If you "hide" the "duration" of the video, I'll close it immediately!!

70 replies
Few internet marketers think that they can compel the viewers to watch the
complete video if they do a "trick" and "hide" the duration of the video.

But here's a sad news for them...

Now, when I see that kind of video where I don't know how much time
it's gonna take, I'll close it immediately! Because IMO, that's the first sign
that I am going to "waste" a lot of time.

If you think your video really offers "value" then the "duration" doesn't matter.
If I get "value" and "learn" something while watching a video then I can spend
my whole day watching it.

Why someone will close the video which is talking something interesting and useful.

Actually, the IMers who do this "trick" know themselves that their videos are
complete BS. When they "hide" the duration then it means the length of the
video is way more than normal videos.

So come'on! People here are not the "kids" and you CAN'T "trick" them.
If you want me to see your videos then atleast let me know how long it's going to take.

Thanks!

EDIT: My purpose of starting this thread was NOT to generalize anything regarding the
way IMer should use to display a video on their sites. It's just MY opinion and the purpose
was to make IMers aware that not all the people like this technique.
#close #duration #hide #immediately #video
  • Profile picture of the author ichimoku
    I completely agree, It frustrates me when you don't know how long is left.

    I always have time to watch a good 2-3 min video, I think thats the optimal attention span for me
    Signature

    Let ME show YOU the secrets of the Worlds most Advanced Trading Indicator ichimoku

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6879960].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
    I love the ones that start with "give me 12 minutes of your time" 40 minutes later they lost a customer for life
    Signature


    If you are serious about online marketing come and Join our free community The Foundation
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6879963].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Well, that's nice. Keep in mind though that you are one of more than 7 billion people, and your opinion (which I share ironically) doesn't speak for the whole market. So this would probably be better served as a blog post since there isn't much productive conversation that can come from this. Petty arguments and whining is much more likely.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6879976].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    super warrior


    I know that feeling exactly.. but the strategy seems to work because more and more people use it.

    here are 2 strategies that I use specifically for this type of thing since I watch everything.

    1.) I use Internet Download Manager: the fastest download accelerator and download the video to my desktop temporarily ( super product by the way)

    then use Change Playback Speed - Variable Speed - Time Scale Modification of Audio - Enounce, Incorporated - Enounce and speed it up 2 or 3 times depending what I can get away with without it sounding like alvin and the chipmonks


    or


    2.) go to the page where the webinar or sales video is playing and right click and "view page source"

    then ctrl button and the find box opens

    then put in an extension like flv... or mpeg4 you should be able to find the video file location.. then copy that location in your browser and you should be able to watch the video with controls and all


    hope this helps

    eddie
    Signature

    Skunkworks: noun. informal.

    A clandestine group operating without any external intervention or oversight. Such groups achieve significant breakthroughs rarely discussed in public because they operate "outside the box".
    https://short-stuff.com/-Mjk0fDExOA==

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880020].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Joseph and Ken are right. Individual preferences do not play a part in a successful marketer's approach to selling. A successful marketer cares about conversions. If a split test shows hiding the duration converts better than not hiding it, which one is the logical choice?

    I could make a similar post saying how much I hate commercials interrupting my favorite TV shows, but common sense tells me the networks will do what is in the best interest of their bottom line, regardless of how much it irritates "me".

    You will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time. Once people realize this, they will have taken the first step to becoming successful in business.
    Signature

    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880041].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
      Brian is 100% correct

      this is why I have TIVO

      we met at the stompernet live in vegas the year before last

      you were just launching your google red carpet product

      always enjoyed your stuff



      lostarts: I agree with you but this is common. I have what I call a webinar morgue file which is categorized. everything what these people do.. ryeiss, filsaime, kern.. they put in thier most effort into the sales process so i look at these as educational in the event i want to emulate the process.

      they are the kings when it comes to selling so its best to learn from them without buying any of the products.

      I have a gmail account set up specifically for this. every launch for the past 3 years I have every email every video.. and all the components and archived.

      I even have the ole stompernet launch.

      better than any university degree my friend




      eddie
      Signature

      Skunkworks: noun. informal.

      A clandestine group operating without any external intervention or oversight. Such groups achieve significant breakthroughs rarely discussed in public because they operate "outside the box".
      https://short-stuff.com/-Mjk0fDExOA==

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880112].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      Joseph and Ken are right. Individual preferences do not play a part in a successful marketer's approach to selling. A successful marketer cares about conversions. If a split test shows hiding the duration converts better than not hiding it, which one is the logical choice?
      In the short term, this is absolutely correct. However, the results of a single test, or even several tests in a short time span, could give an undeserved confidence level. Such a test should be repeated at intervals to make sure that your market still responds the same way, or have learned other ways to circumvent your efforts.

      Once consumers understand that they are being held hostage by trickery - no duration, hidden or missing controls, etc. - they'll either ignore you or find ways around your tricks.

