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Warriors I Need Your Help

by Steven Wagenheim
64 replies
No, I don't need money. Thank goodness for that. I'm grateful that I'm able
to do what I can for others now who do.

I need something more valuable to both of us than money.

Since I've been here, I've heard all kinds of things in regard to what people
want to learn in order to ultimately make a profit online.

Well, I'm trying to do something about this but I need your help because I
don't want to waste my time on things that nobody gives a rat's behind
about.

Makes sense?

So here is what I need.

I've already begun to put something together.

Here is what I have covered so far in painful detail.

Business Planning
Affiliate Marketing
Product Creation
Traffic Generation In General

I'm planning on then going into things like Joint Ventures, List Building and
Email Marketing

Again, all in painful detail. When I say painful, I mean nothing left out.
Too many guides have just bits and pieces and leave so much out that
they end up leaving YOU pulling your hair out of your head.

So here is where I need YOUR help.

In addition to what I have mentioned above, what else would you like me
to cover and in how much detail?

I don't care what it is or how long it takes me to put it together. Nothing
is off limits here. But I need to see where the greatest demand is.

Or have I already covered it?

For example, some folks have complained that nobody goes over things
like FTP and other technically related things.

But how many people REALLY need that stuff?

Don't most people know it or am I making assumptions?

That's why I need your help.

So please just tell me what you wish somebody would cover in detail,
other than what I already listed, and I'll do it...no matter how long it takes.

The floor is now open to requests.

** EDIT **

One thing I want to add. What items would you like to see videos on?
#warriors
  • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
    In my opinion, Steve, it's well-intended, but a biiig mistake. You wouldn't have been the first to have either thought of this, or attempted this.

    While "missing bits of information" certainly IS a problem and definitely CAN be frustrating, it's not the real problem, and never will be.

    If you were REALLY to pursue that angle EFFECTIVELY, you would want to ask people for SPECIFIC products or programs that they feel are lacking information and then write a "companion" product that fills in the details.

    But, by doing it the way you're doing it, it seems as if you're simply trying to reinvent the wheel...

    The real problem, which experience bears out over and over again, is not a lack of knowledge. It's a lack of will.

    And it's so deep and pervasive that even some of the most well-intended of us are in huge denial of it.

    So, if you really want to help people, here are 3 suggestions:

    1. Find a popular product and fill in the missing bits for THAT product alone so that people can achieve a result they set out to achieve with a product they've already been sold on; or,

    2. Write a product to help people find something about which they are PASSIONATE so they will have the will they currently lack in order to push through the hurdles; or,

    3. Offer a coaching program that helps people simply get a couple products retooled and onto a mini/member site and effectively promoting it because even the first part is more than most people here have ever done and, to get even that much under their belt would give them some much needed inspiration

    But to start some big compendium that aims to create a wheel that includes some previously missing "spokes" strikes me as trying to "push the river."

    I guarantee you will not get the desired result even if you are well-respected here. It'll just leave a whole new mass of people in the middle of the wilderness because their problem is not a "lack of knowledge"... it's a "lack of will" which includes a subset, "lack of focus."

    Let me know if you have any questions and, in any case, best wishes,
    Eric
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        I believe that a comprehensive product is going to be overwhelming to the average newbie. There is only so much new information that can be digested at once and a product this extensive would be like handing an infant an apple and expecting them not to choke.

        I also don't believe that it is possible to create a truly comprehensive guide that covers everything in one fell swoop. Too many things change day to day in the internet marketing arena. By the time the product is finished, some things would be close to obsolete while several new techniques have arisen.

        As to what you said about FTP and technical stuff, most of the novices have no clue to all that stuff. I'm not a newbie but there are tons of technical things that make me cringe. I do believe there are products out there that cover some of this stuff already, though, but I'm not sure how good they are.

        Tina G
        Steven,
        I would have to agree with Tina on this.. As someone that has built 10,000 of websites from scratch and dealt with thousands of clients over the years I must say that this would be information over-load..

        The only way effective to do this is by creating a product for each section such as affiliate markting, article marketing, blog setup, and etc.. I would also think many would not want to get a guide about affiliate marketing, joint ventures, blog setup, affiliate programs, article marketing, and etc when all they want is really article marketing.

        Also you must take into account technologies as new technologies are being created every single day. Current technologies are being changed or upgraded also. I trust when you say you painfully put your effort in but what happens when this tactic or that tactic becomes obsolete due to technologies changing ??

        Please do not take this post wrong, I think what you are doing takes a great deal of gutts. I commend you for taking up such a project. Just understand that it would have to be done in a way that each and every single aspect would need to have it's own product.

        As far as tech stuff, hostgator has an extensive section for this from what I am told, plus there is always google...

