anybody into adult?

by ChrisByrns 79 replies
Hi y'all.

It's probably a stupid question but it's something that i really need to know:

What do mainstream marketers think of the adult industry? ..Have you tried promoting adult stuff? (..why not?) ..has it still this "evil image"?

Reason i'm asking is: personally, i make a living as an adult affiliate (well, ok, i also do a lil' bit of mainstream marketing) and recently a buddy of mine approached me, saying "i need some bucks, bro, can you help me out?".. well, i told him "you know what i do online.. i'm promoting p*rn and i make good money - i'll tell you exactly what you need to know in order to be successful in a month from now" ..He was like "err, uhh, mhh.. nnnah. well, perhaps that's not for me."
I said "IF you work, you can make 1k in about a *friggin'* month from now - where's the problem!?".. Same answer: "mmh, naaaah, can't you think of something else?"

But he couldn't give me just one damn reason!

So my question is: is he just lazy or do people still frown upon the adult industry?!

Thanks for your thoughts!
#main internet marketing discussion forum #adult
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
    People frown on it. Think about it. Would you tell your mother what you peddled online? From a webmaster's point of view, I don't see anything wrong with it. You are simply providing a service that is high in demand. Gambling is no different. But from a social setting, I imagine that you'd turn a few eyebrows if you went into how you made your money online.
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by Simon_Sezs View Post

      ... From a webmaster's point of view, I don't see anything wrong with it. You are simply providing a service that is high in demand. Gambling is no different. ..
      That's exactly what i think. And to be honest - my parents think the same =) (but they're very open-minded)
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    • Profile picture of the author Avery Berman
      I've dabbled in the adult industry... in fact I'm considering creating a higher quality serious site. However, that is not something I will tell the "common folk" who ask me what I do for a living.

      I'm a webmaster. I sell products online. I'm an Internet Marketer.

      You won't catch me saying "Oh, I sell images of adults engaging in consensual fornication!" That's the most technical way I could put it.

      My girlfriends parent's wouldn't be to proud.
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      • Profile picture of the author TOPGUN08
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        • Profile picture of the author Kate Carpenter
          Are there any women webmasters (oopps..webmistress) in this niche?

          I'm not in it, I wouldn't know where to get the 'content', but if I did know, I might dabble in it.
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          • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
            there are at least 5 women i know of.. prolly a lot more. in order to get content you need to sign up to a good sponsor.. braincash, nastydollars, realitycash come to mind. it all depends on the niche you want to target.
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          • Profile picture of the author jennstall
            Originally Posted by Kate Carpenter View Post

            Are there any women webmasters (oopps..webmistress) in this niche?

            I'm not in it, I wouldn't know where to get the 'content', but if I did know, I might dabble in it.
            Yep, I started out in adult. There are quite a few female webmasters in the adult industry.

            I switched to mainstream completely when I saw how much easier it was to get traffic and sales, but adult is more fun. My adult sites still make sales for me even though I have not touched any of them in over a year. I have one affiliate account that has really paid off in long term membership renewals for revshare.

            Content is easy to find. The sponsors will give it to you for free. Just do a search for whatever porn niche you want to promote and then look for the "Webmasters make money" link

            Best place to learn about adult marketing, in my opinion, is netpond.com. Everyone there is really helpful and I learned a lot of stuff that was easily transferrable to mainstream.
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            • Profile picture of the author LockDown
              Too much competition, legalities, and if most people knew that's how you made your living you could be shunned. It's a quagmire
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              • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
                I too have dabbled in them and still get the trickles of income from them.

                I think it is the general stigma.

                As for telling mom, lol, she knows, just shakes her head and rolls her eyes but she knows. Don't think there is much I could ever tell her anymore that would get a reaction, just the head shake. :rolleyes:

                Anyways, I think there are a lot of females in it and a lot of people who wouldn't touch it with a 100 foot pole (never mind the 10 ft ones.) Of course there will always be those of us who choose the path less choosen.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tristan Bull
                  I dabbled in it for a bit, I have to say if you are smart and take it seriously you can make a killing with it. I only tried it for a while and done amazingly well.

                  So depends on your own personal stance on it I guess.

                  Tristan
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                • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                  Without knowing the guy I can't say for sure, but it doesn't sound like he's lazy. It just sounds like he has certain convictions, and he wouldn't feel "ethically sound" involved in the adult industry. You know...more than the "I just don't want to tell my Grandma" feeling, but the "in my heart-of-hearts, I just don't feel it's right" feeling.

                  If you say there's nothing "unethical" about the adult industry, I won't argue, but I would say a person has the right to those convictions.

                  Now if a person chooses to have different convictions (such as it is ok to market adult content) then by all means, but I only think it's fair for someone to have the opposite viewpoint (providing they don't proselyte or condemn).

                  Does that make sense, or did I just ramble? It's late and my eyes are blurry...
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  • Profile picture of the author chriswight
    The adult industry definitely still has a stigma. Regardless of how many people own, watch and enjoy pornography, it still isn't exactly material for a dinner table discussion. The fact that sex is something most people prefer to keep private, means they probably don't want it to be part of their profession/income.

    Much like porn itself, marketing it isn't for everyone.
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    Chris Wight
    www.ChrisWight.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Zach Booker
    Just lazy like most people...he's scared of the thought of making money online because people have always said that its not a 'good way' to earn a living.
    Because most people say think making money online=scams
    And when you add in porn it sorta makes for a combo that no one wants to touch
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    • Profile picture of the author chriswight
      I don't he's lazy, just uptight
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      Chris Wight
      www.ChrisWight.com

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      • Profile picture of the author pjs
        I own a very popular adult themed site. I never bring it up, not because I'm embarassed (I'm not) but because it never specifically comes up. I usually say the truth when people are "amazed" that I work from home.. I write software for companies and market products online.. If they want more detail I'll get into it with them, but that hardly happens.
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        • Profile picture of the author Melody
          Not only are there many of us women in the industry but there are even several groups for women webmasters in the adult arena. I have been on the payment processing side of adult since before the internet came along - and online gambling since 1996 - and the % of women webmasters in the adult sector is much higher than the gaming side, even on the affiliate side where entry cost is not such a barrier (and yes, I go to the conferences as well)

          If you want to check out a couple of excellent forums in the adult arena, go to ynot.com and xbiz.com - great resources for affiliate programs, white label, etc
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          Watch this space for great things coming soon ;-)

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  • Profile picture of the author Muhammad Jalloh
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post


    I said "IF you work, you can make 1k in about a *friggin'* month from now - where's the problem!?".. Same answer: "mmh, naaaah, can't you think of something else?"

    But he couldn't give me just one damn reason!

    So my question is: is he just lazy or do people still frown upon the adult industry?!

    Thanks for your thoughts!
    Hi Chris,

    I agree with your friend 100%. Not because I am lazy, but because I am a Muslim.

    I will NEVER 'dabble'-whether as an affiliate, webmaster or sponsor therein- into the gambling, dating or the "adult" niches.

    It is just not my thing. I would rather work for minimum wage than associate myself with them, not to talk of making a livelihood out of them.

