Is there any decent writers on the WF?

In the other hand, I found a "seasoned" copywriter that charged far, far more than $5 per article (15 articles), and it didn't worth even half of that price.
Placing a trial order before does not guarantee anything. If the guy is a cheater, he'll send you first a good article and then will deliver BS.
So we must be very careful and ask for plenty of WF references before hiring.

A "nary" is an old fashioned word for "not a single one".

Terra

Thanks, now...what does "deadpan" mean?

Ken: That is why he is looking to hire writers....



Or, if you think about it, you might check the signature files of some of the people who posted in this thread....

Just sayin...

Another fact to consider is how you, the purchaser, will utilize the content once it's delivered to you.

You can find an excellent writer whose work is engaging, focused and without fault, but if all you do is publish it with no real plan to really make it work for you, you've wasted your money. Your ROI will be negligible.

You have my sympathy. Friends are bad that way, wanting to talk and have mutual conversations. I wish I had a solution for you.

Oh, by the way, there is a name for that affliction where you "keep your email client open 24/7". It's called wasting time. Dan Kennedy has something to say about that.

The words "decent" and "client" rarely belong in close proximity.

Now, it may be due to my definition of "decent." When I was taking clients, and my wife decided to pack up my kids and leave, I didn't find it particularly abnormal to say "hey, I'm having a tough time right now, I'll do your work but it might be a little longer what with MY LIFE FALLING DOWN AROUND ME."

When that resulted in me having to move back to Washington from Oregon thanks to my wife harassing the hotel manager where I was staying to the point that they said "yeah, we're not going to let you stay here anymore" - I didn't expect clients to start bitching left and right about everything.

I mean, I was doing PAYMENT ON DELIVERY for a reason. It's not like they had money on the line.

And when I finally got my shit together enough to start delivering client orders, it was kind of crappy when they started responding that this was not acceptable and they were not going to pay me.

And when, you know, NOT GETTING PAID meant I ended up homeless and sleeping in my car and wardriving for unsecured wireless internet... I kind of expected people not to raise hell about how they couldn't ever get hold of me on Skype.

I also expected my plea for paid-in-advance work so I could get off the street and into a damn hotel for the night to result in, you know, PAYPAL PAYMENTS and not eChecks which wouldn't clear for several days. And for the people who ordered that work to, you know, understand that I don't even start on your damn work until it clears.

Demanding a refund before your eCheck clears is kind of a scam, you know; just stop payment on it. And I'm not particularly happy with you while I'm sleeping in my car for another five to seven business days while I wait for your eCheck to clear, either, so expressing your disapproval of my performance in that regard is not going to end well. You're the one who used an eCheck, retard.

And then, what with people's bitching and complaining about how I didn't deliver quality work on the same timetable as they got crap work from Filipinos, the clients stopped showing up. And when they did show up, they wanted discounts based on the stories they'd heard.

"But last year you did this same work for less money." Tough. It's a year later. Prices went up. That happens. Oh, you can't afford me? SHOP ELSEWHERE.

Clients suck. I hate them. Every time you come to me as a client, you have to pay extra for every crappy awful client I've ever had just to convince me that I should take a chance on you not being a total dumbass. Because the ultimate goal is not to have ANY clients.

I don't want to do your crap. I want to do mine. You are not paying me for the value what I am DOING, but for the cost of what I am NOT doing. Because what you're doing is probably stupid, pointless, and not worth my attention.

...

Except for those people who cannot tell a story that people will want to read...

Then there are the folks who will need to hire an editor to fix what they have written...

There have been so many requests lately, here in the forum, asking if an article someone has written is good and sadly, they just aren't.

Don't give false hope to those who just aren't good writers as it will hurt them in the long run.

I personally cannot create a good graphic for the life of me so rather than just taking a bunch of stabs in the dark hoping to produce one as dazzling as a twinkling star that looks as stunning as a multifaceted diamond sparkling on a black velvet background, I outsource so that I can do what I'm skilled at and that creates an income for myself. And let's not even talk about designing a website, Ha!

While it is true that people know their marketing plan best, if they stink at some aspects of marketing or business components, it's best that they convey their marketing plans and strategies to someone else who excels in those arenas they lack in, to do it for them.

How many one man bands do know that top the charts?

