40 replies
I know from experience that there are serial refunders on the warrior forum. I know people will buy your stuff and then respond back with the lamest excuses to get their money back. I hear ya.

What I want to address here are the scam artists. You can call the serial refunders and people that steal your content and give it away scam artists too, ok, i get that. I agree. What I mean are the people charging anywhere from $99 to $5,000 or more for coaching programs that are just plain garbage, and walking away with your money.

I have seen a very good amount of them on the forum lately, and yes, I have been a victim of one before myself. When I complained to the guy I got the "coaching" from, (which can be summed up in about 4-5 sentences) he acted hurt like "how can you say that man." That brought me to believe that he was actually delusional to think that he HAD in fact given me a solid coaching program, or more than likely, was just trying to avoid a refund discussion. Bottom line was , I knew I wasn't getting my money back, so I just dropped the whole matter.

Here's the thing: if you start a paypal dispute or claim, and it's a digital product like a wso, a service, or coaching, paypal will NOT be giving you your money back. They do NOT honor digital transactions and give you your money back, and you will lose every time. I heard this directly from paypal, that's just their policy. They have no way of knowing who is telling the truth in that situation, and they will side with the seller every time.

The ONLY way to protect yourself is to pay via credit card, and if you get ripped off, start a chargeback. If you start a charge back, paypal may put a temporary hold on your account, but eventually, you will get your money back. so do yourself a favor: attach a good credit card to your account, and use it to fund a paypal transaction if you feel you're going to be risking money.

It helps to do due diligence on people before even taking this step, but I'm telling you right now: it's the only way I've found to protect my digital purchases.

Just found another 3 threads for coaching programs where the guys had great, flashy sales pages, and most of them have "contact me here' to discuss in one form or another, then try selling you on huge money programs.

I've been around online for a little while now, and I can tell you there are no magic buttons to making money online, period. If it looks too good to be true, guess what. It is.

I'm hoping this is going to help someone here.

Take care.


p.s. if you get scammed on the forum, make sure you report it to warrior forum support. After they get repeated claims of scam artists, they are good about shutting at least THAT ID down.
#avoid #scammed
  • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
    Banned
    Hey Matt,

    This is a good piece of advice and a reminder to serial refunders. Some are doing this already though.
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  • Profile picture of the author vCr8
    hey Matt, great share with the work around to get refunds on digital products. I don't have the need to use it though but it definitely is a great info to have just in case. I agree with you, there are no magic buttons here, just right attitude, technique, patience and sometimes a bit of luck. You surely get wiser as you get older in this business.
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    • Profile picture of the author GMD
      Banned
      Personally, I think the best way to not get scammed is to NOT pay good money for any kind of coaching.

      First, even with a good reputation, crap happens, and a coach can run with the money at any time -- regardless of previous good behavior.

      Second (and lastly), why pay for a coach? If they can figure out whatever it is that they're teaching now, you can figure it out too on your own.

      Lots of "coaches" are in the game to make money from, yes, coaching!

      And of course some coaches actually have something interesting or valuable to teach. But right or wrong, I'm a big believer in the concept that if you REALLY had something valuable to teach that's gonna make a lot of money, you're not gonna share it with the world for "coaching fees".

      Just stay away and learn things on your own. You won't get scammed.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I know Paypal says that's their policy but I have won more than a couple of disputes/claims that were a digital product, so it's not all black and white and Paypal doesn't tell you what other factors are taken into consideration.
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    • Profile picture of the author mattjay
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I know Paypal says that's their policy but I have won more than a couple of disputes/claims that were a digital product, so it's not all black and white and Paypal doesn't tell you what other factors are taken into consideration.
      interesting. there's more than a couple I wish I would have won
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    ...it should be noted i am not putting threads up to help serial refunders

    Fact is, just about every product sold here on the forum has a money back guarantee. No doubt that there are people coming here to get stuff for free and share it with everyone else. This is directed at the people that get taken advantage of, that's all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Not all coaching is bad. I have paid $200 to $400 for coaching programs, and they were great.