        Video vs Info Product - There are many that do not like video's and many that do.. There is good and bad either way you go. For example a video does not allow me to jump to the good parts but on the other hand a info product could take longer to read or learn. Personally I do not like videos unless they are for instructions of how a system works...

        James
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  • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
    Steve,

    One of the things many writers/marketers are guilty of is "presumption of knowledge". This can leave people, annoyed, confused and bumfuzzled.

    Granted, most folks know how to move a mouse cursor across a screen but I bet you'd be surprised at how many don't know that most programs permit "right click" access to several common, useful functions. The number of people not aware of standard keyboard shortcuts that can save time may also surprise you.

    Load all the simple "but I thought everyone knew that" stuff in an early section of your manual. People that know it can skip it, those that don't will be grateful.

    Go to your local bookstore or library and grab a current "dummies" or "idiots" book-subject irrelevant-and get ideas for content arrangement and layout.

    Don't assume and don't presume.

    Elmer Hurlstone
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  • Profile picture of the author stevecl
    Steven,

    How about something about landing pages or how to write a credible product review.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Raybould
    Hi Steven,

    I'd go with copywriting.

    Far too many marketers get a rude awakening
    when they throw their first sales page up and
    don't make a single cent.

    Most people have no idea how hard it is to
    produce copy that's going to make them money
    consistently, and their businesses really falter
    because of this.

    Also, clickbank is littered with decent products
    that simply aren't producing because the
    copywriting isn't up to scratch.

    So there you are.

    Short and sweet lol

    David Raybould
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    • Profile picture of the author Mmfh
      I have to agree with the others that said writing good copy. I know I lack in that department and just went to the library yesterday and found a few books on the subject but they are several years old and I'm thinking things now are probably a little different in the way you write to appeal to the masses.
      Writing really great copy would get my attention!

      Mm
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  • Profile picture of the author GrantFreeman
    Steve,

    The first idea that you could consider is writing about " the importance of listening". Gee. Where did I get that idea

    More seriously, I'd like to see more ebooks about the importance of taking action, and what that actually means. Techniques are good, but the information overload has been something I've struggled with for a very long time. Untill recently. And I can't tell you how much a difference that one topic has made in my life.

    Grant
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  • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Since I've been here, I've heard all kinds of things in regard to what people
    want to learn in order to ultimately make a profit online.

    This may be more advanced since a marketer doesnt "need" these ideas to make them money, but could be the difference in 100$ a day and 1,000$ a day.

    Branding, Positioning, USP, and competitive advantages are very useful in affiliate marketing. Probably not necessary for a begininer, but can make a huge difference.

    Also copywriting
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
    Why do people here want to learn more about copywriting? As entrepreneurs, one would think you'd want to learn more about OUTSOURCING all that stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      Why do people here want to learn more about copywriting? As entrepreneurs, one would think you'd want to learn more about OUTSOURCING all that stuff.
      Because its good to understand sales and copywriting can help a marketer better understand sales.

      Also many people here are a 1 person operation and may not have the money to outsource copy. If you go with cheap copy, its possible it will cost more money in the long run with testing and hiring new copywriters.
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      "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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      • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
        Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

        Because its good to understand sales and copywriting can help a marketer better understand sales.

        Also many people here are a 1 person operation and may not have the money to outsource copy. If you go with cheap copy, its possible it will cost more money in the long run with testing and hiring new copywriters.
        I appreciate the sincere answer, so let me ask you this, then...

        ...does a person REALLY need to study a copywriting just to understand marketing better?

        And even so, the way you described "not having enough money" to outsource the copy is indicative of the "consumer" mindset.

        Is it not the wiser path to have a person create a goal with a PLAN, including estimated COSTS. Once they have the blueprint in front them, they have something to shoot for. If, for example, it turns out they only need $650, they can work extra hours, sell their body on Craigslist, or cash in a stock portfolio.

        "Not having enough money" should NEVER be an issue. Not knowing how MUCH money is needed to reach goal, and not knowing how to EARN it, IS an issue.

        Heck, a person could even BARTER.

        A person could even go to GURU.COM where they can offer a PERCENTAGE of sales (or first month sales, etc), a creative arrangement, in exchange for services.

        I asked my original question because I know that people do not need a copywriting course to succeed in marketing. And newbies, especially, don't need to be getting bogged down in that stuff. They need to learn how to set a GOAL and PLAN and then creatively OBTAIN funds, if needed, and then OUTSOURCE intelligently.

        In any case, best regards,
        Eric
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        • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          ...does a person REALLY need to study a copywriting just to understand marketing better?
          Depends on the persons end goals, so it could be yes and no.

          What if the person who writes the copy misses stuff and because of your copy knowlege you can tweak it yourself? Alot of direct response copywriters describe copywriters doing salemanship in print.

