The Snowball to Avalance Downfall of eBay

66 replies
Gud Lordy!

Just found this:

eBay Top Seller Calls It Quits

I left eBay due to their Draconian practices years ago. . .but I didnt know that it got this bad.

Please get a cup O' joe, and dig in and read the following just posted on July 27th!

Come back and share your thots!

Keeping my Warrior Brethren and Sistren Informed!

Tevis
#avalance #downfall #ebay #snowball
  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    As I read it, I was wondering if he had been building a list and why he hadn't started a website and started to build the store he wanted instead of relying on eBay.

    It's a good lesson not to put all your eggs in one basket.
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    • Profile picture of the author davepr
      ebay is a really expensive venture, but like noted above you shouldn't put your eggs in one basket.. Ebay is good for those who are just getting their feet wet, but overall to be successful and reach your potential you need to build your own brand (website) that you control and occupy other third party sites such as Amazon as well..
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    • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
      Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

      As I read it, I was wondering if he had been building a list and why he hadn't started a website and started to build the store he wanted instead of relying on eBay.

      It's a good lesson not to put all your eggs in one basket.
      That's EXACTLY what I thought when I read it too, Dan. If he had been building a "buyer's list" then he could have easily put his store onto his own site.
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      • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
        I can't wait to hear about Amazon LOL
        I suspect that they are not showing used paperback books especially if their available in electronic form.
        All these big large corps make me understand why there were once rules in place to try to stop the monopolies. They are totally out of control. I hear there's a new Google update coming down the pike too. All I can say is a lot of things baffle me. Like why did people go with windows rather than IBM's Warp. Why do people go with google over the other search engines? I guess we will all know eventually.

        sidenote: I had a dream a few months ago where I was looking at buying ebay, so I know a few things. lol
        1 I'm going to make some big money somewhere.
        2 Ebay is probably not going to do to well in the near future.
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        • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
          Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

          Like why did people go with windows rather than IBM's Warp.
          When I pass from this world and all is made clear, this will be one of questions I will ask. That, and "what's up with Donald Trump's hair?"
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Franklin
    I've know 3 people who did a lot of selling on eBay and over the past 2 years, ALL 3 of them have jumped shp, leaving eBay completely to sell on other online marketplaces.

    They all cited excessive fees, poor customer service and a very inflexible selling environment.

    It's an interesting article and I find it funny that shortly after Meg Whitman leaves that it seems the whole company starts to drastically head south. Having a good captain at the helm of a company really makes a difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I am not an eBay seller, so I had no preconceptions going into the article.

    It was an interesting read, but there were times when the author came across as a whiner. Perhaps I would whine in a similar situation, but for a guy who was so smart, he didn't seem to be willing to change.

    He said he changed HOW he listed products, but he wasn't willing to explore the options for WHAT products he listed. For example, he states that he started out by going to the garment district and found some unheard of designers that produced quality items. BUT...when he's told that he should switch to name-brand designers if he wants his auctions to be found he simply says "I can't do that."

    Also, I'm sure some people find $15,000 a month to be incredibly low income, but $180,000 a year is nothing to sneeze at. Adjust your lifestyle and ride it out until business picks up again.

    Based on his version of events, it sounds like eBay wasn't being fair. It sounds like the higher ups are more concerned about making Google happy than making their users happy. Sound familiar?

    Even though this article was one-sided, it was still clear that there was plenty of blame on all sides. Either way, I hope he can work things out and get back on track.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post


      Also, I'm sure some people find $15,000 a month to be incredibly low income, but $180,000 a year is nothing to sneeze at. Adjust your lifestyle and ride it out until business picks up again.
      What I'm not sure of, is if this is net profit or just sales. I don't think he makes it clear in the article.

      If it isn't net profit (not taking listing fees into account) then he may be making practically nothing.

      Above comment was right... he should have been building a list so that he could start again on google's interface.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    I found it funny how he says no one at ebay will take his calls but he personally knows higher ups who are jumping ship...

    Agree w/ Michael. He sounds like a whiner.
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  • Profile picture of the author dpilianv5
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • BUT...when he's told that he should switch to name-brand designers if he wants his auctions to be found he simply says "I can't do that."

      He can't do it because there's not enough margin.

      The difference between your sale price and the price at which you bought the item is your margin. The margin has to cover your eBay fees (which are exorbitant), all of your other operating costs and your profit.

      He was cutting deals with no-name designers because they don't have to bear the marketing costs of a brand name.

      He's absolutely right about changes to the search algorithm. If your stuff can't be found in search, you won't make sales. Yet eBay will charge you fees anyway.

