Is this a fair punishment for spammers?

126 replies
Howdy Fellow Warriors,

I just got done doing the morning cleaning of my inbox, and had an idea that seems like a fair punishment for spammers.

Yes, it includes jail time.

As it should.

There was a time when I thought life sentences were more than fair, but this is a more reasonable approach.

What you do is calculate how many total pieces of spam the spammer sent, and how much time people spent deleting those messages. The spammer would then receive the equivalent sentence in jail time.

For example, if they send out 1,000,000 pieces of spam and it takes an average of 5 seconds to delete each one, then their jail sentence would be (if my math is correct) about 59 days.

So, what do you think? Would this be fair?

All the best,
Michael
#fair #punishment #spammers
  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    If nothing is damage, I would suggest community service. Unless they are hacking into your system or used your email as sender to send millions of emails, and you are receiving millions of mailer-daemon error bounce back..
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  • Profile picture of the author Cali16
    Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

    For example, if they send out 1,000,000 pieces of spam and it takes an average of 5 seconds to delete each one, then their jail sentence would be (if my math is correct) about 59 days.
    Sounds totally fair and reasonable to me, Michael! They should also have to forfeit any profits (if any) that they made from their irritating spam emails.
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  • Profile picture of the author cursedmask
    They deserve that and must be thrown to a deserted island
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    They shouldn't only just get jail time of the equivalent of our precious time wasted, they should also be made to pay the equivalent of time wasted in cash as damage. If you are to sum up the amount of people's time wasted I'm a year, you can imagine the amount of money, leisure e.t.c we would have derived.

    I wonder what a spam clickthrough rate would be from an untrust worthy recipient because I can't imagine buying stuff from people desperately and illegally spamming me. There desperation clearly signifies their dangerous URGE.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Needs more: their entire sentence also involves reading and deleting spam emails from victim's inboxes. One. At. A. Time.

    Why no, I'm not a sadist. Why would you say that?
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    • Profile picture of the author SeoDemon
      Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

      Needs more: their entire sentence also involves reading and deleting spam emails from victim's inboxes. One. At. A. Time.

      Why no, I'm not a sadist. Why would you say that?
      That's ideal, i get dozens of these everyday in my email, and it caused me once to lose a very important email from a client who i won his $250 logo contest, and when i cleaned my inbox, i found it after a whole 10 days
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  • Profile picture of the author stefffff
    59 days is too low... and maybe jailtime is a bit harsh, but what about confiscating all of their equipment plus the interdiction to use a computer for 5 year?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by stefffff View Post

      59 days is too low... and maybe jailtime is a bit harsh, but what about confiscating all of their equipment plus the interdiction to use a computer for 5 year?
      59 days is only an example. I'm willing to bet a lot of spammers send out more than 1,000,000 messages. If it's 10,000,000 then it jumps to 590 days. Also, if it would take more than 5 seconds to handle each one, then the sentence would go up accordingly.

      Jail time seems less harsh than not being able to use a computer.

      All the best,
      Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author sara121
      LOL.. I really like this. anyways jokes apart, this is really a fair punishment for spammers.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    I disagree. They should be fined, and the money should be given
    to the victims. It's much better this way. Spammers should be
    put in jail only if they fail to pay or if they keep repeating
    the offence.
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  • Profile picture of the author wackiin
    sounds like someone with to much time on there hands to me
    I dislike hitting the DELETE key myself from some of these clowns on this forum that send 10,20x aday but even thinking of sending someone to jail for you DELETING a email is stupid.
    There is way to many nuts on the streets to be worried about a email spammer.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    There's no need to punish spammers when using a spam filter removes the email. This isn't 1998 anymore
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      There's no need to punish spammers when using a spam filter removes the email. This isn't 1998 anymore
      So you NEVER get a SINGLE spam message in ANY of your email accounts?

      Just curious.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        So you NEVER get a SINGLE spam message in ANY of your email accounts?

        Just curious.

        All the best,
        Michael
        That's correct. I use a cloud-based email security service which removes all the spam. Problem solved
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          That's correct. I use a cloud-based email security service which removes all the spam. Problem solved
          Thank you.

          One more question: Is it free?

          All the best,
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author mosthost
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            Thank you.

            One more question: Is it free?

            All the best,
            Michael
            No, it costs $27 per year. Since I used email extensively for my business, it's a small price to pay. It's a great feeling to say goodbye to spammers
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      There's no need to punish spammers when using a spam filter removes the email. This isn't 1998 anymore

      no?

      how about if a spammer almost ruins someone's reputation by spoofing someone's personal domain's main email address, causing people to think that the person whose email was spoofed is the spammer?

      The Pharma spammers did it to me. It caused me a lot of grief, time lost learning all kinds of security measures to implement, and the stigma - the stuff said about you online, never goes away, ever.

      So, those f**kers deserve to be punished. But, jail time is too good for them. Someone said ban them from using computers, ever. I agree. Even any job they get, if anyone hires them, can not be working with or on computers. That will severely limit their earning capacity. Karma, baby!

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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

        no?

        how about if a spammer almost ruins someone's reputation by spoofing someone's personal domain's main email address, causing people to think that the person whose email was spoofed is the spammer?

        The Pharma spammers did it to me. It caused me a lot of grief, time lost learning all kinds of security measures to implement, and the stigma - the stuff said about you online, never goes away, ever.

        So, those f**kers deserve to be punished. But, jail time is too good for them. Someone said ban them from using computers, ever. I agree. Even any job they get, if anyone hires them, can not be working with or on computers. That will severely limit their earning capacity. Karma, baby!

        To eliminate this, set up an SPF record. Problem solved

        This is technological warfare and requires a technological solution, not an emotional response.

        On one hand:

        1) Kill all spammers/maim them/jail them.
        2) Filter their crap out.

        I think the second option is a better way to do business

        Cloud-based multiple commercial scanning engines with SPF records should do the trick.
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          To eliminate this, set up an SPF record. Problem solved

          This is technological warfare and requires a technological solution, not an emotional response.

          On one hand:

          1) Kill all spammers/maim them/jail them.
          2) Filter their crap out.

          I think the second option is a better way to do business

          Cloud-based multiple commercial scanning engines with SPF records should do the trick.
          yes, done...SPF record was set-up.
          I did my research.

          However, think about how many people, who don't know any better, and aren't technical like you and I are, have had this happen to them?

          The point is, while setting up SPF records solves the spoofing problem, it doesn't stop spammers from continuing to wreak their havoc. They always find some other way to spam.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gec
    I think the math is good and the punishment is only fair. I would only add this to it:

    while in prison, they have to keep reading SPAM emails during the day, and have SPAM read to them through some loud speakers at night.
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  • Profile picture of the author SShip
    I'm with you Michael. It should also include those that sell or share your email address without permission to the spammers.
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  • Profile picture of the author vCr8
    lol. great thinking that punishment is well deserved for the value of your time spent... though I'm too lazy for all that math I'd say fixed 100days of jail time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    Sounds pretty fair, but I would go a step further. If they're guilty of sending 1,000,000 spam emails, they should be SENT 1,000,000 spam emails, and only ONE of those would contain a "get out of jail" coupon. They have to find that email before being released.
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    • Take a look at this:

      List of spammers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      At least one infamous spammer has been murdered. Others have had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in fines.

