You must be a superstar professional writer BUT I can only pay you $2 per article - say WHAT?

127 replies
Hi Warriors,

Searching through the sea of poorly paid writing jobs at oDesk in the hopes of fining a decent one just gets to me sometimes.

People say they want creative, engaging, superstar writers that can produce content fast. But then say that they are only willing to part with a measly $2 in exchange for all that.

Some of the ads even say that you have to be from the US. This is ridiculous, who would work for those rates in the US, do they even understand it's humans writing these articles. Not some Internet organism based entity that exists to meet their content needs.

I like the idea of oDesk and it's user interface is brilliant. Their withdrawal system also works very well for me. I just wish there was a similar marketplace out there where a reasonable minimum price barrier could not be breached. And if it is then could be effectively filtered out from my search results.
#article #pay #professional #superstar #writer
  • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
    Yea, people have been raging about this stuff a lot lately, myself included. Freelance sites, for the most part, are absolutely worthless in terms of gaining immediate revenue for writers. Use them to promote yourself and your own website portfolio where you charge "real" rates.

    EDIT: *yawn* woops
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by Robert M Gouge View Post

      LOL, yes it may interest me since I started it :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
        Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

        LOL, yes it may interest me since I started it :-)
        Lol, I didn't catch that. Too early in the morning for me. Sorry about that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    That what happens when the supply is larger than the demand. People need to under price their commodities to get sold.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Have you tried doing a Warriors for Hire listing and positioning yourself at a higher price level? It's the first place I go for content.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Have you tried doing a Warriors for Hire listing and positioning yourself at a higher price level? It's the first place I go for content.
      Yes I have, but from what I have been told it takes time to gain traction as you need to build a reputation.
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  • Profile picture of the author JMSD
    Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    Searching through the sea of poorly paid writing jobs at oDesk in the hopes of fining a decent one just gets to me sometimes.

    People say they want creative, engaging, superstar writers that can produce content fast. But then say that they are only willing to part with a measly $2 in exchange for all that.

    Some of the ads even say that you have to be from the US. This is ridiculous, who would work for those rates in the US, do they even understand it's humans writing these articles. Not some Internet organism based entity that exists to meet their content needs.

    I like the idea of oDesk and it's user interface is brilliant. Their withdrawal system also works very well for me. I just wish there was a similar marketplace out there where a reasonable minimum price barrier could not be breached. And if it is then could be effectively filtered out from my search results.
    On the whole, I'd agree with you - $2 per article is an absurd figure (unless it's spun).

    But if someone is skilled at writing, they could churn out several articles in an hour which would then yield a better result.

    Jamie
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    • Profile picture of the author TheWrightWords
      Originally Posted by JMSD View Post

      On the whole, I'd agree with you - $2 per article is an absurd figure (unless it's spun).

      But if someone is skilled at writing, they could churn out several articles in an hour which would then yield a better result.

      Jamie
      Well, if someone is skilled at writing, the don't have to churn out several articles in an hour They can simply get quality pay for quality work.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jaysmyne
        Originally Posted by TheWrightWords View Post

        Well, if someone is skilled at writing, the don't have to churn out several articles in an hour They can simply get quality pay for quality work.
        I really agree with this. At $2 an article pay your better off setting up a blogger blog and posting the articles yourself with advertisements or putting them on hubpages or squidoo or something of that sort.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
      Originally Posted by JMSD View Post

      ... if someone is skilled at writing, they could churn out several articles in an hour ...
      I'd be inclined to consider that someone who is skilled at churning out articles, rather than necessarily having any particular skill in writing. Skilled writers don't tend to churn too much, in my experience.

      John.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheWrightWords
    I've seen that scenario soooo many times, my response is always the same:

    1. Read ridiculous job posting.
    2. Remember their bad choices and/or lack of budget is not my problem.
    3. Remember that clients who value you pay more and behave MUCH better than the cheapies.
    4. Laugh at them and move on.

    All you can do -- you can't change these guys, and your chances of converting a 2 buck a page guy to even a 20 bucks a page guy are slim to none-- is just shake your head and move on!
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  • Profile picture of the author grover69
    I would take sbucciarel's advice. oDesk has gotten more and more competitive lately which means cheaper and cheaper and payments.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
      I took a look through there and I was just amazed. I can't believe someone wants "high quality" articles and only pay $2??? Must be people willing to do it though, right? That's too bad. Writers are worth much more than that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
        Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

        I took a look through there and I was just amazed. I can't believe someone wants "high quality" articles and only pay $2??? Must be people willing to do it though, right? That's too bad. Writers are worth much more than that.
        I think they don't actually know what high quality content is? They get something that contains the keywords they asked for along with no grammatical mistakes and are happy.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sue Nelson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

        I took a look through there and I was just amazed. I can't believe someone wants "high quality" articles and only pay $2??? Must be people willing to do it though, right? That's too bad. Writers are worth much more than that.
        I think there are a lot of people who take it, especially if they are at the beginning of their writing career. They have to start from some point, right? Maybe once they become more experienced...they think again.

        But what do you consider to be a decent price for writing an article?
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Sue Nelson View Post

          I think there are a lot of people who take it, especially if they are at the beginning of their writing career. They have to start from some point, right? Maybe once they become more experienced...they think again.

          But what do you consider to be a decent price for writing an article?
          Writers who think that way are also wrong, and the only reason the myth exists is because they try finding clients in the IM market.

          A decent price for an article? The absolute base for a complete novice should be $.05 per word. Sky's the limit from there. Some of us earn anywhere from $.50-$3.00 per word .
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  • Profile picture of the author freelancewriting
    The single, biggest problem that writers have is not knowing how to market themselves. If you don't know how and you search online for opportunities sooner or later you'll run into the outsourcing sites and content mills.
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  • Profile picture of the author freelancewriting
    And for those people who think a high-quality writer can churn out several articles in an hour - you're dreaming. Time to give your head a good, hard shake. Quality and churning things out don't go together. Quality content takes time to create, it doesn't happen in seconds.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by freelancewriting View Post

      And for those people who think a high-quality writer can churn out several articles in an hour - you're dreaming. Time to give your head a good, hard shake. Quality and churning things out don't go together. Quality content takes time to create, it doesn't happen in seconds.
      I agree, in order to produce quality content you need to take time for research, structuring and editing. The actual process of writing the article might actually be quite fast, but the other things that we need to do in order to write content that people would enjoy reading does take time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Onora Oz
    This is what happens when everyone is a writer. I'm not expecting a change in the near future, especially with all of those "make money online" products telling people that they can be writers just by writing.

    You can't be a chef just because you can cook, right? Anyways...

    P.S. I'm not aiming at Martin, or anyone in this thread. I'm just complaining about the market.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Sneen
    $2 for a blog post. Yeah sure, I want a new house for $100. That idea is only slightly more ridiculous.

    A worker should get paid what his/her work is worth. How much is a blogger's work worth? WELL over $2.

    If a person can type 50 wpm while composing material, a 500 word document takes 10 minutes just to type. Add research, links, pictures, and a good title, and you have used a lot more time. And you haven't even done the most important thing--editing!

    Try to create 3 such documents in an hour, and you will create substandard documents and burn out in a short time.

    If you research, compile your material carefully, and do a thorough job of editing, you should expect to take a minimum of an hour to create an article. Therefore, a well-written blog post should be priced based on one hour of professional time.

    I would not want to create a second rate blog post. Why would anyone want to buy one?
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by David Sneen View Post


      A good blog post should be priced based on one hour of professional time.
      Very well put.

      Also, I hate it when a gig offer says that you must have a high per minute type rate. What has that got to do with producing quality content? Assuming it's what they are after.
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      "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    "Say what?"

    I'd say get lost. Cheap clients, they're a pain in the bloody ass. Forget them. Don't work for peanuts. Period.

    Maybe Martin, just saying, but just maybe you're not looking in the right places to find much higher paying writing gigs.

    I just typed this into Google just as an experiment...