    How can you make a judgment on any coaching WSO unless you have gone through the coaching? You are making wild generalizatins, and ALL generalizations are false. (That's called humor)

    That being said, there ARE scams out there, so each buyer needs to do their own due diligence. Part of that diligence includes purchasing with a credit card if you aren't willing to lose your money.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    thanks for that thought. no, not all coaching IS garbage, and I'm not making that assumption here. Generally speaking if it LOOKS too good to be true, it is. I'm just pointing out a way to be careful that maybe not everyone is aware of, that's all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by mattjay View Post

      thanks for that thought. no, not all coaching IS garbage, and I'm not making that assumption here. Generally speaking if it LOOKS too good to be true, it is. I'm just pointing out a way to be careful that maybe not everyone is aware of, that's all.
      I see what you're saying, Matt.

      People really do need to be careful about falling for hype. "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is," is a good quote for people to keep in mind when making purchases.

      Doing due diligence and protecting yourself financially are smart things to do. In a way, it's kind of sad that a post like this needs to be made. Not so much because there are scammers out there (though that is a shame), but because people aren't aware that they could be scammed.

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    I would love to post some examples of scams I've found but I don't think the mods would allow it
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by mattjay View Post

      I would love to post some examples of scams I've found but I don't think the mods would allow it
      No, that would violate Rule #1 of the forum. The approach in your OP is about the best you can do. Hopefully it will get through to a few people.

      ~Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
        Great information Matt - I think most people have been scammed at one time or another. It's not fun and it is very frustrating. If these scammers would spend their time actually doing something, oh I don't know, maybe WORK, they'd be much better off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Leveragist
    All I can say is do your due diligence. I've paid my $$$ share of coaching/training (not on WF). I have no regrets about any of them because I knew exactly what I was getting before I paid. They were all from reputable people whose work and results are easily verifiable.

    Jeanne
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    right right. Another good thing to do is look PAST The first page on the post. Most of the time it takes a minute for scammers to get banned from the forum. You can sometimes find a lot of people complaining on the second page of a post about being scammed.
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    • Profile picture of the author SEOAdvice
      Hey,

      As a current victim involved in a dispute, I can say that, in the past, I have lost money on purchases of digital items through Paypal (because they were digital), and have also won disputes on purchases through Paypal, in spite of them being digital.

      It is true that Paypal tends to side with the vendor and rub their hands of you, the buyer, if your purchase was a digital item, that's a widely-known fact.
      On the other hand, they are under a LOT of pressure to protect consumers from scams, from various bodies (credit card companies, consumer organizations, etc), so in very obvious scam or fraud situations, they WILL refund, even if the item sold was a service or a digital product.

      There are many factors which can make a difference, such as a vendor offering a written, verifiable, refund or money-back guarantee, a vendor scamming multiple buyers at once, how buyer's process the disputes, etc

      The point is, if you are a buyer, and the product was NOT a physical item, it is NOT a given that you have lost your money, but you do have less chances of recovering it.

      The only SOLID guarantee of your ability to recover your money in a digital service or item purchase, is to either buy through merchants like Clickbank (who WILL honor refund guarantees), or to purchase using a credit card, and then take advantage of the guarantees and protection which credit card companies offer to their consumers.

      Note there is an important distinction here between credit cards and debit cards. Purchases made with the largest credit cards (Visa, Mastercard, American express, Diner's, etc) carry STRONG consumer protection and generous consumer rights.
      Debit cards issued by banks directly, banking networks, and similar, such as Maestro, Switch, and others), tend to offer ZERO protection.
      Debit cards issued by banks, but backed by Visa or Mastercard (Visa Electron, and others), are a grey area. Over the years, I have been covered for fraudulent purchases made with one of these cards (although the card was physically stolen), and with others, have discovered I had no protection.

      In summary, if you consistently ask for refunds, you will get some, you won't get others, you will be branded a serial refunder and blacklisted, and possibly lose your PP account along with other accounts. Purchasing with the sole intention of using what you purchased and then requesting a refund for it, after use, is FRAUD.

      On the other hand, if you purchase with a genuine intention to use the product you are purchasing, and then find that the vendor is fraudulent (does not deliver or just plain disappears), or that you are a victim of a scam, then, in most cases, you should get your money back, but there are more guarantees of that happening if you make those purchases with a credit card.

      The final scenario is the one which "should" be the most common - you made an error in your purchase, the product did not perform as advertised, or it did not fit your needs, but both you, as the buyer, AND the vendor, are both genuine. In this scenario, forget disputes, there is NO NEED for them, just contact the vendor, and it should all be sorted out amicably, resulting in further enhancement of the vendor's reputation, and in you, as a buyer, recovering either your funds, or receiving the correct item.