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author lerxtjr
        Unfortunately, the spammers you "can" catch and put in jail and take out all your aggression on are the people who don't know what they're doing...some gray hair dentist that gets telemarketed by some list provider and he says "what an awesome idea to send a few thousand emails out to surrounding zip codes announcing my new dentist office grand opening."

        The ones that should be hung by their fingernails are the ones that send automated scripts to harvest emails through your contact forms to find email addresses from people you KNOW and then send spam and links with viruses to you making the emails look like they're coming from your friends and family!

        But you'll never catch those guys because they're so good at masking their IP address and diverting trackers to make it look like the emails are coming from even another country than where they're really sending from.

        I choose to just live with it and accept it as normal daily business on the web. Kind of like when we went to high school. We knew the bullies were there and that no one was going to do anything about them. So, we just sucked it up and went on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Leslie B
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      Sounds pretty fair, but I would go a step further. If they're guilty of sending 1,000,000 spam emails, they should be SENT 1,000,000 spam emails, and only ONE of those would contain a "get out of jail" coupon. They have to find that email before being released.
      And that coupon needs to be hidden in very LONG spam emails so they have to read every one of them. And then when they find the coupon, it needs to give them a code to find the hidden words in the other spam emails they just deleted. OOPS

      Leslie
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    It's over the edge. There's not enough jail space now for violent felons and all the rest. Where do the resources come from to send these people to the pokey? Taxpayers, us. So that means we get punished looking at Viagra ads and then punished to foot the bill to send the Spammers to minimum security club fed where they get the latest movies and learn to play scrabble. I'm with you in spirit but it ain't practical.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Fun idea, but it could be counterproductive...

      Back in my wayward youth, I was traveling to a job site with three coworkers. We got pulled over for speeding, and the cop wanted the fine paid on the spot. When we couldn't come up with the required amount of money, the driver was arrested and spent the night in the local jail.

      He didn't learn anything about speeding, but he did get some lessons in burglary and how to spot lake cabins with easy pickings and how to drill out the locks.

      Throw spammers into that kind of environment, and they'd end up teaching more spammers.

      How about putting them on an island, kind of a modern-day penal colony (particularly apropos for those peddling 'male enhancement', don't you think?). Then make them survive on the money made from the actual conversions on the spam they sent, not the profits from bilking the senders.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Fun idea, but it could be counterproductive...

        Back in my wayward youth, I was traveling to a job site with three coworkers. We got pulled over for speeding, and the cop wanted the fine paid on the spot. When we couldn't come up with the required amount of money, the driver was arrested and spent the night in the local jail.

        He didn't learn anything about speeding, but he did get some lessons in burglary and how to spot lake cabins with easy pickings and how to drill out the locks.

        Throw spammers into that kind of environment, and they'd end up teaching more spammers.

        How about putting them on an island, kind of a modern-day penal colony (particularly apropos for those peddling 'male enhancement', don't you think?). Then make them survive on the money made from the actual conversions on the spam they sent, not the profits from bilking the senders.
        Back in the day, those types of crimes could be made worse by being thrown in jail. Today, there are websites and forums that help to spread the word. I have no doubt that all of the information is bieng shared freely, and at a pace that could never compare to the jailhouse grapevine.

        Also, if they are in jail, then they are, in theory, cut off from the latest developments being shared online.

        The penal colony isn's such a bad idea.

        All the best,
        Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      It's over the edge. There's not enough jail space now for violent felons and all the rest.
      Capital punishment with Pay Per View?
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  • Profile picture of the author pdrs
    All for Adies community service idea - putting them in jail just means we need to spend more time and effort on them. At least make the *******s give back!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jillian W
    I would make them pay a fine equal to the damages done (depends how many spams were sent out) AND do at least 500 hours of community service.

    If they still don't learn, then throw them in jail although it would be odd having email spammers sit in the same cell with a person that was charged with assault and battery.
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  • Profile picture of the author HostWind
    This is a two sided thing. Though I will say that a large percentage of "email marketing" is largely spam either way. People just try to send multiple offers to users with links that they arent interested in. Not saying all is this way, but it is certainly common.
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  • Profile picture of the author elmatador
    Totally ridiculous, why not the death penalty for those who print out the paper flyers as well as for the postman who distribute them?
    Spammers are like toddlers, if you ignore them, they will go away, end of story.
    And when idiots will stop clicking on links to lose 200 pounds and get a 3 foot penis then maybe spam will go away
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by elmatador View Post

      Totally ridiculous, why not the death penalty for those who print out the paper flyers as well as for the postman who distribute them?
      Spammers are like toddlers, if you ignore them, they will go away, end of story.
      And when idiots will stop clicking on links to lose 200 pounds and get a 3 foot penis then maybe spam will go away
      Haven't seen the three foot penis ad. Got a link?

      For a friend...
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        even thinking of sending someone to jail for you DELETING a email is stupid.
        Really?

        I shall refrain from expressing my opinion on the naivete and lack of thought behind that statement, and simply point out that spammers don't just consume a little time here and there. They destroy valuable resources, harm the overall environment in which they ply their "trade," and cost employers billions of dollars a year in paid employee time spent dealing with the problem. They bilk consumers out of more billions each year.

        They reduce open rates for and trust in the emails of legitimate marketers. They increase the cost of operating a useful email infrastructure by multiples. They pollute blogs and forums to the point that people who value their time won't bother with many (any?) of them. They hijack resources and exploit security holes, often creating more security holes in the process. They plant malware on people's computers that is often also used for identity theft and/or distributed denial of service attacks.

        I could go on, if you like?

        Spammers are destructive parasites, and deserve to be treated as such.

        If you send unsolicited bulk messages, whether via email or SMS, or spam blogs, forums, social networks or chat systems, whether with direct messages or for the purpose of link-dropping/"backlinking," you're a spammer. You are the enemy of everything that is useful about electronic communications systems, and should not be surprised if you're treated like a pariah.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Come on, Paul. Tell us how you really feel...

          (BTW, I agree with every word above.)
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            John,
            Come on, Paul. Tell us how you really feel...
            Can't. I'd have to ban myself for that kind of commentary. It would be... impolite.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              John,Can't. I'd have to ban myself for that kind of commentary. It would be... impolite.


              Paul
              DO IT. The inmates will run the asylum in your place. What's the worst that could happen? Well, a pizza shortage I guess, but Warriors aren't selling pizza I think. I think I'll start asking delivery drivers if they're secret IMers, give them a tip if they can name rule #1 word for word...

              Wait, what were we talking about?
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        • Profile picture of the author wackiin
          Ok with so many of you jumping on the send a Email Spammer to jail ban wagon.
          What about all the seo people on this site? you let them sell there services?
          which I am sure 99% use spam methods that would make them a spammer.

          What about the guys selling automation tools on this site? they are sellling spammer software and should be in jail to.

          What about you letting them do it? unless I am wrong you are one of the admins on this site .so if you really want people to go to jail for spam why do you allow tools,and for hire etc to be sold that you know is spamming seems thats a offence in it self? are you ready for some jail time in this theory?

