Newbies, stop the madness

17 replies
I come to this topic from an unique perspective. I spend the first half of my career building a financial business, from nothing to $6 million per year, that helped people deal with their financial challenges. I've spend the past year and a half trying to re-invent myself in this internet world.

I have seen tremendous change over the past six months or so. "Gurus" are becoming more aggressive and blatantly over the top in their marketing strategies particularly to newbies and people are eating it up. My in-box is flooded with emails having the same subject line from jv partners of the same product launch.

Who is to blame?

You may not like the answer, but I would say its mostly the gullible newbies. Yes, the "gurus" have often been misleading in their marketing, but if the market wasn't their, they wouldn't continue with such force. Consumers can stop it by putting away their credit cards and taking a deep breath before making a purchase. The 24 hour rule works fine. Haste equals waste.

But more important, use common sense. I've been following a huge number of posts that have bashed a particular CPA product that cost $2,000. Allegedly, 3600 people bought into this product. I can't comment on the product because I opted not to buy it, but a little logic would have gone a long way.

There headline claimed that the product "shows you how to make $50,000 to $100,000 per day...".

Ladies and gents, how could anyone believe that for a second? Do the math, that is $18-$36 million per year. If I had a system that made that kind of money I would certainly not share it with anyone. And if I felt the market could sustain more, I would just hire people to make more. It doesn't make sense.

Sure, if I had to venture a guess, they were deceptive. My guess is they did that once or at best, on an occasion. But even if it were true for them, they certainly couldn't have believed that they could teach many others to do the same. The FTC test for deceptive marketing is that the message has to be true for the majority.

There are a ton of examples in the IM world just like this one. And the claims are getting wilder ever day.

I noticed that up until about 6 months ago, the basic rule was to give free, great content leading up to a launch. I learned a great deal from people that I never bought anything from. But if I did buy, I would have at least felt that they earned my business (dinner before the nightcap). Now, it doesn't seem like many "gurus" are wasting their time delivering good content unless it comes with a catch. It all started with the trend of giving something away for free (kinda) but having it come with a trial subscription to a membership. The burden was on the consumer to opt out.

Of course, the offerers made a bet that the majority of people being what they are, would fail to opt out. They must have been right because since then, that tactic has become the trend.

What can we do about this? How about just saying no. Stop chasing the new latest and greatest thing. I hate to say it but without newbie wanna bees this market would not exist.

Building a business is not that easy. There are no magic formulas or systems. It requires good choices, good fortune, and usually hard work. Don't believe otherwise because the easy buck is the exception not the rule. I built my business to $6 million a year but that was after not earning a cent of income for a year and waffling on the bring for three years.

The internet has made the process somewhat less treacherous, but it should never be thought of as easy.

Want an education? Go to Amazon and buy business books. Read Entrepreneur and Inc. magazine. Learn business. Sound concepts are true whether the business lives online, offline, or both. It will lead to better decisions and that is the key to business. It is all about finding a marketplace and giving them what they want. Don't blame the "gurus" for doing just that. They have found a marketplace of people looking to have sunshine blown up their butts and they have successfully delivered that. Now if you want to really build a business, become business people.
#madness #newbies #stop
  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    Bobsedge,

    A good post but, as I have discovered, one which the internet marketing community will tell you is far too sane and logical to carry any weight. (More likely they will say you don't have a clue what you are talking about!)

    Internet Marketing is a shadowy world of false hopes wrapped in naïve dreams surrounded by acolytes of faceless gods who preach anything that happens to sound good at the time.

    As you say, there was a time when a new launch was foreshadowed by teasing articles and freebies of one kind or another which actually built up a sense of anticipation but all that is finished now.

    Under promise - over deliver. How many times have you seen that trotted out. Now look at two of the most successful fast food chains, MacDonalds and Burger King. What do they do - they over promise and under deliver - constantly. Did you ever have a Big Mac or a Double Whopper that that looked anything like the picture on the menu?

    Everything now is like the hem lines on ladies skirts - dictated by the latest fashions. FFA pages. Give it away. Portal sites, Adsense sites. Multiple blogs. Virtual real estate, Forums. Membership sites. Continuity programmes. The list of 'latest' trends is endless but now, the latest trend is almost instantly turned into a 'turn key' opportunity with automatic site builders, automatic blog posters, automatic and sequencial email marketing - the list is endless. The people who used to be able to survive because of their superior knowledge are now reduced to creating false hopes, misleading impressions and products cloned from other products and given provocative names.

