Settle an argument for me?

81 replies
Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?


Paul
#argument #settle
  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    1) Spambots

    2) Ban Hammer
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?
    I'm guessing not good.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Jason,
        If you admit it's not good, then why were you looking for something similar in this thread:

        http://www.warriorforum.com/wanted-m...launchers.html
        I can think of several legitimate uses for that kind of list. A few less-than-kosher ones, too. But that's hardly as cut and dry as the spamware in question.


        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

        If you admit it's not good, then why were you looking for something similar in this thread:

        http://www.warriorforum.com/wanted-m...launchers.html

        Just out of curiosity....

        -- j
        Lol... I'm not looking to spam anybody, just looking to grow my JV partnerships. It helps to know who the big players are that you've never heard of.
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        • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          Lol... I'm not looking to spam anybody, just looking to grow my JV partnerships. It helps to know who the big players are that you've never heard of.
          It's funny how people assume that the tools will be misused. Back when the affiliate thing was initially taking off I was around and I will tell all this new stuff would have been considered unethical. It was only the big sites back then who may have had 25 to 50 backlinks, writing an article just to get more traffic wasn't a thought, blogs didn't exist, and uhhh the social network was probably only AOL or Prodigy or something and you would just mention your site, not make 1600 friends lol.

          I can just see it 10 yrs down the road when these tools will be standard and email will be setup to filter what you want and don't want to read according to your preferences.
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          • Profile picture of the author TheEye
            There are things virtually everybody considers to be O.K and these are labelled white.

            There are things people have differing opinions on, they are labelled grey.

            And there are things that virtually everybody agrees are not O.K. these are labelled black.

            Nobody on this thread has defended the actual software. Therefore why should we be lending our name and reputation to it?

            We don't allow people to put poison into milk. Some things are just totally unacceptable.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

              It's funny how people assume that the tools will be misused.
              If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might not actually BE a duck, but that's the smart money bet...

              And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.
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              • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might not actually BE a duck, but that's the smart money bet...

                And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.
                And if it TASTES like Peking duck, it probably is....

                RoD
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              • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


                And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.
                This also occurs when you choose to hunt with Dick Cheney.
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              • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might not actually BE a duck, but that's the smart money bet...

                And if you're going to fly with ducks, you should expect to get shot at.
                honestly, I still don't see it. I have like pages of lists on my hard drive, and some other services. it's a pain in the azz to cut and copy and manipulate by hand.

                Give me the names of some tools that can help with that??? that aren't considered grey or black???
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                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                  Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

                  honestly, I still don't see it. I have like pages of lists on my hard drive, and some other services. it's a pain in the azz to cut and copy and manipulate by hand.

                  Give me the names of some tools that can help with that??? that aren't considered grey or black???
                  I've openly admitted being a control freak, so I know I don't outsource as much work as I could.

                  But that kind of work is perfectly suited to a good database person who already has the tools and knowledge to take 'pages of lists' and manipulate them to specification.

                  The last time I did this, I got back a spreadsheet with some macros coded in. Took the guy less than an hour to cobble together. Made the sort, copy and paste job go from hours to minutes, and most of that was 'telling' the macros what I wanted and how I wanted the output.

                  As far as the color of the tool, that's often applied with a broad brush - if the majority of the people using it (or even if they appear to be the majority) are doing so for black or gray purposes, said tool will be labelled as black or gray.

                  When someone mentions using the tool, most people will apply the label they know, and if the label is at all accurate, they'll be right more often than not.

                  As I said, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it just might be a goose. But 'duck' is the smart money bet...
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                  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
                    Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


                    As I said, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it just might be a goose. But 'duck' is the smart money bet...
                    what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
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                    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

                      what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
                      Sorry...

                      Political comments are not allowed here. :p
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                    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
                      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

                      what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
                      Uhhhh.... Google?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

                      what if it walks like a duck, smells like a penguin, buries its head in the sand like an ostrich, and eats baloney sandwiches?
                      My Ex Wife
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    Spamming tools…

    Banned for life.
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Joseph,
      Another spamming tool.
      Were you referring to the software or the seller?


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author aarthielumalai
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Joseph,Were you referring to the software or the seller?


        Paul
        Both the software and the seller. People like that are annoying. I don't even have the liberty of unsubscribing from their spam!

