Settle an argument for me?

Paul Myers 14 years ago

Jason,

If you admit it's not good, then why were you looking for something similar in this thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/wanted-m...launchers.html

I can think of several legitimate uses for that kind of list. A few less-than-kosher ones, too. But that's hardly as cut and dry as the spamware in question.

Paul
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JasonParker

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JaRyCu

If you admit it's not good, then why were you looking for something similar in this thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/wanted-m...launchers.html

Just out of curiosity....

-- j

Lol... I'm not looking to spam anybody, just looking to grow my JV partnerships. It helps to know who the big players are that you've never heard of.

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Walter Parrish

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Lol... I'm not looking to spam anybody, just looking to grow my JV partnerships. It helps to know who the big players are that you've never heard of.

It's funny how people assume that the tools will be misused. Back when the affiliate thing was initially taking off I was around and I will tell all this new stuff would have been considered unethical. It was only the big sites back then who may have had 25 to 50 backlinks, writing an article just to get more traffic wasn't a thought, blogs didn't exist, and uhhh the social network was probably only AOL or Prodigy or something and you would just mention your site, not make 1600 friends lol.

I can just see it 10 yrs down the road when these tools will be standard and email will be setup to filter what you want and don't want to read according to your preferences.

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TheEye

14 years ago

There are things virtually everybody considers to be O.K and these are labelled white.

There are things people have differing opinions on, they are labelled grey.

And there are things that virtually everybody agrees are not O.K. these are labelled black.

Nobody on this thread has defended the actual software. Therefore why should we be lending our name and reputation to it?

We don't allow people to put poison into milk. Some things are just totally unacceptable.

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Walter Parrish

It's funny how people assume that the tools will be misused.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might not actually BE a duck, but that's the smart money bet...

And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.

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Rod Cortez

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might not actually BE a duck, but that's the smart money bet...

And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.

And if it TASTES like Peking duck, it probably is....

RoD

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JasonParker 14 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.

This also occurs when you choose to hunt with Dick Cheney.
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- TCWalker 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JasonParker
  
  This also occurs when you choose to hunt with Dick Cheney.
  
  And if he asks you to walk in front of him, just ask him to shoot you right then and there. If he asks you to walk by him, always walk 4 steps back and be prepared duck for cover.
  
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- IMSince2003 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JasonParker
  
  This also occurs when you choose to hunt with Dick Cheney.
  
  Sheesh, shoot just ONE guy and nobody lets you forget it....
  
  1) Spamware.
  2) You get the smackdown.
  
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Walter Parrish

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might not actually BE a duck, but that's the smart money bet...

And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.

honestly, I still don't see it. I have like pages of lists on my hard drive, and some other services. it's a pain in the azz to cut and copy and manipulate by hand.

Give me the names of some tools that can help with that??? that aren't considered grey or black???

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Walter Parrish

honestly, I still don't see it. I have like pages of lists on my hard drive, and some other services. it's a pain in the azz to cut and copy and manipulate by hand.

Give me the names of some tools that can help with that??? that aren't considered grey or black???

I've openly admitted being a control freak, so I know I don't outsource as much work as I could.

But that kind of work is perfectly suited to a good database person who already has the tools and knowledge to take 'pages of lists' and manipulate them to specification.

The last time I did this, I got back a spreadsheet with some macros coded in. Took the guy less than an hour to cobble together. Made the sort, copy and paste job go from hours to minutes, and most of that was 'telling' the macros what I wanted and how I wanted the output.

As far as the color of the tool, that's often applied with a broad brush - if the majority of the people using it (or even if they appear to be the majority) are doing so for black or gray purposes, said tool will be labelled as black or gray.

When someone mentions using the tool, most people will apply the label they know, and if the label is at all accurate, they'll be right more often than not.

As I said, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it just might be a goose. But 'duck' is the smart money bet...