      Just the latest in a long line of hardworking sellers to defect. I got out a couple of years ago.

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        He can't do it because there's not enough margin.

        The difference between your sale price and the price at which you bought the item is your margin. The margin has to cover your eBay fees (which are exorbitant), all of your other operating costs and your profit.

        He was cutting deals with no-name designers because they don't have to bear the marketing costs of a brand name.

        fLufF
        --
        Yes, I understand that.

        The author seems like a smart enough guy, so why not respond to the changes? Find a solution. Change your inventory, change your prices, learn to live on less, ride it out, find a different sales outlet, build a "real" store online, move on, etc.

        There is obviously a market for this stuff, so he could set up his own website to sell it. The time he spent on eBay listings could now be invested in marketing his own site.

        It does sound like eBay was making things difficult, but the author still comes across as a victim and whiner. His story does make for a good cautionary tale about putting all of your eggs in a single basket, though.

        All the best,
        Michael
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        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob28x
          I agree. When I sell something on ebay, the packing slip I include directs them to my website and I give them a discount code to use as well. If I had the traffic on ebay that he had to drive to my website, I would be in heaven.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoDemon
    ebay is not a nice place, i really hate it, too much troubles going on there
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob28x
    I do decent with eBay, but only list 10-20 items at a time on there. I do see how it would be hard to run a large business on eBay alone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robsand

    One of the rules about selling online be it eBay or anything is always be ready for it to suddenly change without notice. The best advice I can give is to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Roncone
    As I've heard it, eBay has been circling the drain for a while now. (Come to think of it, for a couple years, now that he mentions the CEO change in '08)

    This article, though disgustingly upsetting, doesn't surprise me to be honest. I've heard nothing but complaints from sellers all from the actually eBay business itself.

    My heart goes out to the guy. Left with nothing twice.

    However, it does seem like he could have taken more measures to present a total collapse (sources outside of eBay pursued earlier) There's a few really good lessons to be learned here if you read deeply enough.

    Best,
    -Mike
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    Founder & Web Strategist at Grae Web Strategies

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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      Originally Posted by Mike Roncone View Post

      As I've heard it, eBay has been circling the drain for a while now. (Come to think of it, for a couple years, now that he mentions the CEO change in '08)

      This article, though disgustingly upsetting, doesn't surprise me to be honest. I've heard nothing but complaints from sellers all from the actually eBay business itself.

      My heart goes out to the guy. Left with nothing twice.

      However, it does seem like he could have taken more measures to present a total collapse (sources outside of eBay pursued earlier) There's a few really good lessons to be learned here if you read deeply enough.

      Best,
      -Mike
      Totally agree. He was taken to poverty twice, and though I don't know all the details, it seems he didn't learn the first time (and perhaps not the second time, either) - Diversify!
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  • Profile picture of the author Fat Wolf
    sad story, i was in ebay business back in 2001-2007, do make some nice money, but after ebay change all their rules, it is become harder and harder to doing businese in ebay, and there is lot of Chinese and HK seller selling stuff with very low price that you can't beat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Alan
    Normally, I am not a big defender of some of eBay's seller polices, but in this case what they are doing makes sense by focusing on what is going to drive the most traffic from Google. People search for brand names they don't search for generic products.

    As to what the seller should do in this case my advice would be for him to bounce back into what he started with by selling used brand name stuff. Even if he doesn't make as large of a margin he can use those auctions to lure people into his store and get them to look at his new generic stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author maggie2
    Has anyone moved their selling from eBay to Amazon and if so has it been a successful move
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    Marg

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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Yeah, some story. I cut and ran from Ebay a long time ago. Tried an Amazon store also and they increased the fees to where it just wasn't profitable enough for the stuff I was selling.
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  • Profile picture of the author pennyroll
    That was just a terrible story. I know we left ebay about 3 years ago due to the excessive fees.

    I wish there were a good 'auction' alternative to eBay.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Yeah I had sellerofebooks on ebay and did very well. I had a store, and collected tons of emails. I ditched them too, they just are not for me. I sold my website and got out of the ebook business, about a year before the ereaders took off, man did I cry lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob28x
    I started selling again after taking a break on ebay just a few days ago. I am surprised with the fee's now. And if you do a store, there is no break on the final value fee's anymore. Just listing fee's which are small to begin with so unless you sell a lot, it's not worth it. I can only list 100 items a month so no point in a store.