    Not just my thing. (I think I already said that.) Just imagine having a guy with a name like mine as the webmaster of a porn site.:rolleyes:

    ~Muhammad

    PS: I understand it is probably 'realistic' for a man to be in this industry, but why would a lady? Wouldn't you feel uncomfortable or being considered 'loose' or 'easy to get,' especially when you attend those conventions? (No offense intended; just curious)
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    • Profile picture of the author 2bwealthy
      as long as things are legal then there's nothing wrong in doing it. however, it goes back to what beliefs you keep. meaning for me I wouldn't do it, just something I wouldn't be comfortable in doingit , but I wouldnt frown upon someone esle in this industry.
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      • Profile picture of the author joshbond
        I've got a friend that made it pretty big in adult back in the late ninties before selling out and moving on to other things. (anyone remember P.K.?)
        Even though its been 8+ years since he was involved in it, it still overshadows a lot of the things he does online and his name is still tied to it if you do searches.

        It really comes down to a personal choice and if you are ok with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author jennstall
      Originally Posted by Muhammad Jalloh View Post

      PS: I understand it is probably 'realistic' for a man to be in this industry, but why would a lady? Wouldn't you feel uncomfortable or being considered 'loose' or 'easy to get,' especially when you attend those conventions? (No offense intended; just curious)
      I don't attend conventions, but if I were interested in that sort of thing I certainly wouldn't feel uncomfortable. Everyone seems just as businesslike on the adult side of the fence as they do on the mainstream, but I'm pretty certain that I'm just as likely to be hit on at a mainstream marketing convention as I would be at an adult one. The imbalance between the number of men and women at industry events just about guarantees it.

      As for what other people consider me to be, I do not concern myself with other people's opinions about me. You don't need to promote porn for idiots to make assumptions about your sexual behaviour.
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      • Profile picture of the author pbadie
        All interesting thoughts, but you've got to give those guys their due credit. They were way ahead of the curve on the internet and are still way ahead. The direct mail opp pedlers of the 70's 80's & early nineties still haven't come close to the staggering traffic, and money generated by porn. Google and Ebay are its only rivals.

        Pat
        Here's a "clean" opp: Affiliate Programs Rock! I'm Living Proof.
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      • Profile picture of the author Muhammad Jalloh
        Originally Posted by jennstall View Post

        I don't attend conventions, but if I were interested in that sort of thing I certainly wouldn't feel uncomfortable. Everyone seems just as businesslike on the adult side of the fence as they do on the mainstream, but I'm pretty certain that I'm just as likely to be hit on at a mainstream marketing convention as I would be at an adult one. The imbalance between the number of men and women at industry events just about guarantees it.

        As for what other people consider me to be, I do not concern myself with other people's opinions about me. You don't need to promote porn for idiots to make assumptions about your sexual behaviour.
        Jennstall,

        Thank you very much for the response. Cleared up some "clouds" in my head.

        I agree with you that "idiots" will still make assumptions about your sexual behavior whether or not you work in the "mainstream" environment. I work (part-time) in a "corporate" firm and so I know that "professional behavior" is pretty nothing short of hypocrisy. I know what goes on around me between co-workers. It all boils down to one's personal moral preferences.

        That you are in a "mainstream" environment does not, in any way, mean that you won't be targeted, hissed at or even sometimes harassed by a male chauvinist. The political and economic landscapes of nations everywhere attest to that.

        However, the reason that I was particularly intrigued with women participating in and attending events in the adult industry was because, unlike the "mainstream" industries, here sex is the commodity that is sold and women are the main attractions or "service providers" here. If you consider the fact probably most of the "consumers" of these products are men, you will know that (in my opinion) a woman may be more exposed to embarrassing gazes and there would be a higher risks and incidences of harassment when they find themselves in such circles.

        But again, I am not an insider; I am just making points of what common sense and conventional men-women relationships and the reality of "male chauvinism" provides.

        I hope I did not misrepresent my thoughts herein.

        ~Muhammad
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        • Profile picture of the author pmore
          I'm way into the adult thing! It's how I first learned how to set up hosting, domains, websites, etc.

          The profits were slow in the beginning, but once you start focusing on the right activities it can be very profitable.

          I do think there's a bit more of a learning curve in the adult industry though - as compared to niche marketing... just my opinion.
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          • Profile picture of the author BuddyT
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            • Profile picture of the author Phil Jacobson
              Where do you market this stuff? PPC comes to mind. But how about social networking sites (is that the word, you know facebook and stuff).

              Do you do articles or ezines?

              Phil
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              • Profile picture of the author wasbee
                Whether adult or porn,there is nothing i found bad indulging in it.Business is business.
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

    Hi y'all.

    It's probably a stupid question but it's something that i really need to know:

    What do mainstream marketers think of the adult industry? ..Have you tried promoting adult stuff? (..why not?) ..has it still this "evil image"?

    Reason i'm asking is: personally, i make a living as an adult affiliate (well, ok, i also do a lil' bit of mainstream marketing) and recently a buddy of mine approached me, saying "i need some bucks, bro, can you help me out?".. well, i told him "you know what i do online.. i'm promoting p*rn and i make good money - i'll tell you exactly what you need to know in order to be successful in a month from now" ..He was like "err, uhh, mhh.. nnnah. well, perhaps that's not for me."
    I said "IF you work, you can make 1k in about a *friggin'* month from now - where's the problem!?".. Same answer: "mmh, naaaah, can't you think of something else?"

    But he couldn't give me just one damn reason!

    So my question is: is he just lazy or do people still frown upon the adult industry?!

    Thanks for your thoughts!


    I've been invovled in the adult industry since the age of 18...when I use to pitch Vivid Video VHS tapes via the phone---- to video stores more then willing to cough up over $50 bucks for the latest Ginger Lynn release.

    That was the late 1980's.

    Flash forward and today..50 bucks can buy you a case of VHS tapes....which just proves that glutting any market doesn't necessarily increase value.

    I have never pushed an adult agenda on this forum other then my signature.....because while I will NEVER be ashamed of my industry...I also realize that this aint my turf...and I think it comes down to a matter of respect.

    With that said.....I'm a content producer. I produce the stuff that goes on the sites.

    Never was smart enough to maximize the adult affilliate side of the biz....and I have people run that for me....who I'm sure are robbing me blind....but hey...there's enough money in this industry thtat I don't lose too much sleep over "the count."

    I can say in all honesty....I've never been screwed by someone in the industry (except on tape)...... but have been screwed by a lot of self righteous business people who claim to hate porn.

    Funny how that works, Huh.

    To be honest, I have made life long friends via the adult industry....and I would never sell it out for the mainstream. Or bash it behinds it's back...while secretly watching and/or profiting from it...cuz Vinnie here aint ever gonna be called no hypocrite.

    It's a tough industry....and you'se better have a good adult industry attorney keepin' up with a never ending change in community standards and 2257 laws.

    I do.

    xxx Vegas Vince
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    • Profile picture of the author flnz400
      Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post

      I can say in all honesty....I've never been screwed by someone in the industry (except on tape)
      LMFAO Dude, that was funny.
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  • Profile picture of the author woah316
    i think it takes a lil more start up money to break into the adult industry than other industries.. but if you can do something unique and set yourself apart, of course you can be real profitable!
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry M.
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

    Hi y'all.

    It's probably a stupid question but it's something that i really need to know:

    What do mainstream marketers think of the adult industry? ..Have you tried promoting adult stuff? (..why not?) ..has it still this "evil image"?

    Reason i'm asking is: personally, i make a living as an adult affiliate (well, ok, i also do a lil' bit of mainstream marketing) and recently a buddy of mine approached me, saying "i need some bucks, bro, can you help me out?".. well, i told him "you know what i do online.. i'm promoting p*rn and i make good money - i'll tell you exactly what you need to know in order to be successful in a month from now" ..He was like "err, uhh, mhh.. nnnah. well, perhaps that's not for me."
    I said "IF you work, you can make 1k in about a *friggin'* month from now - where's the problem!?".. Same answer: "mmh, naaaah, can't you think of something else?"

