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How should i deal with this EX client of mine?

by TotalWebsiteControl
15 replies
Earlier today a monthly client of mine decided that he no longer wanted to use my services because out of the 15 keywords i was working on for him only 6 of them hit page one and the rest page 2 and 3. I had been working on these keywords for 2 months which is $800 worth of work for me. He demanded a refund of the total $800 for the 2 months i worked on his keywords. And if he didn't get a refund he would open a dispute with paypal.

I have never had this happen before. I won't mention his warriorforum username or anything like that.

But my question is, What would you guys do? I tried reasoning with him but hes dead set on getting a refund for both months. I understand that I probably should just refund him and move on.. Would be better for my business in the long run.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
#client #deal #mine
  • Profile picture of the author Robert G Williams
    Hi Henry, what I would do is work out the value you have given the person over the 2 months and subtract that from the $800 and offer them the balance of the money, If the person is resistance to this explain the time and effort that you put in and you costs, this may give some credibility so that they can see the amount of time and effort you put in.
    Did you have a contract? If not in future get them to sign a contract so that they would have to pay you unless you did not deliver.
    If the person is causing too much grief, and you just want to get rid of the client then give them their money back, and move to the next client, and mark it done to experience.
    Best regards
    Robert G Williams
    Help others to succeed
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    • Profile picture of the author GMD
      Banned
      I think before you even ask us what you should do, you should answer some obvious questions:

      What exactly was your written agreement with him/her?

      Did you promise that ALL keywords would rank page one? If yes, did you give a time frame?

      If not, then what's he/she complaining about?

      There's a lot of different ways you can go with this -- depending on what you promised and what was delivered.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        Originally Posted by GMD View Post

        I think before you even ask us what you should do, you should answer some obvious questions:

        What exactly was your written agreement with him/her?

        Did you promise that ALL keywords would rank page one? If yes, did you give a time frame?

        If not, then what's he/she complaining about?

        There's a lot of different ways you can go with this -- depending on what you promised and what was delivered.
        If you have an agreement with this client, and you did not deliver, you should give the money back. If you did your part according to the agreement, then it has been my experience that even if he opens up a dispute at PayPal, there should be no issue. Just tell them or show them your agreement.
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    • Profile picture of the author TotalWebsiteControl
      Originally Posted by Robert G Williams View Post

      Hi Henry, what I would do is work out the value you have given the person over the 2 months and subtract that from the $800 and offer them the balance of the money, If the person is resistance to this explain the time and effort that you put in and you costs, this may give some credibility so that they can see the amount of time and effort you put in.
      Did you have a contract? If not in future get them to sign a contract so that they would have to pay you unless you did not deliver.
      If the person is causing too much grief, and you just want to get rid of the client then give them their money back, and move to the next client, and mark it done to experience.
      Best regards
      Robert G Williams
      Help others to succeed
      Thanks for the advice. There was no written agreement/contract. I didn't promise any page one rankings or a time frame for results. I think i will go ahead and let paypal decide on this one. I will submit all the work i have done and see how the cards play

      Thanks again everyone who has responded
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

        Thanks for the advice. There was no written agreement/contract. I didn't promise any page one rankings or a time frame for results. I think i will go ahead and let paypal decide on this one. I will submit all the work i have done and see how the cards play

        Thanks again everyone who has responded
        Now that I know this, the buyer is still being unreasonable. The buyer is not respecting your time and work that you've already put into it. For the sake of being a good guy, I'd offer him a partial refund, but I wouldn't give him a full refund. Let him complain to Paypal. You provided a service, not a product.

        Chalk this up as a lesson learned. Never, ever do work without something in writing (e-mails suffice in most jurisidctions) or a contract, especially if it's for something in the amounts that you're talking.

        RoD
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

        There was no written agreement/contract.
        Rule number one, ALWAYS use an agreement or contract.

        Rule number two, read rule number one again.

        I seriously cant understand why ANYONE fails to use a contract when doing business. Online or not, you need to stipulate the terms of the work being performed and both agree upon them.

        As for the refund, it should state in your CONTRACT, that your work is non refundable.

        How can you "undo" SEO????
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  • Profile picture of the author dadhere
    Yes, if you have the contract, you're good. If a dispute comes up (and I would let it go that far if you did your part) let PayPal make the decision. Explain your case and work done. They will side on the vendors part if you show them your work and aggreement.
    I've had good luck with them so far

    thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicky Papers
    Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

    I won't mention his warriorforum username or anything like that.
    If your client is a member of this forum he can read this. Just because you're not mentioning his username in this thread doesn't mean that he can't figure out that you're talking about him.

