Starting ghost writing service - have paypal - how to manage payments? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

11 years ago

Just start the service first. It isn't as easy to be overbooked unless you only take one or two clients at a time.

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Matt Dog 11 years ago

Weaving Thoughts

You've got a good point. Worrying about being overbooked before I've even got it going won't get the ball rolling, and I can always figure out how to improve things down the road.
- Thanks
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contentwriting360

Banned 11 years ago

Matt,

Do you want your customers to place their order via your Warrior Forum thread or through your WP-based site?

If the former is your choice, you can embed PayPal codes on your page. If you're swamped with orders, you ma remove that code so people won't place an order.

If the latter is your choice, you can use a WordPress plugin that can handle that. Same thing goes. You may remove that code if you're not ready to take in new orders.

Thanks
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Matt Dog

11 years ago

contentwriting360

Ideally I'd like to have people purchase through my site (not the one in my signature right now but another site which will showcase my portfolio, rates, and availability).

(I will use forum code to display an order button within a "Warriors for Hire" ad; and that button will link to the order page on my site).

What you said about taking the link code down makes a lot of sense, I'll start by doing that and see how it goes from there.

Thanks
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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Joseph Robinson

You assume correctly. I am going at this alone.

It probably is a better idea to converse with prospects before doing work for them. I'm just not sure how well I could manage a flood of customers.

If 100 different people each wanted one article that would be a lot of corresponding/managing to do (in addition to the work of writing the content).

That's why I like "automated", but as long as workload floods don't happen right out the gate than I'll have time to adjust.

I was under the impression (having looked at the "Warriors for Hire" section and the number of replies in so few days -- even with testimonials) that posting an ad for writing services on Warrior Forum was basically a guarantee of getting swamped with prospects (if you have good portfolio pieces).

Maybe I was wrong about that. :confused:

Thanks
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Joseph Robinson

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

Joseph Robinson

You assume correctly. I am going at this alone.

It probably is a better idea to converse with prospects before doing work for them. I'm just not sure how well I could manage a flood of customers.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you planning on pricing at? If you are afraid of/don't want to have to deal with a flood of customers to hit your goals, then charge more and work less.

Your ability to do so will be based on your talent as a writer, which I haven't gauged yet, so don't take the above as an endorsement to charge a dollar a word :p. Marketing comes into play as well, can you position yourself well enough as a writer to justify your prices?

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

If 100 different people each wanted one article that would be a lot of corresponding/managing to do (in addition to the work of writing the content).

As an individual, I wouldn't worry too much about that. Shoot, at my highest volume (and I like to think I've done pretty well), I've never had double-digit article amounts on deck. If you get big enough to have 100 separate people with 100 separate articles, hire a writing staff.

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

That's why I like "automated", but as long as workload floods don't happen right out the gate than I'll have time to adjust.

Don't expect them to. Writer's aren't exactly novelties. Depending on the price point you're starting at, you could actually have a rough go starting out.

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

I was under the impression (having looked at the "Warriors for Hire" section and the number of replies in so few days -- even with testimonials) that posting an ad for writing services on Warrior Forum was basically a guarantee of getting swamped with prospects (if you have good portfolio pieces).

Maybe I was wrong about that. :confused:

Unfortunately, you're very wrong. A lot of those who comment never become customers, or are looking for review copies, or whatever. The threads that actually are flooded with customer responses come from low end services that have a team of writers to work for them. They can pump out the quantity you're thinking of.

I recommend you sell on a platform of quality instead (again, assuming you have the ability to do so).

Thanks
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TheArticlePros 11 years ago

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- Joseph Robinson Banned 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JaRyCu
  
  And there should be no apostrophe in "writers" in the form that you used it - it's not possessive case nor is it a contraction.
  
  Even Stephen King had a typo or two in the Dark Tower series, suck it :p.
  
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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson

If you don't mind me asking, what are you planning on pricing at? If you are afraid of/don't want to have to deal with a flood of customers to hit your goals, then charge more and work less.

I am also of the mindset of charging more and working less and I've seen countless examples of people working for free in the real world as well as internet marketing.