    They have found a marketplace of people looking to have sunshine blown up their butts and they have successfully delivered that.

    I wish I had thought of that!

    Now I suppose we will be accused of being negative and told that if we don't like the smell - go somewhere else.
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    Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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  • Profile picture of the author jcisme
    Thank you for this post. I can't even count all the various programs I've bought and yes tried only to be dissapointed with the results. So today I joined the Warrior War Room with the promise to myself that it is the last purchase I am going to make.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    I think it is because a lot of newbies look at is not as building a business, but as a way to get a bigger paycheck.

    yes I am a newbie myself.

    But look at the mindset. Most are looking for a bigger paycheck, looking at how they themselves are going to benefit, what they are going to get out of it. They don't talk about how their customers are going to benefit.

    Look at the offline threads. Hardly do they talk about how are they going to save the brick and mortar businesses money, or help them develop relationships with their customers, or help them solve their problems, and challenges.

    Most of them don't want to go and talk with business owners, they just want to "sell" over the phone. Well that is just another job. A sales job. Now they are their own boss.

    But like I said, they are not interested in building a business, they are interested in a bigger paycheck for themselves.

    I myself am dealing with this dilemma. I am in the nutrition niche. Now, do I give people what they need, or do I give them what they want?

    It's not different than the IM niche. These Guru's are giving the newbies what they want, rather than what they need.

    That does not in no way excuse it. But, yeah us newbies need to stop and take a breath before we make a purchase.

    Shane_K
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    • Profile picture of the author JLRuffin
      It is true that Newbies are eager to purchase anything that promises a lot of money within a short period of time. On the other hand, to build a business requires work and a clear strategy. One good aspect about the Internet is that if done correctly it does not take as long as most off-line businesses to make some decent money. The biggest hindrance is that most people keep jumping around from one offer to the next which promises the next best thing. One should find a niche they are comfortable in and learn the ins-and-outs of that particular genre. Anyone who does this, will eventually see results.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post


        Want an education? Go to Amazon and buy business books. Read Entrepreneur and Inc. magazine. Learn business. Sound concepts are true whether the business lives online, offline, or both. It will lead to better decisions and that is the key to business. It is all about finding a marketplace and giving them what they want. Don't blame the "gurus" for doing just that. They have found a marketplace of people looking to have sunshine blown up their butts and they have successfully delivered that. Now if you want to really build a business, become business people.
        Some of the best real world advice I've read on this forum for a while now. Well done!

        Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

        Bobsedge,


        Internet Marketing is a shadowy world of false hopes wrapped in naïve dreams surrounded by acolytes of faceless gods who preach anything that happens to sound good at the time.
        I know what brings you to say that, but in reality that's simply way too much of a generalization...even the "IM2IM" world (Internet Marketing to Internet Marketers) is a mixed world of varying quality!

        Originally Posted by artwebster View Post



        Under promise - over deliver. How many times have you seen that trotted out. Now look at two of the most successful fast food chains, MacDonalds and Burger King. What do they do - they over promise and under deliver - constantly. Did you ever have a Big Mac or a Double Whopper that that looked anything like the picture on the menu?
        I agree, just like a shiny eBook cover attempts to increase the "perceived value" of the eBook.

        After a while, you realize that eBooks/services and software worth their salt don't need an eCover to sell off the chart...

        ...it's all in the power of the written word.

        Fast food don't do direct response per se, but they sure make some tasty looking eBook covers for their Bic Macs...
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      I think it is because a lot of newbies look at is not as building a business, but as a way to get a bigger paycheck.

      yes I am a newbie myself.

      But look at the mindset. Most are looking for a bigger paycheck, looking at how they themselves are going to benefit, what they are going to get out of it. They don't talk about how their customers are going to benefit.

      Look at the offline threads. Hardly do they talk about how are they going to save the brick and mortar businesses money, or help them develop relationships with their customers, or help them solve their problems, and challenges.

      Most of them don't want to go and talk with business owners, they just want to "sell" over the phone. Well that is just another job. A sales job. Now they are their own boss.

      But like I said, they are not interested in building a business, they are interested in a bigger paycheck for themselves.

      I myself am dealing with this dilemma. I am in the nutrition niche. Now, do I give people what they need, or do I give them what they want?

      It's not different than the IM niche. These Guru's are giving the newbies what they want, rather than what they need.

      That does not in no way excuse it. But, yeah us newbies need to stop and take a breath before we make a purchase.