    With the circumstances considered, I don't feel it's in my best interest to respond as opening this discussion publicly is incredibly unprofessional in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by Nicky Papers View Post

      If your client is a member of this forum he can read this. Just because you're not mentioning his username in this thread doesn't mean that he can't figure out that you're talking about him.

      With the circumstances considered, I don't feel it's in my best interest to respond as opening this discussion publicly is incredibly unprofessional in my opinion.
      You're misunderstanding his reasoning for not mentioning the ex-client's username. He isn't mentioning his username because it is against forum rules to do so in any type of dispute, not because he is trying to "hide" this question from the ex-client.

      As for the issue of refund/no refund/partial refund, it all comes down to what the terms of your agreement were. That's it, that's all. Until the OP mentions exactly what the terms were, no one can give any specific advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    When you are dealing with a service, PayPal will not back you up. It doesn't matter if you have a contract. PayPal may ask you for a copy of the contract and any invoices and then will say that both can be forged.

    I once had a payment from a client withdrawn because the payment was supposedly not authorized. I received a message asking me to respond and provide documentation. I did do so and the instant that I hit the submit button my claim was automatically denied. It was not possible for anyone at PayPal to even read my response. I called PayPal and was told that any documentation I submitted could have been forged, plus I was told that they do not support rebuttals for services. The kicker in all of this was that the client denied that they made the claim with PayPal and instead wrote me a check.

    You might want to offer to refund half of the client's payment to settle the matter. When it comes to SEO services, PayPal is likely to refund all of the client's money regardless of what proof you provide.
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    • Profile picture of the author osail
      Originally Posted by TDogger View Post

      When you are dealing with a service, PayPal will not back you up. It doesn't matter if you have a contract. PayPal may ask you for a copy of the contract and any invoices and then will say that both can be forged.

      I once had a payment from a client withdrawn because the payment was supposedly not authorized. I received a message asking me to respond and provide documentation. I did do so and the instant that I hit the submit button my claim was automatically denied. It was not possible for anyone at PayPal to even read my response. I called PayPal and was told that any documentation I submitted could have been forged, plus I was told that they do not support rebuttals for services. The kicker in all of this was that the client denied that they made the claim with PayPal and instead wrote me a check.

      You might want to offer to refund half of the client's payment to settle the matter. When it comes to SEO services, PayPal is likely to refund all of the client's money regardless of what proof you provide.
      Lol your right there when you say paypal is not your friend. I remember seeing an article about a $14,000 or so violin being sold to a person threw paypal. The buyer decides he/she dosnt like the violin or isnt satisfied so they contact paypal. Instead of just retuning the violin and refunding the money. They had the buyer DESTROY the violin and take pictures of it to send to the seller. Which they complied with....
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      • Profile picture of the author Yamamedia
        Originally Posted by osail View Post

        Lol your right there when you say paypal is not your friend. I remember seeing an article about a $14,000 or so violin being sold to a person threw paypal. The buyer decides he/she dosnt like the violin or isnt satisfied so they contact paypal. Instead of just retuning the violin and refunding the money. They had the buyer DESTROY the violin and take pictures of it to send to the seller. Which they complied with....
        That is crazy. Did the seller have any recourse.
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        • Profile picture of the author osail
          Originally Posted by Yamamedia View Post

          That is crazy. Did the seller have any recourse.
          Not sure it didnt really say.

          Found the article.

          I was a little off on the price though. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author FirstSocialApps
    TDogger, I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said.

    https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...UAeBay-outside

    Paypal clearly indicates that for buyer protection the item must be:
    "The item you purchase must be a physical, tangible good that can be shipped"

    They also say this is excluded form buyer protection:
    Items purchased off eBay:
    Items are eligible unless they are excluded below:
    • Real estate, motor vehicles, capital equipment, travel tickets, and events tickets
    • Intangible items
    • Services
    • Items purchased using PayPal Payments Pro or Virtual Terminal
    • You may not file a dispute for a Personal Payment
    See "Services" clearly listed as being excluded from buyer protection?
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    The problem with commenting on disputes like this is we only have one side of the issue.

    I think it depends on what you promised, contract or no contract. If you told him you'd get page one for every keyword, then you haven't fulfilled your end. A couple of things though. If you did make that promise, it was a foolish one. Even so, I do think the client has gotten a lot of value and that he's being unreasonable. Maybe him opening a dispute will get it sorted out.
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