          And out of all the posters in this thread jumping the jail bandwagon how many of you are using ANY type of tools for backlinking at all to gain rankings etc?
          How many of you are using the services section where most of those are spammers? blasting twitter.facebook and any service that was not made for that?

          There is very few ways of backlinking that is not spam.

          This whole topic is nuts theres far worse people to be thrown in jail besides a spammer.
          End rant Have a good one

          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Really?

          I shall refrain from expressing my opinion on the naivete and lack of thought behind that statement, and simply point out that spammers don't just consume a little time here and there. They destroy valuable resources, harm the overall environment in which they ply their "trade," and cost employers billions of dollars a year in paid employee time spent dealing with the problem. They bilk consumers out of more billions each year.

          They reduce open rates for and trust in the emails of legitimate marketers. They increase the cost of operating a useful email infrastructure by multiples. They pollute blogs and forums to the point that people who value their time won't bother with many (any?) of them. They hijack resources and exploit security holes, often creating more security holes in the process. They plant malware on people's computers that is often also used for identity theft and/or distributed denial of service attacks.

          I could go on, if you like?

          Spammers are destructive parasites, and deserve to be treated as such.

          If you send unsolicited bulk messages, whether via email or SMS, or spam blogs, forums, social networks or chat systems, whether with direct messages or for the purpose of link-dropping/"backlinking," you're a spammer. You are the enemy of everything that is useful about electronic communications systems, and should not be surprised if you're treated like a pariah.


          Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by elmatador View Post

      Totally ridiculous, why not the death penalty for those who print out the paper flyers as well as for the postman who distribute them?
      Spammers are like toddlers, if you ignore them, they will go away, end of story.
      And when idiots will stop clicking on links to lose 200 pounds and get a 3 foot penis then maybe spam will go away
      No, it's not totally ridiculous.

      I already said the death penalty was going too far, so no need to get histrionic about it.

      I ignore spammers, and they haven't gone away, so I think that argument is ridiculous. In fact, almost all of us ignore them. To put it another way, spammers don't ignore those who ignore them.

      All the best,
      Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by elmatador View Post

      Spammers are like toddlers, if you ignore them, they will go away, end of story.
      Toddlers eventually grow up and stop that kind of behavior, whereas spammers keep on spamming.

      Originally Posted by elmatador View Post

      And when idiots will stop clicking on links to lose 200 pounds and get a 3 foot penis then maybe spam will go away
      Naive people will always exist. Get used to that.
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  • Profile picture of the author YoungAndOpulent
    Banned
    Email spam was already bad enough, but now we have cellphone spam. The same spam bullshit you receive in your email is now being sent via SMS. The whole purpose of spam is one of deception, so why not punish them? I've fixed the computers of people who's systems were damaged because they opened a spam email. To me, it's not only about a minor inconvenience in time. It's also about the spammer's ruthless intentions.
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  • Profile picture of the author KickAss Marketing
    Well I say that it's a not so fair punishment but may work nonetheless. Anyway, before people start thinking about punishments, we should first set a very specific definition for spamming or at least spamming that we consider "illegal" because I think the definition is still a bit broad.

    Regarding the punishment, it's not so fair because I believe jail time would not just be too harsh but will also be a bit useless if the "spammers" can still do what they did again. Monetary restitution/indemnification is a little bit beneficial because to those who were gravely affected but I think monetary forms of punishment is a bit easy to walk away from. So I guess people should find of new ways of punishment like more surveillance or control over ones use of Internet capabilities, etc.


    ~^_^~
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  • Profile picture of the author VeskeyMedia
    I think the punishment should fit the crime, If they spam me, I get to rape and kill there entire family in front of them. then sell all their assets on eBay.. I feel justified in the severity of this punishment, Perhaps I am a bit cranky from an hour session of deleting spam also
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  • Profile picture of the author wally247
    Remember that stupid kid who went overseas about 15 years ago and vandalized a bunch of stuff....and they publicly "caned" him?


    That's what should happen to spammers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
    I wondered how much of this was tongue in cheek - I'm inclined to think that not much of it is. Wow. Jail, huh? For spam?

    I read a post on this site from someone relating a conversation with a neighbor who was a direct mailer. When asked why he stuck with direct mailing and hadn't gotten into IM, his response was, "There aren't any spam filters in snail mail."

    I guess we should lock up little old ladies who drive 10mph under the speed limit too? After all, she is wasting people's time, those following her, including vehicles that are working, like delivery trucks. Costing companies money, etc.

    Should we all dial 911 when we find anyone wasting our time? That's a whole bunch 'o dialing in a day if you venture out in public.

    Sending a person to jail for days, weeks, months or years for wasting a few seconds of YOUR time is beyond harsh. You are all talking about class action criminal courts - no personal injury or victimization by any one person was all that great. Because a spammer can send out thousands does not negate the fact that the actual 'crime' (ya'lls word - not mine) any person suffered was minuscule as well as common place in everyday society, namely someone wasting your time with something they are doing, be it spam or talking on a cell phone and not paying attention.

    With citizens like you guys, who needs the institution of Big Brother - a lynch mob BB could be proud of (tongue in cheek - well, kinda but kinda not).

    No need for new laws to give us an even bigger prison population, especially when a spammer has unpunished counterparts in every element of society - those who waste your time with their actions.

    Judge not lest ye be judged. No doubt EVERY single person reading this post has wasted many people's time one many occasions through some sort of action or inattentiveness. Are you ready to imprison yourselves for the crime of wasting people's time, or is that just for some other abiritraily chosen schmuck who annoys you and you then separate your time wasting from? Y'all go lock yourselves in your room for a week to atone for your crimes . . .
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

      I wondered how much of this was tongue in cheek - I'm inclined to think that not much of it is.
      Maybe to some degree, but not much; at least not from me.

      Wow. Jail, huh?
      Yep.

      For spam?
      Yes. Jail. For spam.

      I read a post on this site from someone relating a conversation with a neighbor who was a direct mailer. When asked why he stuck with direct mailing and hadn't gotten into IM, his response was, "There aren't any spam filters in snail mail."
      But physical direct mail is an ENTIRELY different thing. It costs the sender time, money, and resources. There is real risk involved. Research is done. And...IF you misuse it...

      FEDERAL LAW SAYS YOU CAN GO TO JAIL.

      Hmm? Your argument kind of falls part there, doesn't it?

      So, why not at least have the same penalties for the virtual world as there is for the physical.

      Mail fraud isn't taken lightly. I know it wasn't your intent, but what you are really saying is that my original post doesn't go far enough.


      I guess we should lock up little old ladies who drive 10mph under the speed limit too?
      PLEASE! Let's!

      After all, she is wasting people's time, those following her, including vehicles that are working, like delivery trucks. Costing companies money, etc.
      It's about more than just wasting people's time.

      Should we all dial 911 when we find anyone wasting our time? That's a whole bunch 'o dialing in a day if you venture out in public.
      No, because that's not a true emergency, and I'm not saying spam is an emergency either. Also, you wouldn't call 911 if you found somebody embezzling money from your company, but a crime would still have been committed.