    Google

    Maybe, just maybe there might be something there for you or...

    ...you could get your hands on this excellent guide written and produced by Arfa Saira (copywriter)...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...e-reviews.html

    One or two of her other WSO's...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...eal-money.html

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ce-writer.html

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ness-fast.html

    I know whatever she produces is excellent, how do I know? Because she used to be my old business partner. Her stuff is top notch and well worth the tiny investment asked for especially if you want to attract much higher paid article writing jobs.

    Warmest regards,


    Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author easternodyssey
    Well all i can say when i write a good article it takes me about 2-3 hours, currently my website does not earn anything. However, i would never result in working for any of these paid writing sites. Like i'm not being funny, yes they are not asking for academic qualifications, Journalist experience or a written portfolio like any real world writing job, would expect you to have, plus it can boost your SEO, however, most of these sites need you more than you need them. I am looking for writers on my website, to free my time up more, and boost my content and can not afford to pay anything before the website starts earning money. However, lets face it most websites that you write for, for $2 they are getting poor quality, yet still managing to profit 2 fold or more from each article.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by easternodyssey View Post

      I am looking for writers on my website, to free my time up more, and boost my content and can not afford to pay anything before the website starts earning money.
      Sorry, I'm not buying it. Piffle. Absolute codswallop.

      For the fact is, when the latest iPhone pops on the market... voila! Suddenly everyone wants one and miracle of miracles, miraculously as if out of thin air suddenly the money is conjured up out of nowhere to pay for it. Stone the crows! Gordon Bennett! Who'd a thunk it?

      Same goes for the latest games console. Flat screen TV or whatever other gadget takes your fancy. Suddenly the money isn't an object. Yet...

      ...when it comes to investing in your very own business, that which should be helping you to acquire all these extra accessories in life, when it comes to investing in what you believe is the most profitable thing in your life - suddenly wonder of wonders nobody has the money to invest.

      Personally, I think it's more a case of prioritizing your needs. If you honestly believe your business is the best out there on the market, why on earth is it that suddenly when push comes to shove, you don't want to invest anything in it?

      Ooh look... a new gadget. And bang! Five hundred quid goes smack down on the table.

      Ironic no?


      Mark Andrews
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Martin,

      My advice to you would be to forget about oDesk and other content mills that ask their writers to work for slave labor pay.

      Quality is in the eye of the beholder. Someone from poor roots who struggled all of their life and had their new clothes hand sewn from the floral bags grain or flour came in would consider a new shirt or shorts from a Dollar General Store for five bucks, of great value and quality.

      However, those people aren't the the target for say Macy's for example and those above mentioned people would find the clothing there to be ridiculously priced, a ripoff, etc. and that's okay, for those people weren't Macy's targeted customers anyway.

      If you know your writing is of much better quality than those that work for two bits, then you need to search out your targeted audience and market to them. Invest in yourself by researching offline marketing for example and for courses that could help you. Heck, there are even ample threads here on the forum with awesome advice on targeting higher paying clients and they are free for the taking.

      Take the time to put together a nice portfolio and hit the streets or put the pedal to the medal as some say.

      You can bet that Macy's invested more time and money than Dollar Generals did. You get to choose which market you want to target and how you will target them.

      Don't get frustrated over other writers whose aim isn't as high as yours, do your due diligence, put forth time and effort, put your energy into positive things and then make it happen. It is possible. I guess it really depends on how badly you really want it.

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    You should create your own website documenting your skills, samples, case studies, and market it all over the internet. You can operate in your own zone, generate leads if you like, and set your own prices for your work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
    To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-W...tot=4011&pos=0

    "Must Speak perfect English"
    "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
    "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

    All this for the price of:

    "$1 for a 1000 word article"

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      "$1 for a 1000 word article"

      ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author jazbo
      That job *has* to be a joke right?

      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-Word-Article-Long-Term-Work_~~9bb0f64cb42ac73b?sid=54002&tot=4011&pos=0

      "Must Speak perfect English"
      "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
      "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

      All this for the price of:

      "$1 for a 1000 word article"

      ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
        Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

        That job *has* to be a joke right?
        I wish, no it's very real.

        5 applicants and 3 interviews as we speak - those unfortunate people
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    • Profile picture of the author Jordan Rhodes
      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-Word-Article-Long-Term-Work_~~9bb0f64cb42ac73b?sid=54002&tot=4011&pos=0

      "Must Speak perfect English"
      "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
      "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

      All this for the price of:

      "$1 for a 1000 word article"

      ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
      Who would work for that price?! That is quite below the average payment rates.
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    • Profile picture of the author SOCAL777
      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-W...tot=4011&pos=0

      "Must Speak perfect English"
      "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
      "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

      All this for the price of:

      "$1 for a 1000 word article"

      ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
      Even flipping burgers at McDonald's pays 20X more than that.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-Word-Article-Long-Term-Work_~~9bb0f64cb42ac73b?sid=54002&tot=4011&pos=0

      "Must Speak perfect English"
      "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
      "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

      All this for the price of:

      "$1 for a 1000 word article"

      ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
      I understand the need to convey EXACTLY what he wants/his requirements....however, he did an EXCELLENT job at isolating himself as a serious douch--bag employer. Clearly, he doesn't understand that its possible to convey his requirements without coming off the way he did. Oh yeah...and, $1, for a 1,000 word article, is absolutely asinine.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nate Simms
        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        I understand the need to convey EXACTLY what he wants/his requirements....however, he did an EXCELLENT job at isolating himself as a serious douch--bag employer. Clearly, he doesn't understand that its possible to convey his requirements without coming off the way he did. Oh yeah...and, $1, for a 1,000 word article, is absolutely asinine.
        I do not care how eloquently he phrases the advertisement.

        In the end, paying $1 for a 1,000 word article quantifies him as a d-bag. Nothing more, nothing less.
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    • Profile picture of the author easternodyssey
      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-W...tot=4011&pos=0

      "Must Speak perfect English"
      "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
      "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

      All this for the price of:

      "$1 for a 1000 word article"

      ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
      This is probably the biggest load of bull possible, however, the guy is probably looking to employ Chinese or Indians for the Job. However, i would say that the job is even under payed for a Chinese or Indian. For me i normally can tap out 6-7 articles per day which normally would take me the whole day. However, i bet the guy's website probably brings in maybe a couple of pound in CPM per week. Its the key to make money, rip the person of for writing articles and increase or CPM. It is a sad game because most web designers learn that they do not earn enough money in web design. So they do a full time work and then get some person to write them articles for nothing. Its a affective technique when it boils down to it make other people grow your site for next to nothing. Its also why social Bookmarking, social networking and web 2.0 sites have become so popular.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
        I like the bit in that oDesk ad where it says,

        "if you work with me. It takes about 20 minutes to type a 1,000 word article and another 10 minutes for research."

        I regularly write 1,000 word articles for clients, but I'm afraid 10 minutes of research isn't nearly enough time for me, and I certainly can't churn out 1,000 words of sense in 20 minutes either. Maybe that's why my clients pay me ever so slightly more than $1 a time.

        To be honest, I wouldn't even fire up Word in preparation for writing a 1,000 word article for $1 ... But add a couple of zeros to the end, and it's a reasonable starting point to negotiate on ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Cee
      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-W...tot=4011&pos=0

      "Must Speak perfect English"
      "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
      "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

      All this for the price of:

      "$1 for a 1000 word article"

      ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
      $10 a day for 10,000 words. WOW! The sheer audacity is mind-blowing.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Anybody looking for 1000 word articles for $1 hit me up. I also have a mercedez benz I'm trying to get rid of cheap ($500) its a beautiful car, very shiny, looks just like a benz, but it has a plastic engine.

    Anyways I'm sure that doesn't matter to you so email me so I can get rid of this massive POS.

    Thanks - Red
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Unfortunately there will always be people out there who want the perfect article, copyscaped, spell checked, written within 20 minutes, while standing on your head and singing a song....and they are only willing to pay $2....BUT IF you are good, they have heaps of work so you should be grateful.