    But he couldn't give me just one damn reason!

    So my question is: is he just lazy or do people still frown upon the adult industry?!

    Thanks for your thoughts!
    I would run business in several niches and only tell
    people that I am making money from the "healthy"
    niches such as Martial Arts etc...

    I don't run porn, but I do run a Dating Site, and
    even that, I don't tell my friends that's where
    I make my money, instead, I show them another
    website of mine which is about Anti-Aging and
    tell them that I make all my money from this
    market.

    After all.....teaching people how to date to make
    a living isn't something I am particularly proud
    of yet somehow...most people don't understand
    how good a marketer you have to be to thrive
    in that market and would just think I am
    fooling around and making "illegitimate money"
    by teaching people these skills.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Terry M. View Post

      I don't run porn, but I do run a Dating Site, and
      even that, I don't tell my friends that's where
      I make my money, instead, I show them another
      website of mine which is about Anti-Aging and
      tell them that I make all my money from this
      market.
      Okay, someone clue me in here. What's embarrassing about running a dating site? And, by dating site, I'm assuming you're talking about a dating site, and NOT some sort of escort service or prostitution ring.
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  • Personally, I don't. But most people do openly. I make great money online and had a chance to make money promoting p*rn, but it was not for me. I have a hard enough time making people believe I make my living on the internet.

    Ed
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Tuggle
      Porn...
      1. Does it have an "evil image?" Obviously not evil enough to keep it from being incredibly lucrative.
      2. Is there easy money to be made? Obviously, yes.
      3. Is it frowned upon? Preachers and family groups rail against it. Interestingly, a few years ago after a large pastor's conference concluded in a major city, news came out that many attendees had paid for video porn in their hotel rooms. So, publicly it is frowned up but privately it is making money for those who market and sell it.
      4. Does it contribute anything positive to the lives of human beings? Only money to those who sell it.
      5. Does it contribute to the breakup of marriages and families? Yes.
      6. Does it lead to sex crimes? Yes, see James Dobson's interview of Ted Bundy before his execution.
      7. Does it demean women? Yes.
      8. Is it harmful to young people who have easy internet access? Yes.
      9. Is it legal? Yes.
      10. Is it evil. Yes.
      11. Are there temporal and eternal consequences? Yes.
      12. Is it addictive? Yes.
      13. Is it a healthy addiction? No.
      14. Are there more important things than money? Yes.

      ** I am saddened by this thread. I am unable to spend very much time with IM because I am a full-time health care professional. One reason I enjoy this forum is the people. I don't get to post very much but I have grown to really like and respect many of you by reading and learning from your threads. You are a very helpful and giving group. In the back of my mind I've wondered if the really successful Internet Marketers were in to porn. I chose to think that most weren't. In fact I thought those that were would never participate in a quality forum like WF. Well, my bubble is burst. I'll survive. In health care, I've known very many successful and wealthy people. They gained the cash and lost everything precious in the process. They lost their spouses, kids, and friends to be slaves to the dollar. This is very short-sighted. You will never go wrong by adding value to people's lives. Porn is destructive. Please consider the consequences in other's lives just to make a fistful of dollars that you will one day leave behind.

      Many rich blessings to all of you,
      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Jakehyten
        "Anybody into adult?"

        Hell YEAH. I belong to like 15 membership sites!
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      • Profile picture of the author jennstall
        Originally Posted by rootdoc View Post

        Porn...
        Well, my bubble is burst. I'll survive.
        Guess what? Not only are some Warriors either selling porn or viewing porn, but so are your neighbors, friends and family members. And guess what else? You can't tell the difference between the people who do and the people who don't.

        Animal cruelty is a far better indicator of who is likely to turn out a serial killer than porn is.

        I'm actually amazed it took this long for someone to post a scolding about how the rest of us are unethical, immoral and likely to become Ted Bundy LOL
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        • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
          whow. what a twist this thread took..

          rootdoc:
          take it easy, sexuality is all around and i can tell you this.. just because someone's promoting (or enjoying) adult related material doesn't mean he or she's a bad person.
          Relax - it's just sex. It's fun!

          Regarding my initial post.. i asked my buddy again (and again) and it looks like he's just not comfortable with this business (he told me: "even if i make money, i couldn't ever tell my parents what i do and that would create barriers in my life.").
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author Muhammad Jalloh
            Steve,

            Input much appreciated. I agree with you 100%.

            Jennstall,

            Rootdoc was referring to porn increasing the possibility of committing sex crimes not serial killing, I think. See #6 on his list.
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            • Profile picture of the author jennstall
              Ted Bundy was a serial killer.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steve Tuggle
                Bundy was both. I would only ask, not scold, those of you who are marketing pornography to consider some of the final words of Bundy:

                Ted Bundy:
                "Pornography can reach in and snatch a kid out of any house today. It snatched me out of my home 20 or 30 years ago. As diligent as my parents were, and they were diligent in protecting their children, and as good a Christian home as we had, there is no protection against the kinds of influences that are loose in a society that tolerates...."

                Ted Bundy:
                "I’m no social scientist, and I don’t pretend to believe what John Q. Citizen thinks about this, but I’ve lived in prison for a long time now, and I’ve met a lot of men who were motivated to commit violence. Without exception, every one of them was deeply involved in pornography - deeply consumed by the addiction. The F.B.I.’s own study on serial homicide shows that the most common interest among serial killers is pornographers. It’s true."

                Ted Bundy:
                "I don’t want to die; I won’t kid you. I deserve, certainly, the most extreme punishment society has. And I think society deserves to be protected from me and from others like me. That’s for sure. What I hope will come of our discussion is that I think society deserves to be protected from itself. As we have been talking, there are forces at loose in this country, especially this kind of violent pornography, where, on one hand, well-meaning people will condemn the behavior of a Ted Bundy while they’re walking past a magazine rack full of the very kinds of things that send young kids down the road to being Ted Bundys. That’s the irony."

                jennstall, I certainly did not mean to scold or condemn. My point really is, Come let us reason together. IM people are some of the brightest and most gifted people I've come in contact with. And I think I've come in contact with some of the smartest professsionals around. Can't IM rise above porn and be used to improve our culture? I really think so. I could never look down on, judge, or condemn any other human being.

                Peace,
                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author jennstall
                  Originally Posted by rootdoc View Post

                  Bundy was both. I would only ask, not scold, those of you who are marketing pornography to consider some of the final words of Bundy:
                  Sorry, but I don't consider the final words of a serial killer to mean anything significant. It is only natural that someone like that would look for something to blame besides the fact that he was a heartless monster who got pleasure out of raping and murdering people.

                  Anecdotal evidence about porn shared with us by murderers, rapists and other criminals is simply that -- anecdotal and highly suspect when you consider the source. It is not scientific and there has never been any study done that proves a causal relationship between non-violent porn and crime. In fact, statistics suggest the opposite.

                  And seriously, everything you've written is judgmental. If you weren't being judgmental then there would be no reason for you to be "saddened" and you wouldn't feel it necessary to encourage people to "rise above" and you certainly wouldn't assume that we're just in it for a "fistful of dollars". Don't kid yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Carlsbadd
        Originally Posted by rootdoc View Post

        Porn...