      Sending a person to jail for days, weeks, months or years for wasting a few seconds of YOUR time is beyond harsh.
      Aha! If it were ONLY my time, then who cares? But it's ALL of those "your" times that add up and cause so much damage.

      You are all talking about class action criminal courts - no personal injury or victimization by any one person was all that great. Because a spammer can send out thousands does not negate the fact that the actual 'crime' (ya'lls word - not mine) any person suffered was minuscule as well as common place in everyday society, namely someone wasting your time with something they are doing, be it spam or talking on a cell phone and not paying attention.
      It's always interesting to see how people try to justify spam. If you think it's okay, then that's up to you.

      With citizens like you guys, who needs the institution of Big Brother - a lynch mob BB could be proud of (tongue in cheek - well, kinda but kinda not).
      Are you saying spam is Free Speech? (I'm not saying you are, I'm trying to clarify.)

      No need for new laws to give us an even bigger prison population, especially when a spammer has unpunished counterparts in every element of society - those who waste your time with their actions.
      Again, it is SO much more than just wasting any one person's time. And full prisons is a very weak argument.

      Judge not lest ye be judged. No doubt EVERY single person reading this post has wasted many people's time one many occasions through some sort of action or inattentiveness.
      The "two wrongs make a right" defense? LOL! Anyway, I have never sent out BCE, nor will I, BUT if I did...then I believe my idea of punishment should apply to me as well.

      Are you ready to imprison yourselves for the crime of wasting people's time, or is that just for some other abiritraily chosen schmuck who annoys you and you then separate your time wasting from? Y'all go lock yourselves in your room for a week to atone for your crimes . . .
      Now who's being tongue-in-cheek?

      All the best,
      Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

      I guess we should lock up little old ladies who drive 10mph under the speed limit too? After all, she is wasting people's time, those following her, including vehicles that are working, like delivery trucks. Costing companies money, etc.
      Are these little old ladies also destroying the infrastucture, such as by blowing up roads and bridges?

      Are these little old ladies hijacking other peoples' vehicles and using them to clog the roadways?

      Are these little old ladies sneaking past tolls so that they can use a road free of charge for their own malicious intent, while others are paying for the upkeep of the road?

      If so, then you may have a point.
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      • Profile picture of the author wackiin
        You forget about the fuel a truck burns the longer it runs costing the company money .
        How about the 2 old ladies I've seen on i20 going the wrong way I'm pretty sure they where clogging up the highway.

        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

        Are these little old ladies also destroying the infrastucture, such as by blowing up roads and bridges?

        Are these little old ladies hijacking other peoples' vehicles and using them to clog the roadways?

        Are these little old ladies sneaking past tolls so that they can use a road free of charge for their own malicious intent, while others are paying for the upkeep of the road?

        If so, then you may have a point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

      Judge not lest ye be judged.
      So, would you prefer to live in a society in which criminals are never judged or prosecuted? Sounds delightful to me... :rolleyes:

      Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

      No doubt EVERY single person reading this post has wasted many people's time one many occasions through some sort of action or inattentiveness.
      You really need to go back and read Paul Myers' posts again - particularly the one that delineates just how much destruction and damage spammers actually do. It's FAR more than merely "wasting people's time".
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Kren
    This may be an unpopular viewpoint but sending email is free speech. The can spam laws are a violation of the first amendment. There are anti-spam programs available to block most unwanted email anyways, we don't need draconian laws when we already have over crowded jails and prisons.
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  • Profile picture of the author RWB
    Don't hold back Paul!!! I agree they should be punished. A fine and possible jail time, just not sure how that would be worked out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
      thinking of sending someone to jail for you DELETING a email is stupid.
      Well now, I ain't NEVER heard of folks getting sent to jail for deleting an email BUT I have heard of folks being sent to jail for spamming!

      Michael, I ain't so sure that what you is suggestin is the proper way to handle them there spammers. My suggestion would be to send them varmints up to the holler for a few days and we will shorely break them of the spammin habit!

      I am thinkin one wild boar, three honey badgers, six quarts of my special "anti-spammin sodie" and the hollers own Backdoor Brutus would have them spammers hollerin for "Mommy" in short order!

      One thang bout the holler... we shore do know how to be treatin folks!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
        Just in case that you havn't heard, there is national budget crises dilemma,
        Jail time here in California is being cut in half, and convicts are released too early.
        These are hardcore criminals ill leave that one to you're imagination.
        You still think spamers will serve time?
        Here in the holler we don't got a "budget" problem. Why do you think this place is called the "holler" anyway?
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Thaddaeus T. Hogg View Post

        Well now, I ain't NEVER heard of folks getting sent to jail for deleting an email BUT I have heard of folks being sent to jail for spamming!

        Michael, I ain't so sure that what you is suggestin is the proper way to handle them there spammers. My suggestion would be to send them varmints up to the holler for a few days and we will shorely break them of the spammin habit!

        I am thinkin one wild boar, three honey badgers, six quarts of my special "anti-spammin sodie" and the hollers own Backdoor Brutus would have them spammers hollerin for "Mommy" in short order!

        One thang bout the holler... we shore do know how to be treatin folks!!!
        Hey Thad Darlin'

        Does the Holler have any tar pits and big ostriches runnin' round?

        I thank it would be kinda fun tar and featherin those dabnam spammers!

        Sorry I don't remember if there is any of em or not from my last visit, but as ya prolly recall, I was a little busy bein serenaded, watchin fer unicorns while settin under the rainbow and checkin out that thar swimmin hole after being served lots of er, ah, your sodie water.

        Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author JennySweets
    I keep wondering why Gmail is so split personality on what it throws into the spam folder. I have 6 gmail accounts (1 personal 5 biz) and the way gmail will handle the same email across the accounts is ODD! time of delivery, spam flagging, etc - I have one account that throws HALF of what it gets into spam. HALF! Some of the lists are the same as I am on in other gmail accounts, and the mail gets through just fine..

    Then I get the most OBVIOUS garbage spam in my inbox!! (Like today, i was FLOORED at the blatant, dangerous looking spam hitting priority inbox" today!)

    Jail time sounds good, or at least - community service cleaning peoples actual physical trash cans LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
    Spammers are a prime example of how most of us have to live with the consequences of a small minority of people who just don't give a damn. Paul has already pointed out the cost which results from this. Every single legitimate IMer is impacted negatively by what these few people do -- they have and continue to cost everyone in the email marketing business and business in general.

    There's what you can do and what you should do. Some of us know the difference and others need to be taught by laws which unfortunately, often impact the innocent law abiding members of society as well.

    Or to put it another way...Hangin's too good for em! Burnin's too good for em! They oughta be torn up in to little bitty pieces and buried alive!


    How's that Paul?

    Regards,
    jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    In a movie trailer voice: "Paul Myers has managed to refrain from revealing his true feelings about spam thread after thread. But everyone has a breaking point, and somebody *cough*JoeRobinson*cough* slipped some extra caffeine into old Myers' coffee. There's a spammer among us, and Paul has found a bat. Let's see what happens..."

    *Gets out popcorn*
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    • Don't expect a huge drop in spam traffic unless Russia ever gets serious about prosecuting these guys. Which it probably won't, because so many of them are mafia.