          Most websites want more sales and writing copy, creating videos, webinars, and teleseminars can all produce sales. Writing copy can also help people when creating videos and in webinars, ect..

          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          And even so, the way you described "not having enough money" to outsource the copy is indicative of the "consumer" mindset.
          lol, how so?

          Believe it or not, some people actually live pay check to pay check. Depending on who writes your copy it could cost a $500 to thousands of dollars, for copy alone.

          For people just getting started, there is nothing wrong with learning copy.

          Sales is important in marketing. Copy is sales thats why i learn it.

          Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

          I asked my original question because I know that people do not need a copywriting course to succeed in marketing. And newbies, especially, don't need to be getting bogged down in that stuff. They need to learn how to set a GOAL and PLAN and then creatively OBTAIN funds, if needed, and then OUTSOURCE intelligently.
          Your right, people don't need a copy course to be successful. Saying newbies don't need to get bogged down in that stuff is terrible advice. There is no "one size fits all". Some may want to learn and others may not have the need. You don't want to learn it and thats fine. Doesn't mean its not an important aspect of marketing.

          And learning copy can help people creativly OBTAIN funds.

          Learn copy and sell your services- thats how a marketer can raise my- by learning copy
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      Why do people here want to learn more about copywriting? As entrepreneurs, one would think you'd want to learn more about OUTSOURCING all that stuff.
      Because currently people are trying to make money not spend it. I realize that you have to spend some money on your business to make it grow, but the reality is that a lot of people right now are just getting by or worse, so they are trying to do the work themselves.

      It is really easy to get traffic to a website. It is hard to convert that traffic to buyers if your copy sucks. So that is why people would want to learn more about copywriting.
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    • Profile picture of the author CmdrStidd
      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      Why do people here want to learn more about copywriting? As entrepreneurs, one would think you'd want to learn more about OUTSOURCING all that stuff.
      Let me answer your question with this true story. When my nephews were in grade school, they would come home with homework and their teacher had told them they could use a calculator to do the math. I, on the other hand, forbade them from using it and made them do their math long hand. My nephews used to tell me they hated me for that and they complained about how unfair it was that I would not let them use a calculator to do their homework.

      When Paul was 16 he got a job at McDonald's. One day he came home and he gave me a great big hug and told me "Thank you." I asked him what brought this on and he told me that there was a power outage at work. None of the other cashiers could take orders since their registers were down. They did not know how to figure the change that was due back without the register telling them. Because I made them learn the math the right way, he was able to keep the customers moving by taking the orders, figuring what the customer owed and calculating what change was due back without the use of the register. His boss was going to give him a bonus in that weeks check for saving the company so much waste product.

      If your "students" don't know how to write successful copy themselves, then how are they going to know if they are buying good copy or if they are getting shafted? According to you, all you need to know is how to work the calculator, but I contend that you had better know how to do it the right way first, then worry about using the calculator afterwards or you could be in for a very expensive lesson since copy does go for as much as a couple grand in some cases.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Here's the WF search tag cloud...The bigger the font, the more popular the search. However, all of them comprise the "most popular" searches for info. I'd say this is better than asking, as it's what information Warriors are actively searching for.

    $100 100 add added adsense adwords affiliate article articles automated aweber backlinks blackhat blog blogs business cash classroom clickbank content cow cpa craigslist day days design detective domination ebay ebook email firepow flipping forum free godcpa google graphics hosting instant internet keyword link link building links list loophole made make making marketing mass membership money needed niche offer offline package paypal people plr plugin post ppc press product products profit quality question report research review ridiculuos rss sales script search secrets seo site sites squidoo system today top traffic twitter video warrior warriors web website word wordpress wso xsitepro youtube youtubei
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  • Profile picture of the author izzymay
    Steve

    Who will be your target market? If it is to newbies like myself surely a real step by step approach would be required with all details included however trivial they may seem to more seasoned IMers.
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    Not nailed it yet - but getting there!

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by izzymay View Post

      Steve

      Who will be your target market? If it is to newbies like myself surely a real step by step approach would be required with all details included however trivial they may seem to more seasoned IMers.

      Yeah, I probably should have included this in my original post. I thought
      by mentioning basics like ftp and stuff like that it was obvious I was
      targeting new people, who I feel need the most help.

      And Frank, I've already been down this road with my list, which is where
      the items I mentioned in my OP came from.

      I'm just looking to see if there is something else that my list might have
      left out that is in demand.

      And yes, you can't be all things to all people. I realize that.

      My main goal with this is simple.

      Get people to start and run a successful $5,000 to $10,000 a month
      business in the shortest time possible...not leaving out anything that
      would be considered important to making that happen.