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JasonParker 14 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

As I said, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it just might be a goose. But 'duck' is the smart money bet...

what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
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- JohnMcCabe 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JasonParker
  
  what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
  
  Sorry...
  
  Political comments are not allowed here. :p
  
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- cjreynolds 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JasonParker
  
  what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
  
  Uhhhh.... Google?
  
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- Jeffery 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JasonParker
  
  what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
  
  My Ex Wife
  
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Brad Gosse

14 years ago

Spamming tools…

Banned for life.

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joseph7384

14 years ago

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Joseph,

Another spamming tool.

Were you referring to the software or the seller?

Paul
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- aarthielumalai 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Joseph,Were you referring to the software or the seller?
  
  Paul
  
  Both the software and the seller. People like that are annoying. I don't even have the liberty of unsubscribing from their spam!
  
  So yeah, they are spammers and that person should be banned, whoever he is.
  
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Jeffery

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

Website Scraper (Unethical Website Scraper) utilized by Spamers

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?

Member response?:

Those who know better. However, a lot would probably not know any better

Personally I would like to see them warned about a ban and if they argue in the slightest jus ban them.

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HelpingYouBeAnExpert

14 years ago

People do it all the time, I don't. I like to get permission in the optin first. if you do that my question is what relationship do you have with the people who's email you scraped? My next question is if your email was scraped and you get an email sent to you what would your reaction be?

Answer those 2 questions and you should know what to do.

Good luck

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J50

14 years ago

Well since it's illegal, I'd notify the forum to cease all trading of such software or related services.

Give every member of the forum a notice period of 30 days to stop trading in such software or services, after that bans start getting issued.

I think that makes it fair, unless someone can do one better.

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Chris Chicas

14 years ago

Some people might complain and say that the WF is not open enough to such tools... thank god they are not. The few spam tools (both humans and robots) that slipped through the cracks that I had to deal with, has been bad enough. Like this nice lady I met here a while back... she hasn't stopped spamming, it's been going on for months - even after a couple of emails back and forth. I guess once you are in the system you are in the system - and this seems to be the way their minds operate, lol.

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Chris Chicas

14 years ago

I've yet to see a email scraper that is being used for good intentions.

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Angela V. Edwards 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Cee

I've yet to see a email scraper that is being used for good intentions.

I would have to agree. If a marketer is building his/her list in the correct manner, they do not need a "scraper".
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ExRat

14 years ago

Hi Paul,

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

It's not the messiah, it's a very naughty software.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?

Bloody vikings...

Originally Posted by joseph7384

Another spamming tool.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joseph,Were you referring to the software or the seller?

Originally Posted by joseph7384

The end users, there's a lot of software of this type that are created with good intent but end up being used for spamming.

I got it.

I'm not sure Joseph did...

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

It is not illegal in the US. Sending mail to addresses scraped from certain sources can trigger fines under CAN-SPAM, given certain other conditions, but spamming is not illegal here as a general rule.

I don't like that, but it's a fact. It's also a fact that spamming from the overwhelming majority of services in this country is a violation of your agreement with them. But people who are willing to spam don't really care much about anyone else's rights, including the rights of people with whom they've signed contracts.

It has been against the rules and policies of this forum to endorse, facilitate, or sell software or lists for email spamming since I first started moderating here, which is well over a decade ago. I should think that would be enough advance notice.

Some people might complain and say that the WF is not open enough to such tools...

They can go to the bulker forums and complain all they want. It will not be allowed here.

And I agree... I have never seen an address scraper that was designed for any purpose other than sending unsolicited bulk email.

Paul

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HelpingYouBeAnExpert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It is not illegal in the US. Sending mail to addresses scraped from certain sources can trigger fines under CAN-SPAM, given certain other conditions, but spamming is not illegal here as a general rule.

I don't like that, but it's a fact. It's also a fact that spamming from the overwhelming majority of services in this country is a violation of your agreement with them. But people who are willing to spam don't really care much about anyone else's rights, including the rights of people with whom they've signed contracts.