      I am particularly delighted that this thread was opened, too much of what goes on here gets buried, making it very difficult for people to see warnings in time to heed them, and also making it difficult for victims to "find" each other and be able to gather the information necessary to prove they have been victims, so THANK YOU!
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    With most credit card companies the only way they will accept a chargeback is if you tell them you did not authorize the charge in the 1st place. Their policy is for you to work with the merchant in a case where you are unhappy.

    So, by starting a chargeback process you may be committing fraud. I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author JayParker
    Thanks for the tips about the serial refunders, I should take that into consideration in my own business (in other niches).
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    well, you can't file a chargeback and get your money back in 1 minute. however, if you are ripped off, and you can provide evidence supporting that claim, you generally will eventually get your money back if you go around filing chargebacks once a day, I think you would be in trouble...
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOAdvice
    Mate,

    Number one rule on this forum is that you are not allowed to "out" someone you have a dispute with. It must either be resolved with that member in private, or you need to contact either a MOD or WF Support.

    I suggest you quickly edit your post and remove the username from it, just replace with XXXXXX's, to avoid any issues.

    Once you've done that, if you can't get hold of this person, or they don't respond to your requests, use the RED links bar near the top of the page, select Help Desk, and open a support ticket.

    The more information/evidence you can provide support with, the better they will be able to help you, and they are keen to protect users on this forum, so you can be assured they will deal with your issues promptly (they cannot fix everything, obviously, and have no access to your funds, but, if you have been scammed, they will most certainly help you as much as it is possible for them to do so).

    Good luck, hope it gets sorted for you!

    Originally Posted by sunnyinoz View Post

    Ive just been scammed by a person who promised to build me a money making website ("XXXXXXXXX" is his username) - it made about .4c and he is refusing to give me my money back despite his 'guarantee' of customer satisfaction etc. I can only surmise that most the good feedback about him is doctored and false - or maybe he actually does manage to get it right sometimes ... How do I report him?
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  • Good thread. As always folks buyer beware.

    As far as the serial refunders (what a scummy thing to do), is there any recourse for the WSO author?

    Maybe we could come up with some way to keep track of refunders and ban them?

    People are already selling there work with a special offer, they deserve to not get there hard work basically stolen.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    you can use warrior plus and they have a "blacklist" feature to keep that person from buying from you ever again.
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    • Originally Posted by mattjay View Post

      you can use warrior plus and they have a "blacklist" feature to keep that person from buying from you ever again.
      Thanks for the tip!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
    Wow...... I just can't believe it. I have paid $500 for a coaching program and I have more than made my money back. I believe it depends on the student and their ability to create their own system based on the info provided. I am sorry you don't just charge 5k for coaching and then disappear into the night with 10 sales.

    I hear that a lot about everything here. The WSO's, the coaching, the SEO. I just don't get it. To me the things I have purchased have only been as successful as I was committed to making them. I have found something valuable in almost everything I have purchased here. That said.... I wouldn't pay 5k for something I didn't research to the hilt. We all know what to look for, so it shouldn't be hard to avoid scams.

    Just my two.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    That's not always the case. There is that, where someone does nothing and wants a million dollars, yes. However there is plenty of straight up garbage, as well as taking your money an disappearing, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author acebingo2006
    i agree with this
    the best thing to do is to take the action yourself... even if the coach does everything for you and creates a super awesome website, guess what when he hands it to you and you have not a clue on how to make profits from it, it's useless. The only way to GO UP is to take the stair case... one small step at a time. Sometimes you fall, then you have to get back up. Internet marketing is no different... those who say it is are lying and trying to scam you.
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  • Profile picture of the author tjc5
    I agree with "mattjay"

    If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. (Lets try that again, shall we?!)


    IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, THEN IT PROBABLY IS!


    Please visit the following for more information:


    fakechecks(dot)org


    When referring to the above website, you'll want to enter it as a normal URL. In other words, don't use the phrase "(dot)," just simply put a period there instead.

    The only reason I couldn't post this site normally is because the "WarriorForum's" rules state that in order for me to post any links or images, I must first submit a count of at least 15 posts (link and image free).

    I don't want to make any waves here so I'm simply going too lament that I thinks its an unfair rules giving today's fast-paced, information-superhighway, where links are the "ties that bind us" so to speak.

    Of course, that's merely just my opinion and as such, does not violate any of this forums rules.

    Hopefully "WarriorForum" considers revising this silly restriction on posting links...