        So yeah, they are spammers and that person should be banned, whoever he is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?
    Website Scraper (Unethical Website Scraper) utilized by Spamers

    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?
    Member response?: Those who know better. However, a lot would probably not know any better

    Personally I would like to see them warned about a ban and if they argue in the slightest jus ban them.
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  • People do it all the time, I don't. I like to get permission in the optin first. if you do that my question is what relationship do you have with the people who's email you scraped? My next question is if your email was scraped and you get an email sent to you what would your reaction be?

    Answer those 2 questions and you should know what to do.

    Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author J50
    Well since it's illegal, I'd notify the forum to cease all trading of such software or related services.

    Give every member of the forum a notice period of 30 days to stop trading in such software or services, after that bans start getting issued.

    I think that makes it fair, unless someone can do one better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    Some people might complain and say that the WF is not open enough to such tools... thank god they are not. The few spam tools (both humans and robots) that slipped through the cracks that I had to deal with, has been bad enough. Like this nice lady I met here a while back... she hasn't stopped spamming, it's been going on for months - even after a couple of emails back and forth. I guess once you are in the system you are in the system - and this seems to be the way their minds operate, lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    I've yet to see a email scraper that is being used for good intentions.
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    • Originally Posted by Christian Cee View Post

      I've yet to see a email scraper that is being used for good intentions.
      I would have to agree. If a marketer is building his/her list in the correct manner, they do not need a "scraper".
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  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi Paul,

    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?
    It's not the messiah, it's a very naughty software.

    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?
    Bloody vikings...

    Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

    Another spamming tool.
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Joseph,Were you referring to the software or the seller?
    Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

    The end users, there's a lot of software of this type that are created with good intent but end up being used for spamming.
    I got it.

    I'm not sure Joseph did...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      It is not illegal in the US. Sending mail to addresses scraped from certain sources can trigger fines under CAN-SPAM, given certain other conditions, but spamming is not illegal here as a general rule.

      I don't like that, but it's a fact. It's also a fact that spamming from the overwhelming majority of services in this country is a violation of your agreement with them. But people who are willing to spam don't really care much about anyone else's rights, including the rights of people with whom they've signed contracts.

      It has been against the rules and policies of this forum to endorse, facilitate, or sell software or lists for email spamming since I first started moderating here, which is well over a decade ago. I should think that would be enough advance notice.
      Some people might complain and say that the WF is not open enough to such tools...
      They can go to the bulker forums and complain all they want. It will not be allowed here.

      And I agree... I have never seen an address scraper that was designed for any purpose other than sending unsolicited bulk email.


      Paul
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      • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        It is not illegal in the US. Sending mail to addresses scraped from certain sources can trigger fines under CAN-SPAM, given certain other conditions, but spamming is not illegal here as a general rule.

        I don't like that, but it's a fact. It's also a fact that spamming from the overwhelming majority of services in this country is a violation of your agreement with them. But people who are willing to spam don't really care much about anyone else's rights, including the rights of people with whom they've signed contracts.

        It has been against the rules and policies of this forum to endorse, facilitate, or sell software or lists for email spamming since I first started moderating here, which is well over a decade ago. I should think that would be enough advance notice.They can go to the bulker forums and complain all they want. It will not be allowed here.

        And I agree... I have never seen an address scraper that was designed for any purpose other than sending unsolicited bulk email.


        Paul

        I don't think it matters that it's illegal it's just wrong and not good to do. I don't do scraping it's wrong IMHO. But we all have to break the law like last saturday I broke the law to get healthy illegal milk for example.
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Walter,
          In all fairness I would have to say that the product and many others on WF shouldn't lead to anyone being banned or penalized.
          You forgot, "In my opinion."

          Allowing the sale of email spamming tools has consequences you probably don't know about. Consequences that would affect tens of thousands of members here. That is aside from the ethical questions involved in spamming.

          Mike,

          There are practical and legal issues that affect those decisions. Among the practical ones, the biggest is time, followed immediately by moderator experience with the topics/disciplines in question.

          Short of truly draconian moderation practices, the members set the tone for the discussion sections of the forum. That has always been the case, and it's more true now than ever. It's also a generally good thing.

          The advent of affiliate programs that work through the forum has essentially separated the advertising sections from the discussion areas. The majority of visitors to the ads are not members. They are unaware of, and properly unconcerned with, the norms of the active membership.

          Things change. This place used to be a community with an attached marketplace. Then it was a marketplace with an attached community. Now it's both, almost entirely separate.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author James Clark
            This is email harvesting software if you ask me. And someone is going to misuse it when they get their hands on it for sure. I would be willing to bet the farm on that!
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Joseph,Were you referring to the software or the seller?