It has been against the rules and policies of this forum to endorse, facilitate, or sell software or lists for email spamming since I first started moderating here, which is well over a decade ago. I should think that would be enough advance notice.They can go to the bulker forums and complain all they want. It will not be allowed here.

And I agree... I have never seen an address scraper that was designed for any purpose other than sending unsolicited bulk email.

Paul

I don't think it matters that it's illegal it's just wrong and not good to do. I don't do scraping it's wrong IMHO. But we all have to break the law like last saturday I broke the law to get healthy illegal milk for example.

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fluffythewondercat 14 years ago

What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

I prefer Defenestration.

fLufF
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BIG Mike Banned 14 years ago

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- Paul Myers 14 years ago
  
  Walter,
  
  In all fairness I would have to say that the product and many others on WF shouldn't lead to anyone being banned or penalized.
  
  You forgot, "In my opinion."
  
  Allowing the sale of email spamming tools has consequences you probably don't know about. Consequences that would affect tens of thousands of members here. That is aside from the ethical questions involved in spamming.
  
  Mike,
  
  There are practical and legal issues that affect those decisions. Among the practical ones, the biggest is time, followed immediately by moderator experience with the topics/disciplines in question.
  
  Short of truly draconian moderation practices, the members set the tone for the discussion sections of the forum. That has always been the case, and it's more true now than ever. It's also a generally good thing.
  
  The advent of affiliate programs that work through the forum has essentially separated the advertising sections from the discussion areas. The majority of visitors to the ads are not members. They are unaware of, and properly unconcerned with, the norms of the active membership.
  
  Things change. This place used to be a community with an attached marketplace. Then it was a marketplace with an attached community. Now it's both, almost entirely separate.
  
  Paul
  
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  James Clark 14 years ago
  
  This is email harvesting software if you ask me. And someone is going to misuse it when they get their hands on it for sure. I would be willing to bet the farm on that!
  
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  JohnMcCabe 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Joseph,Were you referring to the software or the seller?
  
  Paul
  
  I'd say both.
  
  Originally Posted by Steve B
  
  What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.
  
  Steve
  
  Steve, don't look at it as a matter of choice, rather as a simple question of order...
  
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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Roger,

I got it.

I'm not sure Joseph did...

We're evil. I'm not sure Joseph is.

Paul
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- joseph7384 14 years ago
  
  [DELETED]
  
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  Paul Myers 14 years ago
  
  Joseph,
  
  Well I can tell you this, I have never used any scraper in my 9+ years online.
  
  I believe you. I wasn't talking about that kind of "evil."
  
  It was a joke. Suggesting you were calling the seller a tool. Not a flattering word to use on someone.
  
  Paul
  
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  joseph7384 14 years ago
  
  [DELETED]
  
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  fluffythewondercat 14 years ago
  
  Obviously the spamware is right out.
  
  I'm a little uneasy about the "curation" tool sold by the same WF member. Curation is the new code for content theft. I don't have a problem with people curating my content as long as they link back to my site and write their own substantive material framing a snippet of my article, but that's not what a lot of people are doing in the name of curation. Their way is just autoblogging 2.0.
  
  fLufF
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  Paul Myers 14 years ago
  
  Fluff,
  
  There's a whole lot of stuff sold here that I am "uneasy" about, along with things I would outright ban if I made the rules. But I don't. I just help enforce them.
  
  I absolutely agree with you on a lot of what is now called "curation."
  
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Suze Thomas

14 years ago

I would call it "SPAMWARE". You have to assume any software that does what your sying is designed to send spam, at some point.

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Suze,

I would call it "SPAMWARE".

The precise word I used in addressing the issue with the relevant party. Thank you. I was waiting for that.

Paul
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KickAss Marketing

14 years ago

Well I guess you're talking about Web-scraping software. Or some spider or bot or something :-D.