    If not, that's okay, its not my website to begin with, just thought the extra insight might be helpful in determining how best to regulate a major forum-database such as this, where so many topics of discussion are posted, day after day.
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  • Profile picture of the author redielan
    thanks ive been scammed a coule of times too
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
    It's sad to see so much mistrust out there. As a marketer, it's an incredible hurdle to overcome. Take threads like these as a lesson and remember to build strong trust elements into your marketing.

    There ARE a lot of scammers out there, but not everyone is a scammer. I think too many marketers get tarred with the same brush unfairly. I also think that some people are too quick to scream "Scam!" when they weren't scammed per se, but the product or service didn't quite live up to their expectations. (There IS a difference.) In those instances, marketers get hurt.

    As for coaching... I'm a DIY kind of person and do very well with self-study courses. I was skeptical about coaching, not sure it would be worth it. However, in 2010, I invested in actual coaching to the tune of $3K. I was THRILLED with what I got. So thrilled in fact, that I invested $8K with her again this year. I'm really happy I did it and don't regret it.

    I think the key when investing in coaching is doing your due diligence. As much as you can, make sure that 1) the coaching program really offers what you need and 2) you "click" or resonate with your coach. What are your expectations? Knowing, as specifically as possible, what your expectations are will help you choose a good coach/coaching program. It will also help you determine when you've really been scammed versus just not had your expectations met.

    Also, coaching is personal. You might have 10 coaches teaching basically the same thing, but you really only resonate with 1 or 2. If your styles and personalities clash, you'll be dissatisfied with the whole experience, even when the coach delivered what they said they would. So pick your coaches wisely.

    I invested in about 4 hours of coaching for $1K with someone who spends some time on this forum several years ago. It was 4 1-hour calls. I think I used 3 and never used the 4th hour. I couldn't put my finger on any specifics, but I just wasn't getting what I wanted/needed from her. Using the 4th call was pointless.

    I couldn't say she didn't deliver what she promised though. She did. So I had to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on.

    However, I've spent a total of $11K ($8K of it just this year) since 2010 with my current coach and have been THRILLED. A lot of it is because of who she is as a person. I really like her -- and her style and personality resonate with me. (She also teaches something NO ONE ELSE teaches, so her expertise is very unique. I literally can't get it anywhere else, which is an unusual situation.)

    Unlike info products, coaching addresses more than just the hard information. A good coach will give you personal attention (which you can't get from an e-book) and answer specific questions. They can see your blind spots. They'll hold you accountable. They'll coach you through your weak points and the days when your mindsets (attitudes and emotions) are holding you back. Those are things an e-book can't do. And mindsets are critical to business success.

    I'm now a complete convert on the value of coaching. I'm willing to invest serious money in coaching. BUT, not with very many people. I'm VERY picky. And given my DIY nature, your expertise, coaching offer, and reputation, have to be REALLY good to win my business.

    Being a solo entrepreneur can also be a lonely endeavor. A good coaching group can offer community, helping you feel like a part of something, (like a regular job or school does).

    My coach has been FABULOUS. LOVE her! Unfortunately, she'll no longer be doing business coaching after this Nov. So I'm now looking for another coach. I'm part of my local GKIC (Glazer-Kennedy Insider's Circle) group and the guy who runs it also has mastermind programs which I'll probably join soon.

    Other than doing your due diligence, I'd say pick someone with a "real" business, i.e. someone with experience and some sort of real world presence, someone who's been around a while. I WOULDN'T pick someone who appears to just have hung out his coaching shingle and slapped up a website last week.

    Since coaching is also a personal service, I'd also look for testimonials and recommendations. When buying intangible services, recommendations are even more important.

    Also, I'd test the waters first by buying an inexpensive product or service from them first, before investing big $$$. Buy their book, e-book or course first. Is it worth what you paid? Did it serve your needs? Did you receive good customer service? Buying an inexpensive product or service first will tell you a LOT.

    You can weed out a LOT of "scammers" or people who just aren't right for you by doing these things. At some point, you have to learn to trust. So first, learn from info products, then invest in coaching when you need it. Start small and go from there.

    Please just don't go around thinking everyone is a scammer or living your business life in fear of being scammed, even EXPECTING to be scammed. There ARE good people with integrity out there. You might have to dig a little bit to find them, but they're there.

    Michelle
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    • Profile picture of the author BizManRobert
      Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

      It's sad to see so much mistrust out there. As a marketer, it's an incredible hurdle to overcome. Take threads like these as a lesson and remember to build strong trust elements into your marketing.