      Their favorite tactic, by the way, is to hire virus writers who create botnets out of poorly protected computers that are mostly outside the U.S.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      In a movie trailer voice: "Paul Myers has managed to refrain from revealing his true feelings about spam thread after thread. But everyone has a breaking point, and somebody *cough*JoeRobinson*cough* slipped some extra caffeine into old Myers' coffee. There's a spammer among us, and Paul has found a bat. Let's see what happens..."

      *Gets out popcorn*
      I'll start the screenplay.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
      Sounds fair to me as long as they are thrown in a jail that also makes them do community type service during the day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Good luck with you're proposal,

    Just in case that you havn't heard, there is national budget crises dilemma,
    Jail time here in California is being cut in half, and convicts are released too early.
    These are hardcore criminals ill leave that one to you're imagination.
    You still think spamers will serve time?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

      Good luck with you're proposal,

      Just in case that you havn't heard, there is national budget crises dilemma,
      Jail time here in California is being cut in half, and convicts are released too early.
      These are hardcore criminals ill leave that one to you're imagination.
      You still think spamers will serve time?
      So send 'em to jail somewhere else.

      I don't know if spammers WILL serve time, but I think that they SHOULD.

      The "jails are filled" argument just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm serious. I try to wrap my head around it, but I can't even process how that's a plausible defense.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        So send 'em to jail somewhere else.

        I don't know if spammers WILL serve time, but I think that they SHOULD.

        The "jails are filled" argument just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm serious. I try to wrap my head around it, but I can't even process how that's a plausible defense.

        All the best,
        Michael
        Howdy Michael,

        I can't stand spammers either and agree that there should be some type of punishment, but I disagree with putting them in jail. If that's done then unless their earnings from spamming are able to be confiscated, the public (their VICTIMS) would have to pay to feed, house, clothe and provide medical for them for the duration of their sentence.

        There should be a different alternative.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    This may be an unpopular viewpoint but sending email is free speech.
    Newsflash, new guy: Cost-shifted advertising is NOT protected under the First Amendment.

    And for those who try to pretend it's only an email or two, and that the time doesn't matter... I hope you one day get as much spam as I would without the layers of blocking and filtering I have in place. Or that you put in the work to create a really useful asset and see it overwhelmed by these scumbags to the point where it's more cost to you than it's worth, and you end up having to throw away all that time and effort.

    I hope it's your identity that's stolen next, and your computer that's locked up so badly it costs you a couple of hundred dollars to clean it off.

    I wish all the evils spam has to offer fall on your silly, addled little heads, so you come to understand just what a plague it really is.

    Without the talent and expertise of thousands of programmers and technicians around the world, your email inbox would be absolutely worthless. If you only get a few spams a day, you have them to thank for it. And if you value any blog or forum, you need to remember that the content you see is only useful because the people who own them or maintain them spend their time protecting those resources and that value from the slime.
    What about the guys selling automation tools on this site?
    I don't make the rules. If I did, those people would all be simply removed from the site, immediately and without exception. As would all the people selling "manual" backlinking services and any other remotely spammy systems or services.

    A lot of it is already verboten here. See the rules in the WSO section.

    Mind you, not all automation systems are scumware. I'm talking about the stuff that is.
    This whole topic is nuts theres far worse people to be thrown in jail besides a spammer.
    Which spammer? Is there anyone worse than someone who sells fake meds to sick people, who buy because they can't afford the prices their pharmacist wants for them? Or the person who drains a single mother's bank account through phishing? Or the identity thief who costs a family their home? Those are real. And there are a lot more examples.

    This is not about a few seconds deleting an email or three. It's about very real and serious personal and systemic damage done by parasites on a global scale.

    And the folks who pay attention to this issue and see the reports can tell you: I am understating the scope and impact of the problem.


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    • Profile picture of the author wackiin
      Paul I am not talking about guys that rip off people bank accounts,identity thief's that is a different matter in itself I vote for them to go as well.

      I do not vote to send someone to jail for sending email there is to many worse crimes that we need to worry with like the nuts killing people would you rather we have room in jail for the nut that killed all the folks in the movies in Co
      Are tie them up with Email spammers.

      Fine um take money out of there pocket is alot better idea in my eyes.
      Attacking email spammers is a fine line there are alot of spammers and spam ware sellers and promoters here and that's what gripes my @#@#

      They want the services section and use it but then they want to send the person They hired to jail funny most cases you watch on judge judy they would also be sent to jail for having part in the act?
      also Most of the wso's and yes I'm guilty of buying quite a few lol promote spam tactics and repeat the same garbage over and over


      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Newsflash, new guy: Cost-shifted advertising is NOT protected under the First Amendment.

      And for those who try to pretend it's only an email or two, and that the time doesn't matter... I hope you one day get as much spam as I would without the layers of blocking and filtering I have in place. Or that you put in the work to create a really useful asset and see it overwhelmed by these scumbags to the point where it's more cost to you than it's worth, and you end up having to throw away all that time and effort.

      I hope it's your identity that's stolen next, and your computer that's locked up so badly it costs you a couple of hundred dollars to clean it off.

      I wish all the evils spam has to offer fall on your silly, addled little heads, so you come to understand just what a plague it really is.

      Without the talent and expertise of thousands of programmers and technicians around the world, your email inbox would be absolutely worthless. If you only get a few spams a day, you have them to thank for it. And if you value any blog or forum, you need to remember that the content you see is only useful because the people who own them or maintain them spend their time protecting those resources and that value from the slime.I don't make the rules. If I did, those people would all be simply removed from the site, immediately and without exception. As would all the people selling "manual" backlinking services and any other remotely spammy systems or services.

      A lot of it is already verboten here. See the rules in the WSO section.

      Mind you, not all automation systems are scumware. I'm talking about the stuff that is.Which spammer? Is there anyone worse than someone who sells fake meds to sick people, who buy because they can't afford the prices their pharmacist wants for them? Or the person who drains a single mother's bank account through phishing? Or the identity thief who costs a family their home? Those are real. And there are a lot more examples.

      This is not about a few seconds deleting an email or three. It's about very real and serious personal and systemic damage done by parasites on a global scale.

      And the folks who pay attention to this issue and see the reports can tell you: I am understating the scope and impact of the problem.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Paul I am not talking about guys that rip off people bank accounts,identity thief's that is a different matter in itself I vote for them to go as well.
        What part of "That's what spammers do!" are you not getting?

        Or is it okay for them to just waste a few minutes a day for hundreds of millions of people, because it's only a few minutes per person?

        Or is it okay to blast links and comments out to blogs to the point where what started as a dream and a passion becomes a thing for someone to dread looking at, just because each spammer only does a little bit of damage at each site?

        A single fire ant can't do you much damage, but a swarm of them can strip the meat from your bones in minutes.

        Or is it okay that honest publishers see their incomes plummeting because so many people are disgusted enough with email that they don't even open the stuff they asked for and want?

