No real suggestions to get around the "eBay screw"... all I can do is wish you well on your auction.

Maybe someone here will buy it from you... there are lots of folks here that mentioned getting their hands on it when it launches again... you might wanna wait a week or so before you put it up on eBay.

Hi Terri

You may be better asking your question on the ebay forums. I'd also check the TOS of reselling the product from the original vendor as well

Good luck
Kim

I'd highly suggest checking out this guys site. I have purchased several of his products and they are top notch. His website is full of free information.

Free Articles and Information for eBay and Home Internet Sellers

If it is a physical product and not a download, then it should be fine, however it depends on the actual product's TOS whether or not you are allowed to sell it.

As far as the package itself, it's definitely a physical product. I've only watched the first DVD and read the four day booklet, so everything is in excellent shape.

Where would I find the TOS for the product? Is it in the packaging itself or do I have to contact their support team?

Terrie,

Advertise it here:

Warrior Forum Classified Ads

You're FAR more likely to get your asking price.

Steve

Before putting a high-ticket item on ebay, I would sell some lower-priced items first, both to learn how it works and to build up some feedback. If your feedback is zero and you're selling $1000+ item, many people won't buy since that looks suspicious.

Also try bidding on and buying some low-priced items.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.

To put it on Warrior Forum Classified Ads is $20. Is there a fee once it is sold as well?

You've pretty much already "listed" it for sale on the WF just by making this post. Why not just give it a week and see if anybody nibbles on this thread?

Hi Terrie:

I hope you had a great weekend. If possible before you make the decision to sell the item would it be worth trying to get through another segment or two (if not more)? There could be information that you get to early on in the course that may be useful at a later date when the time allows.

As for the selling of the item. Decide what the lowest price including shipping, insurance, and postage you would be content with. Make sure only you know the answer. To protect yourself since it is a one of a kind item the priority mail will give you best service, insurance protects you from it being lost in the post office, and delivery confirmation gives you proof the customer received it. Have the outside of the shipping envelope marked "Fragile." Is it possible that the Warrior Forum would be a better road to travel than EBAY?

You will have buyers since there was a demand for the product!

Good luck.

Why don't you just send it back for a refund?

The reselling we're talking about here isn't like having PLR or
MRR... she purchased a physical product.. no different than a
car or color TV. She's now done with it. She has every right
to sell that physical product.

Tsnyder

I would think your best approach is to take Kern up on his refund offer. Using eBay is not that difficult and you have a physical product so you can sell it, BUT as some have pointed out you may take a big hit on what you will get for it.

DonDavis had a good suggestion. You have already made known your desire to sell it in this thread. Wait a few days and see if you get some offers or a PM.

Good luck.

I do not have any complaints about the product, so I don't feel good about returning it because my situation has changed. A few people have PM'd me with questions, so I'm going to wait and see how that turns out before I do anything. Unless I hear otherwise, I am going with "It's a physical product and I can sell it if I want."

Thank you so much for your replies!

If she couldn't afford it, she shouldn't of bought it.

Simple as that.

If she felt it wasn't worth the price, then by all means refund it.

But that is not her complaint.

She is a responsible buyer, and owns up to her purchase unlike many of the people around here.

And Nathan to be honest, I've been seeing you bad mouth Frank quite a bit here in the forum and I'm really hesitant to offer you any coaching or consulting until after the refund period is over as I'm worried you may just be another serial refunder as well.

I hope I'm wrong.

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I don't know how Frank's refund policy is worded. It may be that it is entirely ethical, and okay with Frank, if someone asks for a refund simply because they have changed their mind, or their situations have changed.

That doesn't mean that the OP can't hold herself to a higher standard. She should be applauded for her willingness to follow her own ideals, regardless of the situation she is in.

Warm Regards,
Kevin

[DELETED]

I'm sorry guys--I didn't mean to kick up such a fuss!

So, here is another part of the equation. I purchased Frank's package in part because of the bonus that one of the gurus was giving. The way the bonus was set up, I was pretty sure that I would be able to make enough money to recoup my costs pretty quickly. Several days later I received an email from that person saying that he had decided "to replace the original bonus with something better."

I am still relatively new at IM, so I wasn't really in a position to judge if his new bonus was better or not, but it is not what I originally thought I was getting. He did not ask if I preferred the second choice, but rather told me that was what he was doing.