      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      I could make a similar post saying how much I hate commercials interrupting my favorite TV shows, but common sense tells me the networks will do what is in the best interest of their bottom line, regardless of how much it irritates "me".
      A friend of mine works for the Nielsen company, interpreting their paper viewer diaries and entering them into the company database. She told me that the number of people using DVRs to simply avoid commercials has skyrocketed over the last couple of years. Given a chance to leave comments, people complain about commercials being intrusive.

      I'm betting that as the DVR usage starts to permeate the habits of heavy TV watchers, you'll see advertisers shift their efforts.

      If you watch closely, that shift is starting to take place now. It used to be that simply getting your product seen in a TV show or movie was enough to satisfy advertisers. Now product 'bullet points' are being written into the plots and dialog of more shows.

      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      You will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time. Once people realize this, they will have taken the first step to becoming successful in business.
      True enough. A corollary is that assuming what makes people happy today will continue to make them happy tomorrow can be dangerous to your bottom line.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880204].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lostarts
    That's a smart workaround Eddie. Still though when someone chooses to remove the controls and video duration it says something about the marketer. They are trying to take your attention by removing options. No one likes having control taken away. When a marketer relies on tricks like this they immediately lose me.

    I don't understand how this technique is working. Do people really have so much time that they will voluntarily give it up to watch a video of unknown length? I know I don't.

    While it's a nice workaround that you showed everyone - and it might be useful for many other things - it's too much work for something of questionable value.

    As it stands I have to agree with OP. Perhaps this should have been a blog post, but I think it can have real value as a thread. Maybe someone who uses the technique can come and explain it.

    If the video has real value then there's no need to use gimmicks. I can't wait 5 minutes for you to tease me with what I might learn. When I watch something I want it straight up. What are you going to cover, and how long will this take? Anything else just isn't worth the time investment.
    Signature

    "We think in secret and it comes to pass. Environment is but a looking glass" - James Allen, As a Man Thinketh
    clear-mind-meditation-techniques.com
    Premium Landing Page Service
    Quick, Easy, Affordable Squeezepage

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880101].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Oh no, this guy says he's going to close the video!
    Signature

    :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880146].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
      Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

      Oh no, this guy says he's going to close the video!
      Hehe! Was it for me? Thanks, means you don't care losing a viewer who can be a
      potential customer. No problem. Carry on. It's a great idea to get save the bandwidth!!
      Signature
      WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
      Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880372].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
        Originally Posted by Super Warrior View Post

        Hehe! Was it for me? Thanks, means you don't care losing a viewer who can be a
        potential customer. No problem. Carry on. It's a great idea to get save the bandwidth!!
        Yes, that was for you. Hehe!

        You are only considering yourself here.

        Using this technique of hiding the duration of the video may actually gain visitors. I know that if I click through to a page with a video and I see the duration as more than 5 minutes long, then I probably will click away or close the tab. But if the duration is hidden, I may watch it, as I am not turned off by seeing a duration of longer than 5 minutes.

        Still, as I and others have pointed out, the opinions of individuals like you or I on forums is not as important as real data which can be collected.
        Signature

        :)

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880403].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
          Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

          Yes, that was for you. Hehe!

          You are only considering yourself here.

          Using this technique of hiding the duration of the video may actually gain visitors. I know that if I click through to a page with a video and I see the duration as more than 5 minutes long, then I probably will click away or close the tab. But if the duration is hidden, I may watch it, as I am not turned off by seeing a duration of longer than 5 minutes.

          Still, as I and others have pointed out, the opinions of individuals like you or I on forums is not as important as real data which can be collected.
          I was expecting something harsh from your side in reply to my post.
          Just judged from your 1st post in this thread. But you're cool.
          I admire the way you replied to my post.

          Yes, you're right! It's the 'real data' which can be used to decide the method
          which should be used. But still I think (just my opinion) one should know how
          long the video is.

          Thanks
          Signature
          WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
          Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880428].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
            Whilst I'm an advocate of testing and tracking your sales
            process, I also believe in having a list of things you will
            (and will not) do to your prospects and customers.

            Personally, if I put up a video then I believe in showing
            that I respect my visitor's time by at least letting them
            know how long the video really plays for.

            I don't give a feck if it decreases conversions. I think
            that how you treat people online and offline is important.

            Dedicated to mutual success,

            Shaun
            Signature

            .

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880464].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
              Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

              Whilst I'm an advocate of testing and tracking your sales
              process, I also believe in having a list of things you will
              (and will not do) to your prospects and customers.

              Personally, if I put up a video then I believe in showing
              that I respect my visitor's time by at least letting them
              know how long the video really plays for.

              I don't give a feck if it decreases conversions. I think
              that how you treat people online and offline is important.

              Dedicated to mutual success,

              Shaun
              Loved the way you shared your opinion.
              Thanks
              Signature
              WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
              Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880547].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
              Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

              Personally, if I put up a video then I believe in showing
              that I respect my visitor's time by at least letting them
              know how long the video really plays for.