I'm still fine tuning my rates but I have no intention of low balling. I'm worth more than $5 per article.

I've been leaning towards $15-$18 per original article to start with and bump it up from there (that's an "as simple as can be" article).

Article rewrites (not rewrites of rejected articles; rewrites of existing articles that people want high quality rewrites for) will cost $10 per article but I can rewrite existing articles fast. (I made a computer program that makes it easy).

I am very good with Spintax, so any articles that people want spun can be spun (but article spinning is an additional charge that will cost even more than writing an original article).

I won't do Spintax for any less than $50.

I will also be offering "video articles", still in the process of figuring out how to do that but it's a very simple thing to do once you have an article you copy-paste it into a video-article making program and than it's done.

That will be less than writing an article (but I could literally copy-paste 30+ per day).

And finally I will be offering "speech to writing" video-article services.

That's easy and fast. It doesn't take long. Finding customers for that may be tricky but it's a fine tuned niche and the time it takes to read an article is about the same amount of time it takes to make a video-article presentation.

Video articles will have to be ordered in a decent quantity to make them worthwhile, but the charges for making a video-article will be less than writing an article (takes much less time to do).

If I have to write an article AND make it into a video-article than it will cost even more.

Thanks

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 11 years ago

I think I'm correct in assuming that you are going it alone with this ghostwriting gig. If so, do you really need an automated payment system? It might work against you in fact, as far as closing sales go. You're asking customers to put up money without communicating with you at all, and with zero knowledge regarding your current availability.

This is only personal experience; but inviting them to converse with you before payment seems to be much more reasonable. Both sides get to handle all of the details, and you get to pre-screen for problem clients (you'll want to eliminate them before they cause any trouble). When everything is settled send over a PayPal invoice (which you can set up templates for on your own for ease and "automation") and go from there.

Trust me, you're not going to have a "flood of owners" at the start like you are expecting. You'll have the time to use the process outlined above.

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travlinguy

11 years ago

Joe already said it. I'll make it a little plainer yet. You're making this harder than it is. Deal with customers one at a time via email, Skype, whatever. When you come to an agreement give them your PayPal email or send them a PayPal invoice. Simple. The series of emails containing your terms serves as your contract. This is plenty until you start getting lots of clients. Good luck.

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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

Joe already said it. I'll make it a little plainer yet. You're making this harder than it is. Deal with customers one at a time via email, Skype, whatever. When you come to an agreement give them your PayPal email or send them a PayPal invoice. Simple. The series of emails containing your terms serves as your contract. This is plenty until you start getting lots of clients. Good luck.

Good advice. Glad it won't be as hard as I was making it out to be. Thanks.

Thanks
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Kay King

11 years ago

It probably is a better idea to converse with prospects before doing work for them. I'm just not sure how well I could manage a flood of customers.

That probably won't be a problem - at least to begin with. You can't run a freelance writing business and not deal one-on-one with your clients.

You manage your time - set your schedules - and accept only the amount of work you know you can complete.

Just get started and you'll learn as you go.

Thanks
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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

That probably won't be a problem - at least to begin with. You can't run a freelance writing business and not deal one-on-one with your clients.

You manage your time - set your schedules - and accept only the amount of work you know you can complete.

Just get started and you'll learn as you go.

Everything you said here makes sense but what I've been learning lately (and it's still sinking in) is that last part you said.

Getting started is the most important thing, learning as you go is faster than not learning at all because of not ever starting.

Thanks

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

I also come from the communication first gang.

Open communication is the most important factor in a freelancer and client relationship.

I won't even begin a piece without discussing many factors. I like to know what the piece is for, the tone in which they'd like it written such as formal, informal, educational, story form, etc.

If they have a website, sometimes I like to see that and get a feel for the site to assure that what I write will go with the flow of it.

When you do these things, it assures that neither you nor your client's time will have been wasted.

Without open communication, you are lessening your chances of success and satisfied, happy customers, not to mention repeat clients.

Terra

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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I also come from the communication first gang.

Open communication is the most important factor in a freelancer and client relationship.

