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NOTE To ALLEN SAYS...

by robert key
31 replies
Hi Allen,

I've been a WF member for almost 10 years and I must say that
the WF is one of the best spots on the 'net to learn how to market
online, etc.

Overall, I must say that I've enjoyed my experience on the WF and
I've learned a great deal.

I've also had several negative experiences on the WF as well and they
stem from purchasing products and services on the WSO section as
well as the Classified Ads section.

I'm asking you if you could PLEASE implement a REVIEW system (like
on Amazon) that will allow buyers to rate each seller with ZERO STARS
to FIVE STARS in reference to our buying experience.

We should be able to rate them for their "customer care" as well. So
many WF sellers will sell you a product or service and then they miss
the mark because of their lack of customer care, etc.

Everyone that wants to sell on this WF should have to be accountable
as a seller on this forum. The rules are set so that the BUYERS can't
express their negative experiences or openly complain about a seller
but yet, some sellers can screw people over and not be held accountable.

I know not all sellers are rip-off artists or are sellers that basically ignore
their customers after the sale but a universal REVIEW system on the forum
would help protect buyers BEFORE they part with their money.

I purchased a product from ______ and it's not working as advertised. I've
requested support for almost a week and the issue hasn't been corrected.
I've received a response claiming that they would get it taken care of but
nothing has been resolved.

I'm not going to reveal publicly who the seller is since the mods would
simply delete the thread, but I will say that IF a review/testimonial system
was in place & I saw that this person's customer care was rated low, I
wouldn't have purchased his product.

I DO NOT want a refund, I just want to be able to use the product as
advertised because it looks like a great product.

What makes my experience worse is I can't receive any support BUT he's
still sending out emails promoting webinars and other products that he's
going to make even more money from.

Maybe the sellers would act and treat the buyer better if they had to WAIT
to receive their funds like we have to wait for days to get support for their
product that we PAID for.

So, with that being said, do you think it's possible to set up a review or
rating system that automatically gets attached to each seller that wants
to sell products and services on the forum?

Please feel free to PM me to discuss this issue further if you don't want
to respond on this thread.

Thanks,

Robert
#allen #note
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
    If you buy a WSO or service you can put your feedback right in the thread. Most people will read that for reviews, there is also the review section on the forum.

    We are all adults and should be capable of our own due diligence.

    There is also Rule #1 here ----> http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ing-forum.html
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    • Profile picture of the author robert key
      @ Thomas,

      I understand and know that already but not everyone has the time
      to wade through numerous testimonials, etc.

      A REVIEW system would allow someone to glance and see that a
      seller is rated a 2 or a 3.

      It's much easier and quicker to see that buyers have rated a seller
      with a gold star system.

      It works for AMAZON and other sites online so there's no reason
      as to why it can't work on the WF too.

      Thanks,

      Robert
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
        Originally Posted by robert key View Post

        @ Thomas,

        I understand and know that already but not everyone has the time
        to wade through numerous testimonials, etc.

        A REVIEW system would allow someone to glance and see that a
        seller is rated a 2 or a 3.

        It's much easier and quicker to see that buyers have rated a seller
        with a gold star system.

        It works for AMAZON and other sites online so there's no reason
        as to why it can't work on the WF too.

        Thanks,

        Robert
        There are also fake reviews and rating on amazon, you don't think there will be fiverr gigs to give you 5 stars about a day after that comes in to effect?

        If you are going to make a purchase, make an educated one and take 20 minutes to do some research... just sayin'
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      • Profile picture of the author petelta
        Originally Posted by robert key View Post

        @ Thomas,

        I understand and know that already but not everyone has the time
        to wade through numerous testimonials, etc.

        A REVIEW system would allow someone to glance and see that a
        seller is rated a 2 or a 3.

        It's much easier and quicker to see that buyers have rated a seller
        with a gold star system.

        It works for AMAZON and other sites online so there's no reason
        as to why it can't work on the WF too.