        This is who spammers are. This is what they do.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Kren
    I hope you one day get as much spam as I would without the layers of blocking and filtering I have in place. Or that you put in the work to create a really useful asset and see it overwhelmed by these scumbags to the point where it's more cost to you than it's worth, and you end up having to throw away all that time and effort.
    If you want freedom of speech you have to take the good with the bad. First came the can spam laws, next who knows? Will there be laws governing social networking? Selling WSOs (probably the FTC already covers that)? I am not arguing that spam is not costly. I am sure it can be. But letting Big Brother step in and legislate the entire internet, and how we use it, is infinitely worse.
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by Robert Kren View Post

      If you want freedom of speech you have to take the good with the bad.
      Based on what you've said in this thread and in another one, I think you need to brush up on the topic of "freedom of speech" before you comment on it again.

      Becky
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Kren
        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

        Based on what you've said in this thread and in another one, I think you need to brush up on the topic of "freedom of speech" before you comment on it again.

        Becky
        You may be right. Call me simple minded but this is my understanding:

        "The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government."
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          "The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government."
          [sigh] Do you not understand the difference between freedom of speech and postage-due advertising?

          Or the right of people to NOT LISTEN?

          Or the concept of private property not being the same as Congress making laws preventing free speech?

          Whenever someone defends spam as "free speech," my first thought is, "This is a spammer, or would be if he had the nerve."


          Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Robert Kren View Post

          You may be right. Call me simple minded but this is my understanding:

          "The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government."
          Now I'm a larger proponent then most when it comes to leaving the Constitution open for interpretation, but the reach you are making here is entering "dafuq did he just say?" territory.

          Please go read the first amendment again. Then reread it. Repeat for 24 straight hours. If after that time you still believe that any content spammers send out should be protected, I'll be more than happy to give you a civics lesson for just $47 :rolleyes:.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    This thread started out with the question should spammers get jail time. I say no. There're more important things taxpayer money should be spent on. I'm no expert on spam but believe the definition is unsolicited bulk email. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will point it out.

    The topic drifts to spam that's associated with felonious activity like the stuff below:

    Spoofing - Fraud - Criminal
    Phishing - Fraud, Larceny - Criminal
    Bandwidth Theft - Criminal

    Jail time for above because this stuff goes far beyond being just a nuisance, it's willful and malicious.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      This thread started out with the question should spammers get jail time. I say no. There're more important things taxpayer money should be spent on. I'm no expert on spam but believe the definition is unsolicited bulk email. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will point it out.

      The topic drifts to spam that's associated with felonious activity like the stuff below:

      Spoofing - Fraud - Criminal
      Phishing - Fraud, Larceny - Criminal
      Bandwidth Theft - Criminal

      Jail time for above because this stuff goes far beyond being just a nuisance, it's willful and malicious.
      ALL spam is bandwidth theft to some degree.

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
    Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. The only debate is about how long your arm and my nose can be and what we do with the space in the middle The idea of the utopian web is and always has been a myth, big brother is already here.

    And to add to Paul's point about the damage done...last year I was in Times Square while attending Ad Tech in NYC. I was hanging out with some co-workers when one of the street hustlers started up a convo with us. He asked what we did and when we said email marketing he replied: "Oh, you're the guys who spam me!" This from a guy who's hustling quarters in front of the Hard Rock Cafe...of course, he probably makes a damn good living doing it .

    When I travel to conferences and the customs agents ask me what I do for a living, they often make remarks or ask me if I can give them tips to stop spam. We share a laugh, they send me to the strip search room out of spite and life goes on. I'm not making this up. OK, the part about the strip search is made up.

    Perception is nine tenths of the law and those who spam create a perception that all email marketers are the same. That negative perception costs all legitimate marketers.

    Regards,
    jim
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  • Profile picture of the author trytolearnmore
    Spam is bad... but on the other hand you never know when that Viagra or a pile of cash from a Nigerian prince might come in handy
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    • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
      Originally Posted by trytolearnmore View Post

      Spam is bad... but on the other hand you never know when that Viagra or a pile of cash from a Nigerian prince will come in handy
      I am agreein with you! Where in the heck would honeymooners go if there was no Viagra Falls?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Where in the heck would honeymooners go if there was no Viagra Falls?
        That'un's easy. Mount Neverest!

        That'd be one o' them thar Him'll'lay-yuns.
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    • Profile picture of the author YoungAndOpulent
      Banned
      Originally Posted by trytolearnmore View Post

      Spam is bad... but on the other hand you never know when that Viagra or a pile of cash from a Nigerian prince might come in handy
      Yep. And all it takes is $5,000 from you to receive $100,000 in return. You couldn't ask for a better return. Those Nigerians are such nice guys...I wonder why they get a bad rap for offering people a huge return on their money. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Just a couple of quick observations...

        > There are a couple of posters in here who are definitely living down to their tag lines...

        > Re: Freedom of speech. Nobody is telling you, spammer or not, what you can or cannot say in your email. That's not the problem. The problem is the mechanism and volume of those you choose to share that speech with.

        Say whatever you damn well please. Just don't cause the kind of problems Paul has listed by spamming it all over the net.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          I had a server crash once, and I strongly believe that spam was a major reason due to wear and tear on the system from all the spam.

          Probably over 90% of the mail that came through to the server was spam. This is stuff recipients did not ask for and did not want.

          So, at least 90% of the server resources were being used to manage and deliver (or filter out) stuff no one wanted.

          Spam consumes hard drive space. It consumes bandwidth. It consumes system resources. And, the spam that makes it through spam filters wastes human hours.

          All for something that no one on the receiving end asked for, no one on the receiving end wanted and no one on the receiving end benefited from.

          Do these spammers compensate me, as a server owner, for my resources that they use for their benefit, and not the benefit of myself or my users? No.

          That's a lot of time and resources being spent on something no one wants.

          And people argue that you can use spam filters and whatnot. Well, someone has to code those spam filters. That takes time. Or, you can buy systems that will automatically learn what is spam and block it. That takes time and money. Plus, spam filtering still uses system resources.

          And, if you operate a mail server and pay for bandwidth, you'll have a better idea of what spam costs.

          Years ago, when I didn't have a lot of server ports available, there were times when people couldn't even login to check or send mail because all the ports were in use by mail servers trying to connect to send mail, which was mostly spam.

          The people that defend spammers or brush them off as a minor annoyance are likely people that don't actually see the full costs and effects of it. It's like arguing that trash disposal is no big deal because all you do is set out your trash on the curb once a week. They don't see what happens once the trash gets picked up, and think their effort in rolling out the trash cans to the end of the driveway is the end of the story.

          It's not.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    What part of "That's what spammers do!" are you not getting?
    Not all of them. Some build popular forums. :p

    Kidding.

    To others...

    Spam has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech stop at my property. You can stand on the sidewalk but you can't enter my yard. SPAM enters my yard so to speak.

    As to jail, it depends. Are they breaking the law? I'd say 99.9% do and they should get jail time.

    It's VERY hard to spam and not break at least one law.

    I shouldn't have to filter out email.

    Those of you using "verify yourself" systems should goto jail too. Not really but they clutter communication too.

    Garrie
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Garrie,
      Not all of them. Some build popular forums.
      No need for a "kidding." It's true. I don't believe Allen sent much spam back in the day, but his affiliates sure did. And this place was a spammer's haven until he got sick of it and asked for mods to volunteer. The first thing we talked about was cleaning out the spammers who were trading lists, exchanging tips, and selling spamware.