    Either you bid on the jobs or you focus on ways to get better paying work. I have private clients and I also get some work through vworker which seems to be the best bidding site because there are some decent clients there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Woolard
    It's simply supply and demand..The article writing market is extremely saturated. All the really good English writers work for big companies and media.

    You're competing against the better English writers in the Phillipines, etc....It's not worth it imo...Even the best only get around $5 an article.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by denutza View Post

      Even the best only get around $5 an article.
      Wrong. The best can charge what they like.

      Myself and a former business partner for example, we've charged at the low end $50-$100 for a 500 word article and at the upper end closer to $250 per 500 words.

      The works out there, you've just got to find it.


      Mark Andrews
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    • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
      Originally Posted by denutza View Post

      It's simply supply and demand..The article writing market is extremely saturated. All the really good English writers work for big companies and media.

      You're competing against the better English writers in the Phillipines, etc....It's not worth it imo...Even the best only get around $5 an article.
      You really have had a sheltered life, haven't you. I write for a living and I get a lot more than $5 per 100 words, and I'm certainly not among "the best" either!

      To earn good money writing online, you need to market yourself efficiently. Browsing through the content mills and the odesk type places is not marketing.

      Writing for a living online is a serious business that pays extremely well if you do it right, and a silly game where "the best only get around $5 an article" if you don't.

      You are able to decide where you want to be positioned, so where you are is where you have chosen to be. The funny thing about success is that, the harder to work towards your goal, the more successful you get.

      John.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by denutza View Post

      The article writing market is extremely saturated ... at the bottom end where the clients don't understand how to use the products anyway, and imagine that article marketing is part of SEO, so they have to be continually replaced as clients by the writer simply because their own "businesses" are typically very temporary ones.
      "Fixed that for you."

      Had to lengthen it a little, as you see - but relax: nobody's charging by the word, in this thread.

      Originally Posted by denutza View Post

      Even the best only get around $5 an article.
      It's beyond my writing skills to fix that one: it has nothing in it that can be salvaged or remedied. It's just untrue. Deletion is its best hope.

      ================================

      Martin, possibly the discussions in these two threads might help/interest you ...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6140296

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5368108

      One of the most effective ways to earn money from writing for others is simply to have regularly returning clients, so that you don't need to find and bring in new business all the time. That means supplying articles to customers whose own businesses survive and prosper, because they know how to use the product.

      First, if you read through the following recent threads, you'll find many helpful observations and suggestions.

      Article writing pricing...

      How about starting a website for offering article writing service?

      i have questions about Freelance writing

      Can article writing be a career

      Marketing Articles

      Tips for getting started on writing articles for money?

      Secondly, if you want to think a little more about "the markets in which ones chooses to compete, as a writer", you might find some of these resources helpful/interesting (and most of the recommendations in them for "further reading" will also be pretty reliable ones, I think) ...

      Jennifer Mattern's blog

      Carol Tice's blog

      Freelance writing jobs (minmum payment requirement of $50 per article to be listed there)

      Free report on how to attract new freelance writing clients during a recession

      The Renegade Writer Blog

      The "Irreverent Freelancer" blog

      The Well-Fed Writer: Lucrative Commercial Freelance Writing - Land Lucrative Freelance Writing Jobs

      Words on the Page.

      I haven't myself clicked on these for some months, so apologies in advance for any defunct links, above. Good luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by JMSD View Post

        On the whole, I'd agree with you - $2 per article is an absurd figure (unless it's spun).

        But if someone is skilled at writing, they could churn out several articles in an hour which would then yield a better result.

        Jamie
        Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

        I took a look through there and I was just amazed. I can't believe someone wants "high quality" articles and only pay $2??? Must be people willing to do it though, right? That's too bad. Writers are worth much more than that.
        Point one...

        Why not ask for the moon and see if someone is naive enough to deliver it? Just because these people are posting this type of job doesn't mean they all expect to get it.

        Point two...

        Many of the people advertising for 'quality articles' wouldn't know one if it bit them on the posterior.

        Not pointing fingers, but there was a guy who recently posted links to a few of his articles, which were mediocre at best. I was amazed at how many people responded by telling him how good the articles were, and how they were worth much more than what he was charging for them.

        If "quality article" means meeting a word count, including a keyword a specified number of times, avoiding obvious spelling and grammar problems and passing some mechanical plagiarism checker, maybe $2-$5 is a fair price.

        If your standards are higher, look for clients who match - with budgets to back up their judgment.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Koebele
      That's not true at all. I have a fantastic income from my freelance writing. I used elance to add to my business and word of mouth works wonders.

      Originally Posted by denutza View Post

      It's simply supply and demand..The article writing market is extremely saturated. All the really good English writers work for big companies and media.

      You're competing against the better English writers in the Phillipines, etc....It's not worth it imo...Even the best only get around $5 an article.
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  • Profile picture of the author ambrown31
    Lol, shame that people are cheap when it comes to quality writing but will waste $100's on ppc.
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  • Profile picture of the author bsbear
    It gets absolutely ridiculous at those retarded freelance sites, they are like poison, and attract all the noobs that lowball your offers.
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    • Profile picture of the author jazzygelable
      I write for some clients there and the ridiculous offers have been around ever since. I just wait until the client realizes that he gets his money's worth. Most of my clients learned the hard way.

      I once got a $20 offer for an ebook that should contain 50k words. I took my time to write a long reply saying that he'll find no decent writer with his budget.
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
        Originally Posted by jazzygelable View Post

        I once got a $20 offer for an ebook that should contain 50k words. I took my time to write a long reply saying that he'll find no decent writer with his budget.
        Would be interested to know what the reply was, if you got one at all?



        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Have you ever seen the oDesk jobs where someone wants a profitable niche site built for them?
        Yeah I've seem them, really ridiculous, I mean if you were to create a site like that then why would you sell it?

        And to demand such a successful site just shows total mis-comprehension of what is actually involved in creating one.

        My point in regards to this thread is that, the marketplace is flooded with such deluded people. If there were a couple here and there, then it wouldn't be such an issue.

        I also think the problem propagates itself when some novice enters the IM arena and sees that people are charging $2 per article. The thought will be - "Wow such low rates, why look elsewhere for writers? or why charge more?" So they put up a similar offer. Then another novice comes and sees that job posting and so on...
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        • Profile picture of the author JonVinci
          Eh, you get what you pay for. I have no problem seeing these offers because I know they are not going to get real quality back. Back when I was a slave to Google and in the niche game, I would buy cheap articles merely as unique filler to hide keywords to push through SEO. I knew I wasn't getting real quality but I didn't care.

          So if people are actually using these articles for a site that they really want to promote and provide value to their visitors... well, I can tell you that won't last long
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        • Profile picture of the author jazzygelable
          Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

          Would be interested to know what the reply was, if you got one at all?
          He replied that he'll eventually pay me more once he sells the ebook. He promised a 20% share on every copy sold. I maybe new in IM but I knew then that if ever I get to finish an ebook of that length, I'll be better off selling it myself. What's even worse is that his topic is something that's technical. From what I remember, I think it was Currency Trading/Forex.
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  • Profile picture of the author eugenedm
    Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    Searching through the sea of poorly paid writing jobs at oDesk in the hopes of fining a decent one just gets to me sometimes.

    People say they want creative, engaging, superstar writers that can produce content fast. But then say that they are only willing to part with a measly $2 in exchange for all that.

    Some of the ads even say that you have to be from the US. This is ridiculous, who would work for those rates in the US, do they even understand it's humans writing these articles. Not some Internet organism based entity that exists to meet their content needs.