              Paul
              I'd say both.

              Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

              What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

              Steve
              Steve, don't look at it as a matter of choice, rather as a simple question of order...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Roger,
      I got it.

      I'm not sure Joseph did...
      We're evil. I'm not sure Joseph is.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Joseph,
          Well I can tell you this, I have never used any scraper in my 9+ years online.
          I believe you. I wasn't talking about that kind of "evil."

          It was a joke. Suggesting you were calling the seller a tool. Not a flattering word to use on someone.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
            [DELETED]
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            • Obviously the spamware is right out.

              I'm a little uneasy about the "curation" tool sold by the same WF member. Curation is the new code for content theft. I don't have a problem with people curating my content as long as they link back to my site and write their own substantive material framing a snippet of my article, but that's not what a lot of people are doing in the name of curation. Their way is just autoblogging 2.0.

              fLufF
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Fluff,

                There's a whole lot of stuff sold here that I am "uneasy" about, along with things I would outright ban if I made the rules. But I don't. I just help enforce them.

                I absolutely agree with you on a lot of what is now called "curation."


                Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Suze Thomas
    I would call it "SPAMWARE". You have to assume any software that does what your sying is designed to send spam, at some point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Suze,
      I would call it "SPAMWARE".
      The precise word I used in addressing the issue with the relevant party. Thank you. I was waiting for that.


      Paul
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  • Well I guess you're talking about Web-scraping software. Or some spider or bot or something :-D.

    Anyway, it's not really illegal in its entirety but it may cause some serious legal and financial consequences for you if you don't use such software carefully and correctly. Also, a lot of people really and I mean STRONGLY disagree to their personal information being acquired by some software and used somewhere without their permission or knowledge of some sort so be very careful. I would say never to use one but everybody has their own reasons. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      everybody has their own reasons.
      Yes, they can rationalize spamming as a whole lot of things that make it sound reasonable. Right up until you look at the inevitable consequences.


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  • Profile picture of the author MatthewWoodward
    I'm sure in the UK it is legal to target business owners in this way, but its all down to how you use it.

    If you were going to use such a tool to find guest posting oppertunitys and not send millions of pointless untargeted emails then I doubt you would have a problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Matthew,

      This is the thread in question.

      Tell me if you think that software is designed to be used for legitimate purposes.


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      • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Matthew,

        This is the thread in question.

        Tell me if you think that software is designed to be used for legitimate purposes.


        Paul
        It's amazing how some of these guys make spamware look legitimate. This is the reason why a lot of newbies get in trouble. It's not necessarily the fact that they did something wrong. It's just that they aren't aware that the tools their using are bad and do bad things.
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      • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Matthew,

        This is the thread in question.

        Tell me if you think that software is designed to be used for legitimate purposes.


        Paul
        I've thought about the whole thing and I'm going to say this.

        In all fairness I would have to say that the product and many others on WF shouldn't lead to anyone being banned or penalized. Considering that it's an environment where other software that are similar don't appear to have been a problem in the past. I'm looking at this thread and wonder if it was ever questioned.

        I'm an avid wso browser and have noticed many different types of softwares, guru courses and the whole. A lot of stuff looks like it's straight plr. I've seen Guru's come out with WSO's and a few weeks behind theirs a rash of WSO's that appear to be covering the same area exactly. My point is how can you come down hard on One and not come down hard on the Other? If Bob, John, and Jamie launch a software program and it flies as a WSO at the beginning of the year. How can you come down on Henry's software program that does something similar?

        What I'm saying is while working on the program he probably used the others as a guideline as to what's acceptable. I recently purchased a program that creates video's from text files and adds music. The program I think came out end of 2011, about a month ago some other guy released a program that did the same thing. Both of the programs looked similar except it appears the second got perfected his at least as far as copy writing, and functionality.

        Anyway, I say all that to say, that this is judgement call I wouldn't make. Those programs are like knives and guns. You can use a gun to hunt for food or to kill someone. You can use a knife to cut bread or stab someone, but at the end of the day. It all depends upon the individual.

        From my view they both have to stay and no one should be penalized. If there is a question or a problem. Then new rules need to be made that people can abide by.

        Just My 100 cents.
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        • Profile picture of the author Snowflame
          I know this is an old thread but I came to it while searching for info' on Atomic Email Hunter.
          I am a newbie to IM so please make allowances in the following statement.