        Thanks,

        Robert
        If you're having such a hard time with the products and services you buy, then take the time to read the posts in the thread.

        If you've been around for 10 years, then you know the people that give good advice. SO, buy their products.

        That way you know it's going to be good and you can start to see who they suggest.

        There's a lot of crap out there... but that's an easy fix.

        It would be redundant to add a Amazon-esque review system.

        Travis
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      • Profile picture of the author robert key
        @ Thomas,

        I know what RULE #1 says...

        So, my question to you is what do you do when you do take it up
        DIRECTLY and the seller simply ignores you, etc.

        The point is all sellers need to be held ACCOUNTABLE. Period. Maybe,
        they shouldn't be allowed to sell on here if they get a certain number
        of complaints.

        I know that can be abused but most people want good customer care
        AFTER they sale. That's their right if they've forked over their
        hard-earned money.

        R.
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
          Originally Posted by robert key View Post

          @ Thomas,

          I know what RULE #1 says...

          So, my question to you is what do you do when you do take it up
          DIRECTLY and the seller simply ignores you, etc.

          The point is all sellers need to be held ACCOUNTABLE. Period. Maybe,
          they shouldn't be allowed to sell on here if they get a certain number
          of complaints.

          I know that can be abused but most people want good customer care
          AFTER they sale. That's their right if they've forked over their
          hard-earned money.

          R.
          Most people that rip people off don't last long here from what I know.
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        • Profile picture of the author andrewkar
          Originally Posted by robert key View Post

          @ Thomas,

          I know what RULE #1 says...

          So, my question to you is what do you do when you do take it up
          DIRECTLY and the seller simply ignores you, etc.

          The point is all sellers need to be held ACCOUNTABLE. Period. Maybe,
          they shouldn't be allowed to sell on here if they get a certain number
          of complaints.

          I know that can be abused but most people want good customer care
          AFTER they sale. That's their right if they've forked over their
          hard-earned money.

          R.
          WF is not responsible for businesses between users. If you have problem with someone go and talk with him directly.

          Or..if you are 100% sure you are right, go and post in WSO topic what's going on. Hope this help.
          Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
          Originally Posted by robert key View Post

          @ Thomas,

          I know what RULE #1 says...

          So, my question to you is what do you do when you do take it up
          DIRECTLY and the seller simply ignores you, etc.
          If you and several others are getting burned by a seller here, then contact a mod to make them aware of it. Members have been banned before for duping other members.

          Again, like everyone else has mentioned, you should definitely do your due diligence before making a purchase. If you run into issues after the fact and the seller won't comply, then you can:

          - File a dispute with PayPal to get your money back (which usually tends to favor the buyer in digital sales in my experience)

          - Leave your feedback in the seller's thread

          - Chalk it up as experience and move on

          There a lot of "one hit wonders" and "bottom feeders" that come and go in the WSO section. Like I said though - a little research before making a purchase can go a long way.
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        • Profile picture of the author robert key
          Hi Warriors,

          Let me say this...

          I think the Warrior that I'm talking about is a good guy but I feel that if
          I've requested 'support', then I should get support.

          The issue is that I purchased a WSO and this product that I need the
          support for was offered as a OTO. I purchased the WSO in part to be
          able to get the OTO b/c it's not offered as a stand-alone product.

          The OP of the WSO is not the issue. It's the product owner of the OTO
          that I need the support from.

          I just received an email from the OP of the WSO and he's trying to help
          me with this OTO product and it's not even his product. That is called
          good, no great customer care but it's not his responsibility as it's not
          HIS product.

          The product owner of the OTO shouldn't be so fast to sell products and
          services if he doesn't want to give customer support.

          R.
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          • Profile picture of the author robert key
            @ bhuff85,

            Normally, I file a complaint with PayPal but in this case, I DO NOT
            WANT A REFUND, I want the product owner to assist me with the
            customer support that I deserve b/c I WANT TO USE THE PRODUCT.