              I don't give a feck if it decreases conversions. I think
              that how you treat people online and offline is important.
              Shaun,

              The more and more I read your posts, the more and More I think that we've got to partner up on something one day.

              Finally... someone who cares more about "their customers" then their pocket!

              Paul
              Signature
              **********
              It's Simple... I don't "sell" IM anymore, but still do lots of YouTube Videos
              **********
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882555].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
                Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post


                Finally... someone who cares more about "their customers" then their pocket!

                Paul
                I don't think it's fair to say that a business owner doesn't care about his customers because he chooses to use the most effective advertising method.
                Signature

                Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882591].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
                  Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

                  I don't think it's fair to say that a business owner doesn't care about his customers because he chooses to use the most effective advertising method.
                  "The" most effective... or the one that people *say* is the most effective. It would be interesting to check bounce rates (under 2 mins) on the two different options.

                  However, it may not be fair to say that "a business owner doesn't care about his customers because.... ", but that's not what I said. I said "cares" more. The person who cares *more* allows the choice. Hey, if it's a good video / good promotion / good offer, the customer will stick around.

                  But figuratively 'forcing' people to sit patiently and wait for the good bit ... archaic marketing in my opinion.

                  Paul
                  Signature
                  **********
                  It's Simple... I don't "sell" IM anymore, but still do lots of YouTube Videos
                  **********
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882639].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
                    Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post


                    But figuratively 'forcing' people to sit patiently and wait for the good bit ... archaic marketing in my opinion.

                    Paul
                    I never heard this argument about radio or TV ads. I've never seen or heard one commercial that tells me whether it's a 30 second, one minute, or two minute spot ahead of time.
                    Signature

                    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882695].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

                      I never heard this argument about radio or TV ads. I've never seen or heard one commercial that tells me whether it's a 30 second, one minute, or two minute spot ahead of time.
                      That just shows a lack of good-ol'-fashioned marketing sense on their part Brian. Those folks just don't know anything about split-testing.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882706].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Super Warrior View Post

            I was expecting something harsh from your side in reply to my post.
            Posting with the expectation of soliciting an inflamed response is known as "trolling", and is widely frowned upon, perhaps more so on a marketing forum. If you simply must do it, at lead dont make a point of putting yourself :rolleyes:.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880473].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
              Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

              If you simply must do it, at lead dont make a point of putting yourself :rolleyes:.
              No such intentions at all. I am a clear hearted person.
              So couldn't stop saying what I experienced.
              But you're suggestion is nice. Will take care in future.
              Thanks

              Widely frowned up, perhaps more so on a marketing forum.
              How do you know that? Where's the data? hehe, just kidding
              Signature
              WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
              Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880517].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lostarts
    Haha, ok Mojojuju - so you don't care if I close the video. Then what's the point of making that page? That's a lot of wasted effort.

    How many marketers do you know that make a living by having people ignore their ads?
    Signature

    "We think in secret and it comes to pass. Environment is but a looking glass" - James Allen, As a Man Thinketh
    clear-mind-meditation-techniques.com
    Premium Landing Page Service
    Quick, Easy, Affordable Squeezepage

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880168].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
      Originally Posted by lostarts View Post

      Haha, ok Mojojuju - so you don't care if I close the video. Then what's the point of making that page? That's a lot of wasted effort.
      I don't know if I care if you close the video or not. I don't even think I should care about caring about it.

      My decision to show the duration of the video would come from aggregate data from testing with and without it, and not from individual comments on a marketing forum. Sometimes data suggests things that are counterintuitive and go against impulse, but data is more trustworthy than anectdote or opinion.

      Originally Posted by lostarts View Post

      How many marketers do you know that make a living by having people ignore their ads?
      A rhetorical question, I understand. But I think this question presupposes that hiding the time on a video causes people to ignore the video, and that's something I'm not sure is true. Nobody of course makes money by having people ignore their marketing actions. I'd be careful about assuming that people (the people who will buy) will ignore video because certain elements of the player are absent.
      Signature

      :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880228].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by lostarts View Post

      Haha, ok Mojojuju - so you don't care if I close the video. Then what's the point of making that page? That's a lot of wasted effort.

      How many marketers do you know that make a living by having people ignore their ads?
      Unless people like you are the minority in the situation (and as John correctly pointed out remain the minority), then you are of little consequence to the site/video owner. Too many people are hung up on the idea that their POV/philosophy is the one true way to view things.

      People like that make poor marketers, and in a broader sense make the world a worse place to live in .
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880247].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by lostarts View Post

      Haha, ok Mojojuju - so you don't care if I close the video. Then what's the point of making that page? That's a lot of wasted effort.

      How many marketers do you know that make a living by having people ignore their ads?
      People do ignore my ads. In fact most do. However, the way I do business all I need is a couple hundred not to, which is an infinitesimal fraction of internet users, and I'm stepin in high cotton.

      Come to think about it, that's even a very small fraction of Warriors.