      Took me 6 months. The only reason they hung on was because so many new folks were coming in and made great prospects for their lies.

      Back then, spam was frowned on but not the type of evil it is today. And most of the early spammers quit when they realized the damage they were doing. Not to mention that most of what was sold via spam in the mid to late 90s was real product that actually got delivered when you ordered.

      Those of us who predicted where it was going got laughed at, told we were exaggerating, and accused of being anti-commerce Nazis. Among other, less savory, descriptives. And everything we predicted, right down to botnets, came true.

      But yeah. Spam was a big part of this place in the first few years.


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    • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Not all of them. Some build popular forums. :p

      Kidding.

      To others...

      Spam has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech stop at my property. You can stand on the sidewalk but you can't enter my yard. SPAM enters my yard so to speak.

      As to jail, it depends. Are they breaking the law? I'd say 99.9% do and they should get jail time.

      It's VERY hard to spam and not break at least one law.

      I shouldn't have to filter out email.

      Those of you using "verify yourself" systems should goto jail too. Not really but they clutter communication too.

      Garrie
      A good analogy Garrie. I wrote about that, comparing the inbox to one's front door a couple of years ago. Here's a snippet which applies to this conversation:

      The front door characterization of the inbox is just one reason IMHO why people tend to react so strongly regarding spam. It's not just that a spammer wastes my time, it's that they invaded my personal space. The virtual equivalent of a guy knocking on your door during dinner to sell you aluminum siding.

      The idea that an inbox is personal space might be up for debtate, but I would hazard to guess that more than a few of us have that perception.

      Regards,
      jim
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Paul,

    I put kidding because I don't really think spam built the forum. It might have helped at one point but it would have killed the forum if left unchecked.

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Garrie,
      I put kidding because I don't really think spam built the forum. It might have helped at one point but it would have killed the forum if left unchecked.
      Ah. Yes, you are correct.

      More than 10 years later, I still hear echoes of those days from the occasional old-time spamfighters I hang with in another venue. Fortunately, they know me pretty well by now, as I've been a member of the main one since right around the same time I joined the Warriors.

      If this place had not cleaned out the spam support, it would not have lasted. Or at least it wouldn't have gotten nearly as big as it is. Most of the bulker forums from those days are long gone. Most of the few hard core types left from then are on private IRC channels and Skype groups, if/when they communicate at all.

      The biggest organized group I know of any more is the loosely connected Russian Business Network, which is sort of a Soviet Spam Mafia. Very unpleasant and dangerous people.


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  • Profile picture of the author cardine
    Wait you guys still get spam delivered to your inbox? That's pretty retro. Spam has been going to my spambox since about 2004.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by cardine View Post

      Wait you guys still get spam delivered to your inbox? That's pretty retro. Spam has been going to my spambox since about 2004.
      Most spam does go into my spam folder, but some of it still makes it into the inbox. The other problem is that some legitimate mail always seems to end up in the spam folder.

      So, even though the spam filter still does a pretty good job, it's not perfect and I have to spend time going through all of my messages to weed out legitimate messages. I'm guessing most of us have a similar experience.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by JimDucharme View Post

        The front door characterization of the inbox is just one reason IMHO why people tend to react so strongly regarding spam. It's not just that a spammer wastes my time, it's that they invaded my personal space. The virtual equivalent of a guy knocking on your door during dinner to sell you aluminum siding.

        Regards,
        jim
        Jim, it's closer to that tin man finding your door unlocked and walking into your dining room and planting his sample case on top of your dinner.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Somehow I only seem to receive spam from India SEO companies and you can put remove or anything like that in the mail or topic as much as you want. They just keep on doing it. Very annoying.
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    • Profile picture of the author YoungAndOpulent
      Banned
      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

      Somehow I only seem to receive spam from India SEO companies and you can put remove or anything like that in the mail or topic as much as you want. They just keep on doing it. Very annoying.
      It's been said that unsubscribing from those lists lets spammers know the email address is active, which prompts them to spam it even more and sell it to others.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Originally Posted by YoungAndOpulent View Post

        It's been said that unsubscribing from those lists lets spammers know the email address is active, which prompts them to spam it even more and sell it to others.
        That is, on the average, not true. I've seen two actual studies that debunked it.

        It used to be true, but that was a long time ago, with a whole different sort of spammer. A sort that seems to be making a comeback, as it turns out, but it's not certain they'll go back to those ways of doing things with unsubscribes.


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  • Profile picture of the author aident364
    Your punishment is just, i was thinking of adding the time "prove ur not a bot" tests and email load times....
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  • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
    Buy punishing him, he only gets more aggressive. Next time he is out, he would device a method to spam more without getting caught.

    Only possible solution that he will never spam again is to ban internet connection to him for the rest of his life BTW, I don't know how it can be done.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    You guys are crazy.

    Internet marketers wanting to sentence spammers to jail?

    Cut throat much?

    PS: Who determines what's "spam" and what's not?

    Half of the WSO's you guys promote indicate some form of "spam" or another.

    (Is messaging people (in bulk) on forums and other services spam?)

    Be careful what you wish for.
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    • Profile picture of the author SShip
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      • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
        Originally Posted by SShip View Post

        If we didn't ask you to do so, or opt-in to your list to receive what you have to offer, absolutely it's spam.
        Then a significant percentage of this forum (especially WSO makers) should be seized! -trollface-

        Please detect my sarcasm here, unlike the stern viewpoints of my fellow warrior's I advocate Internet and technological freedom.

        The more regulation on marketing, the more difficult it is to market.
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        • Profile picture of the author davezan
          Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

          Please detect my sarcasm here, unlike the stern viewpoints of my fellow warrior's I advocate Internet and technological freedom.

          The more regulation on marketing, the more difficult it is to market.
          Without responsibility, transparency and/or accountability?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Half of the WSO's you guys promote indicate some form of "spam" or another.

        (Is messaging people (in bulk) on forums and other services spam?)
        Yet another person who has opinions on the rules but hasn't actually read them.

        Here they are.
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  • Profile picture of the author jaiganeshv
    Wow this is a creative calculation Michael, worth spreading across so there is some form of serious penalty started to impose on those big time spammers...
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  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    As long as there are morons, there will be spammers.
    Ain't that the truth!

    Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas W
    I challenge anyone here, that is an Internet Marketer to say that they never "Spammed" before.

    I know conventional wisdom is to associate SPAM with only email, but there is tons of WSO's out there teaching people how to SPAM google, Youtube, Facebook, Wordpress comments, etc. etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
      Originally Posted by Thomas W View Post

      I challenge anyone here, that is an Internet Marketer to say that they never "Spammed" before.

      I know conventional wisdom is to associate SPAM with only email, but there is tons of WSO's out there teaching people how to SPAM google, Youtube, Facebook, Wordpress comments, etc. etc.
      The definition of "spam" in some instances is more broad than people realize (and it's often thrown around erroneously)
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I challenge anyone here, that is an Internet Marketer to say that they never "Spammed" before.
      I can honestly say that I never did it intentionally, and then only by misreading the rules in a couple of commercial newsgroups back in 1995.