        ** I am saddened by this thread. I am unable to spend very much time with IM because I am a full-time health care professional. One reason I enjoy this forum is the people. I don't get to post very much but I have grown to really like and respect many of you by reading and learning from your threads. You are a very helpful and giving group. In the back of my mind I've wondered if the really successful Internet Marketers were in to porn. I chose to think that most weren't. In fact I thought those that were would never participate in a quality forum like WF. Well, my bubble is burst. I'll survive. In health care, I've known very many successful and wealthy people. They gained the cash and lost everything precious in the process. They lost their spouses, kids, and friends to be slaves to the dollar. This is very short-sighted. You will never go wrong by adding value to people's lives. Porn is destructive. Please consider the consequences in other's lives just to make a fistful of dollars that you will one day leave behind.


        Steve
        Whatever drama queen, This forum is a exchange of ideas and the focus is marketing and making money at it.
        You seem to have glossed over the posts in this thread about the women that are involved in the adult business on the business side, not the acting side.( which is also a choice and a business)
        Jena Jammison has done very well for herself marketing her products.

        I also get pretty pissed when someone like you takes a stand that the adult industry is demeaning to women and therefore bad for society.

        I urge you to read the September issue of Marie Claire Magazine, it might be sitting in one of your waiting rooms in the health care industry. There is a wonderful story about a young woman who decided one day to become a call girl at the bunny ranch, she is currently learning more about marketing and reading books about the art of the sale.

        Marie Claire and just about every magazine on the checkout stand at your grocery store has sex stories or articles ( well maybe not Everyday with Rachel Ray) and these are all magazines that are 75% models pushing the latest fashions and articles to improve your sex life.
        Just look at the covers and see the tag lines.

        Great Skin in 9 days (without $500 creams)
        MALE SLUTS.....and why we fall for them
        DRESS SEXY....at any age

        Taken from Marie Claire Sept 08, Glamour AUG 08, In Style makeover fall edition.


        SEX SELLS


        That does not equate to internet marketers that are involved in adult content do not ad values to peoples lives.

        I have never met Vegas Vinnie or even know him on a personal level, but I would guess that in the real world that if I asked him for a favor he would be the type of person to help without asking for something in return. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

        If you happen to be curious as to how I know so much about women's magazines it's because my wife has a bunch of subs, so many that I started a website about it.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimG
          Personally, I think his response stems from the fact that he is uncomfortable in going into that niche not due to his own inhabitions or because he is lazy but based on the fact that he is probably more concerned with what other people (friends, families and neighbors) will think if they were to find out.

          Based on the responses above it looks as if many folks don't mind making money in that niche but don't wish to tell anyone not due to embarassment but because they simply don't want to hear the holier then thou speech from the people they tell. Your buddy has gotten to that level yet - simply giving credit to a different niche instead of the adult niche.

          Tim
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Rootdoc,

            Does it contribute anything positive to the lives of human beings? Only money to those who sell it.
            If you do your homework, you'll find that there are many people with a variety of reasons who will tell you different (hint - some severely handicapped people, widowers etc).

            5. Does it contribute to the breakup of marriages and families? Yes.
            There may well be a few cases of this. But I bet there are many more where the marriages are over and the couple keep the family together while the children grow up - if they couldn't get a quick 'hit' then they'd be spending more time 'across the road' and more families would break up and there would be more disturbed children living in negative environments.

            6. Does it lead to sex crimes? Yes, see James Dobson's interview of Ted Bundy before his execution.
            I have no interest in reading an interview with a nonce. Why do you?

            I know nothing about sex crimes but I would imagine if someone has uncontrollable urges, then every time they 'sort themselves out' in private, that might be one less time an innocent gets interfered with.

            7. Does it demean women? Yes.
            ...and therefore, unless porn only ever involves women, it also demeans men. Perhaps men and women like being demeaned? Or perhaps the people who do it either don't feel demeaned, or perhaps it's the best way for them to earn that kind of money and they actually enjoy their job - (perish the thought - enjoying sex? Ugghhh.) Are most porn stars forced into the job at gunpoint?

            8. Is it harmful to young people who have easy internet access? Yes.
            It's a dangerous world out there. So let's try and hide reality from our children because that will really help them. And we better stop them having any contact with other children too in case they let the cat out of the bag. And while we're at it let's stop them watching TV, drinking soft drinks etc...

            10. Is it evil. Yes.
            Of course, no explanation needed there. It's obviously evil. Everybody stop having sex right now! That's the answer to society's problems. In 100 years society will be rid of all human related problems.

            11. Are there temporal and eternal consequences? Yes.
            Ugggghhhhh

            12. Is it addictive? Yes.
            On that basis, so is eating. Give it up!

            13. Is it a healthy addiction? No.
            Best put some health warnings on those DVDs - 'Warning - masturbation and fornication can lead to um....um....hair loss?

            14. Are there more important things than money? Yes.
            Is grass green. Yes. So?

            I don't have an interest in the porn industry, I don't really care about it. But if you're going to try and present an argument, it's wise to base it on reality, not stuff that you've been brainwashed with.

            I also agree with Carlsbadd's post about the health industry. I find that aspect of your post distasteful and hypocritical.
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            • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
              Without falling into the drama that has evolved here let me give my point of view on the OP.

              The friend may very well have a little thing called integrity. He may feel that the adult industry is not something he personally wants to get involved with and regardless of his reasoning that conviction should be praised, not demeaned.

              Regardless of anyones personal beliefs, anyone who has personal convictions and isn't afraid to stand by what they believe in needs to be patted on the back. In this day and age too many people have lost any sense of personal beliefs or convictions.

              We all have the right to our own opinions but we do not have the right to look down on others for not believing the same as we do. Just because the person didn't want to get into the adult industry means only that he has a line he wont cross. From the original post it didn't sound like he was passing judgement but just saying it wasn't for him.
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            • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
              Try the forum at netpond.com for a community of adult webmasters, a lot of great advice there as well.

              Best!
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            • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              Of course, no explanation needed there. It's obviously evil. Everybody stop having sex right now! That's the answer to society's problems. In 100 years society will be rid of all human related problems.
              That, my friend, gets my vote as the funniest rebuttal I've ever read.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alan Paterson
              There's a huge difference in what people class as 'adult' and it really only takes a clever spin to take something from being a respectable main stream idea, or product, into something a bit seedier i.e. Viagra, totally respectable medical cure - or 'rise' of the old age swingers?

              I've always thought that it was down to the level of the material involves as to how taboo a subject was. I also think the blanket ban by the search engines for the paid advertising isn't going to make it seem anymore of a respectable business in the near future.

              The think that does fascinate me about it is the way they still manage to get sizable viewers to their sites to generate a profit.

              Ok, I'm spent - punwise that is!
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            • Profile picture of the author Conrado Oliveira
              I've been working in the adult niche for around 2 months. In my experience, if you have no money to invest then it could take a while for you to start making a substancial amount of cash in this niche.

              However, if you spit some bucks out then it could work for you. I've "invested" $1,500 in my website and made around $200 (100% autopilot and organic traffic) in August. I just started out so there's A LOT to be done but I consider it to be a good investment so far. I'm actually liking the adult niche a lot more than mainstream niches. Not sure why but sex seems easy to sell than an IM ebook for me.
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              • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                Hi Eric,

                For me, as a christian, I would absolutely never, ever make money from a site like this or visit one. Like Mohammed said, I would rather make 8 dollars an hour instead. And no, I am NOT lazy...not even a little bit.