      George Wright
      Signature
      "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880845].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Its well established, in the IM/GRQ markets, that hiding the controls converts better. Sure, it pisses some people off but as others point out, the key is the overall conversion rate.

    Now, what I definitely do NOT advise is stating a time in the video eg: "Give me 12 minutes of your time" and running way over that time. If you're going to announce the time, say the correct number.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880174].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
    Originally Posted by Super Warrior View Post

    Few internet marketers think that they can compel the viewers to watch the
    complete video if they do a "trick" and "hide" the duration of the video.

    But here's a sad news for them...

    Now, when I see that kind of video where I don't know how much time
    it's gonna take, I'll close it immediately! Because IMO, that's the first sign
    that I am going to "waste" a lot of time.

    If you think your video really offers "value" then the "duration" doesn't matter.
    If I get "value" and "learn" something while watching a video then I can spend
    my whole day watching it.

    Why someone will close the video which is talking something interesting and useful.

    Actually, the IMers who do this "trick" know themselves that their videos are
    complete BS. When they "hide" the duration then it means the length of the
    video is way more than normal videos.

    So come'on! People here are not the "kids" and you CAN'T "trick" them.
    If you want me to see your videos then atleast let me know how long it's going to take.

    Thanks!
    Just because you won't watch a video doesn't mean that everyone won't. What if you are in the 10%? What if the remaining 90% actually watch the video and watch it fully because there is no duration.

    DO NOT post something that's your opinion.

    Post something that you tested. Guess work and intuition is good BUT SHOULD NEVER COME AT THE COST OF LACK OF TESTING.

    I am tired of suggestions, opinions and free advice. I want data. Numbers. Results. Conclusions.

    Does anyone agree with me?
    Signature
    Digital Marketing Author | Speaker | Consultant

    Read my Blog: DigitalDeepak.com

    @ Bangalore, India.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880188].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
      I am sorry guys if I posted something that should've been a blog post
      because it's based on my opinion. Actually, I just wanted to let some IMers
      know that it's not a very good technique to "gimmick" the viewers even if I am just 1/100
      (surely, not just 1 out of 7 billion like one said above :p)

      Originally Posted by Deepak Media View Post

      I am tired of suggestions, opinions and free advice.
      Oh really? Then what is this? Another advice???? LOL
      DO NOT post something that's your opinion.
      I Want Numbers.
      So here you go: Don't post a video which doesn't show the duration.
      Because not all the people like it. You'll lose at least 10% viewers (acc. to you).
      If you get 1000 UVs to your website, then 100 people won't like it.
      Now, you've the numbers.
      Signature
      WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
      Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880341].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
        Originally Posted by Super Warrior View Post

        I am sorry guys if I posted something that should've been a blog post
        because it's based on my opinion. Actually, I just wanted to let some IMers
        know that it's not a very good technique to "gimmick" the viewers even if I am just 1/100
        (surely, not just 1 out of 7 billion like one said above :p)


        Oh really? Then what is this? Another advice???? LOL



        So here you go: Don't post a video which doesn't show the duration.
        Because not all the people like it. You'll lose at least 10% viewers (acc. to you).
        If you get 1000 UVs to your website, then 100 people won't like it.
        Now, you've the numbers.
        That's not advice. That's a statement. It is sad that you can't make out the difference between the two.

        And the numbers I posted are for an example. I never said they are results of my experiment.
        Signature
        Digital Marketing Author | Speaker | Consultant

        Read my Blog: DigitalDeepak.com

        @ Bangalore, India.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881461].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by Deepak Media View Post

      Just because you won't watch a video doesn't mean that everyone won't. What if you are in the 10%? What if the remaining 90% actually watch the video and watch it fully because there is no duration.

      DO NOT post something that's your opinion.

      Post something that you tested. Guess work and intuition is good BUT SHOULD NEVER COME AT THE COST OF LACK OF TESTING.

      I am tired of suggestions, opinions and free advice. I want data. Numbers. Results. Conclusions.

      Does anyone agree with me?

      If we challenge a person to bring facts to a discussion our onus is to then bring them onboard ourselves to counter the claim.

      Until then there's only 2 assumptions on the table; One that states people don't watch such videos and another which challenges that stance.

      Daniel
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882444].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author d3communications
    More importantly (and maybe already discussed)...is there any data on a split-test for controls vs. no controls on a video? I know some of the real big-time gurus remove controls on the video...I have to assume they've tested it out and found the no control option to convert better.

    d3.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880202].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kevin McNally
    I can feel your pain but the facts are people who use these must test their conversion rates and visitor value so it's up to them to split test and use the best for their business.

    It's also up to the individual to decide if they will watch a video with no controls, personally I skip every one, they could have next weeks winning lottery numbers at the end of the video but I won't hang around to watch.

    However, there must be plenty of folks who do watch them ? Each to their own as it's easy to assume things but we all think differently.