Anyway, it's not really illegal in its entirety but it may cause some serious legal and financial consequences for you if you don't use such software carefully and correctly. Also, a lot of people really and I mean STRONGLY disagree to their personal information being acquired by some software and used somewhere without their permission or knowledge of some sort so be very careful. I would say never to use one but everybody has their own reasons. :-)

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

everybody has their own reasons.

Yes, they can rationalize spamming as a whole lot of things that make it sound reasonable. Right up until you look at the inevitable consequences.

Paul
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MatthewWoodward

14 years ago

I'm sure in the UK it is legal to target business owners in this way, but its all down to how you use it.

If you were going to use such a tool to find guest posting oppertunitys and not send millions of pointless untargeted emails then I doubt you would have a problem.

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Matthew,

This is the thread in question.

Tell me if you think that software is designed to be used for legitimate purposes.

Paul

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Walter Parrish 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Matthew,

This is the thread in question.

Tell me if you think that software is designed to be used for legitimate purposes.

Paul

It's amazing how some of these guys make spamware look legitimate. This is the reason why a lot of newbies get in trouble. It's not necessarily the fact that they did something wrong. It's just that they aren't aware that the tools their using are bad and do bad things.
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Walter Parrish

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Matthew,

This is the thread in question.

Tell me if you think that software is designed to be used for legitimate purposes.

Paul

I've thought about the whole thing and I'm going to say this.

In all fairness I would have to say that the product and many others on WF shouldn't lead to anyone being banned or penalized. Considering that it's an environment where other software that are similar don't appear to have been a problem in the past. I'm looking at this thread and wonder if it was ever questioned.

I'm an avid wso browser and have noticed many different types of softwares, guru courses and the whole. A lot of stuff looks like it's straight plr. I've seen Guru's come out with WSO's and a few weeks behind theirs a rash of WSO's that appear to be covering the same area exactly. My point is how can you come down hard on One and not come down hard on the Other? If Bob, John, and Jamie launch a software program and it flies as a WSO at the beginning of the year. How can you come down on Henry's software program that does something similar?

What I'm saying is while working on the program he probably used the others as a guideline as to what's acceptable. I recently purchased a program that creates video's from text files and adds music. The program I think came out end of 2011, about a month ago some other guy released a program that did the same thing. Both of the programs looked similar except it appears the second got perfected his at least as far as copy writing, and functionality.

Anyway, I say all that to say, that this is judgement call I wouldn't make. Those programs are like knives and guns. You can use a gun to hunt for food or to kill someone. You can use a knife to cut bread or stab someone, but at the end of the day. It all depends upon the individual.

From my view they both have to stay and no one should be penalized. If there is a question or a problem. Then new rules need to be made that people can abide by.

Just My 100 cents.

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Snowflame

13 years ago

I know this is an old thread but I came to it while searching for info' on Atomic Email Hunter.
I am a newbie to IM so please make allowances in the following statement.

I tend to agree with those who have said that it depends on how you use this type of program. If you can target emails where you are pretty sure they will have an interest in a particular subject/hobby etc.. then is there any harm in sending them an email with some information or offer relevant in that field?

Is it not like getting junk mail through the post? With physical junk mail I take it from the letter box and into the waste bin. I can delete spammy emails in a blink of an eye. The only personal information the spammer has used is my email address. I get junk physical mail sent to my home address all the time which I find much more disturbing.

Again, being a newbie I am probably missing some pertinent points but at the moment I can't see what the big deal is about receiving uninvited emails?

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi Snowflame,

Originally Posted by Snowflame

I tend to agree with those who have said that it depends on how you use this type of program. If you can target emails where you are pretty sure they will have an interest in a particular subject/hobby etc.. then is there any harm in sending them an email with some information or offer relevant in that field?