      Hope this makes things a little more clear.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        And yes, you can't be all things to all people. I realize that.

        My main goal with this is simple.

        Get people to start and run a successful $5,000 to $10,000 a month
        business in the shortest time possible...not leaving out anything that
        would be considered important to making that happen.

        Hope this makes things a little more clear.
        Steven, do what makes you happy. But there are hundreds of ways to quickly make $5,000 to $10,000 a month, including eBay, CPA, site-flipping etc. Can you do them all justice?

        Some of the best advice you and others have given newcomers is to focus. I agree with Tina; an all-encompassing compendium of IM methods, even if such a project were feasible, is going to seem pretty overwhelming to your potential market.


        Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author izzymay
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Yeah, I probably should have included this in my original post. I thought
        by mentioning basics like ftp and stuff like that it was obvious I was
        targeting new people, who I feel need the most help.

        And Frank, I've already been down this road with my list, which is where
        the items I mentioned in my OP came from.

        I'm just looking to see if there is something else that my list might have
        left out that is in demand.

        And yes, you can't be all things to all people. I realize that.

        My main goal with this is simple.

        Get people to start and run a successful $5,000 to $10,000 a month
        business in the shortest time possible...not leaving out anything that
        would be considered important to making that happen.

        Hope this makes things a little more clear.

        As a complete newbie this is exactly the type of product I am looking for right now.

        Not wanting to be too cheeky but if and when you get this project off the ground I'd be more than happy to review/test it for you! Please PM me if you're interested!
        Signature

        Not nailed it yet - but getting there!

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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Steven

    I would have thought the first thing to do is target your research.

    This thread is likely to be read by people who don't yet know what they don't know, right through to those looking to go from six to seven figures and beyond.

    All will have different requirements.

    Your best bet is to survey your own lists, especially if they've been segmented. These people have a history with you and know what to expect from you.

    You can't be all things to all people.


    Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Hi Steve

    You said you are covering Traffic Generation In General. I'd say two or three traffic generation methods covered in detail would be better.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Roy
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Roy Carter View Post

      Hi Steve

      You said you are covering Traffic Generation In General. I'd say two or three traffic generation methods covered in detail would be better.

      Just my 2 cents.

      Roy

      What I meant by general is that I covered traffic generation for many
      different types. The actual info is quite detailed. I just didn't list each
      method here.

      Hope this clears that up.

      My goodness, I'm not making myself very clear today...am I?
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  • Profile picture of the author reynald2790
    I think you should be more content filled so that your visitors would like to purchase a product from you. The content is more important the others.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I have been involved in Internet marketing in some form or another for about 10 years.

    My point?

    It was only last year that I started using FTP. What a huge time saver! Before that I would have to log in to my hosting account, navigate to the right folder, browse my personal computer, upload the file...

    So, even "well-established" marketers don't always know the basics. Perhaps it is because they have a way that works for them, and that's "good enough". Assuming anything can be a slippery slope.

    When doing free coaching, I'm still surpised at how many people don't know how to cut & paste. I take the time to explain it, and they are usually grateful to have learned something so useful.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author kkrueger
    Two of my biggest stumbling blocks have been...

    how to organize all my blogs, logins, social bookmarking sites with all the logins and emails for each one, when I posted to which site for which URL and all the keywords. My mind has been buzzing with this problem...It sounds like a new software program. I was kinda playing with the idea, but then that would send me off into another direction, and there goes my focus again LOL

    The other thing that has always had me stumped is uploading a product and downloading it using aweber and paypal. There was another warrior who gave a free video tutorial on it...but it was so confusing, I took notes, but I still didn't get it right. Making folders and put folders inside of folders with a blank index.html...I don't know. And then putting the URL in paypal, and the links in Aweber. But I feel like for all the ebooks I have bought about writing your own ebook, and product creation, there is nothing that has ever explained that process. I have bought all the big name guru books about writing ebooks, and nary a mention of how to upload and making the download links.

    I eventually bought DLguard, but I still have customers that have problems with the downloading process and understanding. 4 out of every 5 customers, I have to manually send them the product or link.

    Okay...that's it for me. Thanks Steven for asking
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Steven, as a business model the content you are looking at
    has been done. IMC publishes their mammoth course which
    tries to cover every possible way to make money online
    for the complete beginner. My 2006 copy is like 800 pages
    and doesn't even cover technical stuff much - it's mostly a
    business course.

    Many of us here, myself included, are technicians. We know
    how to "do stuff" and put up websites, work with files,
    learn software quickly, surf the web with blinding speed,
    etc... we are in a environment that works for us because
    technical comprehension makes it possible for us to do
    things most people cannot do with any efficiency.