    The midnight deadline date script works in sales pages despite many people knowing it's a sales tactic but the mind does play tricks from time to time and creates urgency or a desire to watch the full video just in case .......
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880425].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author I-Geek
    From a customer point of view i was willing today to join a newly launched Kindle mastermind group by a fellow warrior and i came across such a video as the only thing in the selling page.About 10 minutes later the video was still playing toward no end so since i value my time too much to lose it watching boring already know bla-bla stuff about Kindle i've decided to close the damn page and thing(a video does have controls and time!)altogheter.

    Customer lost forever.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880583].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dmister
      While I can understand trusting conversions makes more business sense I completely agree with the OP. Trying to hide how long your sales pitch video is simply annoys me and means I stop watching after about 30 seconds or so. To me having to hide even simple things like video duration makes me suspicious and reduces the trust I have in the product/person.

      It probably is better business sense to see what converts better but I think respecting your audience/customers is more important and increases trust and long term relationships too.

      PS I know you don`t care if I close a video - but I always do and it puts me off the marketer too!
      Signature

      dmister

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880736].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Palusko
    The big names test it, no doubt about it. But I would argue, that many just follow the lead. And in the process, they are ignoring one of the most important factor that makes the video being watched - who posted it. The brand and name recognition of say Frank Kern has definitely a lot to do with how his content converts. Not to mention, that the niche you're trying to reach may differ from his. The only way to determine if it works for your product is to put it to test. Then again, in order to really test it, you need sufficient data, which usually translates in money you need to spend. Which leaves a lot of smaller marketers not do any testing at all. And the result is. that smaller products created by unknown marketers are being pushed the same way the well recognized marketers push their huge products. Hence the influx of the same style sales letters, videos, templates, language etc.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880696].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

      The brand and name recognition of say Frank Kern has definitely a lot to do with how his content converts.
      It seems most people are quick to think every mention of marketing is within the MMO niche. That couldn't be farther from the truth. MOST Intenet marketing is aimed at people that have absolutely no interest or don't know this subculture even exists. Those people are far easier to please than the folks around here. We all know the "tricks" of the trade and actively look for it. The rest of the world doesn't.
      Signature

      Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881120].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Palusko
        Actually, in my original post I clearly stated that you may be addressing a completely different niche than Frank Kerns while using the same tactics, which may or may not work for said niche. That being said, every niche has its own "Frank Kerns" that people in that niche know and recognize as authorities and listen to.

        Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

        It seems most people are quick to think every mention of marketing is within the MMO niche. That couldn't be farther from the truth. MOST Intenet marketing is aimed at people that have absolutely no interest or don't know this subculture even exists. Those people are far easier to please than the folks around here. We all know the "tricks" of the trade and actively look for it. The rest of the world doesn't.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881218].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Originally Posted by lostarts View Post

    ... when someone chooses to remove the controls and video duration it says something about the marketer.

    Lostarts,

    I'm very impressed with your well-reasoned response. Obviously, you're a smart marketer -- you "get it."

    Hiding the controls IMMEDIATELY throws up a "red flag" that tells your visitor to BEWARE.

    And it's unnecessary. If a video is long, but is interesting or provides real value, I'll watch -- no matter what the length is. It's NOT about length -- it's about value.

    Here's my rule...

    It's never a good idea to trick your prospects. "Tricking people" isn't a business model.

    To the contrary, you should do EVERYTHING you can to inspire trust and confidence. In a skeptical world, trust and credibility are the new currency.

    John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880746].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
    Cloaking anything that you are doing only serves to make you seem shady--Transparency in everything that you do and how you do it builds trust, confidence, and faith in your clientele-

    Remember the saying that honesty is the best policy?

    I end up telling people things that they don't want to hear, because I'd rather not BS them, and have to deal with the fallout later--it is easier to just be upfront, and lay the hard facts out as they come in
    Signature
    Letmeknowseo.comSEO News and tips From real SEO'ers!
    Linklicious- Get your links crawled, so they can count
    SEO Black Book By: R.L. Adams An Insider's Guide to the SEO Industry
    Glowing Reviews- Get your Online Business Reviews to STICK!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6880765].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Cesar Sampaio
    I particularly do the same but if the split tests are showing better conversions that way, more power to the marketers. We have no idea how large amounts of people will act if we do not test it ourselves.
    Signature
    A Step-By-Step Guide! Do Just This One Thing And Finally Make Money As An Amazon Affiliate
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881030].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author quiescen
    Hiding the time of the video basically says 'I don't value your time so please ... bear with me as I try and sell you something.' That's the metamessage and one I won't stick around for UNLESS ... the info is so good I can't wait for the next second of it to start.

    Do you know how many IM videos are like that? Not many.
    Signature

    Play Piano in Just 1-Hour! Free Lesson Shows You How!
    Online Piano Lessons by Quiescence Music

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881068].message }}
  • One of my mentors thought me this lesson it has made me a lot of money, I'm sure most of you will not like it, but it's true. He told me that what I think it not relavent, what they thing is the only thing that matters. So if I want or don't want the time on the video is not relavent, it only matter what they ... You get the idea. That hard thing is that 99% ask me, 1% ask they. I had to learn to join the 1% ask they, not easy.
    Signature

    Join Next Live Mastermind Zoominar 100% Real World Secrets to Get Up And Running. Are you Stuck? Don’t miss it www.MonthlyMastermind.org
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881168].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Food for thought while everyone is indulging themselves in yet another game of "I Smell Marketing"...