            I always do my due diligence and the product creator that I'm
            referring to has a GOOD REP and I've purchased from him before.
            I've never had any issues with him before but you don't accept my
            money and then ignore me for almost a week.

            I've emailed him, opened up a support ticket to his help desk, I've
            tried to add him as a Contact on Skype and no response BUT he's
            still sending out emails to his list about upcoming webinars and
            promoting other people's products, etc.

            Ok, true a review system similar to AMAZON'S may not change
            anything but what's a person supposed to do when you can't get
            the customer support that you deserve?

            IJS...

            R.
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            • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
              Originally Posted by robert key View Post

              @ bhuff85,

              Normally, I file a complaint with PayPal but in this case, I DO NOT
              WANT A REFUND, I want the product owner to assist me with the
              customer support that I deserve b/c I WANT TO USE THE PRODUCT.

              I always do my due diligence and the product creator that I'm
              referring to has a GOOD REP and I've purchased from him before.
              I've never had any issues with him before but you don't accept my
              money and then ignore me for almost a week.

              I've emailed him, opened up a support ticket to his help desk, I've
              tried to add him as a Contact on Skype and no response BUT he's
              still sending out emails to his list about upcoming webinars and
              promoting other people's products, etc.

              Ok, true a review system similar to AMAZON'S may not change
              anything but what's a person supposed to do when you can't get
              the customer support that you deserve?

              IJS...

              R.
              Make big noises on his wso thread, that's what...
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

                Make big noises on his wso thread, that's what...
                *Facepalms*
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  How many times are we going to have this debate in one week?

                  We are NOT going to start reviewing every offer and putting a "Warrior Forum" stamp of approval on them before they're posted.

                  Ever

                  For reasons you should know after all this time, Robert.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    How many times are we going to have this debate in one week?
                    I was about to post this, but figured that someone must have beat me to it by this time, if only by a few minutes.

                    How many times have we had this same topic over the last year or two?
                    Signature
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      How many times have we had this same topic over the last year or two?
                      I don't know, Ken, but it's a lot. More than should have escaped the notice of someone who sees fit to mention having been a member here for 10 years.

                      And Robert isn't exactly one of our more "challenged" members.


                      Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
              Originally Posted by robert key View Post

              @ bhuff85,

              Normally, I file a complaint with PayPal but in this case, I DO NOT
              WANT A REFUND, I want the product owner to assist me with the
              customer support that I deserve b/c I WANT TO USE THE PRODUCT.

              I always do my due diligence and the product creator that I'm
              referring to has a GOOD REP and I've purchased from him before.
              I've never had any issues with him before but you don't accept my
              money and then ignore me for almost a week.

              I've emailed him, opened up a support ticket to his help desk, I've
              tried to add him as a Contact on Skype and no response BUT he's
              still sending out emails to his list about upcoming webinars and
              promoting other people's products, etc.

              Ok, true a review system similar to AMAZON'S may not change
              anything but what's a person supposed to do when you can't get
              the customer support that you deserve?

              IJS...

              R.
              Did the seller agree on their page to offer support or assist with methods after the product was purchased? If so, was there a particular estimate on time it would take to answer support questions?

              If the seller agreed to offer full-blown support and gave a window of time in regards to questions being answered and is deliberately blowing them off, then I can see where you're coming from.

              However, if the support being offered wasn't like a "1 on 1" training deal and there to answer endless questions pertaining to the product, then I can see why the seller may be hesitant to respond.

              Sellers who offer support need to clairify exactly what level of support is being offered. If not, people purchase a product for $8.95 and expect a seller to answer every question within hours for days on end. Buyers who expect that level of support often expect the seller to setup everything for them, too.

              I'm not saying you're "one of those guys". I'm more or less making the statement that both sides need to have resonable expectations when it comes to support. That can only get easier when the seller lays out the terms upfront to avoid problems for both the buyer AND themselves.