I also do not feel good about returning Frank's product because I don't think it's fair to the guru for losing out on his commission. He did provide a good bonus, even though it wasn't the original. I am not complaining about the bonus--I just expected that things would work out differently than they have.

This additional factor is not at all Frank's fault, so he shouldn't have to bear the burden of my asking for a refund for what I think is actually a good product.

Actually, that brings up another matter--what to do about the bonus if I actually do sell the product. Hmmm, I don't have any rich uncles that could just die and leave me some money.

I'm starting to feel very silly about this thread!

Having a no questions asked guarantee, is a huge selling point. So you have to pay the consequences when giving such a guarantee. If you have A Qualtiy product, then you'll never be hurt by such a guarantee. - Which is why Frank does so well with it.

However, Frank banks on the fact that most people that buy his product are ethical people, and carry out their business in an ethical way. Coming into a public forum and telling people they should get a refund in an un-ethical manner kind of throws off the averages a bit, and could work to hurt Frank's good faith offer.

Just my $.02

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Obviously whether or not this is ethical can vary depending on your own ethics. But I guarantee that these no questions asked offers bank on the fact that most people will not refund an item simply because they later find out that they can't afford it, or have no time for it - which is what the OP says in her original post (no mention of a house burning down - but that shouldn't even matter).

I would advise you to contact Frank Kern directly. Explain to him your situation. Ask him what he would do if he were in your shoes...

This reminds me of the kid that traded his cow for the magic beans.

You may get out of your situation by using the magic beans. Don't sell the golden goose on ebay for the price of beans.

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[DELETED]

The lady needs to make her own mind up about whether to seek a refund or not.

Kern did promise one for any reason at all if you wanted one.

I wonder how many extra sales he got because of this excellent guarantee? Probably an extra 25% maybe. Especially when it is a high ticket item.

What if he had said in his video:

"You only get your money back if you try it and if it doesn't work. I won't give you a refund if you don't have the time to do it, or if you run into financial difficulty perhaps because of the credit crunch. That's your problem not mine. So give me some m*ther f**king m*ney and don't ask me for a bleep bleep refund".

No, he said if you want your money back for ANY reason then you can have it.

Under the circumstances it appears she needs the money more than Kern right now.

If you live by the sword you die by the sword.

Jason,
For what it's worth, I'd consider purchasing Terri's copy of Mass Control 2 from her for full price if there was a way I could get the bonus you offered for folks that purchased through your link.

Respectfully,
Tim

I have to say, I follow both Frank and Jason in their marketing ( free video's, ect... ) and I wanted very much to buy that info at the time and simply was not able to do so ...I was tempted to " charge it " but was headed to Europe with my wife so she could have cancer treatments in Switzerland.....never know what you need $$$ till done.


I am in total agreement about not simply asking for a refund. I have a brick and morter business and offer refunds if unsatisfied with services and have never had one. To think that someone would simply ask for one due to changes beyond seller control troubles me. I would like to see research on what % of refunds are actually for good reasons and those that are not.

I came here to learn and am glad to see that some things, I already know and do not need to be taught.

Be well all and have a great night !

Michael

She purchased Mass Control when it launched, so lets give her the benefit of the doubt and say she looked it over.. the course IS expensive and if she needs the money in case of emergency, then she should be able to return it with no problem. There is nothing we can say here that will change her mind, I am sure MC course has enough information to get started with internet marketing.

Would anyone like a hug?

Well, I suppose we can all learn something every day. Even from a thread such as this.

Now it needs to have a bit of cool water poured onto it. Glug, glug, glug.

SSSSSsssssssssss..ssss....ss...s... (The sound of steam coming off - I'm not quite sure of the spelling )

Ahhhhhh. That's better. The weather sure has been lovely in these parts today...

When you offer a crazy guarantee, your intention is to convert people who would otherwise have decided no. So it's the seller's fault if someone misses out on the last copy, not the fault of someone who hype-purchased.

As for ethical or unethical - that shouldn't even be up for debate. When the guarantee states that you can return it for absolutely any reason, how can this situation be unethical? It can't.

Unethical would be dishonestly refunding on a "conditional" guarantee.

Davebo and Magic Johnson, from reading your posts in this thread it is obvious that both of you seem to have a personal problem with Jason Moffat.