    Date ~ ID Number ~ Selling Price ~ Listing Fee ~ Selling Fee ~ Paypal Fee ~ Item Cost ~ Profit
    7/29/2012 150864574999 $109.99 $0.50 $9.10 $3.49 $90.15 $6.75

    7/30/2012 150864563847 $289.99 $0.50 $19.90 $8.71 $239.58 $21.30

    7/31/2012 150869184779 $109.99 $0.50 $9.10 $3.49 $75.25 $21.65

    7/31/2012 150864564840 $329.99 $0.50 $22.30 $9.87 $289.57 $7.75

    8/1/2012 150864564840 $329.99 $0.50 $22.30 $9.87 $291.41 $5.91

    8/1/2012 150864574999 $219.98 $0.50 $18.20 $6.68 $167.98 $26.62

    Grand Total on Profit was $89.98 on $1,389.93 in sales.

    Total fee's on the above were $103.90 to eBay and $42.11 to PayPal.

    I have the same items for the same prices as I sell them for on my website (Which would have been $193.88 profit if sold on my site instead of eBay). The eBay fee's make a huge difference.

    The main hope I get out of it is that those people who purchased from me on eBay hopefully will go to my website for their future purchases. I plan to mail them out thank you postcards with a special offer for their next purchase on my website to lure them there.

    Everything I have sold on eBay I drop ship BTW. So profit is decent since there is little work involved, but nothing to write home about. On my site, I have inventory I stock on hand, but I am trying to move away from that (and retail in general) but I have to sell off what I have left.
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  • Profile picture of the author brittneyj
    I am selling off all of my stuff too. I had to price it low just to get rid of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author christhurman
    For those saying the author is a whiner, equate Ebay to Google, and his clothing stuff to your websites... Every time Google decides to change their algorithm what happens? Most people need to do extra work because of Google's whims.

    He had an honest business, but because Ebay puts itself as God and everyone else as underlings it ruined his business. Imagine having to edit a 5,000 inventory lot multiple times. I imagine is it frustrating, tiring, and really exasperates you.

    And the Ebay fees border on ridiculousness. Between Ebay listing fees, than Ebay fees when the item sells, than Paypal fees when payment is made, you are losing something like 12% of the sale price. So you need a 12% margin just to break even. It cripples sellers. One day a great competitor will come, charge 1% fee to list, 1% fee if item sells and Ebay will go belly up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by christhurman View Post

      For those saying the author is a whiner, equate Ebay to Google, and his clothing stuff to your websites... Every time Google decides to change their algorithm what happens? Most people need to do extra work because of Google's whims.

      He had an honest business, but because Ebay puts itself as God and everyone else as underlings it ruined his business. Imagine having to edit a 5,000 inventory lot multiple times. I imagine is it frustrating, tiring, and really exasperates you.

      And the Ebay fees border on ridiculousness. Between Ebay listing fees, than Ebay fees when the item sells, than Paypal fees when payment is made, you are losing something like 12% of the sale price. So you need a 12% margin just to break even. It cripples sellers. One day a great competitor will come, charge 1% fee to list, 1% fee if item sells and Ebay will go belly up.
      Personally, I do not rely on Google for traffic (GASP!). I do not whine when they make algorithm changes...because I don't try to game their system.

      He had an honest business that relied too heavily on a 3rd party that he had no control over.

      If the fees truly "crippled" sellers, then sellers wouldn't use them. eBay and PayPal charge what the market can bear--that's what we call "business".

      If you think the fees on eBay are too high, then don't use it. Nobody was forcing the author of the piece to use them.

      I'm not saying eBay is perfect, but it's not all bad.

      The story (assuming it's true) is, as I mentioned, a cautionary tale about relying too much on a single method of generating income.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      "Ich bin en fuego!"
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      • Profile picture of the author PR Wizard
        I used to sell a few items here and there on ebay but haven't listed anything for a few years now. Recently I wanted to sell some candle holders but was quite surprised by the fees. I posted them on craigslist instead and was happy with the profit. I realize this wouldn't be plausible for anyone doing high volume sales but the point is that if you don't like the fees or the way they operate you have to come up with a new plan. Create your own site, start selling on other 3rd party sites etc. It seems like things have been going downhill with this guy for awhile yet he never jumped ship. Wonder why?

        I do sympathize with this fellow and I wholeheartedly agree that ebay sucks for sellers but he really should have branched out instead of continuing to sip the ebay kool-aid. Just my two cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by christhurman View Post

      For those saying the author is a whiner, equate Ebay to Google, and his clothing stuff to your websites... Every time Google decides to change their algorithm what happens? Most people need to do extra work because of Google's whims.

      He had an honest business, but because Ebay puts itself as God and everyone else as underlings it ruined his business. Imagine having to edit a 5,000 inventory lot multiple times. I imagine is it frustrating, tiring, and really exasperates you.