Is it not like getting junk mail through the post? With physical junk mail I take it from the letter box and into the waste bin. I can delete spammy emails in a blink of an eye. The only personal information the spammer has used is my email address. I get junk physical mail sent to my home address all the time which I find much more disturbing.

Again, being a newbie I am probably missing some pertinent points but at the moment I can't see what the big deal is about receiving uninvited emails?

Scale.

If it's OK for you to do it, or me, then it's OK for everyone to do it too. What if 4 million of us email you?

Can you delete 4 million emails in the blink of an eye? Is that still not a problem?

What about if we don't send you one email each? What if we send you 100 a day?

Does that explain?

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livo 13 years ago

To be honest guys it used to bother the hell out of me getting spam emails it really did but I became so used to it I kinda now know what I really want to read.In fact some of the most successful and well known Internet Marketers are guilty of using such software (you know who you are guys!)But I do agree if the messages are done in the right way and are in the interest of the receiver then I see no problem.
There has been a few cases that have in fact been beneficial to me by me one was being introduced to CPA which I had never heard of before.
The ones that really p**s me off are the ones where I unsubscribe and then get another email a day or so later.
But where do we draw the line in using software to benefit our business, you can argue forever on the rights and wrongs of such things and never find the answer.There are hundreds of similar software available right here on this forum.
And I wonder how many warriors and well known Imers use scraper software.

I have never used any scraping software as I like to build my list in what I consider the best way that works me and I would not like to get in any kind of trouble by doing anything unethical its just not worth the hassle.
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butters

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MatthewWoodward

I'm sure in the UK it is legal to target business owners in this way, but its all down to how you use it.

If you were going to use such a tool to find guest posting oppertunitys and not send millions of pointless untargeted emails then I doubt you would have a problem.

I suggest you read this Matthew: Stop Spam Emails and Unsolicited Email Marketing - ICO

More importantly... "The Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations 2003 cover the sending of email marketing. This legislation says that organisations must only send marketing emails to individuals if you have agreed to receive them, except where there is a clearly defined customer relationship."

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Kal Sallam

14 years ago

1- Call it whatever you wanna call it.

2- Banned permanently.

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Matt Frost

14 years ago

Search and spam

Like its a spammers heaven

auto ban

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Kay King 14 years ago

Looking at the listed "benefits" of

gathering contacts from....
extracting contacts from....
collecting contacts from....

My answer would be "it's crap" and "nuke'em"
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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Jason,

I know enough about (the other) Jason's approach to things to take some very good guesses as to how he'd use that list, and sending you spam isn't anywhere among them.

Jason is a networker, and one of the best. The good ones NEVER spam.

Paul

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Thaddaeus T. Hogg

14 years ago

What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

ALRIIIIIIIIIIIGHT, Paul Myers is gonna tell a joke. I cain't wait for the punchline! There ain't nothin I love more in this world than fat email jokes. Whoooo weee, they get me to laughin so hard that the trap door on my long johns falls open!!!

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Tad,

I cain't wait for the punchline!

"Do you think I'm nuts? I'd get halfway across and you'd turn off the flashlight!"

Paul
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- Thaddaeus T. Hogg 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Tad,"Do you think I'm nuts? I'd get halfway across and you'd turn off the flashlight!"
  
  Paul
  
  Flashlight? Flashlight?!?!?! You must think we is high falutin here in the holler. We don't use no flashlight! I WOULD be blowin out he candle though!
  
  I shore am sorry I stole yore thread and I will be lettin you get back to it now!
  
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DianaHeuser

14 years ago

Paul,

Pardon the newbie question but does that apply to software that scrapes the Yellow pages and Google Places as a lead generation tool for offline businesses?

I have bought two and use them to evaluate the person's website and then call them up.

Is it the same type of software?

Di

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Diana,

Pardon the newbie question but does that apply to software that scrapes the Yellow pages and Google Places as a lead generation tool for offline businesses?