      Otherwise, nope. No spam, of any kind. No backlink spamming, no unsolicited bulk email, no forum spamming or Twitter DM spams, nor nuttin'.

      Pretty sure I ain't the only one here who can say that truthfully, either.


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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Thomas W View Post

      I challenge anyone here, that is an Internet Marketer to say that they never "Spammed" before.

      I know conventional wisdom is to associate SPAM with only email, but there is tons of WSO's out there teaching people how to SPAM google, Youtube, Facebook, Wordpress comments, etc. etc.
      Challenge accepted.

      I have never ever spammed before.

      Not by any methods described above, or otherwise.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Challenge accepted.

        I have never ever spammed before.

        Not by any methods described above, or otherwise.

        Terra
        It's important to remember the word "spam" is often ambiguous, and misunderstood.

        I'm merely making notation (and playing the devil's advocate) that the Internet community is opening a can of worms in being so quick to condemn "spammers". Surely one who engages in any online advertising can acknowledge the inherit risk.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          I'll cop to one incident of spamming newsgroups, albeit I didn't know I was doing it at the time. I plead guilty to cross-posting articles to several related groups, manually, one at a time.

          I was duly informed, in language polite and not so much, that what I was doing was not acceptable. I quit doing it, and never had another problem. This was about fifteen years ago, before the auto-posters destroyed the newsgroups.

          Yet another resource destroyed by profiteers that some here are trying to paint as 'freedom fighters'. What will happen when the same thing happens to email and then SMS and then... ?????
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

          I don't believe you.
          The fact that you don't believe us says a lot more about you than you probably realize.

          I have never used any of the methods you described, and have never told people to use them either; although, I find your need for weak justifications somewhat amusing.

          All the best,
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Ken,

            The US Government got one thing right when they passed CAN-SPAM. The use of the word "non-solicited." A lot of people use the word 'spam' to mean a lot of things, but enforcement types, whether governmental or private network operators, will give different definitions for unsolicited and unwanted.

            The distinction is very important. One is a viable and sensible basis for allowing people to choose, while maintaining the integrity of the carrier systems. The other is a recipe for chaos, if used as the basis for punitive action.


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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

          It's important to remember the word "spam" is often ambiguous, and misunderstood.

          I'm merely making notation (and playing the devil's advocate) that the Internet community is opening a can of worms in being so quick to condemn "spammers". Surely one who engages in any online advertising can acknowledge the inherit risk.
          Haha!

          I like your editing reason. Thank you for that and I'm sure that you and I both are glad that I didn't read the unedited version.

          That being said, I still don't believe proper lawful advertising is in any way at risk, inherent or otherwise.

          If we lived in a perfect world, there would be no need of laws for unlawful advertising, but alas, you and I both know that isn't the case.

          There have been unscrupulous advertisements from devious advertisers just about as long as advertising for commerce came into existence.

          It's just the way it is.

          Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
      Originally Posted by Thomas W View Post

      I challenge anyone here, that is an Internet Marketer to say that they never "Spammed" before.
      I'll challenge anyone here with a license to say they've never violated a traffic law before. That doesn't mean we should tollerate hit and run drivers.

      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post


      PS: Who determines what's "spam" and what's not?
      Aside from laws around the world? The people being spammed.

      Regards,
      jim
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    • Originally Posted by Thomas W View Post

      I challenge anyone here, that is an Internet Marketer to say that they never "Spammed" before.

      I know conventional wisdom is to associate SPAM with only email, but there is tons of WSO's out there teaching people how to SPAM google, Youtube, Facebook, Wordpress comments, etc. etc.
      SPAM is unsolicited commercial email. What you're describing are violations of a site's terms of use.

      And for the record, I never sent a single piece of email in violation of the CAN-SPAM Act since it became law. Nor have I ever intentionally violated a site's TOU.
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  • Profile picture of the author wackiin
    Ok I agree with yall lets put them and there counter parts in Jail
    so any of you that have ever used one of the None White hat methods to Rank your sites,videos etc you need to get ready to show up at the slammer.

    Thank includes Twitter spam ,Facebook ,Backlinks etc
    Are is it only email spam your worried about just let the others slide because Alot of you use them
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  • Profile picture of the author wackiin
    Yall musta been posting same time as Me lol same thoughts >~
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  • Profile picture of the author sandy3055
    I think that spammers are a part of seo industry as there are so many forums fill with spamming posts but you know it's not hard to catch them.
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  • Profile picture of the author wackiin
    Paul I Was sure you where one of the few that didnt,but Im also sure ALOT on here do.
    Any How Im getting back to work everyone have a good spamfree day.
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    • Profile picture of the author sigurdur
      I don't believe I have ever spammed, but I'm sure that people/companies have different ideas of what a spam is.

      All I can say is that I follow my own rule of always going for adding value to things, whether it is a blog post, forum thread, e-mail list or whatever.

      I will however sometimes add signature links or point towards a _RELEVANT_ article/blog post/thread, even if there may be affiliate links in it .. some people might think that is spam [the same people that think making money should be illegal]
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  • Profile picture of the author bigdaleln
    I think they should have their computers taken away sand banned from the internet.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by bigdaleln View Post

      I think they should have their computers taken away sand banned from the internet.
      Which leads back to my original suggestion. Haul them off to some deserted island with no outside net connection and forget about them. If you have a nit of a sadistic streak, you could install a self-contained network (think of AOL or its ilk before the commercial net) and let them spam each other until the system breaks down.

      Maybe they'd follow the Aussie model. Dump your criminals and other unwanted on an island and let them fend for themselves. After enough generations have passed, you might end up with another positive, energetic, productive country full of great people...
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  • Profile picture of the author joejeas
    I think your proposal is absolutely correct. 59 days jail would be fair.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    As long as there are morons, there will be spammers.
    I wonder how many people assume you're talking about the senders, as opposed to the recipients.

    Either way.



    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author samanthaelandon
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by samanthaelandon View Post

      I think they need to be punished, but probably not that harsh.
      What do you think would be fair?

      Do you think people who embezzle should go to jail?

      Does it matter how much they embezzle?

      I'm not saying spam and embezzlement are the same, but there are similarities. After all, they both cost businesses a lot of time and money.

      What about repeat offenders? Perhaps there could be a sliding scale.

      1st offense: 0.5 seconds (per recipient)
      2nd offense: 1 second
      3rd offense: 5 seconds
      4th offense: 1 minute

      The reason I think my proposal is fair is that it is based on the number of messages that the spammer sends. As long as a punishment is based on that, then I'm of the opinion that it's fair.

      Something like community service with fines would also be acceptable.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        The challenge with "per spam" penalties is that, especially in the days of botnets, there's no way to accurately know how much most of the worst of them send. Not unless you infiltrate the botnets' C&C systems without being detected. That would be no small feat.

        Then there's the problem of assigning provable responsibility. Even following the money isn't completely reliable, as these guys have pretty sophisticated means for laundering it. And, unlike the days of Wallace and Scelson and Ralsky, you won't often find the people behind the spam are also the ones behind the keyboards.

        Not to mention how many of them are in Russia, China, and India. Are any of those countries likely to extradite citizens for spamming?

        The only ones who are easy to find are the small fry.


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