According to the rules of this forum, if you have a problem with another member, it's between you and that member. Take it outside.

So why are you wasting your time blowing hot air in here?

You both come across as major jerks, and unproven jerks at that. I have known about Jason (and Frank) for several years. He has proven himself as a contributing member of this forum and every product I have purchased from him has exceeded my expectations.

Can I say the same for either of you? NO! I've never even heard of either of you! I have never bought any of your products (assuming you guys actually have your own products...) and I certainly will NOT purchase nor recommend anything from either of you after reading the nasty and mean-spirited comments the two of you have posted in this thread!

Both Jason and Frank know what they are doing. Do you? Doesn't look like it!

Both of you should step away from the keyboard and think about what you are doing to your future reputation on this forum. You've already lost one potential REPEAT customer (the most valuable type) and every time you berate someone here with a nasty name, you risk losing yet another. And unless you go back and change every one of your posts, everyone else who comes here will read what you wrote! (And that won't even do the trick, because a lot of your posts were quoted in posts by others, so you can't even delete those!)

Until you think about that, go ahead and keep trying to impress us with your name calling. After all, it's not my business you are destroying...

Terri, I hope you were able to sell your copy of MC 2.0 to another Warrior or better yet, put it to good use and make a heck of a lot more money with it than your investment.

And don't you worry about causing such a stir. It wasn't anything you did. The fault lies with the jerks who took over this thread and decided to make things personal. That happens here sometimes, unfortunately.

Magic Johnson, if you are referring to me when you mention "Like I care about this members poping up suddenly, they could as well get cut a check to defend. Moffatimus... (but that's just pure speculations) "

I can answer your question: No, I receive nothing in the way of compensation in any form from either Mr. Moffat nor Mr. Kern for mentioning them in my posts.

I just think the posts in this thread from yourself and davebo have exceeded the limits of civility and are quite rude and uncalled for.

Becoming a respected Warrior Member takes time and effort. Name calling is easy. Respect must be earned.

I think Magic Johnson needs to take another Percoset. ( He mentioned he was in a ton of pain )

Having had Reconstructive ACL Surgery on Feb 3rd, I know from personal
experience that when you're in lots of pain, you find yourself blurting out
cuss words and just not making much sense.

But what also could happen is you take 1 Percoset too many and the same
thing ends up happening!!!

Maybe that's what happened to him.

He's either in tons of pain or he's all doped up on his painkillers

Quick question here: What is the issue with asking for a refund for a product that touts an iron-clad, no questions asked money-back guarantee? I presume the subtext is that some purchasers will have 1) made the decision to purchase knowing they could refund if they found the product did not suit their situation or circumstance, and 2) um, they found the product did not suit their situation or circumstance.

Presumably the guarantee was given not so much because the vendor enjoys giving refunds so much as he/she loves making sales ... and knows that the guarantee will increase those sales.

While personal responsibility on the part of the customer is important, so is the responsibility of a vendor to honor -- even cheerfully -- that "iron-clad" guarantee. No?

Just asking.

Note: edited.

sevenish,

I think the beef started when people starting discussing morality and ethics of
asking for refunds vs. not asking for refunds.

Although the OP said she had no intentions of asking for a refund.

But whatever, it got entertaining nonetheless

Sheesh, talk about your ordinary every day thread taking a bunch of twists and turns.

First, a rock solid guarantee doesn't need an excuse, if this is what the OP desires. So back off. She already said she wasn't comfortable with a refund, the question was how to sell it.

Second, if a physical product is purchased, it belongs to the purchaser. They may do with it what they wish, within the bounds of the law & the copyright. So, yes, she may sell it on the secondary market.

Third, I would let this thread age a day or two and see what kind of offers the original poster gets for her course. It was sold out, and is currently unavailable. It is likely that she can recoup all of her cost with the right offers in PM's.

Fourth, Ebay isn't the place for you to try to sell this course, for two reasons:

Many of the IM/Frank products there are bootlegs, selling for much less money than this course. That means that the market is willing to pay a couple of hundred dollars for a 'deal' in bootlegs but you probably won't get anywhere near your costs.

In addition, a big sale or product like this for big money should not be one of the first things you list on Ebay--it has it's own learning curve, and it is pretty steep when it's a big price tag that matters. If you are interested in ebay for the future, start small and slow an work your way up to this.