I won't even begin a piece without discussing many factors. I like to know what the piece is for, the tone in which they'd like it written such as formal, informal, educational, story form, etc.

If they have a website, sometimes I like to see that and get a feel for the site to assure that what I write will go with the flow of it.

When you do these things, it assures that neither you nor your client's time will have been wasted.

Without open communication, you are lessening your chances of success and satisfied, happy customers, not to mention repeat clients.

Terra

The communication first gang sure out numbers the the automation gang.

It makes sense on multiple levels, I was just worried from the start about potential chaos in dealing with the few bad apples that won't communicate back in a timely manner, and also insist on the writer doing things perfectly even though they aren't exactly exemplary customers.

There's a wide range of things I can do without hesitation (from writing to programming to driving tractor trailer trucks in New York City).

But I've never run a business before so "customer management" is a bit of an intimidating factor at the moment.

I'm definitely looking to get repeat customers so I will have to give the communication approach a try.

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Troy_Phillips

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

The communication first gang sure out numbers the the automation gang.

.

That is because you lucked up and posted at a time when the true professionals were on here. You have to give yourself credit also. Very few have the good judgment to listen to professionals instead of doing it your own way and regretting it later.

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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips

That is because you lucked up and posted at a time when the true professionals were on here. You have to give yourself credit also. Very few have the good judgment to listen to professionals instead of doing it your own way and regretting it later.

Maybe that's a sign my luck is finally turning around... (I don't usually have good timing).

As far as what you said about listening to professionals instead of going it my own way and regretting it later; the reason I listen now is because for so many years I didn't. So I already have my regrets and I've decided regret sucks and I don't want any more of it EVER!!!

In having learned from my mistakes I learned to value the opinions and advice of people who've already succeeded.

Thanks

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

The communication first gang sure out numbers the the automation gang.

There's a reason: our businesses are still around (although some individuals can make automation work).

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

It makes sense on multiple levels, I was just worried from the start about potential chaos in dealing with the few bad apples that won't communicate back in a timely manner, and also insist on the writer doing things perfectly even though they aren't exactly exemplary customers.

The best thing about being a freelancer? You don't have to deal with them if you don't want to. That's where the whole "be your own boss" thing comes into play.

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

But I've never run a business before so "customer management" is a bit of an intimidating factor at the moment.

Common sense and courtesy usually does the trick. If you have that, you already have a great foundation to work off of.

Thanks
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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson

There's a reason: our businesses are still around (although some individuals can make automation work).

The best thing about being a freelancer? You don't have to deal with them if you don't want to. That's where the whole "be your own boss" thing comes into play.

Common sense and courtesy usually does the trick. If you have that, you already have a great foundation to work off of.

Points taken!

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Rose Anderson

11 years ago

I agree with Joe. I prefer exchanging emails with a client in advance to find out exactly what their needs are and what they're expecting. This way I rarely have to rewrite an article. I find how who their target readers are and what they hope to accomplish with the articles.

Plus, when I'm busy I can say, "I'm booked solid until the middle of October. If you want I can place you on my schedule and start your order at that time." Once their deposit is paid I then have worked booked in advance. But I'm not overwhelmed in the present.

It also builds a much better relationship with your clients.

Rose

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Rose Anderson

Plus, when I'm busy I can say, "I'm booked solid until the middle of October. If you want I can place you on my schedule and start your order at that time." Once their deposit is paid I then have worked booked in advance. But I'm not overwhelmed in the present.

Pay attention to this bit OP, it's a great secret of the trade (that really isn't a secret). With your automated approach, if that traffic can't book right away they're going to leave (and maybe never come back). By starting with personal correspondence though, you can lay a foundation for a relationship. Give them the option of joining a "wait list", and while they're waiting check in every once in a while. You can just say hi, but this is what I tested against "chatty" emails and it worked well: start "working" on their project by collecting the preliminary information you would have at the start if you had space.

This gives them the feeling that the project is moving forward (which helps them to commit to you), and allows you to start getting ahead of the game if you're backlogged (it takes two minutes per email to ask the basic questions, five to ten if you need to ask deeper stuff). Again though, you won't have to worry too much about that at first.