      Shane_K
      All these things go hand in hand. Give people what they want but make it quality. If they want weight loss, give them weight loss. And obviously, we all want the same thing, to make as much money as possible, but it can be done without compromising ourselves.

      The "gurus" are feeding people what they are asking for, a way to make quick easy money. Unfortunately, its not true. And we need to ask better questions. The internet offers a broad opportunity. Don't settle. Do what you like to do, find a market in which to do it, and build a business that will sustain itself. It may not be sexy or what people want to hear, but in the long run its the only way to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author grumpyb
    I am here to Learn but it takes a lot to carefully pick your way through the massive number of posts simply designed to either (A) get another signiture backlink or (B) promote some get rich quick scheme.
    The number of informative posts with helpfull information is getting smaller and often a serious question is pushed back to the archives so quickly in favour of make a million dollar or 1 line posts. Thankfully ther are a number of experineced people here willing to share information and for that I am very grateful
    Given the current world economic situation there must be more and more people looking for a miracle.
    This is IMHO the biggest business on the Internet today "SELLING MIRACLES"
    Unfortunately most modern day miracles dont have any solid facts behind them and are simply pushed forward by those who want to beleive.

    Its a simple saying but True "If it seems to good to be true then it usualy is"

    Like the OP says If I had a scheme that was bringing in $10,000 a day or more the last thing I would do is share it with anyone else. Even if its $1000 a day why would you want to share it ?
    The truth is that some people do make $1000 + a day trading on other peoples gulability or lack of knowledge.
    Lets face it Try reading the first 50 Posts after placing your self in a Newbie ( Intenet Newbie ) mind set.
    WOW I have joined Warrior and all my troubles are over here are all these Gurus who for a few dollars will make me rich.
    What a Miracle !!
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  • Profile picture of the author Anna Johnson
    Terrific post, Bobsedge.

    There headline claimed that the product "shows you how to make $50,000 to $100,000 per day...".

    Ladies and gents, how could anyone believe that for a second? Do the math, that is $18-$36 million per year. If I had a system that made that kind of money I would certainly not share it with anyone. And if I felt the market could sustain more, I would just hire people to make more. It doesn't make sense.
    Priceless. A little rational thinking goes along way.
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  • Profile picture of the author kdggdk
    "A little rational thinking goes along way"
    VERY WELL SAID
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Johns
    Too many people come into Internet Marketing with a dream without any idea of how they are going to achieve it or what vehicle they are going to use to achieve it.

    I bet if we took a survey of how many people here had a plan for their business over the next year the show of hands would be woefully small.

    People jump into Internet Marketing thinking it is a panacea that will solve all their financial woes and so go spending willy nilly on everything and anything in the hope that it will make them rich. Heck, I've been there, done that and got a hard drive littered with products I've never even looked at!

    The key with making purchases is not to be sucked into all the hype and the seduction in the sales letter. The sales letter is meant to suck you in and make you feel you can't live without the product. I've read sales letters and got very excited about the product myself.

    The difference is I then make a business decision. I see how the product will fit into my plan. Is it a distraction or does it add value? Will I be using it in the next 3 months and see a return on my investment? Is it actually something I need, i.e. does it do something that will increase my profit / efficiency.

    If it doesn't meet this (and more) criteria, the answer is no, regardless of how persuasive the sales letter is.

    I agree that whenever you see something showing you how to make lots of money easily you have to query it - why would someone give away something that allows them to make thousands of dollars a day for just a few dollars? Not being funny, but I wouldn't. I'd sit and do more of it and enjoy every last cent!

    I've come from a fairly senior role in a major offline corporation and I know companies don't give away their money making secrets, unless there is something really BIG in it for them. No one does. I've read lots of these products offering you the world for very little and to be honest most of them don't tell you anything new and once you have been sucked in you are emailed to death with offer after offer!

    I've really enjoyed reading your post Bobsedge and think you have hit a nail on the head. Too many people are too focused on making money and not focused enough on giving value. I personally pride myself on massively over delivering on everything I do and I do well because of it.

    All the best

    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    I'm a little tired of the apparent attitude that "newbies" are brain-dead robots who cannot decide for themselves whether they should buy a specific product or join someone's list or whatever.

    I'll go out on a limb and assume the original poster has not seen the CPA course he's bashing, and thus is not really qualified to decide for others whether they should buy it. (I haven't seen it, either, so I'll let other people make their own choices.)