      And the Ebay fees border on ridiculousness. Between Ebay listing fees, than Ebay fees when the item sells, than Paypal fees when payment is made, you are losing something like 12% of the sale price. So you need a 12% margin just to break even. It cripples sellers. One day a great competitor will come, charge 1% fee to list, 1% fee if item sells and Ebay will go belly up.
      Although it wasn't exactly a retailer, like eBay, look at what happened to MySpace.

      At this point, with the online landscape the way it is, I don't discount this possibility by any means.

      ....having never really ventured into eBay, I had NO idea the fees were THIS high....
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Tevis,

        I've always had an involvement with eBay of different sorts.

        The one thing that always strikes me as the most important takeaway from what they have done is this - one of the most profitable and enduring business models on the internet is to create a marketplace which enables people to trade with each other and the creator stands in the middle, taking a slice of each transaction (a stealthily ever-increasing slice and as many different slices as they can find).

        If you look around you'll see this model in action all over the place - it's clearly a winner and comes with a relatively low starting investment too.

        And the Ebay fees border on ridiculousness. Between Ebay listing fees, than Ebay fees when the item sells, than Paypal fees when payment is made, you are losing something like 12% of the sale price. So you need a 12% margin just to break even. It cripples sellers. One day a great competitor will come, charge 1% fee to list, 1% fee if item sells and Ebay will go belly up.
        People have been saying this for ages, competitors have come and gone, but eBay are still there, still profitable and still squeezing their customers/affiliates until the pips squeak.

        Maybe it works? Maybe it's the best way for them to do their business?
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        Roger Davis

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        • Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          Hi Tevis,
          People have been saying this for ages, competitors have come and gone, but eBay are still there, still profitable and still squeezing their customers/affiliates until the pips squeak.

          Maybe it works? Maybe it's the best way for them to do their business?
          eBay had first mover advantage, which is huge.

          eBay Inc. financials includes acquisitions PayPal and GSI. The eBay marketplace is usually a relatively small contributor to bottom-line profits.

          fLufF
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi fluffythewondercat,

            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            eBay had first mover advantage, which is huge.
            I agree.

            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            eBay Inc. financials includes acquisitions PayPal and GSI.
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            ...one of the most profitable and enduring business models on the internet is to create a marketplace which enables people to trade with each other and the creator stands in the middle, taking a slice of each transaction (a stealthily ever-increasing slice and as many different slices as they can find).
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            Roger Davis

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            • and as many different slices as they can find

              It seemed to me what you meant by that was the fact they are now charging increasing numbers of fees, such as an eBay fee on the shipping cost. Plus, soon they will be charging a fee on auctions that are cancelled prematurely, which currently is just about the only way to make sure you realize a decent price on the no-reserve item you're offering. (It still may be worth it to pay the fee and cancel anyway.)

              fLufF
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              • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                Hi fluffythewondercat,

                For clarity, here's what I meant -

                stands in the middle, taking a slice of each transaction -
                a stealthily ever-increasing slice
                IE via fees etc

                and as many different slices as they can find
                IE via purchase of paypal etc
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                Roger Davis

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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      Originally Posted by christhurman View Post

      And the Ebay fees border on ridiculousness. Between Ebay listing fees, than Ebay fees when the item sells, than Paypal fees when payment is made, you are losing something like 12% of the sale price. So you need a 12% margin just to break even. It cripples sellers. One day a great competitor will come, charge 1% fee to list, 1% fee if item sells and Ebay will go belly up.
      I have absolutely no doubt that Alibaba/Jack Ma will create a new brand of TaoBao in the western world and demolish eBay in the same way it did in China. TaoBao wasn't just more relative to the marketplace of C2C and B2C to people in China, but in the world. Offering a company a percentage of your sales to make sales is apart of Internet 1.0, and the global internet users Have moved past it.

      Guess what? It will be free to buy and sell too.
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      • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
        eBay is still a relatively cheap auction platform. Other auctions (online or offline) charge a seller's premium of 15-30%. So eBay is on the low side of that being below 15% for most transactions. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium either (which is 15-20% anywhere else).

        Originally Posted by Silas Hart View Post

        I have absolutely no doubt that Alibaba/Jack Ma will create a new brand of TaoBao in the western world and demolish eBay in the same way it did in China.
        No chance. Western society does not like anything that comes out of the east. Not websites, not movies, not clothes, not music, nothing....