    The vast MASS of people who WANT to make money online
    are at the low end of the technical skill spectrum. I
    started there too. I "picked-up" stuff as I needed it...
    and never found any central resource that covered
    what I use in my business. It's a Frankenstein monster,
    stitched together from a patchwork of skills and insights.

    If you wanted to do 5 day seminars and charge a couple
    of grand a seat, I think your project has merit.... but
    the truth is your students would still struggle to absorb
    what they need. If you make it online you'll be doing a LOT
    of work for probably not much payoff, comparatively speaking.

    I would try to outline it as a seminar format, taking students
    through a process. Don't try to write an encyclopedia.
    Teach people where they are in a format they can use
    to learn and on terms you get well-paid for.

    This isn't a money-grabbing issue. It's a matter of
    positioning. Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Simo
    Hi Steven,

    Firstly I thank you for the plethora of high quality posts you make to this site. Long may it continue.

    My feedback (from the perspective of an internet marketing newbie) is:

    Don't do e-book. Do a "case study" (with video slides) using camtasia for bringing a hypothetical product to market, and incorporate the steps along the way (you can spin that into doing affiliate marketing etc)

    The benefit is that it provides a liner path for learning which is sequential and will allow people (especially newbies) to apply themselves (so much better than an e-book) and can easily refer back to in the future. Or do a mixture of both. Lesson with companion manual.

    So far we have got these topics you are covering:

    -Business Planning
    -Affiliate Marketing
    -Product Creation
    -Traffic Generation In General

    Here are my suggestions for additions:

    -Building a website (This seemed to be the one item often missing and as some of the members have said many people don't actually know stuff like this)
    A suggestion would be an overview of free services/apps versus open source apps versus professional software/services

    -Using a merchant (pros and cons af clickbank, paydotcom etc)
    -Product planning (if not the same as business planning)
    -SEO basics (off and on site SEO - I am sure there will be some cross over here with traffic generation)
    -Top 10 classic internet marketing mistakes and how to avoid them
    -Autoresponders
    - Basic information (or software) to save you time and leverage your life (refer to kkrueger's post)
    -Graphics (for website)

    Hope this is useful and valid feedback, and best wishes.
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  • Profile picture of the author understandyourniche
    SEO, email marketing, video creation, ...

    I mean you could be here doing detailed & painfully detailed tutorials till the hydrogen supply in our Sun is exhausted...

    I'd rather have a product that forced me to take action in some area, i.e. something where you learn as you go, as yours do, but you're not going to get the next thing until YOU TAKE ACTION on the current task.

    I'm trying to create such a product with a website.
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    • Profile picture of the author Charles E. White
      Steven, I read a lot of your articles the other day on article writing....you could teach a lot about that. The articles I read that you wrote were excellent!
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  • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
    Hi Steven:

    Hope all is well and thanks for looking out for the great Warriors. I can tell you from a writer's point of view and a professional speaker as well that there are 2 things left out in offers from 7.00 to 7000.00. The topics will have to be up to you but the information that is omitted is:

    Let's say the topic is You Tube Traffic. The creator of the download will give good information but not enough of the insider secrets of the major players. It's almost as if the attitude is we can throw a bone but....

    Secondly is to never take for granted people have technical ability. What I mean is when we turn on a television set we don't know why it goes on only you need a remote and a cable box.

    If for example you are talking about having a site to register a domain and a separate web host it is not enough to mention about pointing name servers. They should be explained what they are and how to do this step by step. I will not mention the programs but 2 expensive ones were giving instructions on how to point the name servers and were 100 percent incorrect on the information. That doesn't make the reader feel good about the contents.

    Attention to detail.
    No secret left behind
    Logical step by step in a language that all demographics and educational levels can follow.

    Have a great Sunday!
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  • Profile picture of the author jtgill
    As a new Internet Marketer a few of my biggest hang-ups are:

    1. What programs and services to use to set up my business. There are so many out there and it can be difficult to know what is best to use.

    2. Once I get everything set-up how is it all tracked so I can keep up with what is going on

    3. How to do all this as cheap as possible and still be successful. I know that many of the newbies that get started in this business are just getting by financially and that cost is a Big Issue. I know you have to understand that you will have to spend some to make some but I also know it is totally possible to succeed on a small budget.
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  • Profile picture of the author revjoe
    There is some very important stuff you should cover. People need to know what is a reliable hosting company. How to handle heavy traffic with a prelaunch. How to do a prelaunch. How to use and get affiliates for your product. What are the best merchant accounts. How to use social media.
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    Keep the faith and never give up!

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  • Profile picture of the author jblack
    I think people need to know how much work it is to be successful in IM. Most are buying dreams. They hear the big stories and think it comes easily.