If they just get the links, and you have to manually look at the sites, no. This wouldn't apply. As annoying as telemarketing is to some people, it's not at all the same thing as email spamming. The economies of scale are very different.

If they scrape email addresses, yes. They need to go.

Paul
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Steve B

14 years ago

What do you call software that scrapes email addresses? Spamware, Scrape 'n Rape, or my own personal favorite TheDevilMadeMeDoItBot

What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

Steve

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cjreynolds 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve B

What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

Steve

Actually, decapitation should be reserved for hackers (those that write viruses, malware, etc.), and castration won't work, cuz we all know spammers got nothin down there in the first place!
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Khemosabi

14 years ago

Paul and All! <Catchy, isn't it?>

Please forgive me if this is obvious to you all, but isn't selling your list, or sharing your list the same?
More directly, let's say I mistakenly bought a WSO one day, (in my defense, it sure was purty), and I naturally had to submit my email to them. Fast forward ... now, I have 6-7 more "members" sending me promotional emails for each other's WSO's. I never signed up with these people. I don't remember any fine print stating that my email was going to become public!
So, I'm a tad confused. I understand that bots (read: software), can do it enmasse, but unsolicited, is just that.
Anyone wanna clear this up for me please!!! ?????
Thanks!

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MyiMall

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Khemosabi

isn't selling your list, or sharing your list the same?

I agree - I purchase online products all the time from people I THINK are going to be respectful of my email address, so I give them my "real" email address (as opposed to a throwaway address that I rarely check). Once every year or so, my "good" email address becomes a "junk" email address because it's been sold or shared so many times that I'm on hundreds of lists. One such account receives about 300 emails a day. Unfortunately, it also receives email that I want to get, so I end up going through and mass deleting all the junk every couple of days.

Very annoying!!

Marketers - PLEASE do NOT sell or share your lists! Treat them as what they are - pure gold to your business! Selling or sharing your customer list (or prospect list, for that matter) is just stupid.

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fedor50

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MyiMall

I agree - I purchase online products all the time from people I THINK are going to be respectful of my email address, so I give them my "real" email address (as opposed to a throwaway address that I rarely check). Once every year or so, my "good" email address becomes a "junk" email address because it's been sold or shared so many times that I'm on hundreds of lists. One such account receives about 300 emails a day. Unfortunately, it also receives email that I want to get, so I end up going through and mass deleting all the junk every couple of days.

Very annoying!!

Marketers - PLEASE do NOT sell or share your lists! Treat them as what they are - pure gold to your business! Selling or sharing your customer list (or prospect list, for that matter) is just stupid.

i actually agree that selling and sharing your lists is very similar and should NOT be allowed.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

It's pretty well known that this forum doesn't support, allow or condone the use of email harvesters to send out bulk unsolicited commercial email.

It's not even up for discussion from what I've seen, not that I want to discuss it.

Typical spam machine if you ask me.

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Dragonfire Wealth

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?

Paul

I call that software a "Class D Felony" that jeopardizes the reputation and legal standing of our home the Warrior Forum

Response? A fancy little "Banned" title under their username

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lollobrigida

14 years ago

Sometimes it's a thin line between white and black... and sometimes there it a lot of blurry grey. In the case of the software in question... it certainly crosses my lines.

On a more general level... I'd say it's not the hammer (the tool) that's bad, but the person using the hammer. So there are tools out there that can very well be used for "all shades of grey" and it depends on the user.
Curation is a good example for that. It can be used for plain theft ...but it can also be used in a legit way to "quote" portions of interesting content (of course with proper links to the source) ...and provide value for everyone.

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Dragonfire Wealth

14 years ago

Originally Posted by lollobrigida

Sometimes it's a thin line between white and black... and sometimes there it a lot of blurry grey. In the case of the software in question... it certainly crosses my lines.