        China is good for their cheap labor and that is all. For everything in your house that is made in China, can you spot anything that was invented in China? No, because the Chinese do not innovate. And whoever takes out eBay in North America and Europe is going to have to be a serious innovator.
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        • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
          Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

          No chance. Western society does not like anything that comes out of the east. Not websites, not movies, not clothes, not music, nothing....
          So true.. Sega, Sony and Nintendo were never popular here in the West. Nobody here likes any kind of anime or manga either, not even the more mainstream Japanese cartoons like Pokemon or Avatar that flood our TVs on a daily basis. I also never watched Speed Racer or Voltron when I was a kid.

          Back on topic, though.. I think you'd have to be blind to not realize how much eBay has gone downhill since Meg Whitman left. She built a great company from the ground up and for years it provided a lot of value to its buyers, sellers and investors.. it's sad to see what's happening to that company these days.

          Back off topic (just slightly), Meg had my vote when she ran for governor of California, but clearly someone who understands the complexities of business, money management and modern technology isn't qualified to lead a state in a budget crisis. Oh well, I hear she's doing great things at HP.
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        • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
          Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

          eBay is still a relatively cheap auction platform. Other auctions (online or offline) charge a seller's premium of 15-30%. So eBay is on the low side of that being below 15% for most transactions. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium either (which is 15-20% anywhere else).


          No chance. Western society does not like anything that comes out of the east. Not websites, not movies, not clothes, not music, nothing....

          China is good for their cheap labor and that is all. For everything in your house that is made in China, can you spot anything that was invented in China? No, because the Chinese do not innovate. And whoever takes out eBay in North America and Europe is going to have to be a serious innovator.
          Man you could not be more wrong, this isn't the 1950's.

          As the person above me states, low fee commissions (or free) is the way of the new market place, and TaoBao which is actually bigger than eBay, is a test to that. A B2C and C2C selling platform can become HUGE and very profitable by not charging sellers to sell, or charging buyers to buy and can be carried very well by ad revenue and other small things to increase a sellers selling experience and a buyers buying experience. This is the way of Craigslist, PoF, and so many more really popular websites that have adopted this model.

          eBay will NEVER adopt this model because they lack innovation. Again, this is why eBay (and even companies like Best Buy) couldn't adapt to the new online marketplace and why both got their asses handed to them in China - which boasts the worlds Largest marketplace. China>Rest of the World.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    One of the interesting comments on that site :

    " and i see your still selling and how do we know tnis isnt a *publicity* stunt you and acc mgr put together...to boost sales and drive people to your store,..i know if i hadnt paid my fees past due date i wouldnt be on ebay, 5 minutes later...but your still there 7000 plus listings...??...just saying"
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Sad, but not surprised. Alot of major sellers quit ebay once ebay came out with increased fees and forced some sellers to offer free shipping on their items... along with 4ebay store issues.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Sad, but not surprised. Alot of major sellers quit ebay once ebay came out with increased fees and forced some sellers to offer free shipping on their items... along with ebay store issues.
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    Originally Posted by Tevis Verrett View Post

    Gud Lordy!

    Just found this:

    eBay Top Seller Calls It Quits

    I left eBay due to their Draconian practices years ago. . .but I didnt know that it got this bad.

    Please get a cup O' joe, and dig in and read the following just posted on July 27th!

    Come back and share your thots!

    Keeping my Warrior Brethren and Sistren Informed!

    Tevis
    I'm pretty much thinking the same thing as everyone else.

    That guy should of gone solo a loooong time ago.

    I'm in no way an expert in eBay but even I know all the top sellers are trying to get out and on their own.

    I think a couple days in the warrior forum and this guy will have his business back up and running again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tevis Verrett
    Wow Guys!

    Grateful for all the thoughful replies!

    I too have jumped ship from eBay. They have sucked all of the margin and the nuance out of it.

    Buhring more thots. . .

    Noobs be warned!

    What is the alternative, or said a different way, eBay and Amazon killers emerging?

    I found Pricefalls Online Stores - Electronics, Computers & Accessories, other great buys at Clearance Prices

    OK, talk amongst yourselves. . .

    Wishing my bretheren and sistren good business!

    Tevis
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Alan
    There is still money to be made on selling stuff on eBay. Is it tougher than it used to be? Yes. Does eBay still periodically find new and fascinating ways frustrate sellers? Yes. But the bottom line is you can still make money on eBay and it is one of the more stable and newbie friendly ways to make money on the Internet. eBay is is a ready made source of customers that already have their wallets pulled out and are ready to buy something. It is up to you to figure out if you can make the numbers work.

    Another way to make money with eBay that people overlook is to actually buy stuff there that is dirt cheap like cell phone accessories and flip them in the real world. You can buy a lot of stuff like this below the cheapest wholesale price because it is direct from the manufacturer in Hong Kong.
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    • The main hope I get out of it is that those people who purchased from me on eBay hopefully will go to my website for their future purchases. I plan to mail them out thank you postcards with a special offer for their next purchase on my website to lure them there.