    I like the idea of oDesk and it's user interface is brilliant. Their withdrawal system also works very well for me. I just wish there was a similar marketplace out there where a reasonable minimum price barrier could not be breached. And if it is then could be effectively filtered out from my search results.
    I completely agree who would want to write content fast and get paid for only $2 for each content especially if you want someone from the US. The thing is if you want to hire people from other countries like the Philippines or India then the writers there may want to consider $2 per content or article.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Have you ever seen the oDesk jobs where someone wants a profitable niche site built for them? The ad copy typically goes like this:

    I want you to build me a niche site that earns money with AdSense. I want it to earn at least $300 per month for 3 months before I purchase it from you. I'm going to need you to build it, get it earning, and then show me proof. I'll then take over the site for 30 days to test it out and make sure it's earning and then I'll pay you.

    Budget for this project: $200
    Crazy, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    I just wish there was a similar marketplace out there where a reasonable minimum price barrier could not be breached.
    I wish someone would guarantee me a minimum price for what I do as well but unfortunately that's not the way markets work. Everyone is free to charge and pay whatever they like.

    You don't grow a business by showing the low ballers the error of their ways and attempting to charge them more (at least not when there are a million people willing to undercut you anyway).

    Instead, take your business to people that are willing to pay a premium for your better services. Those people are the ones that can get an awesome ROI on your work and thus can pay for the better result.

    Let's take the example of a copywriter. Plenty of people are running WSOs that couldn't get a return on a $97 letter, even if Colin Theriot or Kevin Rogers or Neil Murton wrote it, simply because they wouldn't put enough traffic through it. They'll say things like "But Colin, I can't pay you any more because I won't make any money."

    Colin, Kevin and Neil don't waste their time trying to change the lower baller's mind. They go find someone like me who will pay them five figures for a letter because even a fraction of a percent improvement on the conversion rate is worth a fortune to me because I'll put that much traffic through the offer.

    Apply the same approach to your business. Get out of the virtual slums and go find people that can get an awesome return on your work and they'll be able to pay you handsomely.
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  • For $2 people could only expect my writings, from an Italian and without any proof reading, ahahahah.

    I never hired people for less than $5 for a 400 words article, generally I got them from "Warriors for Hire" section, where I always got quality writings.
    For that $2 amount I suggest to generate articles from old-style autospinners, it's the same.

    Thanks and see you soon,
    Alessandro
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyRaker
    At odesk its all about taking the heat first, and then building a business over time. Its not like everyone at odesk is paid nuts. If you have lots of positive reviews, and have been providing high quality service for a long time - you eventually improve your earnings. Also, once you build long term customers - you can charge them higher, they'll respect your hard work. Its just about putting in the initial 3 months where you simply work for building a long term business - without worrying about how much you're paid.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by MoneyRaker View Post

      If you have lots of positive reviews, and have been providing high quality service for a long time - you eventually improve your earnings.
      Doesn't sound very promising
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  • Profile picture of the author vCr8
    I agree that oDesk has a good interface and system... I remember one time when they sent out a survey, I suggested that there should be a standard rate for writers since I feel that writer's work is significantly devalued there. Well anyway don't waste your time with those clients...you will eventually find some that are willing to pay for the quality you can deliver.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post

      I remember one time when they sent out a survey, I suggested that there should be a standard rate for writers since I feel that writer's work is significantly devalued there.
      Yes, it would be nice to have a minimum standard rate, but then that wouldn't be good business sense by oDesk. More transactions means more money and that's part of the problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author vCr8
        Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

        Yes, it would be nice to have a minimum standard rate, but then that wouldn't be good business sense by oDesk. More transactions means more money and that's part of the problem.
        I agree with you here... Well I must add that another comment I sent them was they should also start on protecting the contractors as well... It seems too client oriented for my taste.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
    I think the lesson here, for writers, is that it's pretty much pointless to even let the website address of sites like odesk, iwriter, etc touch your browser bar. Unless, of course, you're doing the purchasing.

    Writers from US/UK/Canada/etc will *never* be able to compete on price with the content mills from places like India & Philippines that frequent freelance sites.

    The time wasted pumping out 1000 word articles for $2 could be spent on so many other profitable activities. Trying to use the freelancing sites to turn $2 article purchasers into high paying clients is an absolute fantasy.

    The only place I've found that I would ever considering freelancing at (if I was a decent writer) is Buy Unique Articles, Order Web Site Content, Hire Freelance Article Writers and SEO Content Writers - Constant Content - Custom Website Content
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    • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
      Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

      People say they want creative, engaging, superstar writers that can produce content fast. But then say that they are only willing to part with a measly $2 in exchange for all that.
      I totally understand your frustration, Martin, and there are definitely alot of people out there who think this is a legitimate offer . I think people are emboldened by the anonymity of the internet. After all, they don't have to make this ridiculous offer to your face (or even over the phone). They can make all of the insane demands they want, all while hiding behind a computer screen.

      The web is always going to be full of those kinds of people -- and they're never going to change. The only thing you can do is change the way you respond to them.

      First, stay off of Fiver, Odesk, and the like. I can tell you that I have never ever looked for work on any of those sites, because that's not where the quality clients are. The people you want to be working for (the ones who are going to pay you what you're worth) know that those sites are full of wannabe writers. Sure, there may be some talented gems hiding on those sites, but for the most part, they're full of people who are willing to churn out garbage content for garbage rates.

      Second, follow Randall's advice:

      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      You should create your own website documenting your skills, samples, case studies, and market it all over the internet. You can operate in your own zone, generate leads if you like, and set your own prices for your work.
      Remember, you're in charge of your business. That means you get to decide who you work for and how much you charge. If you try to keep pace with the "churners", you'll burn out quickly -- and you'll never attract the good clients.

      Third, once you've set the rules for your own business, learn to laugh at the absurd requests, because there's always going to be someone out there who wants something for nothing. I once got an email saying the person needed a 100 page ebook done for $100. I got a big belly laugh before I hit the "delete" button
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
        Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post


        First, stay off of Fiver, Odesk, and the like. I can tell you that I have never ever looked for work on any of those sites, because that's not where the quality clients are.
        I think I will put that advice into practice starting from now.
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        "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
          Banned
          It all comes down to how you position yourself in the marketplace.

          So your industry, yep, you're a writer working within the writing industry or so you may think. Maybe, just maybe, just saying, you really need to identify your niche within this field first.

          In other words, what is your precise specialization as a writer?

          If you offer writing services willy nilly to all and sundry without specializing on a particular niche where you can clearly demonstrate your expertise, is it any wonder you're only going to receive paltry sums of money for the effort expended trying to help these people?

          The truth however is, if you differentiate yourself, carve out a niche for yourself where you're perceived to be the expert, the go to authority figure for the niche in question, your writing fee's, the fee's you command, these will rise exponentially as a direct result of this action.

          You're in control of your writing careers. Nobody else is. The marketplace does not dictate to you how much you should charge. What you feel you're worth is completely up to you.

          If you think you're worth just $5 per 500 word article then this is what you will aspire to become. On the other hand if you think your writing is worth $100 per 500 words, you'll have no problem finding those potential clients who willingly will pay you this fee (and more) for your skills.

          Now get out there and start marketing yourself!

          Where do you want to be in a years time? Back where you started still earning a fraction of what you're worth or...

          ...earning your real worth?


          Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author RosieT
    Have any of the writers here tried writing for Constant Content? I tried it and sold one article of about 900 words for $65 the other day. I keep meaning to submit more but have not had a chance to getting around to doing it yet. They do take a 35% cut which I suppose is not totally unreasonable but at least it still leaves you with a sensible amount of money for your work. Just my experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by RosieT View Post

      Have any of the writers here tried writing for Constant Content?
      It's about the only content mill type site that I'd be comfortable recommending for a few reasons:

      1. Quality: each article is hand reviewed. If you're rejected, you're told why. Pretty much a free way to get your content critiqued. Bring thick skin if you're a newbie though.

      2. Pricing: start yourself off at $.05 per word (after the cut). Take nothing less. People will pay it, which leafs to the site's best benefit...