          I tend to agree with those who have said that it depends on how you use this type of program. If you can target emails where you are pretty sure they will have an interest in a particular subject/hobby etc.. then is there any harm in sending them an email with some information or offer relevant in that field?

          Is it not like getting junk mail through the post? With physical junk mail I take it from the letter box and into the waste bin. I can delete spammy emails in a blink of an eye. The only personal information the spammer has used is my email address. I get junk physical mail sent to my home address all the time which I find much more disturbing.

          Again, being a newbie I am probably missing some pertinent points but at the moment I can't see what the big deal is about receiving uninvited emails?
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Snowflame,

            Originally Posted by Snowflame View Post

            I tend to agree with those who have said that it depends on how you use this type of program. If you can target emails where you are pretty sure they will have an interest in a particular subject/hobby etc.. then is there any harm in sending them an email with some information or offer relevant in that field?

            Is it not like getting junk mail through the post? With physical junk mail I take it from the letter box and into the waste bin. I can delete spammy emails in a blink of an eye. The only personal information the spammer has used is my email address. I get junk physical mail sent to my home address all the time which I find much more disturbing.

            Again, being a newbie I am probably missing some pertinent points but at the moment I can't see what the big deal is about receiving uninvited emails?
            Scale.

            If it's OK for you to do it, or me, then it's OK for everyone to do it too. What if 4 million of us email you?

            Can you delete 4 million emails in the blink of an eye? Is that still not a problem?

            What about if we don't send you one email each? What if we send you 100 a day?

            Does that explain?
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            • Profile picture of the author livo
              To be honest guys it used to bother the hell out of me getting spam emails it really did but I became so used to it I kinda now know what I really want to read.In fact some of the most successful and well known Internet Marketers are guilty of using such software (you know who you are guys!)But I do agree if the messages are done in the right way and are in the interest of the receiver then I see no problem.
              There has been a few cases that have in fact been beneficial to me by me one was being introduced to CPA which I had never heard of before.
              The ones that really p**s me off are the ones where I unsubscribe and then get another email a day or so later.
              But where do we draw the line in using software to benefit our business, you can argue forever on the rights and wrongs of such things and never find the answer.There are hundreds of similar software available right here on this forum.
              And I wonder how many warriors and well known Imers use scraper software.

              I have never used any scraping software as I like to build my list in what I consider the best way that works me and I would not like to get in any kind of trouble by doing anything unethical its just not worth the hassle.
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Originally Posted by MatthewWoodward View Post

      I'm sure in the UK it is legal to target business owners in this way, but its all down to how you use it.

      If you were going to use such a tool to find guest posting oppertunitys and not send millions of pointless untargeted emails then I doubt you would have a problem.
      I suggest you read this Matthew: Stop Spam Emails and Unsolicited Email Marketing - ICO

      More importantly... "The Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations 2003 cover the sending of email marketing. This legislation says that organisations must only send marketing emails to individuals if you have agreed to receive them, except where there is a clearly defined customer relationship."
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    1- Call it whatever you wanna call it.
    2- Banned permanently.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Frost
    Search and spam

    Like its a spammers heaven

    auto ban
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Looking at the listed "benefits" of

      gathering contacts from....
      extracting contacts from....
      collecting contacts from....

      My answer would be "it's crap" and "nuke'em"
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Jason,

    I know enough about (the other) Jason's approach to things to take some very good guesses as to how he'd use that list, and sending you spam isn't anywhere among them.

    Jason is a networker, and one of the best. The good ones NEVER spam.


    Paul
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  • What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?
    ALRIIIIIIIIIIIGHT, Paul Myers is gonna tell a joke. I cain't wait for the punchline! There ain't nothin I love more in this world than fat email jokes. Whoooo weee, they get me to laughin so hard that the trap door on my long johns falls open!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Tad,
      I cain't wait for the punchline!
      "Do you think I'm nuts? I'd get halfway across and you'd turn off the flashlight!"


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Tad,"Do you think I'm nuts? I'd get halfway across and you'd turn off the flashlight!"


        Paul
        Flashlight? Flashlight?!?!?! You must think we is high falutin here in the holler. We don't use no flashlight! I WOULD be blowin out he candle though!

        I shore am sorry I stole yore thread and I will be lettin you get back to it now!
        Signature
        Thaddaeus T. Hogg, The Hillbilly Marketeer
        http://www.hillbillymarketer.com
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Paul,

    Pardon the newbie question but does that apply to software that scrapes the Yellow pages and Google Places as a lead generation tool for offline businesses?