      Our merchant group has found over time very few buyers convert from eBay to website purchases.

      Folks who buy on eBay, buy on eBay. Either they don't trust independent sellers or they know they can squeeze an eBay seller. Or they really want those eBay bucks. Or they don't want to use a payment method other than PayPal.

      When I left eBay exactly one (1) customer came with me. And I had over 10,000.

      For everyone saying this guy shouldn't have put all his eggs into one basket, you pretty much have to when you sell on eBay because you don't have time to do anything else. Dropshipping margins are too thin to live on, so you have to ship your own stuff. And the more you sell, the more you have to ship. It's a killer.

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        The main hope I get out of it is that those people who purchased from me on eBay hopefully will go to my website for their future purchases. I plan to mail them out thank you postcards with a special offer for their next purchase on my website to lure them there.

        Our merchant group has found over time very few buyers convert from eBay to website purchases.

        Folks who buy on eBay, buy on eBay. Either they don't trust independent sellers or they know they can squeeze an eBay seller. Or they really want those eBay bucks. Or they don't want to use a payment method other than PayPal.

        When I left eBay exactly one (1) customer came with me. And I had over 10,000.

        For everyone saying this guy shouldn't have put all his eggs into one basket, you pretty much have to when you sell on eBay because you don't have time to do anything else. Dropshipping margins are too thin to live on, so you have to ship your own stuff. And the more you sell, the more you have to ship. It's a killer.

        fLufF
        --
        Correct. You have to come up with very crafty methods to pull people from eBay to your website. Pimpin' aint easy.

        eBay simply doesn't allow people to build their brand there. Sure you could build a store, you could even reroute your eBay store URL to a regular dot com, but in the end, if someone walks up to one of your customers and says "Hey, where did you get that kick ass scarf from?" - they are going to say "eBay."
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  • Profile picture of the author svsets10
    I have been thinking of ways to leave eBay myself. I have been telling my business partner that we need to build a list instead and work off our own website. We have been having bigger and better months as of late and I just look at the fees and money we are basically throwing down the drain. There are some great ideas in this thread, I really like the idea of including a coupon in the packing slip of each package sent out.
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    • Profile picture of the author mikeb1
      I was an ebay power seller until 2008. I jumped ship to for the same reasons as the op link, the guy is certainly not whining these fools at ebay shot themselves in the foot with their dumb ass rules, and extortionate fees, and for their sister company paypal, these people always come down on the side of the buyer. I for one will rejoice when these two die they deserve too.

      I warned them that I would take my business elsewhere if they did not stop restricting the amount of items I could list in a month they did not even respond,6 months after I shut up shop they were all over me like a rash, offering me free listings etc, and wondering why I had not made any listings in a while, they do not know there ar## from their elbows. Hope the die soon
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  • Profile picture of the author lollobrigida
    I think the main lesson to be learned from this story is that you shouldn't rely on one single business model. Even more if that single business model relies on third parties that can change their rules and policies any time.

    Sometimes I think that although we work online...we tend to think that our business ideas, once set up and running, will stay in business like offline brick and mortar businesses that could be handed down from one generation to the next.
    Reality is that the online world changes at such a fast pace that if you don't manage to make adjustments and shifts you won't be able to stay in business. If - because of all the work you put in your business or for whatever reason - you fail to see beyond your nose... fail to see the big picture and where stuff is moving to and last but not least fail to learn new things... your will be out of business at the same fast pace the online world is moving.
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  • Profile picture of the author grover69
    To me it's just sad that ebay keeps biting the hand that feeds, but we are seeing this all over the place lately. Google, Hubpages, Squidoo, Facebook...it's just going to get worse if it eve gets better.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsstuff
    Ebay stock in January was about $32. It is now about $45. That does not sound like a company "circling the drain" or in an avalanche to its downfall.

    I still sell on ebay. Only about $30 to $40 a day in profit, but I'm not as serious as when I made my full time living there.

    It is more difficult to make a lot of money there, but it is alway more difficult to in a lot of areas of our economy. Engineers now work at McDonalds etc. Everything has changed including ebay.

    I used to be "RAH RAH" ebay and told everyone to sell on ebay for extra cash. Now, I seldom recommend them to anyone.
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      Originally Posted by bobsstuff View Post

      Ebay stock in January was about $32. It is now about $45. That does not sound like a company "circling the drain" or in an avalanche to its downfall.

      I still sell on ebay. Only about $30 to $40 a day in profit, but I'm not as serious as when I made my full time living there.