      3. Portfolio/Reputation: Want to be known as a fashion expert? Prove you can sell articles in that category, and keep track of where they're published. Instant niche credibility.

      Now, the monthly payments are a turnoff for some, nut if you're desperate you shouldn't be counting on writing to save the day anyways. Get a job andtough it out.
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  • Quality content for $2 is absurd. Unless you are buying PLR content. They are not looking for quality content for this rate. Their definition of "quality" must be quite different than that of a real writer. 100% unique quality written content is not churned out, nor is it given away practically free. oDesk is full of these jobs. I can't imagine anyone working for this rate in the US. You can hardly buy a loaf of bread for that rate.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      Even funnier is when a client (who couldn't speak or understand English to save their life) tells you the article is "garbage" or "unusable" and wants a refund. LOL just pathetic..

      But regarding the OP, yea man.. I can't believe how many people expect native English writers to type up these giant novels (like 1k words or something) for 10 dollars. ha..

      If you want writers who have grown up in America, you have to pay American rates for the work.

      You get what you pay for. This is true with EVERYTHING in life.

      Allow me to use this photo as an example

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      • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
        Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

        Even funnier is when a client (who couldn't speak or understand English to save their life) tells you the article is "garbage" or "unusable" and wants a refund. LOL just pathetic..

        But regarding the OP, yea man.. I can't believe how many people expect native English writers to type up these giant novels (like 1k words or something) for 10 dollars. ha..

        If you want writers who have grown up in America, you have to pay American rates for the work.

        You get what you pay for. This is true with EVERYTHING in life.

        Allow me to use this photo as an example

        Now THAT is a great pic. Lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author Saito
        Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

        Even funnier is when a client (who couldn't speak or understand English to save their life) tells you the article is "garbage" or "unusable" and wants a refund. LOL just pathetic..

        But regarding the OP, yea man.. I can't believe how many people expect native English writers to type up these giant novels (like 1k words or something) for 10 dollars. ha..

        If you want writers who have grown up in America, you have to pay American rates for the work.

        You get what you pay for. This is true with EVERYTHING in life.

        Allow me to use this photo as an example

        I would venture to say that NOTHING is true with EVERYTHING in life.

        You get what you pay for in general, yes, but all my life I have consistently found people just as good and consistent as those who are more expensive but with lower rates, with a little hunting and searching.

        No one says "You get what you pay for" more than those charging too much, IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
    Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    Searching through the sea of poorly paid writing jobs at oDesk in the hopes of fining a decent one just gets to me sometimes.

    People say they want creative, engaging, superstar writers that can produce content fast. But then say that they are only willing to part with a measly $2 in exchange for all that.

    Some of the ads even say that you have to be from the US. This is ridiculous, who would work for those rates in the US, do they even understand it's humans writing these articles. Not some Internet organism based entity that exists to meet their content needs.

    I like the idea of oDesk and it's user interface is brilliant. Their withdrawal system also works very well for me. I just wish there was a similar marketplace out there where a reasonable minimum price barrier could not be breached. And if it is then could be effectively filtered out from my search results.
    Go from being a writer to a person who invests in content and builds websites & paid information. You will get better returns from your investment of time, energy and money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by Deepak Media View Post

      Go from being a writer to a person who invests in content and builds websites & paid information. You will get better returns from your investment of time, energy and money.
      I'm looking into something like that and doing freelance writing simultaneously
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  • Profile picture of the author Martin Lee Jr
    It's all IM's fault - I have never seen such low prices until Internet Marketing came on the scene.

    A good writer (and that is all you should really be dealing with even if it's just for SEO purposes) will take hours to write a decent article, and you should be paid for your hours worth .

    I agree with an earlier example - Start a website with some samples and case studies, market it, and go from there. You are worth more than $2.00 an article
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    If I'm not mistaken there is a search feature in oDesk where you
    can place your criteria for jobs, including the price range.

    So why bicker about the low-balling clients? You can automatically
    ignore them.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author TheWrightWords
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      If I'm not mistaken there is a search feature in oDesk where you
      can place your criteria for jobs, including the price range.

      So why bicker about the low-balling clients? You can automatically
      ignore them.

      -Ray Edwards
      I am only familiar with elance, so odesk may be different, but even sorting by proposed budget doesn't work well. Why? Because it allows in the guy with the $100 stated budget--for 50 articles!
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  • Profile picture of the author Green Moon
    I still remember the first article I ever sold to a magazine publisher. It was about 1000 words and I got a check for $50, which is a lot of money for a 17 year old.

    Oh, and that was 1970. My "regular" after-school job paid $1.25 an hour, so my pay for the one article was the equivalent of a week's salary for me.

    I can't believe how low the prices for content are today. Part of the blame lies with the readers, though. They will continue to visit sites with terribly written content that expresses the same regurgitated information without infusing a single new idea or even a fresh angle on an old idea. If readers were more discerning, then more publishers might take note and pay more for better content.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheWrightWords
    Another lovely gem, this one from elance!


    "This job listing is for a product "squeeze page". The compensation is $25-50. Website should include the marketing strategies : catchy sales copy and keyword rich text placed with SEO (search engine optimization). Some advanced marketers should use video and audio if possible. GOAL The goal of the page is to obtain the visitor's email address- keep that in mind while working on this project" cheap, stinky buyer, elance
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  • Profile picture of the author WiltonChu
    This is really way too underpaid $2 for a price of an article!lol what could this client be thinking maybe he wants something that's not in good quality...Writing is a talent and writers should be getting what they deserve. God it isn't easy to write a 500 word article for a car service client. However, there can be a lot of good clients out there, its just that there is a diverse competition online....
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  • Profile picture of the author cyberws
    I saw an ad just yesterday:

    * Must be a native English speaker
    * 500 words minimum
    * researched with footnotes and references

    Pay: $1 per article

    But, hey, laughter is good for the body so I generated some positive hormones yesterday. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Jemtrum
    Banned
    The warrior forum is the best place IMHO. A plethora of choices if you hunt well. Try each one out. I'm sureyou will find a few good picks.
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  • Profile picture of the author NeilC
    There's certainly some crazy low rates being offered on odesk and other places but people seem to be taking the jobs so it just drives prices down.
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  • Profile picture of the author TTF
    Wow - some interesting and laughable requests there then. lol! I've used other copy services such as Brad Callens iWriter and paid the "premium service" which is about $9.50 per thousand words and the "elite service" which costs $18.50 per thousand words. I didn't see much difference in quality between the two services to be honest. On both cases the articles were fairly well written but lacked REAL research on the subject and felt a bit like re-written wikipedia posts in parts. In either case I wouldn't have felt comfortable passing them off as my own posts on my money / business sites (is that called ghostwriting). Perhaps some of that is down to my brief?

    I digress... What I wanted to ask you pro writers is - What is a fair price for your work? Do you have tiered pricing for different types of work? Other than working with you directly, are there any freelance type sites you are happy working for and that you would recommend buyers use?
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  • Profile picture of the author Socialbakers
    I personally am not surprised anymore. People just want as much as they can get for as little as possible. They don't care about the people that would write for them, they just want the job done and cut their costs to a minimum. It's worthless even trying to do something about it, because it's in the nature of humans to be stingy.
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  • Honestly I'm a writer but I'm starting to get really tired of these threads.

    It's been explained a billion times.

    These clients don't really care if the content is readable, they just want fodder to embed links in for SEO and adsense purposes.

    These people are just playing around with a little money making experiment. 90% of the time they aren't real businesses, and their little projects won't go anywhere. Let them have their bit of fun playing mr. entrepreneur for a day and get on with your life.
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  • Profile picture of the author Trev81
    To some people on elance, and odesk $2 income for an article is significant. It might not be for you or for me but that much can mean a huge difference to peoples lives in certain countries. Is that not the jist of these sites? Get cheaper labour by using a lower cost economy so maximise your profits?