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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson

Pay attention to this bit OP, it's a great secret of the trade (that really isn't a secret). With your automated approach, if that traffic can't book right away they're going to leave (and maybe never come back). By starting with personal correspondence though, you can lay a foundation for a relationship. Give them the option of joining a "wait list", and while they're waiting check in every once in a while. You can just say hi, but this is what I tested against "chatty" emails and it worked well: start "working" on their project by collecting the preliminary information you would have at the start if you had space.

This gives them the feeling that the project is moving forward (which helps them to commit to you), and allows you to start getting ahead of the game if you're backlogged (it takes two minutes per email to ask the basic questions, five to ten if you need to ask deeper stuff). Again though, you won't have to worry too much about that at first.

I hadn't thought of the automatic approach as a potential traffic leak but you do have a point. People want what they want when they want it. Even though it will take time to write the articles themselves; when people visit a website if they don't find what they are looking for they'll leave and possibly never come back which isn't good for business.

Thanks

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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Rose Anderson

I agree with Joe. I prefer exchanging emails with a client in advance to find out exactly what their needs are and what they're expecting. This way I rarely have to rewrite an article. I find how who their target readers are and what they hope to accomplish with the articles.

Plus, when I'm busy I can say, "I'm booked solid until the middle of October. If you want I can place you on my schedule and start your order at that time." Once their deposit is paid I then have worked booked in advance. But I'm not overwhelmed in the present.

It also builds a much better relationship with your clients.

Rose

You brought up a lot of good points here. Booking in advance, the relationship with customers, and figuring out their target audience. All of those things can help make better articles and cutting down on unnecessary rewrites can save a lot of time (which is money).

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TheArticlePros

11 years ago

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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by JaRyCu

In some worlds, automation is really cool. The way that Ford & Nissan build their cars with robots is completely amazing. The way that the NY Times prints millions of copies of their paper every single day - just wow. Watching how Apple's manufacturers can make so many of those damned little mini iPod things blows me away.

Automating a payment so that you don't have to deal with the client directly - the exact opposite of what you should be doing.

If you look at ContentWriting360's WFH ad, you'll see his workflow. I typed mine up an hour or so ago in another thread, which I'll quote here so I don't have to type it up again:

Notice the lack of automation there? If you look at my sales thread, you'll see a ton of happy clients. I'm sure you'll find the same thing on CW's WFH thread as well. We've both been doing this for a long time. Rose, Joe, and the others contributing here have also been doing this even longer...and none of us have ever tried to move past talking to the client.

You need to build a relationship with every single person in order to get repeat business. Truly wealthy people don't shy away from talking to their customers because they know that's where their money comes from.

Here's another thought for you:

I have a website, www.TheArticlePros.com. It has buy buttons for every package size that any client has ever ordered from me.

Guess how many people have used them? 1.

My WFH ad has 3 different ways to email or message me.

Guess how many people have used those? I couldn't give you a number, but I've completed orders for over a thousand articles this summer alone.

Think about that for a bit, then drop your automation plans.

-- j

Thanks for showing me your process. It's simple enough.

The big contrast in the comparison you made between the customers who've bought from you through contacting you vs the one that bought through an order button paints a clear enough picture of why I should actually COMMUNICATE with potential customers.

After reading the responses I've gotten in this thread I've decided to do away with automation (and hire other additional writers if volume gets out of control).

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

Thanks for showing me your process. It's simple enough.

The big contrast in the comparison you made between the customers who've bought from you through contacting you vs the one that bought through an order button paints a clear enough picture of why I should actually COMMUNICATE with potential customers.

After reading the responses I've gotten in this thread I've decided to do away with automation (and hire other additional writers if volume gets out of control).

Holy crap guys, I think we just finished a writing thread without petty arguments or trolling. Who's bringing the cake?

123 NOT IT.

Thanks

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TheArticlePros 11 years ago

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- MissTerraK 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JaRyCu
  
  *shocked face*
  
  I want The Holy Terra-izer to bring the cake. I've heard she has good alcohol to go with it.
  