      There ARE a lot of scammers out there, but not everyone is a scammer. I think too many marketers get tarred with the same brush unfairly. I also think that some people are too quick to scream "Scam!" when they weren't scammed per se, but the product or service didn't quite live up to their expectations. (There IS a difference.) In those instances, marketers get hurt.

      As for coaching... I'm a DIY kind of person and do very well with self-study courses. I was skeptical about coaching, not sure it would be worth it. However, in 2010, I invested in actual coaching to the tune of $3K. I was THRILLED with what I got. So thrilled in fact, that I invested $8K with her again this year. I'm really happy I did it and don't regret it.

      I think the key when investing in coaching is doing your due diligence. As much as you can, make sure that 1) the coaching program really offers what you need and 2) you "click" or resonate with your coach. What are your expectations? Knowing, as specifically as possible, what your expectations are will help you choose a good coach/coaching program. It will also help you determine when you've really been scammed versus just not had your expectations met.

      Also, coaching is personal. You might have 10 coaches teaching basically the same thing, but you really only resonate with 1 or 2. If your styles and personalities clash, you'll be dissatisfied with the whole experience, even when the coach delivered what they said they would. So pick your coaches wisely.

      I invested in about 4 hours of coaching for $1K with someone who spends some time on this forum several years ago. It was 4 1-hour calls. I think I used 3 and never used the 4th hour. I couldn't put my finger on any specifics, but I just wasn't getting what I wanted/needed from her. Using the 4th call was pointless.

      I couldn't say she didn't deliver what she promised though. She did. So I had to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on.

      However, I've spent a total of $11K ($8K of it just this year) since 2010 with my current coach and have been THRILLED. A lot of it is because of who she is as a person. I really like her -- and her style and personality resonate with me. (She also teaches something NO ONE ELSE teaches, so her expertise is very unique. I literally can't get it anywhere else, which is an unusual situation.)

      Unlike info products, coaching addresses more than just the hard information. A good coach will give you personal attention (which you can't get from an e-book) and answer specific questions. They can see your blind spots. They'll hold you accountable. They'll coach you through your weak points and the days when your mindsets (attitudes and emotions) are holding you back. Those are things an e-book can't do. And mindsets are critical to business success.

      I'm now a complete convert on the value of coaching. I'm willing to invest serious money in coaching. BUT, not with very many people. I'm VERY picky. And given my DIY nature, your expertise, coaching offer, and reputation, have to be REALLY good to win my business.

      Being a solo entrepreneur can also be a lonely endeavor. A good coaching group can offer community, helping you feel like a part of something, (like a regular job or school does).

      My coach has been FABULOUS. LOVE her! Unfortunately, she'll no longer be doing business coaching after this Nov. So I'm now looking for another coach. I'm part of my local GKIC (Glazer-Kennedy Insider's Circle) group and the guy who runs it also has mastermind programs which I'll probably join soon.

      Other than doing your due diligence, I'd say pick someone with a "real" business, i.e. someone with experience and some sort of real world presence, someone who's been around a while. I WOULDN'T pick someone who appears to just have hung out his coaching shingle and slapped up a website last week.

      Since coaching is also a personal service, I'd also look for testimonials and recommendations. When buying intangible services, recommendations are even more important.

      Also, I'd test the waters first by buying an inexpensive product or service from them first, before investing big $$$. Buy their book, e-book or course first. Is it worth what you paid? Did it serve your needs? Did you receive good customer service? Buying an inexpensive product or service first will tell you a LOT.

      You can weed out a LOT of "scammers" or people who just aren't right for you by doing these things. At some point, you have to learn to trust. So first, learn from info products, then invest in coaching when you need it. Start small and go from there.

      Please just don't go around thinking everyone is a scammer or living your business life in fear of being scammed, even EXPECTING to be scammed. There ARE good people with integrity out there. You might have to dig a little bit to find them, but they're there.

      Michelle

      Hey Michelle

      Your post gave members here some SOUND Advice....Thanks

      I'm exactly like You when the 'subject' of coaching comes up... "I'm a DIY kind of person and do very well with self-study courses"

      Recently I purchased a lot of Dan Kennedy's materials, which I'm presently studying, and I must say I cannot put this stuff down...not only is it addictive...it is EXCELLENT...Dan is simply Amazing!