    In my previous job we sold software and they would never budge on price. Taught me that if you have a quality product/service to provide, have confidence in it and don't keep dropping your pants anytime a deal comes along.
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    • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      If I'm not mistaken there is a search feature in oDesk where you
      can place your criteria for jobs, including the price range.

      So why bicker about the low-balling clients? You can automatically
      ignore them.

      -Ray Edwards
      Unfortunately, some lie I found a guy wanting a zombie survival guide, sounded cool so I applied. He had given a nice price range than went high enough for me to think it was worth my while. He came back with saying my offer was 10x too high...

      One of the reasons I left oDesk was because the number of quality jobs dried up. They all left. I kept 2 clients from there who are willing to pay higher rates, but the rest I shed and didn't cry (although a couple said they will get in touch in the future at my higher prices). It's got silly recently.
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      • Originally Posted by BudaBrit View Post

        Unfortunately, some lie I found a guy wanting a zombie survival guide, sounded cool so I applied. He had given a nice price range than went high enough for me to think it was worth my while. He came back with saying my offer was 10x too high...

        One of the reasons I left oDesk was because the number of quality jobs dried up. They all left. I kept 2 clients from there who are willing to pay higher rates, but the rest I shed and didn't cry (although a couple said they will get in touch in the future at my higher prices). It's got silly recently.
        I still get well paying work there for sales copy projects, but it's mostly private invites that I get because I have 5 stars from 40 reviews and 400 hours. Most of the public postings there are pretty much crap, I have to admit. I think if I were just getting started on odesk today, I probably wouldn't get anywhere with it.

        You know that dating site, Plentyoffish? Where the guys complain that the girls never respond, and the girls complain that they guys are all sending pervy messages?

        I think odesk is pretty much the POF of freelancing.

        Go to the community forum and you'll see clients bitching about contractors not doing the work as they asked, and contractors complaining about slavery wages. It's clear what's going on: both sides have unrealistic expectations. The clients want passable work done for peanuts, while the contractors want to get paid well even though they're not really competent. When you step back a bit and look at it you see that it's just a bunch of people who have no clue what they're doing, on both sides.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Pupke
      Originally Posted by Trev81 View Post

      To some people on elance, and odesk $2 income for an article is significant. It might not be for you or for me but that much can mean a huge difference to peoples lives in certain countries. Is that not the jist of these sites? Get cheaper labour by using a lower cost economy so maximise your profits?

      In my previous job we sold software and they would never budge on price. Taught me that if you have a quality product/service to provide, have confidence in it and don't keep dropping your pants anytime a deal comes along.
      Yes your right, in some countries working for $2/article is reasonable. However the posts clearly state they require native English speakers.
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author Trev81
        Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

        Yes your right, in some countries working for $2/article is reasonable. However the posts clearly state they require native English speakers.
        Ahhhh, missed that one. Oops. That is definitely bad form.
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  • Profile picture of the author tianan
    Moral of the story: when you're competing against people who are OK with making $2 or $5 an hour, it doesn't matter how high of quality you'll have, it won't be worth it. It's better to advertise locally, find some local gigs, or set up a basic wordpress site to bring in clients from than to hit up odesk and freelancer. Reality is people looking for work on freelancer and odesk don't expect quality anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author fedor50
    Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    Searching through the sea of poorly paid writing jobs at oDesk in the hopes of fining a decent one just gets to me sometimes.

    People say they want creative, engaging, superstar writers that can produce content fast. But then say that they are only willing to part with a measly $2 in exchange for all that.

    Some of the ads even say that you have to be from the US. This is ridiculous, who would work for those rates in the US, do they even understand it's humans writing these articles. Not some Internet organism based entity that exists to meet their content needs.

    I like the idea of oDesk and it's user interface is brilliant. Their withdrawal system also works very well for me. I just wish there was a similar marketplace out there where a reasonable minimum price barrier could not be breached. And if it is then could be effectively filtered out from my search results.
    I agree with this post. You're not going to be able to get a quality writer for a mere $2. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for"
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    I've started using iWriter to fund my niche sites that I write myself. I don't want to use my 'real money' yet, not while I am still learning. So am funding it by writing. I need the practice as well, which is a big part of it. I put up a couple of test jobs in iWriter to see what the standard was like. TERRIBLE. The articles are usually spun or the English is horrendous. I then realised that the articles I was writing were way too good for the price.

    So what I now do is write something legible, do a TINY bit of research, and just 'free write' for ten minutes. I still get 5* ratings on every single article. Not hard. The thing you have to realise is that MOST people are using these articles for tiered link-building. They will not be using them on their money site (unless it's a crap micro niche adsense site with worthless information). I don't want to provide good quality for $2 so I do what is 'good enough'. They will just be happy that you sound like a person rather than a machine spinning content with ridiculous words that no one actually uses in practice.

    Look for clients that have plenty of jobs under their belts (so they know what the standard is) and have a good approval rating. If it's too low, you know they will be asking for the world. Not worth the hassle. I am almost at the elite writer level so that will make more money. Good way of getting in touch with people that want repeat work is by going to the sites they are advertising. Often they will say 'this is for www.mysite.com'. Go there and get in touch with them, do a private deal after having done a few through iWriter. I think it's worth doing for the right reasons. Practice writing with keyword rich content, get a feel for the industry, get some pocket money for beers at the weekend. Eventually I am hopefully going to be working on the niche sites only and will stop writing for iWriter. For serious writers (or just people that can write in somewhat decent English), it's ultimately not worth it. It's good while you're trying to 'make it' as it provides an extra bit of income. I also think it's a good place for people learning English or living in the third world, earning extra cash. For them $2 is a lot. Plenty of such writers actually become decent over time. So I don't want to bash iWriter too much for that reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
      Originally Posted by elperuanito View Post

      Often they will say 'this is for www.mysite.com'. Go there and get in touch with them, do a private deal after having done a few through iWriter. I think it's worth doing for the right reasons. Practice writing with keyword rich content, get a feel for the industry, get some pocket money for beers at the weekend. Eventually I am hopefully going to be working on the niche sites only and will stop writing for iWriter. For serious writers (or just people that can write in somewhat decent English), it's ultimately not worth it. It's good while you're trying to 'make it' as it provides an extra bit of income. I also think it's a good place for people learning English or living in the third world, earning extra cash. For them $2 is a lot. Plenty of such writers actually become decent over time. So I don't want to bash iWriter too much for that reason.
      You could be treadin on some TOS there... I've never used iWriter, but most freelance sites really frown upon contacting their clients outside of the site for direct work. They consider their sellers their clients, not your clients, and they get real cranky when you try to do an "end around" and "steal" their clients. That can usually get you banned from their site.
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      I just added this sig so I can refer to it in my posts...

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      • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
        Originally Posted by cjreynolds View Post

        You could be treadin on some TOS there... I've never used iWriter, but most freelance sites really frown upon contacting their clients outside of the site for direct work. They consider their sellers their clients, not your clients, and they get real cranky when you try to do an "end around" and "steal" their clients. That can usually get you banned from their site.
        This is why I say go to their websites directly and do a private deal. Don't say anything on iWriter itself. The freelance sites are there to exploit the individuals and make money. You put in your hours, log time and build confidence, then you get out. You're then replaced by some other newbie. I wouldn't use iWriter if I thought of it as a long-term option... it's not worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author cassandraw
    I know what you mean, it is so frustrating. What is even more frustrating is when you see someone wanting 100 articles for $1. Now that really got to me..
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  • Profile picture of the author 1thSupernova
    check contently.com
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyTorrents
    The sad thing is that a lot of people would be happy to work for this rate (non native english speakers of course). On almost all of the posts like this that i have seen there are tons of people basically begging for the job.
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  • Profile picture of the author Saito
    I don't compete. I would not go on those sites looking for work and getting piled into the same group of desperate fish as everyone else. I would contact online publishers directly who already make a lot of money and can afford to pay good writers what they are worth.

    Having said that, I HIRE on Elance/Odesk all the time. But my mindset is completely different...very cutthroat. And why not? That is the game those applying have chosen to play. find a different strategy than to compete head-on.