              As far as the e-mails, that very well could be an autoresponder winging them out. It could be possible that an emergency came up? I know it's inconvenient at the time, but you never know what could be going on with someone else (especially when business is being conducted online).
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              • Profile picture of the author robert key
                Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

                Did the seller agree on their page to offer support or assist with methods after the product was purchased? If so, was there a particular estimate on time it would take to answer support questions?

                If the seller agreed to offer full-blown support and gave a window of time in regards to questions being answered and is deliberately blowing them off, then I can see where you're coming from.

                However, if the support being offered wasn't like a "1 on 1" training deal and there to answer endless questions pertaining to the product, then I can see why the seller may be hesitant to respond.

                Sellers who offer support need to clairify exactly what level of support is being offered. If not, people purchase a product for $8.95 and expect a seller to answer every question within hours for days on end. Buyers who expect that level of support often expect the seller to setup everything for them, too.

                I'm not saying you're "one of those guys". I'm more or less making the statement that both sides need to have resonable expectations when it comes to support. That can only get easier when the seller lays out the terms upfront to avoid problems for both the buyer AND themselves.

                As far as the e-mails, that very well could be an autoresponder winging them out. It could be possible that an emergency came up? I know it's inconvenient at the time, but you never know what could be going on with someone else (especially when business is being conducted online).
                Yes, this product owner did offer full support to this product. He claimed this on a webinar that he did before the WSO.

                Yes, I'm very aware that stuff does come up for people when business is being conducted online but I just received the email last night about his upcoming webinar for a new product that he's about to release.

                Thanks,

                Robert
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Screw it. The guy's been here for 10 years, and had to have an affiliate link removed from his signature file?

                  /end thread
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by robert key View Post

        @ Thomas,

        I understand and know that already but not everyone has the time
        to wade through numerous testimonials, etc.

        A REVIEW system would allow someone to glance and see that a
        seller is rated a 2 or a 3.

        It's much easier and quicker to see that buyers have rated a seller
        with a gold star system.

        It works for AMAZON and other sites online so there's no reason
        as to why it can't work on the WF too.

        Thanks,

        Robert
        Robert, there's a key difference between sites like Amazon, Best Buy, etc. and the WSO/Classified sections of the Warrior Forum.

        Amazon, et al., control the money from purchase to vendor payment. They can tag verified buyers (which Amazon does) or use escrow/withholding systems to enforce service policies.

        Without some sort of control over who can enter a rating, it becomes that which used to describe Chicago politics - "remember, vote early and vote often..."

        I can see the threads already complaining that products' performance or vendors' service didn't match their star rating, much like the ones already complaining about phony testimonials. At least the testimonial posts have to have some sort of user name attached. An anonymous star rating with no control over the voting is an open invitation to abuse.

        I wonder what the over/under would be, in days, before offers cropped up on Fiverr and the like offering five-star ratings on WSOs...
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      • Profile picture of the author contentwriting360
        Banned
        Robert, if I'm not mistaken, the star-rating system that you're looking for has been available long time ago.



        Is this what you're looking for?

        On the other hand, while sellers are accountable to the quality of customer care they let their customers experience on their services, buyers are responsible in having due diligence to check, interview, and get a feel of the seller's reliability. I am not saying that if a buyer got scammed by a seller, it's the fault of the buyer. No, it's not like that. When you got scammed by a seller, there are two things involved:
        1. what you (as a buyer) could have done
        2. what the seller should have not done

        I am talking about the first one.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by robert key View Post

        @ Thomas,

        I understand and know that already but not everyone has the time
        to wade through numerous testimonials, etc.

        A REVIEW system would allow someone to glance and see that a
        seller is rated a 2 or a 3.

        It's much easier and quicker to see that buyers have rated a seller
        with a gold star system.

        It works for AMAZON and other sites online so there's no reason
        as to why it can't work on the WF too.

        Thanks,

        Robert
        You are aware, aren't you that probably most of the "stars" on Amazon are fake reviews? It would be the same way here. If you don't have time to do due diligence on products, you probably shouldn't be buying them.