      Now I thought I'd never say this...but here is 0ne guy that I would like as a coach, the only thing is...I coundn't aford his fee and I expect Dan has a year or so waiting list...but that's no surprise(biz people queuing up for his coaching services) as Dan has been down a long and winding road and worked hard to get to this level - as he says if he can do it so can anybody - wise words indeed from a great marketer
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      ''Discover How To Make $19,289 In Just 30 Days From Biz Owners Begging You To Take Their Money!''

      "Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition." ~ Steve Jobs (RIP)
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      • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
        Robert,

        I'm a huge Dan Kennedy fan too. I have a lot of his stuff and have been studying it since I was 19, when I stumbled onto an old Magnetic Marketing kit left in the real estate office where I worked.

        I can't afford him either, but if you have a local GKIC group nearby, go! It's great to get involved with them and everything is based on Dan's stuff. Very affordable. My "local" group is an hour away (down in Miami), but it's worth it. I love hanging with people who "get it." (So many don't!)

        Dan Kennedy is a good example of someone who's at the top of his field and has high integrity. Jeff Walker (of Product Launch Formula) is another one. And there are many, many others.

        My point is that these kinds of people are out there and worth every penny. You DON'T have to worry about being "scammed." Frankly, you're not worth their time and trouble to scam. They're building something much bigger.

        A lot of times, when people look at them, they get sticker shock. Then, instead of complaining about being scammed, they're complaining about how they "can't afford it" and why does everything have to be out of their price range??? (Why can't the big expert give away his time and expertise???)

        Again, I'd say start small. Read their blogs. Subscribe to their newsletter. (Dan's is just $19.95/mo and you'll get the best info anywhere.) Save and invest in the $997 or $1997 product. USE it. Join a GROUP coaching program (less expensive than one on one). Then take the money you make and invest in coaching and reach even bigger success.

        THAT is how you climb the ladder to success.

        Too many people here say "Everything you need can be found on Google [or the Warrior forum]." I disagree. Yes, a LOT of info can be found on Google or right here on the forum. But there's a LOT of behind-the-scenes stuff Google can't tell you. (What to say to a potential joint venture partner to get them to partner with you, for example.)

        Mostly though, Google is like a giant BARN full of puzzle pieces. Sure, the info's there. But how long is it going to take you to piece it together??? Time is money and business is moving at a continuously accelerating speed. By the time you figure it out, it will be obsolete! Invest in at least one good comprehensive IM course. It will save you a TON of time and money in the long run. (My mentor's marketing course is just $295. Cheap!)

        Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

        Bottom line: If you want it bad enough, you'll figure it out. If you don't, you won't.

        Michelle


        Originally Posted by BizManRobert View Post

        Hey Michelle

        Your post gave members here some SOUND Advice....Thanks

        I'm exactly like You when the 'subject' of coaching comes up... "I'm a DIY kind of person and do very well with self-study courses"

        Recently I purchased a lot of Dan Kennedy's materials, which I'm presently studying, and I must say I cannot put this stuff down...not only is it addictive...it is EXCELLENT...Dan is simply Amazing!

        Now I thought I'd never say this...but here is 0ne guy that I would like as a coach, the only thing is...I coundn't aford his fee and I expect Dan has a year or so waiting list...but that's no surprise(biz people queuing up for his coaching services) as Dan has been down a long and winding road and worked hard to get to this level - as he says if he can do it so can anybody - wise words indeed from a great marketer
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        "You can't market here. This is a marketing discussion forum!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark72
    Thanks for the info.

    I always try to purchase everything through paypal on a credit card - not only to provide an extra layer of protection, but to keep all my outgoings separate on the credit card statement.

    If doing this you need to remember to change the payment method when paying with paypal though, because it's set to come directly out of your bank account by default.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue Nelson
    Banned
    Geeting scammed is one of the most unpleasant things that can happen to you and you really need to pay extra attention to everything that you plann to do.

    I think everything you shared here is of great help. There are som any situations in which scammers can get advantage either of your trust or your lack of attention.
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  • Profile picture of the author shuwangyan
    I recently buy website :::printing£ªdesign-Àμ⣪µðÀÚÀÎ::: at flippa.com,and I want a refund from paypal,and I lost the case.Although the actual situations are far different from the descriptions in the auction,PayPal told me ,they cannot help me.So,I will never pay by paypal in this kind of transaction in the future
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  • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
    Originally Posted by mattjay View Post

    I know from experience that there are serial refunders on the warrior forum. I know people will buy your stuff and then respond back with the lamest excuses to get their money back. I hear ya.