    Stansberry & Associates "End of America" video clocked in at 77 minutes.

    Masterfully written by Mike Palmer. Beautifully scribed (high-speed animated whiteboard illustration seems to have beaten the ugly powerpoint version).

    No video controls. Exit pop to long-copy version of the pitch.

    Well over 300,000 new subscribers @ $50/year for their newsletter.

    Just sayin'...

    Brian
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881281].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      No video controls. Exit pop to long-copy version of the pitch.

      Well over 300,000 new subscribers @ $50/year for their newsletter.

      Brian,

      The discussion is about showing (or not showing) the video controls.

      So those numbers -- although very impressive -- are meaningless unless you also tell us how they fared when the video controls were displayed.

      John
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881565].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
        Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

        Brian,

        The discussion is about showing (or not showing) the video controls.

        So those numbers -- although very impressive -- are meaningless unless you also tell us how they fared when the video controls were displayed.

        John
        Hey pal, long time no type

        I provided an example of one of the most successful video sales letter campaigns in recent history... one that was viewed millions of times and generated 8 figures in sales revenue.

        I'm surprised you would find their results meaningless.

        How did it fare with controls on the video? I don't know, but here's a safe answer: "not better than having no controls".

        Do you think Agora wouldn't have thoroughly tested putting controls on a video they're running a mountain of paid traffic to? I suppose it's possible... but I wouldn't bet on it.

        You don't have to be a complete dick about not giving viewers a scroll bar, either.

        Good old Kevin Rogers and Ben Johnson recently used an ingenious series of on-screen timers (in the video itself) revealing to the viewer what was coming up in 90 or 120 seconds, then counting down to the reveal of that info, over and over across the course of a pretty long VSL.

        Every time the video got to feeling a little "long" BAM, another timer appears to remind you of what's coming in just a few more seconds.

        So simple, and clever... and appreciated by the viewer.

        Surely we can all agree that what works best and what people say they prefer are often very different things...

        It's not disrespectful to control the pace and momentum of a professionally crafted sales presentation.

        But fobbing fools off on some bogus, hack-job video pitch is disrespectful whether you give someone control of it or not, right?

        This got long, fast. Out...

        Brian
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882068].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
          Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

          Hey pal, long time no type
          Brian, good to see you, too. (I miss hanging out on TMN.)


          I provided an example of one of the most successful video sales letter campaigns in recent history... one that was viewed millions of times and generated 8 figures in sales revenue.

          I'm surprised you would find their results meaningless.
          As I said, the campaign is very impressive. But without the spit-test data, we can't be sure just HOW MUCH much better it really was.

          Plus... we don't know the demographics of their list. Certain groups of people might be more inclined to be bothered by a lack of controls.

          What I do know is that if you DON'T display the controls, some people will be VERY unhappy. But, if you DO display the controls, you WON'T offend anyone (or, at least, FAR fewer).

          Not displaying the controls will be considered shady by some people. And, the thing is, retaining the trust of your prospects is valuable and important.


          You don't have to be a complete dick about not giving viewers a scroll bar, either.

          Good old Kevin Rogers and Ben Johnson recently used an ingenious series of on-screen timers (in the video itself) revealing to the viewer what was coming up in 90 or 120 seconds, then counting down to the reveal of that info, over and over across the course of a pretty long VSL.

          Every time the video got to feeling a little "long" BAM, another timer appears to remind you of what's coming in just a few more seconds.
          Very true. I know a marketer who does that in webinars. It's a smart move. Sort of like CNN. They hang around because of what's coming next.

          John
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882409].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      Food for thought while everyone is indulging themselves in yet another game of "I Smell Marketing"...

      Stansberry & Associates "End of America" video clocked in at 77 minutes.

      Masterfully written by Mike Palmer. Beautifully scribed (high-speed animated whiteboard illustration seems to have beaten the ugly powerpoint version).

      No video controls. Exit pop to long-copy version of the pitch.

      Well over 300,000 new subscribers @ $50/year for their newsletter.

      Just sayin'...

      Brian
      It doesn't mean that they made money by "tricking" the people.
      How much was the traffic on the website? What was the conversion rate?

      You said 3,00,000 new subscribers, right?

      But how many visitors viewed that page? Any data?
      May be 20M people viewed that page, in that case it's a terrible conversion
      rate.

      Style of the video plays no role in bringing traffic to your website,
      so don't say like they "hide" the controls and got 300K new subscribers.

      Thanks
      Signature
      WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
      Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6883545].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by Super Warrior View Post


        You said 300,000 new subscribers, right?