      It is more difficult to make a lot of money there, but it is alway more difficult to in a lot of areas of our economy. Engineers now work at McDonalds etc. Everything has changed including ebay.

      I used to be "RAH RAH" ebay and told everyone to sell on ebay for extra cash. Now, I seldom recommend them to anyone.
      I don't feel that you can look at an online based companies stock price and determine the quality of their business, how they are going to sustain business in the future, and how the general public feels about the company.

      It's not "some" of the big sellers that don't sell on eBay anymore, it's "Most" of the old school powersellers that don't sell exclusively on eBay anymore, and if they do, its only a branch - some don't do it at all. Many have shifted to Amazon exclusively. When I worked with a local company called BHFO they were grossing something like $4 million a year and were one of eBays favorite success stories, and then by 2009 when I worked with them again, they realized they couldn't pay their overhead of their facility and their employees wages (which was very minimal) and many people told them "You need your own site." - so they had to venture away from eBay or figure out how to further reduce their overhead. Probably 9 out of 10 sellers minimize further and thus their business gets smaller until they reach the point where its like "We're killing ourselves, the only profit margin is that 8% (for a TRS) that we are paying eBay, why do this anymore?" - and then they stop. BHFO had to build their own site, invest in SEO which is isn't as easy as "Heres $100,000, make people see my items, " and then set and forget. Most large sellers today are multi-channel, not because they want to be, but because they have to be. eBay seriously does not have the kind of buying traffic that it did years ago.

      The truth to eBays slow failure is that eBay didn't know what it wanted to be. When Meg Whitman controlled everything, it was all about being the leader in the auction market place. When John Donahue stepped in, it was all about "Being the next Amazon" - You can't just say "hey, we are going to be the next Walmart" when Walmart is still around kicking everyones ass. So they focused a lot more on B2C, instead of C2C which is what eBay used to be. Eventually, a couple million people lost their accounts and unfortunately lost their reliance on eBay. This is when it became more about Buy it Now (which you have to pay more fore) - and then offering Free Shipping. If you don't offer Free Shipping, Mr. eBay has a funny way of screwing your DSR scores up until you can no longer sell on eBay. By the way, even if you charge your customers for shipping - you are still paying the fees for the Item AND Shipping. Talk about screwing your seller over.

      eBay is old. Their design is old. How they learn to understand their buyers and sellers is old. Their business model is old and that's why eBay got its ass kicked in China by Alibaba and TaoBao, and they don't charge a listing fee at all. What Jack Ma (owner of AliBaba) did, is he made things function with the seller and the buyer in mind. As soon as cell phones became popular, he integrated a messaging service. You are free to contact the seller and ask questions and it shows when the seller is online. How ******* silly is it that eBay not only does not have a p2p messaging service, but actually disallows them? How many "Items Not As Described" cases could have been prevented if eBay actually let people contact each other more quickly and more personally? eBay could easily adapt a Facebook-like advertisement system to be used to by sellers who want to pay for further advertisement, but will they? I doubt it. If they ever do, its because it will be a last ditch effort before they lose their stance in the global marketplace.
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  • Profile picture of the author grover69
    It's sad. But the fact that "Donahoe tweaking the search algorithm" shows me mos CEOs don't really know what goes on in their own business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tevis Verrett
    BUHRAVO ALL!~

    I appreciate this discussion more than you know. I have affiliate "wantrepreneurs" sharing with me that they are going to make their fortune on "fleE bay."

    I can now point them to this learned discussion of my thoughtful and wise Warrior Brothers and Sisters. . .

    Opin on wise ones, lets keep this discussion going!

    Humbled,

    Tevis
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  • Profile picture of the author UncleDearest
    I got my start on eBay and I made my living off of it for a few years. I made very good money. The catch was I worked very hard, just like working 60 hours a week at a high stress job somewhere only I made more money. I was aware of the risk early on and suffered a few set-backs with having my account limited, info verification, and worst of all was the constantly changing rules for sellers. I had to re-adjust my prices and change my listings quite a bit the last 2 years I was selling.

    I think eBay is a fantastic place for a complete newbie to start. It can familiarize you with many things like basic html, PayPal, uploading pics and many web based tasks and terms that you need to know. It can prepare a person who knows nothing to feel a lot more comfortable when the time comes to start other things like list building and affiliate marketing and dealing with webhosts, ftp, domain buying ect.

    As far as making a living on there, I would not count on it. In the end, you will get the shaft in a big way. Yes, you can make money, lots of it, but you'll end up in a very stressful situation being trapped in a "List and Ship" cycle with no time for anything else. Then one day you'll get an invasive call or worse yet find your listings are all taken down.