    It is NOT easy, it takes lots and lots of time and effort. People need to work hard at this. The people who work hard get rewards. Most are too lazy to do what they need to do to become a success.

    Not sure this can ever be taught no matter how much info they get.

    I think you give people as much as you possibly can and hope they follow your system
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Hi Steven! I have to agree with what TheRichJerksNet said above. I think of it as kind of like the music industry. I've probably got a couple hundred iTunes songs on my laptop here. I have never downloaded a complete CD because most have one or two good songs but the rest is filler material.

    I think selling stuff on line is like that. If someone sees a product for say $57, and it covers everything--no matter how good it may be, they may be saying, "hey I only need about a quarter of this so why spend money on the whole thing?"

    And my 2¢ worth. People buy IM related stuff online based more on emotions than logic. Sell them on a dream, not on a product. I guess it's like the "Sell the sizzle, not the steak thing". I like your idea Steven--but I would try to develop it along the lines of 1.) this is simple, 2.) this is focused, and 3.) like someone said above, you're not just giving them the facts, but you're giving them the case studies of exactly how you did this.

    I don't think people like "complicated". I could give you the names of a dozen Clickbank products that made it to the top 10 in Marketing & Ads which don't give the buyer a clue as to what the product actually is. They show earnings statements (misleading), and testimonials (almost all of which were written by JV partners), but you have to buy the product to find out what it really is all about.

    I, personally, would never buy a product such as this, but the reason they are successful is that the vendor is selling a dream, not a product.

    Rant ended at precisely 12:13 P.M. Good luck Steven!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Dude, these guys are right.

      Eric's got the basics down. Others have pointed out that you're looking to do the impossible. They're right.

      I used to be a huge supporter of Ken Evoy's products, especially "Make Your Site Sell." It's free now, and still one of the best things around. Know why I stopped?

      It's too damned big.

      Even with the excellent organizational system Ken uses, it's just too much. What - something like 1800 pages? That's begging to scare the hell out of your customers.

      You're talking about something even more ambitious. And more overwhelming.

      Show them how to set goals, and how to choose the right business model for themselves. Then teach them how to learn what they need to know to make things happen. Or how to find the people who can do it for them.

      All that aside, there is an awful lot of this stuff that you're simply not qualified to teach to newbies. That's not a personal comment, as there isn't anyone who knows all of it that well. None of us.

      Example: Can you tell me, right now, the most important part of a salesletter, and how to use it to multiply your potential profits? And can you communicate that to a newbie in a way that they'll understand and be able to apply?

      I'll be surprised if you can. Damned few full-time professional copywriters I know have really mastered it. I know several who got the answer wrong when asked, and acknowledged it when it was explained. Rookies almost never get it right, and they flounder because of it.

      Why is this important? In a direct sales model, getting this wrong almost guarantees failure. Are you ready for that responsibility?

      There are fields I almost never even discuss, much less try to teach. I leave things like SEO to guys like Kurt. He knows it, and I don't.

      Teach what you KNOW. Show them how to find out the rest.

      Unless I'm misunderstanding the scope of your intentions (a real possibility), you're just begging to spend a year or more developing a product that will almost certainly prove to be too much for you AND your prospects.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Here's a novel concept..

    In all the hooplah and crazy teachings about FTP, and all the other random stuff.. at what point are you actually gonna teach people to bring money in the door?..

    FTP doesn't bring money in the door... payment links do.

    I like this video (5 minutes right now could save you a great deal of time and headache Waggerz):


    Peace

    Jay
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    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post



      I like this video (5 minutes right now could save you a great deal of time and headache Waggerz):


      Peace

      Jay
      I still can't get over seeing him in a suit rather than with his dating pals talking about group sex.
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      nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    p.s. I battled with this same thing recently whilst creating my own product.. I did put some extra additions into it.. basics, etc.. domain purchase, hosting, squidoo lens building.

    In the end though...

    I want to show people how to make money.. as quickly as is humanly possible, and that made me step back and focus on the cash making spots for the end user.

    Peace

    Jay
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    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Well I know this could be better if I took the time on it but dont feel like opening photoshop..lol

      I think it is time to get rid of the tie and jacket Steven...



      James
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    • Profile picture of the author affenpinscher
      There used to be a first rate copywriter with a membership site. Every month
      you got a well written sales letter (for a website) on a hot Clickbank item,
      and autoresponder series.

      It's not going anymore but I would love to see that with a video added.

      Or just PLR monthly video site for niche videos.

      Realize I'm answering a question you didn't ask, but I bet I'm not the only
      one who would much rather buy a full up package than listen/read
      85,000 videos and CDs on how to create a joint venture.

      Yes, I'm lazy but we're probably one of the biggest markets on the Internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author thetwooldladies
    Deleted see reason below.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      As a newbie what do I want ? ... if I could sum it up in a word ...


