and we found mutual benefits through personality. Now sometimes the mutuality was sport other times family, other times addiction, would you believe it?!

      Open mindedness is key to sustainable success in what ever we do. I am open minded that some will appreciate and warm to this brand of honesty and others will not - and that is ok.
      I think we've all read the story of the successful person, up from the ashes of a down-trodden past. And for some (not all) there is a certain resonance that it strikes. I feel this might be why it strikes a chord with some people. Of course, as there are no 100% right answers, you will get people that contradict that statement, just as much as they would chastise you for being you (or, more appropriately, for telling your story in such an open and honest manner, even if it is a means to an end).

      As you point out in your car sales analogy, it is about the relationship and common ground that you are building with people. Rapport. It has nothing to do with the situation itself, as much as it does the trust you are instilling. The trust is, that if you are "this open about your past", and at the same time, you are "this intelligent and approachable right now", then you are probably honest (ergo, not full of sh*t when it comes to your product, whether it is a car or WSO). Have you ever had a customer come back, angry at their car purchase (honestly, have you?)? Given what I have read from you so far, I doubt it (perhaps if so, it was the car they were not happy with, and not your approach or technique)... Anyway... You come off as sincere and genuinely helpful, and THAT is why your approach was successful (and not necessarily the subject matter).
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      • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
        I think we've all read the story of the successful person, up from the ashes of a down-trodden past. And for some (not all) there is a certain resonance that it strikes. I feel this might be why it strikes a chord with some people. Of course, as there are no 100% right answers, you will get people that contradict that statement, just as much as they would chastise you for being you (or, more appropriately, for telling your story in such an open and honest manner, even if it is a means to an end).

        As you point out in your car sales analogy, it is about the relationship and common ground that you are building with people. Rapport. It has nothing to do with the situation itself, as much as it does the trust you are instilling. The trust is, that if you are "this open about your past", and at the same time, you are "this intelligent and approachable right now", then you are probably honest (ergo, not full of sh*t when it comes to your product, whether it is a car or WSO). Have you ever had a customer come back, angry at their car purchase (honestly, have you?)? Given what I have read from you so far, I doubt it (perhaps if so, it was the car they were not happy with, and not your approach or technique)... Anyway... You come off as sincere and genuinely helpful, and THAT is why your approach was successful (and not necessarily the subject matter).
        Have friend requested you here. Always good to hear a success story with similar backgrounds. Must have been difficult in mental institutions - you sound like a great example.

        Speak soon mate.

        Marcus
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      • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
        Originally Posted by dv8domainsDotCom View Post

        I think we've all read the story of the successful person, up from the ashes of a down-trodden past. And for some (not all) there is a certain resonance that it strikes. I feel this might be why it strikes a chord with some people. Of course, as there are no 100% right answers, you will get people that contradict that statement, just as much as they would chastise you for being you (or, more appropriately, for telling your story in such an open and honest manner, even if it is a means to an end).

        As you point out in your car sales analogy, it is about the relationship and common ground that you are building with people. Rapport. It has nothing to do with the situation itself, as much as it does the trust you are instilling. The trust is, that if you are "this open about your past", and at the same time, you are "this intelligent and approachable right now", then you are probably honest (ergo, not full of sh*t when it comes to your product, whether it is a car or WSO). Have you ever had a customer come back, angry at their car purchase (honestly, have you?)? Given what I have read from you so far, I doubt it (perhaps if so, it was the car they were not happy with, and not your approach or technique)... Anyway... You come off as sincere and genuinely helpful, and THAT is why your approach was successful (and not necessarily the subject matter).
        Thank you for your post. This thread has been a little tough in some ways and it is really nice to have another member affirm my position and intention - and before anyone says it: no I didn't need to to say it but it was good to hear.

        Cheers

        Marcus
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  • Hi Marcus, I took my time for reading your bio, and it's a thing I never do for all the Warriors.
    I appreciated your frankly description of your life, and knowing you are now following the right direction makes me happy.

    It's always important to know all by a person, and for my way of thinking is right to show your history and especially the fact you won over alcoholism and drug addiction.

    See you soon,
    Alessandro
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
      Originally Posted by Alessandro Zamboni View Post

      Hi Marcus, I took my time for reading your bio, and it's a thing I never do for all the Warriors.
      I appreciated your frankly description of your life, and knowing you are now following the right direction makes me happy.

      It's always important to know all by a person, and for my way of thinking is right to show your history and especially the fact you won over alcoholism and drug addiction.

      See you soon,
      Alessandro
      Thanks for taking the time and making the effort. This thread has been quite successful.

      Best wishes.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Marcus Rockey View Post

        Thanks for taking the time and making the effort. This thread has been quite successful.

        Best wishes.
        I think that you posted to it over 30 times just on your own might be why. You had 6 posts in a row without a reply at one point - that has to be a record
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        nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          I think that you posted to it over 30 times just on your own might be why. You had 6 posts in a row without a reply at one point - that has to be a record
          The content not the post count I think! :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Only one way to find out.

    Split test two sales pages... One with the bio that talks about the past drug addiction and then have one that has the bio without it.

    I personally think the conversion rate will barely differ between the two versions.

    And most customers only care about what your product can do for them, not your past addiction problems.

    It doesn't make you more credible by talking about it.

    But it may strike a chord with people who can relate.

    ...though I think it won't make a difference either way when you test.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    Here's a lesson you're going to learn eventually, but should learn it right now:

    No matter what you do, you simply cannot please everyone all the time.

    Someone will always have issue with you or something you do.

    Get used to it and just ignore people like that.

    Your time is too valuable to spend it even bothering with threads like this about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post


      Your time is too valuable to spend it even bothering with threads like this about it.
      Haha - he started the thread.

      That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
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      nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    That's what I'm saying, don't waste your time on things like this, it's pointless.

    I know he started the thread...maybe I'm missing what you mean?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

      That's what I'm saying, don't waste your time on things like this, it's pointless.

      I know he started the thread...maybe I'm missing what you mean?
      He started the thread in order to get his head clear about how to factor-in his story so that he can make better decisions moving forward - how is that a waste of his time?

      I'd have thought it's exactly what he should be doing.
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      nothing to see here.

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