On a more general level... I'd say it's not the hammer (the tool) that's bad, but the person using the hammer. So there are tools out there that can very well be used for "all shades of grey" and it depends on the user.
Curation is a good example for that. It can be used for plain theft ...but it can also be used in a legit way to "quote" portions of interesting content (of course with proper links to the source) ...and provide value for everyone.

You are welcome in the NRA anytime my friend!

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Please forgive me if this is obvious to you all, but isn't selling your list, or sharing your list the same?

As far as the rules here, yes.

Selling or sharing lists of WSO buyers is grounds for banning. See the rules in the WSO section.

On a more general level... I'd say it's not the hammer (the tool) that's bad, but the person using the hammer. So there are tools out there that can very well be used for "all shades of grey" and it depends on the user.

True. I have a program that extracts email addresses from text files on my computer. I use it often.

One of the lists that make up the subscribers to my newsletter is older, and I send those emails from my desktop machine. After each issue, I collect the bounces into a folder in my emailer, sort out the ones that are permanent, and dump the contents of that folder to a text file. I then use the software to extract the bad addresses, which I remove from the subscriber list using another piece of software designed to work with address lists.

We would not allow that tool to be sold here. Its primary purpose is to extract addresses to send unsolicited email.

Paul

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goindeep 14 years ago

Scraping emails is like picking up used cigarette butts.

Pulling apart what is left of the pre-sucked on saliva, bacteria and dirt infested tobacco and rolling yourself a new ciggie.
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lollobrigida

14 years ago

@dragon
hmm...maybe I should have added "as long as the tool is legal".

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Reinie

14 years ago

Ban for sure

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

I prefer Defenestration.

fLufF
--

For me, that depends on how high the window is and what the landing surface is like. Three feet into a lush lawn ain't quite harsh enough, IMO.

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aarthielumalai

14 years ago

It's spam. Doing stuff like that is against the law, isn't it? Shouldn't you have the permission of your receiver before you promote to them?

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PsycFa

14 years ago

Email scrapers are spambots; the majority of people out there will tell you the same. I installed anti-spam on my emails just because of that. And I absolutely hate it; especially those "VIAGRA PILLS"...

That is why never do the mistake i did before in a previous forum; post your email add in the open

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mojojuju

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings,

An Email harvester.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

Spam-O-Matic 2000!

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?
Paul

Give them a free banner advertisement on the forum as a reward for producing such an awesome program that makes the world a much better place?

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dadhere

14 years ago

yes, it has a low respect level and banning would be inevitable

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lollobrigida 14 years ago

Originally Posted by dadhere

yes, it has a low respect level and banning would be inevitable

...you mean hunting with Dick Cheney? I certainly agree!

(argh...just couldn't resist)
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Ken Leatherman

14 years ago

After looking at the thread Paul was referring to, in my not so humble opinion, castration, decapitation and possible defoliation of his yard should work. At least hopefully some others would decide, its not in their best interest to try to sale this type of software on the WF.

Good decision Paul on closing the thread.

Ken Leatherman

The Old Geezer

P.S. Permanent Banning could work too.

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Chris Silvey

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?

Paul

Illegal under Can Spam - 25 buck fine per scraped email on top of Can Spam Infractions.

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RedShifted

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?

Paul

I would say they are called "spam bots" but I would also say the same thing about pinterest bots that are already being sold on WF. The end goal with each is the same, spam people.

But somehow the pinterest people have convinced WF that these bots can be used for other noble causes... which I'm yet to figure out.

You could technically say the same thing about email scrapers no? Maybe I'm just collecting addresses to save them? It doesn't seem likely sure, but it still seems as likely as people using pinterest bots for non-spam reasons.

I'm sure I'm twisting things around but my mind seems to be stuck on this concept atm.

-Red

ps. I'm not trying to stir an arguement I'm just saying when you type in "pinterest bots" into google you get MANY blackhat references for spamming. The reason why they're treated differently I suppose you can just builder a stronger arguement against spamming, as irrelevant as that arguement would be in the real world.

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