                That being said, before I became a christian and gave my life over to God I did actually run a porn website. Am very familiar with the industry and for you guys pretending like it is all fluffy and normal and ok and stuff. You are lying...plain and simple. It is an incredibly ugly industry where people are hurt all the time.
                So you've swung from one slightly bizarre extreme to another? It's as if the fact that you now claim to be a 'christian' indemnifies you from being involved in an industry that in your own words is 'an incredibly ugly industry where people are hurt all the time.'

                I wonder if -

                a) you have given all of the money you earnt from porn to a charity in order to purge yourself of your previous 'ill-gotten' gains?

                b) at the time you were profiting from it you were so vocal about the downside, or did you find some reason at the time to keep quiet about it?

                And this from someone who says -
                Hypocrytical doesn't even begin to cover it.
                ...about others who called the OP lazy.
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            • Profile picture of the author dustinlemos
              Originally Posted by rootdoc View Post

              Porn...
              1. Does it have an "evil image?" Obviously not evil enough to keep it from being incredibly lucrative.
              2. Is there easy money to be made? Obviously, yes.
              3. Is it frowned upon? Preachers and family groups rail against it. Interestingly, a few years ago after a large pastor's conference concluded in a major city, news came out that many attendees had paid for video porn in their hotel rooms. So, publicly it is frowned up but privately it is making money for those who market and sell it.
              4. Does it contribute anything positive to the lives of human beings? Only money to those who sell it.
              5. Does it contribute to the breakup of marriages and families? Yes.
              6. Does it lead to sex crimes? Yes, see James Dobson's interview of Ted Bundy before his execution.
              7. Does it demean women? Yes.
              8. Is it harmful to young people who have easy internet access? Yes.
              9. Is it legal? Yes.
              10. Is it evil. Yes.
              11. Are there temporal and eternal consequences? Yes.
              12. Is it addictive? Yes.
              13. Is it a healthy addiction? No.
              14. Are there more important things than money? Yes.

              ** I am saddened by this thread. I am unable to spend very much time with IM because I am a full-time health care professional. One reason I enjoy this forum is the people. I don't get to post very much but I have grown to really like and respect many of you by reading and learning from your threads. You are a very helpful and giving group. In the back of my mind I've wondered if the really successful Internet Marketers were in to porn. I chose to think that most weren't. In fact I thought those that were would never participate in a quality forum like WF. Well, my bubble is burst. I'll survive. In health care, I've known very many successful and wealthy people. They gained the cash and lost everything precious in the process. They lost their spouses, kids, and friends to be slaves to the dollar. This is very short-sighted. You will never go wrong by adding value to people's lives. Porn is destructive. Please consider the consequences in other's lives just to make a fistful of dollars that you will one day leave behind.

              Many rich blessings to all of you,
              Steve
              In response to number 4: apparently it contributes something to people's lives, otherwise they wouldn't buy it.

              In response to number 5: do you really think porn is the CAUSE of failed marriages, or the result? Watching two strangers have sex isn't going to stop anyone from loving their spouse.

              In response to number 6: are you saying that if porn didn't exist, Ted Bundy wouldn't have murdered all those women? Even if that's the case, you're making one hell of a generalization based on the actions of a single maniac serial killer from 30 years ago. There have been plenty of incidents where people committed horrible hate crimes because God or The Bible supposedly told them to, but that doesn't mean we should jump to the ridiculous conclusion that religeon caused that behavior.

              In response to 7: yes, sometimes it does demean women, as does mainstream television and music at times. But I do not think porn in general demeans women. That would imply that women aren't just as sexual as men, which simply isn't true.

              In response to 8: If you're referring to young teens looking up porn, then I disagree, as they're simply satisfying their newly found sexuality. Their parents have already educated them on the subject, and if they didn't, then kids will "educate themselves." And I'm not talking about porn. That's hardly the issue.

              If you're referring to little kids stumbling across porn while surfing the web, then I don't think such an event would create anything close to a permanent impact on a kids life. It would be absurd to think that searching for "hot rods" and stumbling onto an adult site is going to give little Billy a misogynistic worldview for the rest of his life. I'd be more concerned about my kids talking to child predators online than accidentally seeing a couple porn sites.

              I agree with you on the rest of your points (minus the religious opinions, as I'm not a religious person). However, while there are certainly things more important than money, there's also more important things to worry about than how your respected friends earn their living. I think it's poor character to judge someone else based on such pointless minutiae, especially if you otherwise thought of them as good people and held so much respect for them.
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            • Profile picture of the author DonDavis
              I had never thought about the porn industry having niches.
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              • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
                Originally Posted by DonDavis View Post

                I had never thought about the porn industry having niches.
                hehe, it even has a few that will land you in prison
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              • Profile picture of the author Danc1122
                Banned
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                  Originally Posted by Danc1122 View Post

                  I'd love to get involved with this industry however I feel like I will have a hard time staying "focused" if you know what I mean : )
                  Perhaps at first.

                  I don't run any porn sites, but, in my work doing graphic design, I have had to work with plenty of pictures of girls and women (and boys and men and all of them were fully clothed). It doesn't matter if you think they're pretty or not; you have a job to do. And, after a while, you just get tired of seeing them anyway. It gets monotonous.

                  I imagine that if you make porn your job, it would be no different. You will be looking at it as work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    I hear the adult industry is hard... competition is stiff.
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    • Profile picture of the author tom03
      Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

      I hear the adult industry is hard... competition is stiff.
      Nice...lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
        Wow guys...

        This is amazing to me. The very same people who are talking about open-ness and "leave me alone to think what I think" are calling this guy lazy because he has standards that he doesn't want to break.

        Hypocrytical doesn't even begin to cover it.

        For me, as a christian, I would absolutely never, ever make money from a site like this or visit one. Like Mohammed said, I would rather make 8 dollars an hour instead. And no, I am NOT lazy...not even a little bit.

        That being said, before I became a christian and gave my life over to God I did actually run a porn website. Am very familiar with the industry and for you guys pretending like it is all fluffy and normal and ok and stuff. You are lying...plain and simple. It is an incredibly ugly industry where people are hurt all the time.

        They are hurt from being in the industry and...even the ones that are not (are there any really?) the people who get into this as performers are clearly some messed up, hurting people. (both men and women really)

        Anyone who has the slightest knowledge of adult performers who will not admit this is either deluding themselves or just lying. Yes, I know there are probably exceptions...yada yada...

        But, cmon guys, do you REALLY not concede that most of the perfomers in the adult industry and not exactly living the good life? Really?

        Look, do what you want to...it's not my job to police the world. It's not my job to tell people what they can and cannot do. I just think that it's interesting that the same people who are claiming that they should not be judged instantly start judging someone who doesn't have the same beliefs that they do...

        Something to think about...

        /puts on flame retardant jacket
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  • Profile picture of the author lindajess
    There are some that frown upon the industry. Me personally, I don't.

    Maybe your friend was looking for a hand out instead of a hand up? Or maybe he was afraid to get his name on some of that stuff...or maybe he thought that you were actually IN it?

    HA! I don't really know, but I do know that it is still looked down upon by a lot of people. You have to be really careful who you are targetting because you don't want to offend anyone.

    Am I right on this one?
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Muzzey
      If it weren't for sex, none of us would be here. Sorry, but sex IS important. Yes there is love and romance and all that, but the human species can continue without that. It can't continue without sex.

      rootdoc,
      Are you sure Bundy wasn't just scapegoating p*rn so he didn't have to admit being a piece of sh!t person who liked to kill for the heck of it? I grew up watching Road Runner and Coyote cartoons. I am not violent. If everything in society were sanitized, you'd still have people like Bundy.
      Yes, p*rn can break up marriages and families. Alcohol does also, and at a greater rate. Do you drink alcohol? Do your neighbors?
      Lighten up buddy.
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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      One of the few quotes I enjoyed by that Shakesphere dude was this one:

      "Yo....me thinks you'se protest too much..."

