People with glasses: the stats are in

LOL. This made me laugh.

A similar situation to poor old Bill Stickers who is always being prosecuted.

people wearing glasses goes up in summer time

thats what happend when i conducted my survay

Well we just don't see eye to eye on this.


I'm sure CB was in Boise, Idaho last time I checked.


Harvey

Is this the correct procedure?
y outube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w
(copy paste and remove the space after the 'y')

I wear glasses but I've never been anywhere near your house!

Hi,

There's actually a lot to learn from this thread.

I too have read all of the clickbank 'conspiracy' threads. As with any IM subject that gets discussed on forums, there are many crazy comments, uninformed opinions, outrageous statements etc.

Anyone who has been around a while (and this thread contains more of those warriors than most threads recently) should know that to get to the bottom of things, you have to look past certain things to get to the meat. Certain inaccurate/misleading/bizarre aspects of an online discussion are always going to be present - it's the nature of the 'beast'.

So is it wise to focus on these ever-present things that simply distract from the main point? Or is it wiser to ignore the noise and concentrate on the guts of the matter? It's your choice.

I also spent a lot of time reading in forums when EPN (ebay affiliate program) completely changed it's system to an inhouse one from a 3rd party one. They introduced an inhouse (read - adsense style 'secret algorithm') quality score system that dramatically affected earnings (sometimes up, sometimes down).

They started expiring long term affiliates and seemingly ALL of them claimed they were innocent. It became apparent in a short period that many of them were far from innocent, and in those cases EPN were simply protecting honest affiliates and themselves.

But mystery still surrounds the EPN quality score system. Even with access to a lot of long term stats, confusion still abounds amongst honest affiliates. A sense of nervousness exists amongst honest, genuine affiliates who have piled many of their eggs in the EPN basket. What if I get expired and that month's money is clawed back and my income stream instantly disappears?

This is a situation that many people have found themselves in (including myself) and it's not a comfortable one. You do everything by the book, but you are forced to live in a state of fear. It's not fun, but it's also a necessary part of business - a welcome kick up the rear for anyone with too many eggs in one basket, and a typical situation that occurs when the little guy works for the big guy.

The big guy HAS to use this fear to keep his army of workers on the straight and narrow. The little guy HAS to learn to live with the 'sword of Damocles' over his head, because it's part and parcel of not being a big guy.

I know from my studies, my contacts and my own experiences that the same situation exists for many EPN affiliates as it does for many clickbank affiliates. They start selling as an affiliate for clickbank, they enjoy it and become an expert in it. So they wisely focus their efforts on employing that expertise to leverage and multiply their income - BUT, all the time they are piling more eggs into the same basket.

They become comfortable with the one method. The system they use becomes subconscious and happens on autopilot. If they are forced to change, it is difficult - it's like moving on from a relationship that they enjoyed - from the familiar to the unfamiliar. We all know that change is healthy and good, but it doesn't feel nice.

I promote both programs, albeit one more than the other.

.........

Getting back to the 'wild claims of conspiracy/theft.'

It's not unusual in an online marketing forum. Wild claims are made in virtually every thread. It's not like the sight of a wild claim causes one to jump to attention.

As I read through this thread, I couldn't help but be reminded of a different type of thread subject that creates a similar scenario -

Here's how it goes -

a) guru launch

b) guru associates post threads to attract attention to the launch

c) 'little guys' post threads pointing to inconsistencies/inaccuracies/BS regarding the product and it's launch - as outlined above, often these contain conspiracy theories along with the outrageous claims and surrounding noise that always occurs

d) guru associates 'return fire' with responses that appear to be taken from a script, using words like whiner, loser, hater etc

e) polarisation occurs between those who see themselves as either -

1) the little guy, or one who stands for the little guy

2) gurus, or those who stand for them

More often than not, the weight of opinion is in the favour of the gurus. The little guys are the ones who (generally) come and go, whereas the stalwarts in a marketing forum (generally) know where their bread is buttered.

There are similarities here - Harvey, who I admire, has connections with clickbank and also appears to have a kind of vested interest because of his forum.

Harvey is entitled to his opinion (and to voice it), I'm not knocking him for it, and as I mentioned above with my example re- EPN - he has a point, because many of the claims against clickbank are unfounded, outrageous and even unprofessional.

But I would also add that if one is to view the thing sensibly (IE - ignore some of the noise and get to the meat of the issue) then it's also worth considering if there is ever smoke without fire.

These claims have (and will) always be around when affiliates build an income on a system that is almost entirely opaque (virtually impossible to prove or disprove claims of theft/irregularities by the program from the affiliate end).