Hope this clarifies some of it.

Thanks guys, this is the funniest thread I've seen in ages.

Who needs TV?

This thread has calmed down a bit now, but I'm still waiting to see how it ends. There's bound to be a twist.

It's a cliffhanger that's what it is.

I wonder what the scriptwriters will come up with in the final episode. It's the last one in the series so it's bound to still end up as another cliffhanger.

Everyone is off licking their wounds and regrouping, ready for the final battle.

(Sorry - just been watching an episode of 24).

Nathan,

I agree with you 100%. You see... I understand both sides of the argument on this one. I'm obviously more in favor of how I would probably do things if I was her.

I think that there is a unique, and unexplainable dynamic in this situation--which is the reason why I favor some of the points made, against requesting a refund, in this thread.

Admittedly, I've refunded many different items in the past--without any qualms--and will most likely do so in the future.

But, one thing that I have never done is return a product that I realized--after using it--didn't fit in to my budget. And if I have, I will try my best to never do it again.

ExRat, Richard and Marc,

This thread has suddenly become far too sensible now that you guys have appeared.

Cheers.

The point was NOT that she wanted to return the product - The point was that she wanted to do the respectable thing - and others came on board and tried to talk her into refunding. She did NOT want to refund. If others want to be irresponsible w/ their money and start refunding items when they get in a pinch, then fine. But I wouldn't come to public forums and try to talk others into joining in on your irresponsible behavior. People do read these posts you know?

[DELETED]

I love this forum!!!

I don't take offense at what's being said. I went out on a limb purchasing the product. I thought that I would be able to pay for it with what was promised in the original bonus, but that changed. Things happen, so I just had to figure out how to deal with it, which is why I asked my original question.

I looked up what "OP" means so I could figure out what everyone was calling me--finally found it on Urban Dictionary. I was afraid of the repercussions if I asked here! Note to newbies: OP = Original Poster. I am not dumb, just not yet fully educated in Internet Marketing. I am very willing and able to learn, which is why I bought MC2.

I don't mind asking for a refund if the purchase doesn't meet my needs. I have only asked for two. One was for a program that was not able to do what it said it would, and the other for an online program that promised to deliver certain things but once I got in, I found I knew as much than the person doing the program. Incidentally, I still have not received either refund and I haven't made a stink about it to them. My web host owner tells me I'm just too nice. All of my sites went down last weekend and I didn't call him until Monday morning because I didn't want to interrupt his weekend.

I know I'm weird--and I'm okay with that. If I get too much change I go back and give it to the cashier. A couple of times I've gotten to the car and found things I forgot under the shopping cart--I bring them back into the store to pay for them. I am certainly not perfect, but I believe in being honest. I love to help people and if I didn't need money to live, I would be happy doing things for free. I already do too much of that--I hate to ask people for money! I know, not the makings of a good businessperson.

I have started going through the course. I do not have a list yet to do the Four Day Cash Machine. I do recognize what people are doing when they send me "Thank You" emails now. Core Influence is an awesome video and has helped me to think of things differently already. The other items are great and I have no doubt they will work, but they take time. I have to make my second installment payment to Frank, and I don't have it right now. I've got nine children, four of whom still live at home, and almost four grandchildren. My husband was let go from his job. We've been dealing with a very expensive, cross-country, year-long court battle with my ex-husband. We all have our sob stories--they are situations to deal with, not to be used as excuses. I am fortunate to do virtual assistant website work for a great online janitorial business, but I do want to be able to learn IM so that I can be debt-free and have time to do the things I want to in life. I am a big genealogist--I want to go to Norway and Sweden one day to meet my relatives who live there. See, I told you I was weird--I don't dream of going to Hawaii or surfing in California--I dream of dead people and their kinfolk!

I have been working on things--I have some mini-niche type sites set up. I am learning to drive traffic and build lists. Either I am doing it wrong or it just takes time! . I have also been working on a PHP Link Directory site for my county--started from scratch, not knowing anything. I have a long way to go, but this is what I have so far: http://www.sherburnearea.com. I don't think it's bad for my first attempt. I planned to do this before I ever heard of the "Offline Goldmine" niche. I am teaching my 13- and 15-year old children how to do things that can help. I just received an email from a warrior is has a Filipino assistant I can share. My prospects are very bright and when I have questions, someone here on the forum is able to answer them. That's very cool!