      What do I know for sure? That those who protest too hard against any vice...often are those who are guilty of engaging in the very vices they publically denounce. Funny how that works, huh??? LOL! But true.

      The "self-righteous" sheep whose life mission seems to be protecting me...from myself......Thanks Mr. and Mrs Jones....but worry about your own miserable, boring lives....don't try and fix mine.

      I'm happy. Hate to break it to you'se...but I am. Happy and rich!

      Those who live in gated communities and worry about how many chicks in short skirts live in the neighborhood...while you have your ebay telescope firmly on the tripod directed at someone else's window...etc.

      Those who protest the most....often seem to be the same guys that make the 6pm news.

      Those who judge porn...often have it under their mattress....! I know this for sure......cuz I sell a lot of porn to a lot of "good upstanding members of the community." IF I WROTE A WHO IS WHO BOOK....I COULD RETIRE TODAY! I'm very serious.

      And while they live in denial...they aint out there killing people either!

      Those members of the US Congress who hate gays...sometimes....decide to hook up in a Minneapolis airport mens room...tapping their feet in some bathroom stall. LOL. Slightly hypocritical, ya think?

      Preachers who preach against adultery....while screwing their church secretary.....right Mr. Baker? Or those who snort meth.....in hotels with dudes......for sex....while preaching the Gospel? True.

      Those who vow to strike down hookers and et al.....seem to often be the very same ones...using tax payer money to pay for their "midnight dates"....he he.

      Don't believe me? Just ask a well known, self righteous Now Former Governor...who decided hookers were ok for him...but not you'se people.

      The point?

      Worry about yourself, Warriors. You are your own gate keeper.

      I don't push porn on anyone. And I don't need sheep pushing their anti-porn agenda on me...especially when a good majority of them watch it!

      I don't give a shit what you'se do in your bedroom. If you don't hurt anybody...God Bless......break out the whips and chains and get with it.

      And if you hate porn......hey..that's cool too. Your choice. Free choice. And I sure aint here to convert you. Give me the same respect.


      xxx Vegas Vince
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  • Profile picture of the author Richie V
    i think its a bit of both... the person is lazy and people A LOT of people still frown and will always frown upon that industry
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
    If anyone would like to get away from the deep philosophical discussions, and just learn the business of adult, try: netpond.com

    Great newbie forum, and a lot of advice that can be applied to "mainstream" marketing as well.

    Best!
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
      Ex Rat,

      Um...I don't even know what to say. You have never done something that you knew was not right. Not good and did it anyway? You never have later on felt bad about that and stopped doing it?

      That is swinging to one bizarro extreme? Huh?
      But to answer your questions...

      A.

      Do I need to purge myself of my past sins by giving to charities and such? Well no. It's over. I have done that and a ton of other things in my life that I regret. (as everyone has by the way) I am forgiven and don't have the spend the rest of my life atoning for past sins. Man, I do stuff every freakin day that I wish I hadn't.

      As for being a christian indemnifying me from what I have done. Well, yea actually it does. It is over now. Completely and totally. There is no reason that I have to pay the price for the rest of my life for earlier mistakes. Do you think that you have to pay the price for every mistake that you have ever committed for the rest of your life. Do you?

      B.

      And as for whether I was quiet at the time. Of course I was. People usually are when they are doing something that is wrong. Something that gives them something but hurts other people.

      That being said...I wasn't even really thinking much at the time about the people who worked in the industry. Didn't really care about them, tell the truth. I am a really selfish person in a lot of ways and that is something that I am trying to fix. I used to be a MUCH more selfish person.

      I hope the original post didn't come across as someone who thinks they are perfect. I have ocd and bipolar so you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm not. Not even a little. Man, me running a porn site was one of the least atrocious things I have done in my life.

      But let me tell you what...it's over. It's over and I don't have to do that stuff anymore. And you have a problem with that? Why exactly?

      The fact that I no longer do those things does not make me hypocritical. It just means that I have grown as a human being. Isn't that the point? Isn't that what we should be trying to do?

      I am not coming down on a single person who does anything. If you want to run an adult site, man cmon...have a great one...

      I just wish we would be honest.

      We are talking about an industry where it is just clear clear clear that the people in it are hurting people and people who routinely hurt other people. Everyone usually just pretends like that isn't the case. Not too different really from a crack dealer pretending like his customers aren't really the way they are. He's just a businessman supplying a product. Right?

      I really would like to know from you ExRat where I have been hypocritical? I just don't see it. If it is true then I will apologize but I just don't see it man.

      It is not hypocritical to change a behavior because you think that what you have been doing in the past is wrong.

      What I said was hypocritical was people arguing for tolerance. "Leave me alone to be the way I want to be" and then coming down on someone for having a belief different from their own.

      That is hypocrital. Saying you believe something and then doing something else.

      If I were right now running an adult website...THAT would be hypocritical. If I right now owned or looked at porn...THAT would be hypocritical.

      The fact that I used to, came to the realization that it is wrong and then stopped...That is NOT hypocritical.

      If I am missing something please let me know...

      /Sorry for the book guys. Really I am...
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      • Profile picture of the author Conrado Oliveira
        We are talking about an industry where it is just clear clear clear that the people in it are hurting people and people who routinely hurt other people. Everyone usually just pretends like that isn't the case. Not too different really from a crack dealer pretending like his customers aren't really the way they are. He's just a businessman supplying a product. Right?

        The way you're saying it sounds like you're saying that the whole industry hurts people (that is so not true). I agree, like EVERY industry some things are wrong. Hell, look at the IM niche. 95% of products suck. They instill hope in people and feed them BS. One of the buyers of one of those stupid ebooks probably really needs money and is up to his neck in debt. When he reads the ebook he realizes that he got scammed for the only 100 bucks he had.

        I'm not saying that all porn is good. I'm all against illegal porn (rape, underage sex, etc...). I'm just saying that you can't condem the whole industry for the faults of a few people. Here's a good example for you since you're christian. A couple years ago I read an article in the newspaper about a catholic priest that was RAPING girls under the age of 10. These girls moms often had 2-3 jobs and worked 18 hours per day. So they would leave their children with the church, who had a program where they would take care of the children for a specific period of the day. The moms who were barley making a living left their children at the house of God, with a preist, a holy man for lords sake where they thought they could find some peace of mind so that their children weren't at home alone or on the streets doing drugs. And he was raping them. Many bad things like this happen in various religions.

        Does that mean that the whole creed is bad? No.
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        • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
          You are right...BUT there is a big difference.

          The vast majority of adult performers have some serious problems going on. The great great majority.

          That is very different from there being a few bad seeds in an industry...or religion.

          I think it's the difference between

          ...there being a few really bad, evil preachers (there was one recently that killed his wife and hid her in the freezer...hows that for bad?) in a group where most of them are not like that and

          ...something like the Jim Jones group where it was just bad mojo all around and pretty much everybody got hurt.

          I mean look. You talk to people who run these companies, people who direct these movies, people who scout for adult talent...etc.