  -- j
  
  Rum cake?
  
  Did someone mention rum cake?
  
  My grandma's recipe is perfect...when finished, you can practically wring the rum from it by gently squeezing.
  
  Terra
  
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  TheArticlePros 11 years ago
  
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  MissTerraK 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JaRyCu
  
  Mmm....rum. Is it the clear Bacardi rum? That's my favorite. Now I'm going to get NOTHING else done today.
  
  -- j
  
  Yes Jason, it most certainly is!
  
  @ Rose - I had never heard of that before today when my son called me from work and started speaking in his best pirate's impersonation. I thought it was a prank and promptly hung up on him! LOL!
  
  He called back and told me I was a grump in the mornings! Me? Never!
  
  Terra
  
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TheWrightWords

11 years ago

I prefer to hammer out details via phone or email, then send an invoice via PP. It doesn't take long at all to do. I have several clients that have longstanding arrangements for X number of blogs per month.,.so I autobill them once a month via paypal (I charge in advance for the month ahead, so I never worry about chasing anyone for payment). It works for me, but you need to build up the relationship to do this. I would try the personal approach, at least at first, and then see how many unbillable hours you are actually ending up with. HTH

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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TheWrightWords

I prefer to hammer out details via phone or email, then send an invoice via PP. It doesn't take long at all to do. I have several clients that have longstanding arrangements for X number of blogs per month.,.so I autobill them once a month via paypal (I charge in advance for the month ahead, so I never worry about chasing anyone for payment). It works for me, but you need to build up the relationship to do this. I would try the personal approach, at least at first, and then see how many unbillable hours you are actually ending up with. HTH

That's something I hadn't thought of doing but I like that idea.

It sounds more stable than scrambling to get new customers, but of course (like you said); it takes getting to that point first.

I'm planning on getting a new cell phone just for this business. That may be a good way to correlate a back and forth email series between customers and myself. (If the customer and I were both at the computer at the same time the two way email series would move right along).

Thanks

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Rose Anderson

11 years ago

It is "Talk like a pirate day" so rum seems appropriate...with or without the cake

Rose

Thanks
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travlinguy 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Rose Anderson

It is "Talk like a pirate day" so rum seems appropriate...with or without the cake

Rose

I thought is was Walk Like an Egyptian Day. Damned cheap dollar store calendars. They never get the important holidays right. :rolleyes:
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- Rose Anderson 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by travlinguy
  
  I thought is was Walk Like an Egyptian Day. Damned cheap dollar store calendars. They never get the important holidays right. :rolleyes:
  
  That probably explains the odd looks you've been getting all day...
  
  But it does make me think of this song:
  
  "Born in Arizona...moved to Babylonia...King Tut..."
  
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travlinguy

11 years ago

Here's another thing to think about. Say you have your services posted with a buy link. I don't care how great a job you did in describing what you're offering, there will be questions. I don't buy writing services because I'm a writer. But I'd guess in the last three or four years I've purchased more than 50 ecovers and mini sites, and other graphics. All but a few were from people here.

All of them describe what they have and have buy links. Not once have I ever clicked to buy without contacting the designer first. There have been a few people who said they won't talk until they have an order. Bye bye. No way.

I think you actually lose business by having it automated that way. I think that when you're offering writing, graphics and other personalized services the customer needs to get a feel for you before committing. That only comes from contact.

Thanks
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Matt Dog

11 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

Here's another thing to think about. Say you have your services posted with a buy link. I don't care how great a job you did in describing what you're offering, there will be questions. I don't buy writing services because I'm a writer. But I'd guess in the last three or four years I've purchased more than 50 ecovers and mini sites, and other graphics. All but a few were from people here.

All of them describe what they have and have buy links. Not once have I ever clicked to buy without contacting the designer first. There have been a few people who said they won't talk until they have an order. Bye bye. No way.

I think you actually lose business by having it automated that way. I think that when you're offering writing, graphics and other personalized services the customer needs to get a feel for you before committing. That only comes from contact.