    Having said that, I'm wondering what I could pay a good writer per original 600-word article these days...$15? $20?
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  • Profile picture of the author murphyslaw
    You get what you pay for. $2 / 500 word articles usually mean keywords are present, no grammatical or typos, done on time and usually makes no sense whatsoever. Written for SEO and not for consumption.
    Newbies to oDesk grab these jobs to earn feedback and logged hours. No shortage of those at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author TomBuck
    You know why it is though, because there is so much competition.

    If there was only 1 type of mobile phone, how much would they charge?

    A bomb!

    But because there are loads of phones and loads of companies you can get unlimited this, unlimited that and a free phone for £20/month.
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      It's excellent when these guys sell cheap articles. It just makes my service, my content and me stand out more. There's a market for everyone and plenty to go around.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Hey Jason!

      I'm thrilled to see you back!

      Okay, I know it's not funny, but really it is!

      Elliptical trainer, sometimes mentioned to as irritated training sneakers
      Haha!

      Mind if I borrow that?

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

          If you pay me $14.50 (so I can make a $0.50 profit), you can actually have all 5 articles in their entirety to mock as you please.

          -- j

          (And it's good to see you too, Ms. Terror!)
          Haha! Thanks but no thanks!

          I'm sorry your investment didn't quite pay off, truly I am, but I'm sure you've heard the old adage that a fool and their money soon part? Well, my momma didn't raise no fool!

          Shame on me! Was that terror enough for ya! :p

          Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      but I get a lot of tire-kickers and people who are not really interested in paying for good content; they'd rather "test my service" and then disappear off the face of the planet.
      You're not kidding on that one, Jay. As of now, most of my clients are typically offliners who are having me write for their clients. They know the value of good writing, so they never bat an eye to pay for it.

      I also get a lot of folks who try to get me to drive down my prices lower than they already are. Some have even mentioned they could get content elsewhere for cheaper. I always tell them to do what they feel is best. 99% of the time, they eventually return to order because the quality from the others just wasn't there.

      For anyone else who is a writer, just remember to know your worth and stick to it. Work with clients who need and VALUE what you have to offer and never be afraid to "fire a client" who isn't a good fit for you.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
          Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

          I've fired a few after I made sure they were satisfied with the quality of the work. I'm here to make some money so that I can enjoy my life in a way that my day job can't allow me to do. Why do I want to take on extra headaches?
          Agreed. I had to let one go awhile back after a revision was requested nearly 5 weeks after the content was delivered (and I can literally count on one hand the amount of times I've had to actually do any revision).

          The reason? The content didn't meet the submission requirements of a site that was never mentioned in the original order. I was "expected" to do the revisions for free to fit these NEW requirements.

          That would be like me hiring a lawn mowing company to mow my lawn, only to call back over a month later and tell them that they forgot to pick up all of the sticks in my yard and that they need to come pick them up today at no charge.

          Now, if they would have wrote me a day or two later and mentioned that they forgot to give me a specific set of instructions, I more than likely would've tweaked them quickly at no cost without a big issue. 5 weeks though? Not so much...

          Business is always smooth when you and the other party know what to expect from each other upfront. Makes things easier and much more fun that way. And, of course, dramatically lessens the chances of any headaches
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          Want to speed up your writing and save time?
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    • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      I know I said I wasn't going to post any more to the WF, but sometimes you just have to go back on what you said.

      This thread is one of those times.

      Let me preface this first by saying that I am not going to name names. For those who are wondering, it's easy enough to figure out who I'm talking about, but I am not giving any hints.

      3 weeks ago I used one of the "el cheapo" article writers from overseas. I contacted him right here in the WFH section and explained what I wanted. I was starting on a personal project and needed a lot of content written quickly, and quality wasn't something I was worried about for it since it was for me. I figured I could get it produced and then edit it myself.

      I submitted an order for 20K words (20 articles) to put across 10 niche sites I was building, and I was promised delivery in 3-4 days. I think the guy charged me $100 to do it.

      Do you want to know what I got in exchange for my money? Here are a few examples, taken just from the opening paragraphs:







      For the $100 I spent, I ended up getting 5 articles of the "quality" displayed above. When I complained, the guy disappeared for 24 hours and then refunded me $86. So I ended up wasting a week and $14 to get a bunch of unreadable gibberish. When I left a long reply in the guy's WFH thread, he tried to argue that he'd had a sudden 'emergency' or 'crisis' and that caused problems with his business, all the while he had made multiple posts here on the WF.

      Wonderful, right? Isn't that just the kind of content that you would love to display and show pride in on your website?

      I don't think so.

      I run a discount service here on the WF with my own company. I charge much higher prices outside of this forum, and I get them routinely with no effort because people who are NOT involved in IM understand what copy & content are worth. I still make a good bit of money here in the WF, but I get a lot of tire-kickers and people who are not really interested in paying for good content; they'd rather "test my service" and then disappear off the face of the planet. That doesn't happen with the clients I get from other places who are willing to pay what the content is worth.

      When you visit a site like Elance, oDesk, iWriter, vWorker, and even 1/2 of the writers in WFH, you're viewing people who weren't born in the USA. You working with people who don't understand the idiosyncrasies of the constantly-changing American language. They learned English out of a textbook or even out of bad 80s and 90s movies and don't have the experience to know that our language evolves on a yearly and even monthly basis.

      Look how many new words Websters adds to its dictionary every single year. Doesn't that tell you something?

      When you hire a writer, you're hiring someone who is writing words that will be portrayed as your own writing to your clientele. Your customers don't care who wrote it, and they're often not even going to consider the fact that you didn't write the content yourself. If your sites and advertisements are full of badly-constructed sentences and typos, guess who is losing business?

      Hint: Not the writer. You've already paid him. You're the one who is not getting paid because they customers won't trust you.

      The next time you go looking for someone to represent your business through a wonderfully written piece of content, remember that you get what you pay for, and you need to have really high standards. If you don't care how your business looks to your customer, hire the guy who is charging $0.99 for 500 words.

      Don't be surprised when you're not making any sales, though.

      -- j
      Jeez! That's really bad. Are you sure someone didn't write in his/her language and used google to translate it?

      I am not a native english speaker but I doubt I would do a poor job at writing article such as the examples you have given above. The least that could happen is a little spelling error due to typing fast, which I can fix if I go over my work.

      And you paid $100? Hmmm... This is an eye-opener for me I guess.

      May be I should come in and save people from headache,but I wont be as cheap as most people here. I won't dare write an article for $5.
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    • Profile picture of the author SeanMurphy91
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      I know I said I wasn't going to post any more to the WF, but sometimes you just have to go back on what you said.

      This thread is one of those times.

      Let me preface this first by saying that I am not going to name names. For those who are wondering, it's easy enough to figure out who I'm talking about, but I am not giving any hints.

      3 weeks ago I used one of the "el cheapo" article writers from overseas. I contacted him right here in the WFH section and explained what I wanted. I was starting on a personal project and needed a lot of content written quickly, and quality wasn't something I was worried about for it since it was for me. I figured I could get it produced and then edit it myself.

      I submitted an order for 20K words (20 articles) to put across 10 niche sites I was building, and I was promised delivery in 3-4 days. I think the guy charged me $100 to do it.

      Do you want to know what I got in exchange for my money? Here are a few examples, taken just from the opening paragraphs:







      For the $100 I spent, I ended up getting 5 articles of the "quality" displayed above. When I complained, the guy disappeared for 24 hours and then refunded me $86. So I ended up wasting a week and $14 to get a bunch of unreadable gibberish. When I left a long reply in the guy's WFH thread, he tried to argue that he'd had a sudden 'emergency' or 'crisis' and that caused problems with his business, all the while he had made multiple posts here on the WF.

      Wonderful, right? Isn't that just the kind of content that you would love to display and show pride in on your website?

      I don't think so.