          They know, and will readily admit usually, EXACTLY the type of people their performers are. And when you listen to them talk about their performers they demean, trash and put them down readily. It is pretty clear how they think about these people. Not like they try to hide it or anything really.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Eric,

            I didn't actually say you were hypocritical. I was commenting on your strong statement ('Hypocritical doesn't even begin to cover it') about others being hypocritical.

            And I found it surprising that you said -

            as a christian, I would absolutely never, ever make money from a site like this or visit one
            Perhaps you meant to say - 'Because of the things I learnt previously while running a porn website...I would absolutely never...anymore'?

            It just seemed like a bit of a strange combination of statements within the posts, which was what I was commenting on.

            It's like when you said afterwards -

            The vast majority of adult performers have some serious problems going on. The great great majority.

            That is very different from there being a few bad seeds in an industry...or religion.

            I think it's the difference between

            ...there being a few really bad, evil preachers (there was one recently that killed his wife and hid her in the freezer...hows that for bad?) in a group where most of them are not like that
            Your statements appear to contain great quantities of spin. Allow me to elaborate -

            The vast majority of adult performers have some serious problems going on. The great great majority.
            1) Problems that have arisen purely from their job as an adult performer?

            2) Or problems that they brought with them into the industry?

            3) Or perhaps problems that meant that a mainstream career was out of the question. Therefore they were 'driven' towards that 'type' of career?

            2 & 3 are entirely different to 1 and if it's 2 or 3 that totally invalidates the point you are trying to make (IE porn is bad for them).

            And what type of serious problems are you talking about? Without being specific it totally changes the relevance of your point. For example, if we were talking about psychological problems, drug/alcohol problems, other addictions - then as well as the adult industry, you will also find that a large percentage of the human population encounters these serious problems at some point in their life.

            And you are saying that industries (EG IM) and religions have a 'few' bad people within them, yet the adult industry is absolutely teaming with them?

            Your point would be easier to accept if you applied less spin to it.

            What I was trying to point out is that at this point, you are trying to convince people that the adult inustry is absolutely terrible for the performers, way above and beyond any other.

            Yet you also admit to making a dramatic u-turn on your thinking. Who do you take notice of? People who are consistent in their views, or those who go from one extreme to the other and when they get there appear to be trying to spin their points to make something seem worse than it is, while everything else (according to them) is reasonably harmless and we are all being over-dramatic (about IM or religion)?

            I appreciate you answering my questions from the previous post (a & b) but I have to mention -

            As for being a christian indemnifying me from what I have done. Well, yea actually it does. It is over now. Completely and totally. There is no reason that I have to pay the price for the rest of my life for earlier mistakes.
            I never suggested you should pay for the rest of your life, but I asked if you had paid for it once. You're willing to make your viewpoint heard about how bad it is for these people while calling others liars, yet rather than giving something back for doing something that you say you knew was wrong at the time and you still know it is - you believe that becoming religious is enough to put things right.

            I find your point of view intriguing.
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            • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              Hi Eric,

              I didn't actually say you were hypocritical. I was commenting on your strong statement ('Hypocritical doesn't even begin to cover it') about others being hypocritical.

              And I found it surprising that you said -

              Perhaps you meant to say - 'Because of the things I learnt previously while running a porn website...I would absolutely never...anymore'?

              It just seemed like a bit of a strange combination of statements within the posts, which was what I was commenting on.
              No, I really meant it the way I said it. I try to follow God's teachings and porn clearly is something that is inconsistent with that.

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


              It's like when you said afterwards -

              Your statements appear to contain great quantities of spin. Allow me to elaborate -

              1) Problems that have arisen purely from their job as an adult performer?

              2) Or problems that they brought with them into the industry?

              3) Or perhaps problems that meant that a mainstream career was out of the question. Therefore they were 'driven' towards that 'type' of career?

              2 & 3 are entirely different to 1 and if it's 2 or 3 that totally invalidates the point you are trying to make (IE porn is bad for them).

              And what type of serious problems are you talking about? Without being specific it totally changes the relevance of your point. For example, if we were talking about psychological problems, drug/alcohol problems, other addictions - then as well as the adult industry, you will also find that a large percentage of the human population encounters these serious problems at some point in their life.
              I said that it is both people who are messed up choose to go into that field AND the people who run the field are exploitative, not very nice, good people for the most part which hurts the messed up people who go into it further.

              It's kind of like prostitution. I think it's clear that there are generally problems with someone that will lead them to even considering that as a career choice BUT at the same time it would be silly to think that since they are already like that the pimps and customers don't do things to them that mess them up further.

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


              And you are saying that industries (EG IM) and religions have a 'few' bad people within them, yet the adult industry is absolutely teaming with them?

              Your point would be easier to accept if you applied less spin to it.

              What I was trying to point out is that at this point, you are trying to convince people that the adult industry is absolutely terrible for the performers, way above and beyond any other.
              Well, yea I am... And it is. Look at the lifestyle of the "employees" of the adult industry and look at the lifestyle of your average person in...say IM. I mean really. How much spin am I really putting on this?

              People who are willing to have sex on a camera are generally pretty messed up people. The exceptions are few and far between. Sorry if it doesn't sound good but it is absolutely true. I mean, it's not even really debatable.


              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


              Yet you also admit to making a dramatic u-turn on your thinking. Who do you take notice of? People who are consistent in their views, or those who go from one extreme to the other and when they get there appear to be trying to spin their points to make something seem worse than it is, while everything else (according to them) is reasonably harmless and we are all being over-dramatic (about IM or religion)?
              Well, I dont think I have spun anything really. But that being said, I never said that I made a dramatic u-turn in my thinking. I made a tramatic u-turn in my actions. I knew before that people in this industry were hurting, messed up people and you know what? I didn't much care. I was going to do what I was going to do regardless.

              And you know what...people who are currently in that industry are the same way. Unless they are seriously self delusional they know what the industry is like...they just know.

              I see how it is that you are viewing me from the extremest flipping that you talk about. And it is understandable since you don't know me except from a few words that I post here but, it's just not true.

              There are people out there like Michael Savage who go from one extreme to the other. They are always drawn to extremist views. I'm just not one of those people. Not politically, religiously or really any other way. I tend to be the more moderate type in pretty much everything. But I do see things the way tha I see them and I really think that is the best way to be.

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


              I appreciate you answering my questions from the previous post (a & b) but I have to mention -

              I never suggested you should pay for the rest of your life, but I asked if you had paid for it once. You're willing to make your viewpoint heard about how bad it is for these people while calling others liars, yet rather than giving something back for doing something that you say you knew was wrong at the time and you still know it is - you believe that becoming religious is enough to put things right.

              I find your point of view intriguing.
              I am forgiven by God and it is over. End of story. I mean what would you suggest that I do to directly make amends for things that I have done like that?

              I do try to help people. I do try to show grace and mercy to people but I just don't see how giving money to charity or something like that is in any way a direct atonement for past sins. I mean yea, if I directly hurt someone I should go to them and make things right but it doesn't sound like that is what you are suggesting.








              Look I am actually really curious. Are these more like academic, logic arguments from you or do you REALLY not think that the adult industry is teeming with problem people in a way that most industries are not?

              What do you think of drug trafficking industry?

              What about the prostitution industry?

              I could think of more but what about those?
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              • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                Hi Eric,

                I never said that I made a dramatic u-turn in my thinking. I made a tramatic u-turn in my actions. I knew before that people in this industry were hurting, messed up people and you know what? I didn't much care.
                But you appear to care now? Which would suggest that you have changed your thinking. You didn't just stop running a porn site without thinking about it.