    What I want to address here are the scam artists. You can call the serial refunders and people that steal your content and give it away scam artists too, ok, i get that. I agree. What I mean are the people charging anywhere from $99 to $5,000 or more for coaching programs that are just plain garbage, and walking away with your money.

    I have seen a very good amount of them on the forum lately, and yes, I have been a victim of one before myself. When I complained to the guy I got the "coaching" from, (which can be summed up in about 4-5 sentences) he acted hurt like "how can you say that man." That brought me to believe that he was actually delusional to think that he HAD in fact given me a solid coaching program, or more than likely, was just trying to avoid a refund discussion. Bottom line was , I knew I wasn't getting my money back, so I just dropped the whole matter.

    Here's the thing: if you start a paypal dispute or claim, and it's a digital product like a wso, a service, or coaching, paypal will NOT be giving you your money back. They do NOT honor digital transactions and give you your money back, and you will lose every time. I heard this directly from paypal, that's just their policy. They have no way of knowing who is telling the truth in that situation, and they will side with the seller every time.

    The ONLY way to protect yourself is to pay via credit card, and if you get ripped off, start a chargeback. If you start a charge back, paypal may put a temporary hold on your account, but eventually, you will get your money back. so do yourself a favor: attach a good credit card to your account, and use it to fund a paypal transaction if you feel you're going to be risking money.

    It helps to do due diligence on people before even taking this step, but I'm telling you right now: it's the only way I've found to protect my digital purchases.

    Just found another 3 threads for coaching programs where the guys had great, flashy sales pages, and most of them have "contact me here' to discuss in one form or another, then try selling you on huge money programs.

    I've been around online for a little while now, and I can tell you there are no magic buttons to making money online, period. If it looks too good to be true, guess what. It is.

    I'm hoping this is going to help someone here.

    Take care.


    p.s. if you get scammed on the forum, make sure you report it to warrior forum support. After they get repeated claims of scam artists, they are good about shutting at least THAT ID down.
    How did you know the coaching program was bad???
    I mean if the creator was upset at your refund maybe it's because it's been doing well and you were the first to ask for a refund.

    I've had the same experience when I sold used books. Rarely had any books lost in the postal systems, rarely had any complaints on the quality, so when a customer comes along and says they had those problems my bs meter always goes off. Not to say they were wrong/right, but when you operate on almost complete customer satisfaction and 1 has a problem most likely the problem has more to do with them than the product.

    Other interesting things:
    Never had any problems when selling Expensive Items if anyone had an issue they contacted me and it was resolved.

    Now the lower priced items I've found to have more headaches, people not getting their own mailing addresses correct, not reading the descriptions before they buy, more claims of items lost in the mail, bad reviews even though I do issue refunds for problem items, bad email addresses, etc.

    If I had a choice I rather sell the more expensive items then to deal with the low end any day.
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  • Profile picture of the author MilkerFocus
    Thanks, mattjay.
    There are no magic button.
    If you want to success, you need to know why is the fact.
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  • Profile picture of the author fatcitygirl
    Great info! There are A LOT of crap WSOs and I always check more than just this forum for info and reviews on a product before purchasing.
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  • Totally agree. If you feel you are about to be ripped off, chances are you will be. Always verify the feedback these services offer if they are legit. Otherwise, you might end up losing your much-earned money for nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dimitris Skiadas
    Thanks for the heads up. It's really sad when you know it's not your fault but you get to pay the price.

    I think that every marketer has been some time been ripped off.One way or another.

    Dimitris
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    • Profile picture of the author quesquaya
      I'm amazed that this sort of thing (serial refunders) happens here. Some of this stuff is so cheap and even though it may not be a magnum opus, there's always a couple of nuggets of wisdom that you didn't know, and it helps. On another note, I was talking to one seller who's had one of her works ripped off . Meanwhile, the cost of her product?? $10 bucks!! Why would anyone steal something for $10 bucks.. Incredible.
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I know Paypal says that's their policy but I have won more than a couple of disputes/claims that were a digital product, so it's not all black and white and Paypal doesn't tell you what other factors are taken into consideration.
      I tried once and they turned me down, i called and i got same explanation as OP.
      "Sorry, we (Paypal) don't refund on digital product purchases"...
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