        But how many visitors viewed that page? Any data?
        May be 2M people viewed that page, in that case it's a terrible conversion
        rate.
        Did you just say 300,000 sales out of 2 million visitors is a terrible conversion rate? Maybe on Planet Awesome it is, but here on Earth, that is phenomenal.
        Signature

        Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6889980].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
          Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

          Did you just say 300,000 sales out of 2 million visitors is a terrible conversion rate? Maybe on Planet Awesome it is, but here on Earth, that is phenomenal.
          Ya, my mistake. It's a great conversion rate.
          But again, when we don't have traffic data, we can't
          say that 300000 opt-ins were great!!

          Post edited.
          Signature
          WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
          Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6890137].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            I can't remember a single instance where the presence or absence of a visible "duration" (or video player controls) has ever entered my mind when deciding whether to continue viewing a video or leaving the page.

            If I'm watching a video, I was either referred to it by someone I trust or found it on my own accord because I'm interested in the subject matter.

            Once the video starts, whether I stay or go depends solely on how good of a job the presenter does in applying the principles of A.I.D.A.

            If they fail at that, the only control I need is the little red x at the top right of my browser window.
            Signature
            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6890199].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
              Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

              Once the video starts, whether I stay or go depends solely on how good of a job the presenter does in applying the principles of A.I.D.A.
              Exactly.
              • A - Attention (Awareness): attract the attention of the customer.
              • I - Interest: raise customer interest by focusing on and demonstrating advantages and benefits (instead of focusing on features, as in traditional advertising).
              • D - Desire: convince customers that they want and desire the product or service and that it will satisfy their needs.
              • A - Action: lead customers towards taking action and/or purchasing.
              Signature

              Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6890218].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
    I got hammered when I replied to a similar thread earlier this year when I stated that it annoyed me not being able to stop or start a video - someone who had positive results from not allowing people to do so said too bad that his testing proved he made more money by removing that control factor so I was a bit hesitant to reply to this one.

    Agora publications is a multi-billion dollar publishing company that generally deals with investment newsletters etc.... so I am sure they have done much testing on the subject. I receive links to one or more of their videos on a daily basis.

    In ALL the videos that I can recall, Agora allows you to stop or start the video, however, relating to the OP subject, they "Do Not" show the timeline of the video and from what I can recall, they never did.

    So apparently the testing of this multi-billion dollar company has shown more results by not placing the option but I tend to wonder if they continue to run ongoing split-tests to see if it would make a difference.

    Personally, it annoys me not being able to see it as they may very well have subject matter that I would like to see/hear about but for whatever reason vistor, phone calls, leave for an appointment, dinner, etc. I have to close it out, I now have to start it up from the beginning and unless the portion I watched to that point really drew my interest, I may not take the time to do so or may have already deleted the email the next time I turn the computer back on.
    Signature

    GlobalTrader

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881326].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author andybeveridge
    Personally I would do what works. Someones bound to be pissed no matter what you do.
    Signature

    Become a Digi Warrior and join us in the successful Dig Warrior IM Academy
    Join us at www.digiwarrior.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881342].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I love the word choice in this thread. "Hiding", "trickery", "take away
    control", "lack of respect" ... really?

    Who said that a marketer was obligated to give control to the
    prospect. I always thought that you wanted to take away
    control from the prospect so you lead him along the path
    of your choosing. This is the whole idea behind not placing
    links in long form sales letters that could take the attention
    away from reading the whole letter.

    If I could 'force' the prospect to read my entire sales letter,
    without skipping, skimming or scrolling to see the price then
    I would. But you cannot do this with print but you can do
    it in a video.

    There is no deception there. This is just every marketer's
    dream come true--lead the prospect along an unbroken path
    to the order button.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6881620].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    The correct answer is to split test to see which boosts conversions best. But having said that, and being a video pro myself, I will say I personally will never watch a video without controls, and instead I always just use a video capture plugin (I use internetdownloadmanager.com, have for years) that lets me download the flv/mp4 to my hard drive, so I can watch it in my media player with scrub controls at my convenience.

    And as a side note, I just capture and save those to a c:\salesvideos\ subdirectory on my hard drive and never watch them at once; I just skim through the 10-20 ones I've collected each week during a 10-20 minute timeframe saturday mornings. Completely defeats the marketers' purpose; I would personally never ever sit there and watch any video for more than a couple minutes, ever. (even the best ones). I scrub and click around video content quickly.

    But, the correct answer is, we are not our customers and some people do just sit there and watch lots of video from start to finish (getalife, lol), so the marketing response is, TEST and show data and make decisions on what produces the most sales.

    Of course if you annoy your customers and they don't like those type of videos and tell you that, then I'd listen carefully, since your reputation is most important of all.

    (Brian, thanks - that's good to know re timers, haven't seen that (gota link?), sounds like smart approach since it keeps viewers engaged/informed)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882265].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    While we're at it, why don't we demand that marketers mention price at the start of the video (or sales letter).