        There's already a system in place where customers can leave a review after they purchase and there's a lot of WSOs that have refund policies, so I doubt that anything more is needed.

        People who keep offering this little star suggestion don't seem to be aware that those little stars are completely meaningless. Sellers get their uncles, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, children, friends ... you name it to give them those little stars.
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  • Profile picture of the author andrewkar
    Review system is implemented already. It comes right with the forum itself and it's a WAY BETTER that Amazon system.

    Of course, it's vulnerable to abuse as well, but it's superior to Amazon review system in many ways.

    If someone doesn't have a time to read reviews of a product he wants to own, then that's his problem sin't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    You do know that every thread comes with a rating system already, right? Top right corner with the thread tools, you can rate the thread 1-5 stars. No need to create something new.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

      You do know that every thread comes with a rating system already, right? Top right corner with the thread tools, you can rate the thread 1-5 stars. No need to create something new.
      Correct, but that only rates the thread, not the seller. The OP was recommending a star system that was seller-specific.

      Regarding the OP made by Robert:

      Even so, this topic has been discussed ever since I've been a member here, so Allen has already thought about this and after much thought and feedback has decided that the current system works. It's not perfect (nothing is, Amazon's star rating system continues to get gamed to this day), but there is opportunity to:

      a. Report a WSO by using the "report post button" (that's the red triangle icon with the exclamation point in it).

      b. Leave objective and factual feedback in the WSO thread.

      RoD
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        Correct, but that only rates the thread, not the seller. The OP was recommending a star system that was seller-specific.
        Seller owns the thread. I'm not seeing how the star rating wouldn't apply to them? Sorry, but people should be doing their due diligence before buying from anyone, the WF should not have to hold their hands. Buyers need to be adults, research the person they are buying from (which would make the thread ratings relevant), and make a common sense based decision instead of "He promised me $100 a day, TAKE ALL MY MONEY."
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

          Seller owns the thread. I'm not seeing how the star rating wouldn't apply to them? Sorry, but people should be doing their due diligence before buying from anyone, the WF should not have to hold their hands. Buyers need to be adults, research the person they are buying from (which would make the thread ratings relevant), and make a common sense based decision instead of "He promised me $100 a day, TAKE ALL MY MONEY."
          Right, but that rating doesn't follow the seller, is all I'm saying. Totally agree with the rest of what you wrote.

          RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author andrewkar
    Besides, there are numbers of pages topics already have, and number of views and number of replays... is that not enough...?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Robert,

    Did you leave any feedback in the WSO thread stating all the facts of what transpired? Constructive feedback is allowed, even encouraged, as long as it's objective, there's no name-calling, and no unsubstantiated accusations are made.

    You state that you heard back from the seller after a week that they woud take care of this. How long has it been since then?

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
    I agree with Thomas. You have the ability to leave your honest feedback right in the thread itself. As long as you're not "bashing" the person or taking up an issue with them publicly, then you're good.

    Is it time consuming to read through all of the threads? Sure, but for anyone who is serious about reading reviews and getting the most info on a product they can before making a purchase, they will continue to dig.

    To me, a star rating system doesn't mean much at first glance. When I see products with high ratings in Amazon, I ALWAYS take the time to read the reviews and user feedback. That's where the info that I'm seeking is at, anyway.

    I do know that there is a star rating system built right into each thread. Just click "Rate Thread" and add your rating based on that when you leave your feedback. Simple as that.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    I think that dissatisfied people are very vocal on wso pages, IMO. If something's not working, you hear it loud and clear.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin McNally
    Don't think it could work accurately as the buyer experience is so different depending on the experience and skills of the buyer. For example we have warriors just starting that are learning how to buy a domain name while other warriors are building mega authority sites with all sorts of features etc... So the newbie may love a product and the experienced guy may find nothing new and in theory they are both correct.

    I think it works just fine just now, of course we all get burned from time to time but in general most experiences are positive.
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