      MENTORSHIP


      What has been missing for me in the last 3-4 months of this journey from bleeding eyeballed newb ... to site and blog owning, digital product developing wannabe info-preneur is a TRUSTED Guide and Mentor.

      A person who can point a rolling stone in the right direction and match effort with effort.

      Someone who I could trust to reveal my first draft Sales Copy and niches too who wont steal them and compete with me.

      Someone who could point me to a reputable web host / AR Service / Article Writer / Website Developer / AR Series writer.

      Someone who could assist me in avoiding products of little to no value.

      Someone I could speak with or Instant Message or Skype with to keep things moving on Task.

      Someone to say to me ... "If you're willing to do this this and that ... and come back to me in X Days when its done, I'll work with you ... one on one or in a tight trusted group or bigger even - but its all about the trust!"

      How would a newb with little to no flow compensate such a mentor? Well, if you're worth your salt and know you can help people REALLY make $$$ online, then filter your students carefully and do your program on a Performance Based FEE arrangement up to a STOP Loss for the mentee.

      For example ... If you're telling me you can make me $10k a month and shortcut my learning curve by months, years, weeks whatever ... Let's freakin rock my friend!!! Whats your price? Take it out of my sales.

      50/50 --- 60/40 --- 70/30 whatever it is - until you get paid your fee.

      Im sure there is a creative way your mentor'd students could set up their products or systems to pay their mentor a portion of the sales of products they sell using your teachings.

      Sooner I pay you for the results I get to keep my sales and pay you even more to take me to the NEXT Level. They I'd buy high ticket products you'd recommend through your affiliate links - because you're the man and you made me- or helped anyways.


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      • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
        Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

        As a newbie what do I want ? ... if I could sum it up in a word ...


        MENTORSHIP


        What has been missing for me in the last 3-4 months of this journey from bleeding eyeballed newb ... to site and blog owning, digital product developing wannabe info-preneur is a TRUSTED Guide and Mentor.

        A person who can point a rolling stone in the right direction and match effort with effort.

        Someone who I could trust to reveal my first draft Sales Copy and niches too who wont steal them and compete with me.

        Someone who could point me to a reputable web host / AR Service / Article Writer / Website Developer / AR Series writer.

        Someone who could assist me in avoiding products of little to no value.

        Someone I could speak with or Instant Message or Skype with to keep things moving on Task.

        Someone to say to me ... "If you're willing to do this this and that ... and come back to me in X Days when its done, I'll work with you ... one on one or in a tight trusted group or bigger even - but its all about the trust!"

        How would a newb with little to no flow compensate such a mentor? Well, if you're worth your salt and know you can help people REALLY make $$$ online, then filter your students carefully and do your program on a Performance Based FEE arrangement up to a STOP Loss for the mentee.

        For example ... If you're telling me you can make me $10k a month and shortcut my learning curve by months, years, weeks whatever ... Let's freakin rock my friend!!! Whats your price? Take it out of my sales.

        50/50 --- 60/40 --- 70/30 whatever it is - until you get paid your fee.

        Im sure there is a creative way your mentor'd students could set up their products or systems to pay their mentor a portion of the sales of products they sell using your teachings.

        Sooner I pay you for the results I get to keep my sales and pay you even more to take me to the NEXT Level. They I'd buy high ticket products you'd recommend through your affiliate links - because you're the man and you made me- or helped anyways.

        Which of my links do you want?

        See you soon....
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        Bare Murkage.........

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  • Profile picture of the author waken
    Okay...this has nothing to do with this thread but the title is exactly what I needed - Warriors I Need Your Help.

    Not too sure what went wrong but I didn't change any setting etc. I just cannot post a new thread, cannot pm etc. All I could do was to reply to existing post and not all replies were successful. Can someone pls guide me through or report this on my behalf to Allen?

    Thanks.
    Waken
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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Originally Posted by waken View Post

      Okay...this has nothing to do with this thread but the title is exactly what I needed - Warriors I Need Your Help.

      Not too sure what went wrong but I didn't change any setting etc. I just cannot post a new thread, cannot pm etc. All I could do was to reply to existing post and not all replies were successful. Can someone pls guide me through or report this on my behalf to Allen?

      Thanks.
      Waken
      Waken ...