    I use eBay as a tool all the time for my research. I love the completed listings. You can learn a lot from them! I still sell on eBay too, but very little compared to what I used to do. Overall, I like eBay and I like both buying and selling on the site. I just wouldn't recommend anyone try to make their living off of it! I don't miss those stressful days of the past at all!
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  • Profile picture of the author fixie
    It was great at first but then came in some strange rules that protect the buyer even when the buyer is at fault, it wasn't the same since then.
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  • Profile picture of the author MNext
    Banned
    The only way I find with eBay is displaying ads from eBay on your site so that you can optimize your site according to what you want and you an sell products from eBay but you have to be yourself under its terms..
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  • Profile picture of the author MyDragonSoftware
    Started with eBay in 1998. Wow there have been a lot of changes over the years. My biggest gripes with eBay:
    1. eBay fails to recognize that eBay may be feeding someone's family. eBay plays around with fees, categories, listings, rules, etc without any regard to the effect it has on our livliehoods.
    2. eBay & PayPal fees are ridiculous! I just got an email that says eBay will start charging final value fees on shipping costs too! This is insane overhead cost that will drive more sellers off eBay. When eBay started there were few choices to market goods, but now we have plenty of places to find buyers.
    At this point I think the best use of eBay (for most sellers) is to introduce buyers to a product or service you can sell them OFF eBay .
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  • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
    eBay was a pretty solid income source up until a few years ago, when it started doing everything it could do to anger its sellers. I've had 100% feedback - with well over 600 ratings - since joining. However, I eventually lost my "Top Seller" status simply because I wasn't doing as much volume as I did the year previous. Once I lost my Top Seller status everything came crashing down. My listing went from the top half of page 1 to being buried on page 10, 11, 12, and beyond. Simply because I didn't make as many sales as they wanted. Who cares if I have over 600 positive ratings and ZERO neutral / negative ratings? Apparently not eBay.

    I'll jump for joy when eBay finally goes the way of Myspace.
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  • Profile picture of the author GforceSage
    Ebay had such a good thing going. Like a lot of big business, every time someone new in management wants to put their stamp on the business, they do something to make it less appealing to their core. The growing fees, anal rules, and take it or leave it attitude wears thin.

    The fact that they also own Paypal is discouraging. They are ripe for competition on both fronts.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi,

      This is insane overhead cost that will drive more sellers off eBay.
      I'll jump for joy when eBay finally goes the way of Myspace.
      They are ripe for competition on both fronts.
      Just like most other very large companies which have a stranglehold over a certain market, in the current business environment it is clear that they tend to prefer to squeeze the client base to raise profitability whilst angering a sub-section of those clients, as opposed to trying to keep everyone happy.

      If they try and keep everyone happy at the expense of profitability, that's when they are ripe for competition. There are new customers arriving all of the time to replace the disgruntled ones - you can be sure that eBay are studying the metrics and tweaking for an extra % here and there while also monitoring the client turnover rate.

      If they stay profitable, then they can act like Google and just buy anyone who threatens their space.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Happy more people are leaving fee bay that terrible company. They were gold in the 90's 24K pure. Well, they are rusty iron now. Funny how easy it once was to make money. I still remember selling old games. Hey, with all the new rules on fee bay it is game over.
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    • Profile picture of the author tinknocker
      Originally Posted by seobro View Post

      Happy more people are leaving fee bay that terrible company. They were gold in the 90's 24K pure. Well, they are rusty iron now. Funny how easy it once was to make money. I still remember selling old games. Hey, with all the new rules on fee bay it is game over.


      So true I remember those days well and I did ok with them back then too. I'm still an Ebay seller because I sell vintage stuff. My new items though are going to be moved to Amazon mostly.
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  • Profile picture of the author handymoney2
    I see ebay is platform used to sell a few amount of things not to the mass market. He probably failed because of his business plan for not realizing what ebay was made for.
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  • Profile picture of the author dc_publius
    Ebay is not supposed to be easy for the sellers.

    Ebay is supposed to be easy for the buyers! (Sellers will always come.)

    It looks like this guy was one of those types who lists 4000 auctions/week flooding his categories but sells only a tiny fraction of his crap.

    The fact of the matter is that Ebay is in business and their objective is to make as much money for Ebay as possible - and they are hitting new high records every year last time I checked. No one cares if some seller is getting squeezed.
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  • Profile picture of the author jockrobin
    I couldn't agree more. E bay has been out of time. In China there are so many emerging B2B, B2C platform such as Alibaba, taobao, buychina and beltal. Few commission makes goods so cheap and good service makes people tend to online shopping.
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