Terra

This a million times.

I wish people would understand that horrible content has a high bounce rate. A high bounce rate essentially means Google thinks less of you and your website.

One article worth $20 will be understandable, readable and more than likely at least average content that connects with users.

10 articles for $2 a piece will more than likely be along the lines of this:

"You has make money online opportunitiez? I has show you here make online moneys for fast of now"

Actually, I've been on the hiring side, and I hired one of those $1.00 per 100 words people when I first started out. I'm going to share with everyone the article I received back. I wasn't really mad, I had some good laughs out of it. I just simply moved on and hired someone else.

Anyways, here's the article:

I sincerely wish I was making that up or typed that out. That's exactly word for word what the writer handed me. I learned my lesson very quickly after hiring a few more. Probably should have learned my lesson from the first one, oh well it was a fun learning experience. :rolleyes:

One experience should never be used to judge an entire community.

I have hired over a dozen writers from the Warrior Forum -- one of whom has participated in this thread...

Two people from this forum took my money and never delivered.

All of the others have provided excellent writing in return for the money I paid them, including the writer I hired, who has participated in this thread (Rose Anderson).

For more than a decade, I provided ghost writing services to others, but I don't do that anymore. During my time as a professional ghost writing service provider, I wrote a lot of materials myself, and I hired hundreds of writers to work for me to provide content to my clients.

Yep, there are a lot of junk writers out there -- people who "try out" writing, because it sounds like easy work, and people who try to "fake it until they make it".

There are people out there, who have the potential to be great writers, but have only to date demonstrated good writing skills.

And there are others, who are already exceptional writers, who deserve every penny that their clients pay them.

Wherever you may go, you will find writers who represent the three groups I have described above.

But if you are only finding writers in the first group, then you not are being careful enough about your hiring procedures.

In the beginning, I was burned that way a number of times.

Only after loads of experience, I would require new hires -- who did not have an online portfolio -- to create 1-2 paragraphs on demand, before I gave them a chance to get my money.

Only in being more selective will you find better people to do work on your behalf.

If you want to find the best writer for your job, your hiring criteria should be to find people who:

* Demonstrate good spelling and grammar skills.

* Focus on communicating ideas to the reader, rather than focusing on keywords.

* Understand their purpose in the writing assignments -- article writers should try to inform the reader and not try to sell to the reader, and copy writers should focus on whether their writing achieves specific results.

* Give readers a good reading experience, i.e. solid readability -- If the reader stops reading, before reaching the end of the article, then the writer will have failed. The writer must maintain the attention of the reader from the first word to the last word.

* Demonstrate good storytelling skills -- Most article writers who win and keep an audience are those who understand the basics of good storytelling. Readers prefer reading stories to being given a long list of facts to consume. The best writers will focus on telling a story that communicates an idea to the reader that the writer wants the reader to receive.



Now, it should be noted that in your complaint, you were talking about "writing sales copy". Most article writers should not be expected to write good sales copy.

Sales copy requires a different kind of writer -- a copy writer, because that type of writing is a specialty and requires specialty knowledge in order for the writer to be effective.



As Terra said above, all serious business people make an investment into their businesses. And frequently, it makes more sense to outsource those things you don't do well, so that you can focus your energy on those things that you do do well.



The bottom line is that advising newbies that the DIY-method is their best hope for success, will be for many the nail in their coffins.

The DIY-method of creating content should only be recommended to people who:

* Are too cheap to invest real money into their businesses;

* Or to people who believe wholeheartedly in their ability to do a good job on their own without outside help.


Just because you have had bad luck hiring writers does not mean that everyone will have bad luck hiring writers.

Maybe in your case, you are the best person for the job.

But the reality is that for most people, the best person for the job is a trained professional with proven talents in the job that people need to have done for them.

There is a call for dirty stuff as well you know

At the risk of turning into a pedant......

Shouldn't that be - Yes there ARE decent writers on the WF.

Or am I missing the irony???

KenJ

The really good writers are usually the ones you have problems trying to get their attention to do something for you. Many are very busy with private clients because they not only charge enough for a living wage, their clients pay it to keep them.

Better writers who do this professionally often have their own website and samples as well as other information a client would ask. It saves everyone time when a client can not only view the type of work done, but the personality behind it reflected in the sample selections.