      I run a discount service here on the WF with my own company. I charge much higher prices outside of this forum, and I get them routinely with no effort because people who are NOT involved in IM understand what copy & content are worth. I still make a good bit of money here in the WF, but I get a lot of tire-kickers and people who are not really interested in paying for good content; they'd rather "test my service" and then disappear off the face of the planet. That doesn't happen with the clients I get from other places who are willing to pay what the content is worth.

      When you visit a site like Elance, oDesk, iWriter, vWorker, and even 1/2 of the writers in WFH, you're viewing people who weren't born in the USA. You working with people who don't understand the idiosyncrasies of the constantly-changing American language. They learned English out of a textbook or even out of bad 80s and 90s movies and don't have the experience to know that our language evolves on a yearly and even monthly basis.

      Look how many new words Websters adds to its dictionary every single year. Doesn't that tell you something?

      When you hire a writer, you're hiring someone who is writing words that will be portrayed as your own writing to your clientele. Your customers don't care who wrote it, and they're often not even going to consider the fact that you didn't write the content yourself. If your sites and advertisements are full of badly-constructed sentences and typos, guess who is losing business?

      Hint: Not the writer. You've already paid him. You're the one who is not getting paid because they customers won't trust you.

      The next time you go looking for someone to represent your business through a wonderfully written piece of content, remember that you get what you pay for, and you need to have really high standards. If you don't care how your business looks to your customer, hire the guy who is charging $0.99 for 500 words.

      Don't be surprised when you're not making any sales, though.

      -- j
      Sorry that you had such an awful experience. That guy should be named and shamed for the terrible "service" he provided you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mac Wheeler
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      people who are NOT involved in IM understand what copy & content are worth.
      Perfect appraisal J, and the reason I don't run a WSO or offer my services to warriors directly. I just don't need the headache of dealing with prospective clients who don't have the money to pay.

      I know this does not cover all warriors, but just look at the sheer volume of posters asking where can I find the cheapest articles? Which sites are best for cheap articles? Or something similar. Funny thing is, they invariably end up posting a few weeks later about the bad experience that had at site XYZ when they employed a 1 cent per word writer.
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      FREELANCE WRITING OPPORTUNITIES - GET THEM NOW!
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  • Profile picture of the author Riter Ric
    Some people (should I say many?), like to think of writers as slaves and so the bad rates.
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    Ghost Writer
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    C'mon Jason, you know better than that. The sales copy on that page alone screams don't buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author HostWind
    Woh, that is some quality content! For $100 and all articles, I still wouldnt expect it to be that bad. All in all, I think you got some cheap laughs and brightened a few peoples' day.
    Isnt that worth $14?
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  • Profile picture of the author YoungAndOpulent
    Banned
    You didn't know? That's how a lot of "talent" markets are nowadays. When I was doing art for a living, for example, you'd be surprised how much people demanded and little they were offering to pay you to meet their huge demands. It seems that people just don't respect what we do. That goes for artists, writers...practically anyone in the service industry. People love what we do, but they don't see what we do as work. They see it as some kind of hobby. Therefore, they undervalue us like crazy.
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  • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
    That's really pathetic. I used to feel I wasn't good enough(lack of confidence I guess) to start an article writing business.

    Considering that I am a Nigerian, I just felt am not good enough to write the kind of articles that people would want to read. After I saw those samples up there, I felt I have what it takes to write a piece and a good one at that. But one thing I may need though, is to read some books written by top players in the article writing niche. This will go a long way to help me know how to structure article to make it an interesting read. Can someone tell me why Alexa Smith hasn't written any ebook for this purpose?

    I did find one at the war room but it was for writing reviews(quite a good one) and I would recommend it to anyone. What I need is for plain article--educative, entertaining and informative. The war room is really lacking this kind of ebooks and I don't know why.

    Any resources in this regard will be appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author masterpeez4py
    John, I love your rawness when article writing is being discussed--the naked truth.

    You and some other warriors have been a great inspiration to many.

    Specifically, I would love to read any ebook from Alexa Smith, especially if has to do with syndication.

    John, is there a way by which I could contact you if I wanted you to take a look at samples of my articles?

    Thank you.
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  • Great thread! Good to see so many others in the same boat as me. Some of the offers described are just jaw-dropping. Don't know if I should laugh or cry. Personally I would stay clear from anything (wouldn't even call it an offer) that pays less than $15/hour. Again, encouraging to see I'm not the only one frustrated by crappy offers.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
    Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    Searching through the sea of poorly paid writing jobs at oDesk in the hopes of fining a decent one just gets to me sometimes.
    Then stop!

    As the poster a few posts above says, start marketing yourself. It's the only skill you really need to be successful as an online writer. OK, a little bit of writing skill is useful too, but knowing how to market yourself is the real key to it all.

    John.
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  • Profile picture of the author omega_one
    I am not an article writer myself, but I do pretty well as a copywriter / marketing consultant. In my conversation and / or presentation, I sometimes offer to recommend some sources of cheaper service to potential clients who don't care about quality.

    It goes something like this;
    If at this stage you cannot justify the investment for quality work, I can recommend sources for cheap service. WARNING:You do get what you pay for.

    It does several things,
    1- It's take away selling.
    2- It sets me apart from the cheap, low quality services.
    3- It sets the stage for higher rates, at this point, people are expecting to pay more for quality.
    4- It weeds out the time wasters who want something for nothing, or the ones that want big value for little investment.


    Note: Not a single person asked me for the cheap sources, the ones looking for that kind of service just go away.
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  • Profile picture of the author GEORGIADES
    It's a shame that great writers have to put up with this nonsense.

    I say great writers because that's what I look for, someone who will write wonderful content with obvious enthusiasm, passion and knowledge for the subject. Although price has to be looked at, my thought process is... can I afford this person, rather than how much can I get out of this person on the cheap.

    After all, good writers will more than likely have a demanding schedule, they will hardly go out of their way for me in the future if I don't value their work and more importantly, them as a person which is what it really equates to if you down value someones work.
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  • Profile picture of the author OutsourceFactor
    For most cases, people who are posting $2/article jobs get exactly what they paid for. They get a 500 word article that lacks pizzaz and creativity (sometimes even originality).

    Warriors for hire and what Robert M Gouge suggested are good places to build your reputation on. In oDesk, you would get more than $2 but you'd have to convince clients that your writing is worth it. Going into different places (like warriors for hire) may be difficult to get solid traction at first but isn't it worth it in the long run?
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    I have saved this thread in my bookmarks so I can have a laugh when I need it. Being a writer I see so many clients who only want to pay $1 or $2 and expect the earth so I know where you are coming from.
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    Cheers, Laurence. Writer/Editor/Proofreader.
    Website / Blog for more info.

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  • Profile picture of the author wilhb81
    "To illustrate my point check this one out: https://www.odesk.com/jobs/Per-000-W...tot=4011&pos=0

    "Must Speak perfect English"
    "1 Deadline missed and you are fired"
    "Must be able to write 10 Articles Per Day"(@1000w each - OMG is this guy crazy)

    All this for the price of:

    "$1 for a 1000 word article"

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!"

    Wow, this is purely B*lls**t for sure. If you're lucky enough, maybe you'll pickup a dollar, when you're walking out the street lol
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Martin Pupke View Post

    People say they want creative, engaging, superstar writers that can produce content fast. But then say that they are only willing to part with a measly $2 in exchange for all that.
    "Why do you keep using these words? I do not think they mean what you think they mean."
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author LocoDice
    Having spent time living and working with outsourced workers in countries where wages are lower than the US, for instance, I keep remembering how far something like $5 an hour can go. It is decent money in some parts of the world.

    I do think if you do your research you can find 'good enough' skills. But that requires so much work in itself that unless you have the economies of scale to pull it off (in other words, a constant stream of work) - the time required to find and keep managing the resources isn't worth it.
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    codefixit.com - Help with your HTML, Wordpress and Web Hosting problems - No fix, no fee.
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