I do want to have a good reputation. I'm not really worried about being put on the blacklist and "not being part of the club." I figured it would be a long time before any gurus would even know who I was. I'm certainly not trying to suck up to them and look good. I've read enough times here on the forum that it takes a long time to build up a good reputation and a short time to destroy it. I think we've seen examples of that just in this thread. I don't know the people here well enough to know who is connected to whom, or is famous, or is a jerk. I see names and read responses without any preconceived notions. I do know that a lot of people have taken time to give answers to my question and I appreciate that.

I knew when I bought my program that I was taking a risk. That was my choice. After reading all of the responses here, I probably could ask for a refund, but I still don't feel like that's the answer. I wish I had a really good WSO that I could offer and just earn the money I need right now. I appreciate Jason's offer of the bonuses, to me and to TimG--they do look very good. And I appreciate the offers to buy the program from me. I am going to let things settle down a bit and then decide what to do.

Thanks again to all, and I'll let you know when my full memoir is out! Hey, would that be a good WSO?!

Terrie

P.S. Since I unexpectedly have obtained the attention of the forum, any gurus may feel free to PM me and say Hi!

A little tip. Try reading threads before posting...

:rolleyes:

Steve

SMTMFRD as Kern would say.

(Send Me The Mother F***** Refund Dude)

I think part of the problem does lie with the OP. It seems she has not herself made a decision and is unsure what to do. She herself has admitted to being a bit of a newbie and perhaps has been a bit gullible, brought on by the promise of wealth, which was nurtured via the Kern product launch process. But then again newbies as well as more experienced IMers get sent the same emails and videos.

So Kern himself has evoked this product desire in her and if the motivation has fallen after the sale then such is life. How often does this happen? Like every fricking day a thousand times, all over the world.

I say again, as Kern has offered a hassle free refund for any reason then he will factually have earned more sales because of it. If a percentage end up refunding then that is all factored in anyway.

Now this isn't me advocating a refund in the lady's case.

However, if the lady doesn't want to use the materials or can't use the materials to make herself more money for whatever reason, then she should do what Kern himself suggested and return it for a refund.

It's no good feeling great with oneself and taking the high ground about offering clients a full refund and reaping the benefits of more sales because of this, and then getting upset if someone does take the person up on the refund offer.

1. In DOZENS of threads I've seen in my time on the WF, when a seller starts complaining about some off-the-wall refund request, the overwhelming response is, "just refund and move on - it's a cost of doing business." Why all the hate when looking at the other side?

2. Yes, the OP has ethics. I'd guess that for every person on one fringe or the other throwing insults back and forth at the drop of the hat, there are 50 in the middle who always try to do the right thing - regardless of the personal cost. She should be recognized for being "one of the good guys."

3. I suspect that Jason has a "Frank Kern" Google alert (just commenting on the pattern, not judging). Maybe one for "Jason Moffatt," too. I've just triggered both of them. =D

This is a fascinating debate, not just because of the subject matter (which seems to vary post by post) but also from an observational standpoint - it's like watching a car crash or a fight between a pack of dogs - I believe someone once called it the rubberneck effect, but I forget who.

Is someone able to point me to the website of The International Federation of Internet Marketers so I can look up the 'definition' of Internet Marketing Ethics? I've been looking but I can't seem to find it.

And that's the problem, this argument is about a purely subjective set of guidelines that aren't written down and exist as values and beliefs as unique as the head they reside in.

Whether or not the OP should/could request a refund is not the point. As far as I can recall, no-one has suggested that this is not an option, except for the OP. She doesn't want to because that's how she feels. There's absolutely no arguing with how the lady feels. It would appear that her values are telling her not to return it.

Now, if your values don't agree with her - so what?

Argue all you like, ain't going to make a jot of difference.

Peter

[DELETED]

Let's be honest here. Wasting thirty minutes reading this
thread when I know better, makes ME the biggest douchebag.

Although, that dude who called that other dude a douchebag,
might be a bigger one. That was a pretty douchebag thing to
do.

Douchebagfully yours,
Douchbag

It's not mofit, it's Moffatt.

[DELETED]

Clearly, next time Frank Kern plans a product launch, we will all have to adopt the crash position and wear aluminum headgear, so he cannot read our minds.