                I am forgiven by God and it is over. End of story. I mean what would you suggest that I do to directly make amends for things that I have done like that?
                Now I'm curious. How does someone gain this forgiveness? By becoming a Christian? If someone runs a porn site, gives it up, but doesn't become a Christian do they not get forgiven? If not, what causes forgiveness from upon high?

                I do think that there is a logical argument for making some kind of amends, yes. But not from a religious point of view. Purely to aid evolution and to gain purpose in one's life. Or in case our children (or anyone else who learns from us) is taking note. If a thief stole my money, and then made amends in later years because they had turned their life around - I believe it would be beneficial to me. I like happy endings. But if the thief said to me 'I have paid you back by becoming a christian' I would still feel robbed.

                Well, yea I am... And it is. Look at the lifestyle of the "employees" of the adult industry and look at the lifestyle of your average person in...say IM. I mean really. How much spin am I really putting on this?

                People who are willing to have sex on a camera are generally pretty messed up people. The exceptions are few and far between. Sorry if it doesn't sound good but it is absolutely true. I mean, it's not even really debatable.
                Too many blanket statements and assumptions. Different strokes for different folks. Some people enjoy being an exhibitionist. Look at the success of naturism.

                How do you know what IMers lifestyles are like in general? From what I hear many porn stars just see it as a job. For them, sitting behind a computer crunching code, or collecting dustbins, or being a social worker and removing children from their homes under the orders of their superiors would be a bizarre way to earn a living - whereas having sex (something that many people spend a massive amount of time and energy trying to indulge in) and getting paid for it, to them, is not really work.

                Look I am actually really curious. Are these more like academic, logic arguments from you or do you REALLY not think that the adult industry is teeming with problem people in a way that most industries are not?
                Both, but primarily the former. I love debate, critical thinking and examining peoples' opposing point of view. I like to keep it as positive and educational as possible, although this often strays off course on a forum. I see it as mental sport and feel that it stimulates and educates. And I would hope that any lurkers like to see tough questions asked and answered. I know I use my 'crunching popcorn' smilie on a regular basis when I am lurking on the outside of an interesting discussion..



                To comment on the latter point, it is not so much that I think that porn doesn't have it's share of 'problem people', but that I think you are suggesting that the difference between porn and other industries is too great. Don't forget, in certain industries it is more acceptable to be open about your problems and lifestyle etc.

                Just because mainstream business frowns about this openness (on the surface) does not mean that those problems are not rife amongst them. They're just not so obvious.

                So as not to get too off topic and boring, I hope we can call it a day and 'shake virtual hands' like good sportsmen.
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                • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
                  Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                  Hi Eric,

                  So as not to get too off topic and boring, I hope we can call it a day and 'shake virtual hands' like good sportsmen.
                  With what we've been talking about I'm not shakin that hand...I don't know where its been
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  • Profile picture of the author adarwish
    I wouldn't do it. It's like selling tobacco or alcohol to me. Everyone's moral compass is different, so maybe he just can't put effort into something he doesn't feel is conducive to a healthy society.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tiger
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post


    What do mainstream marketers think of the adult industry? ..Have you tried promoting adult stuff? (..why not?) ..has it still this "evil image"?

    For the first question, unless they are hiding it from us, the mainstream
    marketers are not promoting in the porno industry. What do they
    think of it ? Send them a PM.


    Here is an indicator for you :LINK


    Have I tried it ? NO.

    Why not ? Its wrong.

    Has it still this "evil image". Yes, but my part of the world is getting numb to it.


    Its amazing that people have ten thousand different views on right
    and wrong, and all believe they are right. :confused: That could only come about
    if people leave the moral standards that their culture was built upon.
    In times past, moral issues were agreed upon much easier. Most everyone
    had the same moral standards and it was less of an " I think this..."
    scenario.

    When a culture leaves their moral foundation, there is one thing
    to fill its place - personal opinion. This will of course lead to chaos.
    That is where the USA is today: Moral chaos.


    The One who gave us our eyes is the One to look to for what
    we ought to be doing with our eyes.

    Its not hard to get His opinion on this subject: LINK


    Be Careful What You Allow Your Eyes To See...
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    We Get What We Settle For
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Tiger View Post

      The One who gave us our eyes is the One to look to for what
      we ought to be doing with our eyes.

      Its not hard to get His opinion on this subject: LINK


      Be Careful What You Allow Your Eyes To See...
      He also had this to say: LINK
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      • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
        Dan, that was part of a conversation with the pharisees concerning ritual washing with food. The overall context was food and he even talks about food in the passage. Doesn't apply.
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        • Profile picture of the author jordanwarrior
          Hello Everyone,

          This is the warrior forum where we discuss INTERNET MARKETING. I suggest you keep it that way. Each has his/her own opinion about the matter, depending on his/her moral compass. Do not let yourself get too worked up over someone's comments. After all, in the end, you can't run someone's life for them. That said, leave the trench digging for elsewhere.
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          • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
            hehe I was wondering when that post would come. Rather surprised it took so long
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post

          Dan, that was part of a conversation with the pharisees concerning ritual washing with food. The overall context was food and he even talks about food in the passage. Doesn't apply.
          Clearly, He is speaking of more than just food.

          At any rate, this thread just goes to demonstrate just why any Internet marketers who do run adult sites may not wish to admit it. Suddenly, they are the devil.

          We have free will, and that includes the freedom to make what some may consider to be bad decisions for ourselves. Has porn ruined some people's lives? Yes. But, so has gambling. And credit card debt. Buying houses they couldn't afford. Watching sports. Working long hours at the office.

          Lots of things can be bad. Even seemingly good things can be bad if taken to an extreme. Drinking too much water will kill you too.

          In the end, everyone has to follow the dictates of their own conscience.

          And, even if you don't market porn, there are certainly lessons to be learned in how it is marketed.
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          Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

          Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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          • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
            Dude, if you are going to have a Don't click here button...knowing that I'm gonna click on it. Could at least make it work

            And not to argue...really I'm over it at this point. All argued out...but I can't help but say as a parting shot... I like this

            He is definitely talking about food there. The additional stuff is what comes OUT of a person. The overall context of the conversation and even his words all concern ritual washing before eating.

            Read the full chapter for the context. He is discussing Jewish traditions over Gods law. While he does bring up the tradition of giving to the church instead of your parents. The conversation was brought about by not washing and eating and his example of food comes out of that.

            BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
              Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post

              And not to argue...really I'm over it at this point. All argued out...but I can't help but say as a parting shot... I like this
              I guess we'll have to agree to disagree regarding the interpretation.

              Dude, if you are going to have a Don't click here button...knowing that I'm gonna click on it. Could at least make it work
              Okay, now, see, I said quite explicitly "Don't click here!" and yet you did. Now, maybe you see why I'm not buying your interpretation?
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              Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

              Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author dustinlemos
      Originally Posted by Tiger View Post

      In times past, moral issues were agreed upon much easier. Most everyone
      had the same moral standards and it was less of an " I think this..."
      scenario.
      Yes, in times past, there was indeed much less free thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    This is why I'm a closet christian. and a small c christian at that. Do I believe? only what makes sense to me. Do I think porn is wrong. NO. It is again people providing services to a market that is huge and earning a good living from it. Never criticize someone's choice of occupation. For a bit of a glimpse of th inside of the industry watch any of the WebDreams docushows. Personally, I hate when being christian is brought up as a defense for calling a particular industry down (or groups of people etc). If you can make money with what you do, and it doesn't hurt other people (anyone in the adult industry is there because they WANT to be) then good for you.
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