    I have bought two and use them to evaluate the person's website and then call them up.

    Is it the same type of software?

    Di
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Diana,
      Pardon the newbie question but does that apply to software that scrapes the Yellow pages and Google Places as a lead generation tool for offline businesses?
      If they just get the links, and you have to manually look at the sites, no. This wouldn't apply. As annoying as telemarketing is to some people, it's not at all the same thing as email spamming. The economies of scale are very different.

      If they scrape email addresses, yes. They need to go.

      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    What do you call software that scrapes email addresses? Spamware, Scrape 'n Rape, or my own personal favorite TheDevilMadeMeDoItBot

    What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

    Steve
    Signature

    Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
    SteveBrowneDirect

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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

      Steve
      Actually, decapitation should be reserved for hackers (those that write viruses, malware, etc.), and castration won't work, cuz we all know spammers got nothin down there in the first place!
      Signature

      I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    Paul and All! <Catchy, isn't it?>

    Please forgive me if this is obvious to you all, but isn't selling your list, or sharing your list the same?
    More directly, let's say I mistakenly bought a WSO one day, (in my defense, it sure was purty), and I naturally had to submit my email to them. Fast forward ... now, I have 6-7 more "members" sending me promotional emails for each other's WSO's. I never signed up with these people. I don't remember any fine print stating that my email was going to become public!
    So, I'm a tad confused. I understand that bots (read: software), can do it enmasse, but unsolicited, is just that.
    Anyone wanna clear this up for me please!!! ?????
    Thanks!
    Signature


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    • Profile picture of the author MyiMall
      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

      isn't selling your list, or sharing your list the same?
      I agree - I purchase online products all the time from people I THINK are going to be respectful of my email address, so I give them my "real" email address (as opposed to a throwaway address that I rarely check). Once every year or so, my "good" email address becomes a "junk" email address because it's been sold or shared so many times that I'm on hundreds of lists. One such account receives about 300 emails a day. Unfortunately, it also receives email that I want to get, so I end up going through and mass deleting all the junk every couple of days.

      Very annoying!!

      Marketers - PLEASE do NOT sell or share your lists! Treat them as what they are - pure gold to your business! Selling or sharing your customer list (or prospect list, for that matter) is just stupid.
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      Help Small Business Owners while making a recurring income for yourself - truly "win/win"! https://ILikeSmallBiz.com/affiliate-program
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      • Profile picture of the author fedor50
        Originally Posted by MyiMall View Post

        I agree - I purchase online products all the time from people I THINK are going to be respectful of my email address, so I give them my "real" email address (as opposed to a throwaway address that I rarely check). Once every year or so, my "good" email address becomes a "junk" email address because it's been sold or shared so many times that I'm on hundreds of lists. One such account receives about 300 emails a day. Unfortunately, it also receives email that I want to get, so I end up going through and mass deleting all the junk every couple of days.

        Very annoying!!

        Marketers - PLEASE do NOT sell or share your lists! Treat them as what they are - pure gold to your business! Selling or sharing your customer list (or prospect list, for that matter) is just stupid.
        i actually agree that selling and sharing your lists is very similar and should NOT be allowed.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    It's pretty well known that this forum doesn't support, allow or condone the use of email harvesters to send out bulk unsolicited commercial email.

    It's not even up for discussion from what I've seen, not that I want to discuss it.

    Typical spam machine if you ask me.
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  • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

    And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?


    Paul
    I call that software a "Class D Felony" that jeopardizes the reputation and legal standing of our home the Warrior Forum

    Response? A fancy little "Banned" title under their username
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  • Profile picture of the author lollobrigida
    Sometimes it's a thin line between white and black... and sometimes there it a lot of blurry grey. In the case of the software in question... it certainly crosses my lines.

    On a more general level... I'd say it's not the hammer (the tool) that's bad, but the person using the hammer. So there are tools out there that can very well be used for "all shades of grey" and it depends on the user.
    Curation is a good example for that. It can be used for plain theft ...but it can also be used in a legit way to "quote" portions of interesting content (of course with proper links to the source) ...and provide value for everyone.
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    • Originally Posted by lollobrigida View Post

      Sometimes it's a thin line between white and black... and sometimes there it a lot of blurry grey. In the case of the software in question... it certainly crosses my lines.