Next, disconnect your PC - not just from the internet- safer to unplug it completely.

Then, change your name and, if asked, deny having ever heard of the internet.

Go live in a tent village with all the other refugees and only venture out when you get the all-clear.

Then, when you have finally reconnected to the internet, email Frank Kern and ask for a refund, just in case.

Isn't it time to put this one to bed?

Granted, some people want to keep the thread going, just to maintain it and provoke (non) argument.

Every additional post gives those people something to feed off, it adds fuel to the non-argument.

From a marketing (and pretty much every other) perspective, this subject is covered, every which way.

For some time now, it's just been yada-yada-yada.

Lets move on, people.



And that means YOU!

*sigh*

Guess some people just like to argue.

Oh hey Nathan it's really easy.

Just move away from the thread...

Nothing to see here.....

Wow... now my head hurts.

Interesting. That's all I'll say.

Someone laugh at my new Avatar, you heartless douchebags!







[EDIT]: The hilarity had to end. :rolleyes:
Avatar back to normal.

OH, JOHN!!! I liked your other avatar better...Man, what a douche bag!

And I can't believe this thread is into the sixth page!!! :rolleyes:

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I'm with you Loz. There is nothing unethical about asking for a refund when your circumstances change or the hype surrounding the launch doesn't live up to billing. Often the case. In the case of MC it is really more geared toward people who have a product up and running and need the tutoring to move to the next level. You could have been enticed into buying the product, looked it over and said whoooooo this is beyond me at this time. Fair enough, Frank plainly states refunds can be had for the asking for any reason, no questions asked. What the hell is the big deal here? It is no way unethical to do that. If you constantly order products, take the meat and return them - that's unethical. I don't think the OP had that in mind. She has a conscience but should not worry about asking for what is due her. Full stop.

PS - surely Frank Kern has built into his business plan a certain % of returns. We know he won't lose money with a few returns. Now if you want to talk about the Arbitrage Conspiracy......couldn't refund that turkey fast enough. Lousy product, lousy presentation, big hype from guruland.....REFUND.

Why not sell here?

For me, MC was my eye opener and made me go deeper in to finding meaning of life. yes, his marketing strategies are great but i liked learning his criteria/belief, thinking process and therapy stuff more. haha.. yes i'm into these stuff.

OK this post has now grown upto 6 pages long without a conclusion.
It's time for us to stop... no more complaining or whining...
It's fun to argue, but it brings nothing but anger and stress.

Be a bigger person and undersand the others with love.
I think Frank already understood the concept of being bigger person after listening to what he has to say. let's keep encouraging and helping others which is ultimately better.

Dan

Wow. This thread is really getting out there. How entertaining!

If I buy a product that comes with a no-conditions 100% money-back guarantee, I will seek a refund if I need to and I won't feel bad about, regardless if it is from an affiliate or not. That's part of doing business.

I have purchased many different products, a lot of them from people on the Warrior Forum.

I have occasionally requested a refund. (Sure, I'll admit it.)

Many of those marketers honored their refund policy and gave me a refund without a hassle...

While some of them (you know who you are) made me jump through hoops, trying to weasel out on refunding my money. It took me four months to finally get a refund from one person on this forum who I will not mention here (count your lucky stars, you rat!) And all that over $17!

Guess who I never buy from again?

But guess who I DO buy from again? That's right, the people who treated me right and came through.

My advice to marketers would be to treat the customer with respect and abide by your refund policies, no matter what. Most are not serial refunders and if you treat them right you'll get their business again in the future and make even more.

If you can't handle giving someone a refund, you don't belong in business.

Serial refunders? They'll always be there and there are ways to deal with them, so don't worry about that.

It's too bad Terri felt the way she did, but I am glad she came here and asked our opinions first because she would've lost her hat on eBay.

Good going, Terri.

Um, wouldn't asking for a partial refund be a bit like the head of AIG telling Congress he'll ask those who received bonuses in excess of $100,000 to return half of their bonus?

(That's actually what he said, just a couple hours ago!)

What's wrong with them returning the entire bonus, or asking for a complete refund?

Gary, I appreciate your questions, and your point.

Have I ever bought a product and asked for a refund due to financial difficulties? Honestly? No. The products I buy are bought because I wanted them and could afford them without taking food off the table. But I'm sure you can understand that there are times when life rises up and smacks you when you least expect it, and can least afford, it, such as right after spending two grand on a fantastic product.

Have I refunded "many" products? That can be understood in two ways.

I sell my own products, and I have never been asked for a refund, so have never made a refund to anyone. (My products are just that darned good, I guess!)

If you meant have I asked for refunds a lot? I don't believe so when compared to the number of products I have purchased. I believe the products I requested a refund on are approximately 3%-5% of the total that I have purchased. Some were rife with typos (so many it was difficult to understand what they were trying to get across!), a few were almost preposterous in what they proposed I do (bordering on scamming people, black hat, etc.) while a couple were not even delivered. (One of them was the $17 product mentioned earlier.)

I assure you, if someone (and I don't care who) buys one of my products and wants a refund (within the rules set forth, such as requesting it within the refund period, returning the product if that was part of the refund stated, etc.) I don't care why they want a refund. Buyers remorse? Fine! I don't care! They will get it, and promptly. I'll even email them, thanking them for asking for a refund, and meaning it!

The point is, give me a bunch of guff about returning my money when I have done nothing wrong, I will definitely not buy from you ever again. I will unsubscribe from anything to do with you. (A well-known internet marketer, an Irishman in Southern Florida, knows that full well. I even unsubscribe from other guru's when they partner with him, that's how serious I am.)

But make it easy for me to get my money back, long as I follow the refund requirements you set, and I will have no problem considering products from you in the future! I honestly enjoy doing business with people that don't tick me off. Imagine that.

No questions asked means exactly that, doesn't it? If it's good for a year after you receive it, you should be able to request a refund 364 days later and get it without any trouble at all, shouldn't you?

To be honest, I sometimes set a time limit for refunds, such as 30 days, 62 days, whatever, but I won't sit down and look up the date you purchased, and count the days to make sure you are requesting a refund in time! I'll just give your money back to you and say thanks for asking for a refund, I'm happy to give your money back!

Why would that make me happy? Because if you are happy, you'll most likely buy from me again later and I will make a lot more money down the line!

First time buyers are the hardest and most costly to get. Repeat buyers are the most valuable and will put a lot more money in your pocket.

If you can't understand that, I'm sorry, I don't know what else to tell you.

As I said before, there will always be serial refunders and they can be dealt with, such as blocking them from buying again, but I don't worry about them.

I'd much prefer to keep creating and selling new products and making even more money from people who are pleased with their past dealings with me and who look forward to receiving email marketing from me...

My good reputation is a hell of a lot more important to me than a few bucks.

Star69 - I agree w/ you that a no questions asked guarantee should be honored without hassle. The point of this whole thread however was that a person came here w/ out the intention of recieving a refund. Then several came along trying to talk her into getting a refund. She clearly stated that it was about finances - not lack of quality in the product. - Of course she could have asked for a refund, and I'm sure would have received it. That's not the point. The point is personal responsibility.

I don't care how bad my personal financial situation becomes - I will never refund a quality product, after I've already paid for it. There are many people out there like me, and that's what makes the refund policy possible.

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Sometimes I wish I had a big ol' NUKE button so I could vaporize threads that are way past their sell-by date.

I know, let's play a game.

Let's all pretend that this thread no longer exists.

Anyone who posts to this thread after this instant will fall into a big black hole which has been reserved by the BIG CREATOR OF EVERYTHING for just such an occasion.


WARNING: Do not be tempted to post anymore to this thread; be it through envy, greed, malice or low humor.

The Creator will see what you have done, as will all mortal beings, and you will be condemned- forever- your soul stained for generations to come.

Do you really want that?

Think of your children, dammit.

(Without getting into whether she should have refunded or not, or whether one should refund or not for whatever reason, or personal responsibility or not bla bla bla)

The fact remain that it is well advocated by many top IM'ers that if they are not getting a fairly high refund rate (approximately 10% - from memory Carlton says 14%) then they are not pushing the envelope enough.

Davebo actually makes some sense in his calculations regarding refunds and the seller still making money. This works because of the huge margins on these types of products.

Perhaps $10 cost per set is a bit on the low side, especially when you have fancy packaging and design costs, but surely $50 covers the costs.

I don't know whether guru's such as Kern in these big launches pay out the full commission straight away or wait a while until all monthly payments are in or only pay out commissions after a certain period of time.

I can't see Kern or anyone else paying out $1,000 commission straight away and then having to give a customer back $2,000 for refunding which would leave Kern & Co $1,000 out of pocket. That wouldn't make sound business sense.

Anyway, I guess my point is that whether it is right or wrong, products do get hyped and people do sometimes end up "convincing themselves" to buy something and can suffer buyers remorse.

Many business models, including many guru launches expect this.

Jason moffat you are one of franks personal friends, i've seen you with him

This discussion has gone WAY TOO LONG.

While I did not have the time to read it all, & I am certainly BREAKING my own set limitations (That I won't speak up in the main forum before I am a millionaire)... And even more certainly I have no right to decide on behalf of OP, I do believe Mass Control Stuff is great.

This is what I am saying from a customers' point of view. Pure and Simple. Yes, I've had a few email converations with Jason (Because I bought through his link)... I do not have any sort of personal reloationship either with Jason or Frank (yet).

BUT... Here's the scoop... It's one course that is NOT suited to the newbies (& I am certainly nowhere as great a marketer s compared to Frank so I might be wrong in all probability), I believe it was not really 'THAT' apparent from the marketing of the product.

Again its some of the BEST marketing info I have ever seen and I am sure it is exactly what I needed at that time to step up my business, I am sure this doesn't help someone like the OP who is admitttedly a newbie with no list, no product and no experience. Granted you are leveraging on Frank's experiments and experiences with the product, but most certainly you are not getting access to his list or products for that matter, right?

Then, when it comes to MAN UP (or woman up) and take responsibility for your decision... Well the thing is the OP is doing exactly that, just that she is a little confused as to what to do. I've seen Jason offering coaching bonus to someone who appears to be interested... and that is a pretty great solution IMO... In fact so great that Something you WILL like... I am not that bad... My customers do like me 92% of the times... Rest 8% get a refund.

Now... Regarding the refund issue... well that really is not a question here but in general scheme of things I do believe that if its a question of keeping expensive info that you can not really immidiately use or feed your family better... I'd always go for the second option... Simply because that is the first priority of any parent... Human or animal! PERIOD. If you have no way to feed your family comfortably, you have no right to spend the money reserved for THEIR food on hope or dreams or even something more tangible and practical like your own clothes or beers.

If you make that mistake, make up for it either by working overtime and getting the money for them or by reversing your decision and accpeting all consequences thereafter. Trust me... our family members are the people who we do it all for. No point in cheating them.

Besides... from an info product seller's point of view a refund should never be a problem in case the product can't really help the customer as they expected it to as long as the refund policy is clearly stated and refund is asked for within the refund period..

Anyways... The whole point here was I really appreciate Tim and Jason trying to help the lady and I would like to do whatever little I can. So if this deal goes through, please let me know.

In the end I read a few posts and I felt almost no one was wrong... Everyone has their own point ofviews which are created by the circumstances they are in and the experiences they've had in their life. The only thing that was wrong was heatedly abusing each other. PLEASE, grow out of your underwears... This is a business forum- Don't make it a KIDDO V/S KIDDO forum.

-Lakshay

P.S. PM me if someone buys it from the lady... I already have it so I can't really help. I'd like to thank the buyer... Just a small token of appreciation.

Lakshay,
Thanks brother...................I truly appreciate that gesture on your part. For now, I'm letting Terri decide how she wants to proceed based on one of her postings where she mentioned she was going to take a few days to think things over.

If she sells and I buy I'll definately take you up on your offer.

Respectfully,
Tim

What the heck - can't someone lock this thread?

what about the "stupidly simple cash cow" thread? That was quite long. Don't remember how many pages, but that was locked later on. Searched the forum, couldn't find the thread.

By the way, interesting thread! Took a long time to read though. Wanted to share my views and challenge a few presented here, but kind of tired from reading all these. Maybe later

Cheers

Tanvir

Thanks Ken. I thought so. When I searched, a whole bunch of thread came up, but not the original one. Just noticed that post is on the blog now.

great post dr. mani

hypothetically what if she contracted the swine flu but the strain she caught was actually worse than the regular flu unlike the existing swine flu - would she eligible for a refund?

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I know this a rather old post, but just wanted to say, that was a great post Dr Mani, will help a lot of eBayers on selling!