    That wouldn't 'waste our time'... but I sure bet it wouldn't sell much either.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882477].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      That would probably depend on how appealling the price is in contrast to the benefit which would ideally be laid alongside.

      "For only [Attractive Price] I'll show you how to.....[AWESOME BIG BENEFIT]"
      might function perfectly well as a captivating headline displayed before a video are ontop of a sales page encouraging the audience to remain for the elaboration.


      Daniel
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882516].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Majin
    I don't this kind of video aswell, i close the page or i let it continue in the background if i want to see the end.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882567].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author adamv
    I don't like it when I have no idea how long a video is but they do convert better. I don't know that from personal experience but I am on someone's list and they actually said it in one of their emails. They said something to the effect of "check out the video on my site, you won't be able to pause it or fast forward and I know a lot of people hate these videos but they convert better." That's not verbatim but it was something like that.

    I'm not sure I would have shared all of that with my list but apparently these videos work.

    If I am only somewhat interested in the product because of an email that was sent I usually won't watch the video. If I am interested but pressed for time I'll download it with the DownloadHelper Fire Fox tool and then I can see how long it is, pause, fast forward, rewind or watch it later.
    Signature

    Get a professional voice over for your next audio or video project at an affordable price -- I will record 150 words of text for just $5.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882600].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jvreview
    Depending on the creator and the content, I may watch it when there's no time duration displayed. However, I'd appreciate if it's displayed when it's a video over 5 minutes.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6882811].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JEasy
      Videos that hide the duration are terrible and now immediately get closed and forgotten. Those things can run for 40 or 50 minutes! Who's got time for that? These people say the same thing over and over again. There's no escape! This nonsense can't be effective.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6883310].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    This post will take you 6 seconds to read. I mention this because I care about the people who read my posts.
    Signature

    :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6883584].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
      Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

      This post will take you 6 seconds to read. I mention this because I care about the people who read my posts.
      Atleast you can scroll down and read only that part which you want.
      You can even skip any part. I didn't hide the scroll bar.

      It's here =====>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      Signature
      WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
      Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6883591].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    I am a little confused on the direction of this discussion.

    I mean.. it's the sellers job to do what he can to maximize his rate of return

    correct???

    so the seller has the right to put out a sales video that has no controls and is 3 hours long if he wants.

    and it is the customers right to ignore the video

    or

    if the customer is a solution based individual looks for a workaround that satisfies his curiosity.

    you cannot think about trying to make everyone happy as you will always piss off someone.



    me personally I would use what works!!!

    does this make sense??

    but to get involved in a discussion on why this is bad.. etc

    seems a little odd to me

    eddie
    Signature

    Skunkworks: noun. informal.

    A clandestine group operating without any external intervention or oversight. Such groups achieve significant breakthroughs rarely discussed in public because they operate "outside the box".
    https://short-stuff.com/-Mjk0fDExOA==

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6885616].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas W
    This method works extremely well.

    You can't expect the customer to fork over $497 by fast forwarding to the money shot.

    This is how the seminar people do it. Talk about features and Benefits until you realize that it will be worth pulling out the credit card.
    Signature

    Established webmaster since 1998. Bought my first domain name for $70 and had to pay $1000 a month for hosting. It was the good life

    Skype: twool9
    Email me at thomasw9 ((((a)))) G mail

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6889993].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Thomas W View Post

      You can't expect the customer to fork over $497 by fast forwarding to the money shot.
      It's amazing how many people don't realize this.
      Signature

      Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6890136].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kommrad Khol
    People selling over inflated sales letters and videos don't care if an intelligent person reads/watches, because only idiots will believe they can make a million in a month and live in a condo in Maui with a private jet, and etc.

    Marketers with a flop product/service don't market to intelligent people, they market to suckers.


    Originally Posted by Super Warrior View Post

    Ya, my mistake. It's a great conversion rate.
    But again, when we don't have traffic data, we can't
    say that 300000 opt-ins were great!!

    I hope you're joking.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6890192].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Kommrad Khol View Post

      People selling over inflated sales letters and videos don't care if an intelligent person reads/watches, because only idiots will believe they can make a million in a month and live in a condo in Maui with a private jet, and etc.
      Nobody said this thread was about videos in the "make money" niche. It's about any niche where video could be used, i.e. health, home improvement, getting pregnant, whatever.
      Signature

      Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6890209].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
    It was a great discussion on the type of the video that should be posted on a sales page.

    What I learnt:
    - Do Split test and do what convert better.
    - Don't care of the minority of the people who don't like your video due to this "trick".
    - You can't sell people a high priced product without letting them know all the benefits
    and features, which is not possible in a "fast forward" enabled videos. So, snatch the controls from them.
    - If someone don't like your video and doesn't know how long it's going to take,
    you can lose him for life, so try to put a lot of value in your videos to keep your viewer
    interested till the end. Don't let him feel like he wasted his time.

    Well, this kind of discussion has no end, so I've reported the thread to mods to lock it.

    Thanks everyone!
    Signature
    WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
    Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6890215].message }}

Trending Topics