      On a more general level... I'd say it's not the hammer (the tool) that's bad, but the person using the hammer. So there are tools out there that can very well be used for "all shades of grey" and it depends on the user.
      Curation is a good example for that. It can be used for plain theft ...but it can also be used in a legit way to "quote" portions of interesting content (of course with proper links to the source) ...and provide value for everyone.
      You are welcome in the NRA anytime my friend!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Please forgive me if this is obvious to you all, but isn't selling your list, or sharing your list the same?
      As far as the rules here, yes.

      Selling or sharing lists of WSO buyers is grounds for banning. See the rules in the WSO section.
      On a more general level... I'd say it's not the hammer (the tool) that's bad, but the person using the hammer. So there are tools out there that can very well be used for "all shades of grey" and it depends on the user.
      True. I have a program that extracts email addresses from text files on my computer. I use it often.

      One of the lists that make up the subscribers to my newsletter is older, and I send those emails from my desktop machine. After each issue, I collect the bounces into a folder in my emailer, sort out the ones that are permanent, and dump the contents of that folder to a text file. I then use the software to extract the bad addresses, which I remove from the subscriber list using another piece of software designed to work with address lists.

      We would not allow that tool to be sold here. Its primary purpose is to extract addresses to send unsolicited email.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Scraping emails is like picking up used cigarette butts.

      Pulling apart what is left of the pre-sucked on saliva, bacteria and dirt infested tobacco and rolling yourself a new ciggie.
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  • Profile picture of the author lollobrigida
    @dragon
    hmm...maybe I should have added "as long as the tool is legal".
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  • Profile picture of the author Reinie
    Ban for sure
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

      What is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product? Decapitation or Castration, whichever causes the most pain.

      I prefer Defenestration.

      fLufF
      --
      For me, that depends on how high the window is and what the landing surface is like. Three feet into a lush lawn ain't quite harsh enough, IMO.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author aarthielumalai
    It's spam. Doing stuff like that is against the law, isn't it? Shouldn't you have the permission of your receiver before you promote to them?
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  • Profile picture of the author PsycFa
    Email scrapers are spambots; the majority of people out there will tell you the same. I installed anti-spam on my emails just because of that. And I absolutely hate it; especially those "VIAGRA PILLS"...

    That is why never do the mistake i did before in a previous forum; post your email add in the open
    Signature

    The aim of marketing is to make selling superfluous. The aim of marketing is to know and understand the customer so well that the product or service fits him and sells itself.....

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  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings,
    An Email harvester.

    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    and then sends bulk email to those addresses?
    Spam-O-Matic 2000!


    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?
    Paul
    Give them a free banner advertisement on the forum as a reward for producing such an awesome program that makes the world a much better place?
    Signature

    :)

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  • Profile picture of the author dadhere
    yes, it has a low respect level and banning would be inevitable
    Signature



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    • Profile picture of the author lollobrigida
      Originally Posted by dadhere View Post

      yes, it has a low respect level and banning would be inevitable
      ...you mean hunting with Dick Cheney? I certainly agree!

      (argh...just couldn't resist)
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    After looking at the thread Paul was referring to, in my not so humble opinion, castration, decapitation and possible defoliation of his yard should work. At least hopefully some others would decide, its not in their best interest to try to sale this type of software on the WF.

    Good decision Paul on closing the thread.

    Ken Leatherman

    The Old Geezer

    P.S. Permanent Banning could work too.
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Silvey
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

    And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?


    Paul
    Illegal under Can Spam - 25 buck fine per scraped email on top of Can Spam Infractions.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Okay folks. Settle an argument. What do you call software that scrapes email addresses from newsgroups, webpages, and whois listings, and then sends bulk email to those addresses?

    And what is the usual response to promoting the sale of such a product in this forum?


    Paul
    I would say they are called "spam bots" but I would also say the same thing about pinterest bots that are already being sold on WF. The end goal with each is the same, spam people.

    But somehow the pinterest people have convinced WF that these bots can be used for other noble causes... which I'm yet to figure out.

    You could technically say the same thing about email scrapers no? Maybe I'm just collecting addresses to save them? It doesn't seem likely sure, but it still seems as likely as people using pinterest bots for non-spam reasons.

    I'm sure I'm twisting things around but my mind seems to be stuck on this concept atm.

    -Red

    ps. I'm not trying to stir an arguement I'm just saying when you type in "pinterest bots" into google you get MANY blackhat references for spamming. The reason why they're treated differently I suppose you can just builder a stronger arguement against spamming, as irrelevant as that arguement would be in the real world.
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