    I'm not sure how reading general business magazines like Inc. is going to help someone learn Internet marketing more than an actual IM course would.

    How about treating people like adults and letting them decide how to spend their money and run their businesses?
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    First Chris, I didn't bash the CPA course and admitted that I hadn't purchased it. I was simply commenting on the large number of posts that bashed the product. That being said, until proven otherwise, the sales copy they used appears very misleading.

    Newbies are not brain dead robots but often it appears that many are gullible and willing to accept things at face value. They can obviously buy whatever they want. What do I care? But they should know that a little discretion goes a long way and what they see is not always they truth. Perhaps you have a vested interest in seeing people whip out their credit card haphazardly. I don't. I have seen in too often already.

    As for business magazines verses IM courses. I have yet to see anything new about marketing in IM courses. Everything I learned in my life about marketing came out of traditional books and magazines. Everything on the internet is a re-tread strategy that has been around for ever. The tools and techniques are different, but not the strategy. It has all been done before.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Shane,
      do I give people what they need, or do I give them what they want?
      Sell them what they want, give them what you sold them, and sneak in what they need.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author shane_k
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Shane,Sell them what they want, give them what you sold them, and sneak in what they need.


        Paul



        I have been testing products on both sides of the fence and noticed that some of the products that are not that great for them sell better than products that could really help them.

        I was even considering a different niche, but I bet it is like that in every niche.

        So I really like what you wrote.


        Thanks

        Shane_K
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        • Profile picture of the author NMP
          GREED! Makes the market. Not newbies...

          Look at the national lottery (Lotto) or whatever
          it's named where you live. You know the product
          doesn't work, but anyway billions are spent.

          And since most people know they won't win. But
          what do they do? Buy a ticket cause maybe baby.

          Daniel
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          • Profile picture of the author seemar49
            Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

            I come to this topic from an unique perspective. I spend the first half of my career building a financial business, from nothing to $6 million per year, that helped people deal with their financial challenges. I've spend the past year and a half trying to re-invent myself in this internet world.

            I have seen tremendous change over the past six months or so. "Gurus" are becoming more aggressive and blatantly over the top in their marketing strategies particularly to newbies and people are eating it up. My in-box is flooded with emails having the same subject line from jv partners of the same product launch.

            Who is to blame?

            You may not like the answer, but I would say its mostly the gullible newbies. Yes, the "gurus" have often been misleading in their marketing, but if the market wasn't their, they wouldn't continue with such force. Consumers can stop it by putting away their credit cards and taking a deep breath before making a purchase. The 24 hour rule works fine. Haste equals waste.

            Bob, I disagree with the above statement as it's not just newbies that fall for the Gurus over inflated marketing offers. Even people who have been trying to earn a living online have brought products from the gurus in an attempt to keep up with the trend.

            The problem lies with the top gurus setting the benchmarks many years ago and the masses are following their leads.

            I've been to seminars where the most respected guru's have said it's ok to fabricate a story in your sales letter to get a sale. The masses of people in the audience then think this is a stratagey they should adopt and before you know it, every would be internet marketer follows suit.

            In general, most people wanting to get into internet marketing are following the wrong people and also try and replicate their guru mentors by pretending to be gurus themselves.

            Many years ago, we all used to be sick of the amount of junk mail that came through our letterboxes and we all got to the stage where we never even used to open anything that resembled junk mail. The same thing has now happening on the internet but on a larger scale.

            Couple this with all the newbies who pretend to be gurus, and now, most informed internet surfers know how to spot this worthless junk.

            This is the downside to a global connection available to everybody. New computer users don't understand about clicking on an affiliate link or entering their name in a form will put them on an autoresponder full of junk.

            It took people decades to wise up to junk mail through your letterboxes. It will take the public a hell of a lot longer to realise what is happening on the internet.

            So in my opinion, it is not the fault of the newbies, it is the fault of the so-called guru marketing mentors that set the benchmark that the rest are following.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Good points. I must say though, I don't really mind the emails within reason. deleting is easy and I sometimes get good information from them.

    I have to say that I liked product launches better when everyone was following Jeff Walker's lead and doing a long product launch. I knew it was hype, but the free content was actually excellent. Now it seems that people are getting lazy.

    You're right in that its not just newbies. We are all vulnerable to chasing the next best thing. I don't think its too much to ask for truth in marketing by the people launching products. There is sales copy and then there is over-the-top wild claims. That needs to stop because someone will be made an example of. In return, we as consumers need to show a little restraint.
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