Many of the people responding to this thread are probably just having a laugh, joining in the joke and wordplay etc. But by doing so you are also adding weight to the underlying premise insinuated in the OP - which is that the claims of any wrong-doing (or accidental tracking failure) by clickbank are entirely false and laughable.

Bearing in mind my above example of the guru launch threads, are you all entirely comfortable with adding your voice to the crowd?

What I am referring to by this is that regarding MANY of the guru launch threads that I have either observed or participated in, over time it has been proven that even though the little guys were bombarded with claims of being wayward conspiracy theorists, losers/haters/whiners, it actually turned out that they were right - it WAS a scam. The little guy was being lied to. The claims they had made were true. But the guru associates focussed on the noise and the more ridiculous responses, blew them out of proportion and usually pushed the threads into a situation where they HAD to be deleted. Who gains/learns from this?

I just wonder how the respondents to this thread would feel if in time, it was shown that clickbank tracking WAS broken (for whatever reason)? And if those respondents were also little guys themselves?

I notice that certain people, who I have no doubt have strong opinions about this subject (because they feel they have lost money because of it) are not responding here. Personally, without knowing for sure, I reckon they have not responded because they look at the replies here and they can see that so far, the weight of opinion is 100% in line with ridiculing anyone who would take the contrary position.

That doesn't phase me. I have always spoken my mind and been honest here - regardless of the inevitable consequences.

I think some of you are a little quick to jump on the 'ridicule bandwagon' here and aren't expressing your true feelings. As I mentioned above, I'm sure some of you never thought about it this deeply and simply saw the opportunity to have a laugh and indulge in some wordplay and laughter. I'm all for the latter, as you have probably noticed. But I also think deeply - as well as being a bit of a clown. As a marketer - it matters.

Do you REALLY want to give the impression that you think that anyone who expresses concern that clickbank's tracking might either be unknowingly broken, or at worst knowingly broken (IE throttling commissions) deserves to be ridiculed en masse?

Because that's what you are doing, in my opinion.

I was always saddened by the way that bad behaviour by gurus, and the discussion of it, was always (without exception) ridiculed and quashed by those with vested interests.

And as most of you will remember I often took a stand, against the odds, in order that at the least those discussions could take place and be thrashed out without emotions running out of control in order that we as marketers, instead of just pushing it to one side actually examined the issues and looked at it from a deeper level from both sides. Not just so that peoples' bad behaviour could be exposed, but also so that as a group, we could become better marketers.

Shoving things under the carpet doesn't make them go away.

EG -

Hypothetical scenario - let's discuss whether forced continuity is a good or bad thing, whether it works, what impression it leaves on the consumer, whether it increases profits, whether those profits offset subscriber losses etc...

Response type 1 -

No, let's not do this, instead let's do whatever we can to destroy the discussion and get the whole thread deleted

Response type 2 -

Yes, let's maintain sensible reactions, thrash out the ins and outs, look at both sides and all learn something from it

I prefer response 2, but what I nearly always got here was response 1. It saddens me, but I understand and accept it.

What I see in THIS particular discussion is that the inevitable sheep-like responses in the original threads (IE those responses like 'clickbank are crooks - screw them') lead to threads like this that ALSO contain inevitable sheep-like responses (IE the conspiracy theory gang are at work).

No-one wins. No-one is any wiser. The sense of fear amongst affiliates continues and is exacerbated. The little guy looks at this thread and sees a 'closed shop.' Sensible discussion is muted rather than encouraged. Great.

It kind of mirrors many things in society and business, doesn't it? Things that are going on currently, where the little guy (the masses) are being hoodwinked with a simple case of smoke and mirrors. While the man on the street rages against his next door neighbour who happens to work at a bank, or an investment firm, the culprits are (no doubt) having discussions JUST like this where they take the p*** out of the hoardes who they have pitted against each other - so EASILY - because the hoardes blindly accept what they are told and don't stop to THINK.

The guys at the top (our leaders) set little guy A against little guy B. They fight it out continually, while the guys at the top pour fuel on the flames. Little guys en masse shoot themselves in the foot.

Or google adwords - little guy adwords affiliate A goes to war on little guy adwords affiliate B - raising both of their click costs in a bidding war. Google wins. In the meantime little guy C works his nuts off to find a way to get false clicks on his adsense account, hitting little guy A & B in the pocket. Google wins.

Sigh. Do you not see the problem? How many of you here stand to be adversely affected if clickbank tracking is screwy, and how many of you stand to gain?

Funny thing is, people put on my glasses and they can't see a thing. Must have something to do with the fact that I'm "as nearsighted as all get-out" according to my eye doctor.

LOL - I always liked that one!! Being an enlisted guy, you gotta like any joke slamming an officers arrogance

but no one could ever really mistake a lighthouse for the nav lights of a ship