I can actually relate to that myself. I ordered an ecover once and the price was high but the designer's porfolio was great. Even with his great portfolio I just HAD to get the details worked out because I didn't want to spend (any amount of money -- I'm cheap) and not have things work out perfectly.

The designer was an effective communicator and he got his money and I got my ecover and wrote a testimonial about his ecover service (not sure if he ever used it but I sent it in).

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Troy_Phillips

11 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

Here's another thing to think about. Say you have your services posted with a buy link. I don't care how great a job you did in describing what you're offering, there will be questions. I don't buy writing services because I'm a writer. But I'd guess in the last three or four years I've purchased more than 50 ecovers and mini sites, and other graphics. All but a few were from people here.

All of them describe what they have and have buy links. Not once have I ever clicked to buy without contacting the designer first. There have been a few people who said they won't talk until they have an order. Bye bye. No way.

I think you actually lose business by having it automated that way. I think that when you're offering writing, graphics and other personalized services the customer needs to get a feel for you before committing. That only comes from contact.

Engaging with the customer is crucial for any service provider.

I am in the process of offering several coaching type services. Actually making the sales page now. Not the first buy now button. I want to have an initial consultation before any money changes hands. Also probably the lowest keyed sales page in recent history.. I don't want people to buy on emotion .. that is when they get into trouble.

Thanks

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Miguelito203

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Dog

I will be launching a ghost writing business on Saturday.

I'm trying to figure out how to set it up so payments will be as automatic as possible. (I have WordPress and PayPal).

If automatic won't work at first I'll just manually look at each receipt and email my customers one at a time when they make a payment but there must be a better way.

What can be done to prevent people from buying articles when I'm swamped with articles and can't accept new work until I finish the current workload?

One approach I had in mind was to use password protected posts and email the "unlock" password to people once I've accepted the payment. I have a plugin that will remove old posts (or send them to a different category) after 30 days.

Is there a way to do this without spending tons of money or dealing with the administrative hassle?

Last but not least: I'd like to be able to sell articles with images in them (an extra charge of course).

An example article on my internet marketing website can be seen at this url: Internet Cash Crops | Plain Sites that Make Tons of Money

F.Y.I. the "commission transparency stuff" at the bottom of that article isn't part of the article, it's a WordPress plugin I've set up which shows the naked version of the hyperlinks used in each article (to build trust).

I can make articles like that on my sites but how can I send a WordPress article to a customer with the images intact?

(That's one of the reasons I thought of sending them a password to a post with their article in it so they can copy-paste with graphics intact).

Any suggestions you can offer me will be much appreciated

Thanks,
Matt Dog

Hey. You might want to check out Ghostwriting Cash by Tiffany Dow.

Joey

Thanks
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Learn How to Snipe in 2015 and Generate $750+ per Month in Record Time (Product Launches) - Great For Back-to-School, Fall & Holiday Seasons!

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Matt Dog 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Miguelito203

Hey. You might want to check out Ghostwriting Cash by Tiffany Dow.

Joey

I will definitely Google it. Thanks.
- Thanks
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Joseph Robinson

Banned 11 years ago

Alright, not a horrible starting rate (again, that is said without seeing your work). On your site, make sure you have these different services organized logically into it's own version of a sales funnel: each type leading into the next. A mistake I made earlier that killed conversions was trying to be a jack of all trades. Even worse, I just mentioned the things I wrote in my sales copy as if they were stand alone things.

Don't do that, it sucks.

Things got better when I limited what I'd do, as I crafted the last WFH ad I ran around here on a product-like platform. Syndicated articles were mentioned first, which led to email autoresponder copy, which led to ebooks and opt-in guides, which led to sales copy. Everything made sense compared with the other pieces, and for a slight discount people could order the entire package.

The flow worked well, and was great practice for my own personal projects (pro tip, set aside time every day and work on creating for yourself what you create for others. The long term profits for your time are much better, but you get to continue bringing in seed money in the meantime).

Thanks

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Starting ghost writing service - have paypal - how to manage payments?

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