      Use: Warrior Forum Helpdesk

      James
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  • Profile picture of the author MinervaSue
    Hello Steve & all, As a bonafide "newbie" I have been reading this thread with great interest. In my short time learning about IM I have bought several products that were supposed to be "newbie friendly" in hopes of getting my feet wet & making a start. The big stuff I managed quite well, the research, writing the articles, etc etc, but it was the little technical things that threw me. The last one I tried I felt I did well, got all the way through the project, & the last instruction was, "now insert your links & you're done!" HuH?? Didn't have a clue how to insert a link. So at first I was excited that you have planned this service for all of us who are struggling with these details. Then after reading all the comments I too realize what an overwhelming undertaking this will be. I wonder if it might be possibile to have a separate section here at WF that just covers the techie stuff, like inserting links, ftp, making a list, all the things that we should know but for whatever reason just can't seem to grasp. Well, that is my 2 cents worth, I will be following this thread to see what may develop.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I know it's frustrating when you run into small technical "do this" that you don't understand. However, no product or forum or any one site will teach you every detail.

      When you think "how do I" - use google. When I was a newbie, google should have charged me for the searches I did related to "how do I".

      For example:

      How to use FTP
      How to insert link in web page
      What is RSS
      how to build a website
      what is a landing page
      etc

      I'm not criticizing your question or making light of your comment. Just realize that you will learn from many sources and there will never be one single product, program or tutorial that will provide all the info in a way everyone can grasp. Many products you purchase or blueprints you try will have at least one tactic that makes you go "huh?".

      Stop at that point, open another browser window and look up that information, find an explanation that answers your particular question - then go back and keep working on the project applying what you just learned.

      Don't sit back and wait for info to be supplied - look for it, dig for it, learn what you need and keep going. Whatever you do - don't just stop working on a project because there is something (or a few things) you don't know.

      Most of the items we think of as "technical" are often simple to do once we master the fear of "OMG, I can't do this technical stuff".

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    As a sidenote..

    If anyone is looking for a ton of newbie basics stuff..

    Kevin Riley has a whole group of "newbie toolkit" sites dedicated to things that some marketers gloss over...
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  • Profile picture of the author success09
    I have read all of the above poat and all are right on target, But I'm new to internet marketing so to speak, I have a web page, tried article marketing as well. But the problem is not what you list.It's getting people to the site and getting sales.

    Thats the problem that everyone I talk to who are learning this is having. You start one thing and then before you know it everyone has a new program that teaches the same thing but in other ways. This is what confuses new comers.

    So, if you really what to help focus on that, since there are many other book and coaches who show you how to set things up but, what is really missing is how can you make money when you have none.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Originally Posted by success09 View Post

      I have read all of the above poat and all are right on target, But I'm new to internet marketing so to speak, I have a web page, tried article marketing as well. But the problem is not what you list.It's getting people to the site and getting sales.

      Thats the problem that everyone I talk to who are learning this is having. You start one thing and then before you know it everyone has a new program that teaches the same thing but in other ways. This is what confuses new comers.

      So, if you really what to help focus on that, since there are many other book and coaches who show you how to set things up but, what is really missing is how can you make money when you have none.
      This is the problem with most newbies and even some oldies... You should stay focused on what you are doing, put it through the test, work it, put your freaking heart and soul into it and "IGNORE" what those gurus come out with about this is new or that is new...

      There will always be news ways to make money and a million different ways to do a million things. What you need to do is focus on what you are doing and "DO NOT" let anything get in your way.. Focus on what you do have and what you have learned, you can worry about new tactics after you have mastered what you are working on now..

      In short .. Ignore the new BS and Hype, who cares if Mickey The Marketer just made $1 Million with AdWords .. Seriously, who cares.. Good for him, you should not let that stop you from staying focused on what you are doing.

      James
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  • Profile picture of the author jficarro
    Steve. Looking forward to your product launch. I understand you are marketing primarily to newbies. I'd like to see something geared toward more experienced marketers. I'm not interested in ftp, or getting how to get paypal to redirect to a download page, but would love to see a complete guide to a least several business models that effectively provide 4 figures/month.
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  • Profile picture of the author jficarro
    Pushed the wrong button and posted too early.
    Some things I'd like to see:
    specific testing models
    ad copy
    getting traffic
    maintaining a list (keeping people on it)
    getting more sales
    video marketing
    SEO
    I'm sure I am one of those "unfocused" people. There are so many ways to make money. I am just tired of all the newbie stuff (no offence to those starting out). I just want more "in depth" stuff. I suspect, having purchase some of your stuff before, that whatever you produce... it will be good.
    James
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  • Profile picture of the author ThePokerEconomist
    If you really want to make sure you are actually covering all bases, I suggest you grab a middle schooler and make sure you are able to step him/her through each of the steps required. I figure that most of the US population has about a Middle School education (i'm kidding, well sort of...).

    But really, w/ the recession, we can only be expecting a larger influx of people turning to the Net to make $... out of necessity. I think you would do a big favor to those that are relatively new to the Internet to explain literally everything. I don't personally need